State Surplus Auction has, what looks like, a 16" Northfield jointer availa=
ble. A few issues are evident. =20
Auction pic, page 139. https://www.doa.la.gov/lpaa/auction/Inside%20Picture=
s%20April%202019.pdf
Comparative OWWM pic - http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?i=
d=3D2527
As per this restoration, single phase replacement motors are available, if =
need be.
For a good while I've wanted a large jointer, but lately I've had second th=
oughts. I've had a few fairly serious medical issues, lately, so not sure=
I'll be as active a woodworker anymore. Still, I kinna have a mind to re=
scue this machine, if it sells for cheap. Maybe a nephew will help get it=
running, if bought.
I've chatted with other woodworkers at the auction, before. Nearly every a=
uction has an assortment of machines for sale. I'm sure they are aware of=
it being available. Someone will surely rescue it.
Sonny
On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:59:38 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> Uh-Oh :-(
>=20
> I hope this all works out for you. Keep us informed. Intriguing to say th=
e
> least.
>=20
Spoke to Jeff a bit ago. For transport (reducing the weight), I can remove=
the infeed table's top itself (6 bolts attachment), without removing the t=
op's movable (pattern maker aspect) base. The out feed table will be easy=
to remove. With this weight reduction, I can load the bulk of the jointer=
on my smaller trailer.... parts & pieces in the back of my truck.
Jeff states, again, to bolt the base (feet) to 2X8s or 2X10s with 1/2" carr=
iage bolts, to stabilize it on the trailer.... plus the strapping down acro=
ss the legs' bases, not on the table's aspects. Lift it by the body, i.e.=
, inside each leg and on each side of the (central) dust chute.
Seems easy enough.
Sonny
I think I found the picture for your jointer. But it seems to me the peopl=
e who buy and restore those machines are doing it for the nostalgia or for =
the "fun" of restoring it. Not to actually use it. I think anyone who nee=
ds or wants a wide jointer to make money just buys one and uses it to make =
money. When you add in the depreciation deduction against revenue you can =
actually make money buying and using one now in your business. If it takes=
five years to restore a jointer, you miss five years of profits that you a=
re not making with the restored jointer.
On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 2:38:41 AM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> Considering that the list price of a 16" Northfield jointer is around
> $20,000, you officially suck very much.
This is not a new jointer by a long shot, so the value is nothing near $20k=
. It has some issues, but is seems the bones of the machine are in good s=
hape. I had 3 hours of inspection before the bidding began.
Many of the items at the State auction go for pretty cheap. The Powermati=
c bandsaw, page 130, went for $175; The Rockwell bandsaw, page 137, went f=
or $125; The Lathe and planer, page 131, went for $75 and $150 respectiv=
ely.=20
They all need some work, for functioning, but I think those prices are pre=
tty good for someone willing to repair the machines.
Not many people are in the market for these sorts of machines. In the pas=
t, these sorts of machines come up a few times a year, so dedicated buyers =
have filled their bill of tools, as this. I had never seen a large jointe=
r come up for sale in the many years I've viewed the sales. I'm on their =
mailing list for auction notification and viewing the pics and I suppose ot=
hers are on the mailing list, also. Since this is a rarely available item=
, I thought there would be more bidders eager to have it. Maybe the fowl =
weather kept folks away.=20
I'll know more about its age when I hear back from the Northfield tech, re:=
the serial number. Since the auction pic was taken, a few more big iron =
pieces/items were placed on the jointer. I'm not sure these are part and =
party to the jointer. I'd like to think one might be the knife grinder.
Sonny
On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 2:33:56 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Adjusted for inflation, that's a $22,000 jointer..... Pretty much
> out of the class of Rockwell/Delta or Powermatic tools; and not suprising
> that they still support them.
This machine has issues, so its value is much lower than a functioning mach=
ine. I'll have to do some repairs, hopefully not major, and lots of cleani=
ng, probably some adjusting of stuff, also, maybe. I need to "learn" the =
machine to figure out what needs tuning up, etc., if need be. I'm not fam=
iliar with this caliber of machine, but I'll learn.
For the time being, I searched for specs as to the machine's footprint, to =
drill holes in the 2X10 supports for transport. Didn't find specs, but fou=
nd this video about Northfield. I'm impressed. I think I, now, know what=
Jeff looks like, should I need to contact him, again. Putting a face to =
a voice is nice. He obviously knows his stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dz59Kp8SbbfM
Sonny
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 8:37:01 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> You suck!
>
> Pictures please.
There's a pic from the State's auction website, page 139 on the first post's link, but here again. Don't know how long these pics will remain on the State's site.
https://www.doa.la.gov/lpaa/auction/Inside%20Pictures%20April%202019.pdf
Sonny
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 4:26:51 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
=20
> Are *they* insured for damage caused while lifting/loading? I assume it=
=20
> wouldn't be for the real value of the unit, maybe not even for the price=
=20
> you paid for it. Certainly wouldn't include the time you've expended so f=
ar.
I doubt the State is specifically insured for the items at these types of s=
ales. There may be some insurance coverage if someone got hurt and no fau=
lt of their own. I assess the situation as walking into a government build=
ing, there's no special insurance required for visiting a government buildi=
ng. It's as if items are sold as is where is and there's no challenging a =
defect in the item or the handling of it. It's "understood", by me at lea=
st, that the folks are there to help and I think they do a very good job. =
I've never seen or heard of any incident at the State auction. Buyers ar=
e courteous, also.
As for as the items, the guys really go out of their way to be careful and =
are really helpful in every aspect of the sales. I view it as, when you ag=
ree to allow them to help (ask for their help), you, in essence, waive any =
fault that may occur.
IRS auctions (locations!!!!) are a different story. It's the companies pr=
operty that one visits, so the companies have to protect themselves.
Sonny
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Sonny <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750 plus 15% buyers premium.
>
>After inspecting it, I thought it would sell for at least $1500 and maybe go as high as $1800-2K for big-time woodworkers or collectors. I had planned on bidding $500 max, thinking several folks would run up the bidding. After my $350 bid, only I and one other remained bidding. He was hesitant each of his bids, so I thought he'd quit soon, which he did.
>
>I'll go collect it Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday.
Considering that the list price of a 16" Northfield jointer is around
$20,000, you officially suck very much.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2019 13:09:13 +0000, Spalted Walt
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 2:33:56 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> > Adjusted for inflation, that's a $22,000 jointer..... Pretty much
>> > out of the class of Rockwell/Delta or Powermatic tools; and not suprising
>> > that they still support them.
>>
>> This machine has issues, so its value is much lower than a functioning machine. I'll have to do some repairs, hopefully not major, and lots of cleaning, probably some adjusting of stuff, also, maybe. I need to "learn" the machine to figure out what needs tuning up, etc., if need be. I'm not familiar with this caliber of machine, but I'll learn.
>>
>> For the time being, I searched for specs as to the machine's footprint, to drill holes in the 2X10 supports for transport. Didn't find specs, but found this video about Northfield. I'm impressed. I think I, now, know what Jeff looks like, should I need to contact him, again. Putting a face to a voice is nice. He obviously knows his stuff.
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z59Kp8SbbfM
>>
>> Sonny
>
><https://www.youtube.com/embed/z59Kp8SbbfM?autoplay=1&start=400&end=458>
>In the last seconds of the above clip Jeff says: "If you don't have a
>pattern shop, don't buy one." So, is a 'pattern makers jointer' ONLY
>for _angled_ jointing and is incapable of true 90deg edge jointing?
It's not that so much that apparently getting it square can be fiddly.
Here's post that goes into more detail on its tricks
<https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?26671-quot-pattermakers-quot-jointer>.
On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 3:18:51 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
=20
> Keep us posted...love the details!
Email reply from Northfield tech:
S/N 74498-B is a Northfield 16=E2=80=9D HD Patternmakers Jointer, w/ 7.5HP =
Direct Motor Drive, 4-Knife Head, Hand Brake, Switch on Brake, 110 volt at =
PushButton, Table Locks, Front & Rear Guards & Two-way Tilting Fence. It l=
eft our plant on Jan 16, 1976 & shipped to The Thiocol Corp, ammo plant in =
Doyline, LA. It originally sold for $4,873.00 & we have not heard from it =
until now.
The fact that this is a Patternmaker poses problems for Infeed Table Remove=
.
Please call me & we can discuss it;
Regards
Jeff Machacek
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 8:59:33 PM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 5:11:03 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
> > Oh, and to further answer a previous question....
> >
> > Unloading shouldn't be a problem, with forks on the tractor and an engine hoist for parts during repair, assembly.
> >
> > Sonny
>
> You know you will have to put one of those helical cutter heads in this
> jointer. Might as well do it while you are disassembling, cleaning,
> rehabilitating the machine. Ka-ching!!!! Add another $1000+ to the cost.
> The Byrd site says the generic 12" jointer head is $920. But you have a
> 16" jointer.
Sonny,
Save your money. Instead of a helical cutter head, just get one of these
and cut it to size. Shop time will be so relaxing. ;-)
https://i.imgur.com/S4xl5qQ.jpg
On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 9:34:57 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
> On 4/13/2019 2:29 PM, Sonny wrote:
> > I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750 plus 15% buyers premium.
> ...
>
> Kewl! The thing I left behind in TN have regretted the most is the 12"
> Crescent and access to a 16" Oliver...
>
> I did pick up a PM180 18" planer a couple years ago for that end of
> things and the 8" Rockwell is fine, up to the point of what it can
> handle....
>
> I would part with the old Rockwell/Delta 13" industrial planer (not
> lunchbox; "real iron") if anybody were interested...I had intended to
> try to sell it locally but never got the round tuit to list it anywhere
> or even call in the local AM "Radio-Bay" morning call-in show...
>
> --
Here you go...you have no excuses now.
https://heavenlyhomemakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/roudtuitsm.jpg
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:23:27 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>=20
> What does "collect it" mean? In other words, how are you going to get
> that monster home and eventually to it's final resting place?
I didn't expect to win the bid, but I wanted to attend the sale. I wasn't=
prepared to bring it home, besides, I have 3 days to go get it.
As you, I was curious enough about the machine to call Northfield and ask a=
bout disassembling the tables, for easy of transport. The tech told me how=
to disassemble them. He told me how to properly strap, lift and haul the=
machine with the tables still attached. You don't want to lift it by stra=
pping the tables. He asked that I send him the serial number and he'd give =
me details of the machine.
The tag on the machine indicated it came from a military base, so I'm suppo=
sing the military was the original owner.
>=20
> Do you need a COI to remove it from the premises? How much will that cost=
?
No ins required. They have forklifts to haul anything folks need heavy ha=
uling for and they load for you. I'm responsible for tying down my load. =
I spoke to a forklift driver about specific strapping and hauling and he sa=
id there's no problem accommodating me. Since I'm likely to need to disas=
semble some parts for cleaning and maybe some repair, I might as well disas=
semble the tables, there, making things easier to load and later unload. =
I'll copy OWWM parts list for when I disassemble it, just in case.
>=20
> Just curious, that's all.
Curiosity is fun, too.
Sonny
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:29:42 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750 plus 15% =
buyers premium.
>=20
> After inspecting it, I thought it would sell for at least $1500 and maybe=
go as high as $1800-2K for big-time woodworkers or collectors. I had pla=
nned on bidding $500 max, thinking several folks would run up the bidding. =
After my $350 bid, only I and one other remained bidding. He was hesita=
nt each of his bids, so I thought he'd quit soon, which he did.
>=20
> I'll go collect it Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday.
>=20
> Sonny
What does "collect it" mean? In other words, how are you going to get
that monster home and eventually to it's final resting place?
Do you need a COI to remove it from the premises? How much will that cost?
Just curious, that's all.
dpb <[email protected]> writes:
>On 4/15/2019 11:15 AM, Sonny wrote:
>> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:59:38 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>> Uh-Oh :-(
>>>
>>> I hope this all works out for you. Keep us informed. Intriguing to say the
>>> least.
>>>
>> Spoke to Jeff a bit ago. For transport (reducing the weight), I can remove the infeed table's top itself (6 bolts attachment), without removing the top's movable (pattern maker aspect) base. The out feed table will be easy to remove. With this weight reduction, I can load the bulk of the jointer on my smaller trailer.... parts & pieces in the back of my truck.
>>
>> Jeff states, again, to bolt the base (feet) to 2X8s or 2X10s with 1/2" carriage bolts, to stabilize it on the trailer.... plus the strapping down across the legs' bases, not on the table's aspects. Lift it by the body, i.e., inside each leg and on each side of the (central) dust chute.
>>
>> Seems easy enough.
>
>Kewl! 7.5HP, though, not just 3.5 or 5...you have direct 3PH service or
>enough of converter to handle it already?
>
>I thought that it probably was direct drive from the picture but
>couldn't tell for certain.
>
>And, yeah, you definitely don't want to pick up except from the bottom;
>the tables aren't handles... :) Trying that will undoubtedly turn it
>into nothing but scrap iron immediately.
>
>That's totally awesome Northfield is still so responsive...makes what
>happened to Delta and to somewhat lesser extent Powermatic even more
>disappointing.
>
>I'm envious... :)
Adjusted for inflation, that's a $22,000 jointer..... Pretty much
out of the class of Rockwell/Delta or Powermatic tools; and not suprising
that they still support them.
Bill wrote:
> Sonny wrote:
>> I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750
>> plus 15% buyers premium.
> Congratulations!  : )
>
> Bill
I went looking for info on the blades (4). Here are some of the
apparent specification in case anyone would like to see them:
Technical Specifications:
240/460V, 60CY, 3PH
3 HP Motor
Knife Size: 16" x 1-1/4" x 1/8"
Blades Per Head: 4
Cutting Circle 4-1/4"
Table Dimensions: 96" x 21" x 32-1/2"
Fence: 52" x 5-1/2" x 45 Degrees
Rabbet Depth: 5/8"
I don't know what they cost, but maybe you can sharpen the
existing blades?
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 12:16:12 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> State Surplus Auction has, what looks like, a 16" Northfield jointer avai=
lable. A few issues are evident. =20
> Auction pic, page 139. https://www.doa.la.gov/lpaa/auction/Inside%20Pictu=
res%20April%202019.pdf
>=20
> Comparative OWWM pic - http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx=
?id=3D2527
> As per this restoration, single phase replacement motors are available, i=
f need be.
>=20
> For a good while I've wanted a large jointer, but lately I've had second =
thoughts. I've had a few fairly serious medical issues, lately, so not su=
re I'll be as active a woodworker anymore. Still, I kinna have a mind to =
rescue this machine, if it sells for cheap. Maybe a nephew will help get =
it running, if bought.
>=20
> I've chatted with other woodworkers at the auction, before. Nearly every=
auction has an assortment of machines for sale. I'm sure they are aware =
of it being available. Someone will surely rescue it.
>=20
> Sonny
This isn't a question of where in my shop would I put that tool,=20
it's more like where in that tool would I put my shop. ;-)
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 5:11:03 PM UTC-5, Sonny wrote:
> Oh, and to further answer a previous question....
>=20
> Unloading shouldn't be a problem, with forks on the tractor and an engine=
hoist for parts during repair, assembly.
>=20
> Sonny
You know you will have to put one of those helical cutter heads in this joi=
nter. Might as well do it while you are disassembling, cleaning, rehabilit=
ating the machine. Ka-ching!!!! Add another $1000+ to the cost. The Byrd=
site says the generic 12" jointer head is $920. But you have a 16" jointe=
r.
On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:47:35 AM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 3:18:51 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> =20
> > Keep us posted...love the details!
>=20
> Email reply from Northfield tech:
>=20
> S/N 74498-B is a Northfield 16=E2=80=9D HD Patternmakers Jointer, w/ 7.5H=
P Direct Motor Drive, 4-Knife Head, Hand Brake, Switch on Brake, 110 volt a=
t PushButton, Table Locks, Front & Rear Guards & Two-way Tilting Fence. It=
left our plant on Jan 16, 1976 & shipped to The Thiocol Corp, ammo plant i=
n Doyline, LA. It originally sold for $4,873.00 & we have not heard from i=
t until now.
ET didn't phone home? ;-)
>=20
> The fact that this is a Patternmaker poses problems for Infeed Table Remo=
ve.
> Please call me & we can discuss it;
Uh-Oh :-(
I hope this all works out for you. Keep us informed. Intriguing to say the
least.
>=20
> Regards
> Jeff Machacek
On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 4:53:57 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Saturday, April 13, 2019 at 3:23:27 PM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>=20
> >=20
> > What does "collect it" mean? In other words, how are you going to get
> > that monster home and eventually to it's final resting place?
>=20
> I didn't expect to win the bid, but I wanted to attend the sale. I wasn=
't prepared to bring it home, besides, I have 3 days to go get it.
>=20
> As you, I was curious enough about the machine to call Northfield and ask=
about disassembling the tables, for easy of transport. The tech told me h=
ow to disassemble them. He told me how to properly strap, lift and haul t=
he machine with the tables still attached. You don't want to lift it by st=
rapping the tables. He asked that I send him the serial number and he'd giv=
e me details of the machine.
>=20
> The tag on the machine indicated it came from a military base, so I'm sup=
posing the military was the original owner.
>=20
> >=20
> > Do you need a COI to remove it from the premises? How much will that co=
st?
>=20
> No ins required. They have forklifts to haul anything folks need heavy =
hauling for and they load for you. I'm responsible for tying down my load.=
I spoke to a forklift driver about specific strapping and hauling and he =
said there's no problem accommodating me. Since I'm likely to need to dis=
assemble some parts for cleaning and maybe some repair, I might as well dis=
assemble the tables, there, making things easier to load and later unload. =
I'll copy OWWM parts list for when I disassemble it, just in case.
> >=20
> > Just curious, that's all.
>=20
> Curiosity is fun, too.
> Sonny
Are *they* insured for damage caused while lifting/loading? I assume it=20
wouldn't be for the real value of the unit, maybe not even for the price=20
you paid for it. Certainly wouldn't include the time you've expended so far=
.
Of course I'm not wishing for anything to happen, just curious (again) abou=
t
how these auctions work. The IRS auction that you posted the other day said=
this:
"Anyone removing non-hand carriable lots must provide IRS with a certificat=
e=20
of insurance (=E2=80=9CCOI=E2=80=9D) before purchased items can be removed.=
"
The minimum coverage was $2,000,000. Curious as to what that would cost.
On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 3:57:30 AM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
> > Sonny wrote:
> >> I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750=20
> >> plus 15% buyers premium.
> > Congratulations!=C2=A0=C2=A0 : )
> >=20
> > Bill
>=20
> I went looking for info on the blades (4). Here are some of the=20
> apparent specification in case anyone would like to see them:
>=20
> Technical Specifications:
> 240/460V, 60CY, 3PH
> 3 HP Motor
> Knife Size: 16" x 1-1/4" x 1/8"
> Blades Per Head: 4
> Cutting Circle 4-1/4"
> Table Dimensions: 96" x 21" x 32-1/2"
> Fence: 52" x 5-1/2" x 45 Degrees
> Rabbet Depth: 5/8"
>=20
> I don't know what they cost, but maybe you can sharpen the=20
> existing blades?
The blades presently on the jointer seem to be 12" long. I'd be hesitant t=
o use it in that improper(?) way. The owners manual states to not install=
blades of width less than 15/16". These 12" blades may be of improper wi=
dth, as well.
Sonny
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 10:16:12 AM UTC-6, Sonny wrote:
> State Surplus Auction has, what looks like, a 16" Northfield jointer avai=
lable. A few issues are evident. =20
> Auction pic, page 139. https://www.doa.la.gov/lpaa/auction/Inside%20Pictu=
res%20April%202019.pdf
>=20
> Comparative OWWM pic - http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx=
?id=3D2527
> As per this restoration, single phase replacement motors are available, i=
f need be.
>=20
> For a good while I've wanted a large jointer, but lately I've had second =
thoughts. I've had a few fairly serious medical issues, lately, so not su=
re I'll be as active a woodworker anymore. Still, I kinna have a mind to =
rescue this machine, if it sells for cheap. Maybe a nephew will help get =
it running, if bought.
>=20
> I've chatted with other woodworkers at the auction, before. Nearly every=
auction has an assortment of machines for sale. I'm sure they are aware =
of it being available. Someone will surely rescue it.
>=20
> Sonny
We have one of these working everyday at Santa Fe Community College in the =
Fine Arts woodworking shop/classroom. It even has a helix cutter head. Grea=
t Machine
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 8:42:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> I think anyone who needs or wants a wide jointer to make money just buys=
one and uses it to make money.=20
I wanted one for some of my large hobby projects. Now and then, it would b=
e convenient to joint wide boards, rather than have a pro shop do the job. =
Having the means, space and large cache of salvaged lumber, an accommodati=
ng large machine is a gift for oneself. I rarely sell any project or do on=
e for a fee. I've mostly keep and use them or do them for friends, relati=
ves or fund raiser type events.
For many my projects I've used the 8" for some aspect of the work, if a han=
d plane wasn't more convenient. I like using "old" hand tools/techniques, =
as often as I can, as well. A nice old large jointer has/had simply been o=
n my wish list, in tune with my "old tool" mind set and would, at times, be=
put to practical use, also.
Sonny
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 9:29:28 PM UTC-5, J. Clarke wrote:
> From the looks of the rest of that auction, you might want to be
> prepared to sanitize that puppy _real_ good. Looks like a hospital,
> clinic, or biology lab of some kind.
The items at the auction come from all State Govt offices/agencies, propert=
y, etc. There's always a wide variety of items. There's an auction every=
second Saturday of each month, always 100+ pages of listed items. Lots o=
f the same folks go to the sales.
As best I can determine, it takes a few months for the process of an item t=
o be tagged for surplus, then onward to the sale. By that time, any hospi=
tal bug would no longer be a threat. I'd suspect one would more likely to =
get a dangerous bug from the diverse crowd at the sale, rather than from an=
item.
The State provides a convenient pre-sale listing, so folks can look and pla=
n a day at the auction, if they see something they like. The booklet doesn=
't give a detailed description of an item, hence the inspection days. The =
tools usually come up for bidding just before or right after "lunch-time", =
so you can go mid-morning and have plenty of time to do an inspection, rath=
er than on designated inspection days. *There is no pause or lunch break f=
or the auctioning.
https://www.doa.la.gov/Pages/lpaa/auctionlisting.aspx
LOL. There's been times when no one wants an item, no one bids on it. Wh=
at is done is, they add that item to the next item up for bids. That's th=
eir way of getting rid of all the items, whether anyone wants it or not. =
They go fast! The selling process goes on indoors, for inside items, and =
outdoors, for the outside items.... both at the same time. The selling is =
fast going, to have all thing sold by mid afternoon.
Sonny
I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750 plus 15% bu=
yers premium.
After inspecting it, I thought it would sell for at least $1500 and maybe g=
o as high as $1800-2K for big-time woodworkers or collectors. I had plann=
ed on bidding $500 max, thinking several folks would run up the bidding. =
After my $350 bid, only I and one other remained bidding. He was hesitant=
each of his bids, so I thought he'd quit soon, which he did.
I'll go collect it Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday.
Sonny
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 9:46:17 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> Be kewl to see...have you done search on the OWWM site to see if any=20
> others been posted for the particular model? I know there are ones out=
=20
> there, didn't check specifically for the pattern makers version.
About the only thing I looked for and studied was the parts manual, for dis=
assembly yesterday. I might post pics, comments, etc. to OWWM, later. The=
parts pdf on OWWM has the right edge of the pages clipped off... can't rea=
d all of it. I'll likely order a manual from Northield - $30 + shipping.
You might notice the strapping (red ratchet and a rope) around the infeed t=
able (on the trailer). I had loosened something, can't recall, and that t=
able top moves a bit. I tied it steady for transport, will look into that =
looseness, later. I'm puzzled by that looseness. I did turn the raise/l=
ower wheel, to see how the table assembly moves (smoothly). I may have not=
snugged the locking knob.
>=20
> Most of those things sound mostly cosmetic altho the broken handwheel is=
=20
> so obvious that while it still works it just isn't pleasing...
>=20
> So, did you get any real surprises like there being a knife grinder=20
> attachment or the like? :)
It's not the grinder. There's another big piece of iron with gear teeth. =
Have no idea what this is, but has a similar yellow wheel/crank/round tuit=
. It looks like some kind of fence (about 30" long, attachment to table s=
imilar to the fence, heavy as heck). May not be for the jointer, though(?)=
. I'll take pics.
The outfeed table is hinged to its incline block, 3 screws per hinge. Remo=
ve the screws and the top comes off. There are locking knobs at each hinge=
site. Page 17 of this pdf, lower pic, item #9 is the locking knob. A scr=
ew is shown each side of the knob, the knob hides the center screw. This t=
op swings up and sideways, i.e., easy access for maintenance/cleaning on th=
e inside. There are locking knobs on the other side/edge, also.
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/601/15200.pdf
Hinge pics and forklift driver, 3 pics, scroll right. Driver was very pat=
ient and accommodating with lifting, loading, as per my directions. I'll =
send a message to LPAA folks in appreciation of his efforts. The pic shows=
the jointer lifted, for my installing 2X10 "foot pads".
https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/47630055981/in/dateposted-public=
/
Just got feedback from Jeff (Northfield). I registered the jointer with No=
rthfield. He wants pics. Will take better pics with camera, rather than p=
hone. Jeff is prompt, eager to assist, +10. Probably by next week, or so,=
will have info about replacement parts, questions and other issues I want =
to send him.
Sonny
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 8:06:23 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> Ended up renting a pallet mover because the barn is too low to get
> anything any bigger inside...hopefully your shop lets something inside.
Probably won't go into the wood shop for a good while. Need to check everything out to get it in running shape. The barn has storage accommodations for the time being.
A few things/parts are broken, like a hand wheel, motor end cover, a spring loaded gadget on the side of a table. Dust chute needs some screws. I'll take pics and send to Northfield, get some prices and probably more advice.
The paint looks good, only dirty... dirt on the interior, also. Table tops look good, only surface rust on about half the surfaces. Seems the machine was under cover, not open to any weather.
I suspect the broken parts were broken recently, otherwise they would have been discarded long ago, maybe.
Sonny
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 9:03:08 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 12:29:55 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>=20
> > You be gone already, but...be careful!!! :)
>=20
> Thanks. Always cautious using the single axle trailer. A flat can flip =
the trailer. I drove much slower than the traffic.
>=20
> Took about 2 hours to disassemble some parts, then loaded on the trailer =
in the hot 80=C2=B0 sun. Secured the 2x10 foot pads to the trailer, then d=
rove out their gate under the Miss. R. bridge (in the shade) to strap down.
>=20
> I'll probably leave it on trailer until after Easter.
>=20
> 2 Pics under bridge, scroll right. https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836=
144@N04/46901595744/in/dateposted-public/
>=20
> Sonny
No pictures of you putting air in those tires? ;-)
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 8:25:11 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> That this one happens to be is an extra bonus
> for collectable whether Sonny will ever find a use for the feature or not.
I don't and won't do production work. The machine was available, cheap, so I snapped it up. I'll likely rarely use it, except for simply surfacing, no pattern making. I'll likely set it at a permanent minimum cut and leave it at that setting.
I'm leaving now to go get it.
Sonny
On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 12:36:40 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> Did you get (maybe it was in earlier data but I don't recall it) a
> weight on the beast from Northfield?
Didn't get that info from Jeff, but did via this chart on their website. 1825 lbs.
http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/jointers/heavy.htm
Sonny
More info from Jeff, after receiving my pics. He wanted pics to verify (R=
egistration) this machine. He replied,=20
" ref: S/N 74498-B
It is definitely a patternmaker=E2=80=99s jointer, and it even has a spring=
joint attachment."
(Arms tossed in air) I don't know what the spring joint attachment is, but=
I got it. LOL.
A: 12-111 table Lock Knob DK -6 $12.00
B: Unable to identify Knob with broken casting.
*this (above) piece/part is probably for some other non-Northfield machine =
at the auction.
C: Replace the JA-28 fork casting $116.00
D: Try welding the aluminum shield (cutter head guard).
=20
Sonny
On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 12:29:55 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> You be gone already, but...be careful!!! :)
Thanks. Always cautious using the single axle trailer. A flat can flip th=
e trailer. I drove much slower than the traffic.
Took about 2 hours to disassemble some parts, then loaded on the trailer in=
the hot 80=C2=B0 sun. Secured the 2x10 foot pads to the trailer, then dro=
ve out their gate under the Miss. R. bridge (in the shade) to strap down.
I'll probably leave it on trailer until after Easter.
2 Pics under bridge, scroll right. https://www.flickr.com/photos/4383614=
4@N04/46901595744/in/dateposted-public/
Sonny
Sonny <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 2:33:56 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Adjusted for inflation, that's a $22,000 jointer..... Pretty much
> > out of the class of Rockwell/Delta or Powermatic tools; and not suprising
> > that they still support them.
>
> This machine has issues, so its value is much lower than a functioning machine. I'll have to do some repairs, hopefully not major, and lots of cleaning, probably some adjusting of stuff, also, maybe. I need to "learn" the machine to figure out what needs tuning up, etc., if need be. I'm not familiar with this caliber of machine, but I'll learn.
>
> For the time being, I searched for specs as to the machine's footprint, to drill holes in the 2X10 supports for transport. Didn't find specs, but found this video about Northfield. I'm impressed. I think I, now, know what Jeff looks like, should I need to contact him, again. Putting a face to a voice is nice. He obviously knows his stuff.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z59Kp8SbbfM
>
> Sonny
<https://www.youtube.com/embed/z59Kp8SbbfM?autoplay=1&start=400&end=458>
In the last seconds of the above clip Jeff says: "If you don't have a
pattern shop, don't buy one." So, is a 'pattern makers jointer' ONLY
for _angled_ jointing and is incapable of true 90deg edge jointing?
On 4/16/2019 8:09 AM, Spalted Walt wrote:
...
>
> <https://www.youtube.com/embed/z59Kp8SbbfM?autoplay=1&start=400&end=458>
> In the last seconds of the above clip Jeff says: "If you don't have a
> pattern shop, don't buy one." So, is a 'pattern makers jointer' ONLY
> for _angled_ jointing and is incapable of true 90deg edge jointing?
A pattern makers jointer has a tilting infeed table mechanism (typically
+/-10 deg or so) for the draft needed for casting patterns. When the
table is set at zero draft, it operates just like any other but
obviously to produce such a beast (especially with 16" head/tables)
ain't a-gonna' be cheap. And, of course, it explains the extra
complication of removing the infeed table to ship.
What Jeff is saying is there's no need for the extra expense unless you
have the specific need. That this one happens to be is an extra bonus
for collectable whether Sonny will ever find a use for the feature or not.
--
On 4/16/2019 9:51 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 8:25:11 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>
>> That this one happens to be is an extra bonus
>> for collectable whether Sonny will ever find a use for the feature or not.
>
> I don't and won't do production work. The machine was available, cheap, so I snapped it up. I'll likely rarely use it, except for simply surfacing, no pattern making. I'll likely set it at a permanent minimum cut and leave it at that setting.
>
> I'm leaving now to go get it.
You be gone already, but...be careful!!! :)
--dpb
On 4/16/2019 8:03 PM, Sonny wrote:
> On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 12:29:55 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>
>> You be gone already, but...be careful!!! :)
>
> Thanks. Always cautious using the single axle trailer. A flat can flip the trailer. I drove much slower than the traffic.
>
> Took about 2 hours to disassemble some parts, then loaded on the trailer in the hot 80° sun. Secured the 2x10 foot pads to the trailer, then drove out their gate under the Miss. R. bridge (in the shade) to strap down.
>
> I'll probably leave it on trailer until after Easter.
>
> 2 Pics under bridge, scroll right. https://www.flickr.com/photos/43836144@N04/46901595744/in/dateposted-public/
>
Did you get (maybe it was in earlier data but I don't recall it) a
weight on the beast from Northfield?
--
On 4/17/2019 4:42 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 12:36:40 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>
>> Did you get (maybe it was in earlier data but I don't recall it) a
>> weight on the beast from Northfield?
>
> Didn't get that info from Jeff, but did via this chart on their website. 1825 lbs.
> http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/jointers/heavy.htm
>
> Sonny
I thought it might be more than that, even...that's not too bad.
My first thought w/ the PM180 planer to put it back in the back of the
barn where I wanted it was to use the little JD 955 utility tractor that
will (just) go down the driveway and the 3pt bale mover...it couldn't
pick it up. It's a little over 1600 lb and that hydraulic maxes out at
about 1000 at the link I discovered...
Ended up renting a pallet mover because the barn is too low to get
anything any bigger inside...hopefully your shop lets something inside.
--
On 4/17/2019 8:54 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 17, 2019 at 8:06:23 AM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>
>> Ended up renting a pallet mover because the barn is too low to get
>> anything any bigger inside...hopefully your shop lets something inside.
>
> Probably won't go into the wood shop for a good while. Need to check everything out to get it in running shape. The barn has storage accommodations for the time being.
>
> A few things/parts are broken, like a hand wheel, motor end cover, a spring loaded gadget on the side of a table. Dust chute needs some screws. I'll take pics and send to Northfield, get some prices and probably more advice.
>
> The paint looks good, only dirty... dirt on the interior, also. Table tops look good, only surface rust on about half the surfaces. Seems the machine was under cover, not open to any weather.
>
> I suspect the broken parts were broken recently, otherwise they would have been discarded long ago, maybe.
>
Be kewl to see...have you done search on the OWWM site to see if any
others been posted for the particular model? I know there are ones out
there, didn't check specifically for the pattern makers version.
Most of those things sound mostly cosmetic altho the broken handwheel is
so obvious that while it still works it just isn't pleasing...
So, did you get any real surprises like there being a knife grinder
attachment or the like? :)
--
On 4/17/2019 3:58 PM, Sonny wrote:
> More info from Jeff, after receiving my pics. He wanted pics to verify (Registration) this machine. He replied,
>
> " ref: S/N 74498-B
>
> It is definitely a patternmakerâs jointer, and it even has a spring joint attachment."
>
> (Arms tossed in air) I don't know what the spring joint attachment is, but I got it. LOL.
It's an adjustable cam arrangement that drops the outfeed bed slightly
so that the edge is slightly convex. The idea was to be able to apply
more compression to ends of the glue joint that was supposed to let it
(the joint) withstand faster moisture loss from the ends than the
middle...unless one were working with material at pretty high moisture
levels or very wide pieces, my personal opinion is it's more of a dream
than reality in actual practice that it would make any demonstrable
difference.
I recall once ages ago when I first heard of it trying to find any
research supporting it on the US Forest Products Lab site and failing...
Let's see...gargle, gargle...oh! Northfield actually has a very nice
datasheet--I shoulda' just looked first and posted a link instead of
typing... :)
> A: 12-111 table Lock Knob DK -6 $12.00
> B: Unable to identify Knob with broken casting.
> *this (above) piece/part is probably for some other non-Northfield machine at the auction.
> C: Replace the JA-28 fork casting $116.00
> D: Try welding the aluminum shield (cutter head guard).
"It's only money..." :)
I am still envious, though...you scored well here, indeed.
--
On 4/17/2019 6:25 PM, dpb wrote:
...
> Let's see...gargle, gargle...oh! Northfield actually has a very nice
> datasheet--I shoulda' just looked first and posted a link instead of
> typing... :)
>
...
Well, would help if I would attach the link...
http://www.northfieldwoodworking.com/TechTips/JointerSpringJointAttachments.pdf
--
On 4/17/2019 10:57 AM, Sonny wrote:
...
> You might notice the strapping (red ratchet and a rope) around the infeed table (on the trailer). I had loosened something, can't recall, and that table top moves a bit. I tied it steady for transport, will look into that looseness, later. I'm puzzled by that looseness. I did turn the raise/lower wheel, to see how the table assembly moves (smoothly). I may have not snugged the locking knob.
...
That is puzzling...just the locking knob loose shouldn't let the table
move noticeably at all--it needs to be snug enough to stay put when in
use so unless the adjusting ways are not even close to snug, that
shouldn't be the source. Then again, you say the table did raise/lower
easily, mayhaps somebody did back way off at some point because it did
get hard to move owing to regular maintenance/keeping lubricated and out
of the damp.
However, I'd guess maybe you accidentally in "loosening something"
loosened the locking mechanism for the draft tilt since it is on the
infeed side -- I have never had access to a pattern makers jointer of
any manufacturer, what more Northfield for the specific one so I'm not
sure just how that is put together and locked into position.
Wouldn't be any fun without any mysteries, though... :)
--dpb
On Sat, 13 Apr 2019 12:29:40 -0700 (PDT), Sonny <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750 plus 15% buyers premium.
>
>After inspecting it, I thought it would sell for at least $1500 and maybe go as high as $1800-2K for big-time woodworkers or collectors. I had planned on bidding $500 max, thinking several folks would run up the bidding. After my $350 bid, only I and one other remained bidding. He was hesitant each of his bids, so I thought he'd quit soon, which he did.
>
>I'll go collect it Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday.
You suck!
Pictures please.
On Sun, 14 Apr 2019 04:57:24 -0400, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>Bill wrote:
>> Sonny wrote:
>>> I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750
>>> plus 15% buyers premium.
>> Congratulations! : )
>>
>> Bill
>
>I went looking for info on the blades (4). Here are some of the
>apparent specification in case anyone would like to see them:
>
>Technical Specifications:
>240/460V, 60CY, 3PH
> 3 HP Motor
>Knife Size: 16" x 1-1/4" x 1/8"
>Blades Per Head: 4
>Cutting Circle 4-1/4"
>Table Dimensions: 96" x 21" x 32-1/2"
>Fence: 52" x 5-1/2" x 45 Degrees
>Rabbet Depth: 5/8"
>
>I don't know what they cost, but maybe you can sharpen the
>existing blades?
Amazon lists sets of three for about 20 bucks. Northfield has carbide
blades "call for price", also spiral cutterheads for a IIRC 1100
bucks.
On 4/8/2019 4:16 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 12:16:12 PM UTC-4, Sonny wrote:
>> State Surplus Auction has, what looks like, a 16" Northfield jointer available. A few issues are evident.
>> Auction pic, page 139. https://www.doa.la.gov/lpaa/auction/Inside%20Pictures%20April%202019.pdf
>>
>> Comparative OWWM pic - http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=2527
>> As per this restoration, single phase replacement motors are available, if need be.
>>
>> For a good while I've wanted a large jointer, but lately I've had second thoughts. I've had a few fairly serious medical issues, lately, so not sure I'll be as active a woodworker anymore. Still, I kinna have a mind to rescue this machine, if it sells for cheap. Maybe a nephew will help get it running, if bought.
>>
>> I've chatted with other woodworkers at the auction, before. Nearly every auction has an assortment of machines for sale. I'm sure they are aware of it being available. Someone will surely rescue it.
>>
>> Sonny
>
> This isn't a question of where in my shop would I put that tool,
> it's more like where in that tool would I put my shop. ;-)
>
Ahhh the aircraft carrier class jointer.
On Mon, 8 Apr 2019 09:16:08 -0700 (PDT), Sonny <[email protected]>
wrote:
>State Surplus Auction has, what looks like, a 16" Northfield jointer available. A few issues are evident.
>Auction pic, page 139. https://www.doa.la.gov/lpaa/auction/Inside%20Pictures%20April%202019.pdf
>
>Comparative OWWM pic - http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=2527
>As per this restoration, single phase replacement motors are available, if need be.
>
>For a good while I've wanted a large jointer, but lately I've had second thoughts. I've had a few fairly serious medical issues, lately, so not sure I'll be as active a woodworker anymore. Still, I kinna have a mind to rescue this machine, if it sells for cheap. Maybe a nephew will help get it running, if bought.
>
>I've chatted with other woodworkers at the auction, before. Nearly every auction has an assortment of machines for sale. I'm sure they are aware of it being available. Someone will surely rescue it.
From the looks of the rest of that auction, you might want to be
prepared to sanitize that puppy _real_ good. Looks like a hospital,
clinic, or biology lab of some kind.
On 4/13/2019 2:29 PM, Sonny wrote:
> I'm the proud owner of a Northfield 16HD aircraft carrier, $750 plus 15% buyers premium.
...
Kewl! The thing I left behind in TN have regretted the most is the 12"
Crescent and access to a 16" Oliver...
I did pick up a PM180 18" planer a couple years ago for that end of
things and the 8" Rockwell is fine, up to the point of what it can
handle....
I would part with the old Rockwell/Delta 13" industrial planer (not
lunchbox; "real iron") if anybody were interested...I had intended to
try to sell it locally but never got the round tuit to list it anywhere
or even call in the local AM "Radio-Bay" morning call-in show...
--
On 4/14/2019 10:24 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 3:57:30 AM UTC-5, Bill wrote:
...
>> Knife Size: 16" x 1-1/4" x 1/8"
>> Blades Per Head: 4
...
>> I don't know what they cost, but maybe you can sharpen the
>> existing blades?
...
> The blades presently on the jointer seem to be 12" long. I'd be hesitant to use it in that improper(?) way. The owners manual states to not install blades of width less than 15/16". These 12" blades may be of improper width, as well.
That's warning against sharpening them down to nothing; I doubt you
could find a new 16" knife <1".
Never hurts to check before cranking something old and unknown,
though...you already have 3P power I presume, either the real thing or a
converter.
If they are otherwise ok, I'd have no issues with running it temporarily
with only the 12" knives; just set them to the outer end of the head and
the fence to cover the rest. That way you have the use of the rabbet shelf.
That was one of the why's in the end I left the Crescent (besides that
the truck was getting full of the shop before even starting on the
household items) and there isn't any at the farm. I ended up be so
frustrated with the 13" limit on the planer w/o access to anything else
I bought a converter from Phoenix to power the PM180 and found a
throwawy 5hp DC to go with it...now I wish had the jointer to match.
Saw the note on the "other iron" added since...the guy went ahead and
threw in the knife sharpening attachment for the 180 planer gratis,
too...guess he realized chances of unloading it were rather limited
given the age of the machine and how few there would be still running
one that didn't already have...
--
On 4/14/2019 10:12 AM, Sonny wrote:
...
> Many of the items at the State auction go for pretty cheap. The Powermatic bandsaw, page 130, went for $175; The Rockwell bandsaw, page 137, went for $125; The Lathe and planer, page 131, went for $75 and $150 respectively.
> They all need some work, for functioning, but I think those prices are pretty good for someone willing to repair the machines.
That is good...
> Not many people are in the market for these sorts of machines. In the past, these sorts of machines come up a few times a year, so dedicated buyers have filled their bill of tools, as this. I had never seen a large jointer come up for sale in the many years I've viewed the sales. I'm on their mailing list for auction notification and viewing the pics and I suppose others are on the mailing list, also. Since this is a rarely available item, I thought there would be more bidders eager to have it. Maybe the fowl weather kept folks away.
They come up quite a bit in the IRS auctions or other
distressed/bankrupt sales of businesses...the Crescent actually came
from a TVA (Tenn Valley Authority) sale from one of the mothballed
construction sites.
The kicker for most individuals is the 3Ph conundrum for big-enough
stuff it really needs that size motor -- by the time you add in either
conversion route and the bulk hassle, most just kinda' wish but don't
actually bite. Newer stuff, larger more specialized sales may bring out
some small commercial shops or the like that add real interest not just
"kicking iron"...
> I'll know more about its age when I hear back from the Northfield tech, re: the serial number. Since the auction pic was taken, a few more big iron pieces/items were placed on the jointer. I'm not sure these are part and party to the jointer. I'd like to think one might be the knife grinder.
Keep us posted...love the details!
--
On 4/15/2019 11:15 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:59:38 AM UTC-5, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>> Uh-Oh :-(
>>
>> I hope this all works out for you. Keep us informed. Intriguing to say the
>> least.
>>
> Spoke to Jeff a bit ago. For transport (reducing the weight), I can remove the infeed table's top itself (6 bolts attachment), without removing the top's movable (pattern maker aspect) base. The out feed table will be easy to remove. With this weight reduction, I can load the bulk of the jointer on my smaller trailer.... parts & pieces in the back of my truck.
>
> Jeff states, again, to bolt the base (feet) to 2X8s or 2X10s with 1/2" carriage bolts, to stabilize it on the trailer.... plus the strapping down across the legs' bases, not on the table's aspects. Lift it by the body, i.e., inside each leg and on each side of the (central) dust chute.
>
> Seems easy enough.
Kewl! 7.5HP, though, not just 3.5 or 5...you have direct 3PH service or
enough of converter to handle it already?
I thought that it probably was direct drive from the picture but
couldn't tell for certain.
And, yeah, you definitely don't want to pick up except from the bottom;
the tables aren't handles... :) Trying that will undoubtedly turn it
into nothing but scrap iron immediately.
That's totally awesome Northfield is still so responsive...makes what
happened to Delta and to somewhat lesser extent Powermatic even more
disappointing.
I'm envious... :)
--
On 4/14/2019 8:47 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 9:34:57 AM UTC-4, dpb wrote:
...
>> ... but never got the round tuit to list it anywhere
>> or even call in the local AM "Radio-Bay" morning call-in show...
>>
> Here you go...you have no excuses now.
>
> https://heavenlyhomemakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/roudtuitsm.jpg
Oh, absolutely what I do _NOT_ want a ready supply of at hand... :)
--