Who makes the best woodworker's tape measure?

On Friday, May 17, 2019 at 10:12:19 PM UTC-4, Michael wrote:
> My old tape measure is just about done. I thought I'd get a Milwaukee sin=
ce I like things they make, but the reviews are not that good. What is the =
best 16-foot tape measure?
>=20
> Thanks.
stay away from the overly gimmicky rubber molded ones. the Komelon SL2816 i=
s nice and cheap. the craftsman CMHT37316S is a standard. take a look at th=
e markings on the blade and you'll know right away what to stay away from. =
I personally like the U.S. Tape 54533, it's a 33' and perfect for me becaus=
e I use the metric part to layout booths for foreign customers at the conve=
ntion center. the komeleon 4930lm is also nice but 30'. https://www.amazo=
n.com/s?k=3D16+tape+measure&i=3Dtools&ref=3Dnb_sb_noss_1

Jack wrote:
> On 5/21/2019 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time
>>> though.  Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).
>>
>> Try Hobby-Machinist.com
>> I've been thinking about whether I might be able to make some
>> plane
>> parts. I don't own a lathe or a mill though, so far. But I am
>> keeping my
>> eyes open for a "deal" while I learn.
>
> That's a web page.  I like watching videos on Youtube on my big
> screen TV's (Comcast here has a built in YouTube app) I about
> completely stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of
> what I watch is on Youtube.

Me too, with Roku. But what's wrong with a web page forum (where
you can ask questions)?

On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 5:01:25 AM UTC-7, Jack wrote:
> On 5/24/2019 12:24 PM, Leon wrote:
> > On 5/24/2019 7:11 AM, Jack wrote:
> >> On 5/23/2019 11:52 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>
> >>> The beauty to watching video's over and over is that you can catch parts
> >>> you missed when you doze off. ;~)
> >>
> >> I record How the Universe Works, and Spaces Deepest Secrets. The shows
> >> are pretty much garbage and boring, but they put me to sleep within 5
> >> minutes. First, the videos are mostly fake, so you don't need to watch
> >> them (videos of the big bang 14 million years ago, black holes which
> >> you can't see, even IF they exist, and so on) This means you can just
> >> close your eyes, and be put to sleep. I wake up in the middle of the
> >> night, fast forward from the beginning 5 minutes (where I last fell
> >> asleep) and wham, in minutes I'm back in dream land, and no drugs
> >> needed. One show lasts at least a week before I delete it for a new
> >> one:-)
> >
> > You know there is a growing number of people, soon to be a majority of
> > people, that believe that the big bang was actually filmed as it
> > happened. A lot of these people are government leaders and those that
> > they have promised to take care of, to get their votes.
>
> Yep, lots of complete morons around.
> >
> > I was reading NextDoor, a local neighborhood information source. A
> > woman took several pictures of "earth worms" and asked the neighbors if
> > these were snakes. This is where we are headed.
>
> I think we are there, not "headed". I watched a couple of "Louder with
> Clouder" or whatever he calls his show on youtube and he goes to college
> campuses and interviews anyone that will talk to him. Besides the
> totally asinine views and stupidity of these left wing morons, what
> stuck me even more was the totally slovenly appearance of all of them.
> These kids look like losers to the nth degree, with bad attitudes, bad
> personal hygiene, lack of respect for themselves and the world. A while
> back there was a slogan, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste". Well,
> seems our educational system combined with lousy parenting has brought
> an incredible percent of our population to it's knees.
>

Do you mean Louder With Crowder? If so...

I'm not picking sides, but I don't think it's fair to judge any particular
segment of society based on what you see on that show. I didn't know who
he was or what his show was about, so I looked him up:

"Steven Blake Crowder is a Canadian-American conservative political
commentator, actor, and comedian. He is the host of Louder with Crowder,
a late-night style comedic television show covering news, pop culture,
and politics."

My guess, if I take "conservative political commentator" and combine it
with "actor/comedian", is that there just might be a sight slant to his choice
of "guests" for his show. (Yes, I did watch a few minutes of a few shows.)

I know lots of recent college students, including 2 daughters with 3 Masters
degrees between them, a son's girlfriend who just got her PhD, and many of
their friends. Some of them are certainly more left leaning than right, but
there's not a "slovenly looking asinine loser" in the group.

Crowder (and others) will show his viewers who he wants them to see on the
hope that certain general opinions will be formed. I'll bet that if he
interviewed some of the college students that I know, they wouldn't make
the...I mean...*his* cut. They just don't fit the stereotype he is trying
to build.

On Tue, 21 May 2019 09:03:58 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

> I about completely
>stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
>Youtube. I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
>Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.
>
Check out mtmwood on Youtube. He doesn't do many videos now, however, he
went from a garage operation to a production plant doing end grain cutting
boards. I especially like this one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVd-jxTmq4g
--
Jerry O.

On 5/20/2019 10:26 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>> On 5/19/2019 2:32 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:35:29 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/19/2019 9:43 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>>> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>>>    I guess they figure if you measure more
>>>>>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>>>>>> circumstances.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length?  Are you saying you don't
>>>>> use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot because there are no
>>>>> 1/32" markings?
>>>>>
>>>>> In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those 1/32"
>>>>> measures in the first foot, they just get in the way.  Regardless of
>>>>> length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way between two 1/16" lines. My
>>>>> 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so I guess they,(the morons making
>>>>> tapes) think accuracy is only important in the first foot on short
>>>>> tapes.  Truth is, 1/32" lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance
>>>>> both under and over a foot measurements.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW and, yes, I know there are other ways to skin this cat; how about
>>>> measuring a sheet of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for setting a dado? Rarely is
>>>> plywood exactly what it is sold as. It can vary by a 16th or 32nd.
>>>
>>> Or somewhere in between. For that I find a micrometer is more
>>> efficacious than a tape measure. But if the fit really matters trial
>>> cuts and adjustment are time consuming but the "right" way to do it.
>>
>> Sneaking up on the fit is a band aid fix for improper measuring up to
>> that point.
>
> For the aforementioned case, I'd probably sneak up on the
> correct stacked-dado/shim combination required to match the plywood
> rather than trying to measure the stacked dado + shims.
>

LOL, Yeah. Form me it depends on the day of the week or if there is a
full moon.
But I do use a caliper to measure my first shot at stacking and
shimming, with the arbor nut snugly in place. I compare that
measurement directly to the material in several places. If it is pretty
darn close to tight I'll slightly bevel the edges going into the
dado/grove with my sander. This especially helps to prevent chipping
the outer veneer.

On 5/20/2019 1:06 PM, Jack wrote:
> On 5/20/2019 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/19/2019 2:32 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> lywood exactly what it is sold as. It can vary by a 16th or 32nd.
>>>
>>> Or somewhere in between.  For that I find a micrometer is more
>>> efficacious than a tape measure.  But if the fit really matters trial
>>> cuts and adjustment are time consuming but the "right" way to do it.
>>
>> Sneaking up on the fit is a band aid fix for improper measuring up to
>> that point.  I certainly sneak up on fit in many cases but it is usually
>> when considering inconsistent thicknesses on sheet goods used in
>> multiple layers.
>
> I always do a test fit when cutting dado's in anything.  I have tapes
> with 1/32" measures, digital calibers with 1/128th measurements, and
> dial indicator with 1000's of an inch.  I just do the trial and error,
> which generally works the first time with my dado set. Next time though
> I think I'll try the digital calipers, that should work quite well, but
> still will do the old test cut.

With a digital caliper and a calculator you can determine exactly what
size shim to place in the stack.

On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 9:19:39 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
> On 5/25/2019 11:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 5:01:25 AM UTC-7, Jack wrote:
> >> On 5/24/2019 12:24 PM, Leon wrote:
> >>> On 5/24/2019 7:11 AM, Jack wrote:
> >>>> On 5/23/2019 11:52 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The beauty to watching video's over and over is that you can catch parts
> >>>>> you missed when you doze off. ;~)
> >>>>
> >>>> I record How the Universe Works, and Spaces Deepest Secrets. The shows
> >>>> are pretty much garbage and boring, but they put me to sleep within 5
> >>>> minutes. First, the videos are mostly fake, so you don't need to watch
> >>>> them (videos of the big bang 14 million years ago, black holes which
> >>>> you can't see, even IF they exist, and so on) This means you can just
> >>>> close your eyes, and be put to sleep. I wake up in the middle of the
> >>>> night, fast forward from the beginning 5 minutes (where I last fell
> >>>> asleep) and wham, in minutes I'm back in dream land, and no drugs
> >>>> needed. One show lasts at least a week before I delete it for a new
> >>>> one:-)
> >>>
> >>> You know there is a growing number of people, soon to be a majority of
> >>> people, that believe that the big bang was actually filmed as it
> >>> happened. A lot of these people are government leaders and those that
> >>> they have promised to take care of, to get their votes.
> >>
> >> Yep, lots of complete morons around.
> >>>
> >>> I was reading NextDoor, a local neighborhood information source. A
> >>> woman took several pictures of "earth worms" and asked the neighbors if
> >>> these were snakes. This is where we are headed.
> >>
> >> I think we are there, not "headed". I watched a couple of "Louder with
> >> Clouder" or whatever he calls his show on youtube and he goes to college
> >> campuses and interviews anyone that will talk to him. Besides the
> >> totally asinine views and stupidity of these left wing morons, what
> >> stuck me even more was the totally slovenly appearance of all of them.
> >> These kids look like losers to the nth degree, with bad attitudes, bad
> >> personal hygiene, lack of respect for themselves and the world. A while
> >> back there was a slogan, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste". Well,
> >> seems our educational system combined with lousy parenting has brought
> >> an incredible percent of our population to it's knees.
> >>
> >
> > Do you mean Louder With Crowder? If so...
>
> I reckon that's him.
>
> >
> > I'm not picking sides, but I don't think it's fair to judge any particular
> > segment of society based on what you see on that show. I didn't know who
> > he was or what his show was about, so I looked him up:
> >
> > "Steven Blake Crowder is a Canadian-American conservative political
> > commentator, actor, and comedian. He is the host of Louder with Crowder,
> > a late-night style comedic television show covering news, pop culture,
> > and politics."
> >
> > My guess, if I take "conservative political commentator" and combine it
> > with "actor/comedian", is that there just might be a sight slant to his choice
> > of "guests" for his show. (Yes, I did watch a few minutes of a few shows.)
>
> Yes, I agree but, the two shows I watched were outside on a college
> campuses. He could choose who he interviewed, but could NOT choose the
> crowd of students milling about. He actually couldn't even choose who
> he interviewed, he asked anyone that would talk to him to do so. That is
> lots different than the interviews regular TV types that do the man on
> the street type stuff where you see 6 interviews and all of them are
> ridiculous. The answers they get that they don't like, or don't fit
> their agenda hit the cutting room floor. He could just be really good at
> it, but I don't think so, I think he just flies with whatever he gets.
>
> > I know lots of recent college students, including 2 daughters with 3 Masters
> > degrees between them, a son's girlfriend who just got her PhD, and many of
> > their friends. Some of them are certainly more left leaning than right, but
> > there's not a "slovenly looking asinine loser" in the group.
>
> That's a small group in relation to the millions and millions of college
> students. Anyway, I don't recall what was going on at the schools. He
> set up a table and tried to get anyone he could to talk to him. It
> could have been an anti-American rally for all I know.

Did he talk to millions and millions of college students or was his sample as small
as mine?

>
> > Crowder (and others) will show his viewers who he wants them to see on the
> > hope that certain general opinions will be formed. I'll bet that if he
> > interviewed some of the college students that I know, they wouldn't make
> > the...I mean...*his* cut. They just don't fit the stereotype he is trying
> > to build.
>
> That's true enough I reckon. I don't watch him, just parts of a couple
> shows. He is not my style, but that's what I got out of what I saw. Your
> comment on a woman asking if earth worms were snakes reminded me of the
> morons I've seen on campuses, and particularly college professors I've
> seen on TV. I've seen students and professors in the news protesting
> conservative speakers, and they look like the same losers.
>
> When I went to college, politics was not an issue, and you got in based
> on academics, not race, sex, sexual habits or whatever they do today.
> Probably could get in if mommy donated a wing or two to the school.
>
> --
> Jack
> Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/19/2019 6:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2019 10:43:39 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 5/18/2019 10:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 5/18/2019 8:21 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't particularly care who makes my tapes, I have a ton of them.
>>>> My main gripe is all of them I have have 1/32" increments in the first
>>>> foot. This is useless, no, worse than useless, imo.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I used them often. For my use the tape would be no good without them. I
>>> can get that with a 12" scale but a tape is easier to carry around.
>>
>> So, I reckon you can't make accurate measurements with anything over a
>> foot in length unless it lands exactly on a 16th? Pretty sad, in my opinion.
>
> I wouldn't count on a tape measure to be more accurate than that
> anyway. They aren't micrometers.
>>

True, and it depends on what you are measuring. It is comon in some
industries to have a closer tolerance on part up to 12" or so than for
larger parts.

Just to confuse Jack a bit, in my industry for a part to measure a true
48" when I check it will measure 48 1/4".

Jack wrote:

> If you are into one pocket, the best ever is a recent match
> between Tony Chohan and Dennis Orcolo.  It was streamed by POV
> pool and is in 3 parts.  Race to 30 for $50k. These are two of
> the best one pocket players on earth, Tony probably number one.

Thanks, I wrote it down for later. One thing I like about
watching videos on YouTube it that I can watch a long video over
multiple sittings, i.e. when I'm eating. Way better than TV.

Bill

Jack wrote:
> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>>    I guess they figure if you measure more
>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>
>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>> circumstances.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length?  Are you saying
> you don't use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot
> because there are no 1/32" markings?

I meant "copy" in the spirit of using a "story stick" (a few
other posters jogged my memory for that term). I can markup four
boards of the same length that way. There is no way I could do as
well with a tape measure, except for the first one. I often reach
for one of my steel squares--except when I head out shopping. I
often tote a very small or medium sized tape measure in my
pocket, the way some people tote a pocket knife. I have a
Starrett combination square that goes to 64th's and/or hundredths
(ha!) if I want to be "serious". But honestly, I have a
micrometer that works great for measuring less than 1" and (H.F.)
digital calipers that work great for measuring up to 12". I like
using the calipers even when the battery is dead--it's like a
story stick. Lots of ways to skin this cat, but I think the
feller that figured out he didn't need marks on the rule was the
genius! : )

My dad liked to keep (in the car) one of those old-fashioned 12'
(?) fold-up rules that I think were sometimes used for rough
lumber. I suggested that it might not be accurate, but he
disagreed. Of course, he didn't often make furniture, and I never
saw him use one in the house. Still I think that he liked it much
the way you like your tape measure!

Cheers,
Bill

Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>Jack wrote:
>
>> If you are into one pocket, the best ever is a recent match
>> between Tony Chohan and Dennis Orcolo.  It was streamed by POV
>> pool and is in 3 parts.  Race to 30 for $50k. These are two of
>> the best one pocket players on earth, Tony probably number one.
>
>Thanks, I wrote it down for later. One thing I like about
>watching videos on YouTube it that I can watch a long video over
>multiple sittings, i.e. when I'm eating. Way better than TV.

I've had Tivo now for eighteen years, which provides the same
capability for "TV".

On Wednesday, May 29, 2019 at 4:56:00 PM UTC-4, Bill wrote:
> Jack wrote:
> > On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
> >> Jack wrote:
> >> =C2=A0=C2=A0 I guess they figure if you measure more
> >>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
> >=20
> >> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
> >> circumstances.
> >=20
> > I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length?=C2=A0 Are you saying=20
> > you don't use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot=20
> > because there are no 1/32" markings?
> >=20
> > In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those=20
> > 1/32" measures in the first foot, they just get in the way. =20
> > Regardless of length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way=20
> > between two 1/16" lines. My 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so=20
> > I guess they,(the morons making tapes) think accuracy is only=20
> > important in the first foot on short tapes.=C2=A0 Truth is, 1/32"=20
> > lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance both under and over=20
> > a foot measurements.
>=20
>=20
> I had my H.F. tape measure out with me trimming hedges yesterday,=20
> and thought of you folks and this thread. I wasn't using 32nds,=20
> striving for a delta of 1" on either side of the porch. It's not=20
> as easy as it sounds, the tape measure played a critical role in=20
> my ultimate success--but what I really needed was a "transit"! I=20
> guess in some sense I made one--if you are allowed to count=20
> measuring off of the base of a window frame. It's not easy to=20
> avoid "cosine error" while trying not laughing about it...

I remember my Dad trimming the hedges with scissors. We had this=20
kind of hedge in front of a NYC row house. Maybe 3 feet tall, 15
linear feet. This would have been too sloppy for my Dad, thus the=20
need for scissors.

https://tinyurl.com/NYC-HedgeBush


Full link:

https://static.turbosquid.com/Preview/2014/07/11__03_25_07/hedge_part_3_4.j=
pg899f5ea6-5b52-4385-9bfe-2da32f57912dOriginal.jpg

Jack wrote:

> Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time
> though.  Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).

Try Hobby-Machinist.com
I've been thinking about whether I might be able to make some
plane parts. I don't own a lathe or a mill though, so far. But I
am keeping my eyes open for a "deal" while I learn.

On 5/22/2019 8:48 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 7:01:32 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>
> YouTube however has a
>> ton of bad stuff, and a lot of it is guys making lousy videos of
>> horrible techniques. Some of them even mention they never did this
>> before! Why in the hell are they making a video, that they don't know
>> how to make or edit, of something they have no clue about, and then
>> putting it on YouTube.
>
>
> After all the other cons mentioned, of the different TV shows, plus the bad YouTube folks, they probably don't have/use the best woodworkers tape measure.
>
> Sonny
>


ROTFLMAO... Yeah, we wen of on a tangent,,,,,,again.

On 5/23/2019 9:13 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> writes:
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>> If you are into one pocket, the best ever is a recent match
>>> between Tony Chohan and Dennis Orcolo.  It was streamed by POV
>>> pool and is in 3 parts.  Race to 30 for $50k. These are two of
>>> the best one pocket players on earth, Tony probably number one.
>>
>> Thanks, I wrote it down for later. One thing I like about
>> watching videos on YouTube it that I can watch a long video over
>> multiple sittings, i.e. when I'm eating. Way better than TV.
>
> I've had Tivo now for eighteen years, which provides the same
> capability for "TV".
>

We have a DVR too since 2003. Way back when before HD, DirecTV Tivo,
when it was only standard Def. Now DirecTV DVR non Tivo But it does
have its limits.

Oddly I still pay DirecTV about the same now as I did 16 years ago.

On 5/18/2019 8:21 AM, Jack wrote:

>>
> I don't particularly care who makes my tapes, I have a ton of them.  My
> main gripe is all of them I have have 1/32" increments in the first
> foot.  This is useless, no, worse than useless, imo.
>

I used them often. For my use the tape would be no good without them.
I can get that with a 12" scale but a tape is easier to carry around.
So, your opinion does not matter to many of us.

On 5/22/2019 10:08 PM, Unquestionably Confused wrote:
> On 5/22/2019 7:01 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 5/21/2019 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 5/21/2019 8:03 AM, Jack wrote:
>>
>>>> Everything I'm interested in can be found on youtube, and about
>>>> NOTHING I'm interested in can be found on regular TV. Even if regular
>>>> tv has something, say woodworking, it sucks, and sucks big time.
>>>> Thinking of Lamo Scott Phillips show American Woodshop, the Woodsmith
>>>> shop and so on. Lots of bad woodworking stuff on youtube too, but lots
>>>> of good stuff as well.
>>>
>>> While piling on, Scott Phillips is probably the worst.  This guy built,
>>> on TV, what promised to be a great shop, several years ago.  It was
>>> immediately a pig sty.
>
> Scott Phillips:  Soft as a grape.  His wife isn't much better.


Did you get to touch both of them?? ;~)

Jack wrote:

> I also have Roku but quit watching it when Comcast came out with
> the YouTube app, and AT&T bought Ustream and Roku stopped
> streaming Ustream, which I used to watch live pool  matches.
> YouTube now has a zillion pool videos, and sometimes streams them
> live.

I watched some snooker matches (I think the season is coming to
an end). Most matches with Ronny O'Sullivan (sp?) are good. I
also can appreciate a good one-pocket match. I find watching
either of those games to be relaxing. People have become so
good at 8-ball and 9-ball that I don't find it that entertaining
to watch. OTOH, when I was playing a bit, I liked to play 9
ball. I don't think I've ever caught a match "live" on YouTube,
but usually, the videos come out on YouTube within a couple of hours.

I just looked up "X1 TV box". It reminds me of my Roku device.
Any advantages to it? Looks like I can get one for $30 on
Amazon. To humor you, I should mention that our dog has "eaten" 3
Roku remote controls (see if your dog likes them!) ; ) We now
try to remember to pick up the remote controls up every time we
leave the room.

On Sunday, May 19, 2019 at 12:32:14 PM UTC-7, J. Clarke wrote:

> Or somewhere in between. For that I find a micrometer is more
> efficacious than a tape measure. But if the fit really matters trial
> cuts and adjustment are time consuming but the "right" way to do it.

I've had good results from cutting a joint slightly too loose, using
feeler gages to measure the gap, then adjusting my fence for the difference.
A thousandths-of-an-inch dial gage can tell you how far the fence is moved...

On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 7:01:32 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:

YouTube however has a
> ton of bad stuff, and a lot of it is guys making lousy videos of
> horrible techniques. Some of them even mention they never did this
> before! Why in the hell are they making a video, that they don't know
> how to make or edit, of something they have no clue about, and then
> putting it on YouTube.


After all the other cons mentioned, of the different TV shows, plus the bad YouTube folks, they probably don't have/use the best woodworkers tape measure.

Sonny

On 5/24/2019 7:11 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 5/23/2019 11:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> The beauty to watching video's over and over is that you can catch parts
>> you missed when you doze off.  ;~)
>
> I record How the Universe Works, and Spaces Deepest Secrets. The shows
> are pretty much garbage and boring, but they put me to sleep within 5
> minutes. First, the videos are mostly fake, so you don't need to watch
> them (videos of the big bang 14 million years ago, black holes which you
> can't see, even IF they exist, and so on) This means you can just close
> your eyes, and be put to sleep.  I wake up in the middle of the night,
> fast forward from the beginning 5 minutes (where I last fell asleep) and
> wham, in minutes I'm back in dream land, and no drugs needed. One show
> lasts at least a week before I delete it for a new one:-)

You know there is a growing number of people, soon to be a majority of
people, that believe that the big bang was actually filmed as it
happened. A lot of these people are government leaders and those that
they have promised to take care of, to get their votes.

I was reading NextDoor, a local neighborhood information source. A
woman took several pictures of "earth worms" and asked the neighbors if
these were snakes. This is where we are headed.

On 5/21/2019 8:03 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 5/21/2019 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time
>>> though.  Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).
>>
>> Try Hobby-Machinist.com
>> I've been thinking about whether I might be able to make some plane
>> parts. I don't own a lathe or a mill though, so far. But I am keeping my
>> eyes open for a "deal" while I learn.
>
> That's a web page.  I like watching videos on Youtube on my big screen
> TV's (Comcast here has a built in YouTube app) I about completely
> stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
> Youtube.  I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
> Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.

I put a couple of miles on the tread mill almost every day, You Tube on
a 32" TV "right in front" of the tread mill gets me through the drudgery.



>
> Everything I'm interested in can be found on youtube, and about NOTHING
> I'm interested in can be found on regular TV. Even if regular tv has
> something, say woodworking, it sucks, and sucks big time.  Thinking of
> Lamo Scott Phillips show American Woodshop, the Woodsmith shop and so
> on. Lots of bad woodworking stuff on youtube too, but lots of good stuff
> as well.

While piling on, Scott Phillips is probably the worst. This guy built,
on TV, what promised to be a great shop, several years ago. It was
immediately a pig sty.

Then there was the Johnson guy that had some kind of a, I cut wood show,
that was determined to convince every one that a Sliding Miter saw was
actually a RAS. Idiot!

I do not mind Woodsmith except that it is tooooooooooooo
freakingggggggggggg slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

And now there is a girl that has a Mansion Restoration Show. Jeez,
where do I start.
Her dad is on the show and makes unnecessary commentary.
She wants to sound like an expert in her field but sadly is just one of
those "dreamer designers".
Several clips show her doing what a remodeled does, work with their hands.

She paints large flat panels,against the grain with a small paint brush.
She removes wall fixtures set screws with a screwdriver made for
tightening screws in a pair of glasses frames.
She uses her Sliding miter saw like A RAS. She might be related to the
Johnson guy mentioned above.
She pulls the blade through the cut instead of pushing it.

Oh! I'll will never forget Brad Staggs Master Workshop! Or what ever
he called his show.
This idiot dedicated a portion of his show to showing how to properly
use a dodo blade on a TS.
Imagine the look on his face while cutting a dado with out removing the
blade guard. He had that look of, hummmmm why is the board not passing
past the blades??? IDIOT!

And they put this stuff on TV!

David Marks was pretty good, and naturally it is gone today.

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:

> On 5/21/2019 8:03 AM, Jack wrote:
> > On 5/21/2019 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
> >> Jack wrote:
> >>
> >>> Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time
> >>> though.  Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).
> >>
> >> Try Hobby-Machinist.com
> >> I've been thinking about whether I might be able to make some plane
> >> parts. I don't own a lathe or a mill though, so far. But I am keeping my
> >> eyes open for a "deal" while I learn.
> >
> > That's a web page.  I like watching videos on Youtube on my big screen
> > TV's (Comcast here has a built in YouTube app) I about completely
> > stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
> > Youtube.  I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
> > Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.
>
> I put a couple of miles on the tread mill almost every day, You Tube on
> a 32" TV "right in front" of the tread mill gets me through the drudgery.
>
>
>
> >
> > Everything I'm interested in can be found on youtube, and about NOTHING
> > I'm interested in can be found on regular TV. Even if regular tv has
> > something, say woodworking, it sucks, and sucks big time.  Thinking of
> > Lamo Scott Phillips show American Woodshop, the Woodsmith shop and so
> > on. Lots of bad woodworking stuff on youtube too, but lots of good stuff
> > as well.
>
> While piling on, Scott Phillips is probably the worst. This guy built,
> on TV, what promised to be a great shop, several years ago. It was
> immediately a pig sty.
>
> Then there was the Johnson guy that had some kind of a, I cut wood show,
> that was determined to convince every one that a Sliding Miter saw was
> actually a RAS. Idiot!
>
> I do not mind Woodsmith except that it is tooooooooooooo
> freakingggggggggggg slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
>
> And now there is a girl that has a Mansion Restoration Show. Jeez,
> where do I start.
> Her dad is on the show and makes unnecessary commentary.
> She wants to sound like an expert in her field but sadly is just one of
> those "dreamer designers".
> Several clips show her doing what a remodeled does, work with their hands.
>
> She paints large flat panels,against the grain with a small paint brush.
> She removes wall fixtures set screws with a screwdriver made for
> tightening screws in a pair of glasses frames.
> She uses her Sliding miter saw like A RAS. She might be related to the
> Johnson guy mentioned above.
> She pulls the blade through the cut instead of pushing it.
>
> Oh! I'll will never forget Brad Staggs Master Workshop! Or what ever
> he called his show.
> This idiot dedicated a portion of his show to showing how to properly
> use a dodo blade on a TS.
> Imagine the look on his face while cutting a dado with out removing the
> blade guard. He had that look of, hummmmm why is the board not passing
> past the blades??? IDIOT!
>
> And they put this stuff on TV!
>
> David Marks was pretty good, and naturally it is gone today.

...this got me to thinking

Does anyone actually get "Rough Cut with Fine Woodworking" (or is it "Classic Woodworking"?) on their local PBS affiliate?
I don't think I've seen anybody comment on the new show.
"The show, which airs on more than 200 stations" according to this:
<https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/news/woodworking-industry-news/star-carpenter-tommy-mac-countersued-former-tv-station>

A quick Google of "Rough Cut with Fine Woodworking" resulted w/this:
<https://nhpbs.org/schedule/series.aspx?progName=Rough+Cut+with+Fine+Woodworking>
which links to:
<https://www.finewoodworking.com/classic-woodworking>

So it appears it is/was on in some areas...

On Sunday, May 26, 2019 at 9:19:39 AM UTC-4, Jack wrote:
> On 5/25/2019 11:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 5:01:25 AM UTC-7, Jack wrote:
> >> On 5/24/2019 12:24 PM, Leon wrote:
> >>> On 5/24/2019 7:11 AM, Jack wrote:
> >>>> On 5/23/2019 11:52 AM, Leon wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> The beauty to watching video's over and over is that you can catch parts
> >>>>> you missed when you doze off. ;~)
> >>>>
> >>>> I record How the Universe Works, and Spaces Deepest Secrets. The shows
> >>>> are pretty much garbage and boring, but they put me to sleep within 5
> >>>> minutes. First, the videos are mostly fake, so you don't need to watch
> >>>> them (videos of the big bang 14 million years ago, black holes which
> >>>> you can't see, even IF they exist, and so on) This means you can just
> >>>> close your eyes, and be put to sleep. I wake up in the middle of the
> >>>> night, fast forward from the beginning 5 minutes (where I last fell
> >>>> asleep) and wham, in minutes I'm back in dream land, and no drugs
> >>>> needed. One show lasts at least a week before I delete it for a new
> >>>> one:-)
> >>>
> >>> You know there is a growing number of people, soon to be a majority of
> >>> people, that believe that the big bang was actually filmed as it
> >>> happened. A lot of these people are government leaders and those that
> >>> they have promised to take care of, to get their votes.
> >>
> >> Yep, lots of complete morons around.
> >>>
> >>> I was reading NextDoor, a local neighborhood information source. A
> >>> woman took several pictures of "earth worms" and asked the neighbors if
> >>> these were snakes. This is where we are headed.
> >>
> >> I think we are there, not "headed". I watched a couple of "Louder with
> >> Clouder" or whatever he calls his show on youtube and he goes to college
> >> campuses and interviews anyone that will talk to him. Besides the
> >> totally asinine views and stupidity of these left wing morons, what
> >> stuck me even more was the totally slovenly appearance of all of them.
> >> These kids look like losers to the nth degree, with bad attitudes, bad
> >> personal hygiene, lack of respect for themselves and the world. A while
> >> back there was a slogan, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste". Well,
> >> seems our educational system combined with lousy parenting has brought
> >> an incredible percent of our population to it's knees.
> >>
> >
> > Do you mean Louder With Crowder? If so...
>
> I reckon that's him.
>
> >
> > I'm not picking sides, but I don't think it's fair to judge any particular
> > segment of society based on what you see on that show. I didn't know who
> > he was or what his show was about, so I looked him up:
> >
> > "Steven Blake Crowder is a Canadian-American conservative political
> > commentator, actor, and comedian. He is the host of Louder with Crowder,
> > a late-night style comedic television show covering news, pop culture,
> > and politics."
> >
> > My guess, if I take "conservative political commentator" and combine it
> > with "actor/comedian", is that there just might be a sight slant to his choice
> > of "guests" for his show. (Yes, I did watch a few minutes of a few shows.)
>
> Yes, I agree but, the two shows I watched were outside on a college
> campuses. He could choose who he interviewed, but could NOT choose the
> crowd of students milling about. He actually couldn't even choose who
> he interviewed, he asked anyone that would talk to him to do so. That is
> lots different than the interviews regular TV types that do the man on
> the street type stuff where you see 6 interviews and all of them are
> ridiculous. The answers they get that they don't like, or don't fit
> their agenda hit the cutting room floor. He could just be really good at
> it, but I don't think so, I think he just flies with whatever he gets.
>
> > I know lots of recent college students, including 2 daughters with 3 Masters
> > degrees between them, a son's girlfriend who just got her PhD, and many of
> > their friends. Some of them are certainly more left leaning than right, but
> > there's not a "slovenly looking asinine loser" in the group.
>
> That's a small group in relation to the millions and millions of college
> students. Anyway, I don't recall what was going on at the schools. He
> set up a table and tried to get anyone he could to talk to him. It
> could have been an anti-American rally for all I know.
>
> > Crowder (and others) will show his viewers who he wants them to see on the
> > hope that certain general opinions will be formed. I'll bet that if he
> > interviewed some of the college students that I know, they wouldn't make
> > the...I mean...*his* cut. They just don't fit the stereotype he is trying
> > to build.
>
> That's true enough I reckon. I don't watch him, just parts of a couple
> shows. He is not my style, but that's what I got out of what I saw. Your
> comment on a woman asking if earth worms were snakes reminded me of the
> morons I've seen on campuses, and particularly college professors I've
> seen on TV.

You must have me confused with someone else. I don't recall making any
comment related to women, earthworms or snakes.


> I've seen students and professors in the news protesting
> conservative speakers, and they look like the same losers.
>
> When I went to college, politics was not an issue, and you got in based
> on academics, not race, sex, sexual habits or whatever they do today.
> Probably could get in if mommy donated a wing or two to the school.
>
> --
> Jack
> Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

Jack wrote:
  I guess they figure if you measure more
> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.


I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under
those circumstances. Except admittedly, it's hard to measure a
circumference that way. Did they have tape measures in the 17th
and 18th century? If not, I guess we don't need them! ; )

On 5/22/2019 7:01 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 5/21/2019 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 5/21/2019 8:03 AM, Jack wrote:
>
>>> Everything I'm interested in can be found on youtube, and about
>>> NOTHING I'm interested in can be found on regular TV. Even if regular
>>> tv has something, say woodworking, it sucks, and sucks big time.
>>> Thinking of Lamo Scott Phillips show American Woodshop, the Woodsmith
>>> shop and so on. Lots of bad woodworking stuff on youtube too, but lots
>>> of good stuff as well.
>>
>> While piling on, Scott Phillips is probably the worst.  This guy built,
>> on TV, what promised to be a great shop, several years ago.  It was
>> immediately a pig sty.

Scott Phillips: Soft as a grape. His wife isn't much better.

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>On 5/19/2019 2:32 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:35:29 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/19/2019 9:43 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>>    I guess they figure if you measure more
>>>>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>>>>
>>>>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>>>>> circumstances.
>>>>
>>>> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length?  Are you saying you don't
>>>> use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot because there are no
>>>> 1/32" markings?
>>>>
>>>> In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those 1/32"
>>>> measures in the first foot, they just get in the way.  Regardless of
>>>> length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way between two 1/16" lines. My
>>>> 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so I guess they,(the morons making
>>>> tapes) think accuracy is only important in the first foot on short
>>>> tapes.  Truth is, 1/32" lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance
>>>> both under and over a foot measurements.
>>>
>>> FWIW and, yes, I know there are other ways to skin this cat; how about
>>> measuring a sheet of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for setting a dado? Rarely is
>>> plywood exactly what it is sold as. It can vary by a 16th or 32nd.
>>
>> Or somewhere in between. For that I find a micrometer is more
>> efficacious than a tape measure. But if the fit really matters trial
>> cuts and adjustment are time consuming but the "right" way to do it.
>
>Sneaking up on the fit is a band aid fix for improper measuring up to
>that point.

For the aforementioned case, I'd probably sneak up on the
correct stacked-dado/shim combination required to match the plywood
rather than trying to measure the stacked dado + shims.

On 5/20/2019 1:08 PM, Jack wrote:

>
> True dat.  But, they ain't micrometers under a foot either, so 1/32"
> marks in the first foot doesn't turn them into micrometers either, so
> while the marks aren't needed in over a foot measurements, they're also
> not needed under a foot measurements.
>

Not for you but what about others? Tape measures are used for many
things aside from woodwork. Surely you recognize that others have
different needs than you.

On 5/17/2019 9:12 PM, Michael wrote:
> My old tape measure is just about done. I thought I'd get a Milwaukee since I like things they make, but the reviews are not that good. What is the best 16-foot tape measure?
>
> Thanks.
>

Well buying a brand for the sake of buying that brand will not always
yield the same results that you expect.

I personally like to use Fast Cap tape measures, they feel good in my
hand and have a lifetime, no questions asked warranty.

I DO NOT TRUST any tape measure. I only use tape measures as a second
or third, double or triple check of a crucial measurement laid out by
steel or aluminum rules and or story sticks.

Sooner or later the end of a tape measure will get bent or the holes
that the rivets pass through will enlarge from use. From that point,
for me, the tape measure is worthless.

On 5/22/2019 9:06 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 5/21/2019 1:58 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
>> On Tue, 21 May 2019 09:03:58 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I about completely
>>> stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
>>> Youtube.  I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
>>> Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.
>>>
>> Check out mtmwood on Youtube. He doesn't do many videos now, however, he
>> went from a garage operation to a production plant doing end grain
>> cutting
>> boards. I especially like this one.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVd-jxTmq4g
>
> Yes, I believe I watched that one before.  Very nice cutting board. Not
> my style of shop though, too clean, too, neat, too many Festering tools.
> (Through that in for Leon:-))

Thank you Jack. LOL. I am familiar with this guy too. I never noticed
the Festool till now though. I was more impressed with his large
stationary equipment.



>
> Here's my type of woodwork show. Engels Coach Shop. This guy is a pro,
> and knows how to do stuff.  He builds and restores old wagons, coaches,
> wheels and all that.  Not stuff many do, but wow, he does it all, and
> does good video's, showing exactly how it's done. Although not something
> many would ever do, it is enjoyable for wood workers to watch.  Here are
> a few I grabbed at random, but he has a lot of them:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ5RemOVyaw
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0xj7OujbwU
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9UPihp04xY
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Tue, 21 May 2019 08:34:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:

>On 5/21/2019 8:03 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 5/21/2019 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time
>>>> though.  Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).
>>>
>>> Try Hobby-Machinist.com
>>> I've been thinking about whether I might be able to make some plane
>>> parts. I don't own a lathe or a mill though, so far. But I am keeping my
>>> eyes open for a "deal" while I learn.
>>
>> That's a web page.  I like watching videos on Youtube on my big screen
>> TV's (Comcast here has a built in YouTube app) I about completely
>> stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
>> Youtube.  I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
>> Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.
>
>I put a couple of miles on the tread mill almost every day, You Tube on
>a 32" TV "right in front" of the tread mill gets me through the drudgery.

+1
I walk 8-1/2 miles on the treadmill every day (2-1/2hrs). It wouldn't
be possible without Netflix and Prime.

>> Everything I'm interested in can be found on youtube, and about NOTHING
>> I'm interested in can be found on regular TV. Even if regular tv has
>> something, say woodworking, it sucks, and sucks big time.  Thinking of
>> Lamo Scott Phillips show American Woodshop, the Woodsmith shop and so
>> on. Lots of bad woodworking stuff on youtube too, but lots of good stuff
>> as well.
>
>While piling on, Scott Phillips is probably the worst. This guy built,
>on TV, what promised to be a great shop, several years ago. It was
>immediately a pig sty.
>
>Then there was the Johnson guy that had some kind of a, I cut wood show,
>that was determined to convince every one that a Sliding Miter saw was
>actually a RAS. Idiot!
>
>I do not mind Woodsmith except that it is tooooooooooooo
>freakingggggggggggg slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
>
>And now there is a girl that has a Mansion Restoration Show. Jeez,
>where do I start.
>Her dad is on the show and makes unnecessary commentary.
>She wants to sound like an expert in her field but sadly is just one of
>those "dreamer designers".
>Several clips show her doing what a remodeled does, work with their hands.
>
>She paints large flat panels,against the grain with a small paint brush.
>She removes wall fixtures set screws with a screwdriver made for
>tightening screws in a pair of glasses frames.
>She uses her Sliding miter saw like A RAS. She might be related to the
>Johnson guy mentioned above.
>She pulls the blade through the cut instead of pushing it.
>
>Oh! I'll will never forget Brad Staggs Master Workshop! Or what ever
>he called his show.
>This idiot dedicated a portion of his show to showing how to properly
>use a dodo blade on a TS.
>Imagine the look on his face while cutting a dado with out removing the
>blade guard. He had that look of, hummmmm why is the board not passing
>past the blades??? IDIOT!
>
>And they put this stuff on TV!
>
>David Marks was pretty good, and naturally it is gone today.
>
I guess there is a reason I don't watch Youtube.

On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:35:29 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/19/2019 9:43 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Jack wrote:
>>>    I guess they figure if you measure more
>>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>>
>>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>>> circumstances.
>>
>> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length?  Are you saying you don't
>> use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot because there are no
>> 1/32" markings?
>>
>> In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those 1/32"
>> measures in the first foot, they just get in the way.  Regardless of
>> length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way between two 1/16" lines. My
>> 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so I guess they,(the morons making
>> tapes) think accuracy is only important in the first foot on short
>> tapes.  Truth is, 1/32" lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance
>> both under and over a foot measurements.
>
>FWIW and, yes, I know there are other ways to skin this cat; how about
>measuring a sheet of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for setting a dado? Rarely is
>plywood exactly what it is sold as. It can vary by a 16th or 32nd.

Or somewhere in between. For that I find a micrometer is more
efficacious than a tape measure. But if the fit really matters trial
cuts and adjustment are time consuming but the "right" way to do it.
>
>Sure, it's easy enough to cut the baby in half as you suggest but if
>there were no 32nd" marks on the tape you can bet the manufacturer's
>would probably hear gripes about their absence.
>
>>
>>> Except admittedly, it's hard to measure a circumference
>>> that way.  Did they have tape measures in the 17th and 18th century?  If
>>> not, I guess we don't need them!   ; )
>>
>> I wasn't around then, but sometimes it feels like I was. I know they
>> didn't have digital calibers, that's for sure.
>>

On 5/23/2019 8:40 AM, Bill wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>
>> If you are into one pocket, the best ever is a recent match between
>> Tony Chohan and Dennis Orcolo.  It was streamed by POV pool and is in
>> 3 parts.  Race to 30 for $50k. These are two of the best one pocket
>> players on earth, Tony probably number one.
>
> Thanks, I wrote it down for later.  One thing I like about watching
> videos on YouTube it that I can watch a long video over multiple
> sittings, i.e. when I'm eating. Way better than TV.
>
> Bill

The beauty to watching video's over and over is that you can catch parts
you missed when you doze off. ;~)

On 5/19/2019 9:43 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>>    I guess they figure if you measure more
>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>
>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>> circumstances.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length?  Are you saying you don't
> use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot because there are no
> 1/32" markings?
>
> In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those 1/32"
> measures in the first foot, they just get in the way.  Regardless of
> length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way between two 1/16" lines. My
> 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so I guess they,(the morons making
> tapes) think accuracy is only important in the first foot on short
> tapes.  Truth is, 1/32" lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance
> both under and over a foot measurements.

FWIW and, yes, I know there are other ways to skin this cat; how about
measuring a sheet of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for setting a dado? Rarely is
plywood exactly what it is sold as. It can vary by a 16th or 32nd.

Sure, it's easy enough to cut the baby in half as you suggest but if
there were no 32nd" marks on the tape you can bet the manufacturer's
would probably hear gripes about their absence.

>
>> Except admittedly, it's hard to measure a circumference
>> that way.  Did they have tape measures in the 17th and 18th century?  If
>> not, I guess we don't need them!   ; )
>
> I wasn't around then, but sometimes it feels like I was. I know they
> didn't have digital calibers, that's for sure.
>

On Sun, 19 May 2019 10:43:39 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

>On 5/18/2019 10:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 5/18/2019 8:21 AM, Jack wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>> I don't particularly care who makes my tapes, I have a ton of them.
>>> My main gripe is all of them I have have 1/32" increments in the first
>>> foot. This is useless, no, worse than useless, imo.
>>>
>>
>> I used them often. For my use the tape would be no good without them. I
>> can get that with a 12" scale but a tape is easier to carry around.
>
>So, I reckon you can't make accurate measurements with anything over a
>foot in length unless it lands exactly on a 16th? Pretty sad, in my opinion.

I wouldn't count on a tape measure to be more accurate than that
anyway. They aren't micrometers.
>
>> So, your opinion does not matter to many of us.
>
>He asked for opinions, I took the time to give him mine. I guess you
>took a survey of "many of us" to see if my opinion matters to anyone?
>
>If my opinion doesn't matter to you, then don't read my posts. Pretty
>simple.

On 5/17/2019 10:12 PM, Michael wrote:
> My old tape measure is just about done. I thought I'd get a Milwaukee since I like things they make, but the reviews are not that good. What is the best 16-foot tape measure?
>
I don't particularly care who makes my tapes, I have a ton of them. My
main gripe is all of them I have have 1/32" increments in the first
foot. This is useless, no, worse than useless, imo.

I seldom work on carpentry projects any more, but in my cabinet shop I
like a small tape, 12' is more than enough. I prefer Stanely, they
always made good tapes, and that's my goto tape, a 12' Stanley Power
lock. I also have a 16' Fastcap "old Standby" that is OK. The Fastcap
return spring is too strong. Stanley has prefect return spring tension.

Both of these have those dammed useless 1/32" markings in the first
foot. I hated those when I was young and could actually see them
clearly. I have zero problems making accurate marks between 1/16"
lines. I guess they figure if you measure more than a foot, you don't
need 1/32" accuracy.

Also, as I mentioned, I have a ton of tapes. One day I compared all of
them for accuracy. Stanley and Fastcap were right on, many of the others
were not. Doesn't matter much if you only use one tape, but keep that
in mind. Cheap tapes in the bargain barrel are generally inaccurate, but
good idea to check each tape you have.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On Fri, 17 May 2019 19:12:16 -0700, Michael wrote:

> My old tape measure is just about done. I thought I'd get a Milwaukee
> since I like things they make, but the reviews are not that good. What
> is the best 16-foot tape measure?
>
> Thanks.

You may wish to consider this one:
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?
p=65357&cat=1,46158,75230,75235&ap=1

On 5/17/2019 11:28 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
...

> I've had good luck with Stanley FatMax. I don't know how durable they
> are--I tend to lose them long before they're worn out--but they do
> everything I want them to do. Only real downside is that to get the
> standout they achieve they've got a lot of dish in the tape.
...

I've had a lot of trouble with them kinking trying to use the standout
feature...they don't recover gracefully at all as some others will. One
kink and that blade is done in my experience while others have the
temper to recover. This seems more evident with later versions -- like
they've tried to cheapen the manufacturing by less expensive blade
material--I don't have old to compare to but my intuition and
recollection makes me think are thinner blades than used to be...

--

On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
> Jack wrote:
> I guess they figure if you measure more
>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.

> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
> circumstances.

I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length? Are you saying you don't
use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot because there are no
1/32" markings?

In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those 1/32"
measures in the first foot, they just get in the way. Regardless of
length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way between two 1/16" lines.
My 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so I guess they,(the morons making
tapes) think accuracy is only important in the first foot on short
tapes. Truth is, 1/32" lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance
both under and over a foot measurements.

>Except admittedly, it's hard to measure a circumference
> that way. Did they have tape measures in the 17th and 18th century? If
> not, I guess we don't need them! ; )

I wasn't around then, but sometimes it feels like I was. I know they
didn't have digital calibers, that's for sure.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/18/2019 10:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/18/2019 8:21 AM, Jack wrote:
>
>>>
>> I don't particularly care who makes my tapes, I have a ton of them.
>> My main gripe is all of them I have have 1/32" increments in the first
>> foot. This is useless, no, worse than useless, imo.
>>
>
> I used them often. For my use the tape would be no good without them. I
> can get that with a 12" scale but a tape is easier to carry around.

So, I reckon you can't make accurate measurements with anything over a
foot in length unless it lands exactly on a 16th? Pretty sad, in my opinion.

> So, your opinion does not matter to many of us.

He asked for opinions, I took the time to give him mine. I guess you
took a survey of "many of us" to see if my opinion matters to anyone?

If my opinion doesn't matter to you, then don't read my posts. Pretty
simple.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/19/2019 6:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2019 10:43:39 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 5/18/2019 10:18 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 5/18/2019 8:21 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't particularly care who makes my tapes, I have a ton of them.
>>>> My main gripe is all of them I have have 1/32" increments in the first
>>>> foot. This is useless, no, worse than useless, imo.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I used them often. For my use the tape would be no good without them. I
>>> can get that with a 12" scale but a tape is easier to carry around.
>>
>> So, I reckon you can't make accurate measurements with anything over a
>> foot in length unless it lands exactly on a 16th? Pretty sad, in my opinion.
>
> I wouldn't count on a tape measure to be more accurate than that
> anyway. They aren't micrometers.

True dat. But, they ain't micrometers under a foot either, so 1/32"
marks in the first foot doesn't turn them into micrometers either, so
while the marks aren't needed in over a foot measurements, they're also
not needed under a foot measurements.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/19/2019 8:41 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Both of these have those dammed useless 1/32" markings in the first
>> foot. I hated those when I was young and could actually see them
>> clearly. I have zero problems making accurate marks between 1/16"
>> lines. I guess they figure if you measure more than a foot, you don't
>> need 1/32" accuracy.
>
> +1
>
> <https://www.homedepot.com/p/Milwaukee-12-ft-Compact-Tape-Measure-48-22-6612/302646670>
> <https://cdn-tp3.mozu.com/24645-37138/cms/37138/files/0e2c1b23-116d-44eb-9242-a82bd3b0ae94>
>
> <https://www.amazon.com/Komelon-SM5412-Gripper-Acrylic-Measuring/dp/B008AGWNK6/>
> <https://www.lowes.com/pd/Komelon-Self-Lock-Evolution-12-ft-Auto-Lock-Tape-Measure/4177183>
>
> <https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lufkin-3-4-in-x-12-ft-Quikread-Power-Return-Tape-Measure-PQR1312N/302574660>
>
Thank Walt. I looked up the 12' Milwaukee and saw nothing about what
the markings were. However, I looked at the reviews, and on the 2nd
page saw this:

The 1/8" fractional labels are a little busy, but still add to
readability. I'm glad Milwaukee decided against annotating the 1/16"
ticks, since that would have crowded the tape too much."

I don't "hate" the 1/16" markings, but I wonder if this guy really meant
1/32" markings? Also, this guy was talking about the 16' tape under the
12' tape review. I like 12' tapes, I used to have a 10' Stanley that I
wore out. Never found a replacement for it, but it was really nice for
cabinet work, and it laid pretty flat.

I don't like tapes with long standout in the shop because not needed in
a cabinet shop and the curve hinders accuracy. Standout is good for
carpentry though.

Next time I'm at HD I'll check this one out.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/20/2019 2:15 AM, Bill wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Jack wrote:
>>> I guess they figure if you measure more
>>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>>
>>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>>> circumstances.
>>
>> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length? Are you saying you
>> don't use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot because there
>> are no 1/32" markings?
>
> I meant "copy" in the spirit of using a "story stick" (a few other
> posters jogged my memory for that term).
I suspected that was what you meant, but couldn't think of the term
either. I use them my self occasionally.

I can markup four boards of
> the same length that way. There is no way I could do as well with a tape
> measure, except for the first one.

Yes, the first one you likely will use a tape. No getting around using
a tape in woodwork, and I personally don't need, like or want those
dammed 1/32" marks.

I often reach for one of my steel squares--except when I head out shopping.

I use my dads combo square all the time (it's older than me). Mine has
1/8" grooves on one side, 1/16" on the other, and never in my life did I
yearn for 1/32" markings.

I often tote a very small or
> medium sized tape measure in my pocket, the way some people tote a
> pocket knife.

I do the same with a small 6' Stanley that fits in my watch pocket.
Finally found a use for a watch pocket.

Only a woodworker would carry a tape everywhere he goes:-)

I have a Starrett combination square that goes to 64th's
> and/or hundredths (ha!) if I want to be "serious". But honestly, I have
> a micrometer that works great for measuring less than 1" and (H.F.)
> digital calipers that work great for measuring up to 12". I like using
> the calipers even when the battery is dead--it's like a story stick.

I also have a HF digital caliper. I have the same gripe about it. The
fractional measurements are 1/128". It's really hard to get them to
land on courser numbers, so I'm always doing the math for 15/128 to get
to something I can use. Also, the damned batteries go dead so I have to
remove them every time I'm done using it. I have found them WAY more
useful than I thought I would though, and have been thinking of buying a
better set with AA batteries that wouldn't go dead when off.
I'd REALLY like a set where the fractional granularity was more course,
or adjustable. I doubt they make them though.

> My dad liked to keep (in the car) one of those old-fashioned 12' (?)
> fold-up rules that I think were sometimes used for rough lumber. I
> suggested that it might not be accurate, but he disagreed. Of course, he
> didn't often make furniture, and I never saw him use one in the house.
> Still I think that he liked it much the way you like your tape measure!

My Dad had one too, and I have it in my shed. I almost never use it
though, but they have some usefulness I guess. I think they are accurate
enough for most wood work.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/20/2019 10:59 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/19/2019 2:32 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
lywood exactly what it is sold as. It can vary by a 16th or 32nd.
>>
>> Or somewhere in between. For that I find a micrometer is more
>> efficacious than a tape measure. But if the fit really matters trial
>> cuts and adjustment are time consuming but the "right" way to do it.
>
> Sneaking up on the fit is a band aid fix for improper measuring up to
> that point. I certainly sneak up on fit in many cases but it is usually
> when considering inconsistent thicknesses on sheet goods used in
> multiple layers.

I always do a test fit when cutting dado's in anything. I have tapes
with 1/32" measures, digital calibers with 1/128th measurements, and
dial indicator with 1000's of an inch. I just do the trial and error,
which generally works the first time with my dado set. Next time though
I think I'll try the digital calipers, that should work quite well, but
still will do the old test cut.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/20/2019 11:26 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> writes:
>> On 5/19/2019 2:32 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>>> On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:35:29 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/19/2019 9:43 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>>> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>>> Â Â I guess they figure if you measure more
>>>>>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>>>>>> circumstances.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length? Are you saying you don't
>>>>> use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot because there are no
>>>>> 1/32" markings?
>>>>>
>>>>> In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those 1/32"
>>>>> measures in the first foot, they just get in the way. Regardless of
>>>>> length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way between two 1/16" lines. My
>>>>> 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so I guess they,(the morons making
>>>>> tapes) think accuracy is only important in the first foot on short
>>>>> tapes. Truth is, 1/32" lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance
>>>>> both under and over a foot measurements.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW and, yes, I know there are other ways to skin this cat; how about
>>>> measuring a sheet of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for setting a dado? Rarely is
>>>> plywood exactly what it is sold as. It can vary by a 16th or 32nd.
>>>
>>> Or somewhere in between. For that I find a micrometer is more
>>> efficacious than a tape measure. But if the fit really matters trial
>>> cuts and adjustment are time consuming but the "right" way to do it.
>>
>> Sneaking up on the fit is a band aid fix for improper measuring up to
>> that point.
>
> For the aforementioned case, I'd probably sneak up on the
> correct stacked-dado/shim combination required to match the plywood
> rather than trying to measure the stacked dado + shims.

Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time though.
Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).


--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/21/2019 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>
>> Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time
>> though. Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).
>
> Try Hobby-Machinist.com
> I've been thinking about whether I might be able to make some plane
> parts. I don't own a lathe or a mill though, so far. But I am keeping my
> eyes open for a "deal" while I learn.

That's a web page. I like watching videos on Youtube on my big screen
TV's (Comcast here has a built in YouTube app) I about completely
stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
Youtube. I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.

Everything I'm interested in can be found on youtube, and about NOTHING
I'm interested in can be found on regular TV. Even if regular tv has
something, say woodworking, it sucks, and sucks big time. Thinking of
Lamo Scott Phillips show American Woodshop, the Woodsmith shop and so
on. Lots of bad woodworking stuff on youtube too, but lots of good stuff
as well.

My absolute favorite "TV" star is Andrew Camarata. He has hundreds of
YouTube video's and I think I watched every one of them. He does
everything I did in my youth, and most of everything I dreamed of doing
but never did, like run heavy equipment. His video's are well done, he
can do it all.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/21/2019 9:34 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/21/2019 8:03 AM, Jack wrote:

>> Everything I'm interested in can be found on youtube, and about
>> NOTHING I'm interested in can be found on regular TV. Even if regular
>> tv has something, say woodworking, it sucks, and sucks big time.
>> Thinking of Lamo Scott Phillips show American Woodshop, the Woodsmith
>> shop and so on. Lots of bad woodworking stuff on youtube too, but lots
>> of good stuff as well.
>
> While piling on, Scott Phillips is probably the worst. This guy built,
> on TV, what promised to be a great shop, several years ago. It was
> immediately a pig sty.

Yes, he is really bad. I guarantee his finished products look like crap.
TV hides a lot but his techniques suck. He does seem like a really nice
guy, but that's about it.

> Then there was the Johnson guy that had some kind of a, I cut wood show,
> that was determined to convince every one that a Sliding Miter saw was
> actually a RAS. Idiot!

Don't recall him.

> I do not mind Woodsmith except that it is tooooooooooooo
> freakingggggggggggg slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Yes, the show is not bad BUT, they, like most of these shows skip over
too much tricky stuff and are mostly just assembling stuff. Also, they
started doing parts of projects, like 2 or 3 different projects in each
show, then completing them in 2 or more series. Really lame. I quit
even recording them.

> And now there is a girl that has a Mansion Restoration Show. Jeez,
> where do I start.
> Her dad is on the show and makes unnecessary commentary.
> She wants to sound like an expert in her field but sadly is just one of
> those "dreamer designers".
> Several clips show her doing what a remodeled does, work with their hands.
>
> She paints large flat panels,against the grain with a small paint brush.
> She removes wall fixtures set screws with a screwdriver made for
> tightening screws in a pair of glasses frames.
> She uses her Sliding miter saw like A RAS. She might be related to the
> Johnson guy mentioned above.
> She pulls the blade through the cut instead of pushing it.

Never saw her, but I watch almost no TV.

> Oh! I'll will never forget Brad Staggs Master Workshop! Or what ever
> he called his show.

Never heard of him either.

> David Marks was pretty good, and naturally it is gone today.

Yes, he knew his stuff, so of course his show made it maybe one season
here. Still, TV doesn't allow time for these guys to make a really good
show I guess. YouTube time limits are not there. YouTube however has a
ton of bad stuff, and a lot of it is guys making lousy videos of
horrible techniques. Some of them even mention they never did this
before! Why in the hell are they making a video, that they don't know
how to make or edit, of something they have no clue about, and then
putting it on YouTube.

Still after sorting though things, there is a lot of awesome stuff,
something for everyone for sure.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/21/2019 1:58 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2019 09:03:58 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I about completely
>> stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
>> Youtube. I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
>> Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.
>>
> Check out mtmwood on Youtube. He doesn't do many videos now, however, he
> went from a garage operation to a production plant doing end grain cutting
> boards. I especially like this one.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVd-jxTmq4g

Yes, I believe I watched that one before. Very nice cutting board. Not
my style of shop though, too clean, too, neat, too many Festering tools.
(Through that in for Leon:-))

Here's my type of woodwork show. Engels Coach Shop. This guy is a pro,
and knows how to do stuff. He builds and restores old wagons, coaches,
wheels and all that. Not stuff many do, but wow, he does it all, and
does good video's, showing exactly how it's done. Although not something
many would ever do, it is enjoyable for wood workers to watch. Here are
a few I grabbed at random, but he has a lot of them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ5RemOVyaw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0xj7OujbwU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9UPihp04xY







--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

> On Tue, 21 May 2019 08:34:43 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:

>> And they put this stuff on TV!

>> David Marks was pretty good, and naturally it is gone today.

>> I put a couple of miles on the tread mill almost every day, You Tube on
>> a 32" TV "right in front" of the tread mill gets me through the drudgery.

On 5/21/2019 10:24 PM, @notreal.com wrote:
> +1
> I guess there is a reason I don't watch Youtube.

Yeah, it's opposite from NetFlix. I never found anything worth watching
on NetFlix either. Both TV and Netflix are complete wastelands, almost
completely void of any worthwhile content.

Besides, Leon was not talking about YouTube, he was talking about
regular TV. Leon watches Youtube when on the treadmill.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/22/2019 2:07 AM, Bill wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>> On 5/21/2019 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
>>> Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time
>>>> though. Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).
>>>
>>> Try Hobby-Machinist.com
>>> I've been thinking about whether I might be able to make some plane
>>> parts. I don't own a lathe or a mill though, so far. But I am keeping my
>>> eyes open for a "deal" while I learn.
>>
>> That's a web page. I like watching videos on Youtube on my big screen
>> TV's (Comcast here has a built in YouTube app) I about completely
>> stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
>> Youtube.
>
> Me too, with Roku. But what's wrong with a web page forum (where you
> can ask questions)?

I also have Roku but quit watching it when Comcast came out with the
YouTube app, and AT&T bought Ustream and Roku stopped streaming Ustream,
which I used to watch live pool matches. YouTube now has a zillion
pool videos, and sometimes streams them live.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/22/2019 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/22/2019 8:48 AM, Sonny wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 22, 2019 at 7:01:32 AM UTC-5, Jack wrote:
>>
>> YouTube however has a
>>> ton of bad stuff, and a lot of it is guys making lousy videos of
>>> horrible techniques. Some of them even mention they never did this
>>> before! Why in the hell are they making a video, that they don't know
>>> how to make or edit, of something they have no clue about, and then
>>> putting it on YouTube.
>>
>>
>> After all the other cons mentioned, of the different TV shows, plus
>> the bad YouTube folks, they probably don't have/use the best
>> woodworkers tape measure.
>>
>> Sonny
>>
>
>
> ROTFLMAO... Yeah, we wen of on a tangent,,,,,,again.

On Usenet, one thing leads to another,,,,always.
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/22/2019 10:58 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/22/2019 9:06 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 5/21/2019 1:58 PM, Jerry Osage wrote:
>>> On Tue, 21 May 2019 09:03:58 -0400, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I about completely
>>>> stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
>>>> Youtube. I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
>>>> Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.
>>>>
>>> Check out mtmwood on Youtube. He doesn't do many videos now, however, he
>>> went from a garage operation to a production plant doing end grain
>>> cutting
>>> boards. I especially like this one.
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVd-jxTmq4g
>>
>> Yes, I believe I watched that one before. Very nice cutting board.
>> Not my style of shop though, too clean, too, neat, too many Festering
>> tools. (Through that in for Leon:-))
>
> Thank you Jack. LOL. I am familiar with this guy too. I never noticed
> the Festool till now though. I was more impressed with his large
> stationary equipment.

What I noticed was he has a nice TS with a sliding table, yet used his
bandsaw to cut up his blocks for the cutting board. Seemed wrong to me.

>> Here's my type of woodwork show. Engels Coach Shop. This guy is a pro,
>> and knows how to do stuff. He builds and restores old wagons,
>> coaches, wheels and all that. Not stuff many do, but wow, he does it
>> all, and does good video's, showing exactly how it's done. Although
>> not something many would ever do, it is enjoyable for wood workers to
>> watch. Here are a few I grabbed at random, but he has a lot of them:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJ5RemOVyaw
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0xj7OujbwU
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9UPihp04xY
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/23/2019 1:09 AM, Bill wrote:

> I watched some snooker matches (I think the season is coming to an end).
> Most matches with Ronny O'Sullivan (sp?) are good. I also can appreciate
> a good one-pocket match. I find watching either of those games to be
> relaxing. People have become so good at 8-ball and 9-ball that I don't
> find it that entertaining to watch. OTOH, when I was playing a bit, I
> liked to play 9 ball. I don't think I've ever caught a match "live" on
> YouTube, but usually, the videos come out on YouTube within a couple of
> hours.

If you are into one pocket, the best ever is a recent match between Tony
Chohan and Dennis Orcolo. It was streamed by POV pool and is in 3
parts. Race to 30 for $50k. These are two of the best one pocket
players on earth, Tony probably number one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckIkWGz3RAQ

Normally I consider one pocket one impossible bank, squeezed between 20
safety's. This match is a glaring exception. Tony makes a ton of
incredible shots, unmatched in one pocket history. POV pool compiled a
video of them and you can see them here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94TFGdJEMy0

These are not trick shots either, he's playing for 50k. Chohan is a one
pocket monster.

> I just looked up "X1 TV box". It reminds me of my Roku device. Any
> advantages to it? Looks like I can get one for $30 on Amazon. To humor
> you, I should mention that our dog has "eaten" 3 Roku remote controls
> (see if your dog likes them!) ; ) We now try to remember to pick up the
> remote controls up every time we leave the room.

That's what I have, it's a Comcast/Xfinity cable box/recorder. Nothing
at all like Roku. It is awesome though. You can record on mutiple boxes
with it, has voice so I can just speak commands to it, like "POV pool on
youtube" and it will pop it up, or "forward 3 minutes, 30 seconds" and
skip right past commercials, and so on.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/23/2019 11:52 AM, Leon wrote:

> The beauty to watching video's over and over is that you can catch parts
> you missed when you doze off. ;~)

I record How the Universe Works, and Spaces Deepest Secrets. The shows
are pretty much garbage and boring, but they put me to sleep within 5
minutes. First, the videos are mostly fake, so you don't need to watch
them (videos of the big bang 14 million years ago, black holes which you
can't see, even IF they exist, and so on) This means you can just close
your eyes, and be put to sleep. I wake up in the middle of the night,
fast forward from the beginning 5 minutes (where I last fell asleep) and
wham, in minutes I'm back in dream land, and no drugs needed. One show
lasts at least a week before I delete it for a new one:-)
--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/24/2019 12:24 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/24/2019 7:11 AM, Jack wrote:
>> On 5/23/2019 11:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> The beauty to watching video's over and over is that you can catch parts
>>> you missed when you doze off. ;~)
>>
>> I record How the Universe Works, and Spaces Deepest Secrets. The shows
>> are pretty much garbage and boring, but they put me to sleep within 5
>> minutes. First, the videos are mostly fake, so you don't need to watch
>> them (videos of the big bang 14 million years ago, black holes which
>> you can't see, even IF they exist, and so on) This means you can just
>> close your eyes, and be put to sleep. I wake up in the middle of the
>> night, fast forward from the beginning 5 minutes (where I last fell
>> asleep) and wham, in minutes I'm back in dream land, and no drugs
>> needed. One show lasts at least a week before I delete it for a new
>> one:-)
>
> You know there is a growing number of people, soon to be a majority of
> people, that believe that the big bang was actually filmed as it
> happened. A lot of these people are government leaders and those that
> they have promised to take care of, to get their votes.

Yep, lots of complete morons around.
>
> I was reading NextDoor, a local neighborhood information source. A
> woman took several pictures of "earth worms" and asked the neighbors if
> these were snakes. This is where we are headed.

I think we are there, not "headed". I watched a couple of "Louder with
Clouder" or whatever he calls his show on youtube and he goes to college
campuses and interviews anyone that will talk to him. Besides the
totally asinine views and stupidity of these left wing morons, what
stuck me even more was the totally slovenly appearance of all of them.
These kids look like losers to the nth degree, with bad attitudes, bad
personal hygiene, lack of respect for themselves and the world. A while
back there was a slogan, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste". Well,
seems our educational system combined with lousy parenting has brought
an incredible percent of our population to it's knees.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/24/2019 1:09 PM, Bill wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>
>> If you are into one pocket, the best ever is a recent match between
>> Tony Chohan and Dennis Orcolo. It was streamed by POV pool and is in
>> 3 parts. Race to 30 for $50k. These are two of the best one pocket
>> players on earth, Tony probably number one.
>
>
> I got through the "first day". It's race to 40, not 30--ha.

I think I said 30, but, it is some awesome one pocket. I have some links
to amazing 14-1 that any pool enthusiast should love, and it is fast
paced. I hate slow pool which is one gripe I have about one-pocket.
Tony is not slow I'm sure you noticed.

In you, or someone else wants to watch some good, fast paced straight
pool, check out these:
John Schmidt - 434 ball run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf9hRHdA0A8
Josh Filler - 285 ball run: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZo5doH0F2o

I'm going
> to have to "pace" myself! ; ) Chohan is pretty intimidating, for a
> pool player, a big guy.

Yes, he was out of the loop for a bunch of years, spent some time in the
Big House, for what I don't know, probably drugs or beating someone to a
pulp. He looks like you don't want to piss him off:-)

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

On 5/21/2019 9:38 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 5/20/2019 1:08 PM, Jack wrote:

>> True dat. But, they ain't micrometers under a foot either, so 1/32"
>> marks in the first foot doesn't turn them into micrometers either, so
>> while the marks aren't needed in over a foot measurements, they're
>> also not needed under a foot measurements.
>>
>
> Not for you but what about others?

I only give MY opinions based on MY 60 years experience in woodworking.
Are you suggesting I give someone else's opinion?

Keep in mind I didn't say no tape on earth should ever have 1/32"
markings only in the first foot, only that MY opinion is those markings
are not needed (by me, nor has any one said they are) and that it is
HARD to find a short tape w/o those damned things. Also, why aren't they
there for over a foot, or at all on tapes over 25'?

Tape measures are used for many
> things aside from woodwork. Surely you recognize that others have
> different needs than you.

True enough, but always used in woodwork, which btw, is the focus of
this group. People needing finer than half way between 1/16", which is
easy for any woodworker to measure accurately enough for wood work, use
other means. For example, a machinist uses dial indicators, calibers
and so on. Woodworkers mostly use tapes.

If a woodworker truly needs fine measurements less than halfway between
1/16" they should rely on machinist measuring tools, rather than using a
magnifying glass to mark between 1/32" marks, and not bother ME with
that nonsense.

Again, this is MY opinion, not someone else's.

Surely you recognize that, don't you.

--
Jack
I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.

On 5/25/2019 11:29 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Saturday, May 25, 2019 at 5:01:25 AM UTC-7, Jack wrote:
>> On 5/24/2019 12:24 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 5/24/2019 7:11 AM, Jack wrote:
>>>> On 5/23/2019 11:52 AM, Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The beauty to watching video's over and over is that you can catch parts
>>>>> you missed when you doze off. ;~)
>>>>
>>>> I record How the Universe Works, and Spaces Deepest Secrets. The shows
>>>> are pretty much garbage and boring, but they put me to sleep within 5
>>>> minutes. First, the videos are mostly fake, so you don't need to watch
>>>> them (videos of the big bang 14 million years ago, black holes which
>>>> you can't see, even IF they exist, and so on) This means you can just
>>>> close your eyes, and be put to sleep. I wake up in the middle of the
>>>> night, fast forward from the beginning 5 minutes (where I last fell
>>>> asleep) and wham, in minutes I'm back in dream land, and no drugs
>>>> needed. One show lasts at least a week before I delete it for a new
>>>> one:-)
>>>
>>> You know there is a growing number of people, soon to be a majority of
>>> people, that believe that the big bang was actually filmed as it
>>> happened. A lot of these people are government leaders and those that
>>> they have promised to take care of, to get their votes.
>>
>> Yep, lots of complete morons around.
>>>
>>> I was reading NextDoor, a local neighborhood information source. A
>>> woman took several pictures of "earth worms" and asked the neighbors if
>>> these were snakes. This is where we are headed.
>>
>> I think we are there, not "headed". I watched a couple of "Louder with
>> Clouder" or whatever he calls his show on youtube and he goes to college
>> campuses and interviews anyone that will talk to him. Besides the
>> totally asinine views and stupidity of these left wing morons, what
>> stuck me even more was the totally slovenly appearance of all of them.
>> These kids look like losers to the nth degree, with bad attitudes, bad
>> personal hygiene, lack of respect for themselves and the world. A while
>> back there was a slogan, "the mind is a terrible thing to waste". Well,
>> seems our educational system combined with lousy parenting has brought
>> an incredible percent of our population to it's knees.
>>
>
> Do you mean Louder With Crowder? If so...

I reckon that's him.

>
> I'm not picking sides, but I don't think it's fair to judge any particular
> segment of society based on what you see on that show. I didn't know who
> he was or what his show was about, so I looked him up:
>
> "Steven Blake Crowder is a Canadian-American conservative political
> commentator, actor, and comedian. He is the host of Louder with Crowder,
> a late-night style comedic television show covering news, pop culture,
> and politics."
>
> My guess, if I take "conservative political commentator" and combine it
> with "actor/comedian", is that there just might be a sight slant to his choice
> of "guests" for his show. (Yes, I did watch a few minutes of a few shows.)

Yes, I agree but, the two shows I watched were outside on a college
campuses. He could choose who he interviewed, but could NOT choose the
crowd of students milling about. He actually couldn't even choose who
he interviewed, he asked anyone that would talk to him to do so. That is
lots different than the interviews regular TV types that do the man on
the street type stuff where you see 6 interviews and all of them are
ridiculous. The answers they get that they don't like, or don't fit
their agenda hit the cutting room floor. He could just be really good at
it, but I don't think so, I think he just flies with whatever he gets.

> I know lots of recent college students, including 2 daughters with 3 Masters
> degrees between them, a son's girlfriend who just got her PhD, and many of
> their friends. Some of them are certainly more left leaning than right, but
> there's not a "slovenly looking asinine loser" in the group.

That's a small group in relation to the millions and millions of college
students. Anyway, I don't recall what was going on at the schools. He
set up a table and tried to get anyone he could to talk to him. It
could have been an anti-American rally for all I know.

> Crowder (and others) will show his viewers who he wants them to see on the
> hope that certain general opinions will be formed. I'll bet that if he
> interviewed some of the college students that I know, they wouldn't make
> the...I mean...*his* cut. They just don't fit the stereotype he is trying
> to build.

That's true enough I reckon. I don't watch him, just parts of a couple
shows. He is not my style, but that's what I got out of what I saw. Your
comment on a woman asking if earth worms were snakes reminded me of the
morons I've seen on campuses, and particularly college professors I've
seen on TV. I've seen students and professors in the news protesting
conservative speakers, and they look like the same losers.

When I went to college, politics was not an issue, and you got in based
on academics, not race, sex, sexual habits or whatever they do today.
Probably could get in if mommy donated a wing or two to the school.

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

Jack <[email protected]> wrote:

> Both of these have those dammed useless 1/32" markings in the first
> foot. I hated those when I was young and could actually see them
> clearly. I have zero problems making accurate marks between 1/16"
> lines. I guess they figure if you measure more than a foot, you don't
> need 1/32" accuracy.

+1

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<https://cdn-tp3.mozu.com/24645-37138/cms/37138/files/0e2c1b23-116d-44eb-9242-a82bd3b0ae94>

<https://www.amazon.com/Komelon-SM5412-Gripper-Acrylic-Measuring/dp/B008AGWNK6/>
<https://www.lowes.com/pd/Komelon-Self-Lock-Evolution-12-ft-Auto-Lock-Tape-Measure/4177183>

<https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lufkin-3-4-in-x-12-ft-Quikread-Power-Return-Tape-Measure-PQR1312N/302574660>

Jack wrote:

> If you are into one pocket, the best ever is a recent match
> between Tony Chohan and Dennis Orcolo.  It was streamed by POV
> pool and is in 3 parts.  Race to 30 for $50k. These are two of
> the best one pocket players on earth, Tony probably number one.


I got through the "first day". It's race to 40, not 30--ha. I'm
going to have to "pace" myself! ; ) Chohan is pretty
intimidating, for a pool player, a big guy.

Jack <[email protected]> writes:
>On 5/20/2019 2:15 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>
>I can markup four boards of
>> the same length that way. There is no way I could do as well with a tape
>> measure, except for the first one.
>
>Yes, the first one you likely will use a tape.

Not necessarily. I have 6", 1', 2' and 4' graduated straight
edges (starretts, mainly :-). They work quite well for the vast
majority of woodworking purposes.

> No getting around using
>a tape in woodwork,

I manage just fine with good straight edges. The Incra rules are good
if you can't find used Starrett gear at a reasonable price.

>and I personally don't need, like or want those
>dammed 1/32" marks.

Of the four I have (various stanley 25 footers, from 10 to 30 years old), none are graduated
in 32nds, even in the first foot.

>
>I often reach for one of my steel squares--except when I head out shopping.

I've not seen a steel square with graduations I'd trust, myself; excepting
the Starretts.


>> My dad liked to keep (in the car) one of those old-fashioned 12' (?)
>> fold-up rules that I think were sometimes used for rough lumber. I
>> suggested that it might not be accurate, but he disagreed. Of course, he
>> didn't often make furniture, and I never saw him use one in the house.
>> Still I think that he liked it much the way you like your tape measure!
>

I have a few stanley boxwood folding rules and calipers, and they are quite
accurately graduated, all things considered.

On 5/22/2019 12:03 PM, Spalted Walt wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 5/21/2019 8:03 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 5/21/2019 2:22 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, that's what I do. I'm gunna try the dial calipers next time
>>>>> though.  Been watching a lot of machinist videos on YouTube:-).
>>>>
>>>> Try Hobby-Machinist.com
>>>> I've been thinking about whether I might be able to make some plane
>>>> parts. I don't own a lathe or a mill though, so far. But I am keeping my
>>>> eyes open for a "deal" while I learn.
>>>
>>> That's a web page.  I like watching videos on Youtube on my big screen
>>> TV's (Comcast here has a built in YouTube app) I about completely
>>> stopped watching anything on regular TV, and 99% of what I watch is on
>>> Youtube.  I like ABOM79 and David Richards Old Steam Powered Machine
>>> Shop, but watch and subscribe to a few others machinist shows as well.
>>
>> I put a couple of miles on the tread mill almost every day, You Tube on
>> a 32" TV "right in front" of the tread mill gets me through the drudgery.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Everything I'm interested in can be found on youtube, and about NOTHING
>>> I'm interested in can be found on regular TV. Even if regular tv has
>>> something, say woodworking, it sucks, and sucks big time.  Thinking of
>>> Lamo Scott Phillips show American Woodshop, the Woodsmith shop and so
>>> on. Lots of bad woodworking stuff on youtube too, but lots of good stuff
>>> as well.
>>
>> While piling on, Scott Phillips is probably the worst. This guy built,
>> on TV, what promised to be a great shop, several years ago. It was
>> immediately a pig sty.
>>
>> Then there was the Johnson guy that had some kind of a, I cut wood show,
>> that was determined to convince every one that a Sliding Miter saw was
>> actually a RAS. Idiot!
>>
>> I do not mind Woodsmith except that it is tooooooooooooo
>> freakingggggggggggg slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
>>
>> And now there is a girl that has a Mansion Restoration Show. Jeez,
>> where do I start.
>> Her dad is on the show and makes unnecessary commentary.
>> She wants to sound like an expert in her field but sadly is just one of
>> those "dreamer designers".
>> Several clips show her doing what a remodeled does, work with their hands.
>>
>> She paints large flat panels,against the grain with a small paint brush.
>> She removes wall fixtures set screws with a screwdriver made for
>> tightening screws in a pair of glasses frames.
>> She uses her Sliding miter saw like A RAS. She might be related to the
>> Johnson guy mentioned above.
>> She pulls the blade through the cut instead of pushing it.
>>
>> Oh! I'll will never forget Brad Staggs Master Workshop! Or what ever
>> he called his show.
>> This idiot dedicated a portion of his show to showing how to properly
>> use a dodo blade on a TS.
>> Imagine the look on his face while cutting a dado with out removing the
>> blade guard. He had that look of, hummmmm why is the board not passing
>> past the blades??? IDIOT!
>>
>> And they put this stuff on TV!
>>
>> David Marks was pretty good, and naturally it is gone today.
>
> ...this got me to thinking
>
> Does anyone actually get "Rough Cut with Fine Woodworking" (or is it "Classic Woodworking"?) on their local PBS affiliate?
> I don't think I've seen anybody comment on the new show.
> "The show, which airs on more than 200 stations" according to this:
> <https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/news/woodworking-industry-news/star-carpenter-tommy-mac-countersued-former-tv-station>
>
> A quick Google of "Rough Cut with Fine Woodworking" resulted w/this:
> <https://nhpbs.org/schedule/series.aspx?progName=Rough+Cut+with+Fine+Woodworking>
> which links to:
> <https://www.finewoodworking.com/classic-woodworking>
>
> So it appears it is/was on in some areas...
>

It's now showing on Lakeshore Public Television (I think it is) down in
Indiana just outside Chicago. As a result I get it on DishTV.
Strangest thing though. They started with it as soon as it came out but
I could never watch it as they had a problem or a required upgrade to
their transmission tower and though they apparently had the money to do
it, they fell asleep at the switch and wound up at the tail end of a
long line of customers for ALL of the antenna service companies
permitted by the FCC to do the work. They came back on line a month or
so ago and I've seen several episodes of the show and have a few more
recorded. Pretty decent show IMO. He's no Tommy Mac, but that ain't
necessarily a bad thing.

On Fri, 17 May 2019 19:12:16 -0700 (PDT), Michael
<[email protected]> wrote:

>My old tape measure is just about done. I thought I'd get a Milwaukee since I like things they make, but the reviews are not that good. What is the best 16-foot tape measure?
>
>Thanks.

I've had good luck with Stanley FatMax. I don't know how durable they
are--I tend to lose them long before they're worn out--but they do
everything I want them to do. Only real downside is that to get the
standout they achieve they've got a lot of dish in the tape.

If you want one that's flat, FastCap has several options, including
some that are made so you can write on them like a "story pole".

Spalted Walt <[email protected]> writes:
>Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> David Marks was pretty good, and naturally it is gone today.
>
>...this got me to thinking
>
>Does anyone actually get "Rough Cut with Fine Woodworking" (or is it "Classic Woodworking"?) on their local PBS affiliate?
>I don't think I've seen anybody comment on the new show.
>"The show, which airs on more than 200 stations" according to this:
><https://www.woodworkingnetwork.com/news/woodworking-industry-news/star-carpenter-tommy-mac-countersued-former-tv-station>
>
>A quick Google of "Rough Cut with Fine Woodworking" resulted w/this:
><https://nhpbs.org/schedule/series.aspx?progName=Rough+Cut+with+Fine+Woodworking>
> which links to:
><https://www.finewoodworking.com/classic-woodworking>
>
>So it appears it is/was on in some areas...

I like it a lot.

I'm planning on making a set of the craftsman dining chairs (ep. 109) when I retire.

Jack wrote:
> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Jack wrote:
>>    I guess they figure if you measure more
>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>
>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>> circumstances.
>
> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length?  Are you saying
> you don't use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot
> because there are no 1/32" markings?
>
> In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those
> 1/32" measures in the first foot, they just get in the way.
> Regardless of length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way
> between two 1/16" lines. My 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so
> I guess they,(the morons making tapes) think accuracy is only
> important in the first foot on short tapes.  Truth is, 1/32"
> lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance both under and over
> a foot measurements.


I had my H.F. tape measure out with me trimming hedges yesterday,
and thought of you folks and this thread. I wasn't using 32nds,
striving for a delta of 1" on either side of the porch. It's not
as easy as it sounds, the tape measure played a critical role in
my ultimate success--but what I really needed was a "transit"! I
guess in some sense I made one--if you are allowed to count
measuring off of the base of a window frame. It's not easy to
avoid "cosine error" while trying not laughing about it...

On 5/19/2019 2:32 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2019 11:35:29 -0500, Unquestionably Confused
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 5/19/2019 9:43 AM, Jack wrote:
>>> On 5/19/2019 1:31 AM, Bill wrote:
>>>> Jack wrote:
>>>>    I guess they figure if you measure more
>>>>> than a foot, you don't need 1/32" accuracy.
>>>
>>>> I would rather "copy" a length than use a tape measure under those
>>>> circumstances.
>>>
>>> I don't know what you mean by "copy" a length?  Are you saying you don't
>>> use a tape if you need 1/32" accuracy over a foot because there are no
>>> 1/32" markings?
>>>
>>> In over 60 years of woodworking I have not found a need for those 1/32"
>>> measures in the first foot, they just get in the way.  Regardless of
>>> length, 6" or 20', I can put a mark half way between two 1/16" lines. My
>>> 30' tapes don't have 1/32" marks, so I guess they,(the morons making
>>> tapes) think accuracy is only important in the first foot on short
>>> tapes.  Truth is, 1/32" lines are mostly just an unnecessary nuisance
>>> both under and over a foot measurements.
>>
>> FWIW and, yes, I know there are other ways to skin this cat; how about
>> measuring a sheet of 1/2" or 3/4" plywood for setting a dado? Rarely is
>> plywood exactly what it is sold as. It can vary by a 16th or 32nd.
>
> Or somewhere in between. For that I find a micrometer is more
> efficacious than a tape measure. But if the fit really matters trial
> cuts and adjustment are time consuming but the "right" way to do it.

Sneaking up on the fit is a band aid fix for improper measuring up to
that point. I certainly sneak up on fit in many cases but it is usually
when considering inconsistent thicknesses on sheet goods used in
multiple layers.