I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that
the results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads
seemed too shallow for wood.
As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either
of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was
dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical
box buried in my plaster wall.
The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an
earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses
for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end
that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you
press that end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice.
It looks like my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest
appear completely untouched.
Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently
reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of
Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but
what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
keep itself upright.
On top of that, the knobs were a few bucks each. I got to thinking that
- for jigs - I might try using machine bolts and tapped threads in
wood. At least for jigs that would generally be set ONCE for a project.
I decided to do a test. I bought some 5/16" x 1.5" hex-head bolts. Even
at the Home Depot "single unit" price they were only 20 cents each. I
could make a lot of jigs for the price of a couple of plastic knobs.
I tried putting threads in Poplar, Oak and Birch Ply. I started out with
the drill size that was listed on the inside lid of the lovely wooden
case. That worked, and I couldn't pull the bolt out of the wood with a
claw hammer, but the crests of the threads looked flat. I assume the
recommendation was for tapping metal.
I reduced the hole size a 64th at a time until the threads looked sharp.
That was at 13/64". I have to say, that bit, and the hole it produced,
really looked too small for that tap, but it worked fine.
I wasn't particularly careful about tapping the holes. I used a drill to
drive the tap, started off slow and progressed to a medium speed. It
might have taken 15 seconds to tap each hole all the way through a 3/4"
thickness.
The bolts fit well, with a small amount of wiggle. I decided to try one
more test, which I only did with the Oak. I threaded the bolt into the
hole, but left 1/4" of room at the bottom. I put the wood right over the
leg of my workbench and hit the head of the bolt repeatedly with a
hammer, hard. The bolt didn't move and the threads seemed undamaged.
I'm wondering if any of you ever find a use for tapped holes. If I were
building a jig that I knew I'd use a lot, and would need repeated
adjustments, I'd probably use the inserts. But this was quick, efficient
and cheap. I think I may give it a try for some jigs I'll need to build
soon.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com
In article <[email protected]>, Greg Guarino
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
> keep itself upright.
You might want to try the method shown in this video...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIhEqoKE8Dc&spfreload=10
Joe
On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 12:55:23 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 4/6/2015 9:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>> I in particular I use these which are relatively inexpensive, and can be
>> easily driven with the power driver listed beside each insert size.
>>
>> http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3304/=wmtsri
>
>It looks like the hex shape carries all the way through the insert,
>leaving threads that are discontinuous inside. Is that correct? Does
>that cause the machine bolt to thread in less smoothly?
The ones I've ised are only broached for the hex about one thread
diamer deep.
On 4/7/2015 11:52 AM, krw wrote:
> On 07 Apr 2015 02:56:27 GMT, Puckdropper
> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> I think using the treads is a better idea. I like the threaded rod
>>> and jam nut idea too (for alignment), but that requires a through
>>> hole.
>>>
>>
>> Why do you need a through hole? Use the threads in the insert as one nut
>> and install another on top of it. I usually make my inserts flush or
>> sunk slightly low, but if you want to really sink the insert you may need
>> to make sure the jam nut is smaller than the insert.
>
> If you want a leader on the rod to help guide it into the piece, the
> hole has to be deeper than the insert (or through). If you don't want
> the leader, the threaded rod has no advantage over the tool. That was
> the point.
>
>> If you need to turn the insert from higher up, use a longer length of
>> threaded rod and a second jam nut assembly. If you can't reach the jam
>> nut on the insert, you may try holding the lower nut on the upper
>> assembly with a wrench and giving it a quick twist in the loosen
>> direction. (A slow one will remove the insert.)
>
> Not higher up. The proposal was that the treaded rod be used to guide
> the insert so it goes in straight.
>
>>> I've put in a couple dozen hanger bolts (wood thread on one side, machine
>> on the other) using jam nuts. They can be used to not only insert the
>> bolts but remove them as well.
>>
>> Puckdropper
Having installed probably close to 100 of these inserts, the correct
size and depth hole to begin with pretty much assures that the insert
will end up in the right direction. The holes are typically much larger
than the rod that will thread into the center of the insert so the rod
extending past the end of the insert, for guiding purposes, will be of
little help. Just use the correct drive tool to begin with and the
matter is handled.
"Greg Guarino" wrote:
>I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was
>tapping some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He
>claimed that the results were pretty strong, which surprised me.
>Machine threads seemed too shallow for wood.
>
> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy
> either of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set
> when I was dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever
> was) electrical box buried in my plaster wall.
>
> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of
> an earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with
> recesses for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole
> at one end that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess.
> That's to allow you press that end of the tap down in order to tilt
> the other end up. Nice. It looks like my Dad might have used one
> size of tap: 3/8". The rest appear completely untouched.
>
> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently
> reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of
> Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine,
> but what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
>
> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little
> grooves repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into
> the wood to keep itself upright.
>
> On top of that, the knobs were a few bucks each. I got to thinking
> that - for jigs - I might try using machine bolts and tapped threads
> in wood. At least for jigs that would generally be set ONCE for a
> project.
>
> I decided to do a test. I bought some 5/16" x 1.5" hex-head bolts.
> Even at the Home Depot "single unit" price they were only 20 cents
> each. I could make a lot of jigs for the price of a couple of
> plastic knobs.
>
> I tried putting threads in Poplar, Oak and Birch Ply. I started out
> with the drill size that was listed on the inside lid of the lovely
> wooden case. That worked, and I couldn't pull the bolt out of the
> wood with a claw hammer, but the crests of the threads looked flat.
> I assume the recommendation was for tapping metal.
>
> I reduced the hole size a 64th at a time until the threads looked
> sharp. That was at 13/64". I have to say, that bit, and the hole it
> produced, really looked too small for that tap, but it worked fine.
>
> I wasn't particularly careful about tapping the holes. I used a
> drill to drive the tap, started off slow and progressed to a medium
> speed. It might have taken 15 seconds to tap each hole all the way
> through a 3/4" thickness.
>
> The bolts fit well, with a small amount of wiggle. I decided to try
> one more test, which I only did with the Oak. I threaded the bolt
> into the hole, but left 1/4" of room at the bottom. I put the wood
> right over the leg of my workbench and hit the head of the bolt
> repeatedly with a hammer, hard. The bolt didn't move and the threads
> seemed undamaged.
>
> I'm wondering if any of you ever find a use for tapped holes. If I
> were building a jig that I knew I'd use a lot, and would need
> repeated adjustments, I'd probably use the inserts. But this was
> quick, efficient and cheap. I think I may give it a try for some
> jigs I'll need to build soon.
------------------------------------------------------
I have built several jigs using 1/4"-20, 5 point star knobs, 1/4" flat
washers, 1/4"-20 hex heads bolts of required length for the
individual jig.
A 1/4"-20 hex head is 7/16" across the flats, 9/16" across the points,
as well as a flat washer that is also about 9/16".
You drill a 5/8" hole with a forstner bit, 1/2" deep, followed by a
9/32"
dia hole of the req'd length to allow the star knob to be engaged.
Stick a bolt with a flat washer into the 5/8" hole and temporially
snug
up hand tight on the opposite end with another flat washer and a
1/4"-20 nut.
Mix up some epoxy thickened with micro-balloons and pour into 5/8"
hole covering washer and hex head of bolt.
Wait a couple of days, remove hex hut with washer and you are
good to go.
Have fun.
Lew
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Yeah, this is the only way to insert the kind that have a
> "screwdriver slot". Using a longish rod (or bolt) also
> makes it easier to put them in straight.
>
> There is a better kind of insert that has a hex recess for
> an allen wrench for installing it. Those are hard to find,
> but 1000% easier to use.
>
> John
>
FWIW, the ones Lee Valley sells have the hex recess. Might be worth
ordering a hundred next time they have free shipping.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> I think using the treads is a better idea. I like the threaded rod
> and jam nut idea too (for alignment), but that requires a through
> hole.
>
Why do you need a through hole? Use the threads in the insert as one nut
and install another on top of it. I usually make my inserts flush or
sunk slightly low, but if you want to really sink the insert you may need
to make sure the jam nut is smaller than the insert.
If you need to turn the insert from higher up, use a longer length of
threaded rod and a second jam nut assembly. If you can't reach the jam
nut on the insert, you may try holding the lower nut on the upper
assembly with a wrench and giving it a quick twist in the loosen
direction. (A slow one will remove the insert.)
I've put in a couple dozen hanger bolts (wood thread on one side, machine
on the other) using jam nuts. They can be used to not only insert the
bolts but remove them as well.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 7:22:18 PM UTC-7, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
> some holes in wood...
> I tried putting threads in Poplar, Oak and Birch Ply ... it worked fine.
It's unusual to use machine threads in wood, because (1) wood moves, and
(2) a little corrosion, sap, wood movement, and age will lock the screw in just like glue.
Looser thread fits are used, I believe, when wood is threaded, than for metal.
Conventionally, tee nuts, barrel nuts, and other metal threaded inserts are
employed, with oversize clearance holes in the wood, and it's always assumed
that takeapart later will be easy.
Field-expedient tee nut substitute: a hexagonal mortise and a hex nut.
Experiment away, though: that's the best way to find new things out.
On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 10:22:18 PM UTC-4, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping=
=20
> some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that=20
> the results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads=20
> seemed too shallow for wood.
>=20
> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either=20
> of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was=20
> dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical=
=20
> box buried in my plaster wall.
>=20
> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an=20
> earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses=
=20
> for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end=20
> that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you=
=20
> press that end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice.=
=20
> It looks like my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest=20
> appear completely untouched.
>=20
> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently=20
> reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of=20
> Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but=20
> what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
>=20
> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest=20
> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves=
=20
> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to=20
> keep itself upright.
>=20
> On top of that, the knobs were a few bucks each. I got to thinking that=
=20
> - for jigs - I might try using machine bolts and tapped threads in=20
> wood. At least for jigs that would generally be set ONCE for a project.
>=20
> I decided to do a test. I bought some 5/16" x 1.5" hex-head bolts. Even=
=20
> at the Home Depot "single unit" price they were only 20 cents each. I=20
> could make a lot of jigs for the price of a couple of plastic knobs.
>=20
> I tried putting threads in Poplar, Oak and Birch Ply. I started out with=
=20
> the drill size that was listed on the inside lid of the lovely wooden=20
> case. That worked, and I couldn't pull the bolt out of the wood with a=20
> claw hammer, but the crests of the threads looked flat. I assume the=20
> recommendation was for tapping metal.
>=20
> I reduced the hole size a 64th at a time until the threads looked sharp.=
=20
> That was at 13/64". I have to say, that bit, and the hole it produced,=20
> really looked too small for that tap, but it worked fine.
>=20
> I wasn't particularly careful about tapping the holes. I used a drill to=
=20
> drive the tap, started off slow and progressed to a medium speed. It=20
> might have taken 15 seconds to tap each hole all the way through a 3/4"=
=20
> thickness.
>=20
> The bolts fit well, with a small amount of wiggle. I decided to try one=
=20
> more test, which I only did with the Oak. I threaded the bolt into the=20
> hole, but left 1/4" of room at the bottom. I put the wood right over the=
=20
> leg of my workbench and hit the head of the bolt repeatedly with a=20
> hammer, hard. The bolt didn't move and the threads seemed undamaged.
>=20
> I'm wondering if any of you ever find a use for tapped holes. If I were=
=20
> building a jig that I knew I'd use a lot, and would need repeated=20
> adjustments, I'd probably use the inserts. But this was quick, efficient=
=20
> and cheap. I think I may give it a try for some jigs I'll need to build=
=20
> soon.
>=20
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
I can't speak to tapping wood, but I can offer another technique for using =
bolts in wood with no fear of ever stripping the threads in the wood.
Assuming you have access to the back/underside of the wood, use a spade or =
forstner bit to make a recess slightly larger than a nut that will fit onto=
your bolt or threaded rod. Make the recess just a little bit deeper than t=
he nut, leaving as much wood between the nut side and the bolt side as poss=
ible.=20
Next, drill through the wood for your bolt. Coat the threads of the bolt wi=
th Vaseline, insert it through the wood and into the nut. Be sure to keep a=
ll Vaseline off of the outside of the nut.
Now fill the nut recess with epoxy, securing the nut into the wood. The bol=
t will keep the epoxy out of the nut and the Vaseline will prevent the epox=
y from adhering to the threads of the bolt so you'll be able to unscrew it =
after the epoxy cures.=20
We used to use this technique so that we could securely attach axle mounts =
and weight plates to the floorboards of Soap Box Derby cars. Instead of usi=
ng real nuts, I made my own nuts out of 1" lengths of 3/4" steel rod. With =
30+ "nuts" made from steel rod, I was able to not only secure the parts tha=
t needed to be secured, but I was able to get extra weight down low where I=
wanted it. I bolted and unbolted objects (with torques of over 120 in-lbs)=
hundreds of times without a single issue.
You should scuff up the nuts so that the epoxy has something to key into fo=
r added strength.
On 4/6/2015 8:11 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 4/5/2015 10:44 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>> That slot is to cut threads into the wood. I just take a screw and put a
>> nut on it, lock it down and drive it. Never use the brass slot to
>> drive it.
>>>
>
> Yeah, I think the slot is for driving. If you needed to remove the
> insert it would be next to impossible to remove with out the slot being
> on the outer side when inserted.
Actually,,,,
http://www.mcmaster.com/#90016a007/=wmtvbm
On 4/4/2015 9:22 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
> some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that
> the results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads
> seemed too shallow for wood.
>
> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either
> of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was
> dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical
> box buried in my plaster wall.
>
> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an
> earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses
> for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end
> that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you
> press that end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice.
> It looks like my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest
> appear completely untouched.
>
> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently
> reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of
> Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but
> what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
>
> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
> keep itself upright.
>
> On top of that, the knobs were a few bucks each. I got to thinking that
> - for jigs - I might try using machine bolts and tapped threads in
> wood. At least for jigs that would generally be set ONCE for a project.
>
> I decided to do a test. I bought some 5/16" x 1.5" hex-head bolts. Even
> at the Home Depot "single unit" price they were only 20 cents each. I
> could make a lot of jigs for the price of a couple of plastic knobs.
>
> I tried putting threads in Poplar, Oak and Birch Ply. I started out with
> the drill size that was listed on the inside lid of the lovely wooden
> case. That worked, and I couldn't pull the bolt out of the wood with a
> claw hammer, but the crests of the threads looked flat. I assume the
> recommendation was for tapping metal.
>
> I reduced the hole size a 64th at a time until the threads looked sharp.
> That was at 13/64". I have to say, that bit, and the hole it produced,
> really looked too small for that tap, but it worked fine.
>
> I wasn't particularly careful about tapping the holes. I used a drill to
> drive the tap, started off slow and progressed to a medium speed. It
> might have taken 15 seconds to tap each hole all the way through a 3/4"
> thickness.
>
> The bolts fit well, with a small amount of wiggle. I decided to try one
> more test, which I only did with the Oak. I threaded the bolt into the
> hole, but left 1/4" of room at the bottom. I put the wood right over the
> leg of my workbench and hit the head of the bolt repeatedly with a
> hammer, hard. The bolt didn't move and the threads seemed undamaged.
>
> I'm wondering if any of you ever find a use for tapped holes. If I were
> building a jig that I knew I'd use a lot, and would need repeated
> adjustments, I'd probably use the inserts. But this was quick, efficient
> and cheap. I think I may give it a try for some jigs I'll need to build
> soon.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
I use inserts and bolts all the time to attach upper cabinets to lower
cabinets.
I in particular I use these which are relatively inexpensive, and can be
easily driven with the power driver listed beside each insert size.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3304/=wmtsri
On 4/8/2015 10:52 AM, Leon wrote:
This might help.
> FWIW, no pictures here but this vendor lists the proper/appropriate
> power drive for the particular insert you are using.
> There are 6 different drivers listed for the slotted brass inserts that
> they offer.
>
> While the drivers are a bit pricey but worth it, the insert pricing is
> pretty reasonable, given quantity purchased.
>
>
http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3304/=wnwp6f
On 4/8/2015 10:45 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 4/7/2015 4:24 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Having installed probably close to 100 of these inserts, the correct
>>> size and depth hole to begin with pretty much assures that the insert
>>> will end up in the right direction.
>>
>> I'll respectfully disagree with this. The slotted kind of
>> insert in particular have very little lead before the start
>> of the screw, and it's quite easy to start them crooked.
>> Depending on how off from straight you are, it's possible
>> for them to cut threads and seat off line (which will then
>> make the machine screw you're trying to screw into it bind).
>>
>> The hex kind usually have a little more lead before the
>> start of the thread, and tend to start straight without
>> needing quite as much care, altho there's still a level
>> of skill to it.
>>
>> John
>>
> If you use the right driver tool and drill, with the slotted insert, it
> is much easier. The trick is to not use a screw driver and instead use
> the drill mounted driver. The driver mounted to the drill gives you a
> lot of leverage for starting it straight. Here is what you want.
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=70791&cat=3,41306
>
> EZLOK makes many different drill driver bits for specific sizes.
>
FWIW, no pictures here but this vendor lists the proper/appropriate
power drive for the particular insert you are using.
There are 6 different drivers listed for the slotted brass inserts that
they offer.
While the drivers are a bit pricey but worth it, the insert pricing is
pretty reasonable, given quantity purchased.
On 4/4/2015 10:22 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
> some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that
> the results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads
> seemed too shallow for wood.
>
> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either
> of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was
> dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical
> box buried in my plaster wall.
>
> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an
> earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses
> for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end
> that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you
> press that end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice.
> It looks like my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest
> appear completely untouched.
>
> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently
> reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of
> Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but
> what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
>
> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
> keep itself upright.
That slot is to cut threads into the wood. I just take a screw and put a
nut on it, lock it down and drive it. Never use the brass slot to drive it.
>
> On top of that, the knobs were a few bucks each. I got to thinking that
> - for jigs - I might try using machine bolts and tapped threads in
> wood. At least for jigs that would generally be set ONCE for a project.
>
> I decided to do a test. I bought some 5/16" x 1.5" hex-head bolts. Even
> at the Home Depot "single unit" price they were only 20 cents each. I
> could make a lot of jigs for the price of a couple of plastic knobs.
>
> I tried putting threads in Poplar, Oak and Birch Ply. I started out with
> the drill size that was listed on the inside lid of the lovely wooden
> case. That worked, and I couldn't pull the bolt out of the wood with a
> claw hammer, but the crests of the threads looked flat. I assume the
> recommendation was for tapping metal.
>
> I reduced the hole size a 64th at a time until the threads looked sharp.
> That was at 13/64". I have to say, that bit, and the hole it produced,
> really looked too small for that tap, but it worked fine.
>
> I wasn't particularly careful about tapping the holes. I used a drill to
> drive the tap, started off slow and progressed to a medium speed. It
> might have taken 15 seconds to tap each hole all the way through a 3/4"
> thickness.
>
> The bolts fit well, with a small amount of wiggle. I decided to try one
> more test, which I only did with the Oak. I threaded the bolt into the
> hole, but left 1/4" of room at the bottom. I put the wood right over the
> leg of my workbench and hit the head of the bolt repeatedly with a
> hammer, hard. The bolt didn't move and the threads seemed undamaged.
>
> I'm wondering if any of you ever find a use for tapped holes. If I were
> building a jig that I knew I'd use a lot, and would need repeated
> adjustments, I'd probably use the inserts. But this was quick, efficient
> and cheap. I think I may give it a try for some jigs I'll need to build
> soon.
>
I do this a lot. I recommend some butchers/johnsons wax on the tap. Just
dip it in and it will lube the tap. Yes it helps.
Maple taps real nice. But most everything is tapable. Open pore is less
desireable as they are rougher.
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
--
Jeff
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
>> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little
>> grooves repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into
>> the wood to keep itself upright.
>
> Don't use a screw diver, use a piece of threaded rod (or a bolt) with
> two nuts so you can jam them against the insert and use them with a
> wrench to turn in the insert.
Yeah, this is the only way to insert the kind that have a
"screwdriver slot". Using a longish rod (or bolt) also
makes it easier to put them in straight.
There is a better kind of insert that has a hex recess for
an allen wrench for installing it. Those are hard to find,
but 1000% easier to use.
John
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I'm wondering if any of you ever find a use for tapped
>> holes.
>
> Yes. I've used various, from 8-32 to 1/2-13.
>
> Cross grain, they work well in hardwood, never tried in
> soft wood. They can be improved by tapping, putting
> cyanoacrylate glue in the hole and re-tapping when it is
> dry.
>
> With the grain, they work less well because the threads are
> cutting cross grain and are therefore weak and break
> easily. The glue really helps here, same with threads on
> dowels.
>
I'll second this. We used thin CA to reinforce the holes in
balsa and plywood when I used to fly RC airplanes. The hole were
amazingly durable. The key is to use the thin stuff so it soaks
into the wood.
[email protected] wrote in news:cn33iap67hel6vj4h5pdkqikod93q43r0l@
4ax.com:
> On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:55:18 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>There is a better kind of insert that has a hex recess for
>>an allen wrench for installing it. Those are hard to find,
>>but 1000% easier to use.
>>
> It's been years since I've seen the "screw-driver slot" type offered
> for sale around here. Virtually all in-hex or "allen" drive.
Ah, but you're in Canada, right, where they have Robertson
screws and all manner of other high-quality hardware.
The slotted kind are what's carried at Home Depot, Lowes,
and such like places.
John
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I've made wooden bolts and wooden screws of 3/4" and 1" diameter for
> homemade vises and I've never managed to break the threads no matter
> how tight I crank them. I have popped and/or split the 3" diameter
> end holding the handle. but the threads were still good.
This is very dependent on how long the hole is. The force
on the thread is taken over the whole linear length of the
thread that's engaged - which when you do the math is
probably quite a bit more than the length of your handle.
John
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Having installed probably close to 100 of these inserts, the correct
> size and depth hole to begin with pretty much assures that the insert
> will end up in the right direction.
I'll respectfully disagree with this. The slotted kind of
insert in particular have very little lead before the start
of the screw, and it's quite easy to start them crooked.
Depending on how off from straight you are, it's possible
for them to cut threads and seat off line (which will then
make the machine screw you're trying to screw into it bind).
The hex kind usually have a little more lead before the
start of the thread, and tend to start straight without
needing quite as much care, altho there's still a level
of skill to it.
John
On 4/5/2015 10:44 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 4/4/2015 10:22 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
>> some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that
>> the results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads
>> seemed too shallow for wood.
>>
>> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either
>> of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was
>> dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical
>> box buried in my plaster wall.
>>
>> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an
>> earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses
>> for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end
>> that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you
>> press that end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice.
>> It looks like my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest
>> appear completely untouched.
>>
>> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently
>> reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of
>> Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but
>> what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
>>
>> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
>> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
>> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
>> keep itself upright.
> That slot is to cut threads into the wood. I just take a screw and put a
> nut on it, lock it down and drive it. Never use the brass slot to drive it.
>>
Yeah, I think the slot is for driving. If you needed to remove the
insert it would be next to impossible to remove with out the slot being
on the outer side when inserted.
On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:55:18 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> "Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
>>> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little
>>> grooves repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into
>>> the wood to keep itself upright.
>>
>> Don't use a screw diver, use a piece of threaded rod (or a bolt) with
>> two nuts so you can jam them against the insert and use them with a
>> wrench to turn in the insert.
>
>Yeah, this is the only way to insert the kind that have a
>"screwdriver slot". Using a longish rod (or bolt) also
>makes it easier to put them in straight.
>
>There is a better kind of insert that has a hex recess for
>an allen wrench for installing it. Those are hard to find,
>but 1000% easier to use.
>
>John
It's been years since I've seen the "screw-driver slot" type offered
for sale around here. Virtually all in-hex or "allen" drive.
On 07 Apr 2015 02:56:27 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> I think using the treads is a better idea. I like the threaded rod
>> and jam nut idea too (for alignment), but that requires a through
>> hole.
>>
>
>Why do you need a through hole? Use the threads in the insert as one nut
>and install another on top of it. I usually make my inserts flush or
>sunk slightly low, but if you want to really sink the insert you may need
>to make sure the jam nut is smaller than the insert.
If you want a leader on the rod to help guide it into the piece, the
hole has to be deeper than the insert (or through). If you don't want
the leader, the threaded rod has no advantage over the tool. That was
the point.
>If you need to turn the insert from higher up, use a longer length of
>threaded rod and a second jam nut assembly. If you can't reach the jam
>nut on the insert, you may try holding the lower nut on the upper
>assembly with a wrench and giving it a quick twist in the loosen
>direction. (A slow one will remove the insert.)
Not higher up. The proposal was that the treaded rod be used to guide
the insert so it goes in straight.
>>I've put in a couple dozen hanger bolts (wood thread on one side, machine
>on the other) using jam nuts. They can be used to not only insert the
>bolts but remove them as well.
>
>Puckdropper
On 4/5/2015 1:15 PM, whit3rd wrote:
> On Saturday, April 4, 2015 at 7:22:18 PM UTC-7, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
>> some holes in wood...
>> I tried putting threads in Poplar, Oak and Birch Ply ... it worked fine.
>
> It's unusual to use machine threads in wood, because (1) wood moves, and
> (2) a little corrosion, sap, wood movement, and age will lock the screw in just like glue.
> Looser thread fits are used, I believe, when wood is threaded, than for metal.
> Conventionally, tee nuts, barrel nuts, and other metal threaded inserts are
> employed, with oversize clearance holes in the wood, and it's always assumed
> that takeapart later will be easy.
>
> Field-expedient tee nut substitute: a hexagonal mortise and a hex nut.
>
> Experiment away, though: that's the best way to find new things out.
>
Not really. I have quite a few that work fine.
I have used both steel and nylon screws, never had either rip out.
Know which wood to use.
--
Jeff
On Mon, 06 Apr 2015 10:49:00 -0700, Peter Bennett
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 14:16:13 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 11:44:44 -0400, woodchucker <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On 4/4/2015 10:22 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>>> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
>>>> some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that
>>>> the results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads
>>>> seemed too shallow for wood.
>>>>
>>>> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either
>>>> of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was
>>>> dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical
>>>> box buried in my plaster wall.
>>>>
>>>> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an
>>>> earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses
>>>> for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end
>>>> that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you
>>>> press that end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice.
>>>> It looks like my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest
>>>> appear completely untouched.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently
>>>> reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of
>>>> Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but
>>>> what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
>>>> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
>>>> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
>>>> keep itself upright.
>>>That slot is to cut threads into the wood. I just take a screw and put a
>>>nut on it, lock it down and drive it. Never use the brass slot to drive it.
>>
>>The slot is on the back end of the insert. How does it cut threads? I
>>agree that using a flat-blade screwdriver isn't the best way to insert
>>inserts. There are tools used to install these things, though I like
>>the threaded rod idea (alignment).
>>
>>http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/12K55/T-Wrench-for-14-20-Inserts.aspx
>>>>
>
>Lee Valley carries tools to insert the slotted inserts, using the
>slots:
>http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=70791&cat=3,41306
>
>They only have the inserts and drivers for 1/4-20 and 5/16-18.
I think using the treads is a better idea. I like the threaded rod
and jam nut idea too (for alignment), but that requires a through
hole.
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest slot
> screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
> keep itself upright.
Don't use a screw diver, use a piece of threaded rod (or a bolt) with two
nuts so you can jam them against the insert and use them with a wrench to
turn in the insert.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"Greg Guarino" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm wondering if any of you ever find a use for tapped holes.
Yes. I've used various, from 8-32 to 1/2-13.
Cross grain, they work well in hardwood, never tried in soft wood. They can
be improved by tapping, putting cyanoacrylate glue in the hole and
re-tapping when it is dry.
With the grain, they work less well because the threads are cutting cross
grain and are therefore weak and break easily. The glue really helps here,
same with threads on dowels.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Greg Guarino wrote:
> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was
> tapping some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He
> claimed that the results were pretty strong, which surprised me.
> Machine threads seemed too shallow for wood.
>
<Snip>
>
> The bolts fit well, with a small amount of wiggle. I decided to try
> one more test, which I only did with the Oak. I threaded the bolt
> into the hole, but left 1/4" of room at the bottom. I put the wood
> right over the leg of my workbench and hit the head of the bolt
> repeatedly with a hammer, hard. The bolt didn't move and the threads
> seemed undamaged.
I'd probably use threaded inserts instead of threading the wood itself, but
I still found your test results to be interesting, and frankly - they
surprised me. Thanks for sharing that.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 4/4/2015 10:22 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
> some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that the
> results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads seemed too
> shallow for wood.
>
> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either of
> them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was dealing
> with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical box buried
> in my plaster wall.
>
> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an
> earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses for
> each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end that's a
> little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you press that
> end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice. It looks like
> my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest appear completely
> untouched.
>
> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently reconfigured
> my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of Rockler star knobs and
> some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but what a pain it was to
> insert those ... inserts.
>
> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest slot
> screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to keep
> itself upright.
>
> On top of that, the knobs were a few bucks each. I got to thinking that -
> for jigs - I might try using machine bolts and tapped threads in wood. At
> least for jigs that would generally be set ONCE for a project.
>
> I decided to do a test. I bought some 5/16" x 1.5" hex-head bolts. Even at
> the Home Depot "single unit" price they were only 20 cents each. I could
> make a lot of jigs for the price of a couple of plastic knobs.
>
> I tried putting threads in Poplar, Oak and Birch Ply. I started out with
> the drill size that was listed on the inside lid of the lovely wooden case.
> That worked, and I couldn't pull the bolt out of the wood with a claw
> hammer, but the crests of the threads looked flat. I assume the
> recommendation was for tapping metal.
>
> I reduced the hole size a 64th at a time until the threads looked sharp.
> That was at 13/64". I have to say, that bit, and the hole it produced,
> really looked too small for that tap, but it worked fine.
>
> I wasn't particularly careful about tapping the holes. I used a drill to
> drive the tap, started off slow and progressed to a medium speed. It might
> have taken 15 seconds to tap each hole all the way through a 3/4" thickness.
>
> The bolts fit well, with a small amount of wiggle. I decided to try one
> more test, which I only did with the Oak. I threaded the bolt into the
> hole, but left 1/4" of room at the bottom. I put the wood right over the
> leg of my workbench and hit the head of the bolt repeatedly with a hammer,
> hard. The bolt didn't move and the threads seemed undamaged.
>
> I'm wondering if any of you ever find a use for tapped holes. If I were
> building a jig that I knew I'd use a lot, and would need repeated
> adjustments, I'd probably use the inserts. But this was quick, efficient
> and cheap. I think I may give it a try for some jigs I'll need to build soon.
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> http://www.avast.com
>
I have done it in turned exotics but not for any of the relatively weak
woods you quote. In various rosewoods and desert ironwood it is possible to
tap very clean strong holes and the matching threads in ~1/4" sizes to
fasten ornamental parts together. This was a very common practice in the
'olden days' when tiny parts were made of ivory and had to be fastened into
wood in such a way that they could be removed or repaired. I've not had any
ivory to try but it does work fine in solid bone parts.
On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 14:16:13 -0400, krw wrote:
>>On 4/4/2015 10:22 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was
>>> tapping some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He
>>> claimed that the results were pretty strong, which surprised me.
>>> Machine threads seemed too shallow for wood.
I'm chiming in a bit late on this thread, but I was just re-reading a FWW
article (#126) on exactly this subject. The author found that the
threads were a lot stronger than he thought they would be. A letter in
the following issue pointed out the strength increased with the diameter
of the bolt. So one could get approximately the same strength as a 1/4"
bolt in a threaded insert by using a bolt with the same diameter as the
insert.
I've made wooden bolts and wooden screws of 3/4" and 1" diameter for
homemade vises and I've never managed to break the threads no matter how
tight I crank them. I have popped and/or split the 3" diameter end
holding the handle. but the threads were still good.
John McCoy wrote:
> [email protected] wrote in news:cn33iap67hel6vj4h5pdkqikod93q43r0l@
> 4ax.com:
>
>> On Sun, 5 Apr 2015 13:55:18 +0000 (UTC), John McCoy
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> There is a better kind of insert that has a hex recess for
>>> an allen wrench for installing it. Those are hard to find,
>>> but 1000% easier to use.
>>>
>> It's been years since I've seen the "screw-driver slot" type offered
>> for sale around here. Virtually all in-hex or "allen" drive.
>
> Ah, but you're in Canada, right, where they have Robertson
> screws and all manner of other high-quality hardware.
>
> The slotted kind are what's carried at Home Depot, Lowes,
> and such like places.
>
Yeah - up there they only get what Canadian Tire sells, and those are all
like a lug nut - 21mm and chrome. But boy - do they hold!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 4/6/2015 9:15 AM, Leon wrote:
> I in particular I use these which are relatively inexpensive, and can be
> easily driven with the power driver listed beside each insert size.
>
> http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3304/=wmtsri
It looks like the hex shape carries all the way through the insert,
leaving threads that are discontinuous inside. Is that correct? Does
that cause the machine bolt to thread in less smoothly?
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> If you want a leader on the rod to help guide it into the piece, the
> hole has to be deeper than the insert (or through). If you don't want
> the leader, the threaded rod has no advantage over the tool. That was
> the point.
I originally mentioned a threaded rod (or bolt) to Greg as a better way of
inserting them rather than using a screwdriver, not as a guide. If one
needs mechanical help in inserting them straight, chuck the rod in a drill
press. Cautionary note: turn the chuck by hand, not power :)
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 4/6/2015 11:55 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 4/6/2015 9:15 AM, Leon wrote:
>> I in particular I use these which are relatively inexpensive, and can be
>> easily driven with the power driver listed beside each insert size.
>>
>> http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/121/3304/=wmtsri
>
> It looks like the hex shape carries all the way through the insert,
> leaving threads that are discontinuous inside. Is that correct? Does
> that cause the machine bolt to thread in less smoothly?
No, the hex is only about 3/16" deep. At leas with the flange style that
I use. The machine bolts actually start threading more easily when
aligning pieces together as the hex beginning section is slightly larger
than the bolt.
The power driver goes in your drill and fits inside the hex section.
The poser driver is pretty HD. Works much better than expected.
Click on the link to see the driver and the inside of the insert.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lcb11211/
Simply predrill the appropriate size hole and then use the power driver
to screw the in insert.
Be sure do order the appropriate driver and while pricey it is easier
drive inserts in with a drill rather than power it in with your wrist.
On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 14:16:13 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 11:44:44 -0400, woodchucker <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>On 4/4/2015 10:22 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
>>> some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that
>>> the results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads
>>> seemed too shallow for wood.
>>>
>>> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either
>>> of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was
>>> dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical
>>> box buried in my plaster wall.
>>>
>>> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an
>>> earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses
>>> for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end
>>> that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you
>>> press that end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice.
>>> It looks like my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest
>>> appear completely untouched.
>>>
>>> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently
>>> reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of
>>> Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but
>>> what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
>>>
>>> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
>>> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
>>> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
>>> keep itself upright.
>>That slot is to cut threads into the wood. I just take a screw and put a
>>nut on it, lock it down and drive it. Never use the brass slot to drive it.
>
>The slot is on the back end of the insert. How does it cut threads? I
>agree that using a flat-blade screwdriver isn't the best way to insert
>inserts. There are tools used to install these things, though I like
>the threaded rod idea (alignment).
>
>http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/12K55/T-Wrench-for-14-20-Inserts.aspx
>>>
Lee Valley carries tools to insert the slotted inserts, using the
slots:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=70791&cat=3,41306
They only have the inserts and drivers for 1/4-20 and 5/16-18.
--
Peter Bennett, VE7CEI Vancouver BC
peterbb (at) telus.net
Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vpsboat.com
On 4/7/2015 4:24 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Having installed probably close to 100 of these inserts, the correct
>> size and depth hole to begin with pretty much assures that the insert
>> will end up in the right direction.
>
> I'll respectfully disagree with this. The slotted kind of
> insert in particular have very little lead before the start
> of the screw, and it's quite easy to start them crooked.
> Depending on how off from straight you are, it's possible
> for them to cut threads and seat off line (which will then
> make the machine screw you're trying to screw into it bind).
>
> The hex kind usually have a little more lead before the
> start of the thread, and tend to start straight without
> needing quite as much care, altho there's still a level
> of skill to it.
>
> John
>
If you use the right driver tool and drill, with the slotted insert, it
is much easier. The trick is to not use a screw driver and instead use
the drill mounted driver. The driver mounted to the drill gives you a
lot of leverage for starting it straight. Here is what you want.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=70791&cat=3,41306
EZLOK makes many different drill driver bits for specific sizes.
On Sun, 05 Apr 2015 11:44:44 -0400, woodchucker <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 4/4/2015 10:22 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> I saw a video a while back; the Wood Whisperer, I think. He was tapping
>> some holes in wood, for what purpose I have forgotten. He claimed that
>> the results were pretty strong, which surprised me. Machine threads
>> seemed too shallow for wood.
>>
>> As it happens, I have a set of taps; two actually. I didn't buy either
>> of them. A retired electrician friend of mine gave me a set when I was
>> dealing with yet another no-longer-standard (if it ever was) electrical
>> box buried in my plaster wall.
>>
>> The other was from my Dad's garage. My Dad's set is an artifact of an
>> earlier age ('60s, probably), complete with a wooden case with recesses
>> for each tap (and each die). The tap recesses have a hole at one end
>> that's a little deeper than the rest of the recess. That's to allow you
>> press that end of the tap down in order to tilt the other end up. Nice.
>> It looks like my Dad might have used one size of tap: 3/8". The rest
>> appear completely untouched.
>>
>> Anyway, the all that "Whispering" made me curious. I recently
>> reconfigured my dado jig to be width-adjustable. I used a pair of
>> Rockler star knobs and some metal threaded inserts. It works fine, but
>> what a pain it was to insert those ... inserts.
>>
>> Yes, I know there's a tool, but I don't have it. I used a the widest
>> slot screwdriver I have, but it still slipped out of the little grooves
>> repeatedly, especially before the insert "bit" enough into the wood to
>> keep itself upright.
>That slot is to cut threads into the wood. I just take a screw and put a
>nut on it, lock it down and drive it. Never use the brass slot to drive it.
The slot is on the back end of the insert. How does it cut threads? I
agree that using a flat-blade screwdriver isn't the best way to insert
inserts. There are tools used to install these things, though I like
the threaded rod idea (alignment).
http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/12K55/T-Wrench-for-14-20-Inserts.aspx
>>
On 4/7/2015 2:11 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> "krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> If you want a leader on the rod to help guide it into the piece, the
>> hole has to be deeper than the insert (or through). If you don't want
>> the leader, the threaded rod has no advantage over the tool. That was
>> the point.
>
> I originally mentioned a threaded rod (or bolt) to Greg as a better way of
> inserting them rather than using a screwdriver, not as a guide. If one
> needs mechanical help in inserting them straight, chuck the rod in a drill
> press. Cautionary note: turn the chuck by hand, not power :)
>
Yes and that is fine but you certainly do not need the threaded rod to
be a guide leading the insertion of the insert. ;~)
And with the proper driver bit a hand drill will work just fine. It is
easy to hold the drill perpendicular to the hole while you let the drill
do the driving work.