I have some very nice stones, and have been using them on my tools...
I started with my planes and spokeshaves, this was pretty
straightforward. All the stuff available on various websites was very
helpful, and I now have blades that I think are scary sharp: no white
line at the tip, mirror polished, and cut things very nice.
But I have a couple questions.
1. Is it just me, or are chisels (I've moved on to chisels! Some day I
hope to be finished with this initial step of giving everything the
first thorough going over!) much harder to hold than planer blades? I
can't seem to find the bevel by touch as easily as a thin blade. Maybe
it's just that the bevel is so much broader than on a thin blade, and
deviations are more pronounced? The thin blades definitely have some
curve so maybe it's just *easier* to notice when they are off the bevel...
2. Do I keep the slurry on the (water)stone after each use, or wash it
off? I'm cheap, and want to keep it on, but the stones are turning black.
er
--
Well, FWIW, I use one of those little machhines that clamp the plane
blade, OR chisels ata fixed angle. They are about $8-12 at the usual
stores, including the Borg. They have a wheel that rolls on the stone,
while the sharp end of the blade is held at a fixed angle. Once you
sharpen the bevel, and back, increase the angle 3-4 degrees, or so, and
you can put a microbevel on the edge. Even I, a real novice, turn out
chisels or plane blades I can remove hairs with. Hope this helps.
When you flatten your stone, which needs to be more often than you
think, you will, as a result, get the stone completely clean to new
grit. Just flatten more often and you will not have the issue.
Also I'd recommend buying either Rob Cosman's sharpening video, or
Charlesworth's sharpening video. Rob does it by hand, and I learned
the technique from him at a week long hand tool class that was an
awesome experience, and David uses a guide.
Since the class I do it by hand exclusively. But that first initial
sharpening took us HOURS to get the backs flat on those chisels I
brough along.
Alan
"Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
> > "Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>I think I read that about the metal dust, somewhere, but saw an image of
> >>a slurry laden stone and bed... I think in a book. I am using distilled
> >>water--I figured I do, even my cat does, so why not the stone too. I
> >>can only imagine what the hard water would be leaving behind in the
stone.
> >>
> >
> >
> > Well, over a few decades, it might leave some small buildup, but nothing
> > that doesn't simply wipe off. Hard water won't leave anything behind
that
> > will affect sharpening a stone at all.
> >
>
> You sure? We have awful hard water, and I imagine the crystals building
> up to the point their growth overcomes the forces holding the stone
> together.
>
Actually, that's very unlikely. You won't be leaving a lot of water on the
surface and even if you did, it would take a *lot* of water to build up
crystalline structure enough to become a problem. So, even if that
happened, the first time you swiped a knife across it, they would be gone.
It will never develop to the point where it overcomes the forces holding the
stone together - the worst it will do is build up on the surface.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
AAvK wrote:
>>2. Do I keep the slurry on the (water)stone after each use, or wash it
>>off? I'm cheap, and want to keep it on, but the stones are turning black.
> I use norton water stones, and the fake nagura (by Norton as well) was 16.95,
> but that's all they had where I ordered the stones, so I don't blame you.
I have those, too. And I didn't order the nagura stone, either.
> You are collecting metal dust in that slurry which will be a hindrance to
> sharpening effectively while it clogs the stone, Just wash it off in purified
> water when it becomes a bit too gray in color. Tap water has minerals that
> build up over time and you don't want that. And your stones could probably
> use a new surfacing because of the clogging, BTW...
> http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=NO-FLAT&Category_Code=CNO
> Or wet 320 A/O paper on glass (wet/dry type).
I think I read that about the metal dust, somewhere, but saw an image of
a slurry laden stone and bed... I think in a book. I am using distilled
water--I figured I do, even my cat does, so why not the stone too. I
can only imagine what the hard water would be leaving behind in the stone.
About the flattening stone, I was thinking of one of those flat granite
stones would work. Wouldn't it? I could also then use that for other
stuff, precision measurements for metal work.
er
--
arw01 wrote:
> Just flatten more often and you will not have the issue.
These stones cost a mint: I'm going to flatten them as seldom as I can.
Hopefully with the back of a broad chisel, or new plane blade. :)
> Since the class I do it by hand exclusively. But that first initial
> sharpening took us HOURS to get the backs flat on those chisels I
> brough along.
I can only keep at it because I keep telling myself: "it's a one time
thing, and only touch-up thereafter."
er
--
mogura wrote:
> "AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:Esgbf.5052$UF4.4427@fed1read02...
>
>>Just wash it off in purified
>>water when it becomes a bit too gray in color. Tap water has minerals that
>>build up over time and you don't want that.
>
>
> Imagine! You wouldn't want your stone contaminated with minerals!
> Really, waterstones expose a new surface when you sharpen with them. This is
> why they wear down faster than oilstones. I can't imagine that purified
> water would make much of a difference at all.
Well, thie idea is that because the stones are soft, a crystal growing
within the interstitia of the stone are going to first occlude the space
within which they grow, and then find the walls of that space are quite
yielding when they try to grow beyond it.
That's the idea, anyway...
If there's enough calc... chalk. If there's enough chalk deposits, why
shouldn't they also act as the metal filings do, and reduce the
abrasiveness of the stone?
er
--
wondering if I'm any less ignorant than before I started thinking about
this. nope.
> 2. Do I keep the slurry on the (water)stone after each use, or wash it
> off? I'm cheap, and want to keep it on, but the stones are turning black.
>
> er
> --
I use norton water stones, and the fake nagura (by Norton as well) was 16.95,
but that's all they had where I ordered the stones, so I don't blame you.
You are collecting metal dust in that slurry which will be a hindrance to
sharpening effectively while it clogs the stone, Just wash it off in purified
water when it becomes a bit too gray in color. Tap water has minerals that
build up over time and you don't want that. And your stones could probably
use a new surfacing because of the clogging, BTW...
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=NO-FLAT&Category_Code=CNO
Or wet 320 A/O paper on glass (wet/dry type).
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
"AAvK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Esgbf.5052$UF4.4427@fed1read02...
> Just wash it off in purified
> water when it becomes a bit too gray in color. Tap water has minerals that
> build up over time and you don't want that.
Imagine! You wouldn't want your stone contaminated with minerals!
Really, waterstones expose a new surface when you sharpen with them. This is
why they wear down faster than oilstones. I can't imagine that purified
water would make much of a difference at all.
Juergen Hannappel wrote:
> If you keep the stone imersed you don't get crystals, they only grow
> when the water evaporates. If they appear on the surface of the stone
> if that dries up during use they go away with the surface of the stone
> during use or flattening,
I was thinking about all the spaces within the stone. And I do store
them wet, but I don't immerse them.
In fact... I think it was in the Tage Frid book (TFTW) where I read that
keeping them in water they may crumble. That was contradicted
elsewhere, however, and I thought maybe Frid lives somewhere very cold
and he lets his shop get cold at night...
Or maybe he has really hard water where he lives. :)
er
--
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>I think I read that about the metal dust, somewhere, but saw an image of
>>a slurry laden stone and bed... I think in a book. I am using distilled
>>water--I figured I do, even my cat does, so why not the stone too. I
>>can only imagine what the hard water would be leaving behind in the stone.
>>
>
>
> Well, over a few decades, it might leave some small buildup, but nothing
> that doesn't simply wipe off. Hard water won't leave anything behind that
> will affect sharpening a stone at all.
>
You sure? We have awful hard water, and I imagine the crystals building
up to the point their growth overcomes the forces holding the stone
together.
er
--
More likely, he was just guessing. Many, many people leave there waterstones
in a bucket of water with no problem. I do it. I haven't yet developed the
nack of predicting in advance when something is going to get dull and I
won't wait when it does.
"Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In fact... I think it was in the Tage Frid book (TFTW) where I read that
> keeping them in water they may crumble. That was contradicted
> elsewhere, however, and I thought maybe Frid lives somewhere very cold
> and he lets his shop get cold at night...
> --
"Enoch Root" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I think I read that about the metal dust, somewhere, but saw an image of
> a slurry laden stone and bed... I think in a book. I am using distilled
> water--I figured I do, even my cat does, so why not the stone too. I
> can only imagine what the hard water would be leaving behind in the stone.
>
Well, over a few decades, it might leave some small buildup, but nothing
that doesn't simply wipe off. Hard water won't leave anything behind that
will affect sharpening a stone at all.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"CW" <[email protected]> writes:
> More likely, he was just guessing. Many, many people leave there waterstones
> in a bucket of water with no problem. I do it. I haven't yet developed the
> nack of predicting in advance when something is going to get dull and I
> won't wait when it does.
1) Don't let the water freeze
2) Immersing stones in water isn't a good idea if they come
with a wooden base.
--
Sending unsolicited commercial e-mail to this account incurs a fee of
$500 per message, and acknowledges the legality of this contract.
> Well, thie idea is that because the stones are soft, a crystal growing
> within the interstitia of the stone are going to first occlude the space
> within which they grow, and then find the walls of that space are quite
> yielding when they try to grow beyond it.
>
> That's the idea, anyway...
>
> If there's enough calc... chalk. If there's enough chalk deposits, why
> shouldn't they also act as the metal filings do, and reduce the
> abrasiveness of the stone?
>
>
You have it exactly as my thoughts. Though like others suggest, it could
hardly matter.
You didn't buy the Nagura stone? You should because it cleans the ground
metal "caking" build-up off of the stone surface and creates the needed slurry
for higher grit stones. Thought of using simple chalk. which would no doubt
work fine for slurry, but I think not hard enough to clean the stone, this I will
try out.
But, you have to get the idea that leaving the metal grit on the stone is
absolutely no good. Nagura lasts long enough for the money and it comes in
all grades and prices, you can find it cheap from artificial to natural, there's
some on eBay.
--
Alex - "newbie_neander" woodworker
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/
Enoch Root <[email protected]> writes:
[...]
> You sure? We have awful hard water, and I imagine the crystals building
> up to the point their growth overcomes the forces holding the stone
> together.
If you keep the stone imersed you don't get crystals, they only grow
when the water evaporates. If they appear on the surface of the stone
if that dries up during use they go away with the surface of the stone
during use or flattening,
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23