On 9/29/2013 5:31 PM, axolotl wrote:
> On 9/29/2013 11:16 AM, woodchucker wrote:
>
>> What makes you think that the holes for the pins were not insulated?
>> There were many methods of insulating that did not require plastic,
>> mica, some form of cardboard (but not really a cardboard) , nylon,
>> rubber, epoxy , wood...
>>
>
> 1) The picture shows no insulation.
>
> 2) The picture shows no wires connecting to the electrodes.
>
> Kevin Gallimore
>
>
The pic does not show multiple views. So there is no way of telling.
Seems like a slow way of taking a reading to remove it, I envision some
insulator and just attaching alligator clips.
But then again, it might very well be used by removing the pins..
--
Jeff
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:07:46 -0400, woodchucker wrote:
> There is also a scanning moisture meter these days. What you neglect to
> consider is that the moisture in the wood is not just pure water.
> Trees have some sugar to them. Some more than others. Resin.
>
>
> Now don't fret, many of us rely on the moisture content... some don't.
> Take care Theo
Greetings, all. I was in the "lurking" phase before joining this group
because I am retired now and have vague ideas about finishing my basement.
I intended to wait a few weeks before exposing myself here, to learn the
vocabulary and group norms. (& outspoken personalities, etc.)
But I just could not resist the idea that came into my head about using
magnetic resonance imaging to measure water content in wood. Of course, not
very many people have a few million dollars to spare, a workshop with a few
hundred cubic meters of spare space, and a few kilowatts of spare fusebox
capacity.
Then it struck me like a cartoon "light bulb" balloon. You don't need to do
MRI! You can do molecular microwave resonance measurements using a
microwave oven, which is already tuned for the water molecule.
All you need to do is put a fixed quantity of water at a known temperature
(i.e. exacly 100 ml of water at exactly 0 C) along with your piece of wood.
Then you fire up the oven for a fixed time, (i.e. exacly 100 seconds) and
measure the resultant temperature of the water. If you know the effective
power of your magnetron[1], you should be able to easily calculate the
fraction of the total water content in the oven as it is divided between
your wood piece and the container with the liquid water.
If you are worried about damaging the wood, just use a smaller time period.
The result will be less accurate of course.
[1] You can calculate it just by seeing how long it takes to boil the water
when there is no wood in the oven.
--
http://pages.videotron.com/duffym/index.htm
On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:55:07 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Or - you could just go buy dimensional lumber at your local Big Box store,
> and simply build the project at hand.
I take it then that water content is not something considered important? I
must admit that I am new at this. Perhaps it is only important when you are
working with naturally-procured wood. Is the big-box material usually
pre-conditioned to be at a fairly consistent water content? Should wood be
expected to warp and develop cracks as it ages?
--
http://pages.videotron.com/duffym/index.htm
On 9/29/2013 11:01 AM, axolotl wrote:
> On 9/29/2013 9:33 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>>> Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
>>> testing moisture content in wood. I don't think that device shown it
>>> would work that way, because there are no provisions for insulating the
>>> two pins from the metal holder. And the black screws coming in from the
>>> sides are to secure the points in the holder, not to connect wires.
>>> (Brass screws would be more likely to be used for electrical
>>> connections, and they would still require the insulation of both the
>>> pins and the screws from the holder.
>>>
>>> Enjoy,
>>> DoN.
>>
>>
>> You make some good points on this one, the photos were sent in by a
>> visitor of
>> the
>> site so I don't have it in my possession. I think it was marked as
>> being part of
>> a
>> moisture meter when he bought it but I'll pass along your reservations
>> and see
>> what he says.
>>
>
> I think the object in question predates high impact plastic; one would
> remove the driver and attach connectors to the electrodes.
>
> Here is a modern version:
>
> <http://www.gann.de/Zubeh%C3%B6r/ElektrodenHolzfeuchte/EinschlagElektrodeM20/tabid/131/language/en-US/Default.aspx>
>
>
> Kevin Gallimore
What makes you think that the holes for the pins were not insulated?
There were many methods of insulating that did not require plastic,
mica, some form of cardboard (but not really a cardboard) , nylon,
rubber, epoxy , wood...
--
Jeff
2983: Golf shoe tool?
2984: Shingles remover?
2985: Numbers from a old register?
2986:
2987: end cap for a disposable knife, box cutter, carpet cutter
2988:
Mike in Ohio
On 9/25/2013 3:59 AM, Rob H. wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Larger images:
>
> http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>
>
> I might not have access to a computer for the next few days.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
On 9/30/2013 7:05 PM, Alexander Thesoso wrote:
> I mean no disrespect to wood, people who work with it, or people who
> measure it's moisture content.
> I googled "wood moisture measurement".
> As an outsider, I get the impression that measuring wood moisture
> content is, as described, a crude, inexact process.
> It is likely that, for most uses of wood, accurate and precise
> measurements are not needed.
> The reference process is: Weigh a piece of wood, dry it, weigh it
> again. That is probably reasonably accurate and precise.
> The field process seems to be: Make an electrical resistance
> measurement between a pair of pins driven an unspecified distance into
> the wood, then look in a table to get and idea of the moisture for the
> type of wood. Perhaps, use partly insulated pins to measure at some
> (incompletely) specified depth.
> There was one google hit for someone who simply drilled a couple of
> spaced holes in a block, and drove a pair of nails through the holes
> into the test piece, using the block as a depth stop. Then he simply
> measured the resistance and looked up the moisture content.
> As pure water is non-conductive, all the measurements seem to need
> calibration for the salts/ion concentration of the specific wood.
> If I were still in the invention business, I'd develop and patent an
> accurate, precise microwave wood moisture measurement device, but I no
> longer care.
>
> So... The thing in the picture (2983) holds a couple of pins. The
> robust device is bashed with a hammer to push the pins into a piece of
> wood to an unspecified depth. If or when the pins bend or can't be
> removed, they are replaced. There is probably some insulation on the
> pin shanks so there is a reasonable chance of measuring the resistance,
> then pulling the whole thing out and re-using it a few times. It now
> all makes sense. I'm happy.
Good I'm glad, I wasn't going to sleep tonight until you were.
There is also a scanning moisture meter these days. What you neglect to
consider is that the moisture in the wood is not just pure water.
Trees have some sugar to them. Some more than others. Resin.
Now don't fret, many of us rely on the moisture content... some don't.
Take care Theo
--
Jeff
Rob H. wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Larger images:
>
> http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>
>
> I might not have access to a computer for the next few days.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
2986 Looks like it would be good for shelling oysters.
--
GW Ross
I didn't fight my way to the top of
the food chain to be a vegetarian.
Posting from my desk top PC in the living room, as always.
2983, scriber for writing parallel lines, scratched into a surface.
2984, corn weeding shovel. Part of the lower handle is missing.
2985, used for roadside alcohol driver testing.
2986, end of a yellow tape measure tape. The other item could be any thing.
2987, I'll admit, you got me.
2988, Part of either a grape press,or cheese press.
.
Christopher A. Young
Learn about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
On 9/25/2013 6:33 PM, axolotl wrote:
> On 9/25/2013 3:59 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>> This week's set has been posted:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>
> 2983. Electrodes and electrode driver for a moisture meter.
>
>
> Kevin Gallimore
>
>> Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> This week's set has been posted:
>>>
>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>>
>>> Larger images:
>>>
>>> http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>>>
>>>
2984: I think it might be a SOD spade, as opposed to a hay knife.
Maybe... same basic function.
2985: The pop-up number tags from an old mechanical cash register.
2986: I'm not sure what it is, but it's apparently for prying on
something with a thin section, and small separation (initially) between
it and the working surface. Flat edge gets forced in under, a little
prying, then turn the tool and use the fulcrum to pull it out further.
Maybe a staple puller, for upholstery work.
2987: I know this thing! It's a push-latching sommat... but can't
remember what for! <G>
2988: a crowned pulley for flat belts, probably for an old agricultural
machine, maybe even steam-driven. Could be a line-shaft pulley, too, for
a water driven shop.
Lloyd
"DoN. Nichols" <[email protected]> fired this volley in
news:[email protected]:
> Obviously, the points are replaceable, and can be adjusted so
> both make contact at the same time with a flat surface.
>
<G> Don, any two pins that are parallel and pointing in the same
direction can always both make contact with a flat surface at the same
time... The pins can be different lengths, entirely -- even infinitely
different lengths.
They need no 'adjustment' to accomplish that. Two points define a straight
line, Don.
Lloyd
"DoN. Nichols" <[email protected]> fired this volley in
news:[email protected]:
> Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
>
Good grief!
At least now I know who to call when I my supply of "rambling" runs low!
<G>
Lloyd
Alexander Thesoso <[email protected]> fired this volley in
news:[email protected]:
> If I were still in the invention business, I'd develop and patent an
> accurate, precise microwave wood moisture measurement device, but I no
> longer care.
>
>
You assume way too much.
First, the pins will be driven a specific distance into the end-grain of
the wood -- into which they will go straight. The operator is trained to
do so. The wood is freshly cut square to the grain for 'official'
measurements.
Second, the relative conductivity of the salts in various woods is well-
known and documented in easy-to-obtain tables. Hell... you can buy very
accurate wood moisture meters with such tables in most high-end
woodworking supplies.
Third, you are permitted to be happy. You may be even happier to know
that microwave ("radar") moisture detectors are already available for
wood analysis. But, then, you'd still need to know the specific "dry"
moisture level of each type of wood (which varies by species). You'd
also have to know the microwave penetration in each species. These are
both issues that are handled nicely by plunging electrodes a known, short
distance into the very core of the freshly-cut lumber.
I think you belittle too much things with which you don't have first-hand
experience.
Lloyd
On Wednesday, September 25, 2013 2:59:31 AM UTC-5, Rob H. wrote:
> This week's set has been posted: http://55tools.blogspot.com/ Larger imag=
es: http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH I might not have access to a computer for the =
next few days. Rob
2983 reminds me of a double needle aspect/mount of a double needle (industr=
ial) sewing machine. This one's spacing being about 1/2". I don't see the=
eyes of the needles nor the recesses (near the tips, on the outer sides of=
the needles) for the sewing machine's hooks, to hook the thread, as it pas=
ses near the needle. =20
My Singer's double needle: =20
http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/9932377103/ =20
A closer view of the tips: http://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/993239=
8713/in/photostream/ =20
Sonny
Rob H.:
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
Well, 2985 is easy: pop-up displays from a cash register, as were common
before rotating digit wheels came into use.
--
Mark Brader, Toronto "A cow-orker of mine used to ood dogs."
[email protected] -- Steve Hayes
My text in this article is in the public domain.
On 9/30/2013 12:43 AM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
> On 2013-09-29, woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 9/29/2013 11:01 AM, axolotl wrote:
>>> On 9/29/2013 9:33 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>>>>> Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
>>>>> testing moisture content in wood. I don't think that device shown it
>>>>> would work that way, because there are no provisions for insulating the
>>>>> two pins from the metal holder. And the black screws coming in from the
>>>>> sides are to secure the points in the holder, not to connect wires.
>>>>> (Brass screws would be more likely to be used for electrical
>>>>> connections, and they would still require the insulation of both the
>>>>> pins and the screws from the holder.
>
> [ ... ]
>
>>>> You make some good points on this one, the photos were sent in by a
>>>> visitor of
>>>> the
>>>> site so I don't have it in my possession. I think it was marked as
>>>> being part of
>>>> a
>>>> moisture meter when he bought it but I'll pass along your reservations
>>>> and see
>>>> what he says.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think the object in question predates high impact plastic; one would
>>> remove the driver and attach connectors to the electrodes.
>>>
>>> Here is a modern version:
>>>
>>> <http://www.gann.de/Zubeh%C3%B6r/ElektrodenHolzfeuchte/EinschlagElektrodeM20/tabid/131/language/en-US/Default.aspx>
>
> It shows one which could have the wires directly connected to
> the pin holders -- but also the small image expands to show a log with
> several pairs of pins standing in it, plus one pair still in the holder.
>
>>> Kevin Gallimore
>>
>> What makes you think that the holes for the pins were not insulated?
>> There were many methods of insulating that did not require plastic,
>> mica, some form of cardboard (but not really a cardboard) , nylon,
>> rubber, epoxy , wood...
>
> Or Bakelite as something which predates epoxy and was commonly
> used for insulation and structural members. Probably a sleeve and a
> disc of the Bakelite would work in the holder.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
>
EXACTLY.. then all you would need are alligator clips
--
Jeff
On 25 Sep 2013 00:59:31 -0700, Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>This week's set has been posted:
>
>http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
2984
Roofing fork a very early one
2985
Number tags from a cash register
2981
Tab from a light timer
2983 No idea, but the combination of a robust head with flimsy,
replaceable points confuses and intrigues me.
2984 A garden edger. Offset for use near a wall. A low wall or the
user will scrape his knuckles.
2985 Indicator tabs from a cash register.
2988 Power transmission pulley for a flat belt shaft power distribution
system.
On 9/25/2013 3:59 AM, Rob H. wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Larger images:
>
> http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>
>
> I might not have access to a computer for the next few days.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
"Rob H." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Larger images:
>
> http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>
>
> I might not have access to a computer for the next few days.
>
>
>
> Rob
>
I think 2983 is some sort of bookbinder's awl. The points are too far apart
for leather stitching, but seems about right for books.
2988 is a flat belt pulley
Paul K. Dickman
On 25 Sep 2013 00:59:31 -0700
Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>This week's set has been posted:
>
>http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
>Larger images:
>
>http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>
>
>I might not have access to a computer for the next few days.
2984 is a Hay Knife. Used in an old hay mow for cutting/separating
loose hay.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
Leon Fisk wrote:
> On 25 Sep 2013 00:59:31 -0700
> Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> This week's set has been posted:
>>
>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>
>> Larger images:
>>
>> http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>>
>>
>> I might not have access to a computer for the next few days.
>
> 2984 is a Hay Knife. Used in an old hay mow for cutting/separating
> loose hay.
>
>
The "modern" version is also used in the fire service. They dig through
roots/tangle better than a common round point when digging a fire break.
We also have hoes built on the same concept. Work great as long as the
operator holds up.
--
Steve W.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
>>> Rob H. <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> This week's set has been posted:
>>>>
>>>> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>>>>
>>>> Larger images:
>>>>
>>>> http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>>>>
>>>>
>
> 2984: I think it might be a SOD spade, as opposed to a hay knife.
> Maybe... same basic function.
>
> 2985: The pop-up number tags from an old mechanical cash register.
>
> 2986: I'm not sure what it is, but it's apparently for prying on
> something with a thin section, and small separation (initially) between
> it and the working surface. Flat edge gets forced in under, a little
> prying, then turn the tool and use the fulcrum to pull it out further.
> Maybe a staple puller, for upholstery work.
>
> 2987: I know this thing! It's a push-latching sommat... but can't
> remember what for! <G>
>
> 2988: a crowned pulley for flat belts, probably for an old agricultural
> machine, maybe even steam-driven. Could be a line-shaft pulley, too, for
> a water driven shop.
>
> Lloyd
2988 : Line shaft pulley, Split type to allow it to be added to a shaft
that was already installed.
--
Steve W.
On Wed, 25 Sep 2013 14:53:54 -0400
Leon Fisk <[email protected]> wrote:
<snip>
>2984 is a Hay Knife. Used in an old hay mow for
>cutting/separating loose hay.
>
Here is a similar "knife" that had a patent:
https://www.google.com/patents/US202487
https://www.google.com/patents/USRE9991
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
On 9/27/2013 6:58 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> "DoN. Nichols" <[email protected]> fired this volley in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Obviously, the points are replaceable, and can be adjusted so
>> both make contact at the same time with a flat surface.
I thought maybe the points could be needles, and that it might be used
for sewing (canvas, or similar)
>>
>
> <G> Don, any two pins that are parallel and pointing in the same
> direction can always both make contact with a flat surface at the same
> time... The pins can be different lengths, entirely -- even infinitely
> different lengths.
>
> They need no 'adjustment' to accomplish that. Two points define a straight
> line, Don.
>
> Lloyd
>
> Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
>testing moisture content in wood. I don't think that device shown it
>would work that way, because there are no provisions for insulating the
>two pins from the metal holder. And the black screws coming in from the
>sides are to secure the points in the holder, not to connect wires.
>(Brass screws would be more likely to be used for electrical
>connections, and they would still require the insulation of both the
>pins and the screws from the holder.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
You make some good points on this one, the photos were sent in by a visitor of
the
site so I don't have it in my possession. I think it was marked as being part of
a
moisture meter when he bought it but I'll pass along your reservations and see
what he says.
On 9/29/2013 9:33 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>> Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
>> testing moisture content in wood. I don't think that device shown it
>> would work that way, because there are no provisions for insulating the
>> two pins from the metal holder. And the black screws coming in from the
>> sides are to secure the points in the holder, not to connect wires.
>> (Brass screws would be more likely to be used for electrical
>> connections, and they would still require the insulation of both the
>> pins and the screws from the holder.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> DoN.
>
>
> You make some good points on this one, the photos were sent in by a visitor of
> the
> site so I don't have it in my possession. I think it was marked as being part of
> a
> moisture meter when he bought it but I'll pass along your reservations and see
> what he says.
>
I think the object in question predates high impact plastic; one would
remove the driver and attach connectors to the electrodes.
Here is a modern version:
<http://www.gann.de/Zubeh%C3%B6r/ElektrodenHolzfeuchte/EinschlagElektrodeM20/tabid/131/language/en-US/Default.aspx>
Kevin Gallimore
>> You make some good points on this one, the photos were sent in by a visitor
of
>> the
>>site so I don't have it in my possession. I think it was marked as being part
of
>> a
>> moisture meter when he bought it but I'll pass along your reservations and
see
>> what he says.
>>
>
>I think the object in question predates high impact plastic; one would
>remove the driver and attach connectors to the electrodes.
That sounds like a good way to use it, I was thinking maybe they just made the
holes with this tool, and then stuck some electrodes into these holes, but I
think I like your idea better.
>Here is a modern version:
>
>
<http://www.gann.de/Zubeh%C3%B6r/ElektrodenHolzfeuchte/EinschlagElektrodeM20/tab
id/131/language/en-US/Default.aspx>
>
>Kevin Gallimore
Thanks, I just added this link to my answer page.
On 9/29/13 11:16 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> On 9/29/2013 11:01 AM, axolotl wrote:
>> On 9/29/2013 9:33 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>>>> Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
>>>> testing moisture content in wood. I don't think that device shown it
>>>> would work that way, because there are no provisions for insulating the
>>>> two pins from the metal holder. And the black screws coming in from
>>>> the
>>>> sides are to secure the points in the holder, not to connect wires.
>>>> (Brass screws would be more likely to be used for electrical
>>>> connections, and they would still require the insulation of both the
>>>> pins and the screws from the holder.
>>>>
>>>> Enjoy,
>>>> DoN.
>>>
>>>
>>> You make some good points on this one, the photos were sent in by a
>>> visitor of
>>> the
>>> site so I don't have it in my possession. I think it was marked as
>>> being part of
>>> a
>>> moisture meter when he bought it but I'll pass along your reservations
>>> and see
>>> what he says.
>>>
>>
>> I think the object in question predates high impact plastic; one would
>> remove the driver and attach connectors to the electrodes.
>>
>> Here is a modern version:
>>
>> <http://www.gann.de/Zubeh%C3%B6r/ElektrodenHolzfeuchte/EinschlagElektrodeM20/tabid/131/language/en-US/Default.aspx>
>>
>>
>>
>> Kevin Gallimore
>
> What makes you think that the holes for the pins were not insulated?
> There were many methods of insulating that did not require plastic,
> mica, some form of cardboard (but not really a cardboard) , nylon,
> rubber, epoxy , wood...
>
I think it could have been used without insulation. Use the tool to
drive the pins in at the right spacing. Loosen the set screws, remove
the tool, connect the electrical tester.
On 9/29/2013 11:16 AM, woodchucker wrote:
> What makes you think that the holes for the pins were not insulated?
> There were many methods of insulating that did not require plastic,
> mica, some form of cardboard (but not really a cardboard) , nylon,
> rubber, epoxy , wood...
>
1) The picture shows no insulation.
2) The picture shows no wires connecting to the electrodes.
Kevin Gallimore
I mean no disrespect to wood, people who work with it, or people who
measure it's moisture content.
I googled "wood moisture measurement".
As an outsider, I get the impression that measuring wood moisture
content is, as described, a crude, inexact process.
It is likely that, for most uses of wood, accurate and precise
measurements are not needed.
The reference process is: Weigh a piece of wood, dry it, weigh it
again. That is probably reasonably accurate and precise.
The field process seems to be: Make an electrical resistance
measurement between a pair of pins driven an unspecified distance into
the wood, then look in a table to get and idea of the moisture for the
type of wood. Perhaps, use partly insulated pins to measure at some
(incompletely) specified depth.
There was one google hit for someone who simply drilled a couple of
spaced holes in a block, and drove a pair of nails through the holes
into the test piece, using the block as a depth stop. Then he simply
measured the resistance and looked up the moisture content.
As pure water is non-conductive, all the measurements seem to need
calibration for the salts/ion concentration of the specific wood.
If I were still in the invention business, I'd develop and patent an
accurate, precise microwave wood moisture measurement device, but I no
longer care.
So... The thing in the picture (2983) holds a couple of pins. The
robust device is bashed with a hammer to push the pins into a piece of
wood to an unspecified depth. If or when the pins bend or can't be
removed, they are replaced. There is probably some insulation on the
pin shanks so there is a reasonable chance of measuring the resistance,
then pulling the whole thing out and re-using it a few times. It now
all makes sense. I'm happy.
Mike Duffy wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 22:07:46 -0400, woodchucker wrote:
>
>> There is also a scanning moisture meter these days. What you neglect
>> to consider is that the moisture in the wood is not just pure water.
>> Trees have some sugar to them. Some more than others. Resin.
>>
>>
>> Now don't fret, many of us rely on the moisture content... some
>> don't. Take care Theo
>
> Greetings, all. I was in the "lurking" phase before joining this group
> because I am retired now and have vague ideas about finishing my
> basement. I intended to wait a few weeks before exposing myself here,
> to learn the vocabulary and group norms. (& outspoken personalities,
> etc.)
>
> But I just could not resist the idea that came into my head about
> using magnetic resonance imaging to measure water content in wood. Of
> course, not very many people have a few million dollars to spare, a
> workshop with a few hundred cubic meters of spare space, and a few
> kilowatts of spare fusebox capacity.
>
> Then it struck me like a cartoon "light bulb" balloon. You don't need
> to do MRI! You can do molecular microwave resonance measurements
> using a microwave oven, which is already tuned for the water molecule.
>
> All you need to do is put a fixed quantity of water at a known
> temperature (i.e. exacly 100 ml of water at exactly 0 C) along with
> your piece of wood.
>
> Then you fire up the oven for a fixed time, (i.e. exacly 100 seconds)
> and measure the resultant temperature of the water. If you know the
> effective power of your magnetron[1], you should be able to easily
> calculate the fraction of the total water content in the oven as it
> is divided between your wood piece and the container with the liquid
> water.
>
> If you are worried about damaging the wood, just use a smaller time
> period. The result will be less accurate of course.
>
> [1] You can calculate it just by seeing how long it takes to boil the
> water when there is no wood in the oven.
Or - you could just go buy dimensional lumber at your local Big Box store,
and simply build the project at hand.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Mike Duffy wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 23:55:07 -0400, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> Or - you could just go buy dimensional lumber at your local Big Box
>> store, and simply build the project at hand.
>
> I take it then that water content is not something considered
> important? I must admit that I am new at this. Perhaps it is only
> important when you are working with naturally-procured wood. Is the
> big-box material usually pre-conditioned to be at a fairly consistent
> water content? Should wood be expected to warp and develop cracks as
> it ages?
You can take it that you are making way more of this than you need to.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 10/1/13 12:36 AM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
> I'm not sure that there is insulation in the tool shown, nor on
> the shanks of the pins -- but by loosening the screws in the sides, you
> could withdraw the body and then measure the resistance between the pins
> with no danger of the body shorting them. I think that the primary
> function of the body is to be strong enough to drive them in without
> problems, and built-in insulation appropriate to the apparent period of
> the device may not survive that process with a serious hardwood. What
> the tool *does* do is place the two pins at a precise spacing, and if
> driven to the shoulders of the pins, at a repeatable depth, too.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.
>
I can imagine two more reasons to remove the body. It would be easier
to connect the meter without shorting, and the pins could best be
extracted one by one.
http://woodgears.ca/lumber/moisture_meter.html
The chart is for 8mm penetration. On the tool, it looks like 15mm to
the shoulders. If 8mm were adequate for a given job, the pins would be
easier to drive and extract. I wonder if the tool was used with a wood
block as a spacer for a chosen depth.
On 2013-09-25, Rob H <[email protected]> wrote:
> This week's set has been posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/
>
> Larger images:
>
> http://imgur.com/a/LrBVH
>
>
> I might not have access to a computer for the next few days.
O.K. Well, when you can. :-)
Posting from Rec.crafts.metalworking as always. Where are you
all posting from, since this appears on three newsgroups.
2983) Hmm ... if it were smaller and had four pins in line, and had
wires connected to each pin, I would know what it is for.
As it is -- I think that it is intended to hold some fairly soft
(like meat or potatos) sample for some kind of testing.
Obviously, the points are replaceable, and can be adjusted so
both make contact at the same time with a flat surface.
2984) Maybe for digging some plants out by the roots. I don't know.
2985) Either the "cents" part of an old (pre electronic) cash
register, or flags used to price produce in bins.
I find it hard to imagine that a cash register would be designed
to require 100 flags like this. It should have separate flags
for the tens of cents and the units of cents. But I guess that
one could have been made like this at one time.
Aha! Perhaps setting price flags in gasoline pumps -- again,
pre-electronics.
Too small to be the price set on signs visible from the street.
2986) Does that blade pivot in the vertical part, or is it fixed for
pounding on something? The notch sort of looks like a wire
stripper, but not quite right, depending on what the other side
looks like.
If the blade pivots, it is a lever to adjust the height of
something.
2987) I guess that this is one of those common things which I don't
normally handle. :-)
2988) Pulley for leather belt drive. Given the size, I think that it
might go between a steam tractor as a power source and a large
circular saw as in a sawmill.
The crowning is to keep the belt centered. It tends to run to
the highest part of the crown.
And one this size is a bit too heavy to do from cast iron as
many of them were.
Now to post and then see what others have suggested.
Enjoy,
DoN.
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On 2013-09-27, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
> "DoN. Nichols" <[email protected]> fired this volley in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Obviously, the points are replaceable, and can be adjusted so
>> both make contact at the same time with a flat surface.
>>
>
><G> Don, any two pins that are parallel and pointing in the same
> direction can always both make contact with a flat surface at the same
> time... The pins can be different lengths, entirely -- even infinitely
> different lengths.
Hmm ... infinitely different lengths may put the points too far
apart to both contact a given flat surface of finite dimensions.
And I was assuming (granted, I did not state so) a plane at
right angles to the axis of the fixture -- a plane parallel to the one
defined by the back end of the tool.
And I was coming from thinking about the tool which I mentioned
which would have four equally spaced points in a straight line, and
which *would* be used vertical to the surface of what is being tested.
> They need no 'adjustment' to accomplish that. Two points define a straight
> line, Don.
Agreed -- though your example of an infinitely different length
of the two pins cannot both touch a finite surface like say a 4'
diameter table. :-)
And even given an infinite plane, an infinite (or even near
infinite) difference in length will wind up with the points approaching
on a parallel to the plane, which sort of defeats the purpose of the
points to contact a very small area.
But -- if you are mounting the tool in a controlling fixture, it
will likely expect to have the surface plane at a right angle to the
axis of the tool.
Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
testing moisture content in wood. I don't think that device shown it
would work that way, because there are no provisions for insulating the
two pins from the metal holder. And the black screws coming in from the
sides are to secure the points in the holder, not to connect wires.
(Brass screws would be more likely to be used for electrical
connections, and they would still require the insulation of both the
pins and the screws from the holder.
Enjoy,
DoN.
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On 2013-09-29, Rob H <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks for everyone's patience in waiting for the answers to be posted:
>
> http://55tools.blogspot.com/2013/09/set-512.html#answers
About (2983). Is there any form of insulation between the metal
body and the pins? And any insulation between the screws which lock the
pins in and either the pins, or the body? Otherwise, I can't see it as
being used with a meter -- unless the weight of it is used to drive the
pins in, and then the body withdrawn, leaving the pins in place.
Enjoy,
DoN.
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On 2013-09-29, Rob H <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
>>testing moisture content in wood. I don't think that device shown it
>>would work that way, because there are no provisions for insulating the
>>two pins from the metal holder. And the black screws coming in from the
>>sides are to secure the points in the holder, not to connect wires.
>>(Brass screws would be more likely to be used for electrical
>>connections, and they would still require the insulation of both the
>>pins and the screws from the holder.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> DoN.
>
>
> You make some good points on this one, the photos were sent in by a visitor of
> the
> site so I don't have it in my possession. I think it was marked as being part of
> a
> moisture meter when he bought it but I'll pass along your reservations and see
> what he says.
I should have read down-thread before posting to your post about
the answers being finally up. :-)
Sorry,
DoN.
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On 2013-09-29, woodchucker <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 9/29/2013 11:01 AM, axolotl wrote:
>> On 9/29/2013 9:33 AM, Rob H. wrote:
>>>> Oh yes -- and someone mentioned the possibility that it is for
>>>> testing moisture content in wood. I don't think that device shown it
>>>> would work that way, because there are no provisions for insulating the
>>>> two pins from the metal holder. And the black screws coming in from the
>>>> sides are to secure the points in the holder, not to connect wires.
>>>> (Brass screws would be more likely to be used for electrical
>>>> connections, and they would still require the insulation of both the
>>>> pins and the screws from the holder.
[ ... ]
>>> You make some good points on this one, the photos were sent in by a
>>> visitor of
>>> the
>>> site so I don't have it in my possession. I think it was marked as
>>> being part of
>>> a
>>> moisture meter when he bought it but I'll pass along your reservations
>>> and see
>>> what he says.
>>>
>>
>> I think the object in question predates high impact plastic; one would
>> remove the driver and attach connectors to the electrodes.
>>
>> Here is a modern version:
>>
>> <http://www.gann.de/Zubeh%C3%B6r/ElektrodenHolzfeuchte/EinschlagElektrodeM20/tabid/131/language/en-US/Default.aspx>
It shows one which could have the wires directly connected to
the pin holders -- but also the small image expands to show a log with
several pairs of pins standing in it, plus one pair still in the holder.
>> Kevin Gallimore
>
> What makes you think that the holes for the pins were not insulated?
> There were many methods of insulating that did not require plastic,
> mica, some form of cardboard (but not really a cardboard) , nylon,
> rubber, epoxy , wood...
Or Bakelite as something which predates epoxy and was commonly
used for insulation and structural members. Probably a sleeve and a
disc of the Bakelite would work in the holder.
Enjoy,
DoN.
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On 2013-09-30, Alexander Thesoso <[email protected]> wrote:
> I mean no disrespect to wood, people who work with it, or people who
> measure it's moisture content.
> I googled "wood moisture measurement".
> As an outsider, I get the impression that measuring wood moisture
> content is, as described, a crude, inexact process.
> It is likely that, for most uses of wood, accurate and precise
> measurements are not needed.
> The reference process is: Weigh a piece of wood, dry it, weigh it
> again. That is probably reasonably accurate and precise.
Probably -- if you can tell when the wood reaches a sufficiently dry
state to re-weigh it. :-) Perhaps bake it at a specified temperature
until another two hours does not produce more than a 1% change in the
weight.
> The field process seems to be: Make an electrical resistance
> measurement between a pair of pins driven an unspecified distance into
> the wood, then look in a table to get and idea of the moisture for the
> type of wood. Perhaps, use partly insulated pins to measure at some
> (incompletely) specified depth.
> There was one google hit for someone who simply drilled a couple of
> spaced holes in a block, and drove a pair of nails through the holes
> into the test piece, using the block as a depth stop. Then he simply
> measured the resistance and looked up the moisture content.
> As pure water is non-conductive, all the measurements seem to need
> calibration for the salts/ion concentration of the specific wood.
Presumably, the sap constitution is sufficiently standard so it
produces the needed salts when in the just cut state. And thus the
drying would move the resistance along a known curve.
> If I were still in the invention business, I'd develop and patent an
> accurate, precise microwave wood moisture measurement device, but I no
> longer care.
Nor is it clear that anyone needs the measurement to sufficient
precision to provide a market for such a device. :-)
> So... The thing in the picture (2983) holds a couple of pins. The
> robust device is bashed with a hammer to push the pins into a piece of
> wood to an unspecified depth.
Since the exposed part of the pins has two diameters, I would
expect that you drive it in until the shoulder touches the surface of
the wood. (Given that said surface in the raw state is rather
inconsistent even if you strip off the bark first). :-)
> If or when the pins bend or can't be
> removed, they are replaced. There is probably some insulation on the
> pin shanks so there is a reasonable chance of measuring the resistance,
> then pulling the whole thing out and re-using it a few times. It now
> all makes sense. I'm happy.
I'm not sure that there is insulation in the tool shown, nor on
the shanks of the pins -- but by loosening the screws in the sides, you
could withdraw the body and then measure the resistance between the pins
with no danger of the body shorting them. I think that the primary
function of the body is to be strong enough to drive them in without
problems, and built-in insulation appropriate to the apparent period of
the device may not survive that process with a serious hardwood. What
the tool *does* do is place the two pins at a precise spacing, and if
driven to the shoulders of the pins, at a repeatable depth, too.
Enjoy,
DoN.
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In article <[email protected]>,
Rich Hare <[email protected]> wrote:
> Rob H. wrote:
> > This week's set has been posted:
> >
> > http://55tools.blogspot.com/
> >
>
> 2984 is a shingle removing shovel
>
> 2987 is the "ON" setting button for a light timer (the kind you plug
> into a wall and plug a lamp into)
>
> Rich
2987: I'm pretty sure Rick is correct.
Erik