Nickle test and Jet 240v

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004 00:26:48 GMT, "Subw00er" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Haha Joe. I'll send you a nickel.
>
>I can stand the nickel while its running. Its actually super smooth while
>running and cutting. I wonder if a nylon link belt will reduce the jolt of
>startup? The jolt is pretty violent!

My General starts with an authoritative jolt, and it's pretty much
immediately up to 4000 rpm. That's with a heavy WWII, and the heavy
cast iron moving parts this saw is equipped with. Once it's running,
I could probably stand a dime on edge, so I don't worry about it.

AFAIK, electric motors develop max torque at 0 RPM, so I kind of
expect the jolt on large motors rated for continuous HP connected to
heavy moving parts. My smaller DC, contractor's saw, jointer, drill
press, etc... motors have less of a start-up jolt, so I always thought
of it as a horsepower and mechanism weight thing.

The jolt could also be related to the size and quality of the starting
cap.

FWIW, the General has a noticeably smaller jolt when starting with a
very light blade. I would also imagine small wiring, even if
technically correct, would lessen the jolt.

Barry

Hi Sub,
The nickel test refers to the smoothness of operation once the tool is running.
If you DAGS in this group I believe you will find a lot of discussion on this
start up bang and a few fixes. JG

Subw00er wrote:

> I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It gives me
> a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel to
> fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could see how
> a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an initial
> jolt. Just curious...

Subw00er wrote:
>
> I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It gives me
> a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel to
> fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could see how
> a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an initial
> jolt. Just curious...

Nickle test - bah! Now the dimes test, one near the front corner of
the
table, square to the blade, and one on the far corner paralleling the
blade.
Definitely helps to have the table top level to begin with and the
more
mass you've got the better. Robland's X31 weighs about 1100 pounds,
probably
100 lbs of that being the three, 3 hp TEFC motors. When one starts up
you
can hear the "kick" but can't feel it. Of course there's a lot more
set up
time on a combi but once they're tuned they stay that way.

charlie b

"Subw00er" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It gives
me
> a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel to
> fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could see
how
> a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an initial
> jolt. Just curious...
>

This is not due to running the saw at 240volts as opposed to 120volts. The
voltage that is applied to the coils of the motor is the same no matter
which way you wire it. The vibrations that cause the nickel to fall are due
to imbalances somewhere.

Try taping 5 pennies together. Most saws will pass this nickel test.

Frank

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:32:59 GMT, "Subw00er" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw.

Induction or universal (brushed) motor ? Most cheap saws use brushed
motors, because of their high start-up torque. They're stable when
running, but they make one hell of a bang when they start.

The "nickel test" means little when the saw is running idle. A really
stable saw is one that doesn't vibrate, even during a heavy rip.

--
Do whales have krillfiles ?

I can't try the nickel test. After shelling out the bucks for a table and
planer within 3 mos. of each other I don't have a nickel left to test with.
If you guys can all send me some I'll be sure to let you know how it all
turns out!

Joey in Chesapeake
"BIG JOE" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have a three year old Jet Cabinet Saw (Left Tilting - 3HP). The
> nickel rotates 5 degrees counterclockwise each time I start it, but
> remains standing.
>
> Try a different nickel, the first one I tried was so chewed up it
> wouldn't stay standing with the saw off.
>
> Joe
>
>
>
> "Subw00er" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It gives
me
> > a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel
to
> > fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could see
how
> > a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an initial
> > jolt. Just curious...

I have a three year old Jet Cabinet Saw (Left Tilting - 3HP). The
nickel rotates 5 degrees counterclockwise each time I start it, but
remains standing.

Try a different nickel, the first one I tried was so chewed up it
wouldn't stay standing with the saw off.

Joe



"Subw00er" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It gives me
> a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel to
> fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could see how
> a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an initial
> jolt. Just curious...

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:32:59 GMT, "Subw00er" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It gives me
>a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel to
>fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could see how
>a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an initial
>jolt. Just curious...
>


My PM66 passes the nickel test, now and ten years ago. A 240v motor
will have a smoother startup than a 120v. I tried the nickel test on
my Delta 16.5" drill press and the the nickel rolled off somewhere and
never did find it. Did not try the test on my DJ-20 (yet), but it's a
very smooth-running machine.

Haha Joe. I'll send you a nickel.

I can stand the nickel while its running. Its actually super smooth while
running and cutting. I wonder if a nylon link belt will reduce the jolt of
startup? The jolt is pretty violent! Actually a lot of the noise and
extravagance of it may be the blade guard rattling around on the table - its
connected pretty close to the motor mount.

Thanks for the replies.


"Joseph Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I can't try the nickel test. After shelling out the bucks for a table and
> planer within 3 mos. of each other I don't have a nickel left to test
with.
> If you guys can all send me some I'll be sure to let you know how it all
> turns out!
>
> Joey in Chesapeake
> "BIG JOE" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I have a three year old Jet Cabinet Saw (Left Tilting - 3HP). The
> > nickel rotates 5 degrees counterclockwise each time I start it, but
> > remains standing.
> >
> > Try a different nickel, the first one I tried was so chewed up it
> > wouldn't stay standing with the saw off.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> >
> >
> > "Subw00er" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It
gives
> me
> > > a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel
> to
> > > fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could
see
> how
> > > a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an
initial
> > > jolt. Just curious...
>
>

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 05:36:07 -0500, JGS <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Hi Sub,
> The nickel test refers to the smoothness of operation once the tool is running.
>If you DAGS in this group I believe you will find a lot of discussion on this
>start up bang and a few fixes. JG

no way man. the nickle has to remain standing through start up, while
cutting and during shut down to recieve wreck certification. havent
you read the nickle test spec sheet?
Bridger

On Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:32:59 GMT, "Subw00er" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It gives me
>a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel to
>fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could see how
>a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an initial
>jolt. Just curious...
>

my 1948 unisaw passes the test on startup and shutdown about 50% of
the time. if i set the nickel up while its running it will stay there
till i move it. i've even cut some 6/4 oak while the nickel was there.
it stayed there..... skeez

I have a new Jet 14 inch @120V with a 1HP motor. It would not pass the
nickle test until I changed the stock belt to a nylon link belt. BIG
difference, very smooth, and passes the nickle test at start up about 50% of
the time.

Kevin B



"Subw00er" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I failed the nickel test on startup of my Jet JWTS CS 240V saw. It gives
me
> a bit of a bang when it starts from the torque which causes the nickel to
> fall. Do most properly setup 240V saws pass the nickel test? I could see
how
> a 120V would take longer to spin up and perhaps have less of an initial
> jolt. Just curious...
>
>