Michael Daly wrote:
> On 18-Nov-2003, "Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>These doors are large (plus, they simply can't swing out because of the
>>arch), and it'll be tough to hold tolerance...and the bottom of them will
>>drag on the floor in order to open them. I just see that as just asking for
>>trouble.
>
> I know this is moot, but...
>
> I've never investigated the gory details of such doors, but I know that on some,
> the doors are rectangular and the top part that fills the arch is separate. I
> believe it can open, but I'm not sure if or how it works.
I had both these issues with my doors.
1) Dragging: Four 3' sectioned bi-fold. I put a caster on the inner
doors at the fold.
2) 9' 6" door, 8' lumber. I made a flip up section across the top. Piano
hinged it to the header. Two screws hold it closed. Only needed to open
it once in 3 ears.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:26:44 -0500, "Austin Franklin"
<[email protected]> scribbled
>Swing would be fine as well, but again, sealing them would be a bear, as
>well as automating them. I also think they have to swign out (as the car is
>on the inside), and with the arch, that would be a problem.
I don't think sealing outside swinging doors is a problem. Around the
perimeter, standard weatherstripping (the stuff that fits in a slot in
the jamb). Just make sure that the rebate on the jamb is wide enough
(DAMHIKT). At the joint between the doors, a batten glued on one door
(inside) that overlaps the other. If you're really concerned, a strip
of EDPM foam rubber. Bottom of the doors: some form of sweep (of which
many kinds are available).
Like others, I think swinging doors would be more in keeping with the
design of the building, and you're going to have a hard time
concealing the horizontal breaks. Of course, my not so humble opinion
is worth exactly what you paid for it. :-)
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" twice
in reply address for real email address
"Man is a tool-using animal. Weak in himself and of small stature,
he stands on a basis of some half-square foot, has to straddle out
his legs lest the very winds supplant him. Nevertheless, he can
use tools, can devise tools: with these the granite mountain melts
into light dust before him: seas are his smooth highway, winds and
fire his unwearying steeds. Nowhere do you find him without tools.
Without tools he is nothing: with tools he is all."
Thomas Carlyle
I was going to make some doors for an enclosed carport but then moved.
Here's a link to instructions for a double door of the kind I was
interested in building:
http://www.woodshopdemos.com/gar-dr-1.htm
You might find some good ideas there. These are basically torsion
boxes, which make sense for great insulation.
Good luck,
H.
"Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
"Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Lawrence A. Ramsey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I would not even think about such. The aluminum or sheet metal ones
> > are so light they are a dream to work with compared to the old heavy
> > wooden ones that rot, warp, swell, sag, etc.
> >
> > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:16:55 -0500, "Austin Franklin"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> > >doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> > >quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> > >suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>
> You might not, but I am ;-) I do not want metal doors. These are custom
> doors, and have special requirements. I do not want to pay $6k each for <
> $1k or material. I also don't believe they will be that difficult...but
> obviously, I will find out.
>
> It's funny how many people I know who will make the most elaborate piece of
> furniture you can imagine, but want nothing to do with a garage door...for
> some reason people believe garage doors are difficult, and I just don't
> believe they are.
Austin,
Questions that come to mind:
What size are the doors going to be?
What kind of special requirements do you have?
Are you thinking about making sections & using standard overhead
garage door hardware or one-piece doors w/ standard one-piece
hardware?
The type of hardware you are going to use would be the most
determining factor of how you make the door slabs or sections and the
size (especially width) & the weight of the doors would be the second
factor.
Doordoc
www.DoorsAndOpeners.com
"Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Austin Franklin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> > > doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> > > quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> > > suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
> >
> > Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
> > a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
> > Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
> > hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
> > available.
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> That's my understanding as well... Frame, with a routed top/bottom for
> middle sections (no route on the top of the top section, and no route on the
> bottom of the bottom section ;-), to mate up with the above/below panel, and
> not let weather in and help with panel alignment...plus each vertical frame
> piece gets mortise/tennon into the top/bottom frame pieces...and at least
> one middle vertical. There's obviously covering on the inside and outside,
> and insulation in be middle. The outside covering should be more
> substantial than the inside...and the hardware gets mounted to the solid
> portion... Not rocket science, which is why I think this is simply no big
> deal to make them. After the frame sections are done, simply add the cedar
> trim I want and voila, garage door sections. I plan on mounting the bolts
> before putting on the outer covering so they are blind.
>
> This is basically the garage door I am talking about making:
>
> http://www.darkroom.com/MiscDocs/GarageDoorDesign_2003_1111.jpg
>
> There is a glass section, which I'll make out of two pieces of thermopane
> (one each side).
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
I made my first post before the others appeared, but it sounds like
you are on the right track. Some manufaturers use a ship lap & some
use a tongue & groove between the sections. The tongue & groove will
let will give you a better seal between the sections. On a 10' wide
door I would recommend that you use at least two if not three middle
verticals.
If you are going to use 15" radius track you should make the sections
2' tall or less. Anything taller will have a harder time going through
the turns of the track.
Depending on the thickness of the door you will may need to get longer
track brackets or space out the jambs to compensate for the door
thickness.
Also it probably wouldn't be a bad idea to put a metal u-bar strut
across the back of each section to keep them from sagging when open.
Before you buy the hardware you should know approximately what the
finished door is going to weigh. There are different grades of
hardware & track for different weights & the spring calculation is
totally dependent on the weight of the door & the size of cable drums
you are using.
If you are going to use an opener you may need to get it from a door
dealer (installed or not installed) that has a rail long enough for a
10' tall door. Most retail openers will only open up to 7'6 w/
standard rail or 8' w/ an extension kit.
Doordoc
"Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi DD,
>
> > If you are going to use 15" radius track you should make the sections
> > 2' tall or less.
>
> OK, I've heard this...but what is the origin of this info? Is it simply
> experience, or is there some calculation that can be done to see what track
> radius I'd need for 30" sections? Is track available with a larger radius?
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
Yes it is mostly from experience (25+ years) & don't know the exact
formula but
A squared + B squared = C squared comes close. Which means the radius
would be close to 21". The theory being that as the section comes out
of the radius (as it is going up) the bottom of the section should be
going into the radius. Therefore the top of the section shouldn't be
trying to pull the bottom section away from the wall while it is still
trying to go straight up.
On 7' tall carriage house doors Clopay uses (3) 28" sections w/ 18"
radius track & they have track up to 32" radius. I don't know about
other mfgs but they would probably also have larger radius. Of course
as the radius gets bigger the more headroom you need above the
opening. Also the bigger the diameter of the drum will make a
difference on the headroom requirement also.
As I stated earlier & another poster also stated the weight is
critical. On doors this size & weight you may also want to use 3"
track & rollers instead of the standard 2". The 3" track may be more
limited in what radius you can get & is not inexpensive when you buy
it separately. Also you will probably want to use 5" cable drums,
since many of the 4" drums are limited to 500 lbs.
I also do not recommend you to wind springs if you have never done it
before. No it is not hard but one slip can be very hazardous to your
health. I've seen experienced techs & installers break fingers,
wrists, noses, & collar bones when being careless, in a hurry, or when
the unexpected happens. Simple theory, if you have to ask how to wind
springs you shouldn't being doing it.
If done right your doors will look & work great. If done wrong they
may look great but will work like crap.
Doordoc
"Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hi DD,
>>
> Er...what about using a top track that only the top of the top door section
> rides in? I believe that's called a low overhead track... Why would I need
> more headroom if I am using the 2nd track?
Didn't know you were using double low headroom track, I see it now in
one of your later post, but I must have missed that earlier. You won't
need more headroom but you will not be able to get a bigger radius on
the lower track. The lower track on 2" will be approx 15" & approx 18"
on 3" track so this will limit the height of the sections. How much
headroom do you have?
I hope you are also aware that if you use the doors by hand the bottom
of the door will naturally hang approx 6" below the header if you use
the doors by hand. You would either need to prop the doors open
manually or would have to use an opener to pull the door fully open.
Depending on the headroom the springs may also need to be mounted in
the rear (behind the end of the horizontal tracks) & if they are not
located properly the opener arm will run into the springs or shaft
before the door gets fully open.
We never use low headroom track unless we have to, but w/ rear mount
torsion the doors can be put in w/ 4" of headroom without an opener.
Doordoc
Jim Wilson <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Doordoc wrote...
> > I also do not recommend you to wind springs if you have never done it
> > before.
>
> I'm interested in this, from a theoretical point of view. How does one
> ever wind springs if one never does it the first time? (Or dismantle a
> bomb, or build an airplane, etc.) How does one go about learning to do a
> potentially dangerous job safely, without asking how?
>
> > No it is not hard but one slip can be very hazardous to your
> > health. I've seen experienced techs & installers break fingers,
> > wrists, noses, & collar bones when being careless, in a hurry, or when
> > the unexpected happens.
>
> I recognize that it is dangerous and should not be done without proper
> precautions, equipment, and perhaps training, but certainly a clear
> understanding of what is to be accomplished and how to do it safely. I
> also understand the admonishment to not take the task lightly. But to
> suggest never doing it a first time doesn't make sense to me.
>
> Please don't interpret this as an attack on you. I'm really just trying
> to understand the mentality behind what I perceive (perhaps wrongly) as
> excessive caution. We hear the same warning all the time. "Don't try this
> at home, folks! Bill here is an expert and has been doing this for 34
> years. He's only been bitten six times!" Sometimes, of course, it is
> something that *should* never be done, but winding heavy springs doesn't
> fit into that category.
>
> > Simple theory, if you have to ask how to wind
> > springs you shouldn't being doing it.
>
> This makes great sense to me. Still, one has to ask in order to reach the
> point that one no longer needs to ask, and can safely accomplish the task
> without doing so. I'd suggest the same thing for, say, ripping a timber
> on a tablesaw.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jim
You can thank the American Court system for the perceived excessive
caution. There has been a number of court cases around the country
where the ruling was that those who give advice on changing or winding
springs can be held personally liable for the personal injuries to
those that don't follow or understand the advice.
Giving a warning along w/ the advice does not relieve the liability.
Either the plaintiff claims ignorance & states they were not warned or
they claim they can not understand why you would explain how to do
something when you obviously knew it was so dangerous. It is a classic
can't win (from our side) example.
This is one of the reasons some of us are so adamant and why many
dealers will not even sell springs for DYI. It has nothing to do w/
not getting the money for the labor as one mocking website claims.
However the main reason is that it truly is dangerous. I equate it to
putting your hand near the end of the barrel of a loaded shotgun &
pulling the trigger when you don't do it properly & w/ the proper
tools. Sometimes you will come out unscathed, other times you may not.
I understand that you can not learn how to do something without
someone explaining it. However since there is not an easy way to judge
one's mechanical ability and/or their comprehension level in
conversation I for one will continue to simply warn people not to do
it & offer no advice whatsoever on how to do so. Many of us feel that
for the consumers safety, our piece of mind, & our financial well
being there can be no gray issues on where we stand.
Thanks for asking!
Doordoc
(He who has no trouble sleeping at night)
[email protected] (Ron Bean) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Doordoc) writes:
>
> >This is one of the reasons some of us are so adamant and why many
> >dealers will not even sell springs for DYI. It has nothing to do w/
> >not getting the money for the labor as one mocking website claims.
> >However the main reason is that it truly is dangerous.
>
> While we're on the subject, can you tell me why torsion springs
> are preferred over extension springs?
>
> The house I grew up in had extension springs so I just assumed
> that's what everyone used.
Extension springs work independent of each other. Therefore the door
will tend to rock back & forth as it opens & closes & sometimes the
door will stay partly open on one side when fully closed. It is also
necessary to install the garage door opener dead center & sometimes
this is not possible without moving lights, fans, or attic access for
some examples.
Torsion springs (except for real old ones that had two separate
shafts) work in tandem & the door will always stay level regardless of
where you pull up & down on the door. We have installed some openers
that are completely outside of the horizontal track when there isn't
room over top of the door.
Also most of the older extension springs did not normally have safety
cables as a common practice & they fly like missiles when the spring
or cable breaks.
There are still some dealers that use extension springs on single car
doors, but normally many of them will use torsion springs on double
car doors.
In my opinion they all work smoother & better with torsion springs
then extension springs, especially as the door ages & parts start to
wear.
Good question!
Doordoc
Austin Franklin wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Austin Franklin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
>>>doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
>>>quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
>>>suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>>
>>Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
>>a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
>>Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
>>hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
>>available.
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> That's my understanding as well... Frame, with a routed top/bottom for
> middle sections (no route on the top of the top section, and no route on the
> bottom of the bottom section ;-), to mate up with the above/below panel, and
> not let weather in and help with panel alignment...plus each vertical frame
> piece gets mortise/tennon into the top/bottom frame pieces...and at least
> one middle vertical. There's obviously covering on the inside and outside,
> and insulation in be middle. The outside covering should be more
> substantial than the inside...and the hardware gets mounted to the solid
> portion... Not rocket science, which is why I think this is simply no big
> deal to make them. After the frame sections are done, simply add the cedar
> trim I want and voila, garage door sections. I plan on mounting the bolts
> before putting on the outer covering so they are blind.
>
> This is basically the garage door I am talking about making:
>
> http://www.darkroom.com/MiscDocs/GarageDoorDesign_2003_1111.jpg
>
> There is a glass section, which I'll make out of two pieces of thermopane
> (one each side).
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
>
Nice design. Save the jigs when you are finished. I may want to build
one too! :)
Tim
On 18-Nov-2003, "Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> These doors are large (plus, they simply can't swing out because of the
> arch), and it'll be tough to hold tolerance...and the bottom of them will
> drag on the floor in order to open them. I just see that as just asking for
> trouble.
I know this is moot, but...
I've never investigated the gory details of such doors, but I know that on some,
the doors are rectangular and the top part that fills the arch is separate. I
believe it can open, but I'm not sure if or how it works.
Mike
"Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi Bill,
>
> > There's nothing wrong with making your own sectional garage doors but I
> don't
> > think your door would compete in price with the ones on the market.
>
> I am getting estimates of $4k+ per door, and I need four of them. I made a
> material list, and they are about $1k each for material.
>
> > I am
> > assuming that you have researched the doors and now know how to make them,
>
> I have an idea of how to make them, but have no experience making garage
> doors...so I was hoping someone here had that experience...
>
> > including safety features such as the one that won't allow the door to
> come down
> > on an obstacle and the springs are adjusted properly without injuring
> someone.
>
> That's got nothing to do with the actual door it self (as in the panels),
> that's something that I'd have to deal with if I bought the doors or make
> them, or had someone else do it.
>
> > All of the door harware including door openers and tracks is readily
> available.
> > Insert "Sectional garage door hardware" into Google and you will see.
>
> Great suggestion, thanks!
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
Hi Austin:
I just noticed higher in the thread that the doors will be installed on a Gothic
1800's era barn. In that case, I don't think sectional doors would be the
appropriate design. I believe that slidding wood doors would be more
appropriate with the modern touches such as automatic openers being hidden.
What's wrong with the old style vertical hung doors that are and have been on
barns for ages then you could hold to the original design.
Bill
Believe it or not, but one of TOH shows had a bit about doors that
looked like they were sliders, but were actually roll up doors. Why not
contavt TOH at www.TOH.com or www.askTOH.com and find out the vender
they used.
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
Austin Franklin wrote...
> Hum. $4k-$6k per door for $1k worth of material somehow doesn't seem like
> insignificant savings
What kind of wood are you planning to use? I just spent over $600 on the
wood alone (160bf - just barely enough) for a new entry door for my
house. Includes two 14" sidelites, though.
Jim
Austin Franklin wrote...
> What was the material for your entry door? I assume it was all solid wood,
> and was clear?
Yes, it is Sapele. First time I've worked with it. I was planning on
mahogany, but would have had to order it sight unseen, and I hate to to
that. My favorite local supplier had this stuff on hand, and I decided to
give it a try.
It's harder and heavier and generally darker than both American (genuine)
and African mahogany, which is not necessarily a good thing for a door.
It has a similar-appearing grain, but like African mahogany, often has
interlocked grain that makes planing without tearout difficult. Good
thing we're going for a distressed look. (G) Whoever thought of that was
a genius.
Interesting, a lot of fine entry doors are made of mahogany or Spanish
cedar. This stuff looks sort of like mahogany and smells sort of like
cedar.
Cheers!
Jim
Doordoc wrote...
> I also do not recommend you to wind springs if you have never done it
> before.
I'm interested in this, from a theoretical point of view. How does one
ever wind springs if one never does it the first time? (Or dismantle a
bomb, or build an airplane, etc.) How does one go about learning to do a
potentially dangerous job safely, without asking how?
> No it is not hard but one slip can be very hazardous to your
> health. I've seen experienced techs & installers break fingers,
> wrists, noses, & collar bones when being careless, in a hurry, or when
> the unexpected happens.
I recognize that it is dangerous and should not be done without proper
precautions, equipment, and perhaps training, but certainly a clear
understanding of what is to be accomplished and how to do it safely. I
also understand the admonishment to not take the task lightly. But to
suggest never doing it a first time doesn't make sense to me.
Please don't interpret this as an attack on you. I'm really just trying
to understand the mentality behind what I perceive (perhaps wrongly) as
excessive caution. We hear the same warning all the time. "Don't try this
at home, folks! Bill here is an expert and has been doing this for 34
years. He's only been bitten six times!" Sometimes, of course, it is
something that *should* never be done, but winding heavy springs doesn't
fit into that category.
> Simple theory, if you have to ask how to wind
> springs you shouldn't being doing it.
This makes great sense to me. Still, one has to ask in order to reach the
point that one no longer needs to ask, and can safely accomplish the task
without doing so. I'd suggest the same thing for, say, ripping a timber
on a tablesaw.
Cheers!
Jim
Doordoc wrote...
> There has been a number of court cases around the country
> where the ruling was that those who give advice on changing or winding
> springs can be held personally liable for the personal injuries to
> those that don't follow or understand the advice.
>...
> Giving a warning along w/ the advice does not relieve the liability.
Interesting! Thanks for the answer.
Jim
Austin Franklin wrote:
> Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making
> garage doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices
> I'm getting quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make
> my own. Any suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience
> appreciated.
I've been following this thread but haven't posted because I didn't have
anything to add.
That may still be true after this message... <g>
I wonder... could tambour be scaled up to garage door size?
-- Mark
This has been discussed quite a few times. The general answer is DON'T.
Too much work for too little savings, plus putzing with the springs is
dangerous.
"Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>
>
You're an asshole afraid of springs. I have an 16'0' x 8'6" door and
have loosened the spring several times and re-tightened it. Nobody ever
told me they were dangerous. I guess around those that don't know how
they work they are lie a bomb.
Here is what you need to do when you build your doors.
Make each section in an assembly line type production. Cut all styles,
rails and panels at one time. I plan on putting my panels behind a 3/8"
beading. I'll first cut this side of the rail and then cut the other
side with the 1/2" x 1/2" rabbit with a tapper somewhat. Then I'll hand
cut the style's tenons that were made on my TS so they fit the rails.
Then assembly os saw horses where the entire door is assembled.
See if you can get a door installer to install your door with the
remaining hardware needed. If not, install the door rails an equal
distance from the opening by using the door as a guide. Make sure it is
perfect up and down. You can leave the rails unattached at the ceiling
until you get the door installed. Put the end pieces on the lower
corners of the bottom section and put the rollers in. Build the door
with sections by adding rollers and sections. Install the spring
assembly above the door with the springs in. Now attach the end of the
ceiling rails so they are perpendicular to the wall and parallel with
each other.
Now to wind the spring. Draw a chalk line across the spring. Using two
long bars, wind the spring so it has the same number of white strips on
it as the height of your door. Lock the spring tight and it should be
about right. Also you'll have to have the door weighed be a door
installer , wherever you get the spring.
>Leon
>This has been discussed quite a few times. The general answer
>is DON'T. Too much work for too little savings, plus putzing with the
>springs is dangerous.
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
Woody pecks out, one last time (my filters slipped):
>You're an asshole afraid of springs. I have an 16'0' x 8'6" door and
>have loosened the spring several times and re-tightened it. Nobody ever
>told me they were dangerous.
So the other guy is an asshole because you're too stupid to know danger when it
stares at you.
Goombye aperture.
Charlie Self
"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use
our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
Danger is there if you only allow it to happen according to the garage
door installer who installed both of my garage doors. You first make
sure your tightening rods are seated in the spring winder. Then turn
1/4 turn and allowing it to rest on the garage door/wall making sure it
is still seated. Then install the second rod and repeat. The installer
who installed my garage doors only had one accident after a 3/4 turn in
the 22 years he has been installing doors. I, listening to his advice,
have unwound and wound my springs over ten time with no accidents. You
just have to know how to avoid danger. Those that don't are assholes.
>So the other guy is an asshole because you're too stupid to know
>danger when it stares at you.
No, he's an asshole because he's afraid to safely attack the situation.
>Goombye aperture.
>Charlie Self
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
[email protected] (Joe "Woody" Woodpecker) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> You're an asshole afraid of springs. I have an 16'0' x 8'6" door and
> have loosened the spring several times and re-tightened it. Nobody ever
> told me they were dangerous. I guess around those that don't know how
> they work they are lie a bomb.
>
One can only wonder why it would be necessary to loosen & re-tighten
springs on the same door several times.
Doordoc
On 17-Nov-2003, [email protected] (Joe "Woody" Woodpecker) wrote:
> You're an asshole afraid of springs.
What a lovely thought.
Meanwhile, I'd say that if you're building your own door, why not do it
the way they did things way-back-when and skip the springs and just
counterweight the door? Rope, pulleys and a few steel/iron plates.
Mike
"Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
--------------------------------------
There's nothing wrong with making your own sectional garage doors but I don't
think your door would compete in price with the ones on the market. I am
assuming that you have researched the doors and now know how to make them,
including safety features such as the one that won't allow the door to come down
on an obstacle and the springs are adjusted properly without injuring someone.
All of the door harware including door openers and tracks is readily available.
Insert "Sectional garage door hardware" into Google and you will see.
Good luck
Bill
Sure you can build your own...and there's several ways to do it. I
build them (at the 6K number you mentioned) for historic and high dollar
homes. I'm not sure where you're located, but it may be worth you while
to talk to some of the door companies in your area. If you're able to
find one that will work with you, life will be much simpler. You'll
need a pro to make sure you get the right hardware. That door is going
to weigh a LOT more that a standard garage door. You'll need rollers
that won't blow out, a spring that will properly counterbalance the door
and track that can safely hold that 700 pound sucker up over your head.
Standard hardware won't work (at least for very long).
Building the door is pretty simple for someone with basic woodworking
skills and tools. Here's a link that shows the construction technique
that I use:
http://midwestgaragedoors.com/const.htm
Forgive the condition of our site, it's been under construction for too
long now. But it may give you a good starting point.
Another link that gives some other construction ideas (if I recall) is:
http://www.garagedoorsinc.com
Your welcome to email me for more info (or if you're in the central
Indiana area, call me to build you a $6,000. door ;~)
Larry L.
Austin Franklin wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>Austin Franklin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
>>>doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
>>>quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
>>>suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>>
>>Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
>>a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
>>Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
>>hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
>>available.
>
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> That's my understanding as well... Frame, with a routed top/bottom for
> middle sections (no route on the top of the top section, and no route on the
> bottom of the bottom section ;-), to mate up with the above/below panel, and
> not let weather in and help with panel alignment...plus each vertical frame
> piece gets mortise/tennon into the top/bottom frame pieces...and at least
> one middle vertical. There's obviously covering on the inside and outside,
> and insulation in be middle. The outside covering should be more
> substantial than the inside...and the hardware gets mounted to the solid
> portion... Not rocket science, which is why I think this is simply no big
> deal to make them. After the frame sections are done, simply add the cedar
> trim I want and voila, garage door sections. I plan on mounting the bolts
> before putting on the outer covering so they are blind.
>
> This is basically the garage door I am talking about making:
>
> http://www.darkroom.com/MiscDocs/GarageDoorDesign_2003_1111.jpg
>
> There is a glass section, which I'll make out of two pieces of thermopane
> (one each side).
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
>
On 17 Nov 2003, Bay Area Dave blathered unto rec.woodworking:
> oops, think I left out some salient details, such as: I wanted the
> hardware in order to remove the electric garage door opener to stop the
> dripping and give me more overhead clearance for wrestling sheet stock
> onto the TS.
Gesundheit.
Leon wrote:
> This has been discussed quite a few times. The general answer is DON'T.
> Too much work for too little savings, plus putzing with the springs is
> dangerous.
If it's a standard door, like a 7x9, go buy a good one and install it
yourself. We got a Clopay, fully insulated and covered for under $350. I
couldn't argue with the price. And it wasn't hard to install.
If it's a special size you may want to make your own. I made my own 9
1/2 x 12 foot bi-fold doors. Works for me.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
oops, think I left out some salient details, such as: I wanted the
hardware in order to remove the electric garage door opener to stop the
dripping and give me more overhead clearance for wrestling sheet stock
onto the TS.
Bay Area Dave wrote:
> on a related note, I just got back from HD where they do NOT carry any
> of the hardware used for pivoting wood garage doors. After finding an
> oil stain on my project from the garage door opener dripping, I tried
> this morning to pick up the locking handle and side locks. All they
> carry is stuff for sectional doors.
snip
Austin Franklin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
available.
Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.
On 17-Nov-2003, "Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> and I really believe wood is appropriate. It's an 1840-1860 Gothic
> Victorian barn (it's new, but I designed it in that style).
If you want the doors to look appropriate for that style, they should
be swinging doors, not a vertical rollup type. I think the latter
would look out of place.
Mike
Bill Ranck responds:
>
>Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
>a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
>Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
>hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
>available.
But what about all the hardware you need--rails, rollers, roller holders,
similar stuff. All adds to the price of the door materials.
I think if I were doing it, I'd build a door similar to one on the first garage
I recall, one where my father and I played catch when I was maybe 10-11. That
was a double swinging door, with windows. Almost certain to be cheaper than the
roll-up door, and easier to construct, with or without windows.
Charlie Self
"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less we use
our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
Austin Franklin wrote:
> > I think if I were doing it, I'd build a door similar to one on the first
> garage
> > I recall, one where my father and I played catch when I was maybe 10-11.
> That
> > was a double swinging door, with windows. Almost certain to be cheaper
> than the
> > roll-up door, and easier to construct, with or without windows.
>
> The doors are 10' wide by 10' tall, and sealing a double door like you're
> suggesting from the weather might be near impossible. But, I like those
> doors, but I think it's impractical for my needs.
I can't even image paying $4k - $6k per door. I found a web site that allows
you to price out Copay doors on-line. A 10' x 10' steel door in my area is
$467. The web site agrees with what I paid locally when I replaced mine. The
site is:
http://homepage.steelbuilding.com/r_doors.htm
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
"Gene" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> All this talk about garage doors brings up a question that I've wondered for
> some time. Growing up in So. California all I can remember were one piece
> doors which rotated from a vertical (closed) to a horiz. position below the
> rafters when opened. When I moved to the east coast, FL then VA, all I see
> are sectional doors that roll up on a track.
>
> Question is: Is it a geographical thing or is what I grew up with in CA just
> the old way?
>
> Gene
>
It is pretty much a geographical thing. They are still used out west
in some areas, but I don't hear much about them being used elsewhere.
Taylor use to have a plant in FL & they were used alot in our areas in
the 60's & 70's but as the demand for them dropped the plant was
closed in the 80's.
Doordoc
www.DoorsAndOpeners.com
The issue is snow. You CAN seal a one-piece door. It's a little bit of
a pain, but I sealed mine fairly well, by placing the seals on the
appropriate surfaces. The bottom half of the door has the seal attached
to the door jamb. The top half has the seal on the door. There is a
section at the pivot point that has an separate piece that bends out of
the way. It's worked remarkably well for about a year now.
dave
Austin Franklin wrote:
> "Gene" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>All this talk about garage doors brings up a question that I've wondered
>
> for
>
>>some time. Growing up in So. California all I can remember were one piece
>>doors which rotated from a vertical (closed) to a horiz. position below
>
> the
>
>>rafters when opened. When I moved to the east coast, FL then VA, all I see
>>are sectional doors that roll up on a track.
>>
>>Question is: Is it a geographical thing or is what I grew up with in CA
>
> just
>
>>the old way?
>
>
> Hi Gene,
>
> I think it's a sealing thing...how do you seal the single piece door well?
> Part of it is outside, and part of it is inside...so there is really no
> surface that you can seal against, unlike the rolling sectional ones, which
> are on a slanted track that can press against the opening (or at least a
> stop in the opening with some sort of seal on it). I guess you could devise
> something for the door you're mentioning...but I think it just wouldn't be
> as good.
>
> That would be my guess...
>
> Regards,
>
> Austin
>
>
It's a snow thing. Ever tried to pivot a one-piece door against a 3
foot snowdrift up against the bottom of the door??
dave
Gene wrote:
> All this talk about garage doors brings up a question that I've wondered for
> some time. Growing up in So. California all I can remember were one piece
> doors which rotated from a vertical (closed) to a horiz. position below the
> rafters when opened. When I moved to the east coast, FL then VA, all I see
> are sectional doors that roll up on a track.
>
> Question is: Is it a geographical thing or is what I grew up with in CA just
> the old way?
>
> Gene
>
> "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Bill Ranck responds:
>>
>>
>>>Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
>>>a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
>>>Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
>>>hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
>>>available.
>>
>>But what about all the hardware you need--rails, rollers, roller holders,
>>similar stuff. All adds to the price of the door materials.
>>
>>I think if I were doing it, I'd build a door similar to one on the first
>
> garage
>
>>I recall, one where my father and I played catch when I was maybe 10-11.
>
> That
>
>>was a double swinging door, with windows. Almost certain to be cheaper
>
> than the
>
>>roll-up door, and easier to construct, with or without windows.
>>
>>Charlie Self
>>"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less
>
> we use
>
>>our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
All this talk about garage doors brings up a question that I've wondered for
some time. Growing up in So. California all I can remember were one piece
doors which rotated from a vertical (closed) to a horiz. position below the
rafters when opened. When I moved to the east coast, FL then VA, all I see
are sectional doors that roll up on a track.
Question is: Is it a geographical thing or is what I grew up with in CA just
the old way?
Gene
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bill Ranck responds:
>
> >
> >Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
> >a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
> >Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
> >hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
> >available.
>
> But what about all the hardware you need--rails, rollers, roller holders,
> similar stuff. All adds to the price of the door materials.
>
> I think if I were doing it, I'd build a door similar to one on the first
garage
> I recall, one where my father and I played catch when I was maybe 10-11.
That
> was a double swinging door, with windows. Almost certain to be cheaper
than the
> roll-up door, and easier to construct, with or without windows.
>
> Charlie Self
> "I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less
we use
> our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Austin Franklin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks, but I don't want steel doors... The doors are going on this
> building:
> http://www.darkroom.com/Images/EqualDoor/BarnFront_2003_1023.jpg
> and I really believe wood is appropriate. It's an 1840-1860 Gothic
> Victorian barn (it's new, but I designed it in that style). Note the
I looked at this picture, and the openings said to me, "firehouse."
I did a Yahoo search for pictures of firehouses, and sure enough
that arched top door style is pretty common in firehouses. Mostly
they seem to have dual swinging doors, though I found one that had
bi-folds during my brief search. Of course, you probably don't
have a bunch of young able-bodied fireman around to keep the
snow cleared from in front of the doors, so probably means
the roll-up is a better choice.
Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.
P.S. one of the pictures I found was of the firehouse
used in the movie "Ghostbusters"
That makes sense. I first noticed it when I moved from So Cal to Florida.
Not a lot of snow to worry about down there.
Are they still using one piece doors in the west?
Gene
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It's a snow thing. Ever tried to pivot a one-piece door against a 3
> foot snowdrift up against the bottom of the door??
>
> dave
>
> Gene wrote:
>
> > All this talk about garage doors brings up a question that I've wondered
for
> > some time. Growing up in So. California all I can remember were one
piece
> > doors which rotated from a vertical (closed) to a horiz. position below
the
> > rafters when opened. When I moved to the east coast, FL then VA, all I
see
> > are sectional doors that roll up on a track.
> >
> > Question is: Is it a geographical thing or is what I grew up with in CA
just
> > the old way?
> >
> > Gene
> >
> > "Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Bill Ranck responds:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
> >>>a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
> >>>Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
> >>>hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
> >>>available.
> >>
> >>But what about all the hardware you need--rails, rollers, roller
holders,
> >>similar stuff. All adds to the price of the door materials.
> >>
> >>I think if I were doing it, I'd build a door similar to one on the first
> >
> > garage
> >
> >>I recall, one where my father and I played catch when I was maybe 10-11.
> >
> > That
> >
> >>was a double swinging door, with windows. Almost certain to be cheaper
> >
> > than the
> >
> >>roll-up door, and easier to construct, with or without windows.
> >>
> >>Charlie Self
> >>"I hope our wisdom will grow with our power, and teach us, that the less
> >
> > we use
> >
> >>our power the greater it will be." Thomas Jefferson
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
> I think if I were doing it, I'd build a door similar to one on the first
garage
> I recall, one where my father and I played catch when I was maybe 10-11.
That
> was a double swinging door, with windows. Almost certain to be cheaper
than the
> roll-up door, and easier to construct, with or without windows.
The doors are 10' wide by 10' tall, and sealing a double door like you're
suggesting from the weather might be near impossible. But, I like those
doors, but I think it's impractical for my needs.
Regards,
Austin
Hi Jack,
> I can't even image paying $4k - $6k per door.
Me either...
> I found a web site that allows
> you to price out Copay doors on-line. A 10' x 10' steel door in my area
is
> $467. The web site agrees with what I paid locally when I replaced mine.
The
> site is:
Thanks, but I don't want steel doors... The doors are going on this
building:
http://www.darkroom.com/Images/EqualDoor/BarnFront_2003_1023.jpg
and I really believe wood is appropriate. It's an 1840-1860 Gothic
Victorian barn (it's new, but I designed it in that style). Note the
"middle" garage door. The blue tape is set-up for 4 panel vs 5 panel doors,
and the 2nd from the top panel is a glass panel....and it looks silly IMO
with it as the 2nd or 3rd panel using 5 panels, so I am going to try to make
a 4 panel door. That means 30" sections...
Regards,
Austin
"Gene" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> All this talk about garage doors brings up a question that I've wondered
for
> some time. Growing up in So. California all I can remember were one piece
> doors which rotated from a vertical (closed) to a horiz. position below
the
> rafters when opened. When I moved to the east coast, FL then VA, all I see
> are sectional doors that roll up on a track.
>
> Question is: Is it a geographical thing or is what I grew up with in CA
just
> the old way?
Hi Gene,
I think it's a sealing thing...how do you seal the single piece door well?
Part of it is outside, and part of it is inside...so there is really no
surface that you can seal against, unlike the rolling sectional ones, which
are on a slanted track that can press against the opening (or at least a
stop in the opening with some sort of seal on it). I guess you could devise
something for the door you're mentioning...but I think it just wouldn't be
as good.
That would be my guess...
Regards,
Austin
Right! Or...a door that swings out...
> It's a snow thing. Ever tried to pivot a one-piece door against a 3
> foot snowdrift up against the bottom of the door??
>
> dave
>
> Gene wrote:
>
> > All this talk about garage doors brings up a question that I've wondered
for
> > some time. Growing up in So. California all I can remember were one
piece
> > doors which rotated from a vertical (closed) to a horiz. position below
the
> > rafters when opened. When I moved to the east coast, FL then VA, all I
see
> > are sectional doors that roll up on a track.
> >
> > Question is: Is it a geographical thing or is what I grew up with in CA
just
> > the old way?
> >
> > Gene
Austin Franklin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here's a picture of the door design I want to make:
> http://www.darkroom.com/MiscDocs/GarageDoorDesign_2003_1111.jpg
> and I believe I can make it in horizontal sections quite easily (note
> section breaks in the drawing). The carriage bolts on the outside are easy
> to hide, behind the cedar trim.
I like the design you have drawn. When I looked at the picture
with the openings I thought roll-up doors would look wrong, but
your design looks quite appropriate.
One thing you might consider would be bi-fold, but I don't
know how you would handle the automatic opener.
> The doors need to open vertically...I don't have room for sliders, be
> automatically operable, and be able to seal well, as we are in New England
> (cold), and the garage is heated (radiant in the 7" cement floor ;-).
Yeah, I think the roll-up is going to be easier to seal. I can sort
of think of ways to seal a bi-fold (folding out) with top and bottom
sealing strips inside, but roll-up would be much easier.
Can't wait to see you post pictures of a finished door.
Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.
that's why they invented apprenticeships.
"Jim Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Doordoc wrote...
> > I also do not recommend you to wind springs if you have never done it
> > before.
>
> I'm interested in this, from a theoretical point of view. How does one
> ever wind springs if one never does it the first time? (Or dismantle a
> bomb, or build an airplane, etc.) How does one go about learning to do a
> potentially dangerous job safely, without asking how?
>
> > No it is not hard but one slip can be very hazardous to your
> > health. I've seen experienced techs & installers break fingers,
> > wrists, noses, & collar bones when being careless, in a hurry, or when
> > the unexpected happens.
>
> I recognize that it is dangerous and should not be done without proper
> precautions, equipment, and perhaps training, but certainly a clear
> understanding of what is to be accomplished and how to do it safely. I
> also understand the admonishment to not take the task lightly. But to
> suggest never doing it a first time doesn't make sense to me.
>
> Please don't interpret this as an attack on you. I'm really just trying
> to understand the mentality behind what I perceive (perhaps wrongly) as
> excessive caution. We hear the same warning all the time. "Don't try this
> at home, folks! Bill here is an expert and has been doing this for 34
> years. He's only been bitten six times!" Sometimes, of course, it is
> something that *should* never be done, but winding heavy springs doesn't
> fit into that category.
>
> > Simple theory, if you have to ask how to wind
> > springs you shouldn't being doing it.
>
> This makes great sense to me. Still, one has to ask in order to reach the
> point that one no longer needs to ask, and can safely accomplish the task
> without doing so. I'd suggest the same thing for, say, ripping a timber
> on a tablesaw.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Jim
Well, I grew up with sagging, rotten, sprung wooden doors. So forgive
me if I don't get excited about it. I do think they look better and
even more so if you HAVE to meet an odd sized opening. It would neat
if you could find some Paulownia cheap; it is super light, doesn't
swell/shrink after drying, very stable wood. They are hard to owrk
with by virtue of their size alone. One man usually can't hanle one
door with making it twist resulting in a sprung door. I like something
I can oick up and move by myself. Look at Sweet's online- they have
some doors in there that will knock your eyes out.
http://www.amarr.com/
http://sweets.construction.com/index/search2.htm?ad_optionals=off&ad_commun=0&ad_pool=keyword&ad_keyword=garage+doors
http://sweets.construction.com/
Do a search on garage doors. They have all the data you need or at
least where to get it.
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 14:36:24 -0500, "Austin Franklin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Lawrence A. Ramsey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I would not even think about such. The aluminum or sheet metal ones
>> are so light they are a dream to work with compared to the old heavy
>> wooden ones that rot, warp, swell, sag, etc.
>>
>> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:16:55 -0500, "Austin Franklin"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
>> >doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
>> >quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
>> >suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>
>You might not, but I am ;-) I do not want metal doors. These are custom
>doors, and have special requirements. I do not want to pay $6k each for <
>$1k or material. I also don't believe they will be that difficult...but
>obviously, I will find out.
>
>It's funny how many people I know who will make the most elaborate piece of
>furniture you can imagine, but want nothing to do with a garage door...for
>some reason people believe garage doors are difficult, and I just don't
>believe they are.
>
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:52:04 GMT, Jim Wilson <[email protected]>
scribbled
>Doordoc wrote...
>> I also do not recommend you to wind springs if you have never done it
>> before.
<snip>
>> Simple theory, if you have to ask how to wind
>> springs you shouldn't being doing it.
>
>This makes great sense to me. Still, one has to ask in order to reach the
>point that one no longer needs to ask, and can safely accomplish the task
>without doing so. I'd suggest the same thing for, say, ripping a timber
>on a tablesaw.
On tensioning your own garage door springs, see the thread about a
year ago:
DAGS on "Torsion spring for garage door opener"
http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=Xns92A3E874E6B02someconundrum%40216.166.71.230
This individual did it on his own & posted how he did it on the web:
http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" twice
in reply address for real email address
"Man is a tool-using animal. Weak in himself and of small stature,
he stands on a basis of some half-square foot, has to straddle out
his legs lest the very winds supplant him. Nevertheless, he can
use tools, can devise tools: with these the granite mountain melts
into light dust before him: seas are his smooth highway, winds and
fire his unwearying steeds. Nowhere do you find him without tools.
Without tools he is nothing: with tools he is all."
Thomas Carlyle
on a related note, I just got back from HD where they do NOT carry any
of the hardware used for pivoting wood garage doors. After finding an
oil stain on my project from the garage door opener dripping, I tried
this morning to pick up the locking handle and side locks. All they
carry is stuff for sectional doors.
No one in our area buys wooden doors any longer. They get metal
sectionals, usually with windows, and insulation, esp if facing west or
south.
dave
Austin Franklin wrote:
> Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>
>
Check Overhead Door and Wayne-Dalton. I built a couple of garage doors
a few years back and bought parts from those folks.
Boden
Austin Franklin wrote:
> Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>
>
On 17-Nov-2003, "Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Here's a picture of the door design I want to make:
So you get the look of a swinging door with the function of the vertical
- disregard my earlier post then.
> The doors need to open vertically...I don't have room for sliders,
Interesting difference between where I live (Southern Ontario) and New
England. The buildings around here in that style would more likely have
swinging than sliding. A vet's barn comes to mind - late 1890's
construction.
Mike
BTW - that's going to be a great looking building when finished!
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:16:55 -0500, "Austin Franklin"
<[email protected]> scribbled
>Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
>doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
>quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
>suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
I made my gara^H^H^H^H shop doors, four hinged panels opening
vertically (like regular doors) 11 or 12 years ago. So I used regular
door hinges (ball bearing, 3 to a panel). The have lasted up to now,
no problems, although they are desperately crying out for a new coat
of finish.
Construction method was a sandwich of two 1/8 lauan door skins
(plywood) and 1-1/2" styrofoam. The edges were 1-1/2" by 1-1/2"
western red cedar. Everything glued together with Weldbond (I don't
think other "weatherproof" catalyzed PVA glues like Titebond II were
available then, at least not in my neck of the woods.) Also put in
some cedar blocks where the hardware would need to be (e.g.for door
knobs).
To make it look like a frame and panel construction, I glued suitably
edge-moulded 1X cedar on the outside of the panel. (3/4 X 3" for the
stiles and top and middle rail, 5" for the bottom rail. So the total
thickness is 2-1/2 inches.
To prevent air infiltration (very important, I'm in the Yukon), I just
glued a 1X4 to the vertical edges on the inside. The 1X4 overlaps the
adjacent panel by about 1". Regular weatherstripping on the frame.
The main problems in construction were keeping them flat and ensuring
sufficient clamping pressure, especially in the middle. To keep them
flat, I made a temporary 2X4 and plywood table and added a few sheets
of drywall & plywood on it. For the pressure, I made 4 cauls (slightly
longer than the doors) out of the best straight SPF 2X4s I could find.
I hand-planed a slight convex curve to them (about 1/4" down at each
end), so that when I applied pressure to the clamps at each end, the
pressure would be applied in the middle first, and by the time the
clamps were reefed down, there was pressure the full length of the
door.
Of course, I can't use an automatic garage door opener, but like
Charlie is quite rightly fond of saying, cars are made to stay
outside.
HTH
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" twice
in reply address for real email address
"Man is a tool-using animal. Weak in himself and of small stature,
he stands on a basis of some half-square foot, has to straddle out
his legs lest the very winds supplant him. Nevertheless, he can
use tools, can devise tools: with these the granite mountain melts
into light dust before him: seas are his smooth highway, winds and
fire his unwearying steeds. Nowhere do you find him without tools.
Without tools he is nothing: with tools he is all."
Thomas Carlyle
I would not even think about such. The aluminum or sheet metal ones
are so light they are a dream to work with compared to the old heavy
wooden ones that rot, warp, swell, sag, etc.
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:16:55 -0500, "Austin Franklin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
>doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
>quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
>suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>
Depends on how they are built. I need a garage door that is 6'0" x
6'8". Go to your local garage door company and all they got is 8' wide
stuff. OK, I got an 8'0" x 8'6" door and they can't even supply that
one. All the one company did is add another panel, but this can't be
done with a metal door because the complete door is packed in a box.
So, I plan on building my own. Only I will use mortice and tenon
joints. Copying my wood garage doors should be easy.
--
Woody
Check out my Web Page at:
http://community-1.webtv.net/WoodworkerJoe/WoodworkerJoesInfo
Where you will find:
******** How My Shop Works ******** 5-21-03
* * * Build a $20 DC Separator Can Lid. 1-14-03
* * * DC Relay Box Building Plans. 1-14-03
* * * The Bad Air Your Breath Everyday.1-14-03
* * * What is a Real Woodworker? 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Definitions. 2-8-03
* * * Murphy's Woodworking Laws. 4-6-03
* * * What is the true meaning of life? 1-14-03
* * * Woodworker Shop Signs. 2-8-03
On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:26:44 -0500, Austin Franklin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Swing would be fine as well, but again, sealing them would be a bear, as
> well as automating them. I also think they have to swign out (as the car is
> on the inside), and with the arch, that would be a problem.
>
If you can solve the swinging problem (which I'd have to see firsthand,
but shouldn't be too difficult), you then just need an automatic
swinging gate opener.
Many houses around here have them, so that the owner can feel secure,
even though it'd be simple to just walk AROUND said gate if one had
nefarious intent.
"Lawrence A. Ramsey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I would not even think about such. The aluminum or sheet metal ones
> are so light they are a dream to work with compared to the old heavy
> wooden ones that rot, warp, swell, sag, etc.
>
> On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 13:16:55 -0500, "Austin Franklin"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> >doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> >quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> >suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
You might not, but I am ;-) I do not want metal doors. These are custom
doors, and have special requirements. I do not want to pay $6k each for <
$1k or material. I also don't believe they will be that difficult...but
obviously, I will find out.
It's funny how many people I know who will make the most elaborate piece of
furniture you can imagine, but want nothing to do with a garage door...for
some reason people believe garage doors are difficult, and I just don't
believe they are.
Hum. $4k-$6k per door for $1k worth of material somehow doesn't seem like
insignificant savings, especially when I have to make four. I am simply
making the door sections, putting them up is an entirely other subject,
whether I make them or not.
OK, so it's been discussed...has anyone here actually tried to MAKE a garage
door?
Regards,
Austin
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This has been discussed quite a few times. The general answer is DON'T.
> Too much work for too little savings, plus putzing with the springs is
> dangerous.
>
>
> "Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> > doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> > quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> > suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
> >
> >
>
>
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Austin Franklin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Anyone have any information, or know of any resources, for making garage
> > doors? I mean, it can't be rocket science...and the prices I'm getting
> > quoted are outrageous...so I think I want to try to make my own. Any
> > suggestions (other than don't do it ;-) or experience appreciated.
>
> Well, I've never done it, but if you are talking about making
> a sectional door it's just a series of frame and panel sections.
> Sort of like long narrow cabinet doors laid on their sides. The
> hardware to join the section is pretty much standard and readily
> available.
Hi Bill,
That's my understanding as well... Frame, with a routed top/bottom for
middle sections (no route on the top of the top section, and no route on the
bottom of the bottom section ;-), to mate up with the above/below panel, and
not let weather in and help with panel alignment...plus each vertical frame
piece gets mortise/tennon into the top/bottom frame pieces...and at least
one middle vertical. There's obviously covering on the inside and outside,
and insulation in be middle. The outside covering should be more
substantial than the inside...and the hardware gets mounted to the solid
portion... Not rocket science, which is why I think this is simply no big
deal to make them. After the frame sections are done, simply add the cedar
trim I want and voila, garage door sections. I plan on mounting the bolts
before putting on the outer covering so they are blind.
This is basically the garage door I am talking about making:
http://www.darkroom.com/MiscDocs/GarageDoorDesign_2003_1111.jpg
There is a glass section, which I'll make out of two pieces of thermopane
(one each side).
Regards,
Austin
Hi Bill,
> There's nothing wrong with making your own sectional garage doors but I
don't
> think your door would compete in price with the ones on the market.
I am getting estimates of $4k+ per door, and I need four of them. I made a
material list, and they are about $1k each for material.
> I am
> assuming that you have researched the doors and now know how to make them,
I have an idea of how to make them, but have no experience making garage
doors...so I was hoping someone here had that experience...
> including safety features such as the one that won't allow the door to
come down
> on an obstacle and the springs are adjusted properly without injuring
someone.
That's got nothing to do with the actual door it self (as in the panels),
that's something that I'd have to deal with if I bought the doors or make
them, or had someone else do it.
> All of the door harware including door openers and tracks is readily
available.
> Insert "Sectional garage door hardware" into Google and you will see.
Great suggestion, thanks!
Regards,
Austin
Hi Bill,
> I just noticed higher in the thread that the doors will be installed on a
Gothic
> 1800's era barn. In that case, I don't think sectional doors would be the
> appropriate design. I believe that slidding wood doors would be more
> appropriate with the modern touches such as automatic openers being
hidden.
> What's wrong with the old style vertical hung doors that are and have been
on
> barns for ages then you could hold to the original design.
Here's a picture of the door design I want to make:
http://www.darkroom.com/MiscDocs/GarageDoorDesign_2003_1111.jpg
and I believe I can make it in horizontal sections quite easily (note
section breaks in the drawing). The carriage bolts on the outside are easy
to hide, behind the cedar trim.
The doors need to open vertically...I don't have room for sliders, be
automatically operable, and be able to seal well, as we are in New England
(cold), and the garage is heated (radiant in the 7" cement floor ;-).
Regards,
Austin
Hi Mike,
> > Here's a picture of the door design I want to make:
>
> So you get the look of a swinging door with the function of the vertical
> - disregard my earlier post then.
That was my hope ;-)
> > The doors need to open vertically...I don't have room for sliders,
>
> Interesting difference between where I live (Southern Ontario) and New
> England. The buildings around here in that style would more likely have
> swinging than sliding. A vet's barn comes to mind - late 1890's
> construction.
Swing would be fine as well, but again, sealing them would be a bear, as
well as automating them. I also think they have to swign out (as the car is
on the inside), and with the arch, that would be a problem.
> Mike
>
> BTW - that's going to be a great looking building when finished!
Thank you very much. You should see the railings I did on the top and back
sides ;-)
Regards,
Austin
Hi DD,
> If you are going to use 15" radius track you should make the sections
> 2' tall or less.
OK, I've heard this...but what is the origin of this info? Is it simply
experience, or is there some calculation that can be done to see what track
radius I'd need for 30" sections? Is track available with a larger radius?
Regards,
Austin
Hi Jim,
"Jim Wilson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Austin Franklin wrote...
> > Hum. $4k-$6k per door for $1k worth of material somehow doesn't seem
like
> > insignificant savings
>
> What kind of wood are you planning to use? I just spent over $600 on the
> wood alone (160bf - just barely enough) for a new entry door for my
> house. Includes two 14" sidelites, though.
Well, the frame is basically hemfir or something like that...and the inside
covering is an exterior grade thin plywood. The outside covering is yet to
be determined, but the trim boards are cedar. We are thinking of using
mahogany for the bottom frame piece.
What was the material for your entry door? I assume it was all solid wood,
and was clear?
Regards,
Austin
Hi DD,
> The theory being that as the section comes out
> of the radius (as it is going up) the bottom of the section should be
> going into the radius. Therefore the top of the section shouldn't be
> trying to pull the bottom section away from the wall while it is still
> trying to go straight up.
Exactly what I figured...thanks for confirming that!
> Of course
> as the radius gets bigger the more headroom you need above the
> opening.
Er...what about using a top track that only the top of the top door section
rides in? I believe that's called a low overhead track... Why would I need
more headroom if I am using the 2nd track?
> Also the bigger the diameter of the drum will make a
> difference on the headroom requirement also.
That I buy ;-)
> As I stated earlier & another poster also stated the weight is
> critical. On doors this size & weight you may also want to use 3"
> track & rollers instead of the standard 2".
> Also you will probably want to use 5" cable drums,
> since many of the 4" drums are limited to 500 lbs.
Thanks great suggestions.
> Simple theory, if you have to ask how to wind
> springs you shouldn't being doing it.
I will have someone do that for me.
Thanks again for all your help.
Regards,
Austin
"Luigi Zanasi" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 18 Nov 2003 07:26:44 -0500, "Austin Franklin"
> <[email protected]> scribbled
>
> >Swing would be fine as well, but again, sealing them would be a bear, as
> >well as automating them. I also think they have to swign out (as the car
is
> >on the inside), and with the arch, that would be a problem.
>
> I don't think sealing outside swinging doors is a problem.
These doors are large (plus, they simply can't swing out because of the
arch), and it'll be tough to hold tolerance...and the bottom of them will
drag on the floor in order to open them. I just see that as just asking for
trouble.
> Like others, I think swinging doors would be more in keeping with the
> design of the building, and you're going to have a hard time
> concealing the horizontal breaks.
Except, I can't open the doors both because of the arch...and because of 3'
of snow on them ;-)
Regards,
Austin
"Michael Daly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 18-Nov-2003, "Austin Franklin" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > These doors are large (plus, they simply can't swing out because of the
> > arch), and it'll be tough to hold tolerance...and the bottom of them
will
> > drag on the floor in order to open them. I just see that as just asking
for
> > trouble.
>
> I know this is moot, but...
>
> I've never investigated the gory details of such doors, but I know that on
some,
> the doors are rectangular and the top part that fills the arch is
separate. I
> believe it can open, but I'm not sure if or how it works.
Hi Mike,
Yeah, I thought about that...but I want the extra height that the arch
offers, so we are making them part of the door. Believe me, separating them
would make things a LOT easier, simply because we have very low headroom...
Regards,
Austin
Hi DD,
> You won't
> need more headroom but you will not be able to get a bigger radius on
> the lower track. The lower track on 2" will be approx 15" & approx 18"
> on 3" track so this will limit the height of the sections. How much
> headroom do you have?
I'll use 3" track, per your suggestion...if I can find it. I have 6" of
headroom.
> I hope you are also aware that if you use the doors by hand the bottom
> of the door will naturally hang approx 6" below the header if you use
> the doors by hand. You would either need to prop the doors open
> manually or would have to use an opener to pull the door fully open.
They will eventually have a motorized opener...they will be heavy, I am
sure...
> Depending on the headroom the springs may also need to be mounted in
> the rear (behind the end of the horizontal tracks) & if they are not
> located properly the opener arm will run into the springs or shaft
> before the door gets fully open.
OK, thanks for the great info, once again.
> We never use low headroom track unless we have to, but w/ rear mount
> torsion the doors can be put in w/ 4" of headroom without an opener.
Wow, I've been told I can't even do it with 6" of clearance, but I refuse to
believe that, and you have confirmed that it is possible.
Regards,
Austin
[email protected] (Doordoc) writes:
>This is one of the reasons some of us are so adamant and why many
>dealers will not even sell springs for DYI. It has nothing to do w/
>not getting the money for the labor as one mocking website claims.
>However the main reason is that it truly is dangerous.
While we're on the subject, can you tell me why torsion springs
are preferred over extension springs?
The house I grew up in had extension springs so I just assumed
that's what everyone used.