EC

Electric Comet

07/04/2015 8:42 AM

tenon, back, dovetail, mitre hand saw


If you look at what's for sale new or used some of the prices are
ridiculous

i guess enough people think that a wood handle and saw blade should
fetch lots of money

And "vintage" saws on ebay and bonanza must be inflated due to some
collector frenzy

I thought i'd find a used saw for cheap but now I am gonna get a
new 1 or 2

And vintage seems to be anything that just looks old. Dirt and rust
and abuse seems to make it vintage

















This topic has 69 replies

Ll

Leon

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

26/04/2015 9:51 AM

On 4/26/2015 1:23 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
> On 4/26/2015 2:18 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
>> On 4/25/2015 11:58 PM, WD wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:03:34 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Buyer beware:
>>>>
>>> On Ebay: <snip for bevity>
>>>
>>> Since last year was searching for 4 levelers for a new tablesaw
>>> extension/assemble table. Found one in Rockler at $25.99 each plus tax
>>> and
>>> shipping. Too damn expensive, decided not to buy. Maybe fabricate them
>>> when I
>>> come to it.
>>>
>>> http://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-lifting-leveler
>>>
>>> Last week browsing in Internet found an exact identical leveler in
>>> Woodworker's
>>> Hardware at $4.72 each. Called the salesperson to verify everything in
>>> the
>>> picture and not just the screw bolt without the bracket. He replied
>>> everything
>>> in the picture. Bought 8 pcs plus few other items and total shipping
>>> charges
>>> came to $11.99. However total weight is 4.40 lbs. for 8 sets plus
>>> other items
>>> should weight more, right?
>>>
>>> http://www.wwhardware.com/heavy-duty-leg-leveler-sygheavy-m10x75
>>>
>>> The package will arrive next Friday 30th April, wait and see and post
>>> the
>>> result. :-)
>>>
>>>
>> That's a certainly a better price from Woodworker's Hardware, but the
>> Rockler link does say the $25.99 price is for a set of 4.
>
> Just noticed the WW Hardware item is rated for 2000 pounds (yikes!), vs
> Rockler's at 600 lbs. Must have some substantial mounting screws.

And yet if this particular leveling foot is mounted correctly the screws
offer little more other than to keep the foot assy. from falling off of
the cabinet. A lot like Euro hinge screws that hold the door onto the
35mm cup.
But that said, I seriously doubt if the weight capacities actually
differ as much as stated. These style leveling feet are pretty robust,
I think many are rated as a set and some individually. All of them
appear to be made of the same material and design. It is pretty likely
that if you build it and can lift it these particular feet can handle it.


Ww

WD

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

25/04/2015 8:58 PM

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:03:34 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:


>Buyer beware:
>
On Ebay: <snip for bevity>

Since last year was searching for 4 levelers for a new tablesaw
extension/assemble table. Found one in Rockler at $25.99 each plus tax and
shipping. Too damn expensive, decided not to buy. Maybe fabricate them when I
come to it.

http://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-lifting-leveler

Last week browsing in Internet found an exact identical leveler in Woodworker's
Hardware at $4.72 each. Called the salesperson to verify everything in the
picture and not just the screw bolt without the bracket. He replied everything
in the picture. Bought 8 pcs plus few other items and total shipping charges
came to $11.99. However total weight is 4.40 lbs. for 8 sets plus other items
should weight more, right?

http://www.wwhardware.com/heavy-duty-leg-leveler-sygheavy-m10x75

The package will arrive next Friday 30th April, wait and see and post the
result. :-)

c

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

16/04/2015 6:55 PM

On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:03:34 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Buyer beware:
>
>On Ebay:
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-STYLE-PULL-STROKE-FLUSH-WOOD-CUT-FINE-TOOL-CUTTING-HAND-SAW-WOODWORKING-/281146133358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41759d8b6e
>
> From Harbor Freight:
>http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-flush-cut-pull-saw-94722.html
>
>On Ebay:
>http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-JAPANESE-STYLE-DOUBLE-EDGE-FLUSH-WOOD-CUT-FINE-PULL-TOOL-CUTTING-HAND-SAW-/281146130478?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41759d802e
>
> From Harbor Freight
>http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-flush-cut-saw-39273.html
>
>Maybe this is a common Ebay tactic; buy stuff at HF, try to sell it on
>Ebay for 3x to 4x the price? Hey, maybe they don't even buy them first;
>if they get 15 orders, it's off to HF to buy 15 saws.

Quite a few E-Bay sellers sell what they don't own, and go pick up
what they sell. Others just order from their supplier and drop ship to
the buyer - they never even see the product.
>
>At eight bucks, I bought the first one (at HF). I only made a couple of
>test cuts so far. I think it will turn out to be useful. I was able to
>make a clean straight cut without too much difficulty. The toughest
>thing to wrap my mind around was not cutting onthe "pull stroke", but
>that I had to start the groove by pushing the saw.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

LK

Larry Kraus

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

26/04/2015 2:18 AM

On 4/25/2015 11:58 PM, WD wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:03:34 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Buyer beware:
>>
> On Ebay: <snip for bevity>
>
> Since last year was searching for 4 levelers for a new tablesaw
> extension/assemble table. Found one in Rockler at $25.99 each plus tax and
> shipping. Too damn expensive, decided not to buy. Maybe fabricate them when I
> come to it.
>
> http://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-lifting-leveler
>
> Last week browsing in Internet found an exact identical leveler in Woodworker's
> Hardware at $4.72 each. Called the salesperson to verify everything in the
> picture and not just the screw bolt without the bracket. He replied everything
> in the picture. Bought 8 pcs plus few other items and total shipping charges
> came to $11.99. However total weight is 4.40 lbs. for 8 sets plus other items
> should weight more, right?
>
> http://www.wwhardware.com/heavy-duty-leg-leveler-sygheavy-m10x75
>
> The package will arrive next Friday 30th April, wait and see and post the
> result. :-)
>
>
That's a certainly a better price from Woodworker's Hardware, but the
Rockler link does say the $25.99 price is for a set of 4.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 10:51 AM

On 4/15/2015 10:16 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:11:56 GMT
> [email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> Why would you think that? It's high-carbon
>> steel, not stainless.
>
> was a question

Really? Looks more like a deduction.

> i guess that explains the lack of rust

Why would you think that? It's high-carbon
steel, not stainless.



Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

16/04/2015 12:32 PM

On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 3:03:37 PM UTC-4, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Buyer beware:
>
> On Ebay:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-STYLE-PULL-STROKE-FLUSH-WOOD-CUT-FINE-TOOL-CUTTING-HAND-SAW-WOODWORKING-/281146133358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41759d8b6e
>
> From Harbor Freight:
> http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-flush-cut-pull-saw-94722.html
>
> On Ebay:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-JAPANESE-STYLE-DOUBLE-EDGE-FLUSH-WOOD-CUT-FINE-PULL-TOOL-CUTTING-HAND-SAW-/281146130478?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41759d802e
>
> From Harbor Freight
> http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-flush-cut-saw-39273.html
>
> Maybe this is a common Ebay tactic; buy stuff at HF, try to sell it on
> Ebay for 3x to 4x the price? Hey, maybe they don't even buy them first;
> if they get 15 orders, it's off to HF to buy 15 saws.
>
> At eight bucks, I bought the first one (at HF). I only made a couple of
> test cuts so far. I think it will turn out to be useful. I was able to
> make a clean straight cut without too much difficulty. The toughest
> thing to wrap my mind around was not cutting onthe "pull stroke", but
> that I had to start the groove by pushing the saw.

Never mind Buyer Beware, it's more like Buyer Be Idiot.

The eBay descriptions for the saws include the HF part number:

HFT-94722
HFT-39273

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 10:09 AM

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 11:50:16 AM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Electric Comet wrote:
> > If you look at what's for sale new or used some of the prices are
> > ridiculous
> >
> > i guess enough people think that a wood handle and saw blade should
> > fetch lots of money
> >
> > And "vintage" saws on ebay and bonanza must be inflated due to some
> > collector frenzy
> >
> > I thought i'd find a used saw for cheap but now I am gonna get a
> > new 1 or 2
> >
> > And vintage seems to be anything that just looks old. Dirt and rust
> > and abuse seems to make it vintage
>
> It's been said before - don't sell yourself short - take a look at Harbor
> Freight. Perfectly good quality saws.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]

Warning: Phrasing Police In The Vicinity

What does "don't sell yourself short" have to do with buying tools at HF?

Shouldn't it be "don't sell Harbor Freight short" since it's the quality of HF tools you are referring to, not the quality or abilities of Electric Comet?

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 11:01 AM

On Wednesday, April 15, 2015 at 12:19:21 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Thank you for answering a question that was not asked.
>
> it's an answer you have to find if you can't you can't
> i gave some criteria apply them and see where you are there

Thank you for another clearly written response.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 11:53 AM

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 1:59:02 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 11:05:59 -0500
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>=20
> > All in the eyes of the beholder. There are tools that you can buy
> > and use to purposely damage your fresh built piece of furniture. I
> > think the technique is called distressing. Some people will pay more
> > for experienced tools. ;~)
>=20
> counterfeiting is another word that would describe it

I disagree.

The common definition of counterfeiting is:

"Counterfeiting is the practice of manufacturing goods, often of inferior q=
uality, and selling them under a brand name without the brand owner's autho=
rization."

"Distressing" is nothing more than a type of finishing:

"Distressing (or weathered look) in the decorative arts is the activity of =
making a piece of furniture or object appear aged and older, giving it a "w=
eathered look..."

If I build a new chair, distress it and then try to pass it off as a c-1920=
Stickley, then I am guilty of counterfeiting. However, if I simply make th=
at new chair look old - and don't try to sell it as an brand named antique =
- I'm guilty of nothing.

What is somewhat misleading in that definition of distressing is the fact t=
hat distressing is often used to make an old object look it's correct age a=
fter being refinished. Yes, while you are making the newly refinished objec=
t *appear* "older", which is true to the wording in the definition, in real=
ity you are not trying to make a "new" object appear "old", since it actual=
ly is. I've done both: made new objects look old and made old objects look =
new and then made them look old again.

>=20
> Some saw sellers seem to be capable of time travel as they have an
> endless supply of "vintage" saws


Maybe that's because there are a lot more old tools than new simply because=
for so many, many years hand tools were the only tools available. Think ab=
out how long dovetails have been being made and for how short a time (relat=
ively speaking) that they have been able to be made without the use of a ha=
nd saw. Hundreds of years of hand saws being the only option makes for an a=
wful large inventory.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

08/04/2015 1:20 PM

John McCoy <[email protected]> writes:

>(I agree with you on the price of "antique" tools, but that's
>because most sellers are not knowledgeable, and just copy the
>price they see on someone else's website for something that
>looks similar. That problem exists for pretty much anything
>antique, not just tools).

I've had better luck at flea markets and garage sales. Most
recently, a pristine stanley sweetheart (manuf by Disston) 24" back saw
for $10.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 9:42 AM

On 4/15/2015 8:11 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 01:38:14 -0700 (PDT)
>> whit3rd <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Silver steel is an old (or British) name for tool steel, i.e.
>>> hardenable high-carbon steel, O1 or A2 are typical.
>>
>> i guess that explains the lack of rust
>
> Why would you think that? It's high-carbon
> steel, not stainless.
>


And FWIW certain grades of Stainless will rust too, especially those
that a magnet will stick to.

Ww

WD

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

26/04/2015 8:26 PM

On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 12:49:20 -0400, Larry Kraus <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/26/2015 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
>> It is pretty likely that if you build it and can lift it these
>> particular feet can handle it.
> That's probably the best rule of thumb. (McMaster-Carr under rates
>them at 100 lb.)
>
>Need to make up a shopping list.

Had I know McMaster-Carr selling them I would have bought from them. However, I
also needed other type of levelers and bought them together from Woodworker's
Hardware thus saving S&H cost.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 1:19 PM

On 4/15/2015 11:13 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:51:01 -0500
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> Why would you think that? It's high-carbon
>> steel, not stainless.
>
> what's your explanation would like to hear it
>
>
I have no explanation. I was just pointing out what seemed to be a
deductive statement, made by you, was what I thought you later said was
a question. Using punctuation might have make your comments a bit more
clear.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 5:49 PM

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:25:55 GMT
>[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> If a handsaw blade hasn't rusted, it's been treated well.
>
>or made in low O2 environment or lots of other possibilities since
>steel making is complicated and the issue is more complicated when
>you throw in something made long ago where the technique was only
>know by few people including the alloy's composition
>i.e. did they add special ingredients

It's difficult to comprehend the sense of long run-on sentences.

It would help you to convey your information more successfully
if you were to use basic grammar, capitalization and sentence structure
when formulating your pronouncements.

It appears that you're suggesting that the formulation of steel used
for cutting tools in the 20th century was some sort of mystery, which
is pretty far from reality.

As Leon pointed out, even stainless can show corrosion effects.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 6:36 PM

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:21:14 GMT
>[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> complain, complain, complain.
>
>no
>confirmed observations
>you can check your self

I have confirmed that you like to complain.

>
>
>> That said, for amateur dovetails, get a stanley dovetail saw
>> from home depot or lowes for a few bucks; take a ball-peen
>> hammer and an anvil (or the anvil on a bench vise) and carefully
>> reduce the set, evenly on both sides. Don't remove the set
>> entirely, but minimize it. Then test the saw in some end-grain;
>> if it doesn't follow your line, the set is probably asymmetric and
>> you'll need to adjust as necessary.
>
>have watched some videos on setting the saw
>it gets hard to do with higher number of points per inch
>need to break out the magnifier

If you do as I suggested, you won't need a saw set. Just a
hammer and a flat surface is sufficient to _reduce_ the set.

The set on mass-produced dovetail saws is excessive and generally
uneven. It's pretty simple to reduce the set with a hammer.

LK

Larry Kraus

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

26/04/2015 2:23 AM

On 4/26/2015 2:18 AM, Larry Kraus wrote:
> On 4/25/2015 11:58 PM, WD wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:03:34 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Buyer beware:
>>>
>> On Ebay: <snip for bevity>
>>
>> Since last year was searching for 4 levelers for a new tablesaw
>> extension/assemble table. Found one in Rockler at $25.99 each plus tax
>> and
>> shipping. Too damn expensive, decided not to buy. Maybe fabricate them
>> when I
>> come to it.
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-lifting-leveler
>>
>> Last week browsing in Internet found an exact identical leveler in
>> Woodworker's
>> Hardware at $4.72 each. Called the salesperson to verify everything in
>> the
>> picture and not just the screw bolt without the bracket. He replied
>> everything
>> in the picture. Bought 8 pcs plus few other items and total shipping
>> charges
>> came to $11.99. However total weight is 4.40 lbs. for 8 sets plus
>> other items
>> should weight more, right?
>>
>> http://www.wwhardware.com/heavy-duty-leg-leveler-sygheavy-m10x75
>>
>> The package will arrive next Friday 30th April, wait and see and post the
>> result. :-)
>>
>>
> That's a certainly a better price from Woodworker's Hardware, but the
> Rockler link does say the $25.99 price is for a set of 4.

Just noticed the WW Hardware item is rated for 2000 pounds (yikes!), vs
Rockler's at 600 lbs. Must have some substantial mounting screws.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 8:16 PM

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:49:24 GMT
>[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> It appears that you're suggesting that the formulation of steel used
>> for cutting tools in the 20th century was some sort of mystery, which
>> is pretty far from reality.
>
>give some data
>
>tell us all what was used in the alloy for the silver steel saw the other
>post mentioned
>
>include also how the saw was made using that silver steel

It appears you are only participating in this thread in
order to appear argumentative. I decline further participation.

Do your own research if you wish to learn the answers. I will
point out that there is a wikipedia entry on silver steel that
you may actually learn something from.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

08/04/2015 8:22 PM

John McCoy <[email protected]> writes:
>[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote in news:9W9Vw.220459$IH4.137234
>@fx08.iad:
>
>> I've had better luck at flea markets and garage sales. Most
>> recently, a pristine stanley sweetheart (manuf by Disston) 24" back saw
>> for $10.
>
>Likewise - my favorite crosscut saw is a Disston with a
>cosmetically challenged handle, that came from a flea market.
>Even with my inexperienced sharpening, it cuts very well.
>According to the Disston medallion site, it's around a
>WW1 vintage.
>
>I also have a 24" backsaw like yours, which unfortunately
>lost it's miterbox a long time ago. One of these days I'll
>feel up to trying to sharpen it. It's an impressive looking
>thing compared to a modern backsaw.


I have a stanley #100 (from before stanley bought the company
that made them) which works quite well with the 24" backsaw.

http://5.forums.drupal.assets.tauntonnet.com/sites/forums.finewoodworking.com/files/attach_images/152051/img_5244.jpg

Perfect for picture framing.

JM

John McCoy

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 9:31 PM

Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in news:mg15n8$s79$10
@dont-email.me:

> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 17:16:29 +0000 (UTC)
> Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> BTW, get one with replaceable blades - sharpening a Japanese saw is a
>> job for an expert. But they last a long time.
>
> was concerned about the sharpening after looking at the blade closeup
> like to be able to sharpen them myself
> still leaves options though

Since you mention this, and you also mentioned setting teeth,
be aware that any saw you buy at Harbor Freight, Home Depot,
etc, likely has hardened teeth that you cannot sharpen; nor
can you set them (they'll break off), altho you can reduce
the set as has been suggested.

(I agree with you on the price of "antique" tools, but that's
because most sellers are not knowledgeable, and just copy the
price they see on someone else's website for something that
looks similar. That problem exists for pretty much anything
antique, not just tools).

John

JM

John McCoy

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

08/04/2015 6:01 PM

Electric Comet <[email protected]> wrote in news:mg1ngt$mkb$1
@dont-email.me:

> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 21:31:42 +0000 (UTC)
> John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Since you mention this, and you also mentioned setting teeth,
>> be aware that any saw you buy at Harbor Freight, Home Depot,
>> etc, likely has hardened teeth that you cannot sharpen; nor
>
> How do I tell if they are hardened
> or is the correct word here tempered

Hardened is the correct word - in fact, I think the process
used is called "induction hardening". As far as I know, all
mass-production saws are made that way today (i.e. Stanley,
Disston, Lenox, etc - anything you'd get at Home Depot or
Lowes). The way you tell is to try filing one - a hardened
tooth is as hard as a file, so the file won't cut it (or,
you could on the makers website, which probably says).

John

JM

John McCoy

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

08/04/2015 6:11 PM

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote in news:9W9Vw.220459$IH4.137234
@fx08.iad:

> I've had better luck at flea markets and garage sales. Most
> recently, a pristine stanley sweetheart (manuf by Disston) 24" back saw
> for $10.

Likewise - my favorite crosscut saw is a Disston with a
cosmetically challenged handle, that came from a flea market.
Even with my inexperienced sharpening, it cuts very well.
According to the Disston medallion site, it's around a
WW1 vintage.

I also have a 24" backsaw like yours, which unfortunately
lost it's miterbox a long time ago. One of these days I'll
feel up to trying to sharpen it. It's an impressive looking
thing compared to a modern backsaw.

John

JM

John McCoy

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 10:09 PM

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote in news:EwxXw.234221$7U.148679
@fx31.iad:

> Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>>On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:25:55 GMT

>>or made in low O2 environment or lots of other possibilities since
>>steel making is complicated and the issue is more complicated when
>>you throw in something made long ago where the technique was only
>>know by few people including the alloy's composition
>>i.e. did they add special ingredients
>
> It's difficult to comprehend the sense of long run-on sentences.
>
> It would help you to convey your information more successfully
> if you were to use basic grammar, capitalization and sentence structure
> when formulating your pronouncements.

I often wonder if people who write like that (and it's
become distressingly common) also talk like that.

John

wn

woodchucker

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

26/04/2015 9:29 PM

On 4/25/2015 11:58 PM, WD wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:03:34 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Buyer beware:
>>
> On Ebay: <snip for bevity>
>
> Since last year was searching for 4 levelers for a new tablesaw
> extension/assemble table. Found one in Rockler at $25.99 each plus tax and
> shipping. Too damn expensive, decided not to buy. Maybe fabricate them when I
> come to it.
>
> http://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-lifting-leveler
>
> Last week browsing in Internet found an exact identical leveler in Woodworker's
> Hardware at $4.72 each. Called the salesperson to verify everything in the
> picture and not just the screw bolt without the bracket. He replied everything
> in the picture. Bought 8 pcs plus few other items and total shipping charges
> came to $11.99. However total weight is 4.40 lbs. for 8 sets plus other items
> should weight more, right?
>
> http://www.wwhardware.com/heavy-duty-leg-leveler-sygheavy-m10x75
>
> The package will arrive next Friday 30th April, wait and see and post the
> result. :-)
>
>

No, sounds about right for the 8 pcs. They are stamped steel and a
screw. Nothing too fancy. So about a 1/2 pound each sounds right. Don't
know what else you got so can't say. But that sounds about right.

Yea, I saw rocklers and always thought are they made out of gold.
I make my own from TNuts and bolts with the heads sanded down.

--
Jeff

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

14/04/2015 5:50 PM

On Tuesday, April 14, 2015 at 5:59:33 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:21:04 -0700 (PDT)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > ...which is the point I've been trying to make all along. Since you
> > now seem to agree with me, I assume you no longer consider me to be
> > unscrupulous.
>
> I consider anyone trying to deceive buyers to be unscrupulous
> some on ebay do so but may not even realize they are but that still
> doesn't excuse them from saying they're unsure about the product
>
> there are sellers that will take dark photos on purpose
> there are sellers that will not show a defect
> these are bad sellers
>
> there are sellers that do their best to reveal all and provide
> photos so the buyer can decide
> they answer questions

Thank you for answering a question that was not asked.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

11/04/2015 6:16 PM

On Saturday, April 11, 2015 at 7:09:08 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:56:26 -0700 (PDT)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> > Nope.
>=20
> unscrupulous is the word a collector used for folks like you
> i agree with them they warned me about this
>=20

Folks like me? Folks that offer definitions? What's unscrupulous about that=
?

> if you purposefully make a tool look older than it is in order to
> get more money for it that's wrong and deceptive

Not true. Purposefully making something look older than it is to get more m=
oney is not deceptive unless you also claim/imply that it is older than it =
is.=20

Remember what you said that I said "Nope" to:

"if someone's distressing a tool to make it look vintage that's counterfeit=
ing"

Distressing an object is nothing more than a finishing technique. Granted, =
if someone distresses an new object and then *advertises* it as vintage/ant=
ique/circa-1888, then yes, that is unscrupulous. However, the mere distress=
ing of an object to make it look old is neither counterfeiting nor unscrupu=
lous. It's nothing more than a finishing technique. That was my point, and =
the reason for my "Nope".

If I build a new house and finish it a style that makes it look like it was=
built in the 1800's - including using crackle paint to make it look really=
old - and then offer it for sale, that is not unscrupulous. However, I try=
to convince someone that the house was actually built in the 1800's, then =
I am being unscrupulous. The same goes for tools, furniture, paintings, etc=
.

You need to separate the finishing technique from the words used when adver=
tising the object for sale before you can say that the seller is being unsc=
rupulous. You need to consider the intent of the seller. Many people will =
pay more money for something with a distressed finish simply because they l=
ike the way it looks. Go to any crafts show and look at the hundreds of old=
looking objects that are both not old and not being advertised as old. Not=
hing unscrupulous going on there.

Here's a perfect example. I've made a number of these for my kids and for t=
heir friends. I distressed the hash tag to make it look older than it is. T=
here is absolutely nothing unscrupulous about making that brand new hash ta=
g look older than it is because I never claimed it was a "vintage hash tag"=
. It was distressed to make it look older than it is in an attempt to blend=
an old communication style (the chalkboard) with the new (twitter).=20

https://buzzfarmers.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Screen-Shot-2012-12-08-a=
t-1.29.58-PM.png



Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

13/04/2015 8:21 PM

On Monday, April 13, 2015 at 10:06:03 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 18:16:43 -0700 (PDT)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Not true. Purposefully making something look older than it is to get
> > more money is not deceptive unless you also claim/imply that it is
> > older than it is.
>
> I meant the case where tools are claimed to be vintage or older based
> upon deceptive practices. The word "vintage" is already misused on
> ebay, bonanza, ecrater, etc.
> >
> > Remember what you said that I said "Nope" to:
> >
> > "if someone's distressing a tool to make it look vintage that's
> > counterfeiting"
> >
> > Distressing an object is nothing more than a finishing technique.
> > Granted, if someone distresses an new object and then *advertises* it
> > as vintage/antique/circa-1888, then yes, that is unscrupulous.
> > However, the mere distressing of an object to make it look old is
> > neither counterfeiting nor unscrupulous. It's nothing more than a
> > finishing technique. That was my point, and the reason for my "Nope".
>
> not for tools, for furniture it's legit
>
> but deception is the key and if that's the intent it's wrong

...which is the point I've been trying to make all along. Since you now seem to agree with me, I assume you no longer consider me to be unscrupulous.

By the way, distressing can even be "legit" for tools, as long there is no intent to deceive. These tools probably *are* vintage, but if one were to make new tools look old and then display them as art, there would be nothing unscrupulous about it.

http://empressofdirt.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Garden-folk-art-tools.jpg

ww

whit3rd

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

14/04/2015 1:38 AM

On Thursday, April 9, 2015 at 12:43:37 PM UTC-7, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 21:28:30 +0000 (UTC)
> Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Oh, about that propensity to rust. My favorite old saw is an Atkins
> > "Silver Steel" saw. Must be some forerunner of stainless steel,
> > because it's rare to find one with more that one or two little spots
> > of rust. Come to think of it, it's rare to find one, period!
>
> Does it have silver?

Silver steel is an old (or British) name for tool steel, i.e. hardenable
high-carbon steel, O1 or A2 are typical.

Dt

DerbyDad03

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 12:56 PM

On Tuesday, April 7, 2015 at 3:45:03 PM UTC-4, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I disagree.
>
> ok when you come back from the weeds
>
> if someone's distressing a tool to make it look vintage that's
> counterfeiting

Nope.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 5:21 PM

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>
>If you look at what's for sale new or used some of the prices are
>ridiculous
>
>i guess enough people think that a wood handle and saw blade should
>fetch lots of money
>
>And "vintage" saws on ebay and bonanza must be inflated due to some
>collector frenzy

complain, complain, complain.

There are reasons that some "vintage" saws command higher
prices, starting with the quality of the steel in the blade,
the stiffness of the back (back/tenon/dovetail), the thickness
and taper of the blade, the set, the tooth grind (rip, crosscut) and
not to be discounted, appearance.

That said, for amateur dovetails, get a stanley dovetail saw
from home depot or lowes for a few bucks; take a ball-peen
hammer and an anvil (or the anvil on a bench vise) and carefully
reduce the set, evenly on both sides. Don't remove the set
entirely, but minimize it. Then test the saw in some end-grain;
if it doesn't follow your line, the set is probably asymmetric and
you'll need to adjust as necessary.

MM

"Mike Marlow"

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 11:49 AM

Electric Comet wrote:
> If you look at what's for sale new or used some of the prices are
> ridiculous
>
> i guess enough people think that a wood handle and saw blade should
> fetch lots of money
>
> And "vintage" saws on ebay and bonanza must be inflated due to some
> collector frenzy
>
> I thought i'd find a used saw for cheap but now I am gonna get a
> new 1 or 2
>
> And vintage seems to be anything that just looks old. Dirt and rust
> and abuse seems to make it vintage

It's been said before - don't sell yourself short - take a look at Harbor
Freight. Perfectly good quality saws.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 9:24 AM

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:49:43 -0400
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:

> It's been said before - don't sell yourself short - take a look at
> Harbor Freight. Perfectly good quality saws.

point me to some good dovetail saws on HF
looked and didn'tt see any















dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 1:02 PM


"Electric Comet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If you look at what's for sale new or used some of the prices are
> ridiculous
>
> i guess enough people think that a wood handle and saw blade should
> fetch lots of money
>
> And "vintage" saws on ebay and bonanza must be inflated due to some
> collector frenzy
>
> I thought i'd find a used saw for cheap but now I am gonna get a
> new 1 or 2

I agree that many of the prices are ridiculous.

If it were me, I'd be looking at dozuki saws. They are super for dovetails
even though that isn't their specific purpose. (There is another, smaller
one - forget the name - specifically for that purpose).

They may not serve for tenons due to the depth of cut being limited by the
spine. One could cut go as deep as possible and finish with a kataba or
flush cut, no spine on either.

If you are interested in them, be aware that some are for rip, others for
crosscut; number of TPI varies too. AFAIK, they are mostly for softwoods
but I use them on hardwood too. The teeth are very hard and therefore
brittle, can be broken off if one isn't careful.

Prices vary widely. I used to buy them for $15-$20, see them on eBay now
for $35-$50 which is about the same adjusting for inflation. One could also
pay a ton more but I wouldn't, YMMV.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

LB

Larry Blanchard

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 5:16 PM

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 13:02:16 -0400, dadiOH wrote:

> I agree that many of the prices are ridiculous.
>
> If it were me, I'd be looking at dozuki saws. They are super for
> dovetails even though that isn't their specific purpose. (There is
> another, smaller one - forget the name - specifically for that purpose).

I second that suggestion. Thinner kerf = less effort = faster cutting.
And once you get used to the pull instead of push you'll love it.

BTW, get one with replaceable blades - sharpening a Japanese saw is a job
for an expert. But they last a long time.

Here's the one I've used for years:

http://www.amazon.com/Rockler-Dozuki-Dovetail-Saw/dp/B001DSY7G6

EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 10:49 AM

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:21:14 GMT
[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> complain, complain, complain.

no
confirmed observations
you can check your self


> That said, for amateur dovetails, get a stanley dovetail saw
> from home depot or lowes for a few bucks; take a ball-peen
> hammer and an anvil (or the anvil on a bench vise) and carefully
> reduce the set, evenly on both sides. Don't remove the set
> entirely, but minimize it. Then test the saw in some end-grain;
> if it doesn't follow your line, the set is probably asymmetric and
> you'll need to adjust as necessary.

have watched some videos on setting the saw
it gets hard to do with higher number of points per inch
need to break out the magnifier
















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 10:53 AM

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 13:02:16 -0400
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I agree that many of the prices are ridiculous.

but it turns in my favor because now I won't bother with a used saw
i am looking new only


> If it were me, I'd be looking at dozuki saws. They are super for
> dovetails even though that isn't their specific purpose. (There is
> another, smaller one - forget the name - specifically for that
> purpose).

Yes I see some of these and might try one


> They may not serve for tenons due to the depth of cut being limited
> by the spine. One could cut go as deep as possible and finish with a
> kataba or flush cut, no spine on either.

just looking at oding dovetails for now


> Prices vary widely. I used to buy them for $15-$20, see them on eBay
> now for $35-$50 which is about the same adjusting for inflation. One
> could also pay a ton more but I wouldn't, YMMV.

new ones aree cheaper I'm finding





















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 10:55 AM

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 17:16:29 +0000 (UTC)
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:

> BTW, get one with replaceable blades - sharpening a Japanese saw is a
> job for an expert. But they last a long time.

was concerned about the sharpening after looking at the blade closeup
like to be able to sharpen them myself
still leaves options though















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 10:57 AM

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 11:05:59 -0500
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> All in the eyes of the beholder. There are tools that you can buy
> and use to purposely damage your fresh built piece of furniture. I
> think the technique is called distressing. Some people will pay more
> for experienced tools. ;~)

counterfeiting is another word that would describe it

Some saw sellers seem to be capable of time travel as they have an
endless supply of "vintage" saws


















MM

"Mike Marlow"

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 2:16 PM

Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:49:43 -0400
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> It's been said before - don't sell yourself short - take a look at
>> Harbor Freight. Perfectly good quality saws.
>
> point me to some good dovetail saws on HF
> looked and didn'tt see any

There might not be any that are specifically dovetail saws but there are
saws that would make a good saw for dovetails. Here's one:

http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-flush-cut-pull-saw-94722.html

Another:

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-flush-cut-saw-39273.html


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

dd

"dadiOH"

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 3:02 PM


"Electric Comet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 17:16:29 +0000 (UTC)
> Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> BTW, get one with replaceable blades - sharpening a Japanese saw is a
>> job for an expert. But they last a long time.
>
> was concerned about the sharpening after looking at the blade closeup
> like to be able to sharpen them myself
> still leaves options though

There are "feather" files for that purpose. Easily available, here are
some...
http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?cat=1,43072,43089&p=32951

Personally, I would never bother sharpening one. First of all, there are
200+ teeth; secondly, the steel is very hard and it will be a long time
before they need sharpening. I still use (occasionly) one I bought 40 years
ago. I have others too but it is my favorite...missing some teeth near the
heel so I just don't use that part.

--

dadiOH
____________________________

Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net

EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 12:41 PM

On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 18:36:21 GMT
[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> If you do as I suggested, you won't need a saw set. Just a

no saw set mentioned only saw setting


















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 12:43 PM

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 11:53:29 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> I disagree.

ok when you come back from the weeds

if someone's distressing a tool to make it look vintage that's
counterfeiting















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 12:46 PM

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 14:16:44 -0400
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:

> There might not be any that are specifically dovetail saws but there
> are saws that would make a good saw for dovetails. Here's one:

ok you're the one always pom-pom for HF!! I knew there was someone here
it's fine
I get they flyers all the time but still haven't been compleled enough


those saws
no I don't think so















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 3:58 PM

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 21:31:42 +0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> Since you mention this, and you also mentioned setting teeth,
> be aware that any saw you buy at Harbor Freight, Home Depot,
> etc, likely has hardened teeth that you cannot sharpen; nor

How do I tell if they are hardened
or is the correct word here tempered


> can you set them (they'll break off), altho you can reduce
> the set as has been suggested.

I'd likely break them off trying to alter the set


> (I agree with you on the price of "antique" tools, but that's
> because most sellers are not knowledgeable, and just copy the
> price they see on someone else's website for something that
> looks similar. That problem exists for pretty much anything
> antique, not just tools).

I did look at prices for completed auctions and the prices are
too high for me.

There are a lot of unsavvy sellers that do those things and worse
maybe unsavvy is generous


Another interesting thing I've seen on ebay is that prices for veritas
things sell very close to new prices and I think I saw one sell for
more

Auction frenzy syndrome















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

08/04/2015 7:40 AM

an important aspect of this

pull out your nearest 18 point saw and look at the set
I can just make it out but to alter or reset or sharpen I'd definitely
need magnification

that makes the jobs a lot harder for sure
I'll have to rig something up to do this right

















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

08/04/2015 11:50 AM

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 18:01:53 +0000 (UTC)
John McCoy <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hardened is the correct word - in fact, I think the process
> used is called "induction hardening". As far as I know, all
> mass-production saws are made that way today (i.e. Stanley,
> Disston, Lenox, etc - anything you'd get at Home Depot or
> Lowes). The way you tell is to try filing one - a hardened
> tooth is as hard as a file, so the file won't cut it (or,
> you could on the makers website, which probably says).

ok
so grinding will work but not filing
I have a dremel somewhere

funny thing is I have some cheap turning gouges that are made
with softer steel and i find myself using them more than my
other HSS gouges

why because i can put a file on them or even emory cloth
and keep them sharp so i can keep turning with minor interruption

















LB

Larry Blanchard

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

08/04/2015 9:28 PM

On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:20:05 +0000, Scott Lurndal wrote:

> I've had better luck at flea markets and garage sales. Most recently, a
> pristine stanley sweetheart (manuf by Disston) 24" back saw for $10.

Disstons are great saws, but they seem to be rust magnets. Not to
mention they are a gleam in every collectors eye. If you find one
labelled "Disston & Son" (no, not "Sons") grab it - they're rare!

Oh, about that propensity to rust. My favorite old saw is an Atkins
"Silver Steel" saw. Must be some forerunner of stainless steel, because
it's rare to find one with more that one or two little spots of rust.
Come to think of it, it's rare to find one, period!

EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

09/04/2015 12:41 PM

On Wed, 8 Apr 2015 21:28:30 +0000 (UTC)
Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:

> Disstons are great saws, but they seem to be rust magnets. Not to
> mention they are a gleam in every collectors eye. If you find one
> labelled "Disston & Son" (no, not "Sons") grab it - they're rare!

iron that's more pure rusts more easily, also softer
approaching %99 it's not usable for tools probably lower than that


> Oh, about that propensity to rust. My favorite old saw is an Atkins
> "Silver Steel" saw. Must be some forerunner of stainless steel,
> because it's rare to find one with more that one or two little spots
> of rust. Come to think of it, it's rare to find one, period!

Does it have silver?

















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

11/04/2015 4:07 PM

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 12:56:26 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> Nope.

unscrupulous is the word a collector used for folks like you
i agree with them they warned me about this

if you purposefully make a tool look older than it is in order to
get more money for it that's wrong and deceptive

























EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

13/04/2015 7:03 PM

On Sat, 11 Apr 2015 18:16:43 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> Not true. Purposefully making something look older than it is to get
> more money is not deceptive unless you also claim/imply that it is
> older than it is.

I meant the case where tools are claimed to be vintage or older based
upon deceptive practices. The word "vintage" is already misused on
ebay, bonanza, ecrater, etc.

>
> Remember what you said that I said "Nope" to:
>
> "if someone's distressing a tool to make it look vintage that's
> counterfeiting"
>
> Distressing an object is nothing more than a finishing technique.
> Granted, if someone distresses an new object and then *advertises* it
> as vintage/antique/circa-1888, then yes, that is unscrupulous.
> However, the mere distressing of an object to make it look old is
> neither counterfeiting nor unscrupulous. It's nothing more than a
> finishing technique. That was my point, and the reason for my "Nope".

not for tools, for furniture it's legit

but deception is the key and if that's the intent it's wrong

EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

14/04/2015 2:57 PM

On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 20:21:04 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> ...which is the point I've been trying to make all along. Since you
> now seem to agree with me, I assume you no longer consider me to be
> unscrupulous.

I consider anyone trying to deceive buyers to be unscrupulous
some on ebay do so but may not even realize they are but that still
doesn't excuse them from saying they're unsure about the product

there are sellers that will take dark photos on purpose
there are sellers that will not show a defect
these are bad sellers

there are sellers that do their best to reveal all and provide
photos so the buyer can decide
they answer questions














EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

14/04/2015 2:58 PM

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 01:38:14 -0700 (PDT)
whit3rd <[email protected]> wrote:

> Silver steel is an old (or British) name for tool steel, i.e.
> hardenable high-carbon steel, O1 or A2 are typical.

i guess that explains the lack of rust


















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

14/04/2015 3:01 PM

On Tue, 7 Apr 2015 15:02:29 -0400
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote:


> There are "feather" files for that purpose. Easily available, here
> are some...

I think I have one will have to look

> Personally, I would never bother sharpening one. First of all, there
> are 200+ teeth; secondly, the steel is very hard and it will be a
> long time before they need sharpening. I still use (occasionly) one
> I bought 40 years ago. I have others too but it is my
> favorite...missing some teeth near the heel so I just don't use that
> part.

couple seconds per tooth so let's say it takes 20-30 minutes to sharpen
that's not so bad
it's hard to find a person that will do good sharpening












EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

14/04/2015 3:03 PM

On Wed, 08 Apr 2015 13:20:05 GMT
[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> I've had better luck at flea markets and garage sales. Most
> recently, a pristine stanley sweetheart (manuf by Disston) 24" back
> saw for $10.

this is a good point I need to look at garage sales once in a while
also flea markets

not everyone cares or even knows about ebay, bonanza, ecrater, etc.












EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 8:16 AM

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:11:56 GMT
[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> Why would you think that? It's high-carbon
> steel, not stainless.

was a question

what's your answer














EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 9:13 AM

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 10:51:01 -0500
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> Why would you think that? It's high-carbon
> steel, not stainless.

what's your explanation would like to hear it


















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 9:17 AM

On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:

> Thank you for answering a question that was not asked.

it's an answer you have to find if you can't you can't
i gave some criteria apply them and see where you are there

















EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 9:35 AM

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 16:25:55 GMT
[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> If a handsaw blade hasn't rusted, it's been treated well.

or made in low O2 environment or lots of other possibilities since
steel making is complicated and the issue is more complicated when
you throw in something made long ago where the technique was only
know by few people including the alloy's composition
i.e. did they add special ingredients













EC

Electric Comet

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 11:13 AM

On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 17:49:24 GMT
[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:

> It appears that you're suggesting that the formulation of steel used
> for cutting tools in the 20th century was some sort of mystery, which
> is pretty far from reality.

give some data

tell us all what was used in the alloy for the silver steel saw the other
post mentioned

include also how the saw was made using that silver steel
















BB

Bill

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 5:49 PM

Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 17:50:23 -0700 (PDT)
> DerbyDad03 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Thank you for answering a question that was not asked.
> it's an answer you have to find if you can't you can't
> i gave some criteria apply them and see where you are there
>
I can you are frustrating some folks (not me particularly) my ignoring
common rules of grammar. We are not texting. Why deliberately make
messages difficult to understand for people from whom you might enjoy
assistance in the future? Even if you are not an expert in grammar, nor
am I, at least you could capitalize the first word of each sentence and
use a period (.) at the end of each sentence. I hope that helps you in life.

Bill


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GG

Greg Guarino

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

16/04/2015 3:03 PM

Buyer beware:

On Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-STYLE-PULL-STROKE-FLUSH-WOOD-CUT-FINE-TOOL-CUTTING-HAND-SAW-WOODWORKING-/281146133358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41759d8b6e

From Harbor Freight:
http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-flush-cut-pull-saw-94722.html

On Ebay:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-JAPANESE-STYLE-DOUBLE-EDGE-FLUSH-WOOD-CUT-FINE-PULL-TOOL-CUTTING-HAND-SAW-/281146130478?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41759d802e

From Harbor Freight
http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-flush-cut-saw-39273.html

Maybe this is a common Ebay tactic; buy stuff at HF, try to sell it on
Ebay for 3x to 4x the price? Hey, maybe they don't even buy them first;
if they get 15 orders, it's off to HF to buy 15 saws.

At eight bucks, I bought the first one (at HF). I only made a couple of
test cuts so far. I think it will turn out to be useful. I was able to
make a clean straight cut without too much difficulty. The toughest
thing to wrap my mind around was not cutting onthe "pull stroke", but
that I had to start the groove by pushing the saw.







Ll

Leon

in reply to Greg Guarino on 16/04/2015 3:03 PM

26/04/2015 8:02 AM

WD <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:03:34 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>> Buyer beware:
>>
> On Ebay: <snip for bevity>
>
> Since last year was searching for 4 levelers for a new tablesaw
> extension/assemble table. Found one in Rockler at $25.99 each plus tax and
> shipping. Too damn expensive, decided not to buy. Maybe fabricate them when I
> come to it.
>
> http://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-lifting-leveler
>
> Last week browsing in Internet found an exact identical leveler in Woodworker's
> Hardware at $4.72 each. Called the salesperson to verify everything in the
> picture and not just the screw bolt without the bracket. He replied everything
> in the picture. Bought 8 pcs plus few other items and total shipping charges
> came to $11.99. However total weight is 4.40 lbs. for 8 sets plus other items
> should weight more, right?
>
> http://www.wwhardware.com/heavy-duty-leg-leveler-sygheavy-m10x75
>
> The package will arrive next Friday 30th April, wait and see and post the
> result. :-)

McMaster Carr has those leveling feet for $14.91 a 4 pack with screws.
That's where I buy them.

GG

Greg Guarino

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

16/04/2015 4:32 PM

On 4/16/2015 3:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, April 16, 2015 at 3:03:37 PM UTC-4, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> Buyer beware:
>>
>> On Ebay:
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/JAPANESE-STYLE-PULL-STROKE-FLUSH-WOOD-CUT-FINE-TOOL-CUTTING-HAND-SAW-WOODWORKING-/281146133358?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41759d8b6e
>>
>> From Harbor Freight:
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/10-inch-flush-cut-pull-saw-94722.html
>>
>> On Ebay:
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-JAPANESE-STYLE-DOUBLE-EDGE-FLUSH-WOOD-CUT-FINE-PULL-TOOL-CUTTING-HAND-SAW-/281146130478?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41759d802e
>>
>> From Harbor Freight
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-flush-cut-saw-39273.html
>>
>> Maybe this is a common Ebay tactic; buy stuff at HF, try to sell it on
>> Ebay for 3x to 4x the price? Hey, maybe they don't even buy them first;
>> if they get 15 orders, it's off to HF to buy 15 saws.
>>
>> At eight bucks, I bought the first one (at HF). I only made a couple of
>> test cuts so far. I think it will turn out to be useful. I was able to
>> make a clean straight cut without too much difficulty. The toughest
>> thing to wrap my mind around was not cutting onthe "pull stroke", but
>> that I had to start the groove by pushing the saw.
>
> Never mind Buyer Beware, it's more like Buyer Be Idiot.
>
> The eBay descriptions for the saws include the HF part number:
>
> HFT-94722
> HFT-39273
>
I saw that. But it wasn't very conspicuous, nor was it obvious what it
meant. While I agree that people need to be on the lookout for ripoffs,
and I knew those were Harbor Freight saws; not everyone is knowledgeable
about everything.

On a related note, I see Bosch router motors for sale on ebay for very
little less than I recently paid for the same motor with two bases and a
case.

Jj

Jack

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

25/04/2015 10:53 AM

On 4/16/2015 4:32 PM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> On 4/16/2015 3:32 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

>> The eBay descriptions for the saws include the HF part number:
>>
>> HFT-94722
>> HFT-39273
>>
> I saw that. But it wasn't very conspicuous, nor was it obvious what it
> meant. While I agree that people need to be on the lookout for ripoffs,
> and I knew those were Harbor Freight saws; not everyone is knowledgeable
> about everything.

I once needed a cheap Jacobs Chuck for my lathe. I found one on Amazon
for cheap. It was delivered in a box with Harbor Freight numbers. I
looked it up and could have got it cheaper at HF, with no shipping. The
guy selling it through Amazon obviously got them through HF and sold it
to me. I had to smile, thinking good job buddy, you got me.

BTW, the chuck works just fine, one of those HF things worth the money.


--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 4:25 PM

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Wed, 15 Apr 2015 13:11:56 GMT
>[email protected] (Scott Lurndal) wrote:
>
>> Why would you think that? It's high-carbon
>> steel, not stainless.
>
>was a question



"i guess that explains the lack of rust"

isn't a question, it's a supposition.

>
>what's your answer

If a handsaw blade hasn't rusted, it's been treated well.

Quality cutting tools aren't made from stainless steel, primarily
because of the poor edge.

LK

Larry Kraus

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

26/04/2015 12:49 PM

On 4/26/2015 10:51 AM, Leon wrote:
> It is pretty likely that if you build it and can lift it these
> particular feet can handle it.
That's probably the best rule of thumb. (McMaster-Carr under rates
them at 100 lb.)

Need to make up a shopping list.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 11:05 AM

On 4/7/2015 10:42 AM, Electric Comet wrote:
>
> If you look at what's for sale new or used some of the prices are
> ridiculous
>
> i guess enough people think that a wood handle and saw blade should
> fetch lots of money
>
> And "vintage" saws on ebay and bonanza must be inflated due to some
> collector frenzy
>
> I thought i'd find a used saw for cheap but now I am gonna get a
> new 1 or 2
>
> And vintage seems to be anything that just looks old. Dirt and rust
> and abuse seems to make it vintage
>

All in the eyes of the beholder. There are tools that you can buy and
use to purposely damage your fresh built piece of furniture. I think
the technique is called distressing. Some people will pay more for
experienced tools. ;~)

Ww

WD

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

26/04/2015 8:30 PM

On Sun, 26 Apr 2015 02:18:32 -0400, Larry Kraus <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 4/25/2015 11:58 PM, WD wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Apr 2015 15:03:34 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Buyer beware:
>>>
>> On Ebay: <snip for bevity>
>>
>> Since last year was searching for 4 levelers for a new tablesaw
>> extension/assemble table. Found one in Rockler at $25.99 each plus tax and
>> shipping. Too damn expensive, decided not to buy. Maybe fabricate them when I
>> come to it.
>>
>> http://www.rockler.com/heavy-duty-lifting-leveler
>>
>> Last week browsing in Internet found an exact identical leveler in Woodworker's
>> Hardware at $4.72 each. Called the salesperson to verify everything in the
>> picture and not just the screw bolt without the bracket. He replied everything
>> in the picture. Bought 8 pcs plus few other items and total shipping charges
>> came to $11.99. However total weight is 4.40 lbs. for 8 sets plus other items
>> should weight more, right?
>>
>> http://www.wwhardware.com/heavy-duty-leg-leveler-sygheavy-m10x75
>>
>> The package will arrive next Friday 30th April, wait and see and post the
>> result. :-)
>>
>>
>That's a certainly a better price from Woodworker's Hardware, but the
>Rockler link does say the $25.99 price is for a set of 4.

OK, I failed to stroll down, "Sold in sets of 4" and the weight - 1.3 lbs.
Still have to pay CA tax and shipping charge, cost more than Woodworker's
Hardware. I believe it's identical items and made in China as most stuffs are
today.

From past experienced, it doesn't mean buying online in CA where I live will
arrive sooner and cheaper S&H. But still pay CA tax. Given the choices I always
buy out of State.

Another example bought 6 pieces twice external 2.5" harddrive enclosures from
Ebay free shipping from China. It’s cost more from US sellers and again
identical items. The downside takes three weeks or more delivery compare to US
sellers. However buying used computer CPU processor from China cost many times
more than US seller. I always buy “free shipping” from Ebay”.

sS

[email protected] (Scott Lurndal)

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

15/04/2015 1:11 PM

Electric Comet <[email protected]> writes:
>On Tue, 14 Apr 2015 01:38:14 -0700 (PDT)
>whit3rd <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Silver steel is an old (or British) name for tool steel, i.e.
>> hardenable high-carbon steel, O1 or A2 are typical.
>
>i guess that explains the lack of rust

Why would you think that? It's high-carbon
steel, not stainless.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Electric Comet on 07/04/2015 8:42 AM

07/04/2015 1:26 PM

On 4/7/2015 12:57 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Apr 2015 11:05:59 -0500
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> All in the eyes of the beholder. There are tools that you can buy
>> and use to purposely damage your fresh built piece of furniture. I
>> think the technique is called distressing. Some people will pay more
>> for experienced tools. ;~)
>
> counterfeiting is another word that would describe it
>
> Some saw sellers seem to be capable of time travel as they have an
> endless supply of "vintage" saws

I understand. In this day and age where you can now build heirloom
furniture.... Like building an antique. The fact that time is no longer
a factor in the equation to determine if something has proven itself or not.


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