OT: Generator Recommendation

On Aug 30, 10:18=A0pm, allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Aug 30, 11:01=A0am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> > Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> > look for or have any recommendations on brands. =A0I am looking for
> > something in the 5KW range.
>
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> > Ronnie
>
> What you will want to do is a watt-load calculation for all of the
> "vital" devices in the house. Freezer(s), refrigerator(s), furnace(or
> boiler, or heat pump), one lighting circuit, medical devices, sewage
> and/or water pumps, radio (not television), and anything else you need
> (one circuit also for phone chargers)
>
> When you get your final wattage, add 10% then you have what you need.
> When I was selling generators, people get surprised as to what they
> will need. 5KW might seem like a lot, but you might only be able to
> run a refrigerator and freezer depending on the age and condition of
> them. Switching is a short term solution but after 24 hours, it will
> not do any good.
>
> When you get your final wattage, add 10% then you have what you need.
> Find a dealer in generators and see what an LP version of what you
> need is going to cost you. I say LP as NG might not be operational. LP
> is in a tank on your property, so it is readily available. Diesel
> would be my second choice. The fuel stores longer than gasoline but is
> more expensive than LP to operate and can take longer to get delivered
> than LP in certain areas. LP dealers usually have an emergency phone
> number and deliver within hours of calling. Also LP tanks are
> available at Lowe's, HD, Wally World, or any convenient store. You
> would just need to make sure that you have the fittings on hand.
> Again, check all of your options.
>
> Now if you only have occasional power outages (less than 3 per year,
> each only less than 48 hours), then a decent generator really isn't
> worth the investment. Then pick up a small generator. But then they
> take the same effort to install (correctly) than a decent 10-12KW
> version and would require gasoline. So I would check to see if there
> are any gas stations that use a generator themselves or you might be
> up the creek. Many gas stations don't use generators unless they are
> in a power outage prone area. In this area, I know of only one gas
> station that uses a generator.
>
> Finally, check with your code enforcement/ building department. If you
> live in or near =A0a larger metropolitan area, some do not allow
> portable generators. Some areas require you to have a permit to
> operate it. There are some things that they could require you to have
> as well.
>
> Allen

Thank you for that. What you say makes nothing but good sense.

On Wed, 1 Sep 2010 22:26:04 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Morgans wrote:
>>
>> Pretty neat ideas out there. I guess the key is to get a large enough
>> generator to run the house air conditioning so the windows can stay
>> shut so you don't hear all of the neighbor's generators. If a person
>> had a super quiet setup, perhaps they could convince the neighbors to
>> make a quite box for their generators. (with a little help, perhaps
>> <g>)
>
>Or just tell the neighbors to take their generator inside.

ROTFLMAO! _That'll_ teach 'em!

--
Happiness comes of the capacity to feel deeply, to enjoy
simply, to think freely, to risk life, to be needed.
-- Storm Jameson

On Aug 30, 11:01=A0am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. =A0I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ronnie

My younger sister and her family lived in the NOLA area through
several hurricanes. What they learned is that generators are nice,
but if you need one for longer than a few days, there's one thing to
consider: where will you get the fuel to keep it running? If *I* were
doing this I would look at a natural gas generator, or conversion
kit. Even when electricity goes out for extended periods of time, the
gas is almost always on.

On Mon, 30 Aug 2010 10:14:52 -0700 (PDT), lektric dan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Aug 30, 11:01 am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
>> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
>> look for or have any recommendations on brands.  I am looking for
>> something in the 5KW range.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Ronnie
>
>My younger sister and her family lived in the NOLA area through
>several hurricanes. What they learned is that generators are nice,
>but if you need one for longer than a few days, there's one thing to
>consider: where will you get the fuel to keep it running? If *I* were
>doing this I would look at a natural gas generator, or conversion
>kit. Even when electricity goes out for extended periods of time, the
>gas is almost always on.

Unless you're certain of having a source of fuel, gasoline should be
your last fuel choice. A 5KW gas generator running at half load needs
about 15 gallons every 24 hours. If you do selective power
generation, you can easilly reduce the generator run time to less than
8 hours a day and even lower with some effort on your part. 30
gallons of gas could last 2 days or 6 days or 10 days - you need to
work out what you absolutely must power (medical equipment,
refrigeration for insulin, etc) and what isn't a necessity. An
alternative for low power devices (CPAP, small fridge, etc) could be
some big deep cycle batteries and an inverter. Charge the batteries
while the generator is running bigger loads; shut off the generator
when the big loads are no longer needed and run the essential items
from the inverter until the batteries reach the half-charge point;
restart the generator and recharge the batteries. (sounds almost lie
a solar setup ;-)

The next fuel choice is diesel, as the fuel keeps for extended periods
if properly sealed, and it's not nearly as dangerous to store as
gasoline. Yes, you will pay more for an 1800 rpm diesel generator
(you really don't want a 3600 rpm diesel) but it will probably last 20
years.

Better than diesel is LP or natural gas. You can store 500 or 1000
gallons of LP for years and it will still be "like new" when you need
to use it. The biggest difference between LP and natural gas is that
you KNOW the LP gas is available but you don't know if the natural gas
supplier is still functional.

John

On Thu, 02 Sep 2010 22:57:19 -0500, [email protected] wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:43:17 -0700 (PDT), allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Sep 2, 8:12 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>>wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:31:07 -0700 (PDT), allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >On Sep 2, 8:38 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>> >> > Unless you're certain of having a source of fuel, gasoline should be
>>> >> > your last fuel choice. A 5KW gas generator running at half load needs
>>> >> > about 15 gallons every 24 hours.  If you do selective power
>>> >> > generation, you can easilly reduce the generator run time to less than
>>> >> > 8 hours a day and even lower with some effort on your part.  30
>>> >> > gallons of gas could last 2 days or 6 days or 10 days - you need to
>>> >> > work out what you absolutely must power (medical equipment,
>>> >> > refrigeration for insulin, etc) and what isn't a necessity.
>>>
>>> >> I agree that gasoline should be the last fuel source considered for long
>>> >> term use, but for a vast majority of folks, the need for a generator is not
>>> >> that long term.  Gasoline works fine for that.  I disagree with your
>>> >> statements about the run time on a gallon of gas - based on my own
>>> >> experiences with my generator(s).  Around here, a long time without power
>>> >> might be 4 days or so.  Quite an unusual event, but one that you could
>>> >> expect to happen every few years.  I consistently get 12 hours of run time
>>> >> out of my generator on a full tank.  Hell - I'm not even sure what the size
>>> >> of the tank is but it's certainly not more than 5 gal.  I backfeed the whole
>>> >> house with my 5.6Kw and I really wouldn't be able to guess how much of a 24
>>> >> hour continuous run is at 1/2 load, full load, etc.
>>>
>>> >> --
>>>
>>> >> -Mike-
>>> >> [email protected]
>>>
>>> > It depends on how often that there is power outages in the OP's area.
>>> >If they are long term (more than 48 hours), LP is tops for efficiency
>>> >then diesel then gasoline when compared to run-time versus cost of
>>> >fuel. Diesel generators are hard to find for residential use. So that
>>> >leaves LP, NG, and gasoline.
>>>
>>> >http://www.generac.com/Brochures/0183180SBY.pdf
>>>
>>> >If you base on an 8KW model
>>>
>>> >LP uses 1.68 gal/hr (at full load). Price that I could find is around
>>> >$2.00/gal
>>>
>>> That certainly depends on where you live.  In most areas it's 50% higher than
>>> that ($3.00/gal) and some, 100% (e.g. NJ).
>>>
>>> http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_cpgal_w.htm
>>>
>>> >Gasoline uses 1.50 gal/hr (at 50% load). The current price for gas in
>>> >my area is $2.74/gal
>>>
>>> That likely includes road taxes.  Subtract perhaps $.75 from that.  I paid
>>> $2.37 today (was $2.34 Tuesday).
>>>
>>> >I used to have a sheet that showed the cost savings of all fuel types
>>> >but I can not locate it right off. But some simple looking found the
>>> >above info.
>>> >So roughly about $3.74/ an hour versus $4.11 an hour.
>>>
>>> LP has about 75% of the heat content as gasoline, by volume.  If LP is less
>>> than 75% of the cost of gasoline, it's cheaper (your numbers above are off -
>>> you show 90%).
>>>
>>> <...>
>>
>>Like I said, he has to check his area.
>
> $2 is unusually low. The numbers rarely work out for LP. LP has other
> advantages. Natural gas is, of course, the best solution where it's
> available.
>
>>Consumption is based on the spec's given by the manufacturer. Since
>>they break it down based on gal/hr, the heat content is moot as it
>>would be misleading otherwise.
>
> Wrong. Heat content is *exactly* the point of an internal combustion engine.
> The manufacturer's specs are suspect.

One reason for the different numbers- Introducing a gaseous fuel to
an engine designed to run on liquid fuel reduces the volumetric
effiecency of the engine and thereby the horsepower and fuel consumption
overall. I suspect the
gas engine and propane engine are identical in displacement.
>
>>Most states you are not exempt from any gas taxes unless you are a
>>farm or government. Doesn't matter if it is delivered.
>
> Wrong. You can get an exemption if your use is high enough and you can
> justify it.

Here in Al, fuel with no road tax is readily avavable but offroad fuel
is subject to sales tax so the difference in price isn't all that
important.
>
>>Pricing is based on my area. I called our local LP provider to check
>>what the price is. It is 1.99/gal here. I used 2.00 just for math
>>sake.
>
> That is *very* unusual. Like I said, most of the East and North it's $3.00 to
> $4.00. I didn't see the numbers for the South and West.

In the last 4 years I've paid from $2.00 to $3.75, I have my own tank and
can shop around somewhat.

basilisk

On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:31:07 -0700 (PDT), allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sep 2, 8:38 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> > Unless you're certain of having a source of fuel, gasoline should be
>> > your last fuel choice. A 5KW gas generator running at half load needs
>> > about 15 gallons every 24 hours.  If you do selective power
>> > generation, you can easilly reduce the generator run time to less than
>> > 8 hours a day and even lower with some effort on your part.  30
>> > gallons of gas could last 2 days or 6 days or 10 days - you need to
>> > work out what you absolutely must power (medical equipment,
>> > refrigeration for insulin, etc) and what isn't a necessity.
>>
>> I agree that gasoline should be the last fuel source considered for long
>> term use, but for a vast majority of folks, the need for a generator is not
>> that long term.  Gasoline works fine for that.  I disagree with your
>> statements about the run time on a gallon of gas - based on my own
>> experiences with my generator(s).  Around here, a long time without power
>> might be 4 days or so.  Quite an unusual event, but one that you could
>> expect to happen every few years.  I consistently get 12 hours of run time
>> out of my generator on a full tank.  Hell - I'm not even sure what the size
>> of the tank is but it's certainly not more than 5 gal.  I backfeed the whole
>> house with my 5.6Kw and I really wouldn't be able to guess how much of a 24
>> hour continuous run is at 1/2 load, full load, etc.
>>
>> --
>>
>> -Mike-
>> [email protected]
>
> It depends on how often that there is power outages in the OP's area.
>If they are long term (more than 48 hours), LP is tops for efficiency
>then diesel then gasoline when compared to run-time versus cost of
>fuel. Diesel generators are hard to find for residential use. So that
>leaves LP, NG, and gasoline.
>
>http://www.generac.com/Brochures/0183180SBY.pdf
>
>If you base on an 8KW model
>
>LP uses 1.68 gal/hr (at full load). Price that I could find is around
>$2.00/gal

That certainly depends on where you live. In most areas it's 50% higher than
that ($3.00/gal) and some, 100% (e.g. NJ).

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_cpgal_w.htm

>Gasoline uses 1.50 gal/hr (at 50% load). The current price for gas in
>my area is $2.74/gal

That likely includes road taxes. Subtract perhaps $.75 from that. I paid
$2.37 today (was $2.34 Tuesday).

>I used to have a sheet that showed the cost savings of all fuel types
>but I can not locate it right off. But some simple looking found the
>above info.

>So roughly about $3.74/ an hour versus $4.11 an hour.

LP has about 75% of the heat content as gasoline, by volume. If LP is less
than 75% of the cost of gasoline, it's cheaper (your numbers above are off -
you show 90%).

<...>

allen476 wrote:

>
> It depends on how often that there is power outages in the OP's area.
> If they are long term (more than 48 hours), LP is tops for efficiency
> then diesel then gasoline when compared to run-time versus cost of
> fuel. Diesel generators are hard to find for residential use. So that
> leaves LP, NG, and gasoline.
>

Indeed - real cost depends on what percentage of the time the generator is
running at full load. You won't typically find your generator running at
full load for long periods though. So, we agree that in relative terms,
gasoline is the more expensive, but it's also the more commonly available.
For portable units, you'll pay more for diesel or for LP, so that up front
cost becomes a factor.

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"shooter" wrote:

>I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should
> not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.
----------------------------------------
For emergency use, get a standard "Contractor's Generator".

10HP, 5 KW, skid mount.

5 gal of gasoline runs 8-10 nhours under full load.

Low cost, noisy, want to run it outside, and change the oil at least
once a week. (SAE 30 non detergent).

Buy whatever Sam's, Costco, etc, is sellimg this week.

It's a throw away device.

BTDT,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, keep the T-Shirt.

Lew

On 8/30/2010 11:35 AM, notbob wrote:
> On 2010-08-30, shooter<[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
>> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
>> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
>> something in the 5KW range.
>
> Honda
>
> http://www.envisupply.com/rentals/support/5KWGenerator.htm
>
> nb

I'll second the Honda. There was a thread on another newsgroup
recently. Someone bought a cheap generator. A small probably
inexpensive part broke on it. He cannot find a replacement part. The
generator is useless. Your chance of finding replacement parts for a
Honda are a lot better than the junk products.

Someone else suggested buying a cheap disposable generator. Fine, but
what if it disposes itself when you need it the most. Not a good idea
for a backup generator. Pay me now or pay me later. Later could hurt
big time.

I built my own generator over twenty five years ago. The engine has a
cast iron block and runs at about 2200 RPM, the generator runs at 1800
RPM. It's made to run for long periods of time and it has. I've run it
for over ten hours a day for weeks on end, just needs gas and oil. I
don't use it much anymore but it's still running, no doubt a 3600 RPM
unit would have died long ago. You can get 1800 RPM generators but the
are a lot pricier than the 3600 RPM versions. The disposable guy
would probably fill his pants if he saw the price of one.

I haven't paid much attention to generators for quite a few years so
I'm not sure about the quality of the power they generate these days.
They used to come in two varieties. A sine wave generator that
produced a clean sine wave that was safe to use on electronics and a
dirty sine wave that could only be used for lights and electric
motors. Mine is the second variety. It can't power electronics. It
will probably fry them.

LdB

On Aug 30, 11:01=A0am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. =A0I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ronnie

What you will want to do is a watt-load calculation for all of the
"vital" devices in the house. Freezer(s), refrigerator(s), furnace(or
boiler, or heat pump), one lighting circuit, medical devices, sewage
and/or water pumps, radio (not television), and anything else you need
(one circuit also for phone chargers)

When you get your final wattage, add 10% then you have what you need.
When I was selling generators, people get surprised as to what they
will need. 5KW might seem like a lot, but you might only be able to
run a refrigerator and freezer depending on the age and condition of
them. Switching is a short term solution but after 24 hours, it will
not do any good.

When you get your final wattage, add 10% then you have what you need.
Find a dealer in generators and see what an LP version of what you
need is going to cost you. I say LP as NG might not be operational. LP
is in a tank on your property, so it is readily available. Diesel
would be my second choice. The fuel stores longer than gasoline but is
more expensive than LP to operate and can take longer to get delivered
than LP in certain areas. LP dealers usually have an emergency phone
number and deliver within hours of calling. Also LP tanks are
available at Lowe's, HD, Wally World, or any convenient store. You
would just need to make sure that you have the fittings on hand.
Again, check all of your options.

Now if you only have occasional power outages (less than 3 per year,
each only less than 48 hours), then a decent generator really isn't
worth the investment. Then pick up a small generator. But then they
take the same effort to install (correctly) than a decent 10-12KW
version and would require gasoline. So I would check to see if there
are any gas stations that use a generator themselves or you might be
up the creek. Many gas stations don't use generators unless they are
in a power outage prone area. In this area, I know of only one gas
station that uses a generator.

Finally, check with your code enforcement/ building department. If you
live in or near a larger metropolitan area, some do not allow
portable generators. Some areas require you to have a permit to
operate it. There are some things that they could require you to have
as well.

Allen

"shooter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:249e0b12-05fb-4476-931d-cb9c833aec0f@i15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ronnie

Buy at least twice what you think you'll need. Do it once, do it right.

Steve

read about heart surgery and how to prepare for it at
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

If you don't already understand transfer switches and tranfer switching,
take some time and read up on it. You WILL need one for any extended
power outages OR you will be running extension cords all over the place.
Even with extension cords, you will still have issues with devices
that are "hard wired" into your electrical system.

Pete Stanaitis
----------------

shooter wrote:

> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ronnie

[email protected] wrote:

>
> Unless you're certain of having a source of fuel, gasoline should be
> your last fuel choice. A 5KW gas generator running at half load needs
> about 15 gallons every 24 hours. If you do selective power
> generation, you can easilly reduce the generator run time to less than
> 8 hours a day and even lower with some effort on your part. 30
> gallons of gas could last 2 days or 6 days or 10 days - you need to
> work out what you absolutely must power (medical equipment,
> refrigeration for insulin, etc) and what isn't a necessity.

I agree that gasoline should be the last fuel source considered for long
term use, but for a vast majority of folks, the need for a generator is not
that long term. Gasoline works fine for that. I disagree with your
statements about the run time on a gallon of gas - based on my own
experiences with my generator(s). Around here, a long time without power
might be 4 days or so. Quite an unusual event, but one that you could
expect to happen every few years. I consistently get 12 hours of run time
out of my generator on a full tank. Hell - I'm not even sure what the size
of the tank is but it's certainly not more than 5 gal. I backfeed the whole
house with my 5.6Kw and I really wouldn't be able to guess how much of a 24
hour continuous run is at 1/2 load, full load, etc.



--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Morgans wrote:
>
> Pretty neat ideas out there. I guess the key is to get a large enough
> generator to run the house air conditioning so the windows can stay
> shut so you don't hear all of the neighbor's generators. If a person
> had a super quiet setup, perhaps they could convince the neighbors to
> make a quite box for their generators. (with a little help, perhaps
> <g>)

Or just tell the neighbors to take their generator inside.

"shooter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:249e0b12-05fb-4476-931d-cb9c833aec0f@i15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.

Get any brand with the type of voltage outlets and setups you are looking
for that is powered by a genuine Honda engine.

It is the only engine that I feel confident in saying that it will start
immediately after long periods of time without attention.

They will also start after filling up the tank, while it is very hot from a
long, high power run.
--
Jim in NC

Living in a dangerous place as I did once - we were out 17 days one time
and then 11 the other - 11 for a massive earthquake. The 17 was a Pacific
Storm.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
"Our Republic and the Press will Rise or Fall Together": Joseph Pulitzer
TSRA: Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Originator & Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member. http://lufkinced.com/

On 8/30/2010 2:14 PM, Micajah wrote:
>
>
> "lektric dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:14da3a2a-b6c0-4627-a4f6-1a7ae08daa78@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 30, 11:01 am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
>>> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
>>> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
>>> something in the 5KW range.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> Ronnie
>>
>> My younger sister and her family lived in the NOLA area through
>> several hurricanes. What they learned is that generators are nice,
>> but if you need one for longer than a few days, there's one thing to
>> consider: where will you get the fuel to keep it running? If *I* were
>> doing this I would look at a natural gas generator, or conversion
>> kit. Even when electricity goes out for extended periods of time, the
>> gas is almost always on.
>
> In our case, I could borrow gasoline from my pickup, which had a 36 gallon tank,
> as I recall. The pickup's bed had been modified to make it a dump bed, so when
> the fuel filler was being modified, I just tossed away the barrier that
> prevented siphoning. It was also a very convenient way to "bring home" mower gas
> when I needed to refill a tank.
>
> Micahah

On 2010-08-30, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.

Honda

http://www.envisupply.com/rentals/support/5KWGenerator.htm

nb

Leon wrote:
>
>
> Having recently gone through Ike two years ago and being with out
> electricity for 11 days, finding gasoline was the least of my
> worries, it was every where. NOLA was a fluke and an ill prepared
> city.

When Hurricane Yikes hit Houston, FOUR MILLION people were without power for
over two weeks! That included most every gas stations for 60 miles.

We had a generator and five gallons of gas. BFD!

Now, when a hurricane hits the Gulf, I've got 60 gallons of empty gas cans
that are gonna get filled.

On Sep 2, 8:12=A0pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:31:07 -0700 (PDT), allen476 <[email protected]> wro=
te:
> >On Sep 2, 8:38=A0am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >> > Unless you're certain of having a source of fuel, gasoline should be
> >> > your last fuel choice. A 5KW gas generator running at half load need=
s
> >> > about 15 gallons every 24 hours. =A0If you do selective power
> >> > generation, you can easilly reduce the generator run time to less th=
an
> >> > 8 hours a day and even lower with some effort on your part. =A030
> >> > gallons of gas could last 2 days or 6 days or 10 days - you need to
> >> > work out what you absolutely must power (medical equipment,
> >> > refrigeration for insulin, etc) and what isn't a necessity.
>
> >> I agree that gasoline should be the last fuel source considered for lo=
ng
> >> term use, but for a vast majority of folks, the need for a generator i=
s not
> >> that long term. =A0Gasoline works fine for that. =A0I disagree with yo=
ur
> >> statements about the run time on a gallon of gas - based on my own
> >> experiences with my generator(s). =A0Around here, a long time without =
power
> >> might be 4 days or so. =A0Quite an unusual event, but one that you cou=
ld
> >> expect to happen every few years. =A0I consistently get 12 hours of ru=
n time
> >> out of my generator on a full tank. =A0Hell - I'm not even sure what t=
he size
> >> of the tank is but it's certainly not more than 5 gal. =A0I backfeed t=
he whole
> >> house with my 5.6Kw and I really wouldn't be able to guess how much of=
a 24
> >> hour continuous run is at 1/2 load, full load, etc.
>
> >> --
>
> >> -Mike-
> >> [email protected]
>
> > It depends on how often that there is power outages in the OP's area.
> >If they are long term (more than 48 hours), LP is tops for efficiency
> >then diesel then gasoline when compared to run-time versus cost of
> >fuel. Diesel generators are hard to find for residential use. So that
> >leaves LP, NG, and gasoline.
>
> >http://www.generac.com/Brochures/0183180SBY.pdf
>
> >If you base on an 8KW model
>
> >LP uses 1.68 gal/hr (at full load). Price that I could find is around
> >$2.00/gal
>
> That certainly depends on where you live. =A0In most areas it's 50% highe=
r than
> that ($3.00/gal) and some, 100% (e.g. NJ).
>
> http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_cpgal_w.htm
>
> >Gasoline uses 1.50 gal/hr (at 50% load). The current price for gas in
> >my area is $2.74/gal
>
> That likely includes road taxes. =A0Subtract perhaps $.75 from that. =A0I=
paid
> $2.37 today (was $2.34 Tuesday).
>
> >I used to have a sheet that showed the cost savings of all fuel types
> >but I can not locate it right off. But some simple looking found the
> >above info.
> >So roughly about $3.74/ an hour versus $4.11 an hour.
>
> LP has about 75% of the heat content as gasoline, by volume. =A0If LP is =
less
> than 75% of the cost of gasoline, it's cheaper (your numbers above are of=
f -
> you show 90%).
>
> <...>

Like I said, he has to check his area.

Consumption is based on the spec's given by the manufacturer. Since
they break it down based on gal/hr, the heat content is moot as it
would be misleading otherwise.

Most states you are not exempt from any gas taxes unless you are a
farm or government. Doesn't matter if it is delivered.

Pricing is based on my area. I called our local LP provider to check
what the price is. It is 1.99/gal here. I used 2.00 just for math
sake.

Allen

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> Most generators sound like the hinges on the gates of hell. They are LOUD!
>
> One nice thing about a Honda is that it is considerably less noisy than
> the rest. This enables you to more clearly hear all your neighbors'
> generators.

I would still not hesitate to buy a Honda, but I read a blog somewhere
about tricks to quiet noisy or quiet generators, even further.

This guy welded a short fitting for auto exhaust pipe over the outlet of the
generator's muffler. He used a piece of flex pipe to hook up a muffler
mounted on the side of the generator frame with rubber mounts; just a cheap
car muffler. He said the mechanical noise of the valves and camshaft and
pistons and rods going about their way could be heard more loudly than the
exhaust note.

He then made up a box from the fiberglass board used to make furnace trunk
lines, and arranged it so any noise escaping from the enclosure had to go
around a couple corners to get out. By the time it had bounced off a
couple pieces of fiberglass board, the sound was pretty much absorbed. He
had a good sized box fan mounted to blow cool fresh air across the
generator, so it didn't overheat. He said you could stand right next to it
running at full load and carry on a conversation at normal volume levels.

Pretty neat ideas out there. I guess the key is to get a large enough
generator to run the house air conditioning so the windows can stay shut so
you don't hear all of the neighbor's generators. If a person had a super
quiet setup, perhaps they could convince the neighbors to make a quite box
for their generators. (with a little help, perhaps <g>)
--
Jim in NC

On Aug 30, 3:26=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "lektric dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:14da3a2a-b6c0-4627-a4f6-1a7ae08daa78@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 30, 11:01 am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> > Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> > look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> > something in the 5KW range.
>
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> > Ronnie
>
> My younger sister and her family lived in the NOLA area through
> several hurricanes. =A0What they learned is that generators are nice,
> but if you need one for longer than a few days, there's one thing to
> consider: where will you get the fuel to keep it running? =A0If *I* were
> doing this I would look at a natural gas generator, or conversion
> kit. =A0Even when electricity goes out for extended periods of time, the
> gas is almost always on.
>
> Having recently gone through Ike =A0two years ago and being with out
> electricity for 11 days, finding gasoline was the least of my worries, it
> was every where. =A0NOLA was a fluke and an ill prepared city.

When there is a blanket power outage such as that, the service
stations are SOL as well.
I always keep my vehicles topped up unless I am on a long highway
burn, then I'll let them get down below 1/4. Seldom below 1/2 in the
city.

Google 1998 Quebec ice storm and see the kind of trouble you can get
into up here.
Sample:
http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/images/chap07_ice_storm_picture.jpg

Midwinter power outages can make a serious mess of your house if
you're not prepared. One would be a fool not to have back-up propane,
and generator power in these climes. No electricity, no furnace. No
furnace, busted water pipes. (Leaving them running can be a bad idea
when the drains freeze.)

Some more info:
http://canadaonline.about.com/cs/weather/p/icestorm.htm
THE most serious weather-related event in Canadian history.

On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 18:43:17 -0700 (PDT), allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sep 2, 8:12 pm, "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 16:31:07 -0700 (PDT), allen476 <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >On Sep 2, 8:38 am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>> >> > Unless you're certain of having a source of fuel, gasoline should be
>> >> > your last fuel choice. A 5KW gas generator running at half load needs
>> >> > about 15 gallons every 24 hours.  If you do selective power
>> >> > generation, you can easilly reduce the generator run time to less than
>> >> > 8 hours a day and even lower with some effort on your part.  30
>> >> > gallons of gas could last 2 days or 6 days or 10 days - you need to
>> >> > work out what you absolutely must power (medical equipment,
>> >> > refrigeration for insulin, etc) and what isn't a necessity.
>>
>> >> I agree that gasoline should be the last fuel source considered for long
>> >> term use, but for a vast majority of folks, the need for a generator is not
>> >> that long term.  Gasoline works fine for that.  I disagree with your
>> >> statements about the run time on a gallon of gas - based on my own
>> >> experiences with my generator(s).  Around here, a long time without power
>> >> might be 4 days or so.  Quite an unusual event, but one that you could
>> >> expect to happen every few years.  I consistently get 12 hours of run time
>> >> out of my generator on a full tank.  Hell - I'm not even sure what the size
>> >> of the tank is but it's certainly not more than 5 gal.  I backfeed the whole
>> >> house with my 5.6Kw and I really wouldn't be able to guess how much of a 24
>> >> hour continuous run is at 1/2 load, full load, etc.
>>
>> >> --
>>
>> >> -Mike-
>> >> [email protected]
>>
>> > It depends on how often that there is power outages in the OP's area.
>> >If they are long term (more than 48 hours), LP is tops for efficiency
>> >then diesel then gasoline when compared to run-time versus cost of
>> >fuel. Diesel generators are hard to find for residential use. So that
>> >leaves LP, NG, and gasoline.
>>
>> >http://www.generac.com/Brochures/0183180SBY.pdf
>>
>> >If you base on an 8KW model
>>
>> >LP uses 1.68 gal/hr (at full load). Price that I could find is around
>> >$2.00/gal
>>
>> That certainly depends on where you live.  In most areas it's 50% higher than
>> that ($3.00/gal) and some, 100% (e.g. NJ).
>>
>> http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pri_wfr_a_EPLLPA_PRS_cpgal_w.htm
>>
>> >Gasoline uses 1.50 gal/hr (at 50% load). The current price for gas in
>> >my area is $2.74/gal
>>
>> That likely includes road taxes.  Subtract perhaps $.75 from that.  I paid
>> $2.37 today (was $2.34 Tuesday).
>>
>> >I used to have a sheet that showed the cost savings of all fuel types
>> >but I can not locate it right off. But some simple looking found the
>> >above info.
>> >So roughly about $3.74/ an hour versus $4.11 an hour.
>>
>> LP has about 75% of the heat content as gasoline, by volume.  If LP is less
>> than 75% of the cost of gasoline, it's cheaper (your numbers above are off -
>> you show 90%).
>>
>> <...>
>
>Like I said, he has to check his area.

$2 is unusually low. The numbers rarely work out for LP. LP has other
advantages. Natural gas is, of course, the best solution where it's
available.

>Consumption is based on the spec's given by the manufacturer. Since
>they break it down based on gal/hr, the heat content is moot as it
>would be misleading otherwise.

Wrong. Heat content is *exactly* the point of an internal combustion engine.
The manufacturer's specs are suspect.

>Most states you are not exempt from any gas taxes unless you are a
>farm or government. Doesn't matter if it is delivered.

Wrong. You can get an exemption if your use is high enough and you can
justify it.

>Pricing is based on my area. I called our local LP provider to check
>what the price is. It is 1.99/gal here. I used 2.00 just for math
>sake.

That is *very* unusual. Like I said, most of the East and North it's $3.00 to
$4.00. I didn't see the numbers for the South and West.

On Aug 30, 5:02=A0pm, "Artemus" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "shooter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:249e0b12-05fb-4476-931d-cb9c833aec0f@i15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com..=
.
> > >I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> > > Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should no=
t
> > > look for or have any recommendations on brands. =A0I am looking for
> > > something in the 5KW range.
>
> > > Thanks in advance.
>
> > > Ronnie
>
> > Buy at least twice what you think you'll need. =A0Do it once, do it rig=
ht.
>
> > Steve
>
> That's not always good advice. =A0A large lightly loaded genset can consu=
me
> more fuel per hour than a properly sized one driving the same load.
> Art

But figure on 5 KW. Make sure you get 220 outlets. Not all of them do.
Honda is a good choice, me thinks.

On Sep 2, 8:38=A0am, "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> > Unless you're certain of having a source of fuel, gasoline should be
> > your last fuel choice. A 5KW gas generator running at half load needs
> > about 15 gallons every 24 hours. =A0If you do selective power
> > generation, you can easilly reduce the generator run time to less than
> > 8 hours a day and even lower with some effort on your part. =A030
> > gallons of gas could last 2 days or 6 days or 10 days - you need to
> > work out what you absolutely must power (medical equipment,
> > refrigeration for insulin, etc) and what isn't a necessity.
>
> I agree that gasoline should be the last fuel source considered for long
> term use, but for a vast majority of folks, the need for a generator is n=
ot
> that long term. =A0Gasoline works fine for that. =A0I disagree with your
> statements about the run time on a gallon of gas - based on my own
> experiences with my generator(s). =A0Around here, a long time without pow=
er
> might be 4 days or so. =A0Quite an unusual event, but one that you could
> expect to happen every few years. =A0I consistently get 12 hours of run t=
ime
> out of my generator on a full tank. =A0Hell - I'm not even sure what the =
size
> of the tank is but it's certainly not more than 5 gal. =A0I backfeed the =
whole
> house with my 5.6Kw and I really wouldn't be able to guess how much of a =
24
> hour continuous run is at 1/2 load, full load, etc.
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]

It depends on how often that there is power outages in the OP's area.
If they are long term (more than 48 hours), LP is tops for efficiency
then diesel then gasoline when compared to run-time versus cost of
fuel. Diesel generators are hard to find for residential use. So that
leaves LP, NG, and gasoline.

http://www.generac.com/Brochures/0183180SBY.pdf

If you base on an 8KW model

LP uses 1.68 gal/hr (at full load). Price that I could find is around
$2.00/gal

Gasoline uses 1.50 gal/hr (at 50% load). The current price for gas in
my area is $2.74/gal

I used to have a sheet that showed the cost savings of all fuel types
but I can not locate it right off. But some simple looking found the
above info.

So roughly about $3.74/ an hour versus $4.11 an hour.

And the above is based on spec of the units. Double the $4.11 if you
want full load on the gasoline.

But again he would have to check his area. This is what it would be in
my area.

And if anybody would like to find out for themselves what they might
need for a generator:

http://www.generac.com/Residential/Sizer/

Allen

"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Aug 30, 3:26 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "lektric dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:14da3a2a-b6c0-4627-a4f6-1a7ae08daa78@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 30, 11:01 am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> > Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> > look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> > something in the 5KW range.
>
> > Thanks in advance.
>
> > Ronnie
>
> My younger sister and her family lived in the NOLA area through
> several hurricanes. What they learned is that generators are nice,
> but if you need one for longer than a few days, there's one thing to
> consider: where will you get the fuel to keep it running? If *I* were
> doing this I would look at a natural gas generator, or conversion
> kit. Even when electricity goes out for extended periods of time, the
> gas is almost always on.
>
> Having recently gone through Ike two years ago and being with out
> electricity for 11 days, finding gasoline was the least of my worries, it
> was every where. NOLA was a fluke and an ill prepared city.

When there is a blanket power outage such as that, the service
stations are SOL as well.
I always keep my vehicles topped up unless I am on a long highway
burn, then I'll let them get down below 1/4. Seldom below 1/2 in the
city.

Google 1998 Quebec ice storm and see the kind of trouble you can get
into up here.
Sample:
http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/images/chap07_ice_storm_picture.jpg

Midwinter power outages can make a serious mess of your house if
you're not prepared. One would be a fool not to have back-up propane,
and generator power in these climes. No electricity, no furnace. No
furnace, busted water pipes. (Leaving them running can be a bad idea
when the drains freeze.)

Some more info:
http://canadaonline.about.com/cs/weather/p/icestorm.htm
THE most serious weather-related event in Canadian history.

But uh, how many hurricanes do you have up there. ;~) I see the need, for
winter up there, but gasoline in the south has been harder to get during the
70 and 80's gas shortages than in my previous 4 hurricanes... Gas stations
have generators too, they will be down longer waiting for the employees to
find they way back to work than they will be from power outages. These
places generally get preferential service since they are not normallly in a
secluded area. Oddly the middle of my neighborhood was more secluded than
across the street. Neighboras behind us and across the street from us had
electricity after 5 days. We listened to the friken generators for 6 days.

"shooter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:249e0b12-05fb-4476-931d-cb9c833aec0f@i15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

Something with a Honda engine is an excellent choice. Last year
my brother was in the market for a genset and asked the local repair
guys what they'd buy for their own use. Hands down - Honda. They
also said to avoid the Subaru Robin engine - it is a good engine but it's
impossible for them to get any repair parts. Likewise chinese generators.

If you are considering rolling your own take a look what these guys did.
http://utterpower.com/listeroi.htm
http://www.otherpower.com/fuking.html
Art

"Steve B" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "shooter" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:249e0b12-05fb-4476-931d-cb9c833aec0f@i15g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
> >I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> > Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> > look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> > something in the 5KW range.
> >
> > Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Ronnie
>
> Buy at least twice what you think you'll need. Do it once, do it right.
>
> Steve
>

That's not always good advice. A large lightly loaded genset can consume
more fuel per hour than a properly sized one driving the same load.
Art

On 8/30/2010 8:36 PM, HeyBub wrote:
> shooter wrote:
>> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
>> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
>> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
>> something in the 5KW range.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>
> Most generators sound like the hinges on the gates of hell. They are LOUD!
>
> One nice thing about a Honda is that it is considerably less noisy than the
> rest. This enables you to more clearly hear all your neighbors' generators.

Bub, I think you and I must have come off the same assembly line; some of our
mental wiring is nearly identical. :-)

--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/

"spaco" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

<snip>
> Even with extension cords, you will still have issues with devices
> that are "hard wired" into your electrical system.
>

For me the only critical hard wired device was the furnace so I
added an outlet box and plug right at the furnace in the garage.
Art

"lektric dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:14da3a2a-b6c0-4627-a4f6-1a7ae08daa78@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 30, 11:01 am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
>> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
>> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
>> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
>> something in the 5KW range.
>>
>> Thanks in advance.
>>
>> Ronnie
>
> My younger sister and her family lived in the NOLA area through
> several hurricanes. What they learned is that generators are nice,
> but if you need one for longer than a few days, there's one thing to
> consider: where will you get the fuel to keep it running? If *I* were
> doing this I would look at a natural gas generator, or conversion
> kit. Even when electricity goes out for extended periods of time, the
> gas is almost always on.

In our case, I could borrow gasoline from my pickup, which had a 36 gallon
tank, as I recall. The pickup's bed had been modified to make it a dump
bed, so when the fuel filler was being modified, I just tossed away the
barrier that prevented siphoning. It was also a very convenient way to
"bring home" mower gas when I needed to refill a tank.

Micahah

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Morgans wrote:
>>
>> Pretty neat ideas out there. I guess the key is to get a large enough
>> generator to run the house air conditioning so the windows can stay
>> shut so you don't hear all of the neighbor's generators. If a person
>> had a super quiet setup, perhaps they could convince the neighbors to
>> make a quite box for their generators. (with a little help, perhaps
>> <g>)
>
> Or just tell the neighbors to take their generator inside.

My BIL had four relatives die from CO poisoning from running a generator in
their garage. Their power had been turned off, but they had the money to
pay the bill. They never figured out WTF they were thinking. Either about
not paying the bill or running the generator inside the garage.

So, even regular people make mistakes sometimes, I guess. Too bad this one
was costly.

Steve

Heart surgery pending?
Read up and prepare.
Learn how to care for a friend.
http://cabgbypasssurgery.com

"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> writes:
>"shooter" wrote:
>
>>I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
>> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should
>> not
>> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
>> something in the 5KW range.
>----------------------------------------
>For emergency use, get a standard "Contractor's Generator".
>
>10HP, 5 KW, skid mount.

Frankly, I'd get something like this:

http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-Guardian-5882-Standby-Generator/p4792.html

scott

"lektric dan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:14da3a2a-b6c0-4627-a4f6-1a7ae08daa78@z28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 30, 11:01 am, shooter <[email protected]> wrote:
> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Ronnie

My younger sister and her family lived in the NOLA area through
several hurricanes. What they learned is that generators are nice,
but if you need one for longer than a few days, there's one thing to
consider: where will you get the fuel to keep it running? If *I* were
doing this I would look at a natural gas generator, or conversion
kit. Even when electricity goes out for extended periods of time, the
gas is almost always on.


Having recently gone through Ike two years ago and being with out
electricity for 11 days, finding gasoline was the least of my worries, it
was every where. NOLA was a fluke and an ill prepared city.

shooter wrote:
> I am considering a generator for my home in case of power outages.
> Does anyone have any words of wisdom as to what I should or should not
> look for or have any recommendations on brands. I am looking for
> something in the 5KW range.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>

Most generators sound like the hinges on the gates of hell. They are LOUD!

One nice thing about a Honda is that it is considerably less noisy than the
rest. This enables you to more clearly hear all your neighbors' generators.