In article <[email protected]>, sam
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
You can use the shank of a screwdriver, but:
<http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=32643&cat=1,310,41070>
$7.50 CAD
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:46:24 -0800, scritch <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>> You're supposed to take it out of the engine?
>>
>>
>If you leave it in, and rev up the engine, you don't have to move the
>burnisher back and forth, just slide your scaper back and forth across
>the pushrod.
Actually, some people burnish that way against a stationary burnisher.
Might even be safer. :-)
With all deference to Tage Frid, I never thought much of his advice to
use a chisel for this purpose! Just what you want; applying a lot of
pressure to a scraper edge with a chisel. If it should slip for some
reason, you have potential for serious damage to your hand.
I have gone through a number of incarnations of scraper burnishers
over the years, including the old Ulmia wheel burnishers, which still
do an admirable job. In my toolbox, however, the weapon of choice is a
homemade burnisher made from a triangular file. If you want to go this
route, it is advisable to take the temper out of the file before
grinding the old teeth away. Heat to cherry and let cool to room
temperature, then grind away to heart's content. Put a slight radius
on the edges. I have a rubberized abrasive wheel on the other wheel
of my bench grinder which did a great job of working to a smooth
mirror finish. Then harden by heating to cherry again and quenching in
oil. Don't bother with tempering because, the harder, the better as
far as burnishers are concerned. I doubt it'll be so brittle as to
break unless you're opening paint cans with it... :-)...
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:02:22 -0600, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>
>Thanks,
>
>s
An old piston rod makes a nice burnisher.
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:23:43 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>Jay Pique wrote:
>> On Dec 1, 10:02 pm, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>>> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>>> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>>
>> I've been just using the scraper fresh off the file and it works
>> excellently. Clamp the file in a vise, swipe the card a couple times,
>> scrape away. Now this isn't for a finished surface, but for just
>> smoothing out planer marks, glue, smal tear out, etc. prior to final
>> sanding it works like a charm. Some guy over on lumberjocks.com has a
>> blog on it if you want more detail.
>>
>> JP
>
>I use card scrapers *all the time* and hardly ever piddle around with trying to
>get a hook on the edge. I usually rake mine across a 320 or 600 grit diamond
>stone to get a crisp, sharp 90-degree edge, and rarely am I ever left wanting
>for anything better.
My method exactly, and I couldn't be happier. Hooks are for more
patient people.
--
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas
to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label
of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem
important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.
-- Thomas J. Watson
On Dec 1, 10:33=A0pm, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher
> > Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
>
> My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
> better job?
I've used a screwdriver shaft (go for one that isn't nickel-plated,
from a good quality screwdriver), and tungsten carbide rods
and rounds, and there isn't much reason to prefer one over
the other.
A favorite old crosspoint screwdriver with a bunged-up tip can
do this in retirement. Use that resource!
You want a hardened rod, so I'd think a valve stem or a shockabsorber
shaft would be better than a pushrod.
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, sam
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>>wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>>hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>
> I went to a local engine-rebuilding shop and bought a few old push rods
> for a
> dollar apiece. Chucked one in the drill press and polished it with
> successively finer grits of sandpaper, ending at about 800 or 1000. I've
> been
> burnishing my scrapers with that for seven or eight years now. Works just
> fine, and beats heck out of spending $30.
Tough call... ??? 5$ for the rod and then 2 hrs to polish, I guess if
those 2 hrs are worth less than $12.50 each...
sam <[email protected]> writes:
> My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
> better job?
I think the real issue is can you control the angle of the burnisher
in a consistant manner, and put enough pressure to form the hook?
As I said, the Tage Frid book (Vol. 1) has a section on the scraper,
and he uses the shank of a small chisel (AIR).
Clamp it in a vise, and bear down, maintaining the angle during the
hook forming.
My trouble is, I am not sure if I am forming a 5 degree hook
consistently. I can do it once, but if I come back months later, and
want to touch it up, can I duplicate the same angle? Is it 5 degrees?
10?
You may wish to consiter the Veritas variable burnisher.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=61448&cat=1,310
This lets you set the degree of a hook you want. That way you can
have scrapers, with light, medium, and and heavy degrees of hoo -
consistently.
sam <[email protected]> writes:
> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
Some use the shank of a chisel.... That's what Tage Frid suggests in
his books...
"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Phisherman
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:02:22 -0600, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>>>wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>>>hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>>
>>An old piston rod makes a nice burnisher.
>
> I think you mean a push rod... a piston rod would be a little unwieldy.
You're supposed to take it out of the engine?
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> "sam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
> > wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
> > hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
> >
> > Thanks,
>
> Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
better job?
Thanks,
s
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> sam wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
> >>
> >> "sam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email protected]...
> >>> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
> >>> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
> >>> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>
> >> Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
> >
> > My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
> > better job?
>
>
> No. Assuming the alternative used is smooth.
Thanks. Much appreciated.
s
"sam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>
> Thanks,
Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
Maxwell Lol <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> sam <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> My question: will an actual burnisher do a much better
>> job?
>
> I think the real issue is can you control the angle of the
> burnisher in a consistant manner, and put enough pressure
> to form the hook?
>
> As I said, the Tage Frid book (Vol. 1) has a section on the
> scraper, and he uses the shank of a small chisel (AIR).
>
> Clamp it in a vise, and bear down, maintaining the angle
> during the hook forming.
>
> My trouble is, I am not sure if I am forming a 5 degree
> hook consistently. I can do it once, but if I come back
> months later, and want to touch it up, can I duplicate the
> same angle? Is it 5 degrees? 10?
>
> You may wish to consiter the Veritas variable burnisher.
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=61448&cat=1,31
> 0
>
> This lets you set the degree of a hook you want. That way
> you can have scrapers, with light, medium, and and heavy
> degrees of hoo - consistently.
>
I just received one of these in the mail today. It's the first
time I've ever been able to get a proper edge on my scraper.
Maybe I'm a dumbass but no amount of effort resulted in the
edge I was looking for.
I pulled this out of the packaging and about 5 minutes later I
had the best edge on my scraper that it's ever had. I would
highly recommend as I would just about everything they sell.
Never purchased a bad product from them yet.
Larry
Steve Turner wrote:
> whit3rd wrote:
>> On Dec 1, 10:33 pm, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>>> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher
>>
>>>> Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
>>> My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
>>> better job?
>>
>> I've used a screwdriver shaft (go for one that isn't nickel-plated,
>> from a good quality screwdriver), and tungsten carbide rods
>> and rounds, and there isn't much reason to prefer one over
>> the other.
>>
>> A favorite old crosspoint screwdriver with a bunged-up tip can
>> do this in retirement. Use that resource!
>>
>> You want a hardened rod, so I'd think a valve stem or a shockabsorber
>> shaft would be better than a pushrod.
>
> Yes, I think this would qualify as one of those times when you want a
> hardened rod. There are other times when having one is not particularly
> convenient...
>
I wouldn't know personally, but apparently it can be a real problem
after four hours.
On Dec 1, 10:02=A0pm, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
I've been just using the scraper fresh off the file and it works
excellently. Clamp the file in a vise, swipe the card a couple times,
scrape away. Now this isn't for a finished surface, but for just
smoothing out planer marks, glue, smal tear out, etc. prior to final
sanding it works like a charm. Some guy over on lumberjocks.com has a
blog on it if you want more detail.
JP
On Wed, 2 Dec 2009 00:33:04 -0600, the infamous sam
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>says...
>>
>> "sam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>> > wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>> > hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>>
>> Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
>
>My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
>better job?
Compared to a hardened screwdriver, no. Essentially, anything harder
than the scraper alloy will be able to turn a hook.
I prefer a plain old honed edge to a hook, but I'm not using scrapers
every day, either.
Use whatever you like. Try some things and figure it out for yourself,
Sam.
--
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas
to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label
of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem
important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.
-- Thomas J. Watson
On Dec 1, 9:02=A0pm, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>
> Thanks,
>
> s
As has been pointed out here, lots of things will work. In addition
to screwdrivers and chisels, I have even used a large nail or spike.
In article <[email protected]>, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:02:22 -0600, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>>wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>>hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>
>An old piston rod makes a nice burnisher.
I think you mean a push rod... a piston rod would be a little unwieldy.
In article <[email protected]>, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
I went to a local engine-rebuilding shop and bought a few old push rods for a
dollar apiece. Chucked one in the drill press and polished it with
successively finer grits of sandpaper, ending at about 800 or 1000. I've been
burnishing my scrapers with that for seven or eight years now. Works just
fine, and beats heck out of spending $30.
Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>
> You can use the shank of a screwdriver, but:
>
I heard high carbon steel drill bits work, too.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
sam wrote:
> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
Anything that is smooth, approximately round, and harder than the scraper
will work. The burnisher is handy because it has a nice handle and a good
length all of which is usable but there's nothing magic about it. I've used
drill bits, chisels, and screwdrivers and they all work fine but they're
harder to hold or have less working length than the purpose-made burnisher
and with the chisels you have an additional sharp edge to avoid.
So, no, it does't make a better hook, but it's a more pleasant tool to
handle for that particular purpose.
By the way, Amazon has "crown" brand burnishers, which work fine, for 15
bucks and shipping right now.
whit3rd wrote:
> On Dec 1, 10:33 pm, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher
>
>>> Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
>> My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
>> better job?
>
> I've used a screwdriver shaft (go for one that isn't nickel-plated,
> from a good quality screwdriver), and tungsten carbide rods
> and rounds, and there isn't much reason to prefer one over
> the other.
>
> A favorite old crosspoint screwdriver with a bunged-up tip can
> do this in retirement. Use that resource!
>
> You want a hardened rod, so I'd think a valve stem or a shockabsorber
> shaft would be better than a pushrod.
Yes, I think this would qualify as one of those times when you want a hardened rod. There
are other times when having one is not particularly convenient...
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Steve Turner wrote:
> Yes, I think this would qualify as one of those times when you want a
> hardened rod....
<snicker> :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Jay Pique wrote:
> On Dec 1, 10:02 pm, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>
> I've been just using the scraper fresh off the file and it works
> excellently. Clamp the file in a vise, swipe the card a couple times,
> scrape away. Now this isn't for a finished surface, but for just
> smoothing out planer marks, glue, smal tear out, etc. prior to final
> sanding it works like a charm. Some guy over on lumberjocks.com has a
> blog on it if you want more detail.
>
> JP
I use card scrapers *all the time* and hardly ever piddle around with trying to
get a hook on the edge. I usually rake mine across a 320 or 600 grit diamond
stone to get a crisp, sharp 90-degree edge, and rarely am I ever left wanting
for anything better.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
In article <[email protected]>, "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>"Doug Miller" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, sam
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>>>wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>>>hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>>
>> I went to a local engine-rebuilding shop and bought a few old push rods for a
>> dollar apiece. Chucked one in the drill press and polished it with
>> successively finer grits of sandpaper, ending at about 800 or 1000. I've been
>> burnishing my scrapers with that for seven or eight years now. Works just
>> fine, and beats heck out of spending $30.
>
>
>Tough call... ??? 5$ for the rod and then 2 hrs to polish, I guess if
>those 2 hrs are worth less than $12.50 each...
>
Umm....no.... "A dollar apiece" for the rods, not $5 (where'd you get that
from, anyway??), and maybe -- MAYBE -- fifteen minutes to polish.
In article <[email protected]>, Jim Weisgram <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 23:42:22 -0500, "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>[...snip...]
>>> I went to a local engine-rebuilding shop and bought a few old push rods
>>> for a
>>> dollar apiece. Chucked one in the drill press and polished it with
>>> successively finer grits of sandpaper, ending at about 800 or 1000. I've
>>> been
>>> burnishing my scrapers with that for seven or eight years now. Works just
>>> fine, and beats heck out of spending $30.
>>
>>
>>Tough call... ??? 5$ for the rod and then 2 hrs to polish, I guess if
>>those 2 hrs are worth less than $12.50 each...
>
>2 hours? I think that would be a 5 minute job...?
>
>Now getting to the machine shop and back, depending on where you live,
>that might take some real time.
Ten minutes from home... <g>
In article <[email protected]>, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
>says...
>>
>> "sam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>> > wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>> > hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>>
>> Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
>
>My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
>better job?
I used to have a Lee Valley burnisher. I sold it right after I started using
an old push rod. The push rod does a *much* better job.
In article <[email protected]>, whit3rd <[email protected]> wrote:
>You want a hardened rod, so I'd think a valve stem or a shockabsorber
>shaft would be better than a pushrod.
Pushrods *are* hard steel -- harder than a scraper, anyway...
On Thu, 03 Dec 2009 09:05:58 -0800, the infamous Jim Weisgram
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 11:46:24 -0800, scritch <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> You're supposed to take it out of the engine?
>>>
>>>
>>If you leave it in, and rev up the engine, you don't have to move the
>>burnisher back and forth, just slide your scaper back and forth across
>>the pushrod.
>
>Actually, some people burnish that way against a stationary burnisher.
>Might even be safer. :-)
Ayup. Done wrong, sharpening a scraper can slit your wrist DEEPLY!
--
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker. Expose your ideas
to the dangers of controversy. Speak your mind and fear less the label
of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity. And on issues that seem
important to you, stand up and be counted at any cost.
-- Thomas J. Watson
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:02:22 -0600, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>
>Thanks,
>
>s
If you have a lot of time on your hands, an old file does work well.
Either round or triangular the trick is to grind it down to flat steel
then polish it - progressively with something like silicon carbide
sand paper - not easy given that it is hardened steel, but the results
work well. I think this is an old British thing (at least it was an
old Brit that told me about it) from back in the day when they would
cut up old handsaw blades to use as scrappers.
HTH,
Jeffo
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 23:42:22 -0500, "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]>
wrote:
[...snip...]
>> I went to a local engine-rebuilding shop and bought a few old push rods
>> for a
>> dollar apiece. Chucked one in the drill press and polished it with
>> successively finer grits of sandpaper, ending at about 800 or 1000. I've
>> been
>> burnishing my scrapers with that for seven or eight years now. Works just
>> fine, and beats heck out of spending $30.
>
>
>Tough call... ??? 5$ for the rod and then 2 hrs to polish, I guess if
>those 2 hrs are worth less than $12.50 each...
2 hours? I think that would be a 5 minute job...?
Now getting to the machine shop and back, depending on where you live,
that might take some real time.
<[email protected]> wrote
> With all deference to Tage Frid, I never thought much of his advice to
> use a chisel for this purpose! Just what you want; applying a lot of
> pressure to a scraper edge with a chisel. If it should slip for some
> reason, you have potential for serious damage to your hand.
Regarding the applied pressure, I recall a discussion during which a
metallurgist/woodworker said that excess pressure induced 'work hardening'
that actually makes the job more difficult.
I suppose that finding the ideal pressure is a matter of trial and error
(chiefly the latter of course), but I suspect that the diameter of the
burnisher might affect the intensity of the pressure and guess that the
polished back of say a 5/8in gouge might be about right.
Also, is a bit of lubrication a good idea or not?
Jeff, from his office chair.
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 21:02:22 -0600, sam <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>>wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>>hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>s
>
>
> An old piston rod makes a nice burnisher.
I am thinkin you may mean push rod rather than connecting rod.
sam wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> "sam" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Not crazy about shelling out 30 bucks for a burnisher, but I'm
>>> wondering if a burnisher does a much better job getting the
>>> hook on a card scraper than the round end of a file.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>
>> Round shaft of a screwdriver works if it is smooth.
>
> My question: will an actual burnisher do a much
> better job?
No. Assuming the alternative used is smooth.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico