Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop and
wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am planning on two
rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and was thinking
about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such a
thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
have very much natural light as it is a basement shop. What works for you
guys?
Thanks in advance,
Blair
Blair
>Shop lighting?
What works for you guys?
I have several ceiling fixtures and am addng more. But what It is having the
fixtures split among 4 lighting circuits. Each fixture is 4 bulb and the 4
bulbs are split among 2 circuits. Real nice. I did however wire in all this
when the shop was being built.
Bob AZ
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 21:45:33 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>
>> I picked up a HALdeluxe from the Borg (via phone in NorCal) for $16
>
>This is real? Wow, I guess I should get with the times and stuff.
>
>Or not... No, I have too many things on the someday list as it is.
Think about the 8' High Output Cold Start lamps. The bulbs are only $1
more then the 4' at Lowes. Yea the inital fixture price ($50) is more
but you won't need as many. Get the tube covers too just in case of
an accidental bumping with a piece of wood, etc.
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:20:05 -0500, "Blair Chesterton"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop and
>wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am planning on two
>rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and was thinking
>about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such a
>thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
>have very much natural light as it is a basement shop. What works for you
>guys?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Blair
>
The more the better. I installed a row of fluorescent lamps on the
ceiling, then later added incandescent task lighting for each tool
station (drill press, lathe, chop saw, grinder). The inexpensive
drafting lamps with the flexible arms that swivel work great and they
are only $7 to $15 each. I made my own L-shaped holders from 2x4
scraps screwed into the wall.
Blair Chesterton <[email protected]> wrote:
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop and
> wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am planning on two
> rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and was thinking
> about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such a
> thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
> have very much natural light as it is a basement shop. What works for you
> guys?
> Thanks in advance,
> Blair
I built a 30x40 shop last year and use a total of 8 4' T8 fixtures to light
it. I put in a total of 16 outlets in the ceiling in case I wanted more light
but so far it's been plenty bright enough. I also have bright white walls/
ceiling and painted the concrete floor a very light blue so there's lot of
reflected light as well. The T8 flouresent bulbs are much brighter than
the older ones were.
Lance
Jim Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
> 39 x 13 = 507 sf; 507 / 15 = 34 tubes, or 17 fixtures.
> By the way, 40 watts per 15 square feet is 2.7 watts per square foot.
> Some lighting designers use 2 watts per square foot as a lower bound,
> which yields 20 square feet per 40W tube.
> 507 / 20 = 25 tubes, or 13 fixtures.
This seems like a lot more light than what would normally be needed or
used. Another way to determine how much you need to go visit some
commercial buildings and find one with the amount of lighting you
like. Then you can simply count ceiling tiles and bulbs to figure
out how much you need. For instance, in the building I'm in now there
are 3 4' bulbs every 256 square feet (every 8 ceiling tiles). That
means each bulb is lighting approximately 85 square feet. As I mentioned
in a previous post, I use 16 bulbs at home to light my 1200 square foot
shop which means each bulb is lighting roughly 75 square feet. I also
use the newer, brighter T8 bulbs at home so it's noticably brighter.
Given this, I believe you could easily light your shop with 6-8
total bulbs. I think if you had 26 bulbs in 500 square feet, youd need
a welding helmet to enter the building :-)
Lance
Lawrence A. Ramsey <[email protected]> wrote:
> Don't forgett that the height of the room enters into the matter. I
> used 3 watts psf when I figured rooms but that was an 8' room.
That's a good point. The building I'm in currently (with 1 4' bulb
per ~85 square feet), has 12 foot ceilings (was originally designed
for manufacturing). My shop at home (with 1 T8 4' bulb per ~75
square feet) has 10' walls and a 14' peek (it's a gable roof w/o
trusses). It's probably a personal preference thing, but I think
both are more than bright enough for me. In fact, I have the 8 light
fixtures in my shop on 4 switches and often only use the two middle
ones for most things. I also only have two small (3x4) windows so
I'm not getting a lot of outside light. As I mentioned earlier,
reflective surfaces (walls,ceiling,floor, tables, etc) really
help.
Lance
> On 19 Nov 2003 13:45:48 -0700, Lance Spaulding
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Jim Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> 39 x 13 = 507 sf; 507 / 15 = 34 tubes, or 17 fixtures.
>>
>>> By the way, 40 watts per 15 square feet is 2.7 watts per square foot.
>>> Some lighting designers use 2 watts per square foot as a lower bound,
>>> which yields 20 square feet per 40W tube.
>>
>>> 507 / 20 = 25 tubes, or 13 fixtures.
>>
>>This seems like a lot more light than what would normally be needed or
>>used. Another way to determine how much you need to go visit some
>>commercial buildings and find one with the amount of lighting you
>>like. Then you can simply count ceiling tiles and bulbs to figure
>>out how much you need. For instance, in the building I'm in now there
>>are 3 4' bulbs every 256 square feet (every 8 ceiling tiles). That
>>means each bulb is lighting approximately 85 square feet. As I mentioned
>>in a previous post, I use 16 bulbs at home to light my 1200 square foot
>>shop which means each bulb is lighting roughly 75 square feet. I also
>>use the newer, brighter T8 bulbs at home so it's noticably brighter.
>>Given this, I believe you could easily light your shop with 6-8
>>total bulbs. I think if you had 26 bulbs in 500 square feet, youd need
>>a welding helmet to enter the building :-)
>>
>>Lance
Blair Chesterton wrote:
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop
> about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such
Your shop is a tad more than twice the size of mine, and you're planning
more than twice the lighting, so that's probably a comfortable minimum
starting place.
> a thing as too much?
Unless you have to wear sunglasses in the shop, you don't have too much
lighting.
Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
I'd be thinking more rows, maybe fewer fixtures per row. Maybe some
incandescent task lighting in areas of focus. You want the light to come
from as many angles as possible, so you avoid shadows. Especially in the
finishing area.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Ok, as far as the lighting go's I have decided to go with three rows of
seven (two bulb) fixtures and some task lighting where I need it. Now,
another question I have is with my options for frost line insulation in the
shop. I have the standard four foot fiberglass insulation and I am thinking
of removing it because it looks like crap. I am looking for suggestions
about replacement materials. I don't want to cut into the shop anymore than
I have to so thickness is important.
Thanks again guys,
Blair
Blair Chesterton wrote...
> Are their any lighting specialists out there?
I am not a lighting expert, but I have done a little lighting design for
my home and shop, and am pleased with the results. I spent a good deal of
time researching the subject, though, and it was time well spent.
In the shop, you want every work surface to receive 100 foot candles from
the general lighting alone. A foot candle is one lumen per square foot.
Additional task lighting is often desirable at individual work stations.
The 100 foot candles is what you want *after* losses. The major sources
of loss are fixture inefficiency, lamp age, dust on lamps, and wall and
ceiling reflectivity. Together, 8-10' ceilings, 3' work surfaces, and
typical values for the aforementioned losses result in almost exactly a
50% reduction in the initial luminance of your lamps.
Fluorescent tubes typically supply 60-80 lumens per watt. A 40W tube, the
most common and cost effective option, typically puts out about 3000
lumens when new. Accounting for the aforementioned losses, each tube will
actually put about 1500 lumens on the work surface. Since you need 100
lumens per square foot, a tube will illuminate 15 square feet.
> I have a 39' by 13' shop and
> wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good.
39 x 13 = 507 sf; 507 / 15 = 34 tubes, or 17 fixtures.
By the way, 40 watts per 15 square feet is 2.7 watts per square foot.
Some lighting designers use 2 watts per square foot as a lower bound,
which yields 20 square feet per 40W tube.
507 / 20 = 25 tubes, or 13 fixtures.
> I am planning on two
> rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips
Not enough, really. You'd be better off with at least two rows of seven
fixtures, or perhaps seven rows of two.
For a rectangular area, you can run the rows parallel to the long edge or
parallel to the short edge. Sometimes the choice is dictated by other
design considerations, such as dust collection ducting or other
obstructions. If not, be sure to consider both ways. You can often get
more uniform lighting by running a higher number of shorter rows.
Two rows of nine (or six rows of three) would not be too much. Five rows
of three or two rows of eight would be a reasonable middle ground.
> and was thinking about some incandescent as well.
A good idea for areas where you finish pieces that will be used indoors.
Fluorescent lighting has different color characteristics, and the color
of a piece can "change," sometimes dramatically and unpleasantly, when
brought from the shop to it's final destination.
> Is their such a thing as too much?
Yes, but it's never been witnessed. (G) Seriously, though, you probably
don't want to spend more than necessary on electricity.
Cheers!
Jim
Lance Spaulding wrote...
> Jim Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > 39 x 13 = 507 sf; 507 / 15 = 34 tubes, or 17 fixtures.
>
> > By the way, 40 watts per 15 square feet is 2.7 watts per square foot.
> > Some lighting designers use 2 watts per square foot as a lower bound,
> > which yields 20 square feet per 40W tube.
>
> > 507 / 20 = 25 tubes, or 13 fixtures.
>
> This seems like a lot more light than what would normally be needed or
> used.
Perhaps it does seem that way, but it is the way professional lighting
designers do it. I'm pretty happy with how it works in my shop, which
certainly does not seem too bright. I also have white walls and ceiling.
> Another way to determine how much you need to go visit some
> commercial buildings and find one with the amount of lighting you
> like.
This can be hit and miss. Many commercial places do not use the same type
of lighting, many are visited only during the day so natural light
obscures the level of artificial illumination. Many have adequate light
for their intended purposes, when that level is less than ideal for
woodworking.
> For instance, in the building I'm in now there
> are 3 4' bulbs every 256 square feet (every 8 ceiling tiles). That
> means each bulb is lighting approximately 85 square feet.
Sounds like an office space, which has a much lower need for light than
woodcraft.
> Given this, I believe you could easily light your shop with 6-8
> total bulbs.
Of course, this would illuminate the room, but will it be bright enough
for comfortable work? Perhaps for some folks, but for most, it is not
enough.
> I think if you had 26 bulbs in 500 square feet, youd need
> a welding helmet to enter the building :-)
I have 26 40W tubes in 560 square feet. It's definitely not too much;
there are a few areas where there's not quite enough light. A tour of my
shop can be found here:
http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/shop_pics/
All these photos were taken at night. By and large, there is enough
general lighting for me, but I still need task lighting when doing detail
work, especially at the lathes and mill. The corners, especially
the "cabinet corner"
(http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/shop_pics/shop22.htm)
are too dark.
Jim
RWatson767 wrote...
> Blair
> >Shop lighting?
>
> What works for you guys?
I have 13 four-foot, twin-tube fluorescent fixtures in my 560sf shop for
general lighting, on two dedicated lighting circuits. Each circuit
controls about 1/2 the fixtures, in a checkerboard pattern. I almost
never use just one of the circuits, though; only when I go out just to
get something for the house.
Jim
Jim Wilson writes:
>I have 13 four-foot, twin-tube fluorescent fixtures in my 560sf shop for
>general lighting, on two dedicated lighting circuits. Each circuit
>controls about 1/2 the fixtures, in a checkerboard pattern. I almost
>never use just one of the circuits, though; only when I go out just to
>get something for the house.
I've got 16--4 banks of 4--dual 4' tubes, plus a row of 8 150 and 200 watt
incandescents up the center in a 25' x 48' shop. There are still a few dim
spots, so when I get back home--soon, I hope--I've got 4 more 2 tube and one 4
tube I plan to install, one of which will be directly over my Unisaw (the 4
tube). Theya re set up on 3 switches, one for the incandescents, and one for
each side of the shop with the fluorescents. I sometimes don't use the
incandescents, but almost always use both rows of fluors.
Charlie Self
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages
of making a disagreeable person keep his distance." Ambrose Bierce
Charlie Self wrote...
> I've got 16--4 banks of 4--dual 4' tubes, plus a row of 8 150 and 200 watt
> incandescents up the center in a 25' x 48' shop. There are still a few dim
> spots, so when I get back home--soon, I hope--I've got 4 more 2 tube and
> one 4 tube I plan to install, one of which will be directly over my Unisaw
> (the 4 tube). Theya re set up on 3 switches, one for the incandescents,
> and one for each side of the shop with the fluorescents. I sometimes don't
> use the incandescents, but almost always use both rows of fluors.
How high is your ceiling, Charlie? (Mine's just over 8')
Do you know how much light your incandescents supply, or what they were
rated for new, in lumens?
And do I recall correctly your previously posting that is white? Walls
and ceiling?
Jim
Sure could use a 1200sf shop!
Jim Wilson asks:
>> one 4 tube I plan to install, one of which will be directly over my Unisaw
>> (the 4 tube). Theya re set up on 3 switches, one for the incandescents,
>> and one for each side of the shop with the fluorescents. I sometimes don't
>> use the incandescents, but almost always use both rows of fluors.
>
>How high is your ceiling, Charlie? (Mine's just over 8')
>
>Do you know how much light your incandescents supply, or what they were
>rated for new, in lumens?
>
>And do I recall correctly your previously posting that is white? Walls
>and ceiling?
Ceiling is 9', which was my goof--I set one post so that was the upper limit of
the whole shop. Ceiling is semi-gloss white (I think gloss glares too much).
Currently, the walls are OSB chip colored, along with pegboard colored
(natural, not the white), and hanging tool colored. That will change if I ever
get out of WV.
I haven't any idea how many lumens the lights kick out. They're your basic
Lowe's (or HD, I don't really recall) 18 buck fixtures, with the cheap bulbs.
>Sure could use a 1200sf shop!
Me, too, if I can ever get back there. Trying to operate out of a 300sf garage
with one 20 amp circuit is not the hot set-up. I didn't realize how spoiled I
had gotten until I got back into trying to setup and work for myself again. One
helluva lot of difference with 4 times the size, plus a 200 amp Square D box.
Anyway, I think we're really far enough along to get this house on the market
late next week. After that, who knows?
Charlie Self
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages
of making a disagreeable person keep his distance." Ambrose Bierce
On 20 Nov 2003 17:18:32 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>Trying to operate out of a 300sf garage
>with one 20 amp circuit is not the hot set-up. I didn't realize how spoiled I
>had gotten until I got back into trying to setup and work for myself again. One
>helluva lot of difference with 4 times the size, plus a 200 amp Square D box.
Well Charlie, At 12'X16', I've got only 192 square feet. Bummer.
Fed by a measly 8 twenty-amp circuits. Neener-neener-neener. ;)
However;
I'm wondering about the wisdom of my designing one 16-ft wall with
three windows in it. (Too late to change it now, construction's
almost done.) As I get closer to finishing construction and give more
serious thought to where everything's going to go, I'm remembering-- I
hope correctly-- that in one or your books you advocated windowless
workshops. I really felt I had to put them in since the view was so
nice, (one of those "feed your soul" things), but man I gotta admit
some extra wall space sure woulda been nice.
You still feel the same way about windows or has your opinion changed
over time?
Best,
Michael
Michael Baglio asks:
>You still feel the same way about windows or has your opinion changed
>over time?
Pretty much the same. For me, windows are more of a PITA than anything else. I
put windows in opposing corners of my shop, two on each side, two on each end,
then pulled one out up front (allows too good a view of what's in the shop).
They allow a nice breeze on some days, but also provide the space to hold some
small window AC units (should have put proper central air in...VA in summer is
not fun without AC).
But otherwise, the windows change the nature of light as the sun moves across
the sky, both daily and on its annual travels. It hinders getting clear shots
when you're taking pictures, too, screwing up both the color balance and the
exposure.
So, for the most part, I don't care much for windows and I flat love extra wall
space (not that there's ever enough).
Charlie Self
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages
of making a disagreeable person keep his distance." Ambrose Bierce
What is get out of the WV?
Blair
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jim Wilson asks:
>
> >> one 4 tube I plan to install, one of which will be directly over my
Unisaw
> >> (the 4 tube). Theya re set up on 3 switches, one for the incandescents,
> >> and one for each side of the shop with the fluorescents. I sometimes
don't
> >> use the incandescents, but almost always use both rows of fluors.
> >
> >How high is your ceiling, Charlie? (Mine's just over 8')
> >
> >Do you know how much light your incandescents supply, or what they were
> >rated for new, in lumens?
> >
> >And do I recall correctly your previously posting that is white? Walls
> >and ceiling?
>
> Ceiling is 9', which was my goof--I set one post so that was the upper
limit of
> the whole shop. Ceiling is semi-gloss white (I think gloss glares too
much).
> Currently, the walls are OSB chip colored, along with pegboard colored
> (natural, not the white), and hanging tool colored. That will change if I
ever
> get out of WV.
>
> I haven't any idea how many lumens the lights kick out. They're your basic
> Lowe's (or HD, I don't really recall) 18 buck fixtures, with the cheap
bulbs.
>
> >Sure could use a 1200sf shop!
>
> Me, too, if I can ever get back there. Trying to operate out of a 300sf
garage
> with one 20 amp circuit is not the hot set-up. I didn't realize how
spoiled I
> had gotten until I got back into trying to setup and work for myself
again. One
> helluva lot of difference with 4 times the size, plus a 200 amp Square D
box.
>
> Anyway, I think we're really far enough along to get this house on the
market
> late next week. After that, who knows?
>
>
>
> Charlie Self
> "Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the
advantages
> of making a disagreeable person keep his distance." Ambrose Bierce
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Didn't realize you were talking about where you live, being Canadian, I
don't know all the abreviations and such for the States.
Blair
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Blair Chesterton asks:
>
> >What is get out of the WV?
>
> Where did you get the "the"? What does WV stand for in the list of U.S.
states?
>
> Think about it.
>
> Charlie Self
>
> "I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of
itself. "
> Ronald Reagan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Blair Chesterton asks:
>Didn't realize you were talking about where you live, being Canadian, I
>don't know all the abreviations and such for the States.
Neither do I. I don't really want to, either. WV is West Virginia. Motto is
Wild & Wonderful. I'm missing on the second part at the moment.
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
You should try Ontario, very wild and wonderful up north, not so wild or
wonderful in the south, unfortunately, I live in the south!
Blair
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Blair Chesterton asks:
>
> >Didn't realize you were talking about where you live, being Canadian, I
> >don't know all the abreviations and such for the States.
>
> Neither do I. I don't really want to, either. WV is West Virginia. Motto
is
> Wild & Wonderful. I'm missing on the second part at the moment.
>
> Charlie Self
>
> "I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of
itself. "
> Ronald Reagan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Blaier Chesterton writes:
>You should try Ontario, very wild and wonderful up north, not so wild or
>wonderful in the south, unfortunately, I live in the south!
Yeah, well...my knees are too old to go north with the rest of me, so there's a
problem.
Charlie Self
"Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the
frog dies of it." E. B. White
Blair Chesterton wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13'
> shop and wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I
> am planning on two rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents
> strips and was thinking about some incandescent as well. What do
> you guys advise? Is their such a thing as too much? Would two
> rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't have very much natural
> light as it is a basement shop. What works for you guys?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Blair
>
>
I have 4 2-bulb 8 foot fixtures in a 18'x20' shop and it isn't
enough for me. I have also painted the wall and ceiling bright white.
There is no such thing as too much light in my opinion. If you don't
think you will use all of the light, all of the time, then wire it up so
that you can turn on "sets" of lights in the shop in order to increase
light levels incrementally.
--
Michael Burton
Thunderbird Hardwoods
Llano, TX
mhburton at moment dot net
My shop is 18 X 18. I have seven, 2 bulb 4' fluorescent fixtures that hang
from loose tubafours spanning the rafters. It is NOT too many.
For increased flexibility, instead of hardwiring my fluorescent fixtures, I
wired 4, fourplex receptacles into the joists and use the fixtures that come
with plugs. This allows me to _easily_ move the fixtures around for the best
lighting when tools get moved to different locations.
Very handy and flexible touch if you have open ceilings in your shop.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Blair Chesterton" wrote in message
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop
and
> wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am planning on
two
> rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and was thinking
> about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such
a
> thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
> have very much natural light as it is a basement shop. What works for you
> guys?
On Thu, 20 Nov 2003 23:19:30 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Greg O wrote:
>
>> three switches turn the lights on. Some times I wish I had just one big
>> friggen switch that turned EVERYTHING on when I enter the shop!
>
>Then getcha a Clapper and just clap-on clap-off to your delight all day
>long... :)
Didja hear that joke...?
>One of these days, if voice recognition stuff ever gets cheap and plentiful,
>I want to have some lights that come on when I say "fiat lux." As in
>"Dixitque Deus fiat lux, et facta est lux."
I picked up a HALdeluxe from the Borg (via phone in NorCal) for $16
when they were on clearance. It came with voicemodem, software, X-10
interface, etc. www.AutomatedLiving.com sells a package for $239 but
Blowes might have them a LOT cheaper. Also try Worthington, a home
automation wholesaler in MD. www.worthdist.com It's cheaper than you
think to get into it. I have a little pocket remote which allows me to
turn lights on all over the house when I'm not at the computer to use
voice. (Good ambient household microphones cost $100 a pop, though,
the reason I haven't expanded voice control.)
>Maybe I have a god complex.
What's this "maybe" stuff?
--------------------------------------
PESSIMIST: An optimist with experience
--------------------------------------------
www.diversify.com - Web Database Development
My best advice is to forget the 4 footers and go to 8' fixtures. The tiny
pins on the 4' tubes, combined with the crappy, pinch every penny design of
the fixtures make them a PITA.
In my 22 x 22 shop I have 8 twin tube 8' fixtures and the light level is
just acceptable. I would like a few task area lights. My walls are bare
wood siding and my ceiling is open rafters so I do not have much beneficial
reflection.
--
Bill Pounds
http://www.bill.pounds.net/woodshop (the old shop, not where I am now)
"Blair Chesterton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop
and
> wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am planning on
two
> rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and was thinking
> about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such
a
> thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
> have very much natural light as it is a basement shop. What works for you
> guys?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Blair
>
>
Larry Jaques wrote:
> I picked up a HALdeluxe from the Borg (via phone in NorCal) for $16
This is real? Wow, I guess I should get with the times and stuff.
Or not... No, I have too many things on the someday list as it is.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Don't forgett that the height of the room enters into the matter. I
used 3 watts psf when I figured rooms but that was an 8' room.
On 19 Nov 2003 13:45:48 -0700, Lance Spaulding
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Jim Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> 39 x 13 = 507 sf; 507 / 15 = 34 tubes, or 17 fixtures.
>
>> By the way, 40 watts per 15 square feet is 2.7 watts per square foot.
>> Some lighting designers use 2 watts per square foot as a lower bound,
>> which yields 20 square feet per 40W tube.
>
>> 507 / 20 = 25 tubes, or 13 fixtures.
>
>This seems like a lot more light than what would normally be needed or
>used. Another way to determine how much you need to go visit some
>commercial buildings and find one with the amount of lighting you
>like. Then you can simply count ceiling tiles and bulbs to figure
>out how much you need. For instance, in the building I'm in now there
>are 3 4' bulbs every 256 square feet (every 8 ceiling tiles). That
>means each bulb is lighting approximately 85 square feet. As I mentioned
>in a previous post, I use 16 bulbs at home to light my 1200 square foot
>shop which means each bulb is lighting roughly 75 square feet. I also
>use the newer, brighter T8 bulbs at home so it's noticably brighter.
>Given this, I believe you could easily light your shop with 6-8
>total bulbs. I think if you had 26 bulbs in 500 square feet, youd need
>a welding helmet to enter the building :-)
>
>Lance
Greg O wrote:
> three switches turn the lights on. Some times I wish I had just one big
> friggen switch that turned EVERYTHING on when I enter the shop!
Then getcha a Clapper and just clap-on clap-off to your delight all day
long... :)
One of these days, if voice recognition stuff ever gets cheap and plentiful,
I want to have some lights that come on when I say "fiat lux." As in
"Dixitque Deus fiat lux, et facta est lux."
Maybe I have a god complex.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Probably a mine. Most people have no idea of what a claymore used to
be.
n Fri, 21 Nov 2003 09:30:22 -0800, Tim Douglass
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:16:49 -0500, Silvan
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Anyway, the claymore is almost as good. It has a nice WTF factor that
>>throws people off guard.
>
>Sword or mine?
>
>Just looking for a data point here.
>
>Tim Douglass
>
>http://www.DouglassClan.com
Lawrence Ramsey notes:
>Probably a mine. Most people have no idea of what a claymore used to
>be.
Oh, you'd be surprised, I think. Silvan does, Tim does, I do and that's just a
start. Betcha buck that Tom Watson does.
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
On 21 Nov 2003 20:35:42 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
wrote:
>Lawrence Ramsey notes:
>
>>Probably a mine. Most people have no idea of what a claymore used to
>>be.
>
>Oh, you'd be surprised, I think. Silvan does, Tim does, I do and that's just a
>start. Betcha buck that Tom Watson does.
If'n I unnerstands ya corectally, da two can be tolt apart as, da
bidness side of da newish Claymores has a sign dat goes sumpthin like,
"Front - Towards Enemy", whilst da older, simpler, and more personal
types, on their bidness edges, hath naught but a glint and a swoosh.
Regards, Tom
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
Tom Watson responds:
>>Oh, you'd be surprised, I think. Silvan does, Tim does, I do and that's just
>a
>>start. Betcha buck that Tom Watson does.
>
>If'n I unnerstands ya corectally, da two can be tolt apart as, da
>bidness side of da newish Claymores has a sign dat goes sumpthin like,
>"Front - Towards Enemy", whilst da older, simpler, and more personal
>types, on their bidness edges, hath naught but a glint and a swoosh.
>
>
Yeah, well..the glint is built in, but you have to provide your own "swoosh,"
unlike the sneakers.
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>>Feh, you were just afraid of us because we tried to make you eat haggis.
>
>
> That's a felony in the USA now that the new HSA is in place.
> Just try it, fella. Just try it!
>
Grandma was a Mackenzie and Mcandrew.
I got to go to the Bobby Burns celebration several times. A black tie
dinner with poetry and Haggis.
When I was a child I was allowed to have it with honey and milk, when I
became a cretin age I was expected to choke it down like a man.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
Mark responds:
>
>Grandma was a Mackenzie and Mcandrew.
>
>I got to go to the Bobby Burns celebration several times. A black tie
>dinner with poetry and Haggis.
>
>When I was a child I was allowed to have it with honey and milk, when I
>became a cretin age I was expected to choke it down like a man.
Shoot, man...or is that hoot, mun? You need to combine it with southern flair
and go to some of the groups that choke down the annual chitlin' cook. I ain't
never, and never will. The smell used to send me running, so now my knees are
too screwed up for me to run, I'm just much more careful about where I go to
dinner.
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
Charlie Self wrote:
> flair and go to some of the groups that choke down the annual chitlin'
> cook. I ain't never, and never will. The smell used to send me running, so
Wow, that got me thinking. The woman who used to live in this house used to
*love* those. I have old appliances in the kitchen, so more than likely
one or all of them have been used at some point in the preparation of a
fine plate of the finest guts a hog has to offer.
Bleah.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:32:17 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> contended:
>Luigi Zanasi wrote:
>
>> According to my ancestors, yours were something like BAD: annoying
>> painted little buggers. There was nothing worth conquering in that
>> cold, damp place so my ancestors just walled them off the same way we,
>> today, killfile idiots. :)
>
>Feh, you were just afraid of us because we tried to make you eat haggis.
You are talking about the people who invented the vomitorium, ate raw
octopus and sea urchins, whole songbirds (the tongues - should be
tounges - were reserved for the sybaritic banquets), and garum (DAGS).
Ackshally, YDNTDAGS.
http://www.foodreference.com/html/artgarum.html
Sheep innards and oatmeal - yummy. I actually really like haggis,
having been subjected to it at numerous Robbie Burns nights, and I am
sure my ancestors would also have relished it.
Now, if you had mentioned bagpipes . . .
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address
Larry Jaques wrote:
>>Feh, you were just afraid of us because we tried to make you eat haggis.
>
> That's a felony in the USA now that the new HSA is in place.
> Just try it, fella. Just try it!
You mean the DHS?
Anyway, not likely. I suspect the reason *my* ancestors fled their homeland
was to get away from haggis.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Mark Jerde wrote:
> I have a Viking helmet complete with horns for the same purpose. I call
> it
> my "Technical Support Helmet." <g> "YOU"RE SAYING OUR SOFTWARE MADE YOUR
> COMPUTER CRASH? WELL LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING, YOU ..."
See, somebody understands me. :)
> I'm 6'2", 250 lbs+, and until earlier this week had a 6 month beard. I
> trimmed it because a couple people said I looked "too dangerous." <g> Of
> course, 900 years ago Norwegian ancestors of mine, travelling around in
> longboats, weren't all that easy to get along with...
My ancestors weren't very easy to get along with either. Hadrian just
walled off the whole damn country, rather than deal with them. :)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:32:17 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>Luigi Zanasi wrote:
>
>> According to my ancestors, yours were something like BAD: annoying
>> painted little buggers. There was nothing worth conquering in that
>> cold, damp place so my ancestors just walled them off the same way we,
>> today, killfile idiots. :)
>
>Feh, you were just afraid of us because we tried to make you eat haggis.
That's a felony in the USA now that the new HSA is in place.
Just try it, fella. Just try it!
-------------------------------------------
Stain and Poly are their own punishment
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Design
======================================================
On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 00:39:55 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> scribbled
>My ancestors weren't very easy to get along with either. Hadrian just
>walled off the whole damn country, rather than deal with them. :)
According to my ancestors, yours were something like BAD: annoying
painted little buggers. There was nothing worth conquering in that
cold, damp place so my ancestors just walled them off the same way we,
today, killfile idiots. :)
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address
Luigi Zanasi wrote:
> According to my ancestors, yours were something like BAD: annoying
> painted little buggers. There was nothing worth conquering in that
> cold, damp place so my ancestors just walled them off the same way we,
> today, killfile idiots. :)
Feh, you were just afraid of us because we tried to make you eat haggis.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 06:37:49 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
scribbled
>On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:32:17 -0500, Silvan
><[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>>Feh, you were just afraid of us because we tried to make you eat haggis.
>
>That's a felony in the USA now that the new HSA is in place.
>Just try it, fella. Just try it!
Luckily, I live in a still (relatively) free country, so I will once
more be subjected to haggis and bagpipes come next January 25th.
OBWW: Ken Mulloy, who I consider to be my Yukon godfather, is a piper
among his many other talents. About 10 years ago, he gave me an old
ca. 1919 #7 for Christmas.
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address
Luigi Zanasi responds:
>>On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:32:17 -0500, Silvan
>><[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>>>Feh, you were just afraid of us because we tried to make you eat haggis.
>>
>>That's a felony in the USA now that the new HSA is in place.
>>Just try it, fella. Just try it!
>
>Luckily, I live in a still (relatively) free country, so I will once
>more be subjected to haggis and bagpipes come next January 25th.
Yeah, well...where Silvan lives, he's within maybe a 20 minute drive of one of
the major Highland Festivals in the U.S. And it is amazing how many of these
things there really are. Ya gotta love the pipes, though. Tossing cabers is
simply not enough.
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
Charlie Self wrote:
> Yeah, well...where Silvan lives, he's within maybe a 20 minute drive of
> one of the major Highland Festivals in the U.S. And it is amazing how many
> of these things there really are. Ya gotta love the pipes, though. Tossing
> cabers is simply not enough.
Funny thing is, I even *went* to RU, and I've never been to one of those
things. I always remember it the day after. It sounds like a lot of fun.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On 23 Nov 2003 16:46:16 GMT, [email protected] (Charlie Self)
scribbled:
>Luigi Zanasi responds:
>
>>>On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 11:32:17 -0500, Silvan
>>><[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>>>>Feh, you were just afraid of us because we tried to make you eat haggis.
>>>
>>>That's a felony in the USA now that the new HSA is in place.
>>>Just try it, fella. Just try it!
>>
>>Luckily, I live in a still (relatively) free country, so I will once
>>more be subjected to haggis and bagpipes come next January 25th.
>
>Yeah, well...where Silvan lives, he's within maybe a 20 minute drive of one of
>the major Highland Festivals in the U.S. And it is amazing how many of these
>things there really are. Ya gotta love the pipes, though. Tossing cabers is
>simply not enough.
Remember, I'm in Canada, where the Scots probably had more influence
than anywhere else in the world, including Scotland, and where it
seems that every town outside Quebec has a pipe band and a
Scottish/Highland (and now Celtic as a nod to the Irish) festival. Not
to speak of pipe bands for every single military unit from platoons on
up, even those that don't wear skirts as part of their dress uniform.
Some historical notes: Alexander Mackenzie was the first European to
cross the continent and reach the Pacific north of Mexico (1793),
"discovered" North America's longest river and reached the Arctic
ocean. I went to a university named after its funder (yes, funder),
another Scottish fur trader (McGill). Canada's first two Prime
Ministers were Sir John A. Macdonald and another Alexander Mackenzie.
The longest-lived one was Mackenzie-King, who was the grandson of
William Lyon Mackenzie, of 1837 Rebellion fame.
And, Scots Gaelic is still spoken in parts of Nova Scotia.
Luigi
Whose tird (superfluous "h" omitted) language is English, but who can
nevertheless do a pretty good Gleska accent.
Luigi Zanasi responds:
>Remember, I'm in Canada, where the Scots probably had more influence
>than anywhere else in the world, including Scotland, and where it
>seems that every town outside Quebec has a pipe band and a
>Scottish/Highland (and now Celtic as a nod to the Irish) festival. Not
>to speak of pipe bands for every single military unit from platoons on
>up, even those that don't wear skirts as part of their dress uniform.
Yeah, it didn't get that bad (good) here: few if any military pipers. But for
much of the southeast inland of the coast, the Scots-Irish "invasion" of the
mid-1700s created an influential base that is being tapped more, at least
culturally, then ever before.
Charlie Self
"If a politician found he had cannibals among his constituents, he would
promise them missionaries for dinner." H. L. Mencken
Charlie Self wrote:
> Yeah, it didn't get that bad (good) here: few if any military pipers. But
> for much of the southeast inland of the coast, the Scots-Irish "invasion"
> of the mid-1700s created an influential base that is being tapped more, at
> least culturally, then ever before.
I never considered that until just now. People from Lynchburg toward
Danville and thereabouts have a funny accent characterized by words like
"aboot" and "hoose." Just like Canadians. Just like Scots.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Wed, 26 Nov 2003 04:00:26 GMT, "Michael Daly"
<[email protected]> scribbled
>On 25-Nov-2003, Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I never considered that until just now. People from Lynchburg toward
>> Danville and thereabouts have a funny accent characterized by words like
>> "aboot" and "hoose." Just like Canadians. Just like Scots.
>
>I read an article recently that explained that the main difference between
>the US and Canadian accents was the influence of the Scots in Canada.
>They also pointed out that the US accent is gradually changing to be more
>like Canada's. Must be all those Canucks in Hollywood...
That's 'cause we speak pure English without any accent.
>I was at a dinner last week where an honour guard of the metro police
>marched in wearing (St. Andrew's?) tartan and playing pipes. Black,
>white and I don't think a single Scot among them. Ah, Canada...
Well, my friend Narissa Rosati is a member of the Midnight Sun Pipe
Band. Guess what her non-ethnic origin is. (OBWW- She's a renovation
contractor. Motto: For stress-free renovations, call Rosati
Construction.)
Luigi
Replace "no" with "yk" for real email address
On 25-Nov-2003, Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:
> I never considered that until just now. People from Lynchburg toward
> Danville and thereabouts have a funny accent characterized by words like
> "aboot" and "hoose." Just like Canadians. Just like Scots.
I read an article recently that explained that the main difference between
the US and Canadian accents was the influence of the Scots in Canada.
They also pointed out that the US accent is gradually changing to be more
like Canada's. Must be all those Canucks in Hollywood...
I was at a dinner last week where an honour guard of the metro police
marched in wearing (St. Andrew's?) tartan and playing pipes. Black,
white and I don't think a single Scot among them. Ah, Canada...
Mike
Luigi Zanasi wrote:
> You are talking about the people who invented the vomitorium, ate raw
Yeah, I forgot about the bird tongues...
I never knew about garum. Gack.
> Now, if you had mentioned bagpipes . . .
OK, maybe you were afraid of the bagpipes then. :)
I wouldn't eat haggis or garum or any of myriad other things unless I was
moments away from starving to death, but I love bagpipes.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Charlie Self wrote:
> Yeah, well..the glint is built in, but you have to provide your own
> "swoosh," unlike the sneakers.
Gotta be careful with them swooshes too. My claymore is a POS, truth be
known. One good swing, and the tang bent from the weight of the blade. I
straightened it out, but I can never do more than wave it around gently.
It's a wall hanger. It makes people think I'm crazy though, which is
useful. They leave you alone when they think you're crazy. ;)
I'm not crazy though. If I really *needed* a weapon, I'd go for my machete,
or a baseball bat. Something I could wield with precision.
More than likely, I'd just run like hell though. I have everything to live
for, and no intention of getting myself killed to try to prove how big my
penis is.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Silvan wrote:
> It's a wall hanger. It makes people think I'm crazy though, which is
> useful. They leave you alone when they think you're crazy. ;)
I have a Viking helmet complete with horns for the same purpose. I call it
my "Technical Support Helmet." <g> "YOU"RE SAYING OUR SOFTWARE MADE YOUR
COMPUTER CRASH? WELL LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING, YOU ..."
I'm 6'2", 250 lbs+, and until earlier this week had a 6 month beard. I
trimmed it because a couple people said I looked "too dangerous." <g> Of
course, 900 years ago Norwegian ancestors of mine, travelling around in
longboats, weren't all that easy to get along with...
-- Mark
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 16:18:09 -0500, Tom Watson
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>If'n I unnerstands ya corectally, da two can be tolt apart as, da
>bidness side of da newish Claymores has a sign dat goes sumpthin like,
>"Front - Towards Enemy", whilst da older, simpler, and more personal
With the circles and the arrows and the paragraph on the back of
each one telling what each one was. <Sigh> McMines, anyone?
(Apologies to Arlo)
>types, on their bidness edges, hath naught but a glint and a swoosh.
...and a wee bit of a broooooogue.
--------------------------------------
PESSIMIST: An optimist with experience
--------------------------------------------
www.diversify.com - Web Database Development
Charlie Self wrote:
> Motion sensor switches are also available. I've got one somewhere that
> someone gave me. Never used it. Be a kind of shop alarm, too: if the
> lights come on when you're in the kitchen getting coffee, it's time to
> pull out the old .30-30 and go check.
Been thinking of something similar myself, actually. Not long before I
moved out here, somebody went around and ripped off everyone's lawn mower.
Nobody ever got their mower back. I like my tools.
I don't have any guns though. Not 'cause I'm a namby pamby bleeding heart
gun control whiner, but because I had to pay for Christmas a couple years
running, and guns are the hillbilly version of those big gold necklaces
certain groups of urban youth like to keep around as a sort of bank on a
chain.
One day I'm hoping that guy gets broke at a time when I'm not, so I can get
my guns back. :) I haven't gone shooting in years.
Anyway, the claymore is almost as good. It has a nice WTF factor that
throws people off guard.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Silvan writes:
>Greg O wrote:
>
>> three switches turn the lights on. Some times I wish I had just one big
>> friggen switch that turned EVERYTHING on when I enter the shop!
>
>Then getcha a Clapper and just clap-on clap-off to your delight all day
>long... :)
Motion sensor switches are also available. I've got one somewhere that someone
gave me. Never used it. Be a kind of shop alarm, too: if the lights come on
when you're in the kitchen getting coffee, it's time to pull out the old .30-30
and go check.
Charlie Self
"Telephone, n. An invention of the devil which abrogates some of the advantages
of making a disagreeable person keep his distance." Ambrose Bierce
On Fri, 21 Nov 2003 08:16:49 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Anyway, the claymore is almost as good. It has a nice WTF factor that
>throws people off guard.
Sword or mine?
Just looking for a data point here.
Tim Douglass
http://www.DouglassClan.com
Tim Douglass asks:
>>Anyway, the claymore is almost as good. It has a nice WTF factor that
>>throws people off guard.
>
>Sword or mine?
>
>Just looking for a data point here.
I think he posted earlier that it's the sword. Sometimes sounds like Silvan
might deserve the nickname "Screwy Scot". Most places I've lived, swinging a
sword at anything other than a Highland Festival could bring legal problems.
Of course, setting off a mine with its many BBs ain't a friendly gesture
either.
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
Charlie Self wrote:
>>Sword or mine?
Sword.
> I think he posted earlier that it's the sword. Sometimes sounds like
> Silvan might deserve the nickname "Screwy Scot". Most places I've lived,
> swinging a sword at anything other than a Highland Festival could bring
> legal problems.
I can do whatever the hell I want in my own yard, dammit!
Besides, how is swinging a sword at a burglar any more likely to bring legal
problems than leveling a rifle at him?
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On 22-Nov-2003, Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:
> Maybe go with regular incandescent clamp lamps or some such?
Unless electricity is free where you live, I'd suggest using
fluorescent. If you can find an affordable full spectrum compact
fluorescent lamp (CFL), get that. CFLs last forever and use a
fraction of the power of an incandescent or halogen. Some would say
not much saving compared to those big power tools, but a penny
saved...
I put a CFL in a magnifier lamp for detail lighting in my "shop".
The Circlite magnifiers are better but pricier. I like the additional
magnification when needed (these old eyes...).
Mike
Silvan wrote:
> I was looking at various small halogen kits today. Some round, some
> rectangular, all running off of 12V transformers. I was thinking maybe put
> one of those over the table saw, one over the workbench, one in the dark
> back corner,....
> Anyone have any thoughts on that? I like halogen light,
If your going to put one you almost have to put two bulbs to reduce
harsh shadows.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
Back ON topic for a moment... Go figure. :)
I have adequate light in my shop, but I could use more. I wouldn't mind
having some extra heat right now either.
I was looking at various small halogen kits today. Some round, some
rectangular, all running off of 12V transformers. I was thinking maybe put
one of those over the table saw, one over the workbench, one in the dark
back corner, etc., but I didn't get far enough to read how much wire runs
between them and so forth.
Anyone have any thoughts on that? I like halogen light, but they get *hot*,
and my whole shop from floor to ceiling is made out of wood and usually
filled with dust. Is that something I should really think about?
Maybe go with regular incandescent clamp lamps or some such?
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Silvan asks:
>I have adequate light in my shop, but I could use more. I wouldn't mind
>having some extra heat right now either.
>
>I was looking at various small halogen kits today. Some round, some
>rectangular, all running off of 12V transformers. I was thinking maybe put
>one of those over the table saw, one over the workbench, one in the dark
>back corner, etc., but I didn't get far enough to read how much wire runs
>between them and so forth.
>
>Anyone have any thoughts on that? I like halogen light, but they get *hot*,
>and my whole shop from floor to ceiling is made out of wood and usually
>filled with dust. Is that something I should really think about?
Fluorescent where possible, incandescent as task lighting, IMO and IME.
Halogen is great for some task lighting, say on a drill press or lathe, but the
bulbs do get hot. I've never had one give a problem, but...
The heat bit strikes 2 ways: it's useful now (I use some photofloods to aid
natural heating sometimes, but in my shop, the electrical lines are a problem:
both halogen and photofloods draw a lot of watts...500 to 600 watters per bulb
for the floods, 500 to 1000 for the halogens). Come summer, the halogen is a
horror in VA. Been there, done that (and probably will again).
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
Charlie Self wrote:
> watters per bulb for the floods, 500 to 1000 for the halogens). Come
> summer, the halogen is a horror in VA. Been there, done that (and probably
> will again).
Yeah, there is that indeed. Though in summer there's more ambient light to
use (with the doors open), so I might not need the supplemental lighting as
much.
Anyway, another score is the fact that I have low ceilings and close
quarters. I could actually burn myself pretty badly on a halogen light if
I placed it poorly.
What about if I just get some wire, buy some lamp sockets, and dangle some
bulbs here and there? Cheap is always good.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Silvan asks:
>Anyway, another score is the fact that I have low ceilings and close
>quarters. I could actually burn myself pretty badly on a halogen light if
>I placed it poorly.
>
>What about if I just get some wire, buy some lamp sockets, and dangle some
>bulbs here and there? Cheap is always good.
Hey, what the hell. Go for it. It's your life. Shorten it any way you wish.
But reminds me of a basement shop I once had: when I took it over, one light
fixture had been pulled aside, and a receptacle wired on--dangling. Into which
a coffee pot was plugged.
Cost me about $500 to rewire that place, but before I spent a cent, I yanked
that receptacle.
No dangles, please.
Charlie Self
"I am not worried about the deficit. It is big enough to take care of itself. "
Ronald Reagan
"Charlie Self" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Silvan writes:
>
> >Greg O wrote:
> >
> >> three switches turn the lights on. Some times I wish I had just one big
> >> friggen switch that turned EVERYTHING on when I enter the shop!
> >
> >Then getcha a Clapper and just clap-on clap-off to your delight all day
> >long... :)
>
> Motion sensor switches are also available. I've got one somewhere that
someone
> gave me. Never used it. Be a kind of shop alarm, too: if the lights come
on
> when you're in the kitchen getting coffee, it's time to pull out the old
.30-30
> and go check.
>
>
You won't get inside my shop in the dark anyway! My shop is surrounded with
halogen floods, all on motion detectors. My neighbor call me every so often
and tells me that lights are on, better check it out!
Greg
From my personal view, you can't have too many fixtures. I have my
shop in a two car garage with 10 four footers. I would like about 3
more. I just added the 10th one last week to cover a darkish area, and
already I want to add more. Some guys will provide you with a
"formula". I say put up what is pleasing to your eyes; don't follow a
"rule" of lighting unless you think that's adequate. I certainly don't
think lighting guidelines are adequate. The only natural light comes in
through a window in a door, unless I open the main garage door and
subject my neighbors to power equipment noise.
My walls are semi-gloss near-white. That helps a lot, compared to the
dark paneling I had! My garage used to be a pool room back in the 70's
when walnut paneling was in vogue.
dave
Blair Chesterton wrote:
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop and
> wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am planning on two
> rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and was thinking
> about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such a
> thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
> have very much natural light as it is a basement shop. What works for you
> guys?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Blair
>
>
I think there are some new bulbs that have increased light output. You
might look for some of those.
On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 21:20:26 GMT, Jim Wilson <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Lance Spaulding wrote...
>> Jim Wilson <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > 39 x 13 = 507 sf; 507 / 15 = 34 tubes, or 17 fixtures.
>>
>> > By the way, 40 watts per 15 square feet is 2.7 watts per square foot.
>> > Some lighting designers use 2 watts per square foot as a lower bound,
>> > which yields 20 square feet per 40W tube.
>>
>> > 507 / 20 = 25 tubes, or 13 fixtures.
>>
>> This seems like a lot more light than what would normally be needed or
>> used.
>
>Perhaps it does seem that way, but it is the way professional lighting
>designers do it. I'm pretty happy with how it works in my shop, which
>certainly does not seem too bright. I also have white walls and ceiling.
>
>> Another way to determine how much you need to go visit some
>> commercial buildings and find one with the amount of lighting you
>> like.
>
>This can be hit and miss. Many commercial places do not use the same type
>of lighting, many are visited only during the day so natural light
>obscures the level of artificial illumination. Many have adequate light
>for their intended purposes, when that level is less than ideal for
>woodworking.
>
>> For instance, in the building I'm in now there
>> are 3 4' bulbs every 256 square feet (every 8 ceiling tiles). That
>> means each bulb is lighting approximately 85 square feet.
>
>Sounds like an office space, which has a much lower need for light than
>woodcraft.
>
>> Given this, I believe you could easily light your shop with 6-8
>> total bulbs.
>
>Of course, this would illuminate the room, but will it be bright enough
>for comfortable work? Perhaps for some folks, but for most, it is not
>enough.
>
>> I think if you had 26 bulbs in 500 square feet, youd need
>> a welding helmet to enter the building :-)
>
>I have 26 40W tubes in 560 square feet. It's definitely not too much;
>there are a few areas where there's not quite enough light. A tour of my
>shop can be found here:
>
>http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/shop_pics/
>
>All these photos were taken at night. By and large, there is enough
>general lighting for me, but I still need task lighting when doing detail
>work, especially at the lathes and mill. The corners, especially
>the "cabinet corner"
>(http://www.paragoncode.com/shop/shop_pics/shop22.htm)
>are too dark.
>
>Jim
Blair Chesterton wrote:
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13'
> shop and wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am
> planning on two rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents
> strips and was thinking about some incandescent as well. What do you
> guys advise? Is their such a thing as too much? Would two rows of
> six or seven be a bit much? I don't have very much natural light as
> it is a basement shop. What works for you guys?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Blair
I read in one of the many ww books my library has that older eyes, in
general, need more light than younger eyes. I'm (what year is this?) 44 and
need more light now than I used to.
-- Mark
"Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Blair Chesterton wrote:
> I read in one of the many ww books my library has that older eyes, in
> general, need more light than younger eyes. I'm (what year is this?) 44
and
More light and longer arms.
My need for the latter kicked in at 45...
On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:20:05 -0500, "Blair Chesterton"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop and
>wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good.
I'm no expert, but I've got a walk-out basement shop.
How high are your ceilings? Low ceilings require much more light, as
the fixture's pattern never gets to spread out. My 20x40 basement
shop has (2) 4x4' bulb fixtures and (4) 2x4' fixtures, as well as (4)
incandescent fixtures with screw type fluorescent bulbs. This only
lights about 3/4 of the shop, and not as well as I'd like.
My shop has a center staircase, so that may cause more problems that
you may not have.
Barry
Thanks alot guys, you answered my question just as I thought it would be,
geuss I'll be buying more light fixtures and I will be probably happy for it
in the long run.
Blair
"Blair Chesterton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop
and
> wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am planning on
two
> rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and was thinking
> about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such
a
> thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
> have very much natural light as it is a basement shop. What works for you
> guys?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Blair
>
>
"Blair Chesterton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a 39' by 13' shop
and
> wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I am planning on
two
> rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and was thinking
> about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise? Is their such
a
> thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a bit much? I don't
> have very much natural light as it is a basement shop. What works for you
> guys?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Blair
>
>
My gar....shop is 24 x 38 feet. I have fourteen two bulb flouresant fixtures
and nine one hundred watt incandesants. I am getting ready to add eight or
more four foot two bulb flouresant fixtures. Walls and ceiling are
smei-gloss white. I have noticed as I get older I like more light.
Greg
My garage is where I perform my attempts at woodworking. Its
a 3-bay 24x36 with 12ft ceilings. I have 4 4-tube T8
fixtures mounted at 12' and it is plenty of light. At 8' I
would probably need 6 fixtures. I like hi-intensity task
lights at the rotating equipment for additional light and it
also prevents the T8's from making it appear the tools are
stopped when they are actually running. I have to admit I
haven't experienced this with the T8's as much as I have
with T12 fixtures.
--
Erik "Grumpa" Ahrens
Apprentice Termite
"Blair Chesterton" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
| Are their any lighting specialists out there? I have a
39' by 13' shop and
| wanted some advice on how much lighting would be good. I
am planning on two
| rows of five, two bulb, four foot flourescents strips and
was thinking
| about some incandescent as well. What do you guys advise?
Is their such a
| thing as too much? Would two rows of six or seven be a
bit much? I don't
| have very much natural light as it is a basement shop.
What works for you
| guys?
|
| Thanks in advance,
|
| Blair
|
|
"RWatson767" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Blair
> >Shop lighting?
>
> What works for you guys?
>
> I have several ceiling fixtures and am addng more. But what It is having
the
> fixtures split among 4 lighting circuits. Each fixture is 4 bulb and the 4
> bulbs are split among 2 circuits. Real nice. I did however wire in all
this
> when the shop was being built.
> Bob AZ
My shop lighting was broken up into about 6 differant circuits. I got tired
of flipping on switches so I combined the circuits I could, no only three
switches turn the lights on. Some times I wish I had just one big friggen
switch that turned EVERYTHING on when I enter the shop!
Greg