"Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> I would rabbet the 1x3, glue and screw it to the melamine.
>
> What size rabbet? 1/2"? Or just a shallow 1/4" to create an alignment
> lip and leave more wood for the screws?
>
> Best,
> Christopher
>
>
Your question implies that you want more of your edging wood for your screws
to bite into. you don't want *any* of the screw threads to engage the
edging. It can cause bridging and weaken your joint. Drill appropriate
pilot holes and use wood screws, not drywall screws.
> Thanks for the quick response. Can screws potentially pull loose and ream
> out the particle board? Any suggestions to minimize this possibility?
Mitigate that possibility with more screw and less torque. Use a 2.5"
screw, into a pilot hole. You don't want the melamine to deform. If you have
a cordless drill with a clutch, use it with just enough clutch to fully set
the screw.
And yes to glue.
-Steve
On Oct 15, 5:11=A0pm, "Artemus" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
> :<snip>
> : TB III will stick to the
> : melamine. =A0I found that out the hard way and when I pried the wood aw=
ay from
> : the melamine the melamine chipped loose and now I see the underlying MD=
F.
> :
> I've had poor results trying to get glue to stick to melamine. =A0I'll ha=
ve to try TB3.
> Did you do anything to the melamine first? =A0Like scratching w/ sandpape=
r or
> cleaning with acetone or ... ?
> Art
There are lacquer based adhesives formulated to stick to melamine. One
of the surfaces must be porous... such as regular wood.
Melamine comes in many different grades as well. It is measure in
grams per square area. Cheap stuff is 80 gram, good stuff is 12 gram.
A very noticeable difference. Also, the PB cores vary greatly from one
manufacturer to another.
So, on one end of the spectrum you have crap PB with 80 gram melamine,
on the other end a quality core with 120 gram melamine. Completely
different beasts.
Ask your suppliers.
On Oct 15, 11:45=A0am, "Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote:
" What is an ideal method to frame a simple workshop table made from
1" melamine particle board and 1x3? =A0Screws/glue? "Can screws
potentially pull loose and ream out the particle board? " Christopher
First off, what do you mean by "frame?"
Upon the assumption that you mean to wrap the perimeter with the 1 x 3
material which one assumes is solid wood, one still needs to know the
intended orientation planned for the 1 x 3 material relative to the
sheet of Melamine coated particle board. If the orientation is
perpendicular to the plane of the Melamine screws would certainly be
feasible whereas going through the 3" to get to the Melamine would not
be IMHO.
Now, if you were cutting a rabbit into the 1 x 3" material so that it
formed both edging and support, screws could be used.
But, glue would be used were I building the thing with finish nails
(as I have a nice pneumatic finish nail gun). Of course, I only have a
vision in my head of what I think you have in yours and that may make
the discussion frustrating on both ends.
:
> I use my TS extensions for assembly too. I guess that keeping them well
> waxed
> has kept me from experiencing what you did.
Ditto.
My outfeed is melamine w/ a 2x3 (milled flat to about 1.25") apron.
I too use it for assembly. Some day I will thicken the aprons for more
clamping surface at the perimeter.
-Steve
> You got a good one, then.
> Mine was definitely built on a Friday afternoon, as it's one of the
> worst built things I've ever seen. Nothing about the 1x3 frame is square
> or flush.
Mine is so flush and smooth, it appears that the top was reduced flush and
sanded on a machine. Apparently, I got the Tueday mornng copy.
Best,
Christopher
> I'm just curious.
Sure, I'll post a photo. This description may help in the interim. Build a
rectangle using 1x3, with the 1x3 standing on edge. Add three 1x3 cross
members, again standing edge. Then, glue 1" melamine mdf table top *on top*
of the 1x3 lattice structure (mdf particles are still visible around the
sides of the mdf). The structure now stands 4" high. When you run your
hand across the 1x3-mdf seam transition with your eyes closed, it feels like
a very smooth 1x4. I suppose this could be constructed on jig, but it feels
like the material was reduced after gluing.
These precise edges make sense, because this Delta top is designed to line
up perfectly with the cast iron and other components. It's ten years old if
that means anything. :)
Best,
Christopher
Christopher Glaeser wrote:
>> Either or both.
>
> Thanks for the quick response. Can screws potentially pull loose and
> ream out the particle board? Any suggestions to minimize this
> possibility? (e.g. recommended screw length and size)?
How are the screws going to pull out? All they are doing is holding on the
edging, you going to be beating or prying on it?
If it were me, I'd put a bead of yellow glue on the particle board edge then
screw in enough 1 1/2"X8 screws (counterbored 1/4-3/8) to hold the edging
until the glue dries. Be sure to drill pilot holes so the screws don't
wedge and break the particle board...it isn't very strong.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
> How are the screws going to pull out? All they are doing is holding on
> the edging, you going to be beating or prying on it?
Nothing abusive. I wanted to build a folding outfeed table described in
another thread, and the 1x3 need only be strong enough to lift the table
into position.
Best,
Christopher
On Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:49:49 -0500, "Leon" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Artemus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> :<snip>
>> : TB III will stick to the
>> : melamine. I found that out the hard way and when I pried the wood away
>> from
>> : the melamine the melamine chipped loose and now I see the underlying
>> MDF.
>> :
>> I've had poor results trying to get glue to stick to melamine. I'll have
>> to try TB3.
>> Did you do anything to the melamine first? Like scratching w/ sandpaper
>> or
>> cleaning with acetone or ... ?
>> Art
>
>
>LOL... This is real scientific what I am about to tell you.
>
>I was doing a glue up on top of my Melamine TS extension table and I used a
>clamp to hold the pieces down to the table top. This sat over night and
>apparently there was some TBIII ooze out between the wood and the melamine
>surface. Removing the clamp the next morning did not release the work from
>the Melamine surface. Twisting the wood resulted in a "pop" and small
>pieces of Melamine stuck to the wood. No, I did nothing special to the
>surface but probably should have put some paper under the joint.
>
LOL
Been there, done that!
Gordon Shumway
One positive thing about 'Cash for Clunkers' is that
it took thousands of Obama bumper stickers off the road.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
:<snip>
: TB III will stick to the
: melamine. I found that out the hard way and when I pried the wood away from
: the melamine the melamine chipped loose and now I see the underlying MDF.
:
I've had poor results trying to get glue to stick to melamine. I'll have to try TB3.
Did you do anything to the melamine first? Like scratching w/ sandpaper or
cleaning with acetone or ... ?
Art
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
:
: "Artemus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: news:[email protected]...
: >
: > "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
: > news:[email protected]...
: > :<snip>
: > : TB III will stick to the
: > : melamine. I found that out the hard way and when I pried the wood away
: > from
: > : the melamine the melamine chipped loose and now I see the underlying
: > MDF.
: > :
: > I've had poor results trying to get glue to stick to melamine. I'll have
: > to try TB3.
: > Did you do anything to the melamine first? Like scratching w/ sandpaper
: > or
: > cleaning with acetone or ... ?
: > Art
:
:
: LOL... This is real scientific what I am about to tell you.
:
: I was doing a glue up on top of my Melamine TS extension table and I used a
: clamp to hold the pieces down to the table top. This sat over night and
: apparently there was some TBIII ooze out between the wood and the melamine
: surface. Removing the clamp the next morning did not release the work from
: the Melamine surface. Twisting the wood resulted in a "pop" and small
: pieces of Melamine stuck to the wood. No, I did nothing special to the
: surface but probably should have put some paper under the joint.
:
I use my TS extensions for assembly too. I guess that keeping them well waxed
has kept me from experiencing what you did.
I have some melamine scraps that I'll so some TB3 tests on.
Thanks to Robatoy too. I'll check that out.
Art
Christopher Glaeser wrote:
>> you don't want *any* of the screw threads to engage the edging.
>
> Thanks! A king must know these things.
>
> I just crawled under my exsiting Delta contractors saw and I noticed three
> features regarding the melamine right extension table.
>
> 1) the 1x3 support lattice is under the melamine (not framed around the
> melamine).
>
> 2) there does not appear to be any screws, unless they applied the melamine
> to the mdf after the mdf was screwed to the support lattice. Do you suppose
> the 1x3 support lattice is attached to the underside of the mdf with glue
> only, or did I miss a construction detail?
>
> 3) the melamine top is extremely flush with the 1x3 support lattice at the
> edges. Did they cut or reduce the melamine table top after it was secured
> to the support lattice? The MDF is very smooth at the edges. How was that
> accomplished?
>
> Best,
> Christopher
>
You got a good one, then.
Mine was definitely built on a Friday afternoon, as it's one of the
worst built things I've ever seen. Nothing about the 1x3 frame is square
or flush.
I almost rebuilt the thing, but then I figured I don't really care,
because it's underneath and just there to hold up the melamine top, but
I certainly would expect more from.... wait a sec. No, I don't expect
more from "American" tool companies, anymore.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Christopher Glaeser wrote:
>> You got a good one, then.
>> Mine was definitely built on a Friday afternoon, as it's one of the
>> worst built things I've ever seen. Nothing about the 1x3 frame is square
>> or flush.
>
> Mine is so flush and smooth, it appears that the top was reduced flush and
> sanded on a machine. Apparently, I got the Tueday mornng copy.
>
> Best,
> Christopher
>
Yeah, Monday mornings and Friday afternoons are the worst. :-)
I'm having trouble picturing exactly what you're describing.
If you're bored enough, take some pics and post them.
If not, no biggie, I'm just curious.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Christopher Glaeser wrote:
>> I'm just curious.
>
> Sure, I'll post a photo. This description may help in the interim. Build a
> rectangle using 1x3, with the 1x3 standing on edge. Add three 1x3 cross
> members, again standing edge. Then, glue 1" melamine mdf table top *on top*
> of the 1x3 lattice structure (mdf particles are still visible around the
> sides of the mdf). The structure now stands 4" high. When you run your
> hand across the 1x3-mdf seam transition with your eyes closed, it feels like
> a very smooth 1x4. I suppose this could be constructed on jig, but it feels
> like the material was reduced after gluing.
>
No pic necessary, now.
On mine, the mdf has laminated sides as well as top, so that was causing
my brainfart.
And it looks like someone put the frame together one-handed, while
posting in here with the other. :-)
> These precise edges make sense, because this Delta top is designed to line
> up perfectly with the cast iron and other components. It's ten years old if
> that means anything. :)
>
It may. Those components may have been made here, instead of overseas,
then. Or they've automated the process.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
"Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What is an ideal method to frame a simple workshop table made from 1"
> melamine particle board and 1x3? Screws/glue?
>
> Best,
> Christopher
>
>
I would rabbet the 1x3, glue and screw it to the melamine.
"Christopher Glaeser" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> I would rabbet the 1x3, glue and screw it to the melamine.
>
> What size rabbet? 1/2"? Or just a shallow 1/4" to create an alignment
> lip and leave more wood for the screws?
>
> Best,
> Christopher
>
>
It would not really matter, if you are concerned with strength of the 1x3 I
certainly would not go any deeper than 3/8" but the rabbet would be more for
indexing and a little extra glue surface. TB III will stick to the
melamine. I found that out the hard way and when I pried the wood away from
the melamine the melamine chipped loose and now I see the underlying MDF.
> you don't want *any* of the screw threads to engage the edging.
Thanks! A king must know these things.
I just crawled under my exsiting Delta contractors saw and I noticed three
features regarding the melamine right extension table.
1) the 1x3 support lattice is under the melamine (not framed around the
melamine).
2) there does not appear to be any screws, unless they applied the melamine
to the mdf after the mdf was screwed to the support lattice. Do you suppose
the 1x3 support lattice is attached to the underside of the mdf with glue
only, or did I miss a construction detail?
3) the melamine top is extremely flush with the 1x3 support lattice at the
edges. Did they cut or reduce the melamine table top after it was secured
to the support lattice? The MDF is very smooth at the edges. How was that
accomplished?
Best,
Christopher
I think you are over-thinking this.
Just because a product is commercialy built does not bmean that it is well
built. In fact the best way would be high-pressure laminate (e.g., formica)
rather than melamine.
IMHO, a perimeter aprom would be a better design to protect the brittle
melamine edge.
Ther are fancy melamine-specific glues. Yes, they probably just glued on the
lattice.
Smooth edges are made with with good quality blades on good quality
machines. Sanding can get you there too.
Flush edges could be done with a piloted bit but I doubt it. They probably
just have a well-designed fixture for clamping the assembly together.
-STeve
>
> 1) the 1x3 support lattice is under the melamine (not framed around the
> melamine).
>
> 2) there does not appear to be any screws, unless they applied the
> melamine to the mdf after the mdf was screwed to the support lattice. Do
> you suppose the 1x3 support lattice is attached to the underside of the
> mdf with glue only, or did I miss a construction detail?
>
> 3) the melamine top is extremely flush with the 1x3 support lattice at the
> edges. Did they cut or reduce the melamine table top after it was secured
> to the support lattice? The MDF is very smooth at the edges. How was
> that accomplished?
Christopher Glaeser wrote:
> What is an ideal method to frame a simple workshop table made from 1"
> melamine particle board and 1x3? Screws/glue?
Either or both. Nails would work too. Ditto biscuits. Rubber bands
wouldn't be so good.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"Artemus" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> :<snip>
> : TB III will stick to the
> : melamine. I found that out the hard way and when I pried the wood away
> from
> : the melamine the melamine chipped loose and now I see the underlying
> MDF.
> :
> I've had poor results trying to get glue to stick to melamine. I'll have
> to try TB3.
> Did you do anything to the melamine first? Like scratching w/ sandpaper
> or
> cleaning with acetone or ... ?
> Art
LOL... This is real scientific what I am about to tell you.
I was doing a glue up on top of my Melamine TS extension table and I used a
clamp to hold the pieces down to the table top. This sat over night and
apparently there was some TBIII ooze out between the wood and the melamine
surface. Removing the clamp the next morning did not release the work from
the Melamine surface. Twisting the wood resulted in a "pop" and small
pieces of Melamine stuck to the wood. No, I did nothing special to the
surface but probably should have put some paper under the joint.