Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part, I
won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know about
fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all use/suggest? I'm
almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4') I have
and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
Ed
[email protected] wrote:
> On Oct 11, 6:51 pm, "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part, I
>> won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know about
>> fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all use/suggest? I'm
>> almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4') I have
>> and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
>>
>> Ed
>
> I have an unheated shop and I have both 4' and 8' 2-tube lights. Even
> when it's real cold, they light. At first they aren't real bright,
> but as they warm up, they are ok.
When I was a kid, our garage was heated but only when we were working on
something. Our winters get cold, often below zero and I never recall a
time any of the fluorescent lights not lighting up due to the cold.
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
"EXT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Hey Ed:
>>
>> I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube,
>> 4 foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one
>> night and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14
>> degrees F). These are $8 lights.
>
> Sorry Mike, but 0 degrees Celsius is not 14 degrees F. -- it is 32 degrees
> F. the freezing/thawing point of water -- a lot warmer than 14 degrees.
Damn it! You're right and this is the second time I've screwed this up.
Sorry - my bad - the rating is -10 degrees C.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Oct 11, 6:51=A0pm, "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). =A0For the most par=
t, I
> won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. =A0I know =
about
> fluorescents with cold start ballasts. =A0What else do y'all use/suggest?=
=A0I'm
> almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4') I hav=
e
> and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
>
> Ed
Look for T8 4' fixtures. Two tubes per fixture. Gobs of light, cold
start, low cost to buy, cheap to run.
Get as many as you need. $ 100.00 will do your shop.
Add some halogens fixtures on a separate switch. This way you don't run them
when you have adequate light with natural light or the fluorescents, or when
you don't want any added heat in summer. In winter they can light the room
plus add a bit of heat. Bouncing the harsh light off a white ceiling
probably would be best.
Don't use clip on lighting, too easy to dislodge and not enough general
illumination.
"Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
> I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
> about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
> use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
> fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
>
> Ed
>
"Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Yeah, I'd second this idea.
>>
>> I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings so
>> I attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls. I
>> think I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings were
>> painted white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about 40F
>> and took it to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to warm
>> up, but I never had any issues.
>
> Thanks guys. My shop is pretty small at 16x12 (it's under my back deck).
> It is just framing and the exterior plywood sheathing with minimal outside
> light getting in. I only have a pair of four foot 2-tube fixtures in
> there now. Without a doubt, I need more. I'll probably do another pair
> of 2 tube fixtures and set up some spot lighting. I seem to be needing
> more light these days.
>
> Ed
Totally OT here Ed but have you considered insulating the exterior walls?
Add a very small electric heater (the oil filled ones are good for
eliminating the exposed coil to the hazards of sawdust) and you have
effectively extended your use by a season or so (thinkiing the pick-up of
early spring and later fall here). JAT
> Hey Ed:
>
> I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube,
> 4 foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one
> night and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14
> degrees F). These are $8 lights.
Sorry Mike, but 0 degrees Celsius is not 14 degrees F. -- it is 32 degrees
F. the freezing/thawing point of water -- a lot warmer than 14 degrees.
The problem with fluorescent ligts is not the ballasts but the tubes.
When they fet cold, the chemical critters in the tube do not get agitated
enough and as a result they do not produce the rated light.
The only solution I have seen is to heat the tubes with the jacket heaters.
"EXT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>> Hey Ed:
>>
>> I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube,
>> 4 foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one
>> night and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14
>> degrees F). These are $8 lights.
>
> Sorry Mike, but 0 degrees Celsius is not 14 degrees F. -- it is 32 degrees
> F. the freezing/thawing point of water -- a lot warmer than 14 degrees.
In article <[email protected]>,
Ed Edelenbos <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most
> part, I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though.
> I know about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
> use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
> fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the
> tools.
How long is a piece of string?
You don't say how big your shop is, whether there is daylight through
windows or other apertures, what the decor is, how good your eyesight
is....
I have a garage which is about 16' x 8'. It is painted white inside and is
lit with four single 5' fluorescents. I use a clip on light, with a 60W
spot bulb, I can move about to give extra light where needed. According to
my optician I have a slight milkiness which will develop into cataracts
when I am older (I am 61) He says I may have noticed I now need a stronger
light than I used to for fine work - yes he's right and sometimes I wish I
had a bit more in some parts of my garage workshop.
The answer to your question is:
"Can you see adequately to do what you want to do?"
If not, add more light. If you can then you're OK as you are.
--
Stuart Winsor
For Barn dances and folk evenings in the Coventry and Warwickshire area
See: http://www.barndance.org.uk
"Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yeah, I'd second this idea.
>
> I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings so I
> attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls. I
> think I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings were
> painted white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about 40F
> and took it to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to warm
> up, but I never had any issues.
Thanks guys. My shop is pretty small at 16x12 (it's under my back deck).
It is just framing and the exterior plywood sheathing with minimal outside
light getting in. I only have a pair of four foot 2-tube fixtures in there
now. Without a doubt, I need more. I'll probably do another pair of 2 tube
fixtures and set up some spot lighting. I seem to be needing more light
these days.
Ed
"krw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, chizzard52
> @yahoo.com says...
>>
>> "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> >
>> > "Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> > news:[email protected]...
>> >> Yeah, I'd second this idea.
>> >>
>> >> I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings
>> >> so
>> >> I attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls.
>> >> I
>> >> think I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings
>> >> were
>> >> painted white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about
>> >> 40F
>> >> and took it to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to
>> >> warm
>> >> up, but I never had any issues.
>> >
>> > Thanks guys. My shop is pretty small at 16x12 (it's under my back
>> > deck).
>> > It is just framing and the exterior plywood sheathing with minimal
>> > outside
>> > light getting in. I only have a pair of four foot 2-tube fixtures in
>> > there now. Without a doubt, I need more. I'll probably do another
>> > pair
>> > of 2 tube fixtures and set up some spot lighting. I seem to be needing
>> > more light these days.
>> >
>> > Ed
>>
>>
>> Totally OT here Ed but have you considered insulating the exterior walls?
>> Add a very small electric heater (the oil filled ones are good for
>> eliminating the exposed coil to the hazards of sawdust) and you have
>> effectively extended your use by a season or so (thinkiing the pick-up
>> of
>> early spring and later fall here). JAT
>
> ...and a window? Light and fresh air is good.
>
> --
> Keith
I appreciate the comments... though the short story of it is, it's a lost
cause trying to heat this space until I put up a better ceiling. I do have
a few windows and the doors even have large glass panels but it isn't enough
light for working, even when the light is just right.
Ed
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jack Stein wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Oct 11, 6:51 pm, "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most
>>>> part, I
>>>> won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
>>>> about
>>>> fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all use/suggest?
>>>> I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4')
>>>> I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
>>>>
>>>> Ed
>>>
>>> I have an unheated shop and I have both 4' and 8' 2-tube lights. Even
>>> when it's real cold, they light. At first they aren't real bright,
>>> but as they warm up, they are ok.
>>
>> When I was a kid, our garage was heated but only when we were working on
>> something. Our winters get cold, often below zero and I never recall a
>> time any of the fluorescent lights not lighting up due to the cold.
>>
>>
>
> As the lights and starters age, the startup gets worse. We used
> fluorescent bulbs in the barn, as they aged, it eventually got to the
> point
> that one had to rub the bulbs to get them to start up.
>
> --
Oh the places one could go with a straight line like that. (grin)
Ed
On Oct 11, 6:51=A0pm, "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). =A0For the most par=
t, I
> won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. =A0I know =
about
> fluorescents with cold start ballasts. =A0What else do y'all use/suggest?=
=A0I'm
> almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4') I hav=
e
> and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
>
> Ed
I have an unheated shop and I have both 4' and 8' 2-tube lights. Even
when it's real cold, they light. At first they aren't real bright,
but as they warm up, they are ok.
Dave
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ed Edelenbos wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
> ... snip
>>> As the lights and starters age, the startup gets worse. We used
>>> fluorescent bulbs in the barn, as they aged, it eventually got to the
>>> point
>>> that one had to rub the bulbs to get them to start up.
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> Oh the places one could go with a straight line like that. (grin)
>>
>> Ed
>
> Yeah, I briefly thought about that before I hit "send", but then
> remembered that this was going to a group of professionals who would never
> abuse succinct, clear descriptions. ;-)
Well... I'm not sure which is worse, my preference for wafting warm air at
it with a heat gun, or your suggestion.
Ed Edelenbos wrote:
>
>
> "Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
... snip
>> As the lights and starters age, the startup gets worse. We used
>> fluorescent bulbs in the barn, as they aged, it eventually got to the
>> point
>> that one had to rub the bulbs to get them to start up.
>>
>> --
>
> Oh the places one could go with a straight line like that. (grin)
>
> Ed
Yeah, I briefly thought about that before I hit "send", but then
remembered that this was going to a group of professionals who would never
abuse succinct, clear descriptions. ;-)
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Add some halogens fixtures on a separate switch. This way you don't run them
> when you have adequate light with natural light or the fluorescents, or when
> you don't want any added heat in summer. In winter they can light the room
> plus add a bit of heat. Bouncing the harsh light off a white ceiling
> probably would be best.
Put the halogens near the fluorescents. If light is needed in cold
weather, halogens will heat the fluorescents. After an appropriate
time, turn fluorescents on and halogens off.
> Don't use clip on lighting, too easy to dislodge and not enough general
> illumination.
I bought a wall mounted halogen spot from HF for over the bench when
additional light is needed. It works quite well. Here is a two
light model:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=
94035
<snipped bottom quotes>
--
Keith
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
> > I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
> > about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
> > use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
> > fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
> >
>
> Hey Ed:
>
> I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube, 4
> foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one night
> and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14 degrees F).
0C = 32F
> These are $8 lights. For those of us that don't really need 0 degree start
> up, these things work every bit as good as much more expensive fixtures.
> And... they only cost $8 apiece.
>
> So - do yourself a favor. Take the shield off one of your lights and look
> at the rating of the ballast. You may find that you have a much better
> rating than you first thought. You may not have to change anything.
>
> If that's not the case - buy some of those cheap HD fixtures. I've put them
> in my garage and I'm in upstate NY. Never had one start slowly since I put
> them in.
I had an expensive ceiling light from the BORG that would start dim
and not brighten for a half hour, *inside*, in the winter.
Fluorescents and cold are a crap shoot. A small change to the
ballast and it won't start. A change of manufacturers isn't often
small. ;-)
--
Keith
In article <[email protected]>, chizzard52
@yahoo.com says...
>
> "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >> Yeah, I'd second this idea.
> >>
> >> I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings so
> >> I attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls. I
> >> think I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings were
> >> painted white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about 40F
> >> and took it to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to warm
> >> up, but I never had any issues.
> >
> > Thanks guys. My shop is pretty small at 16x12 (it's under my back deck).
> > It is just framing and the exterior plywood sheathing with minimal outside
> > light getting in. I only have a pair of four foot 2-tube fixtures in
> > there now. Without a doubt, I need more. I'll probably do another pair
> > of 2 tube fixtures and set up some spot lighting. I seem to be needing
> > more light these days.
> >
> > Ed
>
>
> Totally OT here Ed but have you considered insulating the exterior walls?
> Add a very small electric heater (the oil filled ones are good for
> eliminating the exposed coil to the hazards of sawdust) and you have
> effectively extended your use by a season or so (thinkiing the pick-up of
> early spring and later fall here). JAT
...and a window? Light and fresh air is good.
--
Keith
Mike Marlow wrote:
> I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube, 4
> foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one night
> and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14 degrees F).
> These are $8 lights. For those of us that don't really need 0 degree start
> up, these things work every bit as good as much more expensive fixtures.
> And... they only cost $8 apiece.
I needed a ballast for one of my shop lights last year and bought one at
home depot for about twice or more as much as that light you mention. I
was going to buy the whole light, take out the ballast and put the light
out for rubbish. I was too damn lazy to do all that, so I spent the
extra money. I'm still kicking myself for that one, cheap as I am...
Amazing they sell whole light fixture with ballast for far less than
just the ballast...
--
Jack
http://jbstein.com
Yeah, I'd second this idea.
I wired outlets on my ceiling for my last shop. I had 8' 1" ceilings so I
attached those $8 fixtures at a 45 to the ceiling along the walls. I think
I had 10 fixtures for a 24x18 space. The walls and ceilings were painted
white. There was plenty of light. I kept the shop at about 40F and took it
to 60F when I was there. The lights took a few mins to warm up, but I never
had any issues.
"Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
> I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
> about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
> use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
> fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
>
Hey Ed:
I've posted here about a little known secret. Home Depot sells a 2 tube, 4
foot fixture as a simple shop light. I took one of these apart one night
and found that the ballast was rated at 0 degrees Celsius. (14 degrees F).
These are $8 lights. For those of us that don't really need 0 degree start
up, these things work every bit as good as much more expensive fixtures.
And... they only cost $8 apiece.
So - do yourself a favor. Take the shield off one of your lights and look
at the rating of the ballast. You may find that you have a much better
rating than you first thought. You may not have to change anything.
If that's not the case - buy some of those cheap HD fixtures. I've put them
in my garage and I'm in upstate NY. Never had one start slowly since I put
them in.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Go to ww.watlow.com.
They make a transparent, thin film wrap for fluorescwnt tubes.
The company I work for builds cold roms and some customers specify them
instead of instead of incandescent bulbs.
We install and wire the tube covers as always on but with a B-10 type tstst
in series to control the heaters at around 45 Farenheit.
This works fairly well.
.
"Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
> I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
> about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
> use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
> fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
>
> Ed
>
"Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most part,
> I won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
> about fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all
> use/suggest? I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube
> fluorescents (4') I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
Halogens. Set one close to the bench top too to keep the sandwich warm or to
fry eggs.
Jack Stein wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Oct 11, 6:51 pm, "Ed Edelenbos" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Ok, I have an unheated shop (miniscule though it is). For the most
>>> part, I
>>> won't be doing stuff when it is below around 40 or so, though. I know
>>> about
>>> fluorescents with cold start ballasts. What else do y'all use/suggest?
>>> I'm almost thinking about keeping the standard 2-tube fluorescents (4')
>>> I have and adding some clip-on lighting above the tools.
>>>
>>> Ed
>>
>> I have an unheated shop and I have both 4' and 8' 2-tube lights. Even
>> when it's real cold, they light. At first they aren't real bright,
>> but as they warm up, they are ok.
>
> When I was a kid, our garage was heated but only when we were working on
> something. Our winters get cold, often below zero and I never recall a
> time any of the fluorescent lights not lighting up due to the cold.
>
>
As the lights and starters age, the startup gets worse. We used
fluorescent bulbs in the barn, as they aged, it eventually got to the point
that one had to rub the bulbs to get them to start up.
--
If you're going to be dumb, you better be tough