Random thought about tool accumulators

It was somewhere outside Barstow when Tim Douglass
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I am a tool accumulator.

Me too. I meet many tools needing to be re-homed, and I just can't
say no to them. Today's was just a tiny pair of Moore & Wright
round-leg dividers - house clearance from a chap who'd worked at a
local aircraft factory.

But any exposure to the "new" tool shelves at a Borg fills me with
horror at their shoddiness. I can't remember when I last bought a tool
at a Borg - they've just got no attraction at all.

Tim clarified:
> I collect tools to have hope. . . Tools to me are latent potential. .
. .

> Michael opined:
> : Much more graceful and positive way of saying what I was thinking.
> : Hope is exactly what I'm buying. If I have the tool someday I'll do
> : the project.

> firstjois enjoined:
> Remember your mother buying clothing too large, giving you "grow
room". My
> older brother says he was 30 years old before he realized he didn't
have to
> buy shoe with "grow room" anymore. Some of my shop tools are things
I hope
> to grow into, I may not make maximum use of them right now but
someday . .
> .
>
> Josie

Now I know why I cruise the tool bins and asiles. . .I thought I was
just wasting time.<G>

Seriously, I think hope has a lot to do with it. Thanks for the
clarity and encouragement.

Dan

I'm in the same boat Tim. Never around to do the things I want to do
in the shop, but always feel the need to fill it with equipment and
cool bits of wood I find here and there. I used to do a lot of
woodworking with a good friend of mine who had a nice shop full of
tools and was also good at what he did. Now I'm 2500 miles away from
him with a shop starting to look like his, but I still have about 10%
of the talent at best. 'bummer'

Paul

Prometheus wrote:
> >I think that many of us (certainly me) don't have the amount of time
> >to work in our shops that we would like, so we see the adding of a
> >tool as doing something with our hobby. If we don't have time to
make
> >sawdust at least we can do *something* woodworking related. I am
> >finding that it is nice to have a project going that I can walk out
> >and spend just 5 minutes on - unfortunately there aren't many of
> >those, so for months at a time any shop time is devoted to urgent
> >household repairs. As a result I keep adding clamps, but never glue
up
> >panels. I have sandpaper in every grit known to man, but no wood to
> >use it on (and am planning the imminent addition of a scraper or two
-
> >plus appropriate burnisher, holder and whatever else related that I
> >can find). I have stationary power tools I can't use because I
can't
> >find the time to move the piles of insulation from the middle of the
> >floor to the walls so that I can move the tools from storage into
the
> >shop. Adding tools seems to be the only way I can really stay
> >connected to my love of wood.
>
> I've got a slightly different problem- I keep finding uses for my
wood
> that are different than what I intended them for. So, I'll go out
and
> get a nice pile of (for example) maple, with the idea that I'm going
> to make (for example) an entertainment center. As I get ready to
make
> said entertainment center, I realize that it would be a whole lot
> easier to make stuff if I had a nicer workbench (see where this is
> going?) and I end up using all of the earmarked maple to make a
> bench. And so it goes. I haven't bought too many tools in recent
> memory, but I keep building jigs, stands, and various mechanical
> devices to make the projects I never seem to get to easier. Right
> now, I'm designing a jig to cut spirals in turned stock with my
router
> table. I don't need it- I just think it'd be fun to have, and I
can't
> afford enough wood to make a big project right now. Even if I could
> afford enough wood, well, see above.
>
> Personally, I think it's got a lot to do with the advertising we're
> all exposed to. You see woodworker X making a morris chair that is
> quite a lot nicer than you might have the patience for- but then you
> think, "Hey, I could do stuff like that if I didn't have to waste all
> this time chopping out mortises!" and pretty soon you're (depending
on
> your media diet) making a router jig, buying a hollow-chisel
mortiser,
> buying new chisels, or practicing your sharpening skills on
automotive
> sandpaper (maybe all of the above). Of course, this sucks up the
> time you coulda spent just chopping out said mortises and making the
> chair plus interest- but that's why it's a hobby.
>
> There's really nothing wrong with any of it. Some people seem to
like
> making all their tools perform at the peak of thier condition, and
get
> off on maintainence and restoration. Some folks really enjoy
> sharpening things. Others will complete projects come hell or high
> water, whether they've got the tools or no. Some guys just buy tools
> and let 'em sit in the box for a year or better because they like to
> own them, or like getting a deal. It doesn't really matter, just so
> long as you enjoy what you're doing.
>
>
> Aut inveniam viam aut faciam


I have a related affliction. Buy the materials, but just to be sure,
I'll make a prototype. About the time I get the prototype the way I
like it, I loose all interest in the project. Seems I get more
satisfaction from figuring out how to do it and proving I can do it,
than from the finished article itself.

ray

On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 19:46:56 GMT, "toller" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>> shop. Adding tools seems to be the only way I can really stay
>> connected to my love of wood.
>>
>Maybe you are pulling our leg, but if you love wood, you must be able to
>find a half hour here and there to work it. Maybe the time you spend here
>or at Borg?

Partly leg pulling, but the basic issue is, I think, true. I'd get
more woodworking done if I wasn't in the Borg trying to get parts to
fix the house - which is where all my woodworking time and budget
seems to go. Adding a few clamps so that "now I have enough to glue up
that dresser carcase" is more enjoyable than just going home and
re-wiring the lights. (yesterday's project that took be to the Borg
and started this whole train of thought)

>I have a doweling jig I bought at a garage sale and a POS profile sander,
>but I use every other tool regularly. So no, I don't understand.

I have a ton of tools I use regularly, but seldom on "real
woodworking".

"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 00:12:33 GMT, Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Something about the vintage tools just seems to scream quality. I
>almost think I'd rather spend $1,700 on a 20-30 year old UniSaw that
>needed some TLC and refurbishing than the same amount on a brand new
>one. When you take a machine completely apart to clean and refurb it
>and then reassemble it, hopefully having it act and look as new you have
>a real pride of ownership and a tool that you now know so intimately
>that any problems that do crop up are "Oh, that just needs a twist here..."

Funny thing is that there have always been a lot of junky old tools.
I've used a lot of stuff that may be a hundred years old, but should
have been thrown out after one. Age does not mean quality, but the
quality tools are the ones most likely to have survived. The one area
where practically any older tool seems to be superior is in the amount
of metal used. The sheet metal is thicker (they didn't have the
technology to roll it thinner), the castings are heavier (they didn't
have computer modeling to figure out the maximum strength at the
minimum weight), and metal is used where now you find plastics (they
just didn't have any alternatives). Some vintage tools are great, but
there are a lot of very good modern tools that work reliably, cost
relatively little and last a long time, so I'm not going to start
worshiping at the altar of 1950's machinery yet.

"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 01:03:21 -0500, the inscrutable "firstjois"
> <[email protected]> spake:
>
>
>>Remember your mother buying clothing too large, giving you "grow room". My
>>older brother says he was 30 years old before he realized he didn't have to
>>buy shoe with "grow room" anymore. Some of my shop tools are things I hope
>>to grow into, I may not make maximum use of them right now but someday . .
>
>
> Then again, some of us buy cheap tools to see if we'll like the
> "style", then purchase a nice tool later, keeping the cheapie as
> a backup. Y'know, Rustlers instead of Guccis. I did this with the
> $40 HF bisquicker and an Ebay Chiwanese plunge router for $8 and
> found that I don't need upgrades for either...yet.
>
> --
> Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
> ----
> http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development
Yes, I bought the Grizzly 19" before the new years price increase, for
the 12" resaw, wishing I could justify the 20" one that weighed twice as
much. So the 2o" is on sale now, but I still haven't unpacked the 19.
And then I'll need to tune up the old Griz 14" for light work.
Joe

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "firstjois"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>>> Have you read Toshio Odate's book, and the tale of his first "good"
>>> plane as an apprentice ?
>
>Nope, should I put it on my recommended list?

Excellent book. Both well-written and readable as an autobiography of
Japanese apprentice life, and it's also a good guide to Japanese
tools.
<http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0941936465/codesmiths-20>

I think you're over-analyzing. Just send me all the tools you don't need
and I'll see that they get used. ;-)

Will

Andy Dingley wrote:
>
> But any exposure to the "new" tool shelves at a Borg fills me with
> horror at their shoddiness. I can't remember when I last bought a tool
> at a Borg - they've just got no attraction at all.
>
So true, just wish I'd had room for the 6 tool boxes that my sister in
law skipped when father in law died....I did get a couple of planes, but
that was only 'cause I knew where he hid them....

> shop. Adding tools seems to be the only way I can really stay
> connected to my love of wood.
>
Maybe you are pulling our leg, but if you love wood, you must be able to
find a half hour here and there to work it. Maybe the time you spend here
or at Borg?

I have a doweling jig I bought at a garage sale and a POS profile sander,
but I use every other tool regularly. So no, I don't understand.

on 3/1/2005 3:05 PM Andy Dingley said the following:
> It was somewhere outside Barstow when Tim Douglass
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> But any exposure to the "new" tool shelves at a Borg fills me with
> horror at their shoddiness. I can't remember when I last bought a tool
> at a Borg - they've just got no attraction at all.


Reading this post close on the heels of the one about the complete shop
full of mostly vintage tools sure strikes a note with me.

Those who haven't gone to the eBay site to take a look at what's offered
are missing a treat. Oh, to have the money (and, of course, the room)
to house that setup. Makes one's mouth water.

If you missed it, it REALLY is worth the look:

<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3876295933&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1>


Pay attention to the shots of the partially reassembled UniSaw. You just
don't see that craftsmanship and design anymore. That's why those tools
are still functioning today sixty years or so after they were
manufactured. I doubt many of today's tools will have that sort of life
expectancy.

Bet that no one who owns that lathe is asking how to keep it from
vibrating and walking around. "Self-ballasting" would be my guess.

Question the sixty years? That Delta Rockwell 14" bandsaw is the twin
of one I picked up at a house sale 19 years or so ago. Mine needed to
be cleaned and painted and that, together with new wheels and blade
guides, is all it took. I managed to run the pedigree on the machine
down. I'm now 59 now and that bandsaw was "born" a year a half before
me. It had seen some use and maybe even some rough use. Right now the
worst thing you could say about it is the black and red paint on the
medallion is somewhat faded. Pardon me all to hell, I have a couple
nice, big windows in my shop<g>

Something about the vintage tools just seems to scream quality. I
almost think I'd rather spend $1,700 on a 20-30 year old UniSaw that
needed some TLC and refurbishing than the same amount on a brand new
one. When you take a machine completely apart to clean and refurb it
and then reassemble it, hopefully having it act and look as new you have
a real pride of ownership and a tool that you now know so intimately
that any problems that do crop up are "Oh, that just needs a twist here..."

Thanks for sharing that eBay site.

Bob

Andy Dingley wrote:
>> It was somewhere outside Barstow when "firstjois"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Remember your mother buying clothing too large, giving you "grow
>>> room".
>>
>> Have you read Toshio Odate's book, and the tale of his first "good"
>> plane as an apprentice ?

Nope, should I put it on my recommended list?

Josie

Tim Douglass <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>> I think that many of us (certainly me) don't have the
amount of time
> to work in our shops that we would like, so we see the
adding of a
> tool as doing something with our hobby. If we don't have
time to make
> sawdust at least we can do *something* woodworking related.
I am
> finding that it is nice to have a project going that I can
walk out
> and spend just 5 minutes on - unfortunately there aren't
many of
> those, so for months at a time any shop time is devoted to
urgent
> household repairs.

I hear ya brother. I just bought a Delta jointer that I don't
really have room for, largely because I've been wanting one
for years and ended up with an unexpected windfall from some
writing. But I know that, realistically, I won't have much
chance to use it for months...any spare time I can wring from
work and family has to go into completing various projects
around the house. But knowing that jointer is sitting out in
the garage makes me feel good; the two 48" bar clamps I bought
last month are hanging out there too and give me the same
feeling. Now when I get a magazine with a plan I like, I can't
say "if only I had a jointer I'd make that." Now it's just
going to be time.

I do, however, have wood in the garage-- oak, maple, hickory,
mahogany, sycamore, cherry, and walnut. No more than 20 bf of
anything (much less of most) but someday soon I'm going to
take a day off work and machine all the parts for a sofa table
I've been planning for months. It probably won't be done for a
year (I'm still waiting for the BLO to dry on an end table I
started in September) and I know I'll be looking for more
tools in between.

-kiwanda

In article <[email protected]>,
Unquestionably Confused <[email protected]> wrote:

[seriously snipperized]
>
> Something about the vintage tools just seems to scream quality.

Find me something modern that idles like a Buick Straight-8 or cruises
like a 600 cc vintage BMW boxer, anything that sounds like the shutter
of a well-maintained Leica? What sounds like a 350-year-old Guarneri
cello?
All modern equivalents, even if proven scientifically superior, miss
something. I think it's a piece of the craftsman's/machinist's
heart/guts who made it. Is that what we call quality?

I was looking at a very old Carl Zeiss microscope one day with its
replacement, a brand new Wild Heerbrugg, sitting beside it. The proud
owner was extolling the virtues of the new Wild, the clarity of the
optics, but why didn't the focus mechanism feel the same?

It is mystical, I tell ya!

0¿0
˜

Rob--->who once was removed from under his hat by firing a 'light' load
from a 460 WeatherbyMk5

On 4 Mar 2005 05:57:58 -0800, "Paul in MN" <[email protected]> wrote:

>I'm in the same boat Tim. Never around to do the things I want to do
>in the shop, but always feel the need to fill it with equipment and
>cool bits of wood I find here and there. I used to do a lot of
>woodworking with a good friend of mine who had a nice shop full of
>tools and was also good at what he did. Now I'm 2500 miles away from
>him with a shop starting to look like his, but I still have about 10%
>of the talent at best. 'bummer'

Talent is the other great shortage around here. I've been doing
"woodworking" of one description or another since I was about 10 years
old. Most of it has been carpentry, but I've done a fair amount of
real stuff too. The problem seems to be that you have to do it
*regularly* in order to develop any real skill. So I learn something
then forget it because I don't do anything similar for 3-4 years. The
mess I've been having with shellac on my current project is a good
example - I was purging a bunch of old e-mail and found that I had
gone through exactly the same set of problems and learning the *last*
time I did a shellac project - just didn't remember any of it. Maybe
after appearing an idiot twice I might be able to remember something,
but I'm not going to bet on it since it will probably be another
couple of years before I do any more.

"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

Prometheus wrote:

> Some guys just buy tools
> and let 'em sit in the box for a year or better because they like to
> own them, or like getting a deal.

Ouch! Nailed me, partner. But the Dial-A-Dado and the two 48" Bessies were
50% off!

-- Mark

On Tue, 1 Mar 2005 12:36:47 -0800, "NorthIdahoWWer"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I think you're over-analyzing. Just send me all the tools you don't need
>and I'll see that they get used. ;-)

But then I'd have to start over!

"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

It was somewhere outside Barstow when Unquestionably Confused
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm now 59 now and that bandsaw was "born" a year a half before
>me.

I'm rather younger, but my Wadkin cabinet saw is of the same relative
age to me 8-)

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 04:05:40 GMT, "Michael Latcha"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I have my own theory, one that I've refined over the years of accumulating
>tools to do whatever, whenever. I collect tools to have hope. Hope to
>someday have the time to use them, to learn what they can do, to learn what
>I can do with them. Tools to me are latent potential, filled with projects
>and ideas waiting to burst out under the guidance of my hands and mind. So
>I buy tools, to do this or that. And they will, if I live long enough to
>find the time to learn how to guide them properly. Until then, I'll collect
>tools. And hope...

Much more graceful and positive way of saying what I was thinking.
Hope is exactly what I'm buying. If I have the tool someday I'll do
the project.

"We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh, and bring something to kill"

Tim Douglass

http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 01:03:21 -0500, the inscrutable "firstjois"
<[email protected]> spake:

>Remember your mother buying clothing too large, giving you "grow room". My
>older brother says he was 30 years old before he realized he didn't have to
>buy shoe with "grow room" anymore. Some of my shop tools are things I hope
>to grow into, I may not make maximum use of them right now but someday . .

Then again, some of us buy cheap tools to see if we'll like the
"style", then purchase a nice tool later, keeping the cheapie as
a backup. Y'know, Rustlers instead of Guccis. I did this with the
$40 HF bisquicker and an Ebay Chiwanese plunge router for $8 and
found that I don't need upgrades for either...yet.

--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

I have my own theory, one that I've refined over the years of accumulating
tools to do whatever, whenever. I collect tools to have hope. Hope to
someday have the time to use them, to learn what they can do, to learn what
I can do with them. Tools to me are latent potential, filled with projects
and ideas waiting to burst out under the guidance of my hands and mind. So
I buy tools, to do this or that. And they will, if I live long enough to
find the time to learn how to guide them properly. Until then, I'll collect
tools. And hope...

Michael Latcha - at home in Redford, MI





"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I am a tool accumulator. I don't really collect them, and I certainly
> can't justify the ones I have, but I continue to accumulate more. After a
> while I
> started thinking about this obsession that many of us have with tools
> and have formed a theory.
>
> I think that many of us (certainly me) don't have the amount of time
> to work in our shops that we would like, so we see the adding of a
> tool as doing something with our hobby.

> "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh,
> and bring something to kill"
>
> Tim Douglass
>
> http://www.DouglassClan.com

On Mon, 07 Mar 2005 21:59:48 -0800, Ray_Manor wrote:

> . Seems I get more
> satisfaction from figuring out how to do it and proving I can do it,
> than from the finished article itself.

I hear you. I think (I tell myself) it's ok; this is a hobby, and it ought
to be fun. If you do it for a living, you have to do it over and over.
That's why it's work.

--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad {dot} scientist {dot} com

"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
: On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 04:05:40 GMT, "Michael Latcha"
: <[email protected]> wrote:
:
: >I have my own theory, one that I've refined over the years of
accumulating
: >tools to do whatever, whenever. I collect tools to have hope. Hope to
: >someday have the time to use them, to learn what they can do, to learn
what
: >I can do with them. Tools to me are latent potential, filled with
projects
: >and ideas waiting to burst out under the guidance of my hands and mind.
So
: >I buy tools, to do this or that. And they will, if I live long enough
to
: >find the time to learn how to guide them properly. Until then, I'll
collect
: >tools. And hope...
:
: Much more graceful and positive way of saying what I was thinking.
: Hope is exactly what I'm buying. If I have the tool someday I'll do
: the project.
:
[snip]

Remember your mother buying clothing too large, giving you "grow room". My
older brother says he was 30 years old before he realized he didn't have to
buy shoe with "grow room" anymore. Some of my shop tools are things I hope
to grow into, I may not make maximum use of them right now but someday . .
.

Josie

It was somewhere outside Barstow when "firstjois"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Remember your mother buying clothing too large, giving you "grow room".

Have you read Toshio Odate's book, and the tale of his first "good"
plane as an apprentice ?

On Wed, 02 Mar 2005 04:05:40 GMT, the inscrutable "Michael Latcha"
<[email protected]> spake:

>I have my own theory, one that I've refined over the years of accumulating
>tools to do whatever, whenever. I collect tools to have hope. Hope to
>someday have the time to use them, to learn what they can do, to learn what
>I can do with them. Tools to me are latent potential, filled with projects
>and ideas waiting to burst out under the guidance of my hands and mind. So
>I buy tools, to do this or that. And they will, if I live long enough to
>find the time to learn how to guide them properly. Until then, I'll collect
>tools. And hope...

Amen, bruddah!


>"Tim Douglass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I am a tool accumulator. I don't really collect them, and I certainly
>> can't justify the ones I have, but I continue to accumulate more. After a
>> while I
>> started thinking about this obsession that many of us have with tools
>> and have formed a theory.
>>
>> I think that many of us (certainly me) don't have the amount of time
>> to work in our shops that we would like, so we see the adding of a
>> tool as doing something with our hobby.

Well stated.


>> "We need to make a sacrifice to the gods, find me a young virgin... oh,
>> and bring something to kill"

Great line, Tim.

--
Remember: Every silver lining has a cloud.
----
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website Development

>I think that many of us (certainly me) don't have the amount of time
>to work in our shops that we would like, so we see the adding of a
>tool as doing something with our hobby. If we don't have time to make
>sawdust at least we can do *something* woodworking related. I am
>finding that it is nice to have a project going that I can walk out
>and spend just 5 minutes on - unfortunately there aren't many of
>those, so for months at a time any shop time is devoted to urgent
>household repairs. As a result I keep adding clamps, but never glue up
>panels. I have sandpaper in every grit known to man, but no wood to
>use it on (and am planning the imminent addition of a scraper or two -
>plus appropriate burnisher, holder and whatever else related that I
>can find). I have stationary power tools I can't use because I can't
>find the time to move the piles of insulation from the middle of the
>floor to the walls so that I can move the tools from storage into the
>shop. Adding tools seems to be the only way I can really stay
>connected to my love of wood.

I've got a slightly different problem- I keep finding uses for my wood
that are different than what I intended them for. So, I'll go out and
get a nice pile of (for example) maple, with the idea that I'm going
to make (for example) an entertainment center. As I get ready to make
said entertainment center, I realize that it would be a whole lot
easier to make stuff if I had a nicer workbench (see where this is
going?) and I end up using all of the earmarked maple to make a
bench. And so it goes. I haven't bought too many tools in recent
memory, but I keep building jigs, stands, and various mechanical
devices to make the projects I never seem to get to easier. Right
now, I'm designing a jig to cut spirals in turned stock with my router
table. I don't need it- I just think it'd be fun to have, and I can't
afford enough wood to make a big project right now. Even if I could
afford enough wood, well, see above.

Personally, I think it's got a lot to do with the advertising we're
all exposed to. You see woodworker X making a morris chair that is
quite a lot nicer than you might have the patience for- but then you
think, "Hey, I could do stuff like that if I didn't have to waste all
this time chopping out mortises!" and pretty soon you're (depending on
your media diet) making a router jig, buying a hollow-chisel mortiser,
buying new chisels, or practicing your sharpening skills on automotive
sandpaper (maybe all of the above). Of course, this sucks up the
time you coulda spent just chopping out said mortises and making the
chair plus interest- but that's why it's a hobby.

There's really nothing wrong with any of it. Some people seem to like
making all their tools perform at the peak of thier condition, and get
off on maintainence and restoration. Some folks really enjoy
sharpening things. Others will complete projects come hell or high
water, whether they've got the tools or no. Some guys just buy tools
and let 'em sit in the box for a year or better because they like to
own them, or like getting a deal. It doesn't really matter, just so
long as you enjoy what you're doing.


Aut inveniam viam aut faciam