Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Enjoy
>
> Lew
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> The Last Word - Rewriting the Romney cheerleaders
>
>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahsiPdvpEJM&feature=player_embedded
Why a rewrite? They read the "tea leaves" and came to their conclusions.
The "wonk" on MSNBC is gloating, something a real journalist would never
do, but that was MSNBC.
As for Obama being reelected, no, I really do not like it. However, a part
of me sees this as poetic justice. He has had a major hand in creating, and
continuing to create, the current mess. Its only right that the rewards of
his first four years fall into his lap for the second four.
Deb
On 11/11/2012 11:43 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> It's been replaced everywhere by a mix of
> capitalism and socialism. Most have a little more socialism in the mix
> than we do and some of those, like Germany, Japan, Canada, and more, are
> doing better than we are.
An excellent argument can be made that they are doing better because
they can market to those who don't have that mix. ;)
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per year for
>> that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most people even
>> those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but it is deducted
>> from the SS check.
>
>Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is my
>wife's.
Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:44:22 -0500, Keith Nuttle
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I wonder how long the before the people realize obama has defunded
>Social Security with his cut in the employee's contribution to the
>Social Security "Fund" by about 30% (I believe from 6.4 to 4.4 unsure
>of the decimal numbers) or a total cut of about 15%.
We are borrowing money from China to fix that. Not to worry though,
we'll just spend out way out of debt.
>
>Just for the record I have paid into the system for over 50 years, so I
>don't consider collecting it, welfare. That is what the democrats
>promise when they created the Social Security Insurance system in he
>1930's. (Or were we lied to about that too)
I'm still working full time and I'm taking the SS now. I paid for 50
years too and I'm still paying into it. Doubt I'll ever be ahead but I
certainly don't feel I'm taking advantage of anything. .
>
>As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per year for
>that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most people even
>those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but it is deducted
>from the SS check.
Yes, and I'm still paying into that fund every month also. So, I'm
really paying about $200 a month for Medicare, plus a supplement.
On 11/11/2012 9:39 AM, Dr. Deb wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Enjoy
>>
>> Lew
>> -------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> The Last Word - Rewriting the Romney cheerleaders
>>
>>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahsiPdvpEJM&feature=player_embedded
>
>
> Why a rewrite? They read the "tea leaves" and came to their conclusions.
> The "wonk" on MSNBC is gloating, something a real journalist would never
> do, but that was MSNBC.
>
> As for Obama being reelected, no, I really do not like it. However, a part
> of me sees this as poetic justice. He has had a major hand in creating, and
> continuing to create, the current mess. Its only right that the rewards of
> his first four years fall into his lap for the second four.
>
> Deb
>
That may be the way to look at it.
I wonder how long the before the people realize obama has defunded
Social Security with his cut in the employee's contribution to the
Social Security "Fund" by about 30% (I believe from 6.4 to 4.4 unsure
of the decimal numbers) or a total cut of about 15%. Fortunately I am
old enough that I will not be effected in this cut in the funding to my
Social Security check as I will probably die before the effects of the
cut become apparent.
Just for the record I have paid into the system for over 50 years, so I
don't consider collecting it, welfare. That is what the democrats
promise when they created the Social Security Insurance system in he
1930's. (Or were we lied to about that too)
As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per year for
that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most people even
those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but it is deducted
from the SS check. How much will the Coastal City Taker pay?? Where do
you think the 500 billion came from that obama moved from the Medicare
system to pay for their coverage.
It is going to be pure pleasure listen to the Coastal City Taker when
the full load of the medical reform cuts in.
There will be many drug makers who will stop making the expensive low
mark up drugs. (Production cost+Research cost compared to sales price.)
Who will do the expensive research when the companies can no long afford
the luxury.
They are going to be surprised when the cost of band aids, and other
medical devices go up a minimum of 2.3%. If you read the CFR you will
be surprised at what is considered a medical device. If you receive a
drug in a self-application system that is a medical device.
What is really going to be interesting is when they are being taxed for
not having insurance. Remember the Supreme Court Ruling. This is
another thing that obama has covered up, he promised not to increase the
taxes on middle and lower income people. But there it is in black and
white, at tax on the poorest people in the country.
The system that the social democrats and obama have set up, is bound to
fail. It has failed every time it has been tried in the world. The only
economic system that has repeatedly succeeded is the one create by the
participants in oldest profession in the world that is Capitalism.
Unfortunately it took Russia about 70 years to fail, and they are still
struggling to fix the system. Cuba's system failed in about 30 years
but they still will not accept "glorious system" failed. So I will be
long dead when the socialist system in what was the United States fails.
Unfortunately look at the way the people live in those socialist states.
PS: I understand you can get some great old cars from the 40's 50's and
60's in Cuba, a collectors dream.
On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 10:44:22 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
> I wonder how long the before the people realize obama has defunded
> Social Security with his cut in the employee's contribution to the
> Social Security "Fund" by about 30% (I believe from 6.4 to 4.4 unsure
> of the decimal numbers) or a total cut of about 15%. Fortunately I am
> old enough that I will not be effected in this cut in the funding to my
> Social Security check as I will probably die before the effects of the
> cut become apparent.
>
Well, once again we agree - something must be wrong with the universe :-).
>
> There will be many drug makers who will stop making the expensive low
> mark up drugs. (Production cost+Research cost compared to sales price.)
> Who will do the expensive research when the companies can no long afford
> the luxury.
>
I don't know about that. There was a study some time back that said that
something like 80% of drug company "research" was reverse engineering a
competitors product so they could modify it just enough to get their
version patented.
Not to mention the horrendous markup on most non-generic drugs. There's
something unethical about gouging the sick to get rich.
>
> The system that the social democrats and obama have set up, is bound to
> fail. It has failed every time it has been tried in the world. The only
> economic system that has repeatedly succeeded is the one create by the
> participants in oldest profession in the world that is Capitalism.
Repeatedly succeeded? It's been replaced everywhere by a mix of
capitalism and socialism. Most have a little more socialism in the mix
than we do and some of those, like Germany, Japan, Canada, and more, are
doing better than we are.
>
> PS: I understand you can get some great old cars from the 40's 50's and
> 60's in Cuba, a collectors dream.
Yabbut, a lot of those are ForChryolets :-). Sometimes hard to tell how
they started out. Same with motorcycles. But the ingenuity involved in
keeping them running is amazing.
--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.
On 11/11/2012 12:43 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> Repeatedly succeeded? It's been replaced everywhere by a mix of
> capitalism and socialism. Most have a little more socialism in the mix
> than we do and some of those, like Germany, Japan, Canada, and more, are
> doing better than we are.
In the last several thousand years every time the socialist turn their
head or a socialist state has failed a Capitalist state has returned.
Even today is place where socialism is the rule, like Russia, Cuba, etc.
the capitalist i.e black market is keeping the economies going
Keith Nuttle wrote:
> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per year for
> that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most people even
> those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but it is deducted
> from the SS check.
Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is my
wife's.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 11/12/2012 11:13 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> You need to look around a bit. Mine have decreased :) No premium either.
> Double :)
I am currently looking, but my current plan still appears to be a better
fit than the others available for my area. The zero premium plans here
make it hardly worth giving up the basic Medicare.
I momentarily considered simply reverting to basic Medicare, but they
make that damned difficult if you went with a MA during your first 12
months of eligibility. Since I originally went with an MA, any Medigap
insurance would come at a much higher cost ... if you can even get it
without some exclusions they might come up with during the required
physical.
Whoever makes up some of these seemingly arbitrary "rules" most
definitely did not make them to benefit the folks.
A word to those coming up on 65 ... making an informed choice about
Medicare options is NOT something you want to leave until the last minute.
You damned well better start making a massive effort to understand the
options and their nuances ... they can be confusing, and are seemingly
written to trap the unwary.
Get some expert advice, but don't count on anyone being an expert on
your particular situation ... make an effort to understand it first,
before talking to that expert.
Basically, ".... don't try this at home!"
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>
>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per year for
>>> that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most people even
>>> those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but it is deducted
>>> from the SS check.
>>
>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is my
>> wife's.
>
> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B, which IIRC
is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be deducted?
And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which will just about
wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
--
www.ewoodshop.com (Mobile)
On 11/12/2012 7:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
>> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
>
> Nope.
>
> http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
>
But did you read the comment posted by one Dennis Byron? I would
suggest that you do so.
Not saying Mr. Byron is right or wrong, just that, like everything else,
there are two sides (at least) to every story.
Time will tell, but the manner in which this health care plan was run
through (Well, we have to pass it first before we know what it means) if
anyone told me the sun rises in the east and sets in the west - based on
the plan - I'd damn sure want a second opinion<g>
On 11/12/2012 9:19 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>
> While I think it may be prudent of individuals to purchase medical
> insurance I don't like them being required to do so. Yeah, I
> know...the employer is going to provide it. That will either
> increase costs to consumers or the employers will reduce working
> hours low enough so they don't have to purchase it in which case the
> lucky worker will have to buy it out of HIS pocket. Or both.
While I'm sure there will be those employers who dodge the new law by
watching the hours worked, the bigger issue will likely be just ignoring
the law and paying the fine. I have spoken with CPA's who've told me
that their world is all abuzz with that very thought. For many of their
clients - especially the big companies - it will be cheaper (as the law
presently stands - for them to simply say NO! and pay the fine.
You can bet your sweet patootie that aspect of the law will change quickly.
Larry Blanchard, wrote the following at or about 11/12/2012 11:39 AM:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:13:37 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
>
>> Check the prices on some of those cute little motorized chairs sometime.
>> Or diabetic supplies.
>
> Ever price a hearing aid?
>
LOL! How about just a regular wheelchair. My late father required one
towards the end. Medicare paid for it (as did we all). Medicare
requires a lease arrangement for a certain period of time (maybe 18
months, maybe 12). Don't recall the time frame exactly. The way it
worked was if he needed it for that period, the lease was terminated (as
were the payments) and it was his to keep. Terminate the need (or, in
his case, life) and it was returned to the medical supply company.
Whatever the time frame, if he kept it the required time Medicare (read
US) paid ~ $1,960 for that chair.
Imagine my joy when I found that I could go to eBay, click "Buy it Now"
and have the EXACT SAME BRAND & MODEL DELIVERED to his home for less
than $500! No lease, no screwing around. As it was, the medical supply
company took it back (no strings attached) after collecting about $1,600
in "lease" payments from Medicare.
We need government managing this stuff like Custer needed more pissed
off Native Americans!
On 11/12/2012 09:19 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 9:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> Leave that dream world behind, Bubba ...before you find yourself in more
>> need than you planned for. ;)
>
> Summary of the following link ... take it to heart:
>
> "It is critical to understand that a fundamental, nearly intractable,
> doomsday-magnitude fiscal problem with our healthcare spending preceded
> Obamacare, and continues today. That fiscal problem will remain whether
> we proceed with Obamacare or not. Simply striking it down in the courts
> or repealing it will not help fix the underlying problem."
>
> http://covertrationingblog.com/open-wide-and-say-moo-the-good-citizens-guide-to-right-thinking-and-right-actions/chapter-1-run-for-the-hills-as-we-are-all-doomed
>
>
And as a little added confirmation:
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?singlepost=3068772
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
I read this forum it's really nice and informative i really like it i
get most of useful information from it which can prove beneficial for me
i was need some similar post's but i get your post on first search on
Google search engine it's fulfil my need i really appreciate it and keep
it up!!
'gold coast timber supplies' (http://qualitytimber.com.au/)
--
Anderson0
On 11/12/2012 7:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 11/11/2012 7:34 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per
>>>>>> year for that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most
>>>>>> people even those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but
>>>>>> it is deducted from the SS check.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is
>>>>> my wife's.
>>>>
>>>> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
>>>
>>> If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B, which
>>> IIRC is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be deducted?
>>>
>>> And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which will just
>>> about wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
>>>
>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
>> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
>
> Nope.
>
> http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
You can count on that report to be only partially true, and at best a guess.
Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized in part by Fed payments to
the insurance companies that provide it.
Just plain old common sense and a bit of the way the world works
suggests that as those subsidies are decreased, it is a good bet that
the either the cost of Medicare Advantage insurance will go up, or the
benefits will decrease ... probably both.
Basically when dealing with any government program your best bet is to
take the most pessimistic view possible ... you will bear the brunt in
any case, particularly if you are a member of a specific demographic.
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On 11/11/2012 7:34 PM, Swingman wrote:
> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>
>>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per year for
>>>> that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most people even
>>>> those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but it is deducted
>>>> from the SS check.
>>>
>>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is my
>>> wife's.
>>
>> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
>
> If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B, which IIRC
> is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be deducted?
>
> And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which will just about
> wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
>
Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I remember
your advantage plan will soon disappear.
Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 11/11/2012 7:34 PM, Swingman wrote:
>> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per
>>>>> year for that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most
>>>>> people even those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but
>>>>> it is deducted from the SS check.
>>>>
>>>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is
>>>> my wife's.
>>>
>>> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
>>
>> If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B, which
>> IIRC is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be deducted?
>>
>> And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which will just
>> about wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
>>
> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
Nope.
http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On 11/12/2012 8:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 11/11/2012 7:34 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per
>>>>>> year for that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most
>>>>>> people even those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but
>>>>>> it is deducted from the SS check.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is
>>>>> my wife's.
>>>>
>>>> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
>>>
>>> If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B, which
>>> IIRC is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be deducted?
>>>
>>> And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which will just
>>> about wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
>>>
>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
>> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
>
> Nope.
>
> http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
>
Quote from article: ****"There's nothing in the law that cuts back the
Medicare Advantage program in the sense of changing what plans are
authorized," explains Marsha Gold, Sc.D., a senior fellow at Mathematica
Policy Research, a Washington, D.C., research group, and an expert on
Medicare. ****
******"The only thing that's changing is the cost. The plans had been
getting paid a lot more than the traditional Medicare program, and the
Affordable Care Act is slowly trying to reduce that."****
_______________________________________________________________________
"Not eliminate it, slow reduce it until it is not there"
Is that better?
Where do you think obama got the 500 billion to spend for those who are
becoming wards of the federal government with free health insurance?
Swingman wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 7:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>> On 11/11/2012 7:34 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per
>>>>>>> year for that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most
>>>>>>> people even those on Social Security do not know they pay it,
>>>>>>> but it is deducted from the SS check.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither
>>>>>> is my wife's.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
>>>>
>>>> If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B,
>>>> which IIRC is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be deducted?
>>>>
>>>> And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which will just
>>>> about wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
>>>>
>>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
>>> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
>
>
> You can count on that report to be only partially true, and at best a
> guess.
> Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized in part by Fed payments to
> the insurance companies that provide it.
Not in part, totally. An Advantage plan gets a fixed monthly amount per
enrollee. That amount varies state by state, county by county, maybe even
city by city and is determined by the "normal" medical costs for the area.
It is then up to the insurance company to provide the necessary care for the
enrollee at a cost less than what they receive (assuming they want to not go
in the hole). One way they do that is (if they are an HMO) is by limiting
care only to their providers and via their contracts with providers which
may be less than Medicare would pay. That might be one reason why many of
the contracted providers have third world names.
> Just plain old common sense and a bit of the way the world works
> suggests that as those subsidies are decreased, it is a good bet that
> the either the cost of Medicare Advantage insurance will go up, or the
> benefits will decrease ... probably both.
The benefits can't go down. Not, at least, any that Medicare itself
provides because Advantage plans MUST provide the same. They could cut down
on extras like gym memberships, vision, etc.
The plans might certainly charge more (or refund less to the enrollee) but
given the extreme competition among them and the fact that they already
receive a bonus I'm thinking they will do more to curtail costs rather than
increase prices..
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 7:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
>>> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>> http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
>>
>
> But did you read the comment posted by one Dennis Byron? I would
> suggest that you do so.
Yes, I read it.
> Not saying Mr. Byron is right or wrong, just that, like everything
> else, there are two sides (at least) to every story.
In some of his comments at least, he is wrong.
> Time will tell, but the manner in which this health care plan was run
> through (Well, we have to pass it first before we know what it means)
> if anyone told me the sun rises in the east and sets in the west -
> based on the plan - I'd damn sure want a second opinion<g>
Obama Care is already passed and I'm no fan of it. I'm no fan of *ANY*
government edict or law telling individuals what they must or must not do in
their private lives and that includes telling restaurant/bar/business owners
that they cannot allow smoking in their establishment.
While I think it may be prudent of individuals to purchase medical insurance
I don't like them being required to do so. Yeah, I know...the employer is
going to provide it. That will either increase costs to consumers or the
employers will reduce working hours low enough so they don't have to
purchase it in which case the lucky worker will have to buy it out of HIS
pocket. Or both.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Swingman wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 9:04 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2012 7:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>> On 11/11/2012 7:34 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>>> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH"
>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per
>>>>>>>>> year for that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most
>>>>>>>>> people even those on Social Security do not know they
>>>>>>>>> pay it, but it is deducted from the SS check.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither
>>>>>>>> is my wife's.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B,
>>>>>> which IIRC is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be
>>>>>> deducted? And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which
>>>>>> will just
>>>>>> about wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
>>>>>>
>>>>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
>>>>> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
>>>>
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>> http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
>>>
>>>
>>> You can count on that report to be only partially true, and at best
>>> a guess.
>>> Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized in part by Fed payments
>>> to the insurance companies that provide it.
>>
>> Not in part, totally. An Advantage plan gets a fixed monthly amount
>> per enrollee. That amount varies state by state, county by county,
>> maybe even city by city and is determined by the "normal" medical
>> costs for the area.
>
> Actually what I said above is a unarguable FACT ... meaning you can
> semantically argue all you want, but you are still not denying the
> FACT that "Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized in part by Fed
> payments to the insurance companies that provide it". :)
>
>> It is then up to the insurance company to provide the necessary care
>> for the enrollee at a cost less than what they receive (assuming
>> they want to not go in the hole). One way they do that is (if they
>> are an HMO) is by limiting care only to their providers and via
>> their contracts with providers which may be less than Medicare would
>> pay. That might be one reason why many of the contracted providers
>> have third world names.
>
> If pigs had wings ....
>
>>> Just plain old common sense and a bit of the way the world works
>>> suggests that as those subsidies are decreased, it is a good bet
>>> that the either the cost of Medicare Advantage insurance will go
>>> up, or the benefits will decrease ... probably both.
>>
>> The benefits can't go down. Not, at least, any that Medicare itself
>> provides because Advantage plans MUST provide the same. They could
>> cut down on extras like gym memberships, vision, etc.
>
> Wishful thinking (with a bit of dissembling thrown in an attempt to
> justify a position?)
>
> The "Maximum Out of Pocket" amount is a "benefit" of an insurance
> plan.
> A "Co-pay" amount for services, drugs, etc are "benefits" of an
> insurance plan.
>
> When the cost of these key benefits to a policy holder INCREASE,
> meaning the policy holder pays more "out of pocket" and more in
> "copays", the insurance company is indeed REDUCING "benefits".
>
> Another unarguable FACT. :)
>
> Case in point: Each of the above has increased a minimum of 18 to 20%
> on my particular MA from 2012 to 2013, not including the 12% increase
> from 2012 to 2012 in the premium.
You need to look around a bit. Mine have decreased :) No premium either.
Double :)
_____________
>> The plans might certainly charge more (or refund less to the
>> enrollee) but given the extreme competition among them and the fact
>> that they already receive a bonus I'm thinking they will do more to
>> curtail costs rather than increase prices..
>
> LOL ... and how does an insurance company curtail costs?? ... by
> increasing premiums and reducing "benefits".
The benefits have ancillary costs.
If I were an insurance company I'd be looking into how much some of the
providers charge. Many are getting fat. Very fat. That is especially true
of some specialists as they get paid by procedure...the more procedures they
do the more they make.
It is also true in that economic wasteland known as "durable medical
equipment" as provided to users. Check the prices on some of those cute
little motorized chairs sometime. Or diabetic supplies. I imagine you have
seen the TV commercials by "someone famous" explaining how the company they
are pitching "will deliver them right to your door at no cost to you". They
sure will...they will also automatically continue doing so at frequent
intervals whether you need/want them or not. I am told that there are
people busily selling all that excess.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Swingman wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 9:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> Leave that dream world behind, Bubba ...before you find yourself in
>> more need than you planned for. ;)
>
> Summary of the following link ... take it to heart:
>
> "It is critical to understand that a fundamental, nearly intractable,
> doomsday-magnitude fiscal problem with our healthcare spending
> preceded Obamacare, and continues today. That fiscal problem will
> remain whether we proceed with Obamacare or not. Simply striking it
> down in the courts or repealing it will not help fix the underlying
> problem."
Oh, I agree totally. I disliked the idea from the git-go but good ol'
Lyndon wanted to go down in history.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:55:00 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> ******"The only thing that's changing is the cost. The plans had been
> getting paid a lot more than the traditional Medicare program, and the
> Affordable Care Act is slowly trying to reduce that."****
MedAdvantage is an HMO under another name. Bush set them up and paid
them more in the hopes that the HMO model would reduce Medicare costs.
At least that's the charitable conclusion. There are those that suggest
he was just repaying his contributors by giving them another path to
fleece the elderly.
Obama says that they should be paid no more than regular Medicare. Since
they make out by restricting service as per HMO practices, I think that's
fair.
--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.
On 11/12/2012 10:19 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> Unquestionably Confused wrote:
>> On 11/12/2012 7:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>>>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
> Obama Care is already passed and I'm no fan of it. I'm no fan of *ANY*
> government edict or law telling individuals what they must or must not do in
> their private lives and that includes telling restaurant/bar/business owners
> that they cannot allow smoking in their establishment.
>
> While I think it may be prudent of individuals to purchase medical insurance
> I don't like them being required to do so. Yeah, I know...the employer is
> going to provide it. That will either increase costs to consumers or the
> employers will reduce working hours low enough so they don't have to
> purchase it in which case the lucky worker will have to buy it out of HIS
> pocket. Or both.
>
As I understand it is not only the employed that must have insurance it
is also those people who are unemployed, have give up finding a job, and
those that never have been employed
On 11/12/2012 12:13 PM, dadiOH wrote:
> The benefits have ancillary costs.
>
> If I were an insurance company I'd be looking into how much some of the
> providers charge. Many are getting fat. Very fat. That is especially true
> of some specialists as they get paid by procedure...the more procedures they
> do the more they make.
>
> It is also true in that economic wasteland known as "durable medical
> equipment" as provided to users. Check the prices on some of those cute
> little motorized chairs sometime. Or diabetic supplies. I imagine you have
> seen the TV commercials by "someone famous" explaining how the company they
> are pitching "will deliver them right to your door at no cost to you". They
> sure will...they will also automatically continue doing so at frequent
> intervals whether you need/want them or not. I am told that there are
> people busily selling all that excess.
>
>
Under the obama plan the cost of all of those items are going up 2.3%
since they are all medical devices. The cost of compliance to the
current federal regulation FDA, OSHA, EPA, is adding 10 to 30% to the
cost of item manufactured by the medical industry. I know from
companies that I have worked for the Regulatory groups consisted of over
30% of the work force.
You want to cut the cost for the medical industry, Cut the OSHA, EPA and
the FDA, their cost is much more that their contributions.
My favorite is the current government requirement require all street
signs to be changed because they don't have the proper mix of upper and
lower case letters. Is that really a government concern?
I wish you could read some of the FDA audits I have seen and the
nitpicky things they wrote up. Each observation requires hours of time
developing a response, implemented it and monitoring it for compliance.
Regulation does not make a safe product, personal responsibility does,
of course no one is responsible for any thing under obama, where
everything is President Bush's fault.
On 11/12/2012 12:36 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:55:00 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> ******"The only thing that's changing is the cost. The plans had been
>> getting paid a lot more than the traditional Medicare program, and the
>> Affordable Care Act is slowly trying to reduce that."****
>
> MedAdvantage is an HMO under another name. Bush set them up and paid
> them more in the hopes that the HMO model would reduce Medicare costs.
>
> At least that's the charitable conclusion. There are those that suggest
> he was just repaying his contributors by giving them another path to
> fleece the elderly.
>
> Obama says that they should be paid no more than regular Medicare. Since
> they make out by restricting service as per HMO practices, I think that's
> fair.
>
Since you made the statement about "fleecing the elderly", it is obvious
you are less than 40 and have never had any dealings with the Med
Advantage plans. All you hear about is the donut hole. However the
donut hole is insignificant for those people who were paying 1000/month
for drugs before the Advantage plans.( a little over a month and they
are through it) The plans made the difference between having the money
to live or the pistol.
Seeing it work it it is one of the most successful medical plans ever
implemented by the Government.
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:13:37 -0500, dadiOH wrote:
>
>> Check the prices on some of those cute little motorized chairs
>> sometime. Or diabetic supplies.
>
> Ever price a hearing aid?
Those too. Ridiculous prices. Have you noticed that the vendors of same
tend to take full page newspaper ads?
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 09:55:00 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> ******"The only thing that's changing is the cost. The plans had been
>> getting paid a lot more than the traditional Medicare program, and
>> the Affordable Care Act is slowly trying to reduce that."****
>
> MedAdvantage is an HMO under another name.
Not necessarily. There are numerous structures.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:46:43 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote:
> Since you made the statement about "fleecing the elderly", it is obvious
> you are less than 40 and have never had any dealings with the Med
> Advantage plans.
Keith, thank you for my laugh of the day. Talk about unwarranted
assumptions!
I'm 75. I went from regular Medicare with a supplement to a MedAdvantage
plan for two years - then I went back. So despite your assumption, I do
know whereof I speak.
Better luck next time :-).
--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.
On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:15:26 -0600, Swingman wrote:
> I momentarily considered simply reverting to basic Medicare, but they
> make that damned difficult if you went with a MA during your first 12
> months of eligibility. Since I originally went with an MA, any Medigap
> insurance would come at a much higher cost ... if you can even get it
> without some exclusions they might come up with during the required
> physical.
The rules must have changed since I reverted. IIRC, the insurer *could*
require a physical, but mine did not. And my cost was the same as
everyone else's for the company I chose, as is required - policies are
either age-rated or community-rated.
If you don't believe me, see:
<https://medicare.gov/find-a-plan/staticpages/learn/how-insurance-
companies-price-policies.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1>
The above explains the pricing, but does not address the reversion
issue. I couldn't find anything definitive on that, but there was some
indications that your rights might vary from state to state.
--
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and
carrying a cross.
On 11/12/2012 7:03 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 13:46:43 -0500, Keith Nuttle wrote:
>
>> Since you made the statement about "fleecing the elderly", it is obvious
>> you are less than 40 and have never had any dealings with the Med
>> Advantage plans.
>
> Keith, thank you for my laugh of the day. Talk about unwarranted
> assumptions!
>
> I'm 75. I went from regular Medicare with a supplement to a MedAdvantage
> plan for two years - then I went back. So despite your assumption, I do
> know whereof I speak.
>
> Better luck next time :-).
>
I Worked with my mother and her finances for 10 year until she died and
only know what it meant to her.
On 11/12/2012 9:04 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 11/12/2012 7:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>> On 11/11/2012 7:34 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>>>> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per
>>>>>>>> year for that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most
>>>>>>>> people even those on Social Security do not know they pay it,
>>>>>>>> but it is deducted from the SS check.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither
>>>>>>> is my wife's.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
>>>>>
>>>>> If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B,
>>>>> which IIRC is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be deducted?
>>>>>
>>>>> And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which will just
>>>>> about wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
>>>>>
>>>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
>>>> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
>>>
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>> http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
>>
>>
>> You can count on that report to be only partially true, and at best a
>> guess.
>> Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized in part by Fed payments to
>> the insurance companies that provide it.
>
> Not in part, totally. An Advantage plan gets a fixed monthly amount per
> enrollee. That amount varies state by state, county by county, maybe even
> city by city and is determined by the "normal" medical costs for the area.
Actually what I said above is a unarguable FACT ... meaning you can
semantically argue all you want, but you are still not denying the FACT
that "Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized in part by Fed payments
to the insurance companies that provide it". :)
> It is then up to the insurance company to provide the necessary care for the
> enrollee at a cost less than what they receive (assuming they want to not go
> in the hole). One way they do that is (if they are an HMO) is by limiting
> care only to their providers and via their contracts with providers which
> may be less than Medicare would pay. That might be one reason why many of
> the contracted providers have third world names.
If pigs had wings ....
>> Just plain old common sense and a bit of the way the world works
>> suggests that as those subsidies are decreased, it is a good bet that
>> the either the cost of Medicare Advantage insurance will go up, or the
>> benefits will decrease ... probably both.
>
> The benefits can't go down. Not, at least, any that Medicare itself
> provides because Advantage plans MUST provide the same. They could cut down
> on extras like gym memberships, vision, etc.
Wishful thinking (with a bit of dissembling thrown in an attempt to
justify a position?)
The "Maximum Out of Pocket" amount is a "benefit" of an insurance plan.
A "Co-pay" amount for services, drugs, etc are "benefits" of an
insurance plan.
When the cost of these key benefits to a policy holder INCREASE, meaning
the policy holder pays more "out of pocket" and more in "copays", the
insurance company is indeed REDUCING "benefits".
Another unarguable FACT. :)
Case in point: Each of the above has increased a minimum of 18 to 20% on
my particular MA from 2012 to 2013, not including the 12% increase from
2012 to 2012 in the premium.
IOW, the premium has increased, and the "benefits" of the plan have
decreased.
That 500 billion+ the AHCA is taking from Medicare has to come from
somewhere, and in reality it comes from an increase in premiums AND a
decrease in benefits of Medicare Advantage plans.
You can disagree now, but trust me ... you will feel the pain eventually.
> The plans might certainly charge more (or refund less to the enrollee) but
> given the extreme competition among them and the fact that they already
> receive a bonus I'm thinking they will do more to curtail costs rather than
> increase prices..
LOL ... and how does an insurance company curtail costs?? ... by
increasing premiums and reducing "benefits".
Go figure ... :)
Leave that dream world behind, Bubba ...before you find yourself in more
need than you planned for. ;)
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
On 11/12/2012 9:39 AM, Swingman wrote:
> Leave that dream world behind, Bubba ...before you find yourself in more
> need than you planned for. ;)
Summary of the following link ... take it to heart:
"It is critical to understand that a fundamental, nearly intractable,
doomsday-magnitude fiscal problem with our healthcare spending preceded
Obamacare, and continues today. That fiscal problem will remain whether
we proceed with Obamacare or not. Simply striking it down in the courts
or repealing it will not help fix the underlying problem."
http://covertrationingblog.com/open-wide-and-say-moo-the-good-citizens-guide-to-right-thinking-and-right-actions/chapter-1-run-for-the-hills-as-we-are-all-doomed
--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop
"Swingman" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On 11/12/2012 7:28 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 11/11/2012 7:34 PM, Swingman wrote:
>>> Gordon Shumway <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per
>>>>>> year for that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most
>>>>>> people even those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but
>>>>>> it is deducted from the SS check.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is
>>>>> my wife's.
>>>>
>>>> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
>>>
>>> If it's Part B I'd like to know myself. I thought that Part B, which
>>> IIRC is mandatory to get the other parts, had to be deducted?
>>>
>>> And, its supposed to go up another $7 in January, which will just
>>> about wipe out the proposed COLA. Bastards ....
>>>
>> Welcome to the deceptive world of the obama medical plan. As I
>> remember your advantage plan will soon disappear.
>
> Nope.
>
> http://news.consumerreports.org/health/2012/10/medicare-open-enrollment-will-obamacare-end-medicare-advantage-1.html
You can count on that report to be only partially true, and at best a guess.
Medicare Advantage insurance is subsidized in part by Fed payments to
the insurance companies that provide it.
Just plain old common sense and a bit of the way the world works
suggests that as those subsidies are decreased, it is a good bet that
the either the cost of Medicare Advantage insurance will go up, or the
benefits will decrease ... probably both.
Basically when dealing with any government program your best bet is to
take the most pessimistic view possible ... you will bear the brunt in
any case, particularly if you are a member of a specific demographic.
Funny, that's exactly how I view the insurance industry. December 01
will be the 24th month I've been w/o health insurance. Since I fired the
Assurant Health crooks I've saved ~$40k [not counting the automatic premium
increase that would have kicked in December 01, 2011] and, hopefully,
reduced their CEO's compensation package in the process. In those 24 months
I've been to the doctor exactly twice, both times for yearly physicals.
Dave in Texas
Gordon Shumway wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 15:13:40 -0500, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>
>>> As for the Medicare that I receive I am paying over %1200 per year
>>> for that insurance plus the private insurance I care. Most people
>>> even those on Social Security do not know they pay it, but it is
>>> deducted from the SS check.
>>
>> Just FYI, it does not have to be. Mine isn't deducted, neither is my
>> wife's.
>
> Can you explain how it isn't deducted?
By using a Medicare Advantage plan. Not all of same return the deduction
but many do, in full. Some return part, some return none, some even charge
an additional amount. I choose one that returns the full amount.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&tbo=u&biw=874&bih=547&q=medicare+advantage&tbs=dfn:1&sa=X&ei=PPigUOSuF4W08ATijoGAAg&ved=0CEQQkQ4
http://www.medicare.gov/sign-up-change-plans/medicare-health-plans/medicare-advantage-plans/medicare-advantage-plans.html
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Maybe just ready for a change? Check it out...
http://www.floridaloghouse.net