x-no-archive:yes
Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
Let's propitiate JOAT's gods with the idea, too, that walnut lightens
(relatively speaking) over time, while cherry darkens (but you can be
talking lots of years before two similar pieces, one of walnut and one
of cherry, pass each other on the way up or down. For what's it's
worth, I've NEVER seen real cherry, without stain, the color of the
furniture sold as cherry "stained" these days. It just never really
turns black (well, yeah: in a fire).
I've worked a fair amount with both, tend to prefer cherry (mainly
because it used to be cheaper around here than walnut), but agree with
Swingman's analysis. One slight addenda: walnut is more of an
open-pored wood, so finishes best for most purposes with grain filler
before staining (ugh) or coating.
william kossack wrote:
> what ever you do don't go the route a friend used recently
>
> He had a bookcase built from Maple stained to look like cherry. For a
> book case I'd go with veneer plywood edged with strips of real wood.
> The plywood will be far more stable, stonger, and cost a bunch less.
> The friend used real maple and had it stained cherry to match the other
> wood in the room. A consideration on furniture is how will it look with
> the other pieces in the room. Imagine the cherry in a room with oak
> furniture. My SWMBO would say no and want oak.
>
So are you saying it was a mistake to use Maple instead of plywood or a
mistake
to try to stain Maple to look like Cherry? I have a friend that worked
in a furniture factory (until it was sent overseas). He said all their
"cherry" was really just maple stained like cherry.
stryped wrote:
> Was not sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
Cheap doesn't matter so much...but sharp does. Like many have said,
cherry has a strong tendency to burn, so when I saw it I frequently
leave an extra 1/16th on it to be taken off with jointer/sander/plane.
I've never had a problem burning it with a router, though. I have a
variable speed router, and I use it with a relatively faster feed rate
and lower RPM. Jointers and planers aren't an issue either.
Walnut is beautiful, but cherry is my favorite. Pound for pound the
best character of any wood I've yet used. YMMV.
One other thing with walnut: Around here (SE Michigan) almost all of
it has been steam-dried. (If that seems like a contradiction in terms,
you'll just have to trust me on this one.) Since walnut has been so
badly over-harvested, it's very difficult to find boards of a decent
width that don't have sapwood. (They're really cutting some young
trees now, and walnut trees by their nature have a lot of sapwood
anyway.)
However, in order to attempt to blend walnut's heartwood with its
sapwood, they introduce steam into the drying process. This darkens
the sapwood to some extent.
It doesn't work very well, and if you take much off the surface of the
board you will completely negate the effects of the "blending." The
bottom line is that you *think* you're getting a board of uniform
color, but once you cut through the surface you'll realize you haven't.
So be careful when you buy walnut, especially if you're not buying S2S.
Talk to your dealer and ask if the wood's been steam-dried. (If he
doesn't know what you're talking about, get another dealer.) My dealer
warned me about it the first time he saw me poking through the walnut
bin. He's asked his supplier to knock it off, but they won't.
Cherry, too, has a lot of sapwood, but you can see it a mile away.
I would concur with this assessment. Walnut is a pleasure to work with
hand-tools, in particular. At times, I found myself hand-planing boards
just because I could. :) Maybe it's because the shavings looked like
chocolate on the floor?
Clint
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:XlNtg.6$Lw.1@trnddc07...
> stryped wrote:
>> x-no-archive:yes
>>
>> Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
>> some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
>> I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
>> grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
>> sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
>
> Walnut is easier - softer, doesn't tend to burn like cherry/maple - but
> not
> necessarily "better". Personally, it's my favorite wood.
>
> --
>
> dadiOH
> ____________________________
>
> dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
> ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
> LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
> Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
>
>
>
Both machine well but I would lean a little toward Walnut. That is probably
a personal preference more than anything. It seems like cherry burns a
little easier (or at least it shows it more on the lighter wood). In our
area, SE KS, Walnut is native and a little cheaper.
BTW, two of my first serious woodworking projects were clocks, one mantel
and one long-case schoolhouse clock. Both Walnut.
RonB
"ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> But I
> think it is self defeating attitude to build a project out of inferior
> material.
You just explained a lot with that statement.
"stryped" wrote in message
> Which is easier for a newbie to work with?
I use a lot of walnut, and not that much cherry, but about the only
differences I've noticed in working with it is cherry has a tendency to burn
when cutting, routing, so sharp tools are a must; and walnut is harder to
finish if you have a lot of sapwood.
As far matching existing decor, if you want a darker end product, use
walnut. Keeps Joat's woodworking gods pacified.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06
"stryped" wrote:
>Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
>some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
>I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
>grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
>sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
A couple of thoughts:
1) You go home with who ever took you to the dance. In this case, your
tools. Don't berate them.
Add to them, retire them, but don't berate them.
2)Pick whatever wood you like for a project.
For that project, it will be the "easiest" wood to work, because you
WANT to work with it.
IMHO, 90% of any project is ATTITUDE.
Off the box.
Lew
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
> some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
> I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
> grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
> sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
>
Maybe neither. If you are unsure of your skills and your tools, make a
prototype in pine first.
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
> some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
> I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
> grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
> sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
Walnut is easier - softer, doesn't tend to burn like cherry/maple - but not
necessarily "better". Personally, it's my favorite wood.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
dadiOH's dandies v3.06...
...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from
LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that.
Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico
"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in news:1152882464.871531.298730
@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Which is easier for a newbie to work with?
There isn't really a good answer to this. Both are fairly easy
to work, with either hand tools or machines. Cherry is rather
more prone to tearout and chipping, and is sometimes weak along
the grain, moreso than walnut (so be careful if you've got some
detail that involves a bit of short grain). Cherry will burn
very readily if you've got a dull router bit or are clumsy with
a sander.
Walnut is mildly toxic, and some people are very sensistive to
the dust/shavings. You may find you want to wear a dust mask
anytime you're working with walnut, which isn't necessary with
cherry (unless you're power sanding, spraying finish, etc).
For a very easy to work wood, you might consider mahogany. It
would make a very nice looking clock, IMO.
John
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
<snip>
> Perhaps you have all the woodworking skills you will ever need so you
> have no reason to do a test setup. Good for you, but some of us still
> like to try things out. Cheaply
>
I was getting started 5 or 6 years ago, never having built a cabinet, but
having just laid out some serious cash for a new Shopsmith. (Yes, I've
learned. Money gone.) We wanted an entertainment center for the master
bedroom, and so I built one from baltic birch plywood. Too big. Took it
apart, and rebuilt it smaller, and more accessible for the not terribly
large bedroom. Painted it sage green.
My wife loves it. She shows it off to everyone who comes to visit, even 6
years and who knows how many tables, clocks, boxes and bedframes later. If
she wants one in oak or cherry, she's never let me know. When I suggest
that I do 'the final', she comes up with more important projects for my
time and tools.
Good thing about that prototype. Paint covers a multitude of sins. I'd do
it again, no problem. The learning is the fun part. The prototype kitchen
cabinets are in the bathrooms and in my garage shop. Someday, maybe soon.
Enjoy your work.
Patriarch
what ever you do don't go the route a friend used recently
He had a bookcase built from Maple stained to look like cherry. For a
book case I'd go with veneer plywood edged with strips of real wood.
The plywood will be far more stable, stonger, and cost a bunch less.
The friend used real maple and had it stained cherry to match the other
wood in the room. A consideration on furniture is how will it look with
the other pieces in the room. Imagine the cherry in a room with oak
furniture. My SWMBO would say no and want oak.
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
> some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
> I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
> grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
> sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
>
stryped wrote:
> x-no-archive:yes
>
> Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
> some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
> I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
> grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
> sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
Both look good when finished. i just hate the mess of working with walnut,
but I am speaking more as a turner than doing case work. Even in case
work, walnut is "nasty" the dust and shavings stain the hands and anything
else they come in contact with. Buuuuttttt, the finished product is worth
it.
Personal preference is ash. But each has their own, don't they?
Deb
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:06:07 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Maybe neither. If you are unsure of your skills and your tools, make a
>prototype in pine first.
I'd strongly agree with that, but only up to a point.
Pine, unless you get a particularly good grade, just isn't a nice
timber to work with for fine cabinetry. Softwood is too coarse and
flimsy in small sections and it's actually harder to do good fine work
in it.
If your skills are moderate and you have affordable timber, then treat
yourself to cherry or walnut and enjoy yourself - they're both lovely
timbers. If your skills are just begining though, don't risk wasting a
nice board - go with something cheaper. But not quite as lowly as pine.
As to which, then I'd probably favour the cherry.
Parana pine (sustainability issues apart) is a nice well-behaved pine to
use.
On 14 Jul 2006 06:07:44 -0700, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
>some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
>I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
>grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
>sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
I've used both extensively. Both are relatively easy to work in my
opinion. Not as hard as Oak or Ash. I give a slight preference to
cherry because the grain is a little tighter on the surface and I
prefer the smell over walnut which is a little strong when it is being
worked.
In the last year I've done a walnut cradle, booster seat, hall table,
and end table.
I'm currently working on a cherry china cabinet and side board. In
the past I did a cherry bedroom set complete.
Frank
"ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> I think this is wrong. If you go in with the attitude that this is
> just pine, you will not strive hard enough to do a good job. If you
> do what it takes and it comes out well, you will chide yourself for
> not using the material that you wanted in the first place.
What is wrong is your attitude. If you go into the project to learn how to
make certain joint, to make the perfect fit, the prototype will have served
its purpose. Great artists have often made sketches and prototypes before
creating the final masterpiece. I have a design in my head of a clock I
want to make. So far, I've made two partial prototypes from pine scraps to
get a real, hands on, 3D model of the finished product. I'll probably make
one more before I get what I want Check the design studios of auto makers.
They use clay before going to a metal model.
Perhaps you have all the woodworking skills you will ever need so you have
no reason to do a test setup. Good for you, but some of us still like to
try things out. Cheaply
Any prototype I've made that came out well was given as a gift and
appreciated by the recipient as much as the person that got the final
design. Last year I made a series of boxes as gifts. Yes I made two
prototypes from pine. One was junk from making adjustments in setups. The
other was as good as the cherry and elm boxes that I made. The pine was
given to a neighbor and she was just as happy as if it was made of solid
gold and filled with cash. I don't see any loss there.
On 14 Jul 2006 06:07:44 -0700, "stryped" <[email protected]> wrote:
>x-no-archive:yes
>
>Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
>some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
>I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
>grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
>sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
I prefer walnut over cherry. I made a cabinet out of cherry and spent
a lot of time sanding out the burn marks. Where I live, walnut is
less expensive than cherry due to the demand. Don't pass up maple or
oak.
"Charlie Self" wrote in message
> Let's propitiate JOAT's gods with the idea, too, that walnut lightens
> (relatively speaking) over time, while cherry darkens (but you can be
> talking lots of years before two similar pieces, one of walnut and one
> of cherry, pass each other on the way up or down. For what's it's
> worth, I've NEVER seen real cherry, without stain, the color of the
> furniture sold as cherry "stained" these days. It just never really
> turns black (well, yeah: in a fire).
I have a walnut hall table with a cherry "inlay" I did a few years ago,
finished a la Sam Maloof, rubbed oil/poly/wax .. no stain whatsoever.
I planned on watching it to see how long it took for them to swap spectrums.
Thus far the cherry has darkened, almost to the color of the walnut sapwood,
and the walnut hasn't budged as far as I can tell. From the looks of it I
might have to leave the piece in my will to someone who can finish the test.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 6/21/06
On Fri, 14 Jul 2006 20:06:07 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"stryped" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> x-no-archive:yes
>>
>> Which is easier for a newbie to work with? I wont get around to it for
>> some time because my wife wants me to build her a bookshelf first, but
>> I have a plan for a mantle clock I would like to make for my
>> grandmother. It calls for cherry but I wondered abotu Walnut. Was not
>> sure if one was better than another to work with wwith my cheap tools.
>>
>
>Maybe neither. If you are unsure of your skills and your tools, make a
>prototype in pine first.
>
I think this is wrong. If you go in with the attitude that this is
just pine, you will not strive hard enough to do a good job. If you
do what it takes and it comes out well, you will chide yourself for
not using the material that you wanted in the first place. My
preference is cherry because I like the way it looks. As others have
mentioned it burns, so use sharp tools and a reasonably fast feed
rate. I have a Maple clock that included less than $5 worth of wood,
so shop around. A picture can be seen at the top of the page:
http://webpages.charter.net/ray93402/Woodwork/woodwork.html
On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 17:42:42 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"ray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> I think this is wrong. If you go in with the attitude that this is
>> just pine, you will not strive hard enough to do a good job. If you
>> do what it takes and it comes out well, you will chide yourself for
>> not using the material that you wanted in the first place.
>
>What is wrong is your attitude. If you go into the project to learn how to
>make certain joint, to make the perfect fit, the prototype will have served
>its purpose. Great artists have often made sketches and prototypes before
>creating the final masterpiece. I have a design in my head of a clock I
>want to make. So far, I've made two partial prototypes from pine scraps to
>get a real, hands on, 3D model of the finished product. I'll probably make
>one more before I get what I want Check the design studios of auto makers.
>They use clay before going to a metal model.
>
>Perhaps you have all the woodworking skills you will ever need so you have
>no reason to do a test setup. Good for you, but some of us still like to
>try things out. Cheaply
>
>Any prototype I've made that came out well was given as a gift and
>appreciated by the recipient as much as the person that got the final
>design. Last year I made a series of boxes as gifts. Yes I made two
>prototypes from pine. One was junk from making adjustments in setups. The
>other was as good as the cherry and elm boxes that I made. The pine was
>given to a neighbor and she was just as happy as if it was made of solid
>gold and filled with cash. I don't see any loss there.
>
I will still disagree with you. I do build prototypes, usually from
cardboard so that others can see what I have in mind. These are full
sized, fully functional pieces. It took me about an hour to build a
cardboard rubber stamp cabinet. Some of the prototypes are used until
the final product is done. I do test a new technique, but always in
the same wood as the finished project because it eliminates another
variable. Part of the reason why my workflow is different is that I
have the gift of being Autistic. My designs are always fully worked
in my brain without drawings, even things like the design and
placement of the gears in the acrylic clock and the workings of some
of the wooden locks. I can build better from a picture of the final
project than from drawings. You work the way that is best for you in
your neurotypical fashion and I will do what is best for me. But I
think it is self defeating attitude to build a project out of inferior
material.
why use maple and stain it cherry? It seems silly to me that if your
going to the trouble why not use cherry.
he also could have gotten the same effect with a good quality veneered
plywood at less cost. In that case he probably could have gotten maple
plywood and stained it cherry.
bf wrote:
> william kossack wrote:
>
>>what ever you do don't go the route a friend used recently
>>
>>He had a bookcase built from Maple stained to look like cherry. For a
>>book case I'd go with veneer plywood edged with strips of real wood.
>>The plywood will be far more stable, stonger, and cost a bunch less.
>>The friend used real maple and had it stained cherry to match the other
>>wood in the room. A consideration on furniture is how will it look with
>>the other pieces in the room. Imagine the cherry in a room with oak
>>furniture. My SWMBO would say no and want oak.
>>
>
>
> So are you saying it was a mistake to use Maple instead of plywood or a
> mistake
> to try to stain Maple to look like Cherry? I have a friend that worked
> in a furniture factory (until it was sent overseas). He said all their
> "cherry" was really just maple stained like cherry.
>