Hi all,
Today I was perusing some Japanese antiques at a the Marukai store in
Torrance(?) and happened to come across a book titled "Traditional
Japanese Furniture". The tansu photographs were very nice as well as
the other stuff, but when I got to the end I found a chapter on
Japanese furniture joinery too. They had the usual joints like
dovetail, lap, miter, etc., but then it showed more complex joints
like triple mitered joints, tenon/mortise miters, dovetailed miters,
etc. All I could think of was that these craftsmen did it all by hand!
In fact I don't think a machine could be designed to make these
complex joints. What made it even more interesting was how simple
these joints looked on the outside, yet very complex on the inside.
If the book weren't so expensive I'd buy it just for that chapter on
joints alone.
Layne
Yes, LVT is Lee Valley Tools, SWMBO is "She Who Must Be Obeyed" and BORG is
the "Big Orange Retail Giant". Don't feel too bad, I never have been able
to figure out (sic) or DAMHIT (actually, I don't think that's right, it's
just how I remember it.
Don
Jim K <jkajpust@###ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm going to assume it's Lee Valley Tools. Most of the people here who
> use abbreviations get really P.Oed when one of us newbies asks what
> the hell they're talking about. Since I'm as much in the dark as you,
> I figure I'll take a guess and save you some grief from the "wreck
> old-timers" who don't like people asking questions.
>
> SWMBO, BORG, and the like.
>
> On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:56:21 -0800, Layne <> wrote:
>
> >LVT? Larry, can you supply the nonabbreviated version? Always looking
> >for good if not cheap tansu hardware.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Layne
> >
> >On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:03:27 GMT, Larry Jaques
> ><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
> >
> >>On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:15:40 -0800, Layne <> brought forth from the
> >>murky depths:
> >>
> >>>Thanks for the info guys. Some books I already know of and some I
> >>>don't.
> >>
> >>Did you get the monthly LVT catalog recently? Inside the back
> >>cover are some lines of VERY inexpensive tansu hardware. $2 a
> >>pop vs. the hand-made $48 hardware from the usual suspects. I
> >>guess some of Robin's customers demanded the super-cheap import
> >>stuff and they're serving it up now. Perhaps you'll like it more
> >>than I do.
>
Commonly used Acronyms found on Rec.Woodworking
SWMBO - She Who Must Be Obeyed
IMO - In My Opinion
IMHO - In My Humble Opinion
IMNSHO - In My Not So Humble Opinion
TIA - Thanks In Advance
AFAIK - As Far As I Know
IIRC - If I Recall Correctly
BTW - By The Way
:-) - Smile
<G> - Grin
BG - Big Grin
VBG - Very Big Grin
LOL - Laughing Out Loud (and sometimes "lots of luck")
LMAO - Laughing My A** Off
ROTFLMAO - Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A** Off
OBWW - Obligatory WoodWorking (something about woodworking after
discussing something completely NOT related to woodworking)
HD - Home Depot
TS - Table Saw
BS - Band Saw
r.ww - rec.woodworking
Add Big Orange for BORG, LN for Lie Nielson, LV for Lee Valley.
See, that wasn't so bad. I doubt if the old timers were really mad, just
acting up . . . :-)
"Jim K" <jkajpust@###ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm going to assume it's Lee Valley Tools. Most of the people here who
> use abbreviations get really P.Oed when one of us newbies asks what
> the hell they're talking about. Since I'm as much in the dark as you,
> I figure I'll take a guess and save you some grief from the "wreck
> old-timers" who don't like people asking questions.
>
> SWMBO, BORG, and the like.
LVT? Larry, can you supply the nonabbreviated version? Always looking
for good if not cheap tansu hardware.
Thanks,
Layne
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:03:27 GMT, Larry Jaques
<novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:15:40 -0800, Layne <> brought forth from the
>murky depths:
>
>>Thanks for the info guys. Some books I already know of and some I
>>don't.
>
>Did you get the monthly LVT catalog recently? Inside the back
>cover are some lines of VERY inexpensive tansu hardware. $2 a
>pop vs. the hand-made $48 hardware from the usual suspects. I
>guess some of Robin's customers demanded the super-cheap import
>stuff and they're serving it up now. Perhaps you'll like it more
>than I do.
I'm going to assume it's Lee Valley Tools. Most of the people here who
use abbreviations get really P.Oed when one of us newbies asks what
the hell they're talking about. Since I'm as much in the dark as you,
I figure I'll take a guess and save you some grief from the "wreck
old-timers" who don't like people asking questions.
SWMBO, BORG, and the like.
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:56:21 -0800, Layne <> wrote:
>LVT? Larry, can you supply the nonabbreviated version? Always looking
>for good if not cheap tansu hardware.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Layne
>
>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:03:27 GMT, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:15:40 -0800, Layne <> brought forth from the
>>murky depths:
>>
>>>Thanks for the info guys. Some books I already know of and some I
>>>don't.
>>
>>Did you get the monthly LVT catalog recently? Inside the back
>>cover are some lines of VERY inexpensive tansu hardware. $2 a
>>pop vs. the hand-made $48 hardware from the usual suspects. I
>>guess some of Robin's customers demanded the super-cheap import
>>stuff and they're serving it up now. Perhaps you'll like it more
>>than I do.
On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:56:21 -0800, Layne <> brought forth from the
murky depths:
>LVT? Larry, can you supply the nonabbreviated version? Always looking
>for good if not cheap tansu hardware.
>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:03:27 GMT, Larry Jaques
>>Did you get the monthly LVT catalog recently? Inside the back
http://www.leevalley.com Lee Valley Tools, silly.
Man, you should know THAT one by now. <tsk tsk tsk>
--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.
On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:15:40 -0800, Layne <> brought forth from the
murky depths:
>Thanks for the info guys. Some books I already know of and some I
>don't.
Did you get the monthly LVT catalog recently? Inside the back
cover are some lines of VERY inexpensive tansu hardware. $2 a
pop vs. the hand-made $48 hardware from the usual suspects. I
guess some of Robin's customers demanded the super-cheap import
stuff and they're serving it up now. Perhaps you'll like it more
than I do.
>Re: Japanese and Chinese furniture. Chinese furniture is very ornate
>and has lots of relief carvings on the furniture. Whereas Japanese
>furniture tends to be very simple in comparison.
Chinese furniture has always had a quaintly Victorian feel to me.
Overly ornate; far too much so for my tastes. I prefer the elegant
simplicity of Japanese and Mission styles, or the blending of the
two. YMMV.
--
Vidi, Vici, Veni
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
There are lots of books on Japanese joinery available. Just search on Yahoo
or go to Amazon.com. Many are in the range of $20.
<Layne> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Hi all,
>
> Today I was perusing some Japanese antiques at a the Marukai store in
> Torrance(?) and happened to come across a book titled "Traditional
> Japanese Furniture". The tansu photographs were very nice as well as
> the other stuff, but when I got to the end I found a chapter on
> Japanese furniture joinery too. They had the usual joints like
> dovetail, lap, miter, etc., but then it showed more complex joints
> like triple mitered joints, tenon/mortise miters, dovetailed miters,
> etc. All I could think of was that these craftsmen did it all by hand!
> In fact I don't think a machine could be designed to make these
> complex joints. What made it even more interesting was how simple
> these joints looked on the outside, yet very complex on the inside.
>
> If the book weren't so expensive I'd buy it just for that chapter on
> joints alone.
>
> Layne
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 01:16:16 -0800, Layne <> brought forth from the
murky depths:
>Hi all,
>
>Today I was perusing some Japanese antiques at a the Marukai store in
>Torrance(?) and happened to come across a book titled "Traditional
>Japanese Furniture". The tansu photographs were very nice as well as
>the other stuff, but when I got to the end I found a chapter on
>Japanese furniture joinery too. They had the usual joints like
>dovetail, lap, miter, etc., but then it showed more complex joints
>like triple mitered joints, tenon/mortise miters, dovetailed miters,
>etc. All I could think of was that these craftsmen did it all by hand!
>In fact I don't think a machine could be designed to make these
>complex joints. What made it even more interesting was how simple
>these joints looked on the outside, yet very complex on the inside.
>
>If the book weren't so expensive I'd buy it just for that chapter on
>joints alone.
Check places like Alibris.com, edwardrhamilton.com, Abebooks.com,
Half.com, and Amazon.com for used or remainder books at MUCH lower
prices. Renata and I were just lamenting those low prices yesterday.
We buy far too many books that way. ;)
Art of Japanese Joinery: $8.75+4 at Abe, $5 + $2.79 s/h at Half.
Japanese Joinery: $9.99 at Half, $25 at Abe.
--
Vidi, Vici, Veni
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
I thought it was Lee Valley, but wanted to comfirm.
Thanks Larry,
Layne
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 06:18:33 GMT, Jim K <jkajpust@###ameritech.net>
wrote:
>I'm going to assume it's Lee Valley Tools. Most of the people here who
>use abbreviations get really P.Oed when one of us newbies asks what
>the hell they're talking about. Since I'm as much in the dark as you,
>I figure I'll take a guess and save you some grief from the "wreck
>old-timers" who don't like people asking questions.
>
>SWMBO, BORG, and the like.
>
>On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:56:21 -0800, Layne <> wrote:
>
>>LVT? Larry, can you supply the nonabbreviated version? Always looking
>>for good if not cheap tansu hardware.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Layne
>>
>>On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 19:03:27 GMT, Larry Jaques
>><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:15:40 -0800, Layne <> brought forth from the
>>>murky depths:
>>>
>>>>Thanks for the info guys. Some books I already know of and some I
>>>>don't.
>>>
>>>Did you get the monthly LVT catalog recently? Inside the back
>>>cover are some lines of VERY inexpensive tansu hardware. $2 a
>>>pop vs. the hand-made $48 hardware from the usual suspects. I
>>>guess some of Robin's customers demanded the super-cheap import
>>>stuff and they're serving it up now. Perhaps you'll like it more
>>>than I do.
On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 01:16:16 -0800, Layne <> wrote:
>Today I was perusing some Japanese antiques at a the Marukai store in
>Torrance(?) and happened to come across a book titled "Traditional
>Japanese Furniture".
Grab a copy (and "Traditional Korean Furniture" too). They've just
gone out of print and they're already getting hard to find.
If you're interested in tansu specifically, then another good book is
Ty & Kiyoko Heineken's "Tansu"
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0834801620/codesmiths-20>
or for a coffee table book with better photographs but less
informative text, "Japanese Cabinetry"
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1586851136/codesmiths-20>
>The tansu photographs were very nice as well as
>the other stuff, but when I got to the end I found a chapter on
>Japanese furniture joinery too.
My impression is that Japanese furniture joinery is relatively simple,
compared to building joinery. The craft system is such that
apprentices are already heading for one narrow specialisition and
(until recently) there was little cross-over. The styles and joint
choices are thus quite distinctive between products. The typical
Japanese reverence for tradition encourages this too.
I find Japanese cabinetry very simple to build. For tansu certainly,
you're looking at far more work to do the ironwork than to make the
woodwork, although as many tansu are three layers of nested box, then
they can be quite lengthy too. I'm almost embarassed by the
simplicity of some Japanese joinery. I've made pieces in the past with
authentic pegged open tenon joints, then had them dismissed by Western
woodworkers because they weren't dovetailed.
The clamped mitre is also an excellent way to make stable doors and
light panels against moisture movement, but you _must_ use stable
timber that's exactly quarter sawn, or else the thing warps
completely. Japanese cabinetry assumes perfect timber and has few ways
of using up those boards that are less than perfect. The British
tradition OTOH, is all about using up the cast-offs that were too
small for Nelson's Navy to build ships with.
For a pretty, but lightweight, picture gallery of framing joints try
Seike's, "The Art of Japanese Joinery"
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0834815168/codesmiths-20>
A _much_ better guide to using and cutting such joints though is
Nakahara's "Complete Japanese Joinery"
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0881791210/codesmiths-20>
>What made it even more interesting was how simple
>these joints looked on the outside, yet very complex on the inside.
Take a look at Chinese cabinetry sometime. Far more complex than
Japanese, and much less visible.
Japanese cabinetry is realtively simple in scope. No chairs, no beds -
so there are few items with legs, or that must withstand the racking
forces of someone leaning back on them. Most Japanese styles have wide
slab faces and so the design problem to overcome is that of dealing
with moisture and timber movement in the seasonally varying Japanese
climate, rather than the Western or Chinese problem of withstanding a
high force through a narrow joint.
--
Do whales have krillfiles ?
Addendum:
HFT - Harbor Freight Tools
HF - Harbor Freight
LVT - Lee Valley Tools
DAMHIKT - Don't Ask Me How I Know This
ROTFLSHIAPMP - Rolling on the floor, laughing so hard I almost
peed my pants.
The Wreck - the rec.woodworking newsgroup
Wreckers - us'uns
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:16:07 -0600, "Lowell Holmes" <[email protected]>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Commonly used Acronyms found on Rec.Woodworking
>
>SWMBO - She Who Must Be Obeyed
>
>IMO - In My Opinion
>
>IMHO - In My Humble Opinion
>
>IMNSHO - In My Not So Humble Opinion
>
>TIA - Thanks In Advance
>
>AFAIK - As Far As I Know
>
>IIRC - If I Recall Correctly
>
>BTW - By The Way
>
>:-) - Smile
>
><G> - Grin
>
>BG - Big Grin
>
>VBG - Very Big Grin
>
>LOL - Laughing Out Loud (and sometimes "lots of luck")
>
>LMAO - Laughing My A** Off
>
>ROTFLMAO - Rolling On The Floor Laughing My A** Off
>
>OBWW - Obligatory WoodWorking (something about woodworking after
>
>discussing something completely NOT related to woodworking)
>
>HD - Home Depot
>
>TS - Table Saw
>
>BS - Band Saw
>
>r.ww - rec.woodworking
>
>Add Big Orange for BORG, LN for Lie Nielson, LV for Lee Valley.
>
>See, that wasn't so bad. I doubt if the old timers were really mad, just
>acting up . . . :-)
>
>"Jim K" <jkajpust@###ameritech.net> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> I'm going to assume it's Lee Valley Tools. Most of the people here who
>> use abbreviations get really P.Oed when one of us newbies asks what
>> the hell they're talking about. Since I'm as much in the dark as you,
>> I figure I'll take a guess and save you some grief from the "wreck
>> old-timers" who don't like people asking questions.
>>
>> SWMBO, BORG, and the like.
>
--== May The Angst Be With You! ==--
-Yoda, on a bad day
--
http://diversify.com Ending Your Web Page Angst.
On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 14:59:20 +0000, Andy Dingley
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 21:15:40 -0800, Layne <> wrote:
>
>>Chinese furniture is very ornate
>>and has lots of relief carvings on the furniture.
>
>Not always - there have been styles were simplicity was almost
>Japanese-like.
True, and there were ornate Mission pieces, but each
majority held true to their respective pattern.
--
Vidi, Vici, Veni
---
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Layne <> writes:
[...]
> like triple mitered joints, tenon/mortise miters, dovetailed miters,
> etc. All I could think of was that these craftsmen did it all by hand!
> In fact I don't think a machine could be designed to make these
> complex joints. What made it even more interesting was how simple
Of course such a machine could be built, but would be rather expensive.
> these joints looked on the outside, yet very complex on the inside.
>
> If the book weren't so expensive I'd buy it just for that chapter on
> joints alone.
There are several books on japanese joinery, and also some (limited)
web sites.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23