On Jan 18, 3:44 am, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Not the best thing to be thinking about, but do they both have advanced
> directives with do not resuscitate orders? If they don't, it might be nice
> for someone on the staff of the care home to discuss it with them.
Out of respect for basilisk's thread about his loss, I moved my off
topic thoughts to a new thread.
I think it is pertinent information for most of us middle aged guys to
be thinking of, so here is my response to LDosser's question. I would
highly advise anyone that will be stuck with sorting out the legal
details of their parents or loved ones (or maybe not so loved....) to
have a talk with them to make sure these documents are in place.
My parents "fibbed" to me about having all of this done, and only had
in their hands exactly what I had completed for them before. Doing
all of this with old, tired and sick people makes this task a thousand
times harder (and much more expensive) than it needs to be.
They still have to sign all the documents, and affidavits, so the big
difference is that they have to understand all the details and
ramifications of their affairs between illnesses, "down days",
doctor's appts., physical and mental therapy, etc. All of it has to
be done with brains that have been affected by cancer and chemo,
strokes, diabetes, and the onset of dementia.
And now they have to pay to have the documents transported to them by
the attorney for reviews ($$$) and witnessed by a non family member.
I think the only ones sicker of this whole process than me is them.
Some of these documents go out of usefulness since their is new,
preferred legal language. Some need to be replaced, some docs need to
be updated. << All of the documents that are generated need to be
approved by the facilities they frequent.>> A state approved,
federally approved, or a form from Quickbooks Will Maker probably
won't do it.
For example: The hospital that my folks like has a lot of seniors, so
in turn have a lot of senior care doctors. BUT, having been sued by
their patients enough times, they have their very own set of medical
directives. These must be signed and witnessed before every procedure
(in addition to the normal hospital disclaimers), and will be on file
for 6 months. After that, new docs must be signed, as the hospital
told me they aren't in the document archiving business. Additionally,
their legal staffs update the forms on a routine basis so they want
THEIR newest forms on file along with the state promulgated forms.
Another example is their nursing facility. They are part of a larger
state sized chain, and they have their own documents that allow or
disallow treatment. They DO NOT want either of them to die there on
premises for any reason; with that in mind they have their own forms
that are a rider to ours as long as they are on the premises. They
cannot "pull the plug" or order any advanced medical treatment, but if
either of my folks are ill they can call for transport and move them
to a hospital immediately. And without specifying the hospital they
want, they take a person to the one they want, even if they have never
treated them and have no records there. They get them out as fast as
they can to reduce liability.
****************************
They have now have the following either executed or in process, and I
would certainly recommend these to everyone that is "of age", whatever
that might be, or to have these docs done on behalf of yourself:
- Do not resuscitate orders
- Medical directives to comply with state and local laws to allow for
their care and assignment of ability to enact the DNR if they become
comatose
- Medical Power of Attorney directives that allow commitment to
permanent procedures on a treatment as well as monetary payment level
- Legal Power of Attorney assignment for certain aspects of their
personal lives
- Durable Power of Attorney for everything else
- All monetary accounts now have a sibling on as cosigners for access
- A new/updated will (last one was 5 years old) that spells out their
wishes
- Most importantly (at least from my standpoint) is a solid, written
budget with a financial plan
Medicaid used to have a 3 year "lookback" to see about your
eligibility for their services. It is now a whopping FIVE years, and
if you don't plan well, it will bite you hard. My parents should have
started planning years ago, but didn't. Now they live in fear that if
they really need heavy medical care, it may not be available.
Essentially, we must time the life of their assets to make sure they
can continue to get care, but not too much or they won't be Medicaid
eligible.
Now try to plan the medical future of a 84 year old man and woman.
Make it more interesting by throwing in years of poor health.
So my folks are now starting their financial planning (something other
than "saving money") now at the ages of 84 for him and 80 for her.
Good job!
My Dad is now stuck trying to understand all the complicated
information when he would rather be watching Matlock reruns. Worse,
he now has to depend on others to make sure he gets what he wants, and
he can't believe they charge for it. And he can't accept the fact
that if the attorney changes a document or adds a codicil, there are
additional charges incurred.
All in all, pretty miserable for everyone involved.
So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now for
YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
Robert
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:59:46 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>> I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in
>>> about 8 hours!
>>
>> Good luck!!
>>
>
>Well, That worked! Got at at 3pm today. C5-6 discectomy and fusion.
Definite suckage! Well, no more yogic headstands for you, boy.
--
The greatest fine art of the future will be the making
of a comfortable living from a small piece of land.
--Abraham Lincoln
----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: rec.woodworking
Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: Moved the thread about senior care
> On Jan 19, 7:43 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am going through this right now. Both of my parents are 87. My mother
>> was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer on their 60th wedding anneversary in
>> December. She haa gone a round of chemo and 1 week later, Saturday
>> night,
>> went in to the hospital with complications. Not sure if she will come
>> out
>> again to go home.
>
> I'm very sorry to hear that, Leon. I hope for he best outcome for
> her, no matter what that might be. Just no suffering....
I have been reminding my sisters that she is 87 and she has smoked most all
her life. Decided to give'm up 3 weeks ago.
I recall her scaring the living day lights out of me when I was 11 years old
when she mentioned that she would rather be dead than to go blind, she was
having detatching retna problems in the mid 60's and spending weeks on end
in a hospital in Houston when we lived in CC TX. Then with hospital visits
she was sure it was her time about 30 years ago and again 20 years ago and
again about 10 years ago with a minor stroke.
>
>> Basically they do
>> not want to think about that at all but there is going to come a time
>> that
>> they will wish that they had.
>
> And by then, the mole hill has become a mountain. With all the
> litigation going on these days, some attorneys want competency
> statements and for docs to be notarized in their presence after they
> review them with their clients. Imagine what it costs to get your
> attorney to spend an hour or two plus travel time to the nursing
> home. Ouch!
Fortunately we have a family lawyer that is a very good friend. My sister
and BIL worked for him for many years util recently but we stay in touch.
>
>> Once they reach a certain age you have to initiate and follow through
>> with
>> every action for and with them it seems.
>
> I agree. And as a special bonus, my father thinks that when you want
> him to do something, you are pushing him around because he is old.
> This includes things like reminding him to take his medicine, get
> ready for physical therapy, etc. He is sure that at this time in his
> life he is victimized and taken advantage of because of his age. He
> sees it everywhere.
Fortuantely my father is still in relatively good health and gets around
pretty darn well on his own considering his age. My mother OTOH has not
driven a car that I know of since 1975.
On Jan 19, 1:52=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jan 18, 5:03=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> For me, that doesn't make this project much different than running a
> construction job. =A0
Also too true to be comfortable for us. During the fifteen or so
years of doctors, hospitals, nursing facilities, lawyers, hospice,
etc.; occasionally it emotionally came down to being a job. We were
managing "stuff". From time-to-time we had to reset our thinker to
realize we were dealing with mom or dad's welfare.
During the fifteen years we also developed a rather offbeat and
irreverent sense of humor regarding the situation. I think it was a
defense mechanism but it got a few odd stares from folks who haven't
dealt with it yet. One one occasion my wife told my daughter "When I
start acting like grandma, just shove me off of a curb in front of the
bus."
Daughter wasn't amused.
On 22 Jan 2010 01:28:29 GMT, the infamous Han <[email protected]>
scrawled the following:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 21 Jan 2010 11:23:49 GMT, the infamous Han <[email protected]>
>> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
>>>news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:13:05 -0600, the infamous Jim in Milwaukee
>>>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Would appreciate it if you would send me a copy. e-mail addy:
>>>>>lujinatsbcglobal.net
>>>>>
>>>>>Thanks much,
>>>>
>>>> Done, files to Jim and Basilisk.
>>>>
>>>The file was found by google:
>>>Search term:"Your Life, Your Choices"
>>>
>>>http://stevebuyer.house.gov/UploadedFiles/your_life_your_choices.pdf
>>
>> Oh, good. The gov't, in their infinite wisdom, saw fit to remove it
>> from their VA website and the VHA sites.
>>
>> Now, does anyone think it's horrible, scary, or mean?
>
>What do you think, Larry? You didn't suddenly become shy, did you
><grin>?
I'm only shy in person. My keyboard liberates me, though.
>I do not think that prolonging breathing is necessarily a good thing, au
>contraire. I think living is worth while, if it is really living.
>OTOH, this is a rather personal thing, so if you are willing to pay, do
>as you wish. Just make sure the person is in favor of what is going to
>happen to him or her.
That's precisely why the talk should be had and papers signed stating
the person's exact wishes. Note that they're amendable at any time
(second-thining your choices in the hospital with tubes in ya) by the
person who signed them. What more could a person ask for? OK,
EXcluding eternal life. ;)
--
Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm).
-----------
On Jan 18, 5:03=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> Please note:
> It is never too early to leave a will, living will, DNR desires, for you
> yourself. =A0Once you get (semi)incapacitated it will be much more
> difficult. =A0What would you do if had a car accident or your planned
> elective surgery goes wrong, and you become a vegetable?
>
> Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
Very true.
We did a lot of this a few years ago (about 5 - 6 ) but the needs of
the hospitals and treatment centers have changed so much we still had
to rework every agreement.
I have a friend of mine doing this for my folks, and he said it is
important to have all docs reviewed and rewritten as needed every
three to five years. Not so much wills, but in particular the ones
that deal with medical issues.
If there was one thing that I regret about whole affair, it is not
really pressing them hard to get their affairs in order before now. I
asked them, talked to them about it, even set them up with an attorney
to get it done. They would never do anything other than the most
rudimentary documents, and never took care of all the ancillary docs
that make life easier for all.
I kept DNRs and Medical POAs in larger red folders in their house
hanging near doorways that said: FOR EMS ATTENDANTS in large
letters. The EMS guys loved it.
I thought we were all on the same page of keeping the info updated and
taking care of finances, etc., but one day it all stopped, and they
folks were no longer interested.
I should have kept after them and done all I could to get them to take
care of this stuff earlier.
And as has been pointed out, when you really need these docs, it can
be too late. I am not sure what my father was waiting for, maybe some
kind of signal, but even at 80 he wouldn't go and sit with the
attorney to get his legal and financial affairs in order.
I thought he might be thinking he was facing death, and he assured me
that wasn't it. He just wasn't going to do it, and that was that.
I should never have let up the pressure. The other side of that coin
was that I never, ever, thought it would be me taking care of these
matters. Never.
But due to bad attitudes, foul language, raised voices, accusations or
near abuse, and a healthy dose of game playing by my folks, both
sisters pulled out of the project.
For me, that doesn't make this project much different than running a
construction job. And I must say, neither of my parents have seen the
foul tempered, nasty disposition of a job site foreman side of my
personality in person. I don't think they really like it much at
all. But at this stage, all of this has proven too much for my
sisters, so it all falls to me.
And every time we "come to it" all I can think about it how
unnecessary doing all of this now is for both camps.
Once again, I would never have let this go if I though >> I << was
going to be in charge. I would have found a way to have them do this
themselves, and even though it can be depressing and ugly subject
matter, all of it would be behind them, nothing more than an
unpleasant memory.
Too late now, though.
I know that once I get this parent stuff behind me, I am going to work
on updating all of my paperwork as well.
Robert
On Jan 19, 7:43 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am going through this right now. Both of my parents are 87. My mother
> was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer on their 60th wedding anneversary in
> December. She haa gone a round of chemo and 1 week later, Saturday night,
> went in to the hospital with complications. Not sure if she will come out
> again to go home.
I'm very sorry to hear that, Leon. I hope for he best outcome for
her, no matter what that might be. Just no suffering....
> Basically they do
> not want to think about that at all but there is going to come a time that
> they will wish that they had.
And by then, the mole hill has become a mountain. With all the
litigation going on these days, some attorneys want competency
statements and for docs to be notarized in their presence after they
review them with their clients. Imagine what it costs to get your
attorney to spend an hour or two plus travel time to the nursing
home. Ouch!
> Once they reach a certain age you have to initiate and follow through with
> every action for and with them it seems.
I agree. And as a special bonus, my father thinks that when you want
him to do something, you are pushing him around because he is old.
This includes things like reminding him to take his medicine, get
ready for physical therapy, etc. He is sure that at this time in his
life he is victimized and taken advantage of because of his age. He
sees it everywhere.
They haven't lived this comfortably, securely, had less personal
responsibility or eaten this well in YEARS. Almost every aspect of
their lives is being handled now, and they still feel cheated.
After I went to a caregiver's workshop, I realized how normal this all
is for seniors. Now I don't listen that much, and try to focus on
keeping them organized, their bills paid, and their 10,000 doctor's
appts. in order.
Why it was just the other day I told my old white haired pappy (after
30 minutes of solid bitching - my normal personal makeup only
tolerates about two minutes or so then collapses) if he didn't shut up
I was going to tie him in his wheelchair and roll him out into
traffic.
I felt much better.
Robert
On Jan 18, 3:12=A0pm, "basilisk" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 18, 3:44 am, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Not the best thing to be thinking about, but do they both have advance=
d
> >> directives with do not resuscitate orders? If they don't, it might be
> >> nice
> >> for someone on the staff of the care home to discuss it with them.
>
> > Out of respect for basilisk's thread about his loss, I moved my off
> > topic thoughts to a new thread.
>
> > I think it is pertinent information for most of us middle aged guys to
> > be thinking of, so here is my response to LDosser's question. =A0I woul=
d
> > highly advise anyone that will be stuck with sorting out the legal
> > details of their parents or loved ones (or maybe not so loved....) to
> > have a talk with them to make sure these documents are in place.
>
> > My parents "fibbed" to me about having all of this done, and only had
> > in their hands exactly what I had completed for them before. =A0Doing
> > all of this with old, tired and sick people makes this task a thousand
> > times harder (and much more expensive) than it needs to be.
>
> > They still have to sign all the documents, and affidavits, so the big
> > difference is that they have to understand all the details and
> > ramifications of their affairs between illnesses, "down days",
> > doctor's appts., physical and mental therapy, etc. =A0All of it has to
> > be done with brains that have been affected by cancer and chemo,
> > strokes, diabetes, and the onset of dementia.
>
> > And now they have to pay to have the documents transported to them by
> > the attorney for reviews ($$$) and witnessed by a non family member.
> > I think the only ones sicker of this whole process than me is them.
>
> > Some of these documents go out of usefulness since their is new,
> > preferred legal language. =A0Some need to be replaced, some docs need t=
o
> > be updated. =A0<< All of the documents that are generated need to be
> > approved by the facilities they frequent.>> =A0A state approved,
> > federally approved, or a form from Quickbooks Will Maker probably
> > won't do it.
>
> > For example: =A0The hospital that my folks like has a lot of seniors, s=
o
> > in turn have a lot of senior care doctors. =A0BUT, having been sued by
> > their patients enough times, they have their very own set of medical
> > directives. =A0These must be signed and witnessed before every procedur=
e
> > (in addition to the normal hospital disclaimers), and will be on file
> > for 6 months. =A0After that, new docs must be signed, as the hospital
> > told me they aren't in the document archiving business. =A0Additionally=
,
> > their legal staffs update the forms on a routine basis so they want
> > THEIR newest forms on file along with the state promulgated forms.
>
> > Another example is their nursing facility. =A0They are part of a larger
> > state sized chain, and they have their own documents that allow or
> > disallow treatment. =A0They DO NOT want either of them to die there on
> > premises for any reason; with that in mind they have their own forms
> > that are a rider to ours as long as they are on the premises. =A0They
> > cannot "pull the plug" or order any advanced medical treatment, but if
> > either of my folks are ill they can call for transport and move them
> > to a hospital immediately. =A0And without specifying the hospital they
> > want, they take a person to the one they want, even if they have never
> > treated them and have no records there. =A0They get them out as fast as
> > they can to reduce liability.
>
> > ****************************
>
> > They have now have the following either executed or in process, and I
> > would certainly recommend these to everyone that is "of age", whatever
> > that might be, or to have these docs done on behalf of yourself:
>
> > - Do not resuscitate orders
> > - Medical directives to comply with state and local laws to allow for
> > their care and assignment of ability to enact the DNR if they become
> > comatose
> > - Medical Power of Attorney directives that allow commitment to
> > permanent procedures on a treatment as well as monetary payment level
> > - Legal Power of Attorney assignment for certain aspects of their
> > personal lives
> > - Durable Power of Attorney for everything else
> > - All monetary accounts now have a sibling on as cosigners for access
> > - A new/updated will (last one was 5 years old) that spells out their
> > wishes
> > - Most importantly (at least from my standpoint) is a solid, written
> > budget with a financial plan
>
> > Medicaid used to have a 3 year "lookback" to see about your
> > eligibility for their services. =A0It is now a whopping FIVE years, and
> > if you don't plan well, it will bite you hard. =A0My parents should hav=
e
> > started planning years ago, but didn't. =A0Now they live in fear that i=
f
> > they really need heavy medical care, it may not be available.
> > Essentially, we must time the life of their assets to make sure they
> > can continue to get care, but not too much or they won't be Medicaid
> > eligible.
>
> > Now try to plan the medical future of a 84 year old man and woman.
> > Make it more interesting by throwing in years of poor health.
>
> > So my folks are now starting their financial planning (something other
> > than "saving money") now at the ages of 84 for him and 80 for her.
> > Good job!
>
> > My Dad is now stuck trying to understand all the complicated
> > information when he would rather be watching Matlock reruns. =A0Worse,
> > he now has to depend on others to make sure he gets what he wants, and
> > he can't believe they charge for it. =A0And he can't accept the fact
> > that if the attorney changes a document or adds a codicil, there are
> > additional charges incurred.
>
> > All in all, pretty miserable for everyone involved.
>
> > So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now for
> > YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>
> > Robert
>
> I feel for you.
> I see this in my future, Dad is 77, Mom 70, and the excuse
> I hear is "We'll take care of it when the time comes".
> It's just never quite the right time.
>
> basilisk
I have already seen this in my future. We're lucky that we have a
family friend who is a lawyer, and actually one of the decent ones.
We drafted up all the documents about 8 years ago when both my mom and
dad were on the ball enough to know what it was we were trying to do
for them. They gave me 100% power of attorney on all matters with
their wishes outlined in terms of DNR etc.
We had a bit of a party afterwards as they were obviously relieved of
any grief they so badly wanted to avoid for us after they were gone.
My sister getting hurt didn't change a thing.
They're both 88. My mom is a crumpled little thing at 98 pounds, the
osteoporosis has eaten a lot of her away. She once was a 5' 10" Dutch
woman. But her mind is tough as nails. My dad, not so much. Physically
healthy as a bear, his mind has mostly wandered off without him. He
asked me my name. I told him it was Rob. He said: "Heyyy...I have a
son named Rob."
He's happy, well fed, a funnier than ever. He pretends to pull-start
his walker, like a lawn mower and does this every morning. Then walks
to the nurses station and want to pay his hotel bill and reserve a
limo to the airport. Everybody loves him there.
We know _that_ day is coming.
I will never be ready for that.
.
.
Thanks Robert for the good advice. I know it is good advice, I hope
some others will pay attention to it.
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:12:09 -0600, the infamous "basilisk"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>
>><[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> --big snip--
>>> My Dad is now stuck trying to understand all the
complicated
>>> information when he would rather be watching Matlock
reruns. Worse,
>>> he now has to depend on others to make sure he gets what
he wants, and
>>> he can't believe they charge for it. And he can't accept
the fact
>>> that if the attorney changes a document or adds a
codicil, there are
>>> additional charges incurred.
>>>
>>> All in all, pretty miserable for everyone involved.
>>>
>>> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this
done now for
>>> YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>
> Absolutely. After seeing how funds can get tied up in
probate for
> years, sucking up 20%
>
>
>>I feel for you.
>>I see this in my future, Dad is 77, Mom 70, and the excuse
>>I hear is "We'll take care of it when the time comes".
>>It's just never quite the right time.
>
> Not too many people want to face the fact that they're
getting older,
> getting more frail, and that they may soon be sick or
senile. Look at
> the flap about the pamphlet _Your Life, Your Choices_ which
O wanted
> to give to seniors. It was nicknamed the Death Panel book
by critics.
>
> I was going to give you a link for it but it is now
offline. <sigh>
> I found my copy and will email it to anyone wishing a copy.
378KB, 53
> pages. I feel that it's a neutral, informative document on
a subject
> which should be considered IN ADVANCE of any family member
having
> problems, if at all possible.
>
> Read it yourself, and give it to your folks to read. Then
talk,
> relating to them some horror stories about NOT having made
wills or
> durable healthcare directives, then see about getting them
'em into a
> Living Will (this term has now been taken over by
healthcare folks to
> mean advanced healthcare directives, but I mean it in the
originas
> sense.) This keeps their hard earned cash out of the
government's
> hands, too, if they care. Most folks want their legacy to
go to their
> children, not some spendthrift govvy arsebite. I've heard
recently of
> people whose bank accounts have been taken over by the
gov't when the
> elderly family member got sick, but this is
unsubstantiated.
>
Send me a copy as well, bill at welshpembrokecorgis.com
Thanks
basilisk
Would appreciate it if you would send me a copy. e-mail addy:
lujinatsbcglobal.net
Thanks much,
Jim in Milwaukee
Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> --big snip--
>
> I was going to give you a link for it but it is now offline. <sigh>
> I found my copy and will email it to anyone wishing a copy. 378KB, 53
> pages. I feel that it's a neutral, informative document on a subject
> which should be considered IN ADVANCE of any family member having
> problems, if at all possible.
>
> Read it yourself, and give it to your folks to read. Then talk,
> relating to them some horror stories about NOT having made wills or
> durable healthcare directives, then see about getting them 'em into a
> Living Will (this term has now been taken over by healthcare folks to
> mean advanced healthcare directives, but I mean it in the originas
> sense.) This keeps their hard earned cash out of the government's
> hands, too, if they care. Most folks want their legacy to go to their
> children, not some spendthrift govvy arsebite. I've heard recently of
> people whose bank accounts have been taken over by the gov't when the
> elderly family member got sick, but this is unsubstantiated.
>
"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]
september.org:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:306c027d-79a2-4d61-8c27-dcccb0f1e82c@
22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
> snip
>>
>> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now for
>> YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>>
>> Robert
>
>
> Amen to a lot of very good advice. I saved the post.
>
> Thanks,
> LD
Please note:
It is never too early to leave a will, living will, DNR desires, for you
yourself. Once you get (semi)incapacitated it will be much more
difficult. What would you do if had a car accident or your planned
elective surgery goes wrong, and you become a vegetable?
Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
And make your living will/DNR instructions part of your medical record!!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected] september.org:
>>
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:306c027d-79a2-4d61-8c27-dcccb0f1e82c@
>> 22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>>> snip
>>>>
>>>> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now
>>>> for YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>>>>
>>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>> Amen to a lot of very good advice. I saved the post.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> LD
>>
>> Please note:
>> It is never too early to leave a will, living will, DNR desires, for
>> you yourself. Once you get (semi)incapacitated it will be much more
>> difficult. What would you do if had a car accident or your planned
>> elective surgery goes wrong, and you become a vegetable?
>>
>> Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
>> And make your living will/DNR instructions part of your medical
>> record!!
>
> I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in
> about 8 hours!
Good luck!!
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:889159c6-e8e2-4ce1-8386-9b872c97b402@e37g2000yqn.googlegroups.com:
> On Jan 18, 5:03 pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Please note:
>> It is never too early to leave a will, living will, DNR desires, for
>> you yourself. Once you get (semi)incapacitated it will be much more
>> difficult. What would you do if had a car accident or your planned
>> elective surgery goes wrong, and you become a vegetable?
>>
>> Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
>
> Very true.
>
> We did a lot of this a few years ago (about 5 - 6 ) but the needs of
> the hospitals and treatment centers have changed so much we still had
> to rework every agreement.
>
> I have a friend of mine doing this for my folks, and he said it is
> important to have all docs reviewed and rewritten as needed every
> three to five years. Not so much wills, but in particular the ones
> that deal with medical issues.
>
> If there was one thing that I regret about whole affair, it is not
> really pressing them hard to get their affairs in order before now. I
> asked them, talked to them about it, even set them up with an attorney
> to get it done. They would never do anything other than the most
> rudimentary documents, and never took care of all the ancillary docs
> that make life easier for all.
>
> I kept DNRs and Medical POAs in larger red folders in their house
> hanging near doorways that said: FOR EMS ATTENDANTS in large
> letters. The EMS guys loved it.
>
> I thought we were all on the same page of keeping the info updated and
> taking care of finances, etc., but one day it all stopped, and they
> folks were no longer interested.
>
> I should have kept after them and done all I could to get them to take
> care of this stuff earlier.
>
> And as has been pointed out, when you really need these docs, it can
> be too late. I am not sure what my father was waiting for, maybe some
> kind of signal, but even at 80 he wouldn't go and sit with the
> attorney to get his legal and financial affairs in order.
>
> I thought he might be thinking he was facing death, and he assured me
> that wasn't it. He just wasn't going to do it, and that was that.
>
> I should never have let up the pressure. The other side of that coin
> was that I never, ever, thought it would be me taking care of these
> matters. Never.
>
> But due to bad attitudes, foul language, raised voices, accusations or
> near abuse, and a healthy dose of game playing by my folks, both
> sisters pulled out of the project.
>
> For me, that doesn't make this project much different than running a
> construction job. And I must say, neither of my parents have seen the
> foul tempered, nasty disposition of a job site foreman side of my
> personality in person. I don't think they really like it much at
> all. But at this stage, all of this has proven too much for my
> sisters, so it all falls to me.
>
> And every time we "come to it" all I can think about it how
> unnecessary doing all of this now is for both camps.
>
> Once again, I would never have let this go if I though >> I << was
> going to be in charge. I would have found a way to have them do this
> themselves, and even though it can be depressing and ugly subject
> matter, all of it would be behind them, nothing more than an
> unpleasant memory.
>
> Too late now, though.
>
> I know that once I get this parent stuff behind me, I am going to work
> on updating all of my paperwork as well.
>
> Robert
I do feel your pain, Robert. I was lucky in that my sister was
receptive and (as a real estate broker-type) knowledgeable of legal
issues in general. Although, she being in France, me in the US, and our
parents in Holland, it was a phone relay most of the time. I also was
lucky in that my parents did have the DNR-type stuff documented.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I am going through this right now. Both of my parents are 87. My
> mother was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer on their 60th wedding
> anneversary in December. She haa gone a round of chemo and 1 week
> later, Saturday night, went in to the hospital with complications.
> Not sure if she will come out again to go home. They both have will's
> and I talked to them about a living will as did the doctor. So far
> they have not made one. Basically they do not want to think about
> that at all but there is going to come a time that they will wish
> that they had.
>
> Once they reach a certain age you have to initiate and follow through
> with every action for and with them it seems.
My parents had already expressed the wish not to have their lives extended
at the cost of only more suffering. My sister and I had to discuss this
for my father's case when I thought the time had come. It wasn't nice, and
I am still wondering at times. I am sure I/we made the right decision, but
there is always that nagging doubt of what if.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:13:05 -0600, the infamous Jim in Milwaukee
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>
>>Would appreciate it if you would send me a copy. e-mail addy:
>>lujinatsbcglobal.net
>>
>>Thanks much,
>
> Done, files to Jim and Basilisk.
>
The file was found by google:
Search term:"Your Life, Your Choices"
http://stevebuyer.house.gov/UploadedFiles/your_life_your_choices.pdf
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
<snip>
>>
>> My parents had already expressed the wish not to have their lives
>> extended at the cost of only more suffering. My sister and I had to
>> discuss this for my father's case when I thought the time had come.
>> It wasn't nice, and I am still wondering at times. I am sure I/we made
>> the right decision, but there is always that nagging doubt of what if.
>
> Han, your heart felt decision was the correct one at the time, that is
> all that matters. Don't dwell on the past, it does you no good.
I know, Leon, and I appreciate your saying so. It /WAS/ the right
decision.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 21 Jan 2010 11:23:49 GMT, the infamous Han <[email protected]>
> scrawled the following:
>
>>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
>>news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:13:05 -0600, the infamous Jim in Milwaukee
>>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Would appreciate it if you would send me a copy. e-mail addy:
>>>>lujinatsbcglobal.net
>>>>
>>>>Thanks much,
>>>
>>> Done, files to Jim and Basilisk.
>>>
>>The file was found by google:
>>Search term:"Your Life, Your Choices"
>>
>>http://stevebuyer.house.gov/UploadedFiles/your_life_your_choices.pdf
>
> Oh, good. The gov't, in their infinite wisdom, saw fit to remove it
> from their VA website and the VHA sites.
>
> Now, does anyone think it's horrible, scary, or mean?
What do you think, Larry? You didn't suddenly become shy, did you
<grin>?
I do not think that prolonging breathing is necessarily a good thing, au
contraire. I think living is worth while, if it is really living.
OTOH, this is a rather personal thing, so if you are willing to pay, do
as you wish. Just make sure the person is in favor of what is going to
happen to him or her.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I am going through this right now. Both of my parents are 87. My
>> mother was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer on their 60th wedding
>> anneversary in December. She haa gone a round of chemo and 1 week
>> later, Saturday night, went in to the hospital with complications.
>> Not sure if she will come out again to go home. They both have will's
>> and I talked to them about a living will as did the doctor. So far
>> they have not made one. Basically they do not want to think about
>> that at all but there is going to come a time that they will wish
>> that they had.
>>
>> Once they reach a certain age you have to initiate and follow through
>> with every action for and with them it seems.
>
> My parents had already expressed the wish not to have their lives extended
> at the cost of only more suffering. My sister and I had to discuss this
> for my father's case when I thought the time had come. It wasn't nice,
> and
> I am still wondering at times. I am sure I/we made the right decision,
> but
> there is always that nagging doubt of what if.
Han, your heart felt decision was the correct one at the time, that is all
that matters. Don't dwell on the past, it does you no good.
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:41:00 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:59:46 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>>> I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in
>>>>> about 8 hours!
>>>>
>>>> Good luck!!
>>>>
>>>
>>>Well, That worked! Got at at 3pm today. C5-6 discectomy and fusion.
>>
>> Definite suckage! Well, no more yogic headstands for you, boy.
>
>That should have been "got out" ...
Oh, I had thought that was merely a Texican accent.
>I guess I can still do a high colonic.
I shudder just thinking about that one. "Get that FIRE HOSE away from
me, lady!"
--
The greatest fine art of the future will be the making
of a comfortable living from a small piece of land.
--Abraham Lincoln
On Jan 18, 2:12=A0pm, "basilisk" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
> > On Jan 18, 3:44 am, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >> Not the best thing to be thinking about, but do they both have advance=
d
> >> directives with do not resuscitate orders? If they don't, it might be
> >> nice
> >> for someone on the staff of the care home to discuss it with them.
>
> > Out of respect for basilisk's thread about his loss, I moved my off
> > topic thoughts to a new thread.
>
> > I think it is pertinent information for most of us middle aged guys to
> > be thinking of, so here is my response to LDosser's question. =A0I woul=
d
> > highly advise anyone that will be stuck with sorting out the legal
> > details of their parents or loved ones (or maybe not so loved....) to
> > have a talk with them to make sure these documents are in place.
>
> > My parents "fibbed" to me about having all of this done, and only had
> > in their hands exactly what I had completed for them before. =A0Doing
> > all of this with old, tired and sick people makes this task a thousand
> > times harder (and much more expensive) than it needs to be.
>
> > They still have to sign all the documents, and affidavits, so the big
> > difference is that they have to understand all the details and
> > ramifications of their affairs between illnesses, "down days",
> > doctor's appts., physical and mental therapy, etc. =A0All of it has to
> > be done with brains that have been affected by cancer and chemo,
> > strokes, diabetes, and the onset of dementia.
>
> > And now they have to pay to have the documents transported to them by
> > the attorney for reviews ($$$) and witnessed by a non family member.
> > I think the only ones sicker of this whole process than me is them.
>
> > Some of these documents go out of usefulness since their is new,
> > preferred legal language. =A0Some need to be replaced, some docs need t=
o
> > be updated. =A0<< All of the documents that are generated need to be
> > approved by the facilities they frequent.>> =A0A state approved,
> > federally approved, or a form from Quickbooks Will Maker probably
> > won't do it.
>
> > For example: =A0The hospital that my folks like has a lot of seniors, s=
o
> > in turn have a lot of senior care doctors. =A0BUT, having been sued by
> > their patients enough times, they have their very own set of medical
> > directives. =A0These must be signed and witnessed before every procedur=
e
> > (in addition to the normal hospital disclaimers), and will be on file
> > for 6 months. =A0After that, new docs must be signed, as the hospital
> > told me they aren't in the document archiving business. =A0Additionally=
,
> > their legal staffs update the forms on a routine basis so they want
> > THEIR newest forms on file along with the state promulgated forms.
>
> > Another example is their nursing facility. =A0They are part of a larger
> > state sized chain, and they have their own documents that allow or
> > disallow treatment. =A0They DO NOT want either of them to die there on
> > premises for any reason; with that in mind they have their own forms
> > that are a rider to ours as long as they are on the premises. =A0They
> > cannot "pull the plug" or order any advanced medical treatment, but if
> > either of my folks are ill they can call for transport and move them
> > to a hospital immediately. =A0And without specifying the hospital they
> > want, they take a person to the one they want, even if they have never
> > treated them and have no records there. =A0They get them out as fast as
> > they can to reduce liability.
>
> > ****************************
>
> > They have now have the following either executed or in process, and I
> > would certainly recommend these to everyone that is "of age", whatever
> > that might be, or to have these docs done on behalf of yourself:
>
> > - Do not resuscitate orders
> > - Medical directives to comply with state and local laws to allow for
> > their care and assignment of ability to enact the DNR if they become
> > comatose
> > - Medical Power of Attorney directives that allow commitment to
> > permanent procedures on a treatment as well as monetary payment level
> > - Legal Power of Attorney assignment for certain aspects of their
> > personal lives
> > - Durable Power of Attorney for everything else
> > - All monetary accounts now have a sibling on as cosigners for access
> > - A new/updated will (last one was 5 years old) that spells out their
> > wishes
> > - Most importantly (at least from my standpoint) is a solid, written
> > budget with a financial plan
>
> > Medicaid used to have a 3 year "lookback" to see about your
> > eligibility for their services. =A0It is now a whopping FIVE years, and
> > if you don't plan well, it will bite you hard. =A0My parents should hav=
e
> > started planning years ago, but didn't. =A0Now they live in fear that i=
f
> > they really need heavy medical care, it may not be available.
> > Essentially, we must time the life of their assets to make sure they
> > can continue to get care, but not too much or they won't be Medicaid
> > eligible.
>
> > Now try to plan the medical future of a 84 year old man and woman.
> > Make it more interesting by throwing in years of poor health.
>
> > So my folks are now starting their financial planning (something other
> > than "saving money") now at the ages of 84 for him and 80 for her.
> > Good job!
>
> > My Dad is now stuck trying to understand all the complicated
> > information when he would rather be watching Matlock reruns. =A0Worse,
> > he now has to depend on others to make sure he gets what he wants, and
> > he can't believe they charge for it. =A0And he can't accept the fact
> > that if the attorney changes a document or adds a codicil, there are
> > additional charges incurred.
>
> > All in all, pretty miserable for everyone involved.
>
> > So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now for
> > YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>
> > Robert
>
> I feel for you.
> I see this in my future, Dad is 77, Mom 70, and the excuse
> I hear is "We'll take care of it when the time comes".
> It's just never quite the right time.
>
For the last ten years, or more, of my mother's life she had a DNR
notice posted on her refrigerator. When I first saw it I was rather
taken aback (we didn't live in the area and my brother took care of
her financial and medical details). It didn't take too long for me to
get over the thought, though. She died at 95 in December of '08.
Turns out that since she died in my brother's home (he'd pulled her
out of the senior home nine months before) the DNR solved all sorts of
other possible legal problems, as well as the obvious.
When my father died, 45ish years ago, there were all sorts of issues,
including my own mother needing to "adopt" me. Her bank accounts were
frozen as well as any saftey deposig boxes. It was a mess for a
while, and she had no (access to) money in the interim. My brother
made sure that all of these details were taken care of (no ugly
probate, no legal hassles of any kind, nothing). For that, I am
grateful for both of them.
On Jan 19, 1:52=A0am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Jan 18, 5:03=A0pm, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> I know that once I get this parent stuff behind me, I am going to work
> on updating all of my paperwork as well.
>
> Robert
Very true stuff. My mother and father-in-law were the first to start
decline. My mother suffered several minor strokes and was finally
diagnosed with Alzheimer's when she was about 80. Her doctor said it
might be the degenerative effects of strokes but the Alzheimer
diagnoses put her in a better care mode with nursing care facilities.
By the time the social folks started talking about durable power of
attorney she was probably beyond the point of reasoning but they,
basically, turned their heads when she signed the directives. Pretty
much similar story with the father-in-law but he only lingered about a
year. Mom went four years in and out of care facilities. We made
sure all of the decisions were laid out and documented with the other
two parents; and after watching their spouses degenerate they were
very supportive....well mostly.
Getting your act together is among the best things you can do for your
offspring. When things are going to hell in a hand-basket is the
wrong time to have to suffer through end-of-life planning and
directives. Some people seem to think that a DNR is a death sentence
for a loved one. Not true. Health care workers are run by lawyers
too. They will not let a person pass just because they have a DNR
order. During my father-in-law's last few months, my wife had to
iterated the family's DNR expectation to nursing home personnel no
less than three separate occasions; and he recovered briefly from two
of the episodes. Not fun for the caregiver but the point is, health
workers aren't going to let someone die from a hangnail because of
DNR.
Depending on state laws, nursing care financing should be thought out
too. I am not a big supporter of long-term-care insurance because
most people do not outlive the premium they put into a plan. My
mother-in-law would have because she was in independent or nursing
care for six years. My father and father-in-law a combined 1-1/2
years. My point is; before the problems start, take time to
understand costs, your parents assets and how long one of them can
afford to pay for nursing care. Most states allow division of assets
(essentially a financial divorce); and you should have a game plan in
mind regarding the $-point when you visit the SRS folks to get
division started. BTW, in Kansas it took several months, and checks
were being written during the process. Also, regarding long-term care
insurance the insurance companies play scare games that not fully
supportable (We were getting good nursing care for parents for about
$30K/year, not the $60-70K cited by insurance carriers).
Again, getting your health act together can be the best things you do
for your offspring or caregivers.
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 14:12:09 -0600, the infamous "basilisk"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
><[email protected]> wrote in message
--big snip--
>> My Dad is now stuck trying to understand all the complicated
>> information when he would rather be watching Matlock reruns. Worse,
>> he now has to depend on others to make sure he gets what he wants, and
>> he can't believe they charge for it. And he can't accept the fact
>> that if the attorney changes a document or adds a codicil, there are
>> additional charges incurred.
>>
>> All in all, pretty miserable for everyone involved.
>>
>> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now for
>> YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
Absolutely. After seeing how funds can get tied up in probate for
years, sucking up 20%
>I feel for you.
>I see this in my future, Dad is 77, Mom 70, and the excuse
>I hear is "We'll take care of it when the time comes".
>It's just never quite the right time.
Not too many people want to face the fact that they're getting older,
getting more frail, and that they may soon be sick or senile. Look at
the flap about the pamphlet _Your Life, Your Choices_ which O wanted
to give to seniors. It was nicknamed the Death Panel book by critics.
I was going to give you a link for it but it is now offline. <sigh>
I found my copy and will email it to anyone wishing a copy. 378KB, 53
pages. I feel that it's a neutral, informative document on a subject
which should be considered IN ADVANCE of any family member having
problems, if at all possible.
Read it yourself, and give it to your folks to read. Then talk,
relating to them some horror stories about NOT having made wills or
durable healthcare directives, then see about getting them 'em into a
Living Will (this term has now been taken over by healthcare folks to
mean advanced healthcare directives, but I mean it in the originas
sense.) This keeps their hard earned cash out of the government's
hands, too, if they care. Most folks want their legacy to go to their
children, not some spendthrift govvy arsebite. I've heard recently of
people whose bank accounts have been taken over by the gov't when the
elderly family member got sick, but this is unsubstantiated.
--
The greatest fine art of the future will be the making
of a comfortable living from a small piece of land.
--Abraham Lincoln
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:13:05 -0600, the infamous Jim in Milwaukee
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>Would appreciate it if you would send me a copy. e-mail addy:
>lujinatsbcglobal.net
>
>Thanks much,
Done, files to Jim and Basilisk.
--
The greatest fine art of the future will be the making
of a comfortable living from a small piece of land.
--Abraham Lincoln
I am going through this right now. Both of my parents are 87. My mother
was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer on their 60th wedding anneversary in
December. She haa gone a round of chemo and 1 week later, Saturday night,
went in to the hospital with complications. Not sure if she will come out
again to go home. They both have will's and I talked to them about a living
will as did the doctor. So far they have not made one. Basically they do
not want to think about that at all but there is going to come a time that
they will wish that they had.
Once they reach a certain age you have to initiate and follow through with
every action for and with them it seems.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
snip
>
> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now for
> YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>
> Robert
Amen to a lot of very good advice. I saved the post.
Thanks,
LD
"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]
> september.org:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:306c027d-79a2-4d61-8c27-dcccb0f1e82c@
> 22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>> snip
>>>
>>> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now for
>>> YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>
>>
>> Amen to a lot of very good advice. I saved the post.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> LD
>
> Please note:
> It is never too early to leave a will, living will, DNR desires, for you
> yourself. Once you get (semi)incapacitated it will be much more
> difficult. What would you do if had a car accident or your planned
> elective surgery goes wrong, and you become a vegetable?
>
> Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
> And make your living will/DNR instructions part of your medical record!!
I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in about 8
hours!
"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected] september.org:
>>>
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:306c027d-79a2-4d61-8c27-dcccb0f1e82c@
>>> 22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>>>> snip
>>>>>
>>>>> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now
>>>>> for YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amen to a lot of very good advice. I saved the post.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> LD
>>>
>>> Please note:
>>> It is never too early to leave a will, living will, DNR desires, for
>>> you yourself. Once you get (semi)incapacitated it will be much more
>>> difficult. What would you do if had a car accident or your planned
>>> elective surgery goes wrong, and you become a vegetable?
>>>
>>> Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
>>> And make your living will/DNR instructions part of your medical
>>> record!!
>>
>> I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in
>> about 8 hours!
>
> Good luck!!
>
Well, That worked! Got at at 3pm today. C5-6 discectomy and fusion.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:59:46 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>
>>>> I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in
>>>> about 8 hours!
>>>
>>> Good luck!!
>>>
>>
>>Well, That worked! Got at at 3pm today. C5-6 discectomy and fusion.
>
> Definite suckage! Well, no more yogic headstands for you, boy.
That should have been "got out" ...
I guess I can still do a high colonic.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:41:00 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>> On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 19:59:46 -0800, the infamous "LDosser"
>>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>>
>>>>"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>>>> I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in
>>>>>> about 8 hours!
>>>>>
>>>>> Good luck!!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Well, That worked! Got at at 3pm today. C5-6 discectomy and fusion.
>>>
>>> Definite suckage! Well, no more yogic headstands for you, boy.
>>
>>That should have been "got out" ...
>
> Oh, I had thought that was merely a Texican accent.
>
>
>>I guess I can still do a high colonic.
>
> I shudder just thinking about that one. "Get that FIRE HOSE away from
> me, lady!"
\
But what a name for a band!
"Doug Winterburn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> LDosser wrote:
>> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected] september.org:
>>>>>
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:306c027d-79a2-4d61-8c27-dcccb0f1e82c@
>>>>> 22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>> snip
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now
>>>>>>> for YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Amen to a lot of very good advice. I saved the post.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> LD
>>>>>
>>>>> Please note:
>>>>> It is never too early to leave a will, living will, DNR desires, for
>>>>> you yourself. Once you get (semi)incapacitated it will be much more
>>>>> difficult. What would you do if had a car accident or your planned
>>>>> elective surgery goes wrong, and you become a vegetable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
>>>>> And make your living will/DNR instructions part of your medical
>>>>> record!!
>>>>
>>>> I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in
>>>> about 8 hours!
>>>
>>> Good luck!!
>>>
>>
>> Well, That worked! Got at at 3pm today. C5-6 discectomy and fusion.
>
> Mine was a C-3,4,5 fusion somewhere around 1961. Being an (American)
> football star (in my mind) sucked. Fortunately, no more horsepital visits
> until '05 where I had a 1' colon shortening which was also no fun at all
> (except it beat the alternative)!
Ouch!
On Mon, 18 Jan 2010 23:52:28 -0800 (PST), the infamous
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> scrawled the
following:
>Once again, I would never have let this go if I though >> I << was
>going to be in charge. I would have found a way to have them do this
>themselves, and even though it can be depressing and ugly subject
>matter, all of it would be behind them, nothing more than an
>unpleasant memory.
>
>Too late now, though.
I hear ya.
>I know that once I get this parent stuff behind me, I am going to work
>on updating all of my paperwork as well.
Do that now. Get yours in order and take it to your folks' house to
show them that you, too, need to have them and you have done so now,
before it's too late. It makes a big impression on people to see that
in print because it's scary stuff, reviewing our humanity, our
frailties.
--
The greatest fine art of the future will be the making
of a comfortable living from a small piece of land.
--Abraham Lincoln
On 21 Jan 2010 11:23:49 GMT, the infamous Han <[email protected]>
scrawled the following:
>Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 14:13:05 -0600, the infamous Jim in Milwaukee
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>
>>>Would appreciate it if you would send me a copy. e-mail addy:
>>>lujinatsbcglobal.net
>>>
>>>Thanks much,
>>
>> Done, files to Jim and Basilisk.
>>
>The file was found by google:
>Search term:"Your Life, Your Choices"
>
>http://stevebuyer.house.gov/UploadedFiles/your_life_your_choices.pdf
Oh, good. The gov't, in their infinite wisdom, saw fit to remove it
from their VA website and the VHA sites.
Now, does anyone think it's horrible, scary, or mean?
--
The greatest fine art of the future will be the making
of a comfortable living from a small piece of land.
--Abraham Lincoln
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Jan 18, 3:44 am, "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Not the best thing to be thinking about, but do they both have advanced
>> directives with do not resuscitate orders? If they don't, it might be
>> nice
>> for someone on the staff of the care home to discuss it with them.
>
> Out of respect for basilisk's thread about his loss, I moved my off
> topic thoughts to a new thread.
>
> I think it is pertinent information for most of us middle aged guys to
> be thinking of, so here is my response to LDosser's question. I would
> highly advise anyone that will be stuck with sorting out the legal
> details of their parents or loved ones (or maybe not so loved....) to
> have a talk with them to make sure these documents are in place.
>
> My parents "fibbed" to me about having all of this done, and only had
> in their hands exactly what I had completed for them before. Doing
> all of this with old, tired and sick people makes this task a thousand
> times harder (and much more expensive) than it needs to be.
>
> They still have to sign all the documents, and affidavits, so the big
> difference is that they have to understand all the details and
> ramifications of their affairs between illnesses, "down days",
> doctor's appts., physical and mental therapy, etc. All of it has to
> be done with brains that have been affected by cancer and chemo,
> strokes, diabetes, and the onset of dementia.
>
> And now they have to pay to have the documents transported to them by
> the attorney for reviews ($$$) and witnessed by a non family member.
> I think the only ones sicker of this whole process than me is them.
>
> Some of these documents go out of usefulness since their is new,
> preferred legal language. Some need to be replaced, some docs need to
> be updated. << All of the documents that are generated need to be
> approved by the facilities they frequent.>> A state approved,
> federally approved, or a form from Quickbooks Will Maker probably
> won't do it.
>
> For example: The hospital that my folks like has a lot of seniors, so
> in turn have a lot of senior care doctors. BUT, having been sued by
> their patients enough times, they have their very own set of medical
> directives. These must be signed and witnessed before every procedure
> (in addition to the normal hospital disclaimers), and will be on file
> for 6 months. After that, new docs must be signed, as the hospital
> told me they aren't in the document archiving business. Additionally,
> their legal staffs update the forms on a routine basis so they want
> THEIR newest forms on file along with the state promulgated forms.
>
> Another example is their nursing facility. They are part of a larger
> state sized chain, and they have their own documents that allow or
> disallow treatment. They DO NOT want either of them to die there on
> premises for any reason; with that in mind they have their own forms
> that are a rider to ours as long as they are on the premises. They
> cannot "pull the plug" or order any advanced medical treatment, but if
> either of my folks are ill they can call for transport and move them
> to a hospital immediately. And without specifying the hospital they
> want, they take a person to the one they want, even if they have never
> treated them and have no records there. They get them out as fast as
> they can to reduce liability.
>
>
> ****************************
>
> They have now have the following either executed or in process, and I
> would certainly recommend these to everyone that is "of age", whatever
> that might be, or to have these docs done on behalf of yourself:
>
> - Do not resuscitate orders
> - Medical directives to comply with state and local laws to allow for
> their care and assignment of ability to enact the DNR if they become
> comatose
> - Medical Power of Attorney directives that allow commitment to
> permanent procedures on a treatment as well as monetary payment level
> - Legal Power of Attorney assignment for certain aspects of their
> personal lives
> - Durable Power of Attorney for everything else
> - All monetary accounts now have a sibling on as cosigners for access
> - A new/updated will (last one was 5 years old) that spells out their
> wishes
> - Most importantly (at least from my standpoint) is a solid, written
> budget with a financial plan
>
> Medicaid used to have a 3 year "lookback" to see about your
> eligibility for their services. It is now a whopping FIVE years, and
> if you don't plan well, it will bite you hard. My parents should have
> started planning years ago, but didn't. Now they live in fear that if
> they really need heavy medical care, it may not be available.
> Essentially, we must time the life of their assets to make sure they
> can continue to get care, but not too much or they won't be Medicaid
> eligible.
>
> Now try to plan the medical future of a 84 year old man and woman.
> Make it more interesting by throwing in years of poor health.
>
> So my folks are now starting their financial planning (something other
> than "saving money") now at the ages of 84 for him and 80 for her.
> Good job!
>
> My Dad is now stuck trying to understand all the complicated
> information when he would rather be watching Matlock reruns. Worse,
> he now has to depend on others to make sure he gets what he wants, and
> he can't believe they charge for it. And he can't accept the fact
> that if the attorney changes a document or adds a codicil, there are
> additional charges incurred.
>
> All in all, pretty miserable for everyone involved.
>
> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now for
> YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>
> Robert
I feel for you.
I see this in my future, Dad is 77, Mom 70, and the excuse
I hear is "We'll take care of it when the time comes".
It's just never quite the right time.
basilisk
LDosser wrote:
> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> "Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>> "LDosser" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>> news:[email protected] september.org:
>>>>
>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>> news:306c027d-79a2-4d61-8c27-dcccb0f1e82c@
>>>> 22g2000yqr.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> snip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So again... if I could encourage any of you to get this done now
>>>>>> for YOU and YOURS, I certainly will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Amen to a lot of very good advice. I saved the post.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> LD
>>>>
>>>> Please note:
>>>> It is never too early to leave a will, living will, DNR desires, for
>>>> you yourself. Once you get (semi)incapacitated it will be much more
>>>> difficult. What would you do if had a car accident or your planned
>>>> elective surgery goes wrong, and you become a vegetable?
>>>>
>>>> Do not put off until tomorrow what you can do today.
>>>> And make your living will/DNR instructions part of your medical
>>>> record!!
>>>
>>> I have an advanced directive and happen to be having some surgery in
>>> about 8 hours!
>>
>> Good luck!!
>>
>
> Well, That worked! Got at at 3pm today. C5-6 discectomy and fusion.
Mine was a C-3,4,5 fusion somewhere around 1961. Being an (American)
football star (in my mind) sucked. Fortunately, no more horsepital
visits until '05 where I had a 1' colon shortening which was also no fun
at all (except it beat the alternative)!