Well I've been using the new sander for a few weeks and I have to say,
Festool makes some nice stuff! There prices still scare the leather off
of my wallet, but the "little" things this sander does puts the rich
Corinthian leather back into my old pick-em-up truck!
I've used a Porter Cable 333VS 5" ROS for many years. I like it, but
most annoying is waiting for the thing to stop after switching it off.
The pro-5 stops nearly instantly (a slight lag on startup that is
slightly off putting, but I'll deal with it).
The vibration, or really lack there of is also a very nice change. The
sample pack of the light blue Garnet paper seems to live up to it's
reputation. Nice big power switch, comfy grip, what's not to love?
The ROS one of my most used power hand tools, I think this was $200 well
spent. At least I have a year to decide if/what the $50 voucher will be
used on (probably for "system" accessories that no Festool user would be
seen without 8^).
-BR
On 11/24/2016 11:51 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 11/24/16 8:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> FWIW Home depot is not advertizing that the Lifetime warranty is "Your"
>> lifetime and not the tool's life time. That should put an end to the
>> question of whether the tool is worn out from reaching it's lifetime
>> limit.
>>
>>
>>
>> A buddy has taken advantage, twice, of that warranty. Registration is
> critical, and he had to take it to a "qualified" repair center, no
> exchanges at the store. Quite a hassle since he was without the tool for
> several weeks (they didn't stock the batteries). He could have mailed it
> to a service center, but then he'd have to pay for shipping.
>
> Still a good warranty to have, just not user friendly.
> -BR
>
>
I considered all of that and figured that he could deal. In Houston
there are 2~3 service centers so that should not be an issue, hopefully.
On 11/23/2016 9:26 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 11/22/16 10:45 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Be careful with the name of that sand paper, the light blue paper is not
>> Garnet, it is Granat. The Granat paper literally lasts 10 times longer
>> than the Rubin paper that I used to use. And the Rubin was better than
>> I had precious used.
>>
>
> Doh! I was spelling from memory, "Granat" is correct.
>>>
>>>
>>> The ROS one of my most used power hand tools, I think this was $200 well
>>> spent. At least I have a year to decide if/what the $50 voucher will be
>>> used on (probably for "system" accessories that no Festool user would be
>>> seen without 8^).
>>>
>>> -BR
>>
>> $200?
>
> Heh, CRS disease! I was thinking $199 (regular price), I paid the $99
> "Intro" price. Still more expensive at this price point than the other
> 5" ROSs, but it's a cut above in so many ways. I've been itching for a
> right angle 6" to augment my belt sander for the rough hogging out of
> slabs and the Rotex would seem to fill in the gap between the belt
> sander and the 5" ROS with its multiple "modes"
>
> -BR
>
>
Since getting the Rotex, about 7 years ago, I have not once used my
portable belt sander. I bought the 5" version and have been very happy
with that size, even more so now that my new ROS uses 5" paper. I use
The Rotex mostly on glued up joints now.
J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7-
> [email protected]>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
> says...
>>
>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>
>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>>>> 10%.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>
>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
>>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
>>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>
>>
>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
>> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
>> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
>> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
>> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
>> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
>> drywall driver works out.
>
> I don't find that torque is the reason for an
> impact driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill
> can provide as much torque as my impact driver.
> The difference is that the drill feeds the
> torque back into the handle, the impact driver
> doesn't.
>
>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
>> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
>> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>
>
>
Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver and impact
usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by a 3 to 1 margin. On
my older 12 volt Makita driver and impact their we're always times that the
driver simply could not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15
volt driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with little
effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive a large screw and
stop mid way then resume at the previous speed or slower or faster. Most
all of my other drill/ drivers including corded required me to back the
screw up and have momentum going past that point. Or that required a full
pull on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than desirable.
Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the hammer action
is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some times if you tap on a
stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the grip.
On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>> accessories.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>
>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>> 10%.
>>
>>
>
>Do you have a Festool drill also?
No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 18:51:10 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 11/24/16 4:16 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 15:20:37 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/24/16 1:28 PM, krw wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:55:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
<...>
>>> I've started to go all Ridgid for cohesiveness and for their
>>> batteries. The batteries are really, really good and I love having
>>> a lighted power meter on each one that tells you how much charge it
>>> has. The lifetime free replacement thing is a bonus, however, my
>>> oldest batteries are operating as good as my new ones. There's a
>>> reason they offer such a great warranty and it's due in part to the
>>> batteries being such good quality.
>>
>> LiIon has a lot to do with that. I've only lost a couple of Bosch
>> batteries. A couple early in their lives and one a few months ago.
>> They've all been the 12V variety. I didn't worry about it too much
>> because I got them cheap ($10 or so).
>>
>> Again, I have nothing really against Ridgid. I don't like their
>> "feel" but that's 100% personal opinion.
>>
>
>Yes, the LiIon is a great technology. If and when I need to replace the
>batteries, it will be nice to just get free ones in the mail and not
>have to buy all new tools, which is generally what has happened in the
>past.
The only reason I bought the Festool sheetrock gun was because I can
trust LiIon batteries' shelf life. I don't use these things every day
and don't want to have the batteries die before I use it. I have a
Roto-Zip that I like for sheetrock work but it's NiCds are dead and
the rebuilts were useful once and dead the next time I wanted to use
the tool.
I've bought replacement batteries for even old tools and have had some
rebuilt (NiCds). You can still buy the Makita "sticks". Batteries
are expensive, though.
As I think I mentioned earlier, I have two sets of 12V and 18V Bosch
drills and drivers. The second sets were Black Friday deals and were
cheaper than the two batteries in the kit (with a spare charger,
thrown in).
On 11/24/16 7:14 PM, krw wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 18:51:10 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/16 4:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 15:20:37 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/24/16 1:28 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:55:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
> <...>
>>>> I've started to go all Ridgid for cohesiveness and for their
>>>> batteries. The batteries are really, really good and I love having
>>>> a lighted power meter on each one that tells you how much charge it
>>>> has. The lifetime free replacement thing is a bonus, however, my
>>>> oldest batteries are operating as good as my new ones. There's a
>>>> reason they offer such a great warranty and it's due in part to the
>>>> batteries being such good quality.
>>>
>>> LiIon has a lot to do with that. I've only lost a couple of Bosch
>>> batteries. A couple early in their lives and one a few months ago.
>>> They've all been the 12V variety. I didn't worry about it too much
>>> because I got them cheap ($10 or so).
>>>
>>> Again, I have nothing really against Ridgid. I don't like their
>>> "feel" but that's 100% personal opinion.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, the LiIon is a great technology. If and when I need to replace the
>> batteries, it will be nice to just get free ones in the mail and not
>> have to buy all new tools, which is generally what has happened in the
>> past.
>
> The only reason I bought the Festool sheetrock gun was because I can
> trust LiIon batteries' shelf life. I don't use these things every day
> and don't want to have the batteries die before I use it. I have a
> Roto-Zip that I like for sheetrock work but it's NiCds are dead and
> the rebuilts were useful once and dead the next time I wanted to use
> the tool.
>
> I've bought replacement batteries for even old tools and have had some
> rebuilt (NiCds). You can still buy the Makita "sticks". Batteries
> are expensive, though.
>
> As I think I mentioned earlier, I have two sets of 12V and 18V Bosch
> drills and drivers. The second sets were Black Friday deals and were
> cheaper than the two batteries in the kit (with a spare charger,
> thrown in).
>
Christmas and Fathers' Day are great for picking up 2-packs of
batteries... that also happen to come with a free tool and charger. At
least that's how I look at it. :-)
I'll usually pick up a cheaper drill pack that comes with 2 batteries,
just to have the extras plus I leave the drill somewhere like under the
car seat as an emergency spare.
The shelf life *is* great. I think I'm up to 8 Ridgid batteries, now,
and it's REALLY nice to know I have charged ones on the shelf at all
times.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 11/23/2016 9:28 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>
>>
>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>> accessories.
>>
>
> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>
> -BR
>
LOL, I think the Pro5 is Festool Bait. Well worth double but an
excellent way to get those sitting on the fence, wondering if the brand
is worth the extra money, to take the plunge.
On Tuesday, November 22, 2016 at 10:59:49 AM UTC-5, Brewster wrote:
> Well I've been using the new sander for a few weeks and I have to say,
> Festool makes some nice stuff! There prices still scare the leather off
> of my wallet, but the "little" things this sander does puts the rich
> Corinthian leather back into my old pick-em-up truck!
>
> I've used a Porter Cable 333VS 5" ROS for many years. I like it, but
> most annoying is waiting for the thing to stop after switching it off.
> The pro-5 stops nearly instantly (a slight lag on startup that is
> slightly off putting, but I'll deal with it).
>
One of the features of that tool is listed as "soft-start", which
eliminates the high torque at startup. Is that what you are referring
to as the "slight lag on startup"?
I don't have a ROS. Do they typically have a high startup torque?
My PC router doesn't have soft-start but my Rocky 30 trim router does. I
like it.
On 11/24/2016 9:28 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 11/24/16 8:10 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Yes by the nature of how the impact operates you get a lot less feed
>> back through the handle but there is a significant increase in torque
>> which will break screws/bolts loose that a common driver will not.
>> So for you the advantage of no feed back is a valid point, for me the
>> added torque is/was the advantage. But moving from that stand point,
>> the impact noise is a disadvantage especially in confined spaces.
>
> I see some of the new impact cordless drivers now use oil instead of a
> hammer/anvil approach. Supposedly greatly reduces the noise.
>
>>
>> In my younger days and working in the automotive industry impact
>> wrenches were an absolute necessity. I can't tell you how many times I
>> used one. To the unknowing the 3/4" drive impacts that we used to
>> remove 19 wheeler wheels was intimidating. It was often mentioned that
>> you should hold on for your life. Weighing in at about 135lbs back then
>> I joyed in using that impact over a 5' breaker bar.
>>
>
> Back in my gear head days, the air-impact driver was a godsend. Nothing
> worse than removing rusty nuts on leaf spring U-bolts where there is
> several inches of threads to back a stubborn nut over. Also great for
> quick tear down of engines (head bolts especially). Didn't use for
> reassembly of course.
Our mechanics, in the dealership, used impacts at lowest settings and
air ratchets to spin the bolts back in during reassembly only to be
followed with a torque wrench for proper torque and sequence.
I always lusted after one of those 3/4" monsters
> (based on the claimed torque capacity), but the mass was indeed
> intimidating.
Yes, they were somewhat heavy and bulky compared to a 1/2" LOL
We also had to use the compressor on the truck to power that 3/4"
impact. The hose on the truck was the only one we had that could supply
enough volume of air to power the 3/4" impact. That hose was much too
bulky for normal use inside the shop.
On 11/24/2016 9:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>
> FWIW Home depot is not advertizing that the Lifetime warranty is "Your"
> lifetime and not the tool's life time. That should put an end to the
> question of whether the tool is worn out from reaching it's lifetime limit.
>
>
>
>
Crap!
> FWIW Home depot is NOW advertising that the Lifetime warranty is
"Your" lifetime and not the tool's life time.
In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7-
[email protected]>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
says...
>
> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
> > On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
> >>>>> accessories.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
> >>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
> >>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
> >>>
> >>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
> >>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
> >>> 10%.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Do you have a Festool drill also?
> >
> > No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
> > than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
> > looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
> >
>
> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
> drywall driver works out.
I don't find that torque is the reason for an
impact driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill
can provide as much torque as my impact driver.
The difference is that the drill feeds the
torque back into the handle, the impact driver
doesn't.
> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
In article
<2126651264.501688274.455822.lcb11211-
[email protected]>, lcb11211
@swbell.net says...
>
> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
> > In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7-
> > [email protected]>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
> > says...
> >>
> >> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
> >>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
> >>>>>>> accessories.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
> >>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
> >>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
> >>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
> >>>>> 10%.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
> >>>
> >>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
> >>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
> >>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
> >>>
> >>
> >> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
> >> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
> >> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
> >> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
> >> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
> >> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
> >> drywall driver works out.
> >
> > I don't find that torque is the reason for an
> > impact driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill
> > can provide as much torque as my impact driver.
> > The difference is that the drill feeds the
> > torque back into the handle, the impact driver
> > doesn't.
> >
> >> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
> >> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
> >> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver and impact
> usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by a 3 to 1 margin. On
> my older 12 volt Makita driver and impact their we're always times that the
> driver simply could not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15
> volt driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with little
> effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive a large screw and
> stop mid way then resume at the previous speed or slower or faster. Most
> all of my other drill/ drivers including corded required me to back the
> screw up and have momentum going past that point. Or that required a full
> pull on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than desirable.
>
> Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the hammer action
> is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some times if you tap on a
> stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the grip.
When I drive screws with the hammer drill I turn
the hammer off, silly.
And I have never had a drill that didn't try to
twist out of my hand when the bit was firmly
secured to a stuck screw. That's the real
benefit of the impact driver.
On 11/23/2016 9:37 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 11/23/16 7:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 22, 2016 at 10:59:49 AM UTC-5, Brewster wrote:
>>> Well I've been using the new sander for a few weeks and I have to say,
>>> Festool makes some nice stuff! There prices still scare the leather off
>>> of my wallet, but the "little" things this sander does puts the rich
>>> Corinthian leather back into my old pick-em-up truck!
>>>
>>> I've used a Porter Cable 333VS 5" ROS for many years. I like it, but
>>> most annoying is waiting for the thing to stop after switching it off.
>>> The pro-5 stops nearly instantly (a slight lag on startup that is
>>> slightly off putting, but I'll deal with it).
>>>
>>
>> One of the features of that tool is listed as "soft-start", which
>> eliminates the high torque at startup. Is that what you are referring
>> to as the "slight lag on startup"?
>
> No, this is a lot like the delayed start that some LED lights have. You
> flip the switch and there is a short (fraction of a second) delay before
> the sander begins to spin up. I have no issued with starting/stopping
> the sander while in contact with the wood whereas my older ROS would
> leave nasty swirl scratches if I did that.
Mine has a slight delayed start too. If yours has the feature that lets
you prevent the sander from starting with out a dust collection hose
attached this may be the delay. My sander has the option of defeating
that feature if you want.
>
>>
>> I don't have a ROS. Do they typically have a high startup torque?
>
> I'm sure they all act differently, but my PC would hit full speed the
> moment the power was switched. I got used to this but the spin down time
> was getting old. The Festool spins down to a stop very quickly. I'm
> guessing that this sander is brushless so a more advanced breaking
> circuit is possible.
Again, on my sander, the spin down is almost instant, you can't set it
down too fast. Festool uses a ceramic break instead of the typical
rubber one that wears out relatively quickly. Your sander may have that
feature too.
>
>>
>> My PC router doesn't have soft-start but my Rocky 30 trim router does. I
>> like it.
> My PC router has the soft start which is nice, but this model apparently
> has failures in that circuit. I'm dreading the day mine fails. My
> Miluakee and Bosch Colt also do that, I can't imaging using a multi-HP
> router and big bit without that feature.
>
> -BR
Routers with out soft start, especially the big ones, are something that
gets your attention. I have an old Bosch 3+hp plunge router that is not
VS and NOT soft start. YOU better be holding on when you hit the switch.
On 11/22/2016 9:59 AM, Brewster wrote:
> Well I've been using the new sander for a few weeks and I have to say,
> Festool makes some nice stuff! There prices still scare the leather off
> of my wallet, but the "little" things this sander does puts the rich
> Corinthian leather back into my old pick-em-up truck!
>
> I've used a Porter Cable 333VS 5" ROS for many years. I like it, but
> most annoying is waiting for the thing to stop after switching it off.
> The pro-5 stops nearly instantly (a slight lag on startup that is
> slightly off putting, but I'll deal with it).
I used the PC right angle for almost 20 years and replaced it with the
Rotex. And I replaced my PC Speedbloc at almost the same time with the
RTS 400. Both of these sanders well out performed the PC's.
In the last 3-5 months I added to my collection, I was strongly
considering the ETS125 ROS but compared it the the ETS EC125/3 and opted
to go with the later. The one I turned down is the more expensive but
less features brother to the Pro-5. It was a close call but the ETS
EC125/3 is almost as powerful as the Rotex but extremely easy to control
as I am sure the Pro-5 continues to be over the ETS125.
>
> The vibration, or really lack there of is also a very nice change. The
> sample pack of the light blue Garnet paper seems to live up to it's
> reputation. Nice big power switch, comfy grip, what's not to love?
Lovely eh? LOL. I find that true to with the one I bought, I can lay
it upside down in my lap and sand small parts with great ease. The
vibration is so little that I don't turn the sander off, when in my lap,
when I do a touch of manual hand sanding on those small parts.
Be careful with the name of that sand paper, the light blue paper is not
Garnet, it is Granat. The Granat paper literally lasts 10 times longer
than the Rubin paper that I used to use. And the Rubin was better than
I had precious used.
>
>
> The ROS one of my most used power hand tools, I think this was $200 well
> spent. At least I have a year to decide if/what the $50 voucher will be
> used on (probably for "system" accessories that no Festool user would be
> seen without 8^).
>
> -BR
$200?
On 11/24/2016 8:19 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> In article
> <2126651264.501688274.455822.lcb11211-
> [email protected]>, lcb11211
> @swbell.net says...
>>
>> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7-
>>> [email protected]>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>>>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>>>>>> 10%.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
>>>>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
>>>>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
>>>> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
>>>> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
>>>> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
>>>> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
>>>> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
>>>> drywall driver works out.
>>>
>>> I don't find that torque is the reason for an
>>> impact driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill
>>> can provide as much torque as my impact driver.
>>> The difference is that the drill feeds the
>>> torque back into the handle, the impact driver
>>> doesn't.
>>>
>>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
>>>> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
>>>> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver and impact
>> usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by a 3 to 1 margin. On
>> my older 12 volt Makita driver and impact their we're always times that the
>> driver simply could not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15
>> volt driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with little
>> effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive a large screw and
>> stop mid way then resume at the previous speed or slower or faster. Most
>> all of my other drill/ drivers including corded required me to back the
>> screw up and have momentum going past that point. Or that required a full
>> pull on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than desirable.
>>
>> Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the hammer action
>> is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some times if you tap on a
>> stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the grip.
>
> When I drive screws with the hammer drill I turn
> the hammer off, silly.
Well if you need to break a stuck screw loose the hammer action probably
would help initially but after it breaks loose it probably offers nothing.
>
> And I have never had a drill that didn't try to
> twist out of my hand when the bit was firmly
> secured to a stuck screw. That's the real
> benefit of the impact driver.
Yes by the nature of how the impact operates you get a lot less feed
back through the handle but there is a significant increase in torque
which will break screws/bolts loose that a common driver will not.
So for you the advantage of no feed back is a valid point, for me the
added torque is/was the advantage. But moving from that stand point,
the impact noise is a disadvantage especially in confined spaces.
In my younger days and working in the automotive industry impact
wrenches were an absolute necessity. I can't tell you how many times I
used one. To the unknowing the 3/4" drive impacts that we used to
remove 19 wheeler wheels was intimidating. It was often mentioned that
you should hold on for your life. Weighing in at about 135lbs back then
I joyed in using that impact over a 5' breaker bar.
On Tue, 22 Nov 2016 08:59:45 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>Well I've been using the new sander for a few weeks and I have to say,
>Festool makes some nice stuff! There prices still scare the leather off
>of my wallet, but the "little" things this sander does puts the rich
>Corinthian leather back into my old pick-em-up truck!
>
>I've used a Porter Cable 333VS 5" ROS for many years. I like it, but
>most annoying is waiting for the thing to stop after switching it off.
>The pro-5 stops nearly instantly (a slight lag on startup that is
>slightly off putting, but I'll deal with it).
>
>The vibration, or really lack there of is also a very nice change. The
>sample pack of the light blue Garnet paper seems to live up to it's
>reputation. Nice big power switch, comfy grip, what's not to love?
>
>
>The ROS one of my most used power hand tools, I think this was $200 well
>spent. At least I have a year to decide if/what the $50 voucher will be
>used on (probably for "system" accessories that no Festool user would be
>seen without 8^).
I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
accessories.
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:55:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/24/2016 8:41 AM, krw wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:15:04 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7-
>>>> [email protected]>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
>>>> says...
>>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>>>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>>>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>>>>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>>>>>>> 10%.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
>>>>>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
>>>>>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
>>>>> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
>>>>> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
>>>>> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
>>>>> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
>>>>> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
>>>>> drywall driver works out.
>>>>
>>>> I don't find that torque is the reason for an
>>>> impact driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill
>>>> can provide as much torque as my impact driver.
>>>> The difference is that the drill feeds the
>>>> torque back into the handle, the impact driver
>>>> doesn't.
>>>>
>>>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
>>>>> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
>>>>> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver and impact
>>> usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by a 3 to 1 margin. On
>>> my older 12 volt Makita driver and impact their we're always times that the
>>> driver simply could not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15
>>> volt driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with little
>>> effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive a large screw and
>>> stop mid way then resume at the previous speed or slower or faster. Most
>>> all of my other drill/ drivers including corded required me to back the
>>> screw up and have momentum going past that point. Or that required a full
>>> pull on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than desirable.
>>
>> I have both 12V and 18V versions of the Bosch impact drivers and
>> drills. The 12V are good for about 80% of the work I do and they're
>> very light (easy to use over the head or under counters). The 18V
>> takes care of the rest.
>>>
>>> Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the hammer action
>>> is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some times if you tap on a
>>> stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the grip.
>>
>> I think his point was that the hammer-drill is a beast, not that he's
>> using the hammer feature for driving screws. OTOH, beasts are heavy.
>
>Possibly but not necessarily. Hammer drills when comparing apples to
>apples, at least with the Ridgid brand Gen5 18 volt Hammer/Drill/Driver
>compared to the Ridgid Gen 5 18 volt Drill/Driver the torque specs are
>700 and 650 respectively. Now if he is using a more powerful class
>hammer drill compared to the his impact there certainly could be a world
>of difference.
Sorry, I don't consider Ridgid, particularly the stuff sold at HD, to
be the gold standard of power tools.
>
>My son has been borrowing my Festool drill/driver and Bosch Impact a lot
>lately but he does live 30 minutes away. He was using his friends
>clutched corded drill for driving screws during a renovation. He
>complained constantly about the problems with driving and removing
>screws with that tool. Now he really really likes the cordless Festool
>because of the slow speed torque.
>I'm hoping that the Ridgid combo hammer drill/driver and impact will
>offer the same control and torque, he is getting that for Christmas.
>I figure that since he does not use the drill as much as I do that the
>finer features of the Festool might not come into play for him. The
>life time warranty on the Ridgid and batteries will hopefully insure
>that he will get a decent amount of use from the drill regardless of how
>many years that takes. ;~)
LiIon batteries have a long shelf-life. Their nemesis is constant
(re)charging. They're best left alone, if not used.
>
>FWIW Home depot is not advertizing that the Lifetime warranty is "Your"
>lifetime and not the tool's life time. That should put an end to the
>question of whether the tool is worn out from reaching it's lifetime limit.
>
Sears used to say the same thing. Turns out, the warranty was only
good for the life of Sears. ;-)
>
>
>> One of the things I don't like about, at least some of, the Festool
>> drills is that piece that comes down in front of the fingers. It
>> would seem that it would constantly get in the way.
>>
>Yeah I did not really care for that bar, I did not really get interested
>in a Festool drill until the T handle version came out.
Do you have any idea what it's for?
On 11/24/16 1:28 PM, krw wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:55:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/2016 8:41 AM, krw wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:15:04 -0600, Leon <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7- [email protected]>,
>>>>> lcb11211@swbelldotnet says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon
>>>>>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster
>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another
>>>>>>>>>>> power tool, not accessories.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust
>>>>>>>>>> collection, AKA small vacuum as an accessory,
>>>>>>>>>> though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a
>>>>>>>>> *lot* of sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble>
>>>>>>>>> years. Again, it was only 10%.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them -
>>>>>>> tools are cheaper than batteries). The screw gun is my
>>>>>>> only cordless Festool. I'm looking at a Carvex but I
>>>>>>> still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has
>>>>>> replace my need for an impact driver, the Makita. I do
>>>>>> have a Bosch impact that I got for free several years ago
>>>>>> and I use it as a back up drill mostly. I do not know if it
>>>>>> is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have as
>>>>>> much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that
>>>>>> it eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let
>>>>>> us know how that drywall driver works out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't find that torque is the reason for an impact
>>>>> driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill can provide as much
>>>>> torque as my impact driver. The difference is that the drill
>>>>> feeds the torque back into the handle, the impact driver
>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my
>>>>>> Milwaukee jigsaw and I don't use it much except for rough
>>>>>> cutting boards to length and a few other cuts that would be
>>>>>> hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver
>>>> and impact usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by
>>>> a 3 to 1 margin. On my older 12 volt Makita driver and
>>>> impact their we're always times that the driver simply could
>>>> not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15 volt
>>>> driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with
>>>> little effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive
>>>> a large screw and stop mid way then resume at the previous
>>>> speed or slower or faster. Most all of my other drill/ drivers
>>>> including corded required me to back the screw up and have
>>>> momentum going past that point. Or that required a full pull
>>>> on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than
>>>> desirable.
>>>
>>> I have both 12V and 18V versions of the Bosch impact drivers and
>>> drills. The 12V are good for about 80% of the work I do and
>>> they're very light (easy to use over the head or under counters).
>>> The 18V takes care of the rest.
>>>>
>>>> Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the
>>>> hammer action is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some
>>>> times if you tap on a stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the
>>>> grip.
>>>
>>> I think his point was that the hammer-drill is a beast, not that
>>> he's using the hammer feature for driving screws. OTOH, beasts
>>> are heavy.
>>
>> Possibly but not necessarily. Hammer drills when comparing apples
>> to apples, at least with the Ridgid brand Gen5 18 volt
>> Hammer/Drill/Driver compared to the Ridgid Gen 5 18 volt
>> Drill/Driver the torque specs are 700 and 650 respectively. Now if
>> he is using a more powerful class hammer drill compared to the his
>> impact there certainly could be a world of difference.
>
> Sorry, I don't consider Ridgid, particularly the stuff sold at HD,
> to be the gold standard of power tools.
I'm extremely pleased with my Ridgid cordless tools and I keep buying
more.
Their newer generation is much better than previous ones.
I've tried just about every brand out there and they are all about the
same quality and performance for the price. There's not much
difference, anymore, between all the high end brands and Ridgid sits
right up there with Milwaukee and Makita, imo. I'm sure with Festool's
price comes a great improvement in performance.
I've started to go all Ridgid for cohesiveness and for their batteries.
The batteries are really, really good and I love having a lighted power
meter on each one that tells you how much charge it has. The lifetime
free replacement thing is a bonus, however, my oldest batteries are
operating as good as my new ones. There's a reason they offer such a
great warranty and it's due in part to the batteries being such good
quality.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>
>>
>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>> accessories.
>>
>
>Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>discount (basically FesToolBait).
I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
10%.
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 15:20:37 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 11/24/16 1:28 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:55:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/24/2016 8:41 AM, krw wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:15:04 -0600, Leon <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7- [email protected]>,
>>>>>> lcb11211@swbelldotnet says...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon
>>>>>>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster
>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another
>>>>>>>>>>>> power tool, not accessories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust
>>>>>>>>>>> collection, AKA small vacuum as an accessory,
>>>>>>>>>>> though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a
>>>>>>>>>> *lot* of sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble>
>>>>>>>>>> years. Again, it was only 10%.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them -
>>>>>>>> tools are cheaper than batteries). The screw gun is my
>>>>>>>> only cordless Festool. I'm looking at a Carvex but I
>>>>>>>> still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has
>>>>>>> replace my need for an impact driver, the Makita. I do
>>>>>>> have a Bosch impact that I got for free several years ago
>>>>>>> and I use it as a back up drill mostly. I do not know if it
>>>>>>> is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have as
>>>>>>> much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that
>>>>>>> it eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let
>>>>>>> us know how that drywall driver works out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't find that torque is the reason for an impact
>>>>>> driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill can provide as much
>>>>>> torque as my impact driver. The difference is that the drill
>>>>>> feeds the torque back into the handle, the impact driver
>>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my
>>>>>>> Milwaukee jigsaw and I don't use it much except for rough
>>>>>>> cutting boards to length and a few other cuts that would be
>>>>>>> hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver
>>>>> and impact usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by
>>>>> a 3 to 1 margin. On my older 12 volt Makita driver and
>>>>> impact their we're always times that the driver simply could
>>>>> not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15 volt
>>>>> driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with
>>>>> little effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive
>>>>> a large screw and stop mid way then resume at the previous
>>>>> speed or slower or faster. Most all of my other drill/ drivers
>>>>> including corded required me to back the screw up and have
>>>>> momentum going past that point. Or that required a full pull
>>>>> on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than
>>>>> desirable.
>>>>
>>>> I have both 12V and 18V versions of the Bosch impact drivers and
>>>> drills. The 12V are good for about 80% of the work I do and
>>>> they're very light (easy to use over the head or under counters).
>>>> The 18V takes care of the rest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the
>>>>> hammer action is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some
>>>>> times if you tap on a stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the
>>>>> grip.
>>>>
>>>> I think his point was that the hammer-drill is a beast, not that
>>>> he's using the hammer feature for driving screws. OTOH, beasts
>>>> are heavy.
>>>
>>> Possibly but not necessarily. Hammer drills when comparing apples
>>> to apples, at least with the Ridgid brand Gen5 18 volt
>>> Hammer/Drill/Driver compared to the Ridgid Gen 5 18 volt
>>> Drill/Driver the torque specs are 700 and 650 respectively. Now if
>>> he is using a more powerful class hammer drill compared to the his
>>> impact there certainly could be a world of difference.
>>
>> Sorry, I don't consider Ridgid, particularly the stuff sold at HD,
>> to be the gold standard of power tools.
>
>I'm extremely pleased with my Ridgid cordless tools and I keep buying
>more.
>Their newer generation is much better than previous ones.
I didn't mean that they were junk, only that extrapolating the torque
of a hammer-driver to a drill, based on one example isn't useful.
>
>I've tried just about every brand out there and they are all about the
>same quality and performance for the price. There's not much
>difference, anymore, between all the high end brands and Ridgid sits
>right up there with Milwaukee and Makita, imo. I'm sure with Festool's
>price comes a great improvement in performance.
I've had many different drills and haven't found anything that I like
better than the Bosch. Even there, each model (12V, 18V, impact
driver, driver, drill) has its uses. None does it all. I am partial
to the 12V units, though. They're nice an light.
>
>I've started to go all Ridgid for cohesiveness and for their batteries.
> The batteries are really, really good and I love having a lighted power
>meter on each one that tells you how much charge it has. The lifetime
>free replacement thing is a bonus, however, my oldest batteries are
>operating as good as my new ones. There's a reason they offer such a
>great warranty and it's due in part to the batteries being such good
>quality.
LiIon has a lot to do with that. I've only lost a couple of Bosch
batteries. A couple early in their lives and one a few months ago.
They've all been the 12V variety. I didn't worry about it too much
because I got them cheap ($10 or so).
Again, I have nothing really against Ridgid. I don't like their
"feel" but that's 100% personal opinion.
On 11/24/2016 4:16 PM, krw wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 15:20:37 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/16 1:28 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:55:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/24/2016 8:41 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:15:04 -0600, Leon <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7- [email protected]>,
>>>>>>> lcb11211@swbelldotnet says...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon
>>>>>>>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another
>>>>>>>>>>>>> power tool, not accessories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust
>>>>>>>>>>>> collection, AKA small vacuum as an accessory,
>>>>>>>>>>>> though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>>>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a
>>>>>>>>>>> *lot* of sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble>
>>>>>>>>>>> years. Again, it was only 10%.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them -
>>>>>>>>> tools are cheaper than batteries). The screw gun is my
>>>>>>>>> only cordless Festool. I'm looking at a Carvex but I
>>>>>>>>> still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has
>>>>>>>> replace my need for an impact driver, the Makita. I do
>>>>>>>> have a Bosch impact that I got for free several years ago
>>>>>>>> and I use it as a back up drill mostly. I do not know if it
>>>>>>>> is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have as
>>>>>>>> much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that
>>>>>>>> it eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let
>>>>>>>> us know how that drywall driver works out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't find that torque is the reason for an impact
>>>>>>> driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill can provide as much
>>>>>>> torque as my impact driver. The difference is that the drill
>>>>>>> feeds the torque back into the handle, the impact driver
>>>>>>> doesn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my
>>>>>>>> Milwaukee jigsaw and I don't use it much except for rough
>>>>>>>> cutting boards to length and a few other cuts that would be
>>>>>>>> hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver
>>>>>> and impact usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by
>>>>>> a 3 to 1 margin. On my older 12 volt Makita driver and
>>>>>> impact their we're always times that the driver simply could
>>>>>> not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15 volt
>>>>>> driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with
>>>>>> little effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive
>>>>>> a large screw and stop mid way then resume at the previous
>>>>>> speed or slower or faster. Most all of my other drill/ drivers
>>>>>> including corded required me to back the screw up and have
>>>>>> momentum going past that point. Or that required a full pull
>>>>>> on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than
>>>>>> desirable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have both 12V and 18V versions of the Bosch impact drivers and
>>>>> drills. The 12V are good for about 80% of the work I do and
>>>>> they're very light (easy to use over the head or under counters).
>>>>> The 18V takes care of the rest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the
>>>>>> hammer action is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some
>>>>>> times if you tap on a stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the
>>>>>> grip.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think his point was that the hammer-drill is a beast, not that
>>>>> he's using the hammer feature for driving screws. OTOH, beasts
>>>>> are heavy.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly but not necessarily. Hammer drills when comparing apples
>>>> to apples, at least with the Ridgid brand Gen5 18 volt
>>>> Hammer/Drill/Driver compared to the Ridgid Gen 5 18 volt
>>>> Drill/Driver the torque specs are 700 and 650 respectively. Now if
>>>> he is using a more powerful class hammer drill compared to the his
>>>> impact there certainly could be a world of difference.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't consider Ridgid, particularly the stuff sold at HD,
>>> to be the gold standard of power tools.
>>
>> I'm extremely pleased with my Ridgid cordless tools and I keep buying
>> more.
>> Their newer generation is much better than previous ones.
>
> I didn't mean that they were junk, only that extrapolating the torque
> of a hammer-driver to a drill, based on one example isn't useful.
Certainly, but I just picked one out of the hat. I suspect I would find
similar results with other brands of "same class" hammer drills and
driver drills.
>>
>> I've tried just about every brand out there and they are all about the
>> same quality and performance for the price. There's not much
>> difference, anymore, between all the high end brands and Ridgid sits
>> right up there with Milwaukee and Makita, imo. I'm sure with Festool's
>> price comes a great improvement in performance.
>
> I've had many different drills and haven't found anything that I like
> better than the Bosch. Even there, each model (12V, 18V, impact
> driver, driver, drill) has its uses. None does it all. I am partial
> to the 12V units, though. They're nice an light.
I tried Bosch in 1986, I was using a new Bosch corded hammer drill to
drill 1/2" holes in concrete, several hundreds, to anchor work benches
in a 40 bay shop. That tool 2 replacement drill to finish. At a HD
demo about 15 years ago the rep hande me the Bosch drill to try out and
the gears stripped, The motor ran but the chuck did not turn. There
has been at least one instance. Obviously I was in the wrong place at
the wrong time every time. There would be no Bosch drills if my
experience was even a slight sample of actual experience.
About 10 yeass or so ago a Bosch Impactor showed up on my door step,
addressed to me with no return address and no explanation. I still have
it and use it on occasion. The 1.5 ish amp 18 volt Li-Ion died after
less than 3% use, time ran out on it as far as shelf life goes. I do
not recall recharging the batteries more than 4~5 times. I will keep It
around as Battery Plus has the same amp Li-Ion replacement for about
$25, that was 2-3 years ago.
>>
>> I've started to go all Ridgid for cohesiveness and for their batteries.
>> The batteries are really, really good and I love having a lighted power
>> meter on each one that tells you how much charge it has. The lifetime
>> free replacement thing is a bonus, however, my oldest batteries are
>> operating as good as my new ones. There's a reason they offer such a
>> great warranty and it's due in part to the batteries being such good
>> quality.
>
> LiIon has a lot to do with that. I've only lost a couple of Bosch
> batteries. A couple early in their lives and one a few months ago.
> They've all been the 12V variety. I didn't worry about it too much
> because I got them cheap ($10 or so).
>
> Again, I have nothing really against Ridgid. I don't like their
> "feel" but that's 100% personal opinion.
>
I looked seriously at Ridgid when they started introducing the lifetime
warranty including the batteries and IIRC that was not an across the
board change as it was initially for a limited time period. I thought
the drills were too heavy and went for the Makita. I bought the drill
kit this time for my son whose main interest is still the work he does
in a private windowed office in a Houston hi-rise. His fiance is the
one pushing him into home renovation. LOL SHE is not afraid to get her
hands dirty and the one that requested that they get a cordless drill
for Christmas.
On 11/24/16 4:16 PM, krw wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 15:20:37 -0600, -MIKE- <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/24/16 1:28 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 09:55:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/24/2016 8:41 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:15:04 -0600, Leon
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7-
>>>>>>> [email protected]>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet says...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon
>>>>>>>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster
>>>>>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on
>>>>>>>>>>>>> another power tool, not accessories.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust
>>>>>>>>>>>> collection, AKA small vacuum as an accessory,
>>>>>>>>>>>> though $50 amounts to little more than a
>>>>>>>>>>>> 10-15% discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I
>>>>>>>>>>> have a *lot* of sheetrock to hang over the next
>>>>>>>>>>> <mumble> years. Again, it was only 10%.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them -
>>>>>>>>> tools are cheaper than batteries). The screw gun is
>>>>>>>>> my only cordless Festool. I'm looking at a Carvex
>>>>>>>>> but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill
>>>>>>>> has replace my need for an impact driver, the Makita.
>>>>>>>> I do have a Bosch impact that I got for free several
>>>>>>>> years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly. I do
>>>>>>>> not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless
>>>>>>>> drills to have as much torque as my Festool drill but
>>>>>>>> I am surprised that it eliminated the need for an
>>>>>>>> impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that drywall
>>>>>>>> driver works out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't find that torque is the reason for an impact
>>>>>>> driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill can provide as
>>>>>>> much torque as my impact driver. The difference is that
>>>>>>> the drill feeds the torque back into the handle, the
>>>>>>> impact driver doesn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my
>>>>>>>> Milwaukee jigsaw and I don't use it much except for
>>>>>>>> rough cutting boards to length and a few other cuts
>>>>>>>> that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of
>>>>>> driver and impact usually gives the torque advantage to the
>>>>>> impact by a 3 to 1 margin. On my older 12 volt Makita
>>>>>> driver and impact their we're always times that the driver
>>>>>> simply could not drive a large screw or lag screw. The
>>>>>> Festool 15 volt driver cab sink lag screws and long #10
>>>>>> deck screws with little effort. Anyway I can relatively
>>>>>> quickly or slowly drive a large screw and stop mid way then
>>>>>> resume at the previous speed or slower or faster. Most all
>>>>>> of my other drill/ drivers including corded required me to
>>>>>> back the screw up and have momentum going past that point.
>>>>>> Or that required a full pull on the trigger to proceed
>>>>>> often with more speed than desirable.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have both 12V and 18V versions of the Bosch impact drivers
>>>>> and drills. The 12V are good for about 80% of the work I do
>>>>> and they're very light (easy to use over the head or under
>>>>> counters). The 18V takes care of the rest.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that
>>>>>> the hammer action is not adding torque so much as
>>>>>> vibration. Some times if you tap on a stuck nut or bolt
>>>>>> it will loosen the grip.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think his point was that the hammer-drill is a beast, not
>>>>> that he's using the hammer feature for driving screws. OTOH,
>>>>> beasts are heavy.
>>>>
>>>> Possibly but not necessarily. Hammer drills when comparing
>>>> apples to apples, at least with the Ridgid brand Gen5 18 volt
>>>> Hammer/Drill/Driver compared to the Ridgid Gen 5 18 volt
>>>> Drill/Driver the torque specs are 700 and 650 respectively.
>>>> Now if he is using a more powerful class hammer drill compared
>>>> to the his impact there certainly could be a world of
>>>> difference.
>>>
>>> Sorry, I don't consider Ridgid, particularly the stuff sold at
>>> HD, to be the gold standard of power tools.
>>
>> I'm extremely pleased with my Ridgid cordless tools and I keep
>> buying more. Their newer generation is much better than previous
>> ones.
>
> I didn't mean that they were junk, only that extrapolating the
> torque of a hammer-driver to a drill, based on one example isn't
> useful.
>>
>> I've tried just about every brand out there and they are all about
>> the same quality and performance for the price. There's not much
>> difference, anymore, between all the high end brands and Ridgid
>> sits right up there with Milwaukee and Makita, imo. I'm sure with
>> Festool's price comes a great improvement in performance.
>
> I've had many different drills and haven't found anything that I
> like better than the Bosch. Even there, each model (12V, 18V,
> impact driver, driver, drill) has its uses. None does it all. I am
> partial to the 12V units, though. They're nice an light.
Coincidentally, the only other drill I kept after going all Ridgid was
my Bosch. :-)
I really like it. I've sort of relegated it to the shop drill that
stays in the shop no matter what. The Ridgids can get strewn all over
and even stay in the van most of the time. So it's nice to have one
great drill that I know will be in its place at all times... next to its
own batts.
>> I've started to go all Ridgid for cohesiveness and for their
>> batteries. The batteries are really, really good and I love having
>> a lighted power meter on each one that tells you how much charge it
>> has. The lifetime free replacement thing is a bonus, however, my
>> oldest batteries are operating as good as my new ones. There's a
>> reason they offer such a great warranty and it's due in part to the
>> batteries being such good quality.
>
> LiIon has a lot to do with that. I've only lost a couple of Bosch
> batteries. A couple early in their lives and one a few months ago.
> They've all been the 12V variety. I didn't worry about it too much
> because I got them cheap ($10 or so).
>
> Again, I have nothing really against Ridgid. I don't like their
> "feel" but that's 100% personal opinion.
>
Yes, the LiIon is a great technology. If and when I need to replace the
batteries, it will be nice to just get free ones in the mail and not
have to buy all new tools, which is generally what has happened in the
past.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 11/24/2016 8:41 AM, krw wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:15:04 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7-
>>> [email protected]>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
>>> says...
>>>>
>>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>>>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>>>>>> 10%.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
>>>>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
>>>>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
>>>> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
>>>> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
>>>> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
>>>> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
>>>> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
>>>> drywall driver works out.
>>>
>>> I don't find that torque is the reason for an
>>> impact driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill
>>> can provide as much torque as my impact driver.
>>> The difference is that the drill feeds the
>>> torque back into the handle, the impact driver
>>> doesn't.
>>>
>>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
>>>> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
>>>> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver and impact
>> usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by a 3 to 1 margin. On
>> my older 12 volt Makita driver and impact their we're always times that the
>> driver simply could not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15
>> volt driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with little
>> effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive a large screw and
>> stop mid way then resume at the previous speed or slower or faster. Most
>> all of my other drill/ drivers including corded required me to back the
>> screw up and have momentum going past that point. Or that required a full
>> pull on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than desirable.
>
> I have both 12V and 18V versions of the Bosch impact drivers and
> drills. The 12V are good for about 80% of the work I do and they're
> very light (easy to use over the head or under counters). The 18V
> takes care of the rest.
>>
>> Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the hammer action
>> is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some times if you tap on a
>> stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the grip.
>
> I think his point was that the hammer-drill is a beast, not that he's
> using the hammer feature for driving screws. OTOH, beasts are heavy.
Possibly but not necessarily. Hammer drills when comparing apples to
apples, at least with the Ridgid brand Gen5 18 volt Hammer/Drill/Driver
compared to the Ridgid Gen 5 18 volt Drill/Driver the torque specs are
700 and 650 respectively. Now if he is using a more powerful class
hammer drill compared to the his impact there certainly could be a world
of difference.
My son has been borrowing my Festool drill/driver and Bosch Impact a lot
lately but he does live 30 minutes away. He was using his friends
clutched corded drill for driving screws during a renovation. He
complained constantly about the problems with driving and removing
screws with that tool. Now he really really likes the cordless Festool
because of the slow speed torque.
I'm hoping that the Ridgid combo hammer drill/driver and impact will
offer the same control and torque, he is getting that for Christmas.
I figure that since he does not use the drill as much as I do that the
finer features of the Festool might not come into play for him. The
life time warranty on the Ridgid and batteries will hopefully insure
that he will get a decent amount of use from the drill regardless of how
many years that takes. ;~)
FWIW Home depot is not advertizing that the Lifetime warranty is "Your"
lifetime and not the tool's life time. That should put an end to the
question of whether the tool is worn out from reaching it's lifetime limit.
> One of the things I don't like about, at least some of, the Festool
> drills is that piece that comes down in front of the fingers. It
> would seem that it would constantly get in the way.
>
Yeah I did not really care for that bar, I did not really get interested
in a Festool drill until the T handle version came out.
On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 22:45:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>
>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>>> 10%.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>
>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>
>
>I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
>for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
>for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
>I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
>as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
>eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
>drywall driver works out.
I never run out of torque on a driver. I like impact drivers because
they don't tear up heads and will back out screws with buggered up
heads.
I may get around to using it this weekend. I have some repair to do
upstairs (electrician are holes in the kitchen to run "new" can lights
and we had a leak on one bedroom.
>
>The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
>and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
>few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>
Cordless is its big attraction. However, I really don't use a jigsaw
very much. Mostly for inside cuts. I don't have a BS yet (sheetrock
comes first), so it's the only thing I have to make curvy cuts, too.
On 11/24/2016 8:34 AM, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 22:45:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>
>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>>>> 10%.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>
>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
>>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
>>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>
>>
>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
>> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
>> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
>> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
>> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
>> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
>> drywall driver works out.
>
> I never run out of torque on a driver. I like impact drivers because
> they don't tear up heads and will back out screws with buggered up
> heads.
Well that just may be testament to how much driver /drills have improved
then. My older 12 volt Makita, even when new, could not drive anything
near what my 15 volt Festool drill can do. The Makita impact was a
necessity to drive some larger/longer screws especially the 5/16" lag
screws.
>
> I may get around to using it this weekend. I have some repair to do
> upstairs (electrician are holes in the kitchen to run "new" can lights
> and we had a leak on one bedroom.
>>
>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
>> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
>> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>
> Cordless is its big attraction. However, I really don't use a jigsaw
> very much. Mostly for inside cuts. I don't have a BS yet (sheetrock
> comes first), so it's the only thing I have to make curvy cuts, too.
A BS is hard to beat when resawing but FWIW until I stepped up to a
Laguna I more often opted for my Milwaukee jig saw over my Craftsman and
Rikon band saw.
For me there is something about just being to go over to the BS set the
blade tension and go, I do not leave tension on the blade at the end of
the day, and with the Laguna tension is not a particular magical sweet spot.
I never had that luxury with either of the other band saws. Guides
and tension always had to be fiddled with, with the same blade.
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 10:07:03 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/24/2016 8:34 AM, krw wrote:
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 22:45:45 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>>>>> 10%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>
>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
>>>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
>>>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
>>> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
>>> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
>>> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
>>> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
>>> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
>>> drywall driver works out.
>>
>> I never run out of torque on a driver. I like impact drivers because
>> they don't tear up heads and will back out screws with buggered up
>> heads.
>
>Well that just may be testament to how much driver /drills have improved
>then. My older 12 volt Makita, even when new, could not drive anything
>near what my 15 volt Festool drill can do. The Makita impact was a
>necessity to drive some larger/longer screws especially the 5/16" lag
>screws.
Sure, I had a 9.6/12V Makita, too. By today's standards it was really
wimpy. The 18V drills are much better. I'm not thrilled with
non-impact drivers, though. They're great for machine screws. ;-)
>
>
>
>>
>> I may get around to using it this weekend. I have some repair to do
>> upstairs (electrician are holes in the kitchen to run "new" can lights
>> and we had a leak on one bedroom.
>>>
>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
>>> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
>>> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>>
>> Cordless is its big attraction. However, I really don't use a jigsaw
>> very much. Mostly for inside cuts. I don't have a BS yet (sheetrock
>> comes first), so it's the only thing I have to make curvy cuts, too.
>
>A BS is hard to beat when resawing but FWIW until I stepped up to a
>Laguna I more often opted for my Milwaukee jig saw over my Craftsman and
>Rikon band saw.
I'll buy one but I have a lot of work to do on my shop first. I have
a whole basement but it's completely unfinished. I need a place to
put it.
>
>For me there is something about just being to go over to the BS set the
>blade tension and go, I do not leave tension on the blade at the end of
>the day, and with the Laguna tension is not a particular magical sweet spot.
> I never had that luxury with either of the other band saws. Guides
>and tension always had to be fiddled with, with the same blade.
I've had my eye on a 14-SUV for a long time. I've told SWMBO that
it's on the list, so she won't be surprised. ;-)
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 08:15:04 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In article <x-CdnRBL9s4d7avFnZ2dnUU7-
>> [email protected]>, lcb11211@swbelldotnet
>> says...
>>>
>>> On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>>>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>>>>> 10%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>>>>
>>>> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
>>>> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
>>>> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
>>> for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
>>> for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
>>> I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
>>> as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
>>> eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
>>> drywall driver works out.
>>
>> I don't find that torque is the reason for an
>> impact driver--I'm pretty sure my hammerdrill
>> can provide as much torque as my impact driver.
>> The difference is that the drill feeds the
>> torque back into the handle, the impact driver
>> doesn't.
>>
>>> The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
>>> and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
>>> few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Well from this stand point. The commonly matched set of driver and impact
>usually gives the torque advantage to the impact by a 3 to 1 margin. On
>my older 12 volt Makita driver and impact their we're always times that the
>driver simply could not drive a large screw or lag screw. The Festool 15
>volt driver cab sink lag screws and long #10 deck screws with little
>effort. Anyway I can relatively quickly or slowly drive a large screw and
>stop mid way then resume at the previous speed or slower or faster. Most
>all of my other drill/ drivers including corded required me to back the
>screw up and have momentum going past that point. Or that required a full
>pull on the trigger to proceed often with more speed than desirable.
I have both 12V and 18V versions of the Bosch impact drivers and
drills. The 12V are good for about 80% of the work I do and they're
very light (easy to use over the head or under counters). The 18V
takes care of the rest.
>
>Concerning your hammer drill, i would venture to say that the hammer action
>is not adding torque so much as vibration. Some times if you tap on a
>stuck nut or bolt it will loosen the grip.
I think his point was that the hammer-drill is a beast, not that he's
using the hammer feature for driving screws. OTOH, beasts are heavy.
One of the things I don't like about, at least some of, the Festool
drills is that piece that comes down in front of the fingers. It
would seem that it would constantly get in the way.
On 11/22/16 10:45 AM, Leon wrote:
> Be careful with the name of that sand paper, the light blue paper is not
> Garnet, it is Granat. The Granat paper literally lasts 10 times longer
> than the Rubin paper that I used to use. And the Rubin was better than
> I had precious used.
>
Doh! I was spelling from memory, "Granat" is correct.
>>
>>
>> The ROS one of my most used power hand tools, I think this was $200 well
>> spent. At least I have a year to decide if/what the $50 voucher will be
>> used on (probably for "system" accessories that no Festool user would be
>> seen without 8^).
>>
>> -BR
>
> $200?
Heh, CRS disease! I was thinking $199 (regular price), I paid the $99
"Intro" price. Still more expensive at this price point than the other
5" ROSs, but it's a cut above in so many ways. I've been itching for a
right angle 6" to augment my belt sander for the rough hogging out of
slabs and the Rotex would seem to fill in the gap between the belt
sander and the 5" ROS with its multiple "modes"
-BR
On Thu, 24 Nov 2016 10:14:39 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 11/24/2016 9:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> FWIW Home depot is not advertizing that the Lifetime warranty is "Your"
>> lifetime and not the tool's life time. That should put an end to the
>> question of whether the tool is worn out from reaching it's lifetime limit.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>Crap!
>
> > FWIW Home depot is NOW advertising that the Lifetime warranty is
>"Your" lifetime and not the tool's life time.
Guess they're only for younger woodworkers. ;-)
On 11/23/16 7:03 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 22, 2016 at 10:59:49 AM UTC-5, Brewster wrote:
>> Well I've been using the new sander for a few weeks and I have to say,
>> Festool makes some nice stuff! There prices still scare the leather off
>> of my wallet, but the "little" things this sander does puts the rich
>> Corinthian leather back into my old pick-em-up truck!
>>
>> I've used a Porter Cable 333VS 5" ROS for many years. I like it, but
>> most annoying is waiting for the thing to stop after switching it off.
>> The pro-5 stops nearly instantly (a slight lag on startup that is
>> slightly off putting, but I'll deal with it).
>>
>
> One of the features of that tool is listed as "soft-start", which
> eliminates the high torque at startup. Is that what you are referring
> to as the "slight lag on startup"?
No, this is a lot like the delayed start that some LED lights have. You
flip the switch and there is a short (fraction of a second) delay before
the sander begins to spin up. I have no issued with starting/stopping
the sander while in contact with the wood whereas my older ROS would
leave nasty swirl scratches if I did that.
>
> I don't have a ROS. Do they typically have a high startup torque?
I'm sure they all act differently, but my PC would hit full speed the
moment the power was switched. I got used to this but the spin down time
was getting old. The Festool spins down to a stop very quickly. I'm
guessing that this sander is brushless so a more advanced breaking
circuit is possible.
>
> My PC router doesn't have soft-start but my Rocky 30 trim router does. I
> like it.
My PC router has the soft start which is nice, but this model apparently
has failures in that circuit. I'm dreading the day mine fails. My
Miluakee and Bosch Colt also do that, I can't imaging using a multi-HP
router and big bit without that feature.
-BR
>
On 11/24/16 8:10 AM, Leon wrote:
>
> Yes by the nature of how the impact operates you get a lot less feed
> back through the handle but there is a significant increase in torque
> which will break screws/bolts loose that a common driver will not.
> So for you the advantage of no feed back is a valid point, for me the
> added torque is/was the advantage. But moving from that stand point,
> the impact noise is a disadvantage especially in confined spaces.
I see some of the new impact cordless drivers now use oil instead of a
hammer/anvil approach. Supposedly greatly reduces the noise.
>
> In my younger days and working in the automotive industry impact
> wrenches were an absolute necessity. I can't tell you how many times I
> used one. To the unknowing the 3/4" drive impacts that we used to
> remove 19 wheeler wheels was intimidating. It was often mentioned that
> you should hold on for your life. Weighing in at about 135lbs back then
> I joyed in using that impact over a 5' breaker bar.
>
Back in my gear head days, the air-impact driver was a godsend. Nothing
worse than removing rusty nuts on leaf spring U-bolts where there is
several inches of threads to back a stubborn nut over. Also great for
quick tear down of engines (head bolts especially). Didn't use for
reassembly of course. I always lusted after one of those 3/4" monsters
(based on the claimed torque capacity), but the mass was indeed
intimidating.
-BR
On 11/23/16 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 11/23/2016 9:37 AM, Brewster wrote:
>> No, this is a lot like the delayed start that some LED lights have. You
>> flip the switch and there is a short (fraction of a second) delay before
>> the sander begins to spin up. I have no issued with starting/stopping
>> the sander while in contact with the wood whereas my older ROS would
>> leave nasty swirl scratches if I did that.
>
> Mine has a slight delayed start too. If yours has the feature that lets
> you prevent the sander from starting with out a dust collection hose
> attached this may be the delay. My sander has the option of defeating
> that feature if you want.
>
That makes sense.
I'd love to override it, but I didn't see any obvious way. Is there a
hidden switch?
-BR
On 11/24/16 9:24 AM, Leon wrote:
>
> If yours indeed has the capability to override that feature it should be
> in the manual. IIRC I had to do a sequence of power button pushes for a
> certain amount of time to override. The blinking green light would
> indicate the state the tool would be changed to.
>
> I will say that over riding may or may not speed up the process, the
> sander may go through the check sequence with each start up. I always
> start my sander before placing it on the wood so the slight delay is not
> an issue for me. It does take some getting used to though, I would some
> times press the switch again thinking that I had not pressed it far enough.
Ok, I guess not. No LED, power is a toggle.
-BR
On 11/24/16 8:55 AM, Leon wrote:
> FWIW Home depot is not advertizing that the Lifetime warranty is "Your"
> lifetime and not the tool's life time. That should put an end to the
> question of whether the tool is worn out from reaching it's lifetime limit.
>
>
>
>A buddy has taken advantage, twice, of that warranty. Registration is
critical, and he had to take it to a "qualified" repair center, no
exchanges at the store. Quite a hassle since he was without the tool for
several weeks (they didn't stock the batteries). He could have mailed it
to a service center, but then he'd have to pay for shipping.
Still a good warranty to have, just not user friendly.
-BR
On 11/24/2016 9:30 AM, Brewster wrote:
> On 11/23/16 10:55 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 11/23/2016 9:37 AM, Brewster wrote:
>
>>> No, this is a lot like the delayed start that some LED lights have. You
>>> flip the switch and there is a short (fraction of a second) delay before
>>> the sander begins to spin up. I have no issued with starting/stopping
>>> the sander while in contact with the wood whereas my older ROS would
>>> leave nasty swirl scratches if I did that.
>>
>> Mine has a slight delayed start too. If yours has the feature that lets
>> you prevent the sander from starting with out a dust collection hose
>> attached this may be the delay. My sander has the option of defeating
>> that feature if you want.
>>
>
> That makes sense.
>
> I'd love to override it, but I didn't see any obvious way. Is there a
> hidden switch?
>
> -BR
If yours indeed has the capability to override that feature it should be
in the manual. IIRC I had to do a sequence of power button pushes for a
certain amount of time to override. The blinking green light would
indicate the state the tool would be changed to.
I will say that over riding may or may not speed up the process, the
sander may go through the check sequence with each start up. I always
start my sander before placing it on the wood so the slight delay is not
an issue for me. It does take some getting used to though, I would some
times press the switch again thinking that I had not pressed it far enough.
On 11/23/2016 7:57 PM, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 11:59:58 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>>>> accessories.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>>>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>>>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>>>
>>> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
>>> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
>>> 10%.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Do you have a Festool drill also?
>
> No, I like my Bosch drivers (I have a pile of them - tools are cheaper
> than batteries). The screw gun is my only cordless Festool. I'm
> looking at a Carvex but I still like my Bosch (corded).
>
I have had the T15-3 for about 4 years. That drill has replace my need
for an impact driver, the Makita. I do have a Bosch impact that I got
for free several years ago and I use it as a back up drill mostly.
I do not know if it is common for todays Li-Ion brushless drills to have
as much torque as my Festool drill but I am surprised that it
eliminated the need for an impact 95% of the time. Let us know how that
drywall driver works out.
The Carvex is pretty cool but like you I am fond of my Milwaukee jigsaw
and I don't use it much except for rough cutting boards to length and a
few other cuts that would be hard to perform with a BS or TS.
On 11/23/2016 11:51 AM, krw wrote:
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2016 08:28:54 -0700, Brewster <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 11/22/16 12:16 PM, krw wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I believe the "voucher" has to be used on another power tool, not
>>> accessories.
>>>
>>
>> Correct, I've been considering portable dust collection, AKA small
>> vacuum as an accessory, though $50 amounts to little more than a 10-15%
>> discount (basically FesToolBait).
>
> I used mine on the new sheetrock screw gun. I have a *lot* of
> sheetrock to hang over the next <mumble> years. Again, it was only
> 10%.
>
>
Do you have a Festool drill also?