"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote
>
Looking at bacon under a microscope, running with scissors, yup, all
fall in that category.
I think that the interesting part was that there is a lot of
difference between origin and grades of granite.
Some of it, quite 'hot' compared to those levels allowed at nuclear
plants. (My oldest daughter is an operator at a 3500MW generating
station and she has shared some of knowledge her about 'safe' levels
of different radiations.)
But.... if you have a choice between NO emissions or 'some' emissions
from a countertop, it is my duty to inform the client.
The same way as I do when I strongly suggest the use of an acrylic
based product over a polyester based countertop.
At the same time, I don't think that the owners of granite are going
to give birth to three-headed lizards.
r
It was very interesting to say the least. Good information and I learned
something this morning.
It was particularly interesting since I have the granite out in my garage
all set to go into the kitchen in the next couple of weeks.
Luckily, I am way too old to be birthin' any more little lizards ;¬D
On Jul 25, 6:48 pm, hex <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 3:23 pm, Aardvark <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:23:12 -0700, Robatoy wrote:
> > > Interesting:
>
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?
>
> > no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
>
> > The main railway station in Edinburgh (that's in Scotland), Waverley
> > Station, is built into solid granite. I was told once that if a nuclear
> > plant had the same ambient radioactivity (or whatever they call it) the
> > plant would be evacuated and shut down for a very loooong time :-)
>
> > Granite is, apparently, a naturally radioactive mineral.
>
> > --
> > Liverpool. European City Of Culture 2008http://www.liverpool08.com
>
> Not all granite is hot.
Yes.
All granite is radioactive.
The activity varies, a lot. Most granites are somewhat hotter than
most sedimentary stone, but the sedimentary stone at the Okla
mine is probably hotter than any granite.
> ...
>
> And back to the original topic: which is more carcinogenic -- the
> radon coming out of granite or the nasty chemical binders in solid
> surface or quartz chip like silestone?
>
It depends of course.
It's the dose that makes a poison.
--
FF
J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&
> >pagewanted=all > > While we are on the subject of dangerious substances
> >consider:
> >
> > DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE: The vapor can cause sever burns, the condensate
> > if breathed can cause death by drowning and the solid form can freeze
> > body tissue leading to loss of that tissue.
>
> Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes convulsions
> at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly treated.
Also severe lung injury if breathed for longer than about 20 mins
continuously at lower pressures
>
> > BTW: DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE IS: H2O
-- >replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me >Pics at
http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml >and
http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml
Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes convulsions
> > > at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly treated.
> >
> > Also severe lung injury if breathed for longer than about 20 mins
> > continuously at lower pressures
> >
>
> Exposure to the pure gas at a pressure of one bar it will cause third
> degree burns within seconds. You definitely won;t last 20 minutes.
Sorry you must have got your gases mixed up. The one we were talking
about I have used at 1.6 bar (resting not active) for 16 mins and at
lower pressures for quite a bit longer.
--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
>and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml
David G. Nagel <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jerome;
>
> What Fred was talking about is that O2 at one atmosphere and 100%
> concentration is toxic. This is why the maximum depth for scuba divers
> using standard air mix is 300 feet. The partial pressure of atmospheric
> oxygen is 14.7 pounds per square inch at that depth. This is the
> equivalent of 100% concentration at sea level.
That was the one we were talking about, though I don't think Fred got
the point that it was one component not both.
And the usual limit for most scuba divers is 130 feet or 40 Meters, not
91 Meters 300 feet. For that it is usual to have a 3rd gas "He" in the
mix.
But that is getting too complex and loosing the point of the joke.
--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
>and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml
Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> If it is the one we are talking about you did not use it as a
> _gas_ at 1.6 bar.
It is the pure element gas Nagel and I were talking about, but not the
compound one you were. ;-)
--
>replace spamblock with my family name to e-mail me
>Pics at http://www.meekings.net/diving/index.shtml
>and http://www.meekings.net/photo-groups/nui/index.shtml
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:10:35 -0700 (PDT), Robatoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Funny you should say that. I have a clown near here, who sells
>absolute crap granite counters and quotes prices less than my solid
>surface. No warranty, very shabby installation and a lot of unhappy
>customers. This will just give me another tool to stave off the influx
>of garbage.
>People tend to think that granite is granite...not so. Not even close.
You should consider your self fortunate.
I have Lou Irion as a competitor.
What's my marketing plan?
Regards, Tom.
Thos. J. Watson - Cabinetmaker
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet
On Jul 24, 1:23 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> Interesting:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti...
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/epa-confirms-granite-countertops-pose-sign=
ificant-health-risk-undercutting-junk/
Assuming that teh EPA and FOX are accurately reporting the
University of Akron and Consumer Reports results, and they
tested the same granites that were reported on the in NY article,
the radon levels in Dr. Sugarman=92s kitchen were incorrectly
measured or reported, due to a different source, or her kitchen
was extraordinarily poorly vented.
But with at least 900 kinds of granite from 63 countries being
available
in the US, I expect U of A and CR didn't test them all just yet.
--
FF
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
Show the article to enough people and they might end up paying you to remove
their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else.
Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
"Kate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It was particularly interesting since I have the granite out in my garage
> all set to go into the kitchen in the next couple of weeks.
> Luckily, I am way too old to be birthin' any more little lizards ;¬D
Well, if you do, I'm guessing the first thing done about it will be the
disposing of the granite countertop.
On Jul 26, 11:57=A0am, Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jul 24, 1:23 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Interesting:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti...
>
> http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/epa-confirms-granite-countertops-pos...
>
> Assuming that teh EPA and FOX are accurately reporting =A0the
> University of Akron and Consumer Reports results, and they
> tested the same granites that were reported on the in NY article,
> the radon levels in Dr. Sugarman=92s kitchen were incorrectly
> measured or reported, due to a different source, or her kitchen
> was extraordinarily poorly vented.
>
> But with at least 900 kinds of granite from 63 countries being
> available
> in the US, I expect U of A and CR didn't test them all just yet.
>
> --
>
> FF
At some level, I'm sure that anything we dig up has some radiation,
'cept granma maybe.
On Jul 28, 2:25 pm, [email protected] (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes convulsions
> > > > at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly treated.
>
> > > Also severe lung injury if breathed for longer than about 20 mins
> > > continuously at lower pressures
>
> > Exposure to the pure gas at a pressure of one bar it will cause third
> > degree burns within seconds. You definitely won't last 20 minutes.
>
> Sorry you must have got your gases mixed up. The one we were talking
> about I have used at 1.6 bar (resting not active) for 16 mins and at
> lower pressures for quite a bit longer.
>
If it is the one we are talking about you did not use it as a
_gas_ at 1.6 bar.
--
FF
On Jul 25, 9:12=A0am, "Kate" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Did you know, that swallowing small amounts of saliva, over a long perio=
d
> of time, causes cancer?"
> George Carlin
>
> That's about where I classify this sort of thing. If they tested every
> square inch of our little worlds we would find that there is no place saf=
e.
> Those that are turned to jelly from something like this will find some ot=
her
> benign element else to kill them eventually - wind or rain or sun - oh ye=
a -
> they already blamed those.
>
> K.
>
Looking at bacon under a microscope, running with scissors, yup, all
fall in that category.
I think that the interesting part was that there is a lot of
difference between origin and grades of granite.
Some of it, quite 'hot' compared to those levels allowed at nuclear
plants. (My oldest daughter is an operator at a 3500MW generating
station and she has shared some of knowledge her about 'safe' levels
of different radiations.)
But.... if you have a choice between NO emissions or 'some' emissions
from a countertop, it is my duty to inform the client.
The same way as I do when I strongly suggest the use of an acrylic
based product over a polyester based countertop.
At the same time, I don't think that the owners of granite are going
to give birth to three-headed lizards.
r
On Jul 27, 9:34 am, "EXT" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Or they can get a $400 discount on some new quartz or Corian counter
> > tops.
>
> Since granite is mostly quartz wouldn't synthetic material made with quartz
> have most of the same problems?
No, because it is the trace minerals in the granite, like Uranium and
its decay daughters, or potassium-40 that contribute most of the
activity.
Pure quartz would have none of those. Pure quartz is silicon
dioxide,
the natural isotopes of both of those elements are all stable.
--
FF
Jerome Meekings wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>>> Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes convulsions
>>>> at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly treated.
>>> Also severe lung injury if breathed for longer than about 20 mins
>>> continuously at lower pressures
>>>
>> Exposure to the pure gas at a pressure of one bar it will cause third
>> degree burns within seconds. You definitely won;t last 20 minutes.
>
> Sorry you must have got your gases mixed up. The one we were talking
> about I have used at 1.6 bar (resting not active) for 16 mins and at
> lower pressures for quite a bit longer.
>
Jerome;
What Fred was talking about is that O2 at one atmosphere and 100%
concentration is toxic. This is why the maximum depth for scuba divers
using standard air mix is 300 feet. The partial pressure of atmospheric
oxygen is 14.7 pounds per square inch at that depth. This is the
equivalent of 100% concentration at sea level.
The whole thread on this subject is really a joke, or would be if some
stupid city councilmen in California hadn't almost passed an ordinance
baning Dihydrogen Monooxide as a hazardous substance. They were stopped
in time.
The above is according to a newspaper article a couple of years ago.
Dave Nagel
On Jul 24, 4:12=A0pm, N Hurst <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 4:04 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Jul 24, 3:06 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti.=
..
>
> > > Show the article to enough people and they might end up paying you to=
remove
> > > their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else=
.
> > > Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
>
> > Yep. =A0Put on a Tyvek suit and a PAPR and charge $350 for the 15 minut=
e
> > Hazardous Material Removal Consultation.
>
> Or they can get a $400 discount on some new quartz or Corian counter
> tops.
Discount? With the radioactivity frying your waist level equipment
every time you use the sink or get a dish? No way! There's not even
time to get a second estimate.
"I'd recommend that it be removed ASAP. I could get the guys in here
tonight. Ted's got his daughter's wedding this weekend, but this is
more important and I know he'll come. You'll have to stay in a motel
for a week while we cordon off the property and erect the containment
fencing."
R
On Jul 26, 3:12=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:49bf588d-fe2b-4be0-9806-
> [email protected]:
>
> > At some level, I'm sure that anything we dig up has some radiation,
> > 'cept granma maybe.
>
> I expect that anyone who was alive during the 50's and early 60's is more
> radioactive than someone who died before 1945 or was born after 196whatev=
er
> when the test ban treaty went into effect (Google it yourself).
>
> BTW, the fact that the granite under New York is of a type containing
> rather more radioactivity shold not deter you from subsidizing the subway
> mode of rapid transit.
>
NYC Subway works rather well, even for an outsider. It seems like the
only choice of getting in and out of Manhattan as parking fees are
just insane.
Interesting observation about subway technology. In Montreal, they run
on rubber tires, in Toronto, on regular railroad-style wheels.
Toronto's are quieter. (From an NRC Canada research finding, something
I discovered during my research there.)
I am a huge proponent of hub & spoke subterranean people movers.
Attach a subway system to a nuclear power plant, and Bob's your uncle.
(Unless you get those horribly out-dated union attitudes in there,
then we're all screwed.)
On Jul 27, 9:57 am, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> "EXT" <[email protected]> wrote innews:[email protected]:
>
>
>
> >> Or they can get a $400 discount on some new quartz or Corian counter
> >> tops.
>
> > Since granite is mostly quartz wouldn't synthetic material made with
> > quartz have most of the same problems?
>
> That would be logical. If indeed Silestone is made with quartz, I'd have
> to bring our Geiger counter and measure. It could "see" my daughter from
> 50 yards away (and inside her house) when she was treated with radioactive
> iodine for her Graves' disease. ANd the treatment did indeed cure that.
>
Siltstone is mostly quartz and clay. There are many different
clays,
some pure clays include elements with naturally occurring
radioisotopes
such as calcium and potassium or heavier metals. But probably most
of the activity in a given siltstone will again be due to trace
minerals that
are not part of the matrix per se.
--
Ff
On Jul 24, 4:04 pm, RicodJour <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 24, 3:06 pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti...
>
> > Show the article to enough people and they might end up paying you to remove
> > their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else.
> > Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
>
> Yep. Put on a Tyvek suit and a PAPR and charge $350 for the 15 minute
> Hazardous Material Removal Consultation.
>
> R
Or they can get a $400 discount on some new quartz or Corian counter
tops.
On Jul 30, 4:00 am, [email protected] (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > If it is the one we are talking about you did not use it as a
> > _gas_ at 1.6 bar.
>
> It is the pure element gas Nagel and I were talking about, but not the
> compound one you were. ;-)
> --
>
Well, yes. Kate referred to 'one component' of it.
The rest of us stayed on-topic, or should that be
off-topic, or maybe on the off-topic?
--
FF
On Jul 25, 12:20 pm, mac davis <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:06:47 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti...
>
> >Show the article to enough people and they might end upI just paying you to remove
> >their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else.
> >Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
>
> Sounds like a great way to get a good deal on a slightly used Steel City TS..
> I LIKE IT!
>
> mac
>
> Please remove splinters before emailing
I just got one of these saws with the granite top. Given that the top
is quarried in China and China's recent reputation for product safety,
I am somewhat concerned my boys are gonna fry....
Could take care of that middle-aged prostate without having to get
probed though ;-)
D'ohBoy
On Jul 30, 3:57 am, [email protected] (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
> David G. Nagel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Jerome;
>
> > What Fred was talking about is that O2 at one atmosphere and 100%
> > concentration is toxic. This is why the maximum depth for scuba divers
> > using standard air mix is 300 feet. The partial pressure of atmospheric
> > oxygen is 14.7 pounds per square inch at that depth. This is the
> > equivalent of 100% concentration at sea level.
>
> That was the one we were talking about, though I don't think Fred got
> the point that it was one component not both.
No, we were talking about 'dihydrogen oxide', aka 'hydrogen
hydroxide',
aka H20, aka water. If you breathe water you die. If you are
exposed
to water in gaseous form at one bar partial pressure, you are scaled
to death.
From your two component comment it would appear you thought
we were talking about air.
>
> And the usual limit for most scuba divers is 130 feet or 40 Meters, not
> 91 Meters 300 feet. For that it is usual to have a 3rd gas "He" in the
> mix.
>
> But that is getting too complex and loosing the point of the joke.
>
Well, yes. We were talking about water, not air.
--
FF
Ya'll are just too damn smart to be working on wood!
K.
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
David G. Nagel wrote:
> Kate wrote:
>> "Did you know, that swallowing small amounts of saliva, over a long
>> period of time, causes cancer?"
>> George Carlin
>>
>> That's about where I classify this sort of thing. If they tested
>> every square inch of our little worlds we would find that there is
>> no place safe. Those that are turned to jelly from something like
>> this will find some other benign element else to kill them
>> eventually - wind or rain or sun - oh yea - they already blamed
>> those.
>>
>> K.
>>
>>
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:26442cd3-3b29-4bbf-84d7-06fd43b47bd1@h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> Interesting:
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
>>
>>
> While we are on the subject of dangerious substances consider:
>
> DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE: The vapor can cause sever burns, the
> condensate
> if
> breathed can cause death by drowning and the solid form can freeze
> body
> tissue leading to loss of that tissue.
Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes
convulsions at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly
treated.
> BTW: DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE IS: H2O
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
On Jul 26, 4:01 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Jul 26, 11:57 am, Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 24, 1:23 pm, Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > Interesting:
>
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti.=
..
>
> >http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/epa-confirms-granite-countertops-pos...
>
> > Assuming that teh EPA and FOX are accurately reporting the
> > University of Akron and Consumer Reports results, and they
> > tested the same granites that were reported on the in NY article,
> > the radon levels in Dr. Sugarman=92s kitchen were incorrectly
> > measured or reported, due to a different source, or her kitchen
> > was extraordinarily poorly vented.
>
> > But with at least 900 kinds of granite from 63 countries being
> > available
> > in the US, I expect U of A and CR didn't test them all just yet.
>
> ...
>
> At some level, I'm sure that anything we dig up has some radiation,
> 'cept granma maybe.
Of course. Gamma too. Some much more than others
http://rpd.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/ncm327v2
http://www.uic.com.au/nip25.htm
It's the dose that makes a poison.
--
FF
On Jul 28, 3:48 pm, "David G. Nagel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Jerome Meekings wrote:
> > Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >>>> Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes convulsions
> >>>> at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly treated.
> >>> Also severe lung injury if breathed for longer than about 20 mins
> >>> continuously at lower pressures
>
> >> Exposure to the pure gas at a pressure of one bar it will cause third
> >> degree burns within seconds. You definitely won;t last 20 minutes.
>
> > Sorry you must have got your gases mixed up. The one we were talking
> > about I have used at 1.6 bar (resting not active) for 16 mins and at
> > lower pressures for quite a bit longer.
>
> ...
>
> What Fred was talking about is that O2 at one atmosphere and 100%
> concentration is toxic.
No, what I was talking about was that water vapor at
a partial pressure of one bar has a minimum temperature
of 100 degrees Celsius.
--
FF
On Jul 24, 3:06=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti...
>
> Show the article to enough people and they might end up paying you to rem=
ove
> their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else.
> Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
Yep. Put on a Tyvek suit and a PAPR and charge $350 for the 15 minute
Hazardous Material Removal Consultation.
R
On Jul 24, 3:06=A0pm, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti...
>
> Show the article to enough people and they might end up paying you to rem=
ove
> their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else.
> Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
Funny you should say that. I have a clown near here, who sells
absolute crap granite counters and quotes prices less than my solid
surface. No warranty, very shabby installation and a lot of unhappy
customers. This will just give me another tool to stave off the influx
of garbage.
People tend to think that granite is granite...not so. Not even close.
Kate wrote:
> "Did you know, that swallowing small amounts of saliva, over a long period
> of time, causes cancer?"
> George Carlin
>
> That's about where I classify this sort of thing. If they tested every
> square inch of our little worlds we would find that there is no place safe.
> Those that are turned to jelly from something like this will find some other
> benign element else to kill them eventually - wind or rain or sun - oh yea -
> they already blamed those.
>
> K.
>
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:26442cd3-3b29-4bbf-84d7-06fd43b47bd1@h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
> Interesting:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
>
>
While we are on the subject of dangerious substances consider:
DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE: The vapor can cause sever burns, the condensate if
breathed can cause death by drowning and the solid form can freeze body
tissue leading to loss of that tissue.
BTW: DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE IS: H2O
Robatoy wrote:
> Interesting:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
I think that if you check many of stones and concretes are to some
degree radio active, and as said before would fail the criteria for a
nuclear power plant.
This is one reason why we should reevaluate government regulation to
make it easier to build nuclear power plants. Nuclear energy is the one
and only clean energy. A nuclear plant can be built on a finite
amount of land. The energy output can be double or tripled in the same
space. (Based on the original design of the Shearon Harris plant.)
Forgetting the obvious benefits of a clean cheap energy source of
energy, the facilities can provide large of lakes and recreational
facilities. (Again the Shearon Harris plant as an example)
Based on the windmill farm in southern California, it takes about 8
acres ground for one windmill--> more energy, more windmills, and more
acres are cleared and many access roads built to service the windmill
farm. These acres can be used only for windmills because of the
revolving blades.
Corn is similar, I believe it takes about 25 acre per year to make one
tank truck of alcohol (4000 gallons). Believe it or not there is a
limited amount of farmable land available in the world. Do the math.
Acres farmland available = Acres for energy corn production + acres for
food production (animal and human) One goes up the other goes down.
Alcohol is not an viable fuel source. People don't do much in the acres
used to grow corn.
"Did you know, that swallowing small amounts of saliva, over a long period
of time, causes cancer?"
George Carlin
That's about where I classify this sort of thing. If they tested every
square inch of our little worlds we would find that there is no place safe.
Those that are turned to jelly from something like this will find some other
benign element else to kill them eventually - wind or rain or sun - oh yea -
they already blamed those.
K.
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:26442cd3-3b29-4bbf-84d7-06fd43b47bd1@h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
Interesting:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:26442cd3-3b29-4bbf-84d7-06fd43b47bd1@h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
> Interesting:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial
> =&pagewanted=all
I believe the main radioactive component in granite is a uranium-containing
mineral. Uranium is radioactive, but emits only alpha particles, ie helium
nuclei. Their energy is very low, and will not even penetrate the topmost
layer of skin, which is already dead tissue. It is likely that table salt
is more dangerous.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Kate" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:%[email protected]:
>
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote
>
>>
> Looking at bacon under a microscope, running with scissors, yup, all
> fall in that category.
> I think that the interesting part was that there is a lot of
> difference between origin and grades of granite.
> Some of it, quite 'hot' compared to those levels allowed at nuclear
> plants. (My oldest daughter is an operator at a 3500MW generating
> station and she has shared some of knowledge her about 'safe' levels
> of different radiations.)
>
> But.... if you have a choice between NO emissions or 'some' emissions
> from a countertop, it is my duty to inform the client.
> The same way as I do when I strongly suggest the use of an acrylic
> based product over a polyester based countertop.
>
> At the same time, I don't think that the owners of granite are going
> to give birth to three-headed lizards.
>
> r
>
> It was very interesting to say the least. Good information and I
> learned something this morning.
> It was particularly interesting since I have the granite out in my
> garage all set to go into the kitchen in the next couple of weeks.
> Luckily, I am way too old to be birthin' any more little lizards ;¬D
>
Well, I got a copy of a newspaper, the Onion, dated July 24, which
announced "Queen Elizabeth II announces she's pregnant again"
Oh well, it's the Onion ...
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in news:49bf588d-fe2b-4be0-9806-
[email protected]:
> At some level, I'm sure that anything we dig up has some radiation,
> 'cept granma maybe.
>
I expect that anyone who was alive during the 50's and early 60's is more
radioactive than someone who died before 1945 or was born after 196whatever
when the test ban treaty went into effect (Google it yourself).
BTW, the fact that the granite under New York is of a type containing
rather more radioactivity shold not deter you from subsidizing the subway
mode of rapid transit.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:6bb1d9d6-d7ce-4081-ab09-0fa3d4bee4d7@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 26, 3:12 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:49bf588d-fe2b-4be0-9806-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>> > At some level, I'm sure that anything we dig up has some radiation,
>> > 'cept granma maybe.
>>
>> I expect that anyone who was alive during the 50's and early 60's is
>> more radioactive than someone who died before 1945 or was born after
>> 196whatev
> er
>> when the test ban treaty went into effect (Google it yourself).
>>
>> BTW, the fact that the granite under New York is of a type containing
>> rather more radioactivity shold not deter you from subsidizing the
>> subway mode of rapid transit.
>>
> NYC Subway works rather well, even for an outsider. It seems like the
> only choice of getting in and out of Manhattan as parking fees are
> just insane.
>
> Interesting observation about subway technology. In Montreal, they run
> on rubber tires, in Toronto, on regular railroad-style wheels.
> Toronto's are quieter. (From an NRC Canada research finding, something
> I discovered during my research there.)
>
> I am a huge proponent of hub & spoke subterranean people movers.
> Attach a subway system to a nuclear power plant, and Bob's your uncle.
> (Unless you get those horribly out-dated union attitudes in there,
> then we're all screwed.)
>
Not sure I understand exaactly what you mean with hub and spoke.
Everywhere outside to just 1 center goes only so far. Both NY and Paris
have what I would consider better systems than that, in that the
"center" load is spread out.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:6bb1d9d6-d7ce-4081-ab09-0fa3d4bee4d7@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:
> NYC Subway works rather well, even for an outsider. It seems like the
> only choice of getting in and out of Manhattan as parking fees are
> just insane.
Yes, I drove in to Manhattan for a while (~30 years ago), but the wear and
tear on the system is just too much, even apart from the costs.
> Interesting observation about subway technology. In Montreal, they run
> on rubber tires, in Toronto, on regular railroad-style wheels.
> Toronto's are quieter. (From an NRC Canada research finding, something
> I discovered during my research there.)
>
The Paris rubber lines do seem quieter than the other lines, but I think
that track and equipment tolerances and upkeep are much more important to
perceived sound levels.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
news:adeaff79-d03b-443b-a322-9900646c06aa@j22g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
> On Jul 26, 4:38 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote
>> innews:6bb1d9d6-d7ce-4081-ab09-0f
> [email protected]:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Jul 26, 3:12 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
>> >> news:49bf588d-fe2b-4be0-9806-
>> >> [email protected]:
>>
>> >> > At some level, I'm sure that anything we dig up has some
>> >> > radiation, 'cept granma maybe.
>>
>> >> I expect that anyone who was alive during the 50's and early 60's
>> >> is more radioactive than someone who died before 1945 or was born
>> >> after 196whatev
>> > er
>> >> when the test ban treaty went into effect (Google it yourself).
>>
>> >> BTW, the fact that the granite under New York is of a type
>> >> containing rather more radioactivity shold not deter you from
>> >> subsidizing the subway mode of rapid transit.
>>
>> > NYC Subway works rather well, even for an outsider. It seems like
>> > the only choice of getting in and out of Manhattan as parking fees
>> > are just insane.
>>
>> > Interesting observation about subway technology. In Montreal, they
>> > run on rubber tires, in Toronto, on regular railroad-style wheels.
>> > Toronto's are quieter. (From an NRC Canada research finding,
>> > something I discovered during my research there.)
>>
>> > I am a huge proponent of hub & spoke subterranean people movers.
>> > Attach a subway system to a nuclear power plant, and Bob's your
>> > uncle. (Unless you get those horribly out-dated union attitudes in
>> > there, then we're all screwed.)
>>
>> Not sure I understand exaactly what you mean with hub and spoke.
>> Everywhere outside to just 1 center goes only so far. Both NY and
>> Pari
> s
>> have what I would consider better systems than that, in that the
>> "center" load is spread out.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards
>> Han
>> email address is invalid
>
> Hub & Spoke is where major lines cris-cross at several different
> places. Not in the Purolator model, where is just one hub... I should
> have said hubS and Spokes. IOW, to be able to change trains at many
> locations...or stay on to your destination. For instance, you can (in
> Toronto) get to Bloor & Yonge from Union Station in more ways than
> one.
Ok, that's more like Boston then, or vice versa. I have been in Toronto
only once, and that was many, many years ago.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"EXT" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
>> Or they can get a $400 discount on some new quartz or Corian counter
>> tops.
>
> Since granite is mostly quartz wouldn't synthetic material made with
> quartz have most of the same problems?
>
That would be logical. If indeed Silestone is made with quartz, I'd have
to bring our Geiger counter and measure. It could "see" my daughter from
50 yards away (and inside her house) when she was treated with radioactive
iodine for her Graves' disease. ANd the treatment did indeed cure that.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"D'ohBoy" <[email protected]> wrote in news:906b25c0-aedd-4ce1-9552-
[email protected]:
> I just got one of these saws with the granite top. Given that the top
> is quarried in China and China's recent reputation for product safety,
> I am somewhat concerned my boys are gonna fry....
>
> Could take care of that middle-aged prostate without having to get
> probed though ;-)
>
You're planning on a prostatectomy with your saw??!!!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Robatoy" complained about a low ball competitor in his hood.
Reminds me of a time in my life when I did a lot of business with auto
dealership owners.
I always approached them the same way.
"Sir, are classic rolls are reversed."
"This time you are buying and I am selling."
"When conducting business dealings, I always remember that you can not
fuck an honest man."
"How do you want to do business?"
Everyone of them understood.
Some of the best customers I ever had.
Lew
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:23:12 -0700, Robatoy wrote:
> Interesting:
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?
no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
The main railway station in Edinburgh (that's in Scotland), Waverley
Station, is built into solid granite. I was told once that if a nuclear
plant had the same ambient radioactivity (or whatever they call it) the
plant would be evacuated and shut down for a very loooong time :-)
Granite is, apparently, a naturally radioactive mineral.
--
Liverpool. European City Of Culture 2008
http://www.liverpool08.com
On Jul 26, 2:42 am, [email protected] (Jerome Meekings)
wrote:
> J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti...
> > >pagewanted=all > > While we are on the subject of dangerious substances
> > >consider:
>
> > > DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE: The vapor can cause sever burns, the condensate
> > > if breathed can cause death by drowning and the solid form can freeze
> > > body tissue leading to loss of that tissue.
>
> > Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes convulsions
> > at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly treated.
>
> Also severe lung injury if breathed for longer than about 20 mins
> continuously at lower pressures
>
Exposure to the pure gas at a pressure of one bar it will cause third
degree burns within seconds. You definitely won;t last 20 minutes.
>
>
> > > BTW: DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE IS: H2O
>
And "HHO" gas is actually a misspelling of 2H2 + O2, also called
Brown's gas.
--
FF
On Jul 26, 4:38=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote innews:6bb1d9d6-d7ce-4081-ab09-0f=
[email protected]:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 26, 3:12=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Robatoy <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:49bf588d-fe2b-4be0-9806-
> >> [email protected]:
>
> >> > At some level, I'm sure that anything we dig up has some radiation,
> >> > 'cept granma maybe.
>
> >> I expect that anyone who was alive during the 50's and early 60's is
> >> more radioactive than someone who died before 1945 or was born after
> >> 196whatev
> > er
> >> when the test ban treaty went into effect (Google it yourself).
>
> >> BTW, the fact that the granite under New York is of a type containing
> >> rather more radioactivity shold not deter you from subsidizing the
> >> subway mode of rapid transit.
>
> > NYC Subway works rather well, even for an outsider. It seems like the
> > only choice of getting in and out of Manhattan as parking fees are
> > just insane.
>
> > Interesting observation about subway technology. In Montreal, they run
> > on rubber tires, in Toronto, on regular railroad-style wheels.
> > Toronto's are quieter. (From an NRC Canada research finding, something
> > I discovered during my research there.)
>
> > I am a huge proponent of hub & spoke subterranean people movers.
> > Attach a subway system to a nuclear power plant, and Bob's your uncle.
> > (Unless you get those horribly out-dated union attitudes in there,
> > then we're all screwed.)
>
> Not sure I understand exaactly what you mean with hub and spoke. =A0
> Everywhere outside to just 1 center goes only so far. =A0Both NY and Pari=
s
> have what I would consider better systems than that, in that the
> "center" load is spread out.
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid
Hub & Spoke is where major lines cris-cross at several different
places. Not in the Purolator model, where is just one hub... I should
have said hubS and Spokes. IOW, to be able to change trains at many
locations...or stay on to your destination. For instance, you can (in
Toronto) get to Bloor & Yonge from Union Station in more ways than one.
On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 14:06:47 -0500, "Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
>
>Show the article to enough people and they might end up paying you to remove
>their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else.
>Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
>
Sounds like a great way to get a good deal on a slightly used Steel City TS..
I LIKE IT!
mac
Please remove splinters before emailing
On Jul 24, 2:41 pm, "David G. Nagel" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Upscale wrote:
> > "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstiti...
>
> > Show the article to enough people and they might end up paying you to remove
> > their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else.
> > Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
>
> My advice to those people who think that they will get cancer from their
> granite counter tops is to stay as far away from other people as they
> can. Elements in the human body are also radioactive. In fact one of the
> key elements needed to keep the human or any animal hear pumping is
> radioactive.
That's probably potassium. IIRC the largest internal contributor
to a typical person's radiation dosage, is from K-40 in the body.
Carbon, (C-14 and C-13) comes in second.
Of course you would get along fine with only Phosphorus - 31
and C-12, isotopes are chemically identical.
Uranium is an alpha-emitter, and alphas don't get very far, not
even in air, and usually will not penetrate through clothing or
even the layer of naturally dead and dying skin sells on the surface
of one's skin. Radon is also an alpha emitter, but because it is
a gas it can be inhaled end emit the gamma inside of the lungs
where live tissue is exposed.
Because it is naturally present in granite, the granite will also
have all of the Uranium decay daughters and some of those
are gamma and beta emitters. Granites also contains
potassium-40.
That said, the figures in the articles showed that _some_ granites
are a lot hotter than others and probably should be avoided.
--
FF
On Jul 24, 3:23=A0pm, Aardvark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:23:12 -0700, Robatoy wrote:
> > Interesting:
>
> >http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?
>
> no_interstitial=3D&pagewanted=3Dall
>
> The main railway station in Edinburgh (that's in Scotland), Waverley
> Station, is built into solid granite. I was told once that if a nuclear
> plant had the same ambient radioactivity (or whatever they call it) the
> plant would be evacuated and shut down for a very loooong time :-)
>
> Granite is, apparently, a naturally radioactive mineral.
>
> --
> Liverpool. European City Of Culture 2008http://www.liverpool08.com
Not all granite is hot. Scottish granite is known to be. One of the
most radioactive buildings in all of Britain is the Marischal College
at University of Aberdeen ( second or third largest granite building
on the planet). As I recall G.P. Thompson (JJ Thompson's son) did
some of the early quantum mechanical experiements on electrons there.
And back to the original topic: which is more carcinogenic -- the
radon coming out of granite or the nasty chemical binders in solid
surface or quartz chip like silestone?
hex
-30-
On Jul 25, 2:48=A0pm, hex <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> And back to the original topic: =A0which is more carcinogenic -- the
> radon coming out of granite or the nasty chemical binders in solid
> surface or quartz chip like silestone?
Which nasty chemical binders?
"Upscale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"Kate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It was particularly interesting since I have the granite out in my garage
> all set to go into the kitchen in the next couple of weeks.
> Luckily, I am way too old to be birthin' any more little lizards ;¬D
Well, if you do, I'm guessing the first thing done about it will be the
disposing of the granite countertop.
LMAO... well... maybe lizard soup instead ;¬D
K.
David G. Nagel wrote:
> Kate wrote:
>> "Did you know, that swallowing small amounts of saliva, over a long
>> period of time, causes cancer?"
>> George Carlin
>>
>> That's about where I classify this sort of thing. If they tested
>> every square inch of our little worlds we would find that there is
>> no place safe. Those that are turned to jelly from something like
>> this will find some other benign element else to kill them
>> eventually - wind or rain or sun - oh yea - they already blamed
>> those.
>>
>> K.
>>
>>
>> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:26442cd3-3b29-4bbf-84d7-06fd43b47bd1@h17g2000prg.googlegroups.com...
>> Interesting:
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
>>
>>
> While we are on the subject of dangerious substances consider:
>
> DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE: The vapor can cause sever burns, the
> condensate
> if
> breathed can cause death by drowning and the solid form can freeze
> body
> tissue leading to loss of that tissue.
Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes
convulsions at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly
treated.
> BTW: DIHYDROGEN MONOOXIDE IS: H2O
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
Good Heavens!!
That's Hydrogen Hydroxide, nature's universal solvent. =20
(BEG)
P D Q
"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message =
news:[email protected]...
> On Jul 28, 3:48 pm, "David G. Nagel" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
> > Jerome Meekings wrote:
> > > Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >>>> Also one of the components is a highly toxic gas that causes =
convulsions
> > >>>> at 1.6 bar pressure, leading to death if not promptly treated.
> > >>> Also severe lung injury if breathed for longer than about 20 =
mins
> > >>> continuously at lower pressures
> >
> > >> Exposure to the pure gas at a pressure of one bar it will cause =
third
> > >> degree burns within seconds. You definitely won;t last 20 =
minutes.
> >
> > > Sorry you must have got your gases mixed up. The one we were =
talking
> > > about I have used at 1.6 bar (resting not active) for 16 mins and =
at
> > > lower pressures for quite a bit longer.
> >
> > ...
> >
> > What Fred was talking about is that O2 at one atmosphere and 100%
> > concentration is toxic.
>=20
> No, what I was talking about was that water vapor at
> a partial pressure of one bar has a minimum temperature
> of 100 degrees Celsius.
>=20
> --
>=20
> FF
>=20
>
Fred the Red Shirt <[email protected]> wrote:
>Because it is naturally present in granite, the granite will also
>have all of the Uranium decay daughters and some of those
>are gamma and beta emitters. Granites also contains
>potassium-40.
The US Capitol is made of granite. I'm told the radiation levels in the rotunda
are higher than any released at Three Mile Island. Hmm. That explains a lot
about Congress.
--- Doug
Upscale wrote:
> "Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
>
> Show the article to enough people and they might end up paying you to remove
> their $5000 granite counter tops and replace them with something else.
> Sounds like a money making proposition to me.
>
>
My advice to those people who think that they will get cancer from their
granite counter tops is to stay as far away from other people as they
can. Elements in the human body are also radioactive. In fact one of the
key elements needed to keep the human or any animal hear pumping is
radioactive.
On Jul 24, 8:29=A0pm, [email protected] (Ross Hebeisen) wrote:
> I think too many people just take it for granite.
ouch
"Keith nuttle" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Robatoy wrote:
>> Interesting:
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/24/garden/24granite.html?no_interstitial=&pagewanted=all
> I think that if you check many of stones and concretes are to some degree
> radio active, and as said before would fail the criteria for a nuclear
> power plant.
>
> This is one reason why we should reevaluate government regulation to make
> it easier to build nuclear power plants. Nuclear energy is the one and
> only clean energy. A nuclear plant can be built on a finite amount of
> land. The energy output can be double or tripled in the same space.
> (Based on the original design of the Shearon Harris plant.)
>
> Forgetting the obvious benefits of a clean cheap energy source of energy,
> the facilities can provide large of lakes and recreational facilities.
> (Again the Shearon Harris plant as an example)
>
>
Isn't one of the problems with that design the "lake"or cooling pond? If I
remember right the water in the pond is "hot" when compared to other bodies
of water in the area. This could lead to such enviormental disasters as:
ducks not wanting to fly south in the winter, open water fishing in winter,
larger fish then in other bodies of water. When there was a proposed plant
being built near Louisville Ky the tree huggers were saying that the river
temp would be 5 to 10 degrees higher then normal in the Ohio river. They
were right the water at the plant was supposed to be up to 5 degrees higher
then normal but by the time it hit Louisville 30 miles down stream it would
be 2 degrees or less higher then normal, according to the engineers. The
plant was never finished, converted to a coal fired plant and then never
finished or used.
>
>
Jerome Meekings wrote:
> David G. Nagel <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jerome;
>>
>> What Fred was talking about is that O2 at one atmosphere and 100%
>> concentration is toxic. This is why the maximum depth for scuba divers
>> using standard air mix is 300 feet. The partial pressure of atmospheric
>> oxygen is 14.7 pounds per square inch at that depth. This is the
>> equivalent of 100% concentration at sea level.
>
> That was the one we were talking about, though I don't think Fred got
> the point that it was one component not both.
>
> And the usual limit for most scuba divers is 130 feet or 40 Meters, not
> 91 Meters 300 feet. For that it is usual to have a 3rd gas "He" in the
> mix.
>
> But that is getting too complex and loosing the point of the joke.
>
Jerome;
The practical depth for nonprofessional scuba divers is about 100-150
feet as you say. This has more to do with the ability to handle the
depth than anything else. The MAX depth for any diver using O2-N2 mix is
300 feet period. At that depth the partial pressure of O2 is 14.7 pounds
per square inch which is lethal.
Dave