Updated filter file available

Doug Miller wrote:

> Today's Updates:

I'm in the process of learning Microsoft Visual Studio .NET. I wonder if
filter updates could be a web service. The filter program would have to be
updated to be able to input/output in ie XML but it seems to me it could
work. The first person to download an objectional message would update the
filter and upload. Everyone else would never see that message if their
filter was configured to "Update from web service before NTTP connect."

This could be the "Moderated Newsgroup" holy grail many are seeking.

I have an ASP.NET enabled web site with SQL Server 2000 so I could host (one
of) the Newsgroup Filter web servii. I don't have plain Win32 development
tools, though, for non .NET client pieces. (Two hard disk crashes this year
and I didn't reinstall the older tools, just .NET stuff.)

Thoughts? Is something like this already at SourceForge?

-- Mark

In article <[email protected]>, Mark Jerde
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Naturally you don't want anyone to be able to block "router" and "table saw"
> for everyone, or block all posts by "charlie b." But I think this can be
> done with proper design and implementation.
>
> Thoughts?

It's not something I would be interested in, even if such a filter
scheme could be designed to accomodated the wide variety of
newsreaders/operating systems people on the wreck use.

I prefer to control my computer as much as possible. Ceding something
as personal as newsgroup filtering goes against that preference.

Include me out...

djb

--
Is it time to change my sig line yet?

Doug Miller wrote:

> Today's Updates:

Ok, I'm not among the elite woodworkers. ;-) I still use butt or rabbets
and for making useful but ugly things. I'm only one or two steps above Red
Green and his Handyman's Secret Weapon, Duct Tape. <g>

But in software I'm not too bad. I'm not elite there either, but I know
people who wrote BASIC compilers in a single page of code (0), interfaced
synthesizer to computers in half a page of code, and wrote the extensions
for IBM's System 36 database so it supported floating point operations. I'm
not on their level but if they speak slowly I can keep up. <g>

In college (1977-82) my crowning achievement was a Scrabble program that no
human could beat if the computer had an "A" or "B" to play or play off of.
(1) (2)

In the late 80's and early 90's I wrote a data dictionary and
directory-crawler / automatic version updater for xBASE files. When there
are 15 people typing data into a system manual methods of updating database
structures are wholly insufficient. (In a perfect world, the system would
be created before "real" data was input. Unfortunately the U.S. Army is
*not* a Perfect World. <g>)

There is no doubt in my mind that I can create filter software that deduces
that a message with the title
"F U C K me up the tight A S S H O L E"
is 99% probable to be obscene.

I can also write software that assumes that any email address with
*.lasite.* is 95% probable to be spam. (My Outlook Express "Blocked
Senders" list includes "lasite.co.ae", "lasite.NOSPAM.nz", "lasite.biz.us",
"lasite.*", "lasite.rec.*", and so on. Yet the spam continues to get
through.)

But I don't want to undertake this just for me.

Forget that I mentioned an "auto update" of blocked messages and senders.
That's too simplistic and it won't work.

Is anyone willing to work on an *intelligent* spam and porn 'filter' that
would leave the ultimate decisions in the hands of the end user?

-- Mark



(0) This is not bullfeathers. I know a guy who wrote a BASIC compiler in
48 SNOBOL statements. It had only one error message: "There is a problem
with your input." Error handling is the difficult part. ;-)

(1) I typed in all the "A" word and "B" words as far as "Bored To Death"
from the Scrabble dictionary. My proofreader was she who was to become
SWMBO and we've been married over 20 years. ;-) If the computer had an "A"
or "B" anywhere to use it *would* nearly always find a seven-letter play.

(2) The essence of the algorithm is this. Have a list of words ( "ACT",
"CAT", "TAC") and internally sort them. The three examples all alphabetize
to "ACT". Assuming you have "TAC" find an open letter. If it is an "F" or
"S" you could possibly play any of these:
FACT SCAT CATS CAST ACTS TACS ...
See if any fit, save the highest score, and try the next tile.

In article <[email protected]>, David Alexander <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>I have a suggestion for you. Add a timestamp or version number in the
>comments at the top. Makes it easier for us to know if we've done the
>update or not, especially if we set it aside for later.
>
I'll think about that. I can't guarantee that I'll remember to change the
timestamp every time I change the file, though...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller

For a copy of my TrollFilter for NewsProxy/Nfilter,
email me at filterinfo-at-milmac-dot-com

Doug Miller wrote:

>> This could be the "Moderated Newsgroup" holy grail many are seeking.
>
> No way.
>
> This is even worse than having a moderator. The biggest objection
> that most of
> us have to a moderator is the difficulty in finding one (or a group)
> that
> would be acceptable to everyone. This scheme would allow *anyone* to
> be a
> censor of *anything* for *everyone*. I would never configure a
> newsreader to
> automatically D/L a filter file that could be updated by anyone and
> everyone.

I think this could be dealt with. My one-paragraph description left out
pages of thoughts. ;-)


> I think the current scheme is working quite well, thank you very
> much. I
> haven't seen *any* of the posts in the latest turdstorms (other than
> entries
> in my "dropped articles" list, showing only the message-id), and
> several other
> people who are using my filters have posted to say that their
> experience
> matches mine. I'll continue to make my filter file available to
> anyone who
> wants to use it, and I would hope that those who do, don't use it
> blindly
> without at least looking at it first to see what it's doing.

My filters don't catch the product spammers who mess with their email
addresses. I think an improved filter could do a good job of guessing at
probable spam when an address is "pretty close" to one already blocked.

Actually, I find the concept of a "filter" too limiting. I have no idea
what OE is blocking. I'd like the filter integrated into the newsreader,
where the filter is more of a "view." You could always see what was blocked
if you wished. Naturally there would be levels of severity. A message with
4 of the 9 words in the "Nasty of Nasties List" in its header would be
blocked much longer than a message with just one.

Naturally you don't want anyone to be able to block "router" and "table saw"
for everyone, or block all posts by "charlie b." But I think this can be
done with proper design and implementation.

Thoughts?

-- Mark

In article <%[email protected]>, "Mark Jerde" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Doug Miller wrote:
>
>> Today's Updates:
>
>I'm in the process of learning Microsoft Visual Studio .NET. I wonder if
>filter updates could be a web service. The filter program would have to be
>updated to be able to input/output in ie XML but it seems to me it could
>work. The first person to download an objectional message would update the
>filter and upload. Everyone else would never see that message if their
>filter was configured to "Update from web service before NTTP connect."
>
>This could be the "Moderated Newsgroup" holy grail many are seeking.

No way.

This is even worse than having a moderator. The biggest objection that most of
us have to a moderator is the difficulty in finding one (or a group) that
would be acceptable to everyone. This scheme would allow *anyone* to be a
censor of *anything* for *everyone*. I would never configure a newsreader to
automatically D/L a filter file that could be updated by anyone and everyone.

I think the current scheme is working quite well, thank you very much. I
haven't seen *any* of the posts in the latest turdstorms (other than entries
in my "dropped articles" list, showing only the message-id), and several other
people who are using my filters have posted to say that their experience
matches mine. I'll continue to make my filter file available to anyone who
wants to use it, and I would hope that those who do, don't use it blindly
without at least looking at it first to see what it's doing.


--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

Dave Balderstone <dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca> wrote in
news:170220041025024961%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_S.balderstone.ca:

> In article <[email protected]>, Mark Jerde
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Naturally you don't want anyone to be able to block "router" and
>> "table saw" for everyone, or block all posts by "charlie b." But I
>> think this can be done with proper design and implementation.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>
> It's not something I would be interested in, even if such a filter
> scheme could be designed to accomodated the wide variety of
> newsreaders/operating systems people on the wreck use.
>
> I prefer to control my computer as much as possible. Ceding something
> as personal as newsgroup filtering goes against that preference.
>
> Include me out...
>
> djb
>

The latest storm got me to finally do something myself, other than turn the
machine off, and go out to the garage/shop/studio.

The fact that I used modified filters posted by a Wrecker, on software
recommended by a Wrecker, is another testament to the power of community.

HOWEVER, I believe that I have the responsibility to learn and understand
my software tools, just as I need to understand the woodworking tools and
finishes, rather than cede decision-making to anyone else, no matter how
trusted.

People can, and often do, recommend to me, try to teach me, preach to me,
but it my responsibility to decide.

Now, back to the shop to work on the cabinet.

Patriarch

On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:03:49 GMT, [email protected] (Doug Miller)
wrote:

>
>Today's Updates:
>

I have a suggestion for you. Add a timestamp or version number in the
comments at the top. Makes it easier for us to know if we've done the
update or not, especially if we set it aside for later.