Hi
This is not strictly a DIY question but I hope someone can help or at
least tell me I am not being unreasonable.
We live in an old house so there are no straight lines. A previous owner
dipped the internal doors and the glue has all dissolved leaving them
fragile and unsightly. So we have at great expense purchased new solid
doors, (Veneer on to a solid composite core.) We decided to also have
them fitted by the company again at great expense.
Yesterday the fitters arrived and they are subcontractors. They are
really nice and seem to be competent. However they explained that our
new doors will be hung on 3 small hinges whilst the old ones were on two
large ones.
This is my problem. They say they dont make good the door frame that was
originally cut away to accomodate the old large hinge. They have so far
fitted a few of the 19 door we have bought. Leaving a really unsightly
and awkward to deal with space around two of the nice new hinges.
I think that they should have made good the old holes with new pieces of
wood and then cut out new holes for the new smaller hinges. if I was
doing it myself thats what I would have done.
All opinions welcome. Ta
--
Diamond
On 8/7/2012 6:57 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> You should know what you are buying before handing over the money.
>> If you don't know the problems that can come up you have a contractor
>> or representative come and look at the situation and explain in
>> detail what the contract will dictate. Again, you do this before
>> handing over the money.
>>
>
> True - but the average consumer would not know to even think of this. If
> they are not familiar with this kind of an issue, they would logically
> assume that the vendor's contractor would well handle any issues. Sure -
> that's an assumption, but we have to make all sorts of assumptions in life
> since none of us can be fully informed in all things.
>
>> I personally would want the old hinge spots repaired however most jobs
>> like this amount to a swap out and therefore the typical pricing does
>> not cover every thing that might need to be done.
>>
>
> You would know better than I what a typical job like this includes, since
> you see more of this kind of work than I do, but I have to admit - if I were
> the OP, I would expect a finished job that did not include left over hinge
> mortises from hinges that were larger than the new ones. At the very least,
> I would expect larger hinges to be installed on the new doors - even if that
> required an uplift.
>
>
First off, I am not pointing out that he is a DA and should have known
better. I am pointing out how it tends to be.
None of us knows everything and many things we learn is from our mistakes.
I just KNEW that the new home that we built/bought should have been
decorated like the model! LOL. Now with that in mind, the contract
did not indicate otherwise but I really did know better. I did not know
that all interior doors would have a sculptured appearance. The model
had these doors however that is normally an upgrade, it was not. I knew
that I would get a fully sodded front and back yard and a tree. I got
much more, lots of bushes, shrubs, and built up beds.
Assume nothing!
Leon wrote:
> On 8/7/2012 6:57 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> You should know what you are buying before handing over the money.
>>> If you don't know the problems that can come up you have a
>>> contractor or representative come and look at the situation and
>>> explain in detail what the contract will dictate. Again, you do
>>> this before handing over the money.
>>>
>>
>> True - but the average consumer would not know to even think of
>> this. If they are not familiar with this kind of an issue, they
>> would logically assume that the vendor's contractor would well
>> handle any issues. Sure - that's an assumption, but we have to make
>> all sorts of assumptions in life since none of us can be fully
>> informed in all things.
>>> I personally would want the old hinge spots repaired however most
>>> jobs like this amount to a swap out and therefore the typical
>>> pricing does not cover every thing that might need to be done.
>>>
>>
>> You would know better than I what a typical job like this includes,
>> since you see more of this kind of work than I do, but I have to
>> admit - if I were the OP, I would expect a finished job that did not
>> include left over hinge mortises from hinges that were larger than
>> the new ones. At the very least, I would expect larger hinges to be
>> installed on the new doors - even if that required an uplift.
>>
>>
>
> First off, I am not pointing out that he is a DA and should have known
> better. I am pointing out how it tends to be.
>
> None of us knows everything and many things we learn is from our
> mistakes.
> I just KNEW that the new home that we built/bought should have been
> decorated like the model! LOL. Now with that in mind, the contract
> did not indicate otherwise but I really did know better. I did not
> know that all interior doors would have a sculptured appearance. The
> model had these doors however that is normally an upgrade, it was
> not. I knew that I would get a fully sodded front and back yard and
> a tree. I got much more, lots of bushes, shrubs, and built up beds.
>
> Assume nothing!
I must have misunderstood your intent Leon. When you said "You should know
what you are buying before handing over the money", I thought you meant he
should have known about this issue before finalizing the deal.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> You should know what you are buying before handing over the money.
> If you don't know the problems that can come up you have a contractor
> or representative come and look at the situation and explain in
> detail what the contract will dictate. Again, you do this before
> handing over the money.
>
True - but the average consumer would not know to even think of this. If
they are not familiar with this kind of an issue, they would logically
assume that the vendor's contractor would well handle any issues. Sure -
that's an assumption, but we have to make all sorts of assumptions in life
since none of us can be fully informed in all things.
> I personally would want the old hinge spots repaired however most jobs
> like this amount to a swap out and therefore the typical pricing does
> not cover every thing that might need to be done.
>
You would know better than I what a typical job like this includes, since
you see more of this kind of work than I do, but I have to admit - if I were
the OP, I would expect a finished job that did not include left over hinge
mortises from hinges that were larger than the new ones. At the very least,
I would expect larger hinges to be installed on the new doors - even if that
required an uplift.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 8/6/2012 7:29 PM, Diamond wrote:
> Hi
>
> This is not strictly a DIY question but I hope someone can help or at
> least tell me I am not being unreasonable.
>
> We live in an old house so there are no straight lines. A previous owner
> dipped the internal doors and the glue has all dissolved leaving them
> fragile and unsightly. So we have at great expense purchased new solid
> doors, (Veneer on to a solid composite core.) We decided to also have
> them fitted by the company again at great expense.
>
> Yesterday the fitters arrived and they are subcontractors. They are
> really nice and seem to be competent. However they explained that our
> new doors will be hung on 3 small hinges whilst the old ones were on two
> large ones.
>
> This is my problem. They say they dont make good the door frame that was
> originally cut away to accomodate the old large hinge. They have so far
> fitted a few of the 19 door we have bought. Leaving a really unsightly
> and awkward to deal with space around two of the nice new hinges.
>
> I think that they should have made good the old holes with new pieces of
> wood and then cut out new holes for the new smaller hinges. if I was
> doing it myself thats what I would have done.
>
> All opinions welcome. Ta
>
>
>
You should know what you are buying before handing over the money.
If you don't know the problems that can come up you have a contractor or
representative come and look at the situation and explain in detail what
the contract will dictate. Again, you do this before handing over the
money.
I personally would want the old hinge spots repaired however most jobs
like this amount to a swap out and therefore the typical pricing does
not cover every thing that might need to be done.
Do you recall a schedule that may have indicated, installation starts at
"X" dollars?
On Monday, August 6, 2012 5:29:09 PM UTC-7, Diamond wrote:
> We live in an old house so ... at great expense purchased new solid
>
> doors, (Veneer on to a solid composite core.) We decided to also have
>
> them fitted by the company
Well, the contractors would have mortised in the hinges you want ( the small
ones?), and left gaps. It's possible for them (or anyone) to cut and glue
wood patches for either your old small hinge mortises (hard, because
there's lots of 'em) or for the new hinge mortisess (easier, 'cuz it can be
done in the shop, on the doors without trim in the way).
Basically, though, the best solution was NOT to get doors someone
else's hinge pattern was cut into. It sounds like everybody omitted
the forethought part of the planning. The best solution, if it were
done today, might be: get three hinges per door of a larger hinge
than those originals. Mortise the doors in-shop and mount
the hinges, then line 'em up on site and open up the mortises
on the old jambs to match. That way, the wood at the
edge of the hinges, both on the new doors and on the door jambs, is
sound, undamaged, and cut recently (with today's version of vertical plumb
and aligned).
On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 00:29:09 +0000, Diamond
<[email protected]> wrote:
>This is my problem. They say they dont make good the door frame that was
>originally cut away to accomodate the old large hinge. They have so far
>fitted a few of the 19 door we have bought. Leaving a really unsightly
>and awkward to deal with space around two of the nice new hinges.
>
>I think that they should have made good the old holes with new pieces of
>wood and then cut out new holes for the new smaller hinges. if I was
>doing it myself thats what I would have done.
>
>All opinions welcome. Ta
What does your contract specify? If it just says "hanging doors" you
are getting what you paid for.
A good craftsman would fill the spaces from the old hinges, but if you
did not make that part of the agreement, you are screwed.
If you bought the doors from a big box chain store, they would have no
clue about craftsmanship and quality work. I'd talk to the installers
and see if they are capable of doing the job right and see if you can
strike a deal and pay for the extra labor.
On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 00:29:09 +0000, Diamond
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Hi
>
>This is not strictly a DIY question but I hope someone can help or at
>least tell me I am not being unreasonable.
>
>We live in an old house so there are no straight lines. A previous owner
>dipped the internal doors and the glue has all dissolved leaving them
>fragile and unsightly. So we have at great expense purchased new solid
>doors, (Veneer on to a solid composite core.) We decided to also have
>them fitted by the company again at great expense.
>
>Yesterday the fitters arrived and they are subcontractors. They are
>really nice and seem to be competent. However they explained that our
>new doors will be hung on 3 small hinges whilst the old ones were on two
>large ones.
>
>This is my problem. They say they dont make good the door frame that was
>originally cut away to accomodate the old large hinge. They have so far
>fitted a few of the 19 door we have bought. Leaving a really unsightly
>and awkward to deal with space around two of the nice new hinges.
>
>I think that they should have made good the old holes with new pieces of
>wood and then cut out new holes for the new smaller hinges. if I was
>doing it myself thats what I would have done.
>
>All opinions welcome. Ta
You paid top dollar to the company for new doors. I'd call them and
explain what the subs are doing and request that they either include
new jambs or go with larger pairs of hinges, just like the originals.
Maybe split the costs if you go with new jambs.
But installing triple-hinged doors into unmodified double-hinged jambs
is not doing anyone a service. I wouldn't have it. (That kind of
crap in the shop, barn, or well-house might be fine, but not in the
main house, no matter how old.
--
Another belief of mine: that everyone else my age is an adult,
whereas I am merely in disguise.
-- Margaret Atwood
On Tue, 7 Aug 2012 00:29:09 +0000, Diamond
<[email protected]> wrote:
>This is my problem. They say they dont make good the door frame that was
>originally cut away to accomodate the old large hinge. They have so far
>fitted a few of the 19 door we have bought. Leaving a really unsightly
>and awkward to deal with space around two of the nice new hinges.
Sorry for your problems.
They should make the jambs right.
If we had been approached to do this we would have suggested matching
the existing butt pockets and replaced the hinges with new. Hinge
sizes are fairly consistent, so finding new replacements shouldn't be
a problem even if you needed square corners. Adding the third hinge
would have been your choice but wouldn't have been much trouble
considering the doors have to be fitted anyway.
Thinking about it, if they have the top of the hinges lined up with
the top of the butt pocket it might not be anymore difficult (than
patching) to enlarge the pockets on the doors (and the new one on the
jamb) and get larger hinges. A little more money but it would look
better than the patches. If the jambs are painted, I might go ahead
with the patches.
You probably need to have a conversation with the contractor or the
sub (depending on who you are paying) and see if you can't come to an
agreement.
Mike
On 8/7/2012 7:27 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 8/7/2012 6:57 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> You should know what you are buying before handing over the money.
>>>> If you don't know the problems that can come up you have a
>>>> contractor or representative come and look at the situation and
>>>> explain in detail what the contract will dictate. Again, you do
>>>> this before handing over the money.
>>>>
>>>
>>> True - but the average consumer would not know to even think of
>>> this. If they are not familiar with this kind of an issue, they
>>> would logically assume that the vendor's contractor would well
>>> handle any issues. Sure - that's an assumption, but we have to make
>>> all sorts of assumptions in life since none of us can be fully
>>> informed in all things.
>>>> I personally would want the old hinge spots repaired however most
>>>> jobs like this amount to a swap out and therefore the typical
>>>> pricing does not cover every thing that might need to be done.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You would know better than I what a typical job like this includes,
>>> since you see more of this kind of work than I do, but I have to
>>> admit - if I were the OP, I would expect a finished job that did not
>>> include left over hinge mortises from hinges that were larger than
>>> the new ones. At the very least, I would expect larger hinges to be
>>> installed on the new doors - even if that required an uplift.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> First off, I am not pointing out that he is a DA and should have known
>> better. I am pointing out how it tends to be.
>>
>> None of us knows everything and many things we learn is from our
>> mistakes.
>> I just KNEW that the new home that we built/bought should have been
>> decorated like the model! LOL. Now with that in mind, the contract
>> did not indicate otherwise but I really did know better. I did not
>> know that all interior doors would have a sculptured appearance. The
>> model had these doors however that is normally an upgrade, it was
>> not. I knew that I would get a fully sodded front and back yard and
>> a tree. I got much more, lots of bushes, shrubs, and built up beds.
>>
>> Assume nothing!
>
> I must have misunderstood your intent Leon. When you said "You should know
> what you are buying before handing over the money", I thought you meant he
> should have known about this issue before finalizing the deal.
>
Yes! ;~)
Perhaps had I said, You should "have" known, vs. you should know, it
would have been derogatory.