Inline speed control for a grinder

On 2/19/2012 9:57 AM, Michael wrote:
> This writer talks about an "inline speed control" for a grinder.
>
> http://toolguyd.com/bench-grinder-craftsman-ryobi-porter-cable-recommendation/
>
> Does anyone know what he is talking about? What should I buy to set this up for my Craftsman grinder? I need lower speeds for my lathe tools.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike
A common in line speed control is one sold to slow down routers. You
plug into the speed control and dial the speed you want.


Keep in mind yo need a different type speed control for a universal
motor, one with brushes, than one that works with a capacitor start
motor, those found on larger more stationary equipment.

I did see this in Woodcraft. That price is a little high. Also, I'd like to have a grinder set up to do other things that need a higher speed (axe, mower blade, &c), and so a variable speed is probably better for me.

Thanks,

Mike

On Feb 19, 1:53=A0pm, tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:
> Stay away from dimmer switches. Motor variometers are much better choice.
> I don't know that your motor can handle variable speed.
>
> If you bought a 3450 grinder too bad. Way too fast. Even 1725-1750 in my
> mind is too fast.

I use a 1725 rpm grinder with a coarse white friable alox wheel.
Haven't burned a tool yet. I don't even use a water dip.

> If you have a grinder 3450, get a set of pillow blocks, and sheaves and
> step down the speed. Remount the stone on the new shaft Use a sheave
> like used on drill presses so you can adjust your speed.

Or use a smaller wheel. Halving the diameter has the same
effect as halving the speed.

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to buy that Porter Cable and be happy.

Mike

That's what I've been doing for the last few years. I can get my lathe tools pretty sharp on the regular grinder, but I've also made mistakes.

Mike

In article
<5b4d3919-a1a8-4ad9-aed8-d9edcfac258f@d15g2000yqg.googlegroups.com>,
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> Though I don't know for sure, I would think it is an inline switch to
> slow or speed up the grinder/grinding speed, similar to a dimmer
> switch for a light. If they (in the link) suspect the Craftsman is
> adaptable for one, you might ask at Sears what it is and/or if it's
> available.

Only "universal" motors can have speed control of the "dimmer-switch"
type. Those with a capacitor, the more usual motors fitted to grinders
etc, cannot be varied in speed. If a manufacturer has built a speed
control into a machine it is, of course, going to work fine.

The Craftsman quotes a 1/6th hp motor - forget it. The moment you start
trying to grind something it'll slow right down

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

In article <[email protected]>,
tiredofspam <nospam.nospam.com> wrote:

> If you have a grinder 3450, get a set of pillow blocks, and sheaves and
> step down the speed. Remount the stone on the new shaft Use a sheave
> like used on drill presses so you can adjust your speed.

I bought one of these:

http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awwsg-wetstone-grinder-prod809134/

It's impossible to overheat a tool on the slow running wetstone but rather
time consuming if you've anything more than a light "touch-up" to perform.

--
Stuart Winsor

Only plain text for emails
http://www.asciiribbon.org

On Wed, 22 Feb 2012 23:39:52 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Steve B wrote:
>
>>
>> If you can do it safely, and it works, that's good. I have just seen
>> a lot of jury rigging, and it ends up costing more than the right
>> tool, and then they have to go buy it, and the money's wasted.
>>
>
>Well - on that point I can agree somewhat. Those can be valuable lessons,
>and worth a lot more than what can be gained from asking questions in a
>forum, but I do agree that there is a cost to "experimenting". But then
>again - one cannot really learn without experiencing mistakes.

Dittoes. And think of all the synergistic and serendipitous learning
which can come from the simple making of mistakes. Thomas Edison is a
perfect example, a man who pushed his way through his mistakes and
failures, all the way to a brilliant <wink> success. He theorized,
experimented, and failed his way through to 1093 patents.


>It's just not possible to read your way to expertise.

No, expertise needs action/practice to mold its shape. But think of
the benefits to all if everyone read more. One truly can read their
way to competence.

--
Every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life are
based on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that
I must exert myself in order to give in the same measure as
I have received and am still receiving.
-- Albert Einstein

Those were just on sale last month too. I believe 80 some odd ..


On 2/21/2012 2:10 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Feb 19, 9:26 pm, Michael<[email protected]> wrote:
>> Thanks for the advice. I'm going to buy that Porter Cable and be happy.
>>
>> Mike
>
> If you haven't bought yet, consider one of these.
>
> http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080939/29437/8in-Slow-Speed-Grinder.aspx
>
> I have two, and love them both. First, while not variable, they are
> slow speed grinders. Second, and probably just as important, they
> come with white, friable wheels which are much superior to sharpening
> tool steel than the old gray wheels.
>
> They cut cooler, faster, and with less bounce on the wheel. These
> wheels are the best for your lathe tools and cost about $25 each for
> the 6" size, and about $35 for the 8" size. Surfacing them on
> occasion to keep them clean, mine have lasted for years.
>
> If you buy the 6" grinder, then buy the right wheels, you are at the
> same price as this grinder. The Woodcraft boys told me they have kept
> these around specifically for wood turners and because they have a
> great track record. I believe it; one of mine is 14 years old and
> still working fine!
>
> Robert

Though I don't know for sure, I would think it is an inline switch to
slow or speed up the grinder/grinding speed, similar to a dimmer
switch for a light. If they (in the link) suspect the Craftsman is
adaptable for one, you might ask at Sears what it is and/or if it's
available.

Sonny

Steve B wrote:

>
> If you can do it safely, and it works, that's good. I have just seen
> a lot of jury rigging, and it ends up costing more than the right
> tool, and then they have to go buy it, and the money's wasted.
>

Well - on that point I can agree somewhat. Those can be valuable lessons,
and worth a lot more than what can be gained from asking questions in a
forum, but I do agree that there is a cost to "experimenting". But then
again - one cannot really learn without experiencing mistakes. It's just
not possible to read your way to expertise.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Michael wrote:

> In response to your comment about using a non-variable speed grinder.
> I've been doing that for a few years. The larger tools are fine, but
> I've made mistakes with the smaller tools, and I think I would do a
> much better job with a lower moving wheel.
>

Yeah - the smaller tools offer more opportunity for oops moments. Let me
encourage you to work at that. You can easily master the knack, or the
touch for the smaller stuff. If you can do the bigger stuff, you can do the
smaller stuff - it only takes a little practice. Many of us touch up drill
bits on a 6" full speed grinder - you can do it if you work on developing
the touch. You just have to think "lighter". Kinda like a woman...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Tuesday, February 21, 2012 11:09:33 AM UTC-6, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Michael wrote:
> > That's what I've been doing for the last few years. I can get my
> > lathe tools pretty sharp on the regular grinder, but I've also made
> > mistakes.
> >
> > Mike
>
> In response to which comment? It pays to include the text to which you are
> replying so that others can understand the context of your comments.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]

In response to your comment about using a non-variable speed grinder. I've been doing that for a few years. The larger tools are fine, but I've made mistakes with the smaller tools, and I think I would do a much better job with a lower moving wheel.

Mike

Steve B wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Steve B wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> If you can do it safely, and it works, that's good. I have just
>>> seen a lot of jury rigging, and it ends up costing more than the
>>> right tool, and then they have to go buy it, and the money's wasted.
>>>
>>
>> Well - on that point I can agree somewhat. Those can be valuable
>> lessons, and worth a lot more than what can be gained from asking
>> questions in a forum, but I do agree that there is a cost to
>> "experimenting". But then again - one cannot really learn without
>> experiencing mistakes. It's just not possible to read your way to
>> expertise.> -Mike-
>
> Now, I totally disagree with your last sentence. America is full of
> experts, people who are educated beyond their capacity, and most of
> them are teachers or government employees.
>

I rest my case. Especially regarding the last class of person you reference
above.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Feb 22, 12:30=A0pm, Jack <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/19/2012 1:53 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
>
> > Stay away from dimmer switches. Motor variometers are much better choic=
e.
> > I don't know that your motor can handle variable speed.
>
> > If you bought a 3450 grinder too bad. Way too fast. Even 1725-1750 in m=
y
> > mind is too fast.
>
> > If you have a grinder 3450, get a set of pillow blocks, and sheaves and
> > step down the speed. Remount the stone on the new shaft Use a sheave
> > like used on drill presses so you can adjust your speed.
>
> I've been grinding my lathe tools on a high speed grinder for 40 years,
> no problemo. =A0I am not alone, and I'm not [all that] special. =A0The wh=
eel
> density/make up has a lot to do with how quickly things heat up.
> Perhaps a different choice of wheels is in order?

Density, composition, and binder. Coarse white alox, vitrified
bond cuts fast. Vitrified bond means dull grains break off
the wheel, making it essentially self-dressing.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jack wrote:
>
>> I've been grinding my lathe tools on a high speed grinder for 40
>> years, no problemo. I am not alone, and I'm not [all that] special. The
>> wheel density/make up has a lot to do with how quickly things
>> heat up. Perhaps a different choice of wheels is in order?
>
> Or maybe just learning how to use the tools without looking for magic
> tricks. Sometimes you just have to learn - and not rely on something that
> will eliminate that requirement.
>
> It's really getting harder and harder to see people looking for shortcuts
> simply because they just won't invest the time.
>
> -Mike-

I'm a fan of buying the right tool for the job. Sometimes, there can be
modifications that can be done safely, and the results are within
parameters. And sometimes performance and safety suffer. Not to mention
the user.

$.02

Steve

Michael wrote:
> This writer talks about an "inline speed control" for a grinder.
>
> http://toolguyd.com/bench-grinder-craftsman-ryobi-porter-cable-recommendation/
>
> Does anyone know what he is talking about? What should I buy to set this up for my Craftsman grinder? I need lower speeds for my lathe tools.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike

I haven't heard of any that would work on this type of motor. For a
motor with brushes, such as a drill, router etc there are speed
controls available.

--
Gerald Ross

Put on your seatbelt. I wanna try
something.

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve B wrote:
>> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> Jack wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've been grinding my lathe tools on a high speed grinder for 40
>>>> years, no problemo. I am not alone, and I'm not [all that]
>>>> special. The wheel density/make up has a lot to do with how quickly
>>>> things heat up. Perhaps a different choice of wheels is in order?
>>>
>>> Or maybe just learning how to use the tools without looking for magic
>>> tricks. Sometimes you just have to learn - and not rely on
>>> something that will eliminate that requirement.
>>>
>>> It's really getting harder and harder to see people looking for
>>> shortcuts simply because they just won't invest the time.
>>>
>>> -Mike-
>>
>> I'm a fan of buying the right tool for the job. Sometimes, there can
>> be modifications that can be done safely, and the results are within
>> parameters. And sometimes performance and safety suffer. Not to
>> mention the user.
>>
>> $.02
>>
>
> I think I know where you are heading Steve, but your comments above just
> do not make any sense to me. Sometimes..it might...just maybe...oh and
> throw in safety...performance. But what does that really mean? Is that
> meant to disagree with my position that just doing it and learning to do
> things is valuable? I would not be insulted if you disagreed with me, but
> I really cannot understand exactly what you are trying to say.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]

If you can do it safely, and it works, that's good. I have just seen a lot
of jury rigging, and it ends up costing more than the right tool, and then
they have to go buy it, and the money's wasted.

Steve

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Steve B wrote:
>
>>
>> If you can do it safely, and it works, that's good. I have just seen
>> a lot of jury rigging, and it ends up costing more than the right
>> tool, and then they have to go buy it, and the money's wasted.
>>
>
> Well - on that point I can agree somewhat. Those can be valuable lessons,
> and worth a lot more than what can be gained from asking questions in a
> forum, but I do agree that there is a cost to "experimenting". But then
> again - one cannot really learn without experiencing mistakes. It's just
> not possible to read your way to expertise.> -Mike-

Now, I totally disagree with your last sentence. America is full of
experts, people who are educated beyond their capacity, and most of them are
teachers or government employees.

Steve

Steve B wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>> I've been grinding my lathe tools on a high speed grinder for 40
>>> years, no problemo. I am not alone, and I'm not [all that]
>>> special. The wheel density/make up has a lot to do with how quickly
>>> things heat up. Perhaps a different choice of wheels is in order?
>>
>> Or maybe just learning how to use the tools without looking for magic
>> tricks. Sometimes you just have to learn - and not rely on
>> something that will eliminate that requirement.
>>
>> It's really getting harder and harder to see people looking for
>> shortcuts simply because they just won't invest the time.
>>
>> -Mike-
>
> I'm a fan of buying the right tool for the job. Sometimes, there can
> be modifications that can be done safely, and the results are within
> parameters. And sometimes performance and safety suffer. Not to
> mention the user.
>
> $.02
>

I think I know where you are heading Steve, but your comments above just do
not make any sense to me. Sometimes..it might...just maybe...oh and throw
in safety...performance. But what does that really mean? Is that meant to
disagree with my position that just doing it and learning to do things is
valuable? I would not be insulted if you disagreed with me, but I really
cannot understand exactly what you are trying to say.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

On Feb 19, 9:26=A0pm, Michael <[email protected]> wrote:
> Thanks for the advice. =A0I'm going to buy that Porter Cable and be happy=
.
>
> Mike

If you haven't bought yet, consider one of these.

http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2080939/29437/8in-Slow-Speed-Grinder.aspx

I have two, and love them both. First, while not variable, they are
slow speed grinders. Second, and probably just as important, they
come with white, friable wheels which are much superior to sharpening
tool steel than the old gray wheels.

They cut cooler, faster, and with less bounce on the wheel. These
wheels are the best for your lathe tools and cost about $25 each for
the 6" size, and about $35 for the 8" size. Surfacing them on
occasion to keep them clean, mine have lasted for years.

If you buy the 6" grinder, then buy the right wheels, you are at the
same price as this grinder. The Woodcraft boys told me they have kept
these around specifically for wood turners and because they have a
great track record. I believe it; one of mine is 14 years old and
still working fine!

Robert

Michael wrote:
> I did see this in Woodcraft. That price is a little high. Also, I'd
> like to have a grinder set up to do other things that need a higher
> speed (axe, mower blade, &c), and so a variable speed is probably
> better for me.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike

FWIW - and I know this defies the current conventional wisdom... Variable
speed is not necessary. Learn to develop the touch for the material you are
grinding, and you can do it all on a single speed grinder. Don't say that
it can't be done - many of us have developed that knack over the years,
before the variable speed crap came along. It's really not all that
difficult. Sometimes it is really worth the effort to learn to just do it
properly, rather than looking for gadgetry to do the work for you.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Jack wrote:

> I've been grinding my lathe tools on a high speed grinder for 40
> years, no problemo. I am not alone, and I'm not [all that] special. The
> wheel density/make up has a lot to do with how quickly things
> heat up. Perhaps a different choice of wheels is in order?

Or maybe just learning how to use the tools without looking for magic
tricks. Sometimes you just have to learn - and not rely on something that
will eliminate that requirement.

It's really getting harder and harder to see people looking for shortcuts
simply because they just won't invest the time.


--

-Mike-
[email protected]

That's it in a nut shell.

On 2/21/2012 10:31 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Michael wrote:
>> I did see this in Woodcraft. That price is a little high. Also, I'd
>> like to have a grinder set up to do other things that need a higher
>> speed (axe, mower blade,&c), and so a variable speed is probably
>> better for me.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Mike
>
> FWIW - and I know this defies the current conventional wisdom... Variable
> speed is not necessary. Learn to develop the touch for the material you are
> grinding, and you can do it all on a single speed grinder. Don't say that
> it can't be done - many of us have developed that knack over the years,
> before the variable speed crap came along. It's really not all that
> difficult. Sometimes it is really worth the effort to learn to just do it
> properly, rather than looking for gadgetry to do the work for you.
>

Michael wrote:
> That's what I've been doing for the last few years. I can get my
> lathe tools pretty sharp on the regular grinder, but I've also made
> mistakes.
>
> Mike

In response to which comment? It pays to include the text to which you are
replying so that others can understand the context of your comments.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

In article <16149923.23.1329667062666.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynii32>,
Michael <[email protected]> wrote:
>This writer talks about an "inline speed control" for a grinder.
>
>http://toolguyd.com/bench-grinder-craftsman-ryobi-porter-cable-recommendation/
>
>Does anyone know what he is talking about? What should I buy to set this
>up for my Craftsman grinder? I need lower speeds for my lathe tools.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Mike

Most bench grinders and almost certainly the pictured Craftsman use
induction motors and speed control is not practical. There is little
reason to use anything BUT an induction motor on a bench grinder UNLESS
it was designed with the intention of having variable speed. The
common speed controls used for routers and other tools with universal
motors will not work with induction motors. Your best bet for the lathe
tools using a regular grinder is frequent dunking of the tool in water.

--
Better to be stuck up in a tree than tied to one.

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar.org

On 2/19/2012 1:53 PM, tiredofspam wrote:
> Stay away from dimmer switches. Motor variometers are much better choice.
> I don't know that your motor can handle variable speed.
>
> If you bought a 3450 grinder too bad. Way too fast. Even 1725-1750 in my
> mind is too fast.
>
> If you have a grinder 3450, get a set of pillow blocks, and sheaves and
> step down the speed. Remount the stone on the new shaft Use a sheave
> like used on drill presses so you can adjust your speed.

I've been grinding my lathe tools on a high speed grinder for 40 years,
no problemo. I am not alone, and I'm not [all that] special. The wheel
density/make up has a lot to do with how quickly things heat up.
Perhaps a different choice of wheels is in order?
--

Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

On 2/22/2012 12:47 PM, Steve B wrote:
> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Jack wrote:
>>
>>> I've been grinding my lathe tools on a high speed grinder for 40
>>> years, no problemo. I am not alone, and I'm not [all that] special. The
>>> wheel density/make up has a lot to do with how quickly things
>>> heat up. Perhaps a different choice of wheels is in order?
>>
>> Or maybe just learning how to use the tools without looking for magic
>> tricks. Sometimes you just have to learn - and not rely on something that
>> will eliminate that requirement.
>>
>> It's really getting harder and harder to see people looking for shortcuts
>> simply because they just won't invest the time.>>

> I'm a fan of buying the right tool for the job.

We all are. I'm not so sure a high speed grinder is not the right tool
for lathe tool sharpening.

Sometimes, there can be modifications that can be done safely, and the
results are within
> parameters. And sometimes performance and safety suffer. Not to mention
> the user.

Yabut grinders are fairly safe tools, I think. About all that can go
wrong grinding a lathe tool is the wrong angle and burning the temper.
Not saying I haven't looked at some of the fancy nancy low speed
sharpening gizmo's out there, but not so much for my lathe tools as
other things. Lathe tools work perfect right off the grinder, and need
no fancy honing and polishing.

If I didn't already have a high speed grinder, I probably could be
talked into a Griz low speed grinder, or more likely one of those fancy
nancy Tormek Wet Sharpening things. I would not jump though hoops to
slow down my bench grinder, which does a super job on my lathe tools,
not to mention grinding points on off screws, sharpens drills, lawnmower
blades and a million other things.

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

In article <[email protected]>,
Steve B <[email protected]> wrote:
<...snipped...>
>Now, I totally disagree with your last sentence. America is full of
>experts, people who are educated beyond their capacity, and most of them are
>teachers or government employees.


And the rest if them are usenet posters!



--
The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation
with the average voter. (Winston Churchill)

Larry Wasserman - Baltimore Maryland - lwasserm(a)sdf. lonestar. org

Stay away from dimmer switches. Motor variometers are much better choice.
I don't know that your motor can handle variable speed.

If you bought a 3450 grinder too bad. Way too fast. Even 1725-1750 in my
mind is too fast.

If you have a grinder 3450, get a set of pillow blocks, and sheaves and
step down the speed. Remount the stone on the new shaft Use a sheave
like used on drill presses so you can adjust your speed.



On 2/19/2012 11:07 AM, Sonny wrote:
> Though I don't know for sure, I would think it is an inline switch to
> slow or speed up the grinder/grinding speed, similar to a dimmer
> switch for a light. If they (in the link) suspect the Craftsman is
> adaptable for one, you might ask at Sears what it is and/or if it's
> available.
>
> Sonny

"tiredofspam" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Stay away from dimmer switches. Motor variometers are much better choice.
I don't know that your motor can handle variable speed.

If you bought a 3450 grinder too bad. Way too fast. Even 1725-1750 in my
mind is too fast.

If you have a grinder 3450, get a set of pillow blocks, and sheaves and
step down the speed. Remount the stone on the new shaft Use a sheave
like used on drill presses so you can adjust your speed.

=====================================================================
I have a variable speed grinder. I turned it down once just to see what it
would be like. Turned it back up and left it there.

"Michael" wrote in message
news:16149923.23.1329667062666.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@ynii32...

This writer talks about an "inline speed control" for a grinder.

http://toolguyd.com/bench-grinder-craftsman-ryobi-porter-cable-recommendation/

Does anyone know what he is talking about? What should I buy to set this up
for my Craftsman grinder? I need lower speeds for my lathe tools.

Thanks,
=============================================================================================
He basically doesn't know what he is talking about.