Not exactly woodworking, but ...
Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
We'll have to guide him.
After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:10:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> >You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.
> >
> >Robert
> And youn make it just a lirttle too simple. The wood expands and
> contracts and the paint cracks at the joint. Now the polyester filler
> is exposed to water at the joint. it soaks up water and expands,
> coming loose from the wood. It dries and shrinks, leavibg a gap. it
> gets wet again abd the wood gets wet - and soon you have the mess that
> was under that bondo - even if there was half decent prep done.
Sigh... Note that NOWHERE in any post that I have made in this thread did I advocate, advise, suggest, or imply that using resin to seal a crack in the joinery of a door was a viable solution. You are arguing with yourself at this point.
Robert
J. Clarke <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>>
>> On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
>>>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>>>>>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
>>>>> [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...
>>>>
>>>
>>> Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.
>>>
>>> His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
>> Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
>> to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
>> filler is not designed for use on wood.
>
> Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?
>
Perhaps for the same reason TB III claims to be water proof.
On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 5:19:44 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
> Got a citation?
>
> Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
> about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
> resin.
If you are asking me, you are asking the wrong guy. I was replying to this:
On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
> filler as well.
It was his information. I have read enough on the subject of polyester resins (not the topic at hand, BTW) to not speak without practical, hands on experience.
Robert
On 5/16/2016 4:09 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> But the OP just said the paint came off at the joint.
OP indicated there were "low spots" and asked about "filling" them ...
thus the very brief comment about what my paint contractors do in
similar situations.
IF that's all
> that happened there is not necessarily ant wood repair (and certainly
> no replacement) to do. When panels move in mullions, depending how the
> door was made and paintes the paint cracks from expansion withouit any
> further damage.
Did you miss the snide remarks and video I was more or less addressing
with that admittedly oblique reply, ignoring them, or did it just go
over your heard?
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Mon, 16 May 2016 15:31:22 -0500, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 5/16/2016 2:34 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>> Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.
>
>Yep, that's a good one, and there are quite a few other different
>products, but I use the various bondo products for a good reason:
>
>When you do it for a living like we do, instead of linking to videos on
>the internet like ol mr tuppence up there, I like the fact that it would
>be a rare day that you couldn't grab a can Bondo products at the closest
>Lowe's or Home Depot when you need it ...
>
> _right now_ ... not easy to do that with most other products.
>
>On that note, it ain't like I don't know how to fucking restore doors:
>
>Besides the new wood added, Bondo was used to fill all the old holes and
>dings:
>
>https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopGarageEntryDoorRestoration?noredirect=1#
>
>Now, mr tuppence, show us your's ...
But the OP just said the paint came off at the joint. IF that's all
that happened there is not necessarily ant wood repair (and certainly
no replacement) to do. When panels move in mullions, depending how the
door was made and paintes the paint cracks from expansion withouit any
further damage.
On Mon, 16 May 2016 14:34:25 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 5/16/2016 10:35 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>>>
>>> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
>>> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
>>> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
>>> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>>>
>>> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
>>> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
>>> We'll have to guide him.
>>>
>>> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
>>> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
>>> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
>>> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
>>
>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>>
>> Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.
>>
>> YMMV ...
>>
>
>Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.
Mixes with water no nasty fumes.
+2
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:sOKdnWjbFtieC6bKnZ2dnUU7-
[email protected]:
> On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> Snip\
>
>
>> You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
>> even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
>> the old Uniroyal Vibrin)
>>
> You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.
>
Unless you have a couple cans of Flex-Seal!
Puckdropper
Markem <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 18 May 2016 02:30:28 GMT, Puckdropper
> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>>Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:sOKdnWjbFtieC6bKnZ2dnUU7-
>>[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> Snip\
>>>
>>>
>>>> You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
>>>> even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
>>>> the old Uniroyal Vibrin)
>>>>
>>> You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.
>>>
>>
>>Unless you have a couple cans of Flex-Seal!
>>
>>Puckdropper
>
> They are selling it by the gallon now, stock up!
>
Right, because you never know when you'll want to seal up a screen door
on a submarine!
Puckdropper
On Wed, 18 May 2016 11:49:31 -0400, Greg Guarino <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On 5/16/2016 11:35 AM, Swingman wrote:
>> On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>>>
>>> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
>>> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
>>> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
>>> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>>>
>>> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
>>> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
>>> We'll have to guide him.
>>>
>>> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
>>> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
>>> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
>>> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
>>
>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>>
>> Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.
>>
>> YMMV ...
>>
>Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
>been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
>I think. He's using the Bondo.
>
>Thanks to all.
When I replaced the wooden front door of my house I replaced it with
a fiberglass door.. Cost a bit more, but I should never have to
replace it again in my lifetime.
I worked for 2 different window and door companies over the years and
saw enough trouble with exterior wood panel doors to convince me never
to buy anoyher one.
On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
> > Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
>
> >>
> >> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
> >> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
> >
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
> > [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
>
>
> Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...
>
Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.
His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 3:00:57 PM UTC-4, dadiOH wrote:
> Greg Guarino wrote:
> > Not exactly woodworking, but ...
> >
> > Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
> > paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
> > has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
> > but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
> >
> > We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
> > not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the
> > workman). We'll have to guide him.
> >
> > After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
> > edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
> > sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding?
> > Sander? Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
>
> 1. Hand sand the areas with a hard rubber sanding block. The goal is
> twofold: 1, accomplish some but not all feathering and 2, primarily, to
> renew the weathered surface of the exposed wood.
>
> 2. Get a tube of fairing/body purtty at Napa or other similar. You could
> use Bondo but the putty is easier to work with and MUCH easier to sand. It
> is basically talc and lacquer so if you have the ingredients you can make
> your own.
>
> 3. Apply the putty with one of those credit card size, flexible plastic
> spatulas used for bondo.
I save my hotel card keys for things like spreading bondo, mixing small
batches of epoxy (JB Weld, etc.), even shims in some cases.
...snip...
On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:37:37 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
> > And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
> > it's really a bad example of surface prep.
Absolutely true.
=20
> That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for=
=20
> smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It fails=20
> because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the Bondo. The=
=20
> epoxy material material they promote will do the same thing, just slower;=
it=20
> is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond than does the polyester resin=
=20
> used in Bondo.
Great post. All true; Bondo has its place, although not literally as a scu=
lpting material as seen in the video. I have seen it used extensively as a=
filler before painting where it worked well. But like any product, extens=
ive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum perfor=
mance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they =
peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covere=
d. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as =
well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the =
work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's =
repair.
Robert
On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
>> > Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
>> > news:[email protected]:
>> >
>>
>> >>
>> >> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>> >> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>> >
>> >
>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
>> > [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
>>
>>
>> Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...
>>
>
>Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.
>
>His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
filler is not designed for use on wood.
On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 12:43:17 PM UTC-5, Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
=20
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTM58R79VL98
> [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
Moron.
I wouldn't want to guess just how stupid you could be as that well probably=
has no bottom. But how you could compare filling a few cracks and low spo=
ts to someone that attempted to literally replace entire rotted areas and r=
ebuild rotted boards is beyond me.
So you found a video by some other nitwit (no doubt of your same intellectu=
al caliber) that had no idea what he was looking at and decided to compare =
it to a dissimilar situation. The Bondo was not only the wrong stuff, but =
it had no reinforcement nor was it anchored properly.
Idiot.
Anyway... Greg when I try to read the whole post and match the repair to th=
e capability of the repair guy. You have a some good thoughts, so this is =
only my personal way of handling the repairs you are talking about.
Sand the whole door to make sure there is no other loose paint, no scale, n=
o damage you didn't see (if it cracks where you are describing, there is mo=
vement in the joints so what you see won't be all of it until you have fini=
shed the prep)and determine if there needs to be actual repair work instead=
of just fill and paint.
The danger of putting new paint over old paint is that the paint holds well=
enough to hang onto the surface, but the new paint can loosen the previous=
coats, even if it is oil based.
That's why I power wash the exterior surfaces, then prep. If the paint is =
going to come off it will come off when sprayed. Then sand. Then examine =
the damage.
So for an exterior wood door (I am keeping in mind that you are talking abo=
ut an handyman doing these repairs) I wash and sand, and if there are repai=
rs needed I do them at that time. If the rails and stiles have separated, t=
hen I scrape out the rotten or soft wood on the joints, fill them with wood=
glue (I usually open them a bit more) and clamp. Then I use an 7" gutter =
screw (or something similar from Fastenal) driven at a 45 degree angle from=
the stile into the rail. Try to find a screw that is threaded the entire =
length if you can. These aren't, but work fine.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_122295-205-33047PK_0__?productId=3D3284360&Ntt=3D
If I find the screws with a head less than 1/2" diameter, I use a washer, t=
oo. Counter sink the head of the screw, and fill with acrylic caulk after =
the screw is in place. Do both sides and as well as the top and bottom of =
the door. I like gutter screws because they come with some kind of epoxy b=
ased powder coat on them so they won't rust over the long haul.
Now the door is more stabilized. BTW, most doors fail because of wood move=
ment, and that is usually caused by the painters not painting the door top =
and bottom. They wick water and start to fail immediately due to the absor=
ption of water causing swelling/movement.
Rock Hard is great for filling holes, some deep scratches, leveling out a s=
urface, etc. It is not good for small cracks as it needs to have more mass=
to hold together than you can get with a small crack. I usually do a two =
step process on a door that I am picturing as you described.
Fill all the holes and dents with Rock Hard. I use an 1/8" to 1/4" bit to =
drill into the center of the dents and holes to give the Rock Hard better b=
ite. With a bunch of holes in a damaged area, you can lay that stuff on pr=
etty thick and sand it smooth. Be aware that Rock Hard has almost not weat=
her resistance; if you start the job using that product plan on working it =
to finish. You can also get it pretty thin too, (think feathered edges) as=
long as you paint as soon as possible.=20
For cracks along the joints I use a good acrylic caulk. For cracks in face=
s, if they are fine cracks I use the same thing. I apply it as close as po=
ssible with a tool, then smooth it a bit with a wet paper towel.
I use caulk because it penetrates the rough surface of the joints and seals=
them against further deterioration. As noted above, most likely these cra=
cks will come back, but if the raw edges are sealed up with caulk it will s=
low down the process quite a bit. I use caulk on the joinery because doors=
always flex at the joints. Maybe not a lot, but always, and with all that=
I have repaired that is almost always "the scene of the crime". Rock Hard=
will break apart after a while due to this flexing and it offers no protec=
tion to the surface it is attached to. It isn't made to do that; it is a f=
iller.
Prime and paint!
Now... if the handyman of choice can't do that, skip the repairs, and apply=
Rock Hard and caulk, then paint.
Robert
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 2:26:38 PM UTC-4, Swingman wrote:
> On 5/18/2016 12:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> > Of course if Karl tells me he is now a member of The Flat Earth Society and he includes a video on making raspberry scones as his proof, I'll take it!
>
> What's a "scone"??
>
> Is there a Cajun word for that? Got a link?
>
Here you go...
Savoury (Tomato Cajun) Scone
https://mybakingcottage.wordpress.com/2015/07/10/savoury-tomato-cajun-scone/
On 5/16/2016 2:34 PM, Leon wrote:
> Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.
Yep, that's a good one, and there are quite a few other different
products, but I use the various bondo products for a good reason:
When you do it for a living like we do, instead of linking to videos on
the internet like ol mr tuppence up there, I like the fact that it would
be a rare day that you couldn't grab a can Bondo products at the closest
Lowe's or Home Depot when you need it ...
_right now_ ... not easy to do that with most other products.
On that note, it ain't like I don't know how to fucking restore doors:
Besides the new wood added, Bondo was used to fill all the old holes and
dings:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopGarageEntryDoorRestoration?noredirect=1#
Now, mr tuppence, show us your's ...
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
> >> Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
> >> > Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> > news:[email protected]:
> >> >
> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
> >> >> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
> >> > [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
> >>
> >>
> >> Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...
> >>
> >
> >Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.
> >
> >His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
> Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
> to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
> filler is not designed for use on wood.
Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On Mon, 16 May 2016 14:40:24 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
> >On 5/16/2016 12:43 PM, Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
> >> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
> >> news:[email protected]:
> >>
> >>> On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> >>>> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
> >>>>
> >>>> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
> >>>> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
> >>>> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
> >>>> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
> >>>>
> >>>> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
> >>>> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
> >>>> We'll have to guide him.
> >>>>
> >>>> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
> >>>> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
> >>>> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
> >>>> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
> >>>
> >>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
> >>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
> >>
> >>
> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
> >> [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
> >
> >Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer that
> >what you suggested.
>
> The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use Abatron."
And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
it's really a bad example of surface prep.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:19:36 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] wrote:
> >
> >>> Robert
> >
> >> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
> >> filler as well.
> >
> >Got a citation?
> >
> >Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
> >about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
> >resin.
> >
> 45 years + experiense with polyester body fillers.
So your experience is that water leaks through your body repairs? Glad
I don't get my car fixed at _your_ shop.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> [email protected] wrote in news:uisnjbt20m1tpbabc4k0h085j8u6v37bk0@
> 4ax.com:
>
> > On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:06:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> > wrote:
>
> >>You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.
>
> > Unless it;s inNew Orleans. (or Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, etc when
> > the Hurricanes hit - - -
>
> Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
> locations where the hurricane code applies).
Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
that glass windows aren't allowed.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
>
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > [email protected] says...
>
> >> Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
> >> locations where the hurricane code applies).
> >
> > Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
> > don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
> > that glass windows aren't allowed.
>
> LOL. Glass is allowed, as long as it's impact glass (which
> is a laminate, similar to automobile safety glass, about
> 3/8 inch thick).
Can you say "whoosh"?
On 5/18/2016 10:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
> been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
> I think. He's using the Bondo.
Gasp! OOOFUUUCCCKKINGGMMMMGGGG, we're done for.
NOT Bondo!!! ... puppies will die, and gigantic holes will be ripped in
the space-time continuum.
Say isn't so ...
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 5/18/2016 11:08 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 5/18/2016 10:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>
>>> Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
>>> been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
>>> I think. He's using the Bondo.
>>
>> Gasp! OOOFUUUCCCKKINGGMMMMGGGG, we're done for.
>>
>> NOT Bondo!!! ... puppies will die, and gigantic holes will be ripped in
>> the space-time continuum.
>>
>> Say isn't so ...
>>
>
> Hey - you can't comment Karl. Don't you remember - you were deemed to
> be a "clown". (by some clown on google groups - who must know what he's
> talking about 'cause he posted a link...)
>
What is "giggle groups"? ;~)
On 5/18/2016 10:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>
>> YMMV ...
>>
> Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
> been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
> I think. He's using the Bondo.
>
> Thanks to all.
LOL. The easy way out may be to build a whole new door and paint it. ;~)
[email protected] wrote in news:uisnjbt20m1tpbabc4k0h085j8u6v37bk0@
4ax.com:
> On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:06:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>>You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.
> Unless it;s inNew Orleans. (or Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, etc when
> the Hurricanes hit - - -
Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
locations where the hurricane code applies).
John
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:28 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built
>>> with plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of
>>> which were adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I
>>> built eleven years ago in that manner; it is still good as gold.
>>> Numerous commercial boats were built in the same manner; the Newport
>>> 40 ketch was one.
>
> Probably so but epoxy wasn't all that common back then.
Well, to be accurate epoxy wasn't all that common back in the
50's and 60's when polyester was widely used, before the problems
with blistering became widely recognized.
If you built a boat with polyester in this century you made a
mistake (albeit without bad consequences, apparently). Epoxy
has been the norm since the 80's; when I started boatbuilding
in the 90's it was accepted that epoxy was the only way to go.
(the arguement then became whether to use West System, System
Three, or Mas epoxy).
John
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] says...
>> Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
>> locations where the hurricane code applies).
>
> Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
> don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
> that glass windows aren't allowed.
LOL. Glass is allowed, as long as it's impact glass (which
is a laminate, similar to automobile safety glass, about
3/8 inch thick).
John
On 5/17/2016 11:41 AM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:10:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] says...
>>>
>>> On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>> Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
>>>>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>>>>>>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
>>>>>> [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.
>>>>
>>>> His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
>>> Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
>>> to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
>>> filler is not designed for use on wood.
>>
>> Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?
> Because he found he could sell it as such because people were using
> their auto-body filler on wood. Doesn;t change the fact it's not
> really designed for wood.
>
That is like saying that Honda's are not designed to keep the driver dry
in a rain storm since they originally built motorcycles.
On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:28 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>J. Clarke wrote:
>
>>>> Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer
>>>> that what you suggested.
>>>
>>> The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use Abatron."
>>
>> And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
>> it's really a bad example of surface prep.
>
>That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
>smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It fails
>because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the Bondo. The
>epoxy material material they promote will do the same thing, just slower; it
>is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond than does the polyester resin
>used in Bondo.
>
>The exception is plywood and it is an exception because ply doesn't respond
>to weather/humidity changes as much as solid wood.
>
>Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built with
>plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of which were
>adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I built eleven years
>ago in that manner; it is still good as gold. Numerous commercial boats
>were built in the same manner; the Newport 40 ketch was one.
>
>Other than just replacing the rotted wood in the video, the guy would have
>done better by cutting it out to good wood, then building it up with
>plywood.
>
>
>
>
You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
the old Uniroyal Vibrin)
On Mon, 16 May 2016 14:40:24 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 5/16/2016 12:43 PM, Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>>> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>>>>
>>>> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
>>>> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
>>>> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
>>>> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>>>>
>>>> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
>>>> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
>>>> We'll have to guide him.
>>>>
>>>> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
>>>> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
>>>> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
>>>> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
>>>
>>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
>> [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
>
>Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer that
>what you suggested.
The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use Abatron."
On Mon, 16 May 2016 16:11:37 -0400, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
>> to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
>> filler is not designed for use on wood.
>>
>
>Even better would be to sand the bad areas down to feather edges, then
>prime the bare wood to build up a primer layer, which may take a couple
>of coats of primer. Then sand this primer area down to flat with the
>existing paint, and finish paint. Just feathering out the damaged area
>will most likely result in the repair showing.
My experience is feathering paint to bare wood generally doesn.t work
too well. Prime the wood, - several coats if necessary, then feather
the repair - then paint.
This way you do not have a "raw" paint edge to work with - the paint
is always "sealead" to the wood when you are sanding and painting.so
the edges won't lift, cut, or curl.
On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:19:36 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>> Robert
>
>> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
>> filler as well.
>
>Got a citation?
>
>Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
>about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
>resin.
>
45 years + experiense with polyester body fillers.
On 18 May 2016 02:30:28 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:sOKdnWjbFtieC6bKnZ2dnUU7-
>[email protected]:
>
>> On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> Snip\
>>
>>
>>> You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
>>> even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
>>> the old Uniroyal Vibrin)
>>>
>> You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.
>>
>
>Unless you have a couple cans of Flex-Seal!
>
>Puckdropper
They are selling it by the gallon now, stock up!
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 11:08:38 AM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Hey - you can't comment Karl. Don't you remember - you were deemed to
> be a "clown". (by some clown on google groups - who must know what he's
> talking about 'cause he posted a link...)
>
> --
> -Mike-
I am not sure I would trust a post from Karl at this point either unless he attaches a link to an unrelated video uploaded by an idiot shill to further their own agenda. I just wouldn't make sense.
Of course if Karl tells me he is now a member of The Flat Earth Society and he includes a video on making raspberry scones as his proof, I'll take it!
;^)
Robert
On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
> > But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with =
the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was reall=
y obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you cou=
ld see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred ma=
intenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehou=
se to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, o=
r if it was just another idiot's repair.
> >
> >Robert
> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
> filler as well.
Note that as pointed out numerous times in this thread that lack of prepara=
tion is a great deal of the problem in the video.
What filler is completely waterproof? Solid epoxy finishes are for some ti=
me, but they break down eventually. =20
In context of this post, water proof fillers for wood(none of which I know =
actually are)the fillers are nearly irrelevant except for their ability to =
hold a sealer and retain elasticity.
In the specific case of this thread, it was stipulated that the door (and i=
ts fillers) would be painted, so whether or not the filler provides a super=
ior water proofing on its own as a stand alone product is irrelevant.
You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.
Robert
On 5/16/2016 10:35 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>>
>> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
>> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
>> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
>> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>>
>> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
>> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
>> We'll have to guide him.
>>
>> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
>> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
>> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
>> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
>
> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>
> Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.
>
> YMMV ...
>
Rock Hard makes a great wood filler that can be painted.
On 5/16/2016 12:43 PM, Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>>> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>>>
>>> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
>>> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
>>> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
>>> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>>>
>>> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
>>> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
>>> We'll have to guide him.
>>>
>>> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
>>> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
>>> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
>>> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
>>
>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
> [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer that
what you suggested.
On Sunday, May 22, 2016 at 9:47:27 AM UTC-4, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 22 May 2016 03:33:47 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
> >news:[email protected]:
> >
> >> In article <[email protected]>,
> >> [email protected] says...
> >
> >>> Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
> >>> locations where the hurricane code applies).
> >>
> >> Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
> >> don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
> >> that glass windows aren't allowed.
> >
> >LOL. Glass is allowed, as long as it's impact glass (which
> >is a laminate, similar to automobile safety glass, about
> >3/8 inch thick).
> >
> >John
> Or Jersey Glass
or Jersey Barriers
Hard to see through, but it sure would protect the occupants of the house. ;-)
On Sun, 22 May 2016 03:33:47 -0000 (UTC), John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> [email protected] says...
>
>>> Wood exterior doors are not code approved in Florida (in
>>> locations where the hurricane code applies).
>>
>> Yeah, I've heard that wood frame construction isn't approved either. I
>> don't know where you people get this stuff. Next you're going to say
>> that glass windows aren't allowed.
>
>LOL. Glass is allowed, as long as it's impact glass (which
>is a laminate, similar to automobile safety glass, about
>3/8 inch thick).
>
>John
Or Jersey Glass
On Tue, 17 May 2016 11:38:26 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> > But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's repair.
>> >
>> >Robert
>
>
>> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
>> filler as well.
>
>Note that as pointed out numerous times in this thread that lack of preparation is a great deal of the problem in the video.
>
>What filler is completely waterproof? Solid epoxy finishes are for some time, but they break down eventually.
>
>In context of this post, water proof fillers for wood(none of which I know actually are)the fillers are nearly irrelevant except for their ability to hold a sealer and retain elasticity.
>
>In the specific case of this thread, it was stipulated that the door (and its fillers) would be painted, so whether or not the filler provides a superior water proofing on its own as a stand alone product is irrelevant.
>
>You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.
Just tacking on
H2O is often referred to as the universal solvent.
Just about anything will dissolve into water with time, now the fact
is that it can take eons for some materials to dissolve at normal
temps. But on geological time frames it is.
On 5/17/2016 9:37 AM, dadiOH wrote:
> That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
> smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail.
Absolutely, as will most any product. If something requires a patch, it
has arguably started down that road. ;)
The ultimate, usually most desirable remedy is replacement with new.
The question: do you want to spend $X to patch something you can replace
for $X +/-; knowing that any "patch" will likely require some future
maintenance regardless of the product used to patch?
Recently finished an interior remodel. Previous inhabitant had been
confined to a wheel chair. There was not a door jamb in the house that
was not scarred, scraped, dinged and gouged by being rammed repeatedly
with a wheelchair.
Nothing structural, all cosmetic ... just like the OP's post in this
thread, before a trolling idiot introduced a rabbit trail, which we all
followed like sheeple. ;)
The client originally wanted to replace all door jambs, but given the
replacement cost (demo, cost of material, trim out labor, prime and
paint); versus patching options; the client decided to patch.
The painter, as I knew he would, wanted to use Bondo for the patching.
I was fine with that for this job, knowing from past experience that its
ubiquitous availability, price, and the time involved from application
to ready-to-paint, would give the client the bang for the buck he was
looking for in his particular situation.
And, also confident in knowing that this particular painter's success is
due in large part to his believe that preparation is the key to an
excellent patch/paint job, often in spite of the product being used.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:21:21 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:28 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last
>>>>>> longer that what you suggested.
>>>>>
>>>>> The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use
>>>>> Abatron."
>>>>
>>>> And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear
>>>> that it's really a bad example of surface prep.
>>>
>>> That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well
>>> for smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It
>>> fails because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the
>>> Bondo. The epoxy material material they promote will do the same
>>> thing, just slower; it is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond
>>> than does the polyester resin used in Bondo.
>>>
>>> The exception is plywood and it is an exception because ply doesn't
>>> respond to weather/humidity changes as much as solid wood.
>>>
>>> Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built
>>> with plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of
>>> which were adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I
>>> built eleven years ago in that manner; it is still good as gold.
>>> Numerous commercial boats were built in the same manner; the Newport
>>> 40 ketch was one.
>>>
>>> Other than just replacing the rotted wood in the video, the guy
>>> would have done better by cutting it out to good wood, then building
>>> it up with plywood.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
>> even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
>> the old Uniroyal Vibrin)
>
>Probably so but epoxy wasn't all that common back then.
>
But it is now.
Someone didn't clean the wood down to solid wood.
They covered over the weathered cracking window and
painted over. The hot sun simply steamed moisture
from behind and did the 2-step on the fix.
Epoxy resin is used as a wood preservative. But the
wood is cleaned up and bad taken off then it is poured on.
That was like putting on a bandage on a wet wound and the
glue doesn't stick.
Martin
On 5/17/2016 5:09 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 5/17/2016 11:41 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:10:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> [email protected] says...
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>>> Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
>>>>>>> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>>>>>>>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
>>>>>>> [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.
>>>>>
>>>>> His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
>>>> Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
>>>> to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
>>>> filler is not designed for use on wood.
>>>
>>> Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?
>> Because he found he could sell it as such because people were using
>> their auto-body filler on wood. Doesn;t change the fact it's not
>> really designed for wood.
>>
>
> That is like saying that Honda's are not designed to keep the driver dry
> in a rain storm since they originally built motorcycles.
>
>
On Tue, 17 May 2016 07:10:49 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> On Mon, 16 May 2016 11:33:25 -0700 (PDT), DerbyDad03
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 2:15:34 PM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> >> Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
>> >> > Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
>> >> > news:[email protected]:
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>> >> >> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
>> >> > [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...
>> >>
>> >
>> >Nah, it's Mr. Non-Cents that's the clown.
>> >
>> >His video response is an apples-to-crocodiles comparison.
>> Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
>> to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
>> filler is not designed for use on wood.
>
>Then why does the manufacturer call it "wood filler"?
Because he found he could sell it as such because people were using
their auto-body filler on wood. Doesn;t change the fact it's not
really designed for wood.
On Tue, 17 May 2016 11:38:26 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> > But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's repair.
>> >
>> >Robert
>
>
>> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
>> filler as well.
>
>Note that as pointed out numerous times in this thread that lack of preparation is a great deal of the problem in the video.
>
>What filler is completely waterproof? Solid epoxy finishes are for some time, but they break down eventually.
>
>In context of this post, water proof fillers for wood(none of which I know actually are)the fillers are nearly irrelevant except for their ability to hold a sealer and retain elasticity.
>
>In the specific case of this thread, it was stipulated that the door (and its fillers) would be painted, so whether or not the filler provides a superior water proofing on its own as a stand alone product is irrelevant.
>
>You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.
>
>Robert
And youn make it just a lirttle too simple. The wood expands and
contracts and the paint cracks at the joint. Now the polyester filler
is exposed to water at the joint. it soaks up water and expands,
coming loose from the wood. It dries and shrinks, leavibg a gap. it
gets wet again abd the wood gets wet - and soon you have the mess that
was under that bondo - even if there was half decent prep done.
Just like using polyester body filler on a car without sealing the
repair welds - or worse yet using it to fill rustouts. It won't last -
period. Seal it with an epoxy based fiberglass patch and it will last
almost forever. Polyester resin and fibergkass is a lot better than
that talc filled body-filler crap, but even that breaks down.(and
sometimes pretty quickly)
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
>On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>>
>> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
>> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
>> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
>> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>>
>> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
>> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
>> We'll have to guide him.
>>
>> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
>> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
>> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
>> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
>
>Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
[note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
On Sat, 21 May 2016 10:58:27 -0400, "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>>
>> On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:19:36 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] wrote:
>> >
>> >>> Robert
>> >
>> >> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
>> >> filler as well.
>> >
>> >Got a citation?
>> >
>> >Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
>> >about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
>> >resin.
>> >
>> 45 years + experiense with polyester body fillers.
>
>So your experience is that water leaks through your body repairs? Glad
>I don't get my car fixed at _your_ shop.
>
Never leaks though mine. I seal the repair before adding filler..
Generally use fiberglass re-enforced epoxy over any rust repair or
brazed patch and just enough filler to smooth it out because the
fiberglass is hard to fine-finish. Guys who punch holes in the rusty
metal and fill with Bondo WILL have the bondo pop., as will those who
"stitch" in a metal patch and cover with Bondo.
On Wednesday, May 18, 2016 at 12:10:12 AM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
=20
> No indication from the OP that there was any wood damage. A bit of
> high quality caulk in the seam would work much better than Bondo for
> his repair. It is flexible.
I am beginning to think you don't read any of the posts. It's OK, I partic=
ipate in another forum where most of the members read the first sentence, s=
ometimes two, and that's all they read.
I like your "new" thoughts, although... they sure sound familiar.
On Monday, May 16, 2016 at 11:41:58 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
=20
> For cracks along the joints I use a good acrylic caulk. For cracks in fa=
ces, if they are fine cracks I use the same thing. I apply it as close as =
possible with a tool, then smooth it a bit with a wet paper towel.
>=20
> I use caulk because it penetrates the rough surface of the joints and sea=
ls them against further deterioration. As noted above, most likely these c=
racks will come back, but if the raw edges are sealed up with caulk it will=
slow down the process quite a bit. I use caulk on the joinery because doo=
rs always flex at the joints. Maybe not a lot, but always, and with all th=
at I have repaired that is almost always "the scene of the crime". Rock Ha=
rd will break apart after a while due to this flexing and it offers no prot=
ection to the surface it is attached to. It isn't made to do that; it is a=
filler.
That was from two days ago.
Robert
On Tue, 17 May 2016 21:44:05 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:10:14 PM UTC-5, [email protected] wrote:
>> >You guys make this stuff waaaaay to hard.
>> >
>> >Robert
>
>> And youn make it just a lirttle too simple. The wood expands and
>> contracts and the paint cracks at the joint. Now the polyester filler
>> is exposed to water at the joint. it soaks up water and expands,
>> coming loose from the wood. It dries and shrinks, leavibg a gap. it
>> gets wet again abd the wood gets wet - and soon you have the mess that
>> was under that bondo - even if there was half decent prep done.
>
>Sigh... Note that NOWHERE in any post that I have made in this thread did I advocate, advise, suggest, or imply that using resin to seal a crack in the joinery of a door was a viable solution. You are arguing with yourself at this point.
>
>Robert
Yet that was where the OPs problem started. The paint cracked where 2
pieces of wood met, and the paint chipped off back from the crack.
No indication from the OP that there was any wood damage. A bit of
high quality caulk in the seam would work much better than Bondo for
his repair. It is flexible.
Mr. 2 Cents wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
>> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM58R79VL98
> [note to self; never ever trust any of this clowns repair advice]
Hear that Karl? Apparently you're a clown...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Greg Guarino wrote:
> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>
> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>
> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the
> workman). We'll have to guide him.
>
> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding?
> Sander? Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
1. Hand sand the areas with a hard rubber sanding block. The goal is
twofold: 1, accomplish some but not all feathering and 2, primarily, to
renew the weathered surface of the exposed wood.
2. Get a tube of fairing/body purtty at Napa or other similar. You could
use Bondo but the putty is easier to work with and MUCH easier to sand. It
is basically talc and lacquer so if you have the ingredients you can make
your own.
3. Apply the putty with one of those credit card size, flexible plastic
spatulas used for bondo. The goal is to fill low areas. When dry, hand sand
the areas with a hard rubber sanding block. Repeat if necessar.
4. Prime and paint.
BTW, the paint will probably eventually crack again at the joints
[email protected] wrote:
> Be MUCH better to prime the bare wood and sand the solid paint down
> to match the level of the primer, then repaint to match. Polyester
> filler is not designed for use on wood.
>
Even better would be to sand the bad areas down to feather edges, then
prime the bare wood to build up a primer layer, which may take a couple
of coats of primer. Then sand this primer area down to flat with the
existing paint, and finish paint. Just feathering out the damaged area
will most likely result in the repair showing.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote in news:[email protected]:
> Now... if the handyman of choice can't do that, skip the repairs, and apply Rock
> Hard and caulk, then paint.
Nice essay, Dink. Be sure and thank Karla for giving you the opportunity to flap
your tiny knowledge-penis in front of the class. Last I saw she was hiding under
Leon's skirt. (BSEG)
J. Clarke wrote:
>>> Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last longer
>>> that what you suggested.
>>
>> The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use Abatron."
>
> And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
> it's really a bad example of surface prep.
That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It fails
because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the Bondo. The
epoxy material material they promote will do the same thing, just slower; it
is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond than does the polyester resin
used in Bondo.
The exception is plywood and it is an exception because ply doesn't respond
to weather/humidity changes as much as solid wood.
Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built with
plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of which were
adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I built eleven years
ago in that manner; it is still good as gold. Numerous commercial boats
were built in the same manner; the Newport 40 ketch was one.
Other than just replacing the rotted wood in the video, the guy would have
done better by cutting it out to good wood, then building it up with
plywood.
[email protected] wrote:
>> Robert
> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
> filler as well.
Got a citation?
Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other - component is
about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated in the
resin.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2016 10:37:28 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>>>> Even though Bondo wood repair did not last long, it did last
>>>>> longer that what you suggested.
>>>>
>>>> The poster and video people were shills for "Better to use
>>>> Abatron."
>>>
>>> And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear
>>> that it's really a bad example of surface prep.
>>
>> That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well
>> for smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It
>> fails because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the
>> Bondo. The epoxy material material they promote will do the same
>> thing, just slower; it is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond
>> than does the polyester resin used in Bondo.
>>
>> The exception is plywood and it is an exception because ply doesn't
>> respond to weather/humidity changes as much as solid wood.
>>
>> Time was that many home built boats, usually trimarans, were built
>> with plywood which was then covered with layers of fiberglass all of
>> which were adhered with polyester resin. In fact, I have a pram I
>> built eleven years ago in that manner; it is still good as gold.
>> Numerous commercial boats were built in the same manner; the Newport
>> 40 ketch was one.
>>
>> Other than just replacing the rotted wood in the video, the guy
>> would have done better by cutting it out to good wood, then building
>> it up with plywood.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
> even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
> the old Uniroyal Vibrin)
Probably so but epoxy wasn't all that common back then.
[email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 5:19:44 PM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
>
>> Got a citation?
>>
>> Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other -
>> component is
>> about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is encapsulated
>> in the
>> resin.
>
> If you are asking me, you are asking the wrong guy. I was replying to
> this:
>
> On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 11:47:32 AM UTC-5, [email protected]
> wrote:
>> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
>> filler as well.
>
> It was his information. I have read enough on the subject of
> polyester resins (not the topic at hand, BTW) to not speak without
> practical, hands on experience.
>
> Robert
No, not you, sorry, it was meant for [email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2016 18:19:36 -0400, "dadiOH" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>>> Robert
>>
>>> Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
>>> filler as well.
>>
>> Got a citation?
>>
>> Polyester resin doesn't pass water. Talc - the primary other -
>> component is about the least permeable mineral around; plus, it is
>> encapsulated in the resin.
>>
> 45 years + experiense with polyester body fillers.
Your experience with polyester resin differs with mine. It also differs
with that of numerous companies that use it for commercial water proofing.
It also differs with that of the manufacturers who say it is water proof.
As to Bondo, it's water absorption is in the order of 0.3%. Water resistant
enough for me, especially after painting :)
On 5/16/2016 11:35 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>>
>> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
>> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
>> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
>> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>>
>> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
>> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
>> We'll have to guide him.
>>
>> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
>> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
>> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
>> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
>
> Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
> painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
>
> Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.
>
> YMMV ...
>
Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
I think. He's using the Bondo.
Thanks to all.
Swingman wrote:
> On 5/18/2016 10:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
>
>> Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
>> been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
>> I think. He's using the Bondo.
>
> Gasp! OOOFUUUCCCKKINGGMMMMGGGG, we're done for.
>
> NOT Bondo!!! ... puppies will die, and gigantic holes will be ripped in
> the space-time continuum.
>
> Say isn't so ...
>
Hey - you can't comment Karl. Don't you remember - you were deemed to
be a "clown". (by some clown on google groups - who must know what he's
talking about 'cause he posted a link...)
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 5/18/2016, Greg Guarino wrote:
>
>Wow. Really more answers than I could have hoped for. But the job has
>been in progress since yesterday and the results are looking acceptable,
>I think. He's using the Bondo.
>
>Thanks to all.
Mr Guarino, please post pictures of the completed job at your convenience.
We would like to add them to our growing 'bondo' collection.
Thank you in advance.
http://whitetrashrepairs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/3805.jpg
http://whitetrashrepairs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/6711.jpg
http://whitetrashrepairs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/3240.jpg
https://escoben.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/fail_3.jpg
Clem's bondo mixing skool: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opSHfwwMA9Q
http://thecraftsmanblog.com/bondo-is-never-the-answer/
http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015/08/the-bondo-cutaway-or-why-i-hate-bondo.html
On 5/18/2016 1:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> What's a "scone"??
>>
>> Is there a Cajun word for that? Got a link?
>>
>
> Here you go...
>
> Savoury (Tomato Cajun) Scone
>
> https://mybakingcottage.wordpress.com/2015/07/10/savoury-tomato-cajun-scone/
Merci, mon ami ...
Thought I was the only one who spread little coonies to England.
"Cajun powder"??
Don't think the "d", belongs, cher. lol
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 5/18/2016 12:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> Of course if Karl tells me he is now a member of The Flat Earth Society and he includes a video on making raspberry scones as his proof, I'll take it!
What's a "scone"??
Is there a Cajun word for that? Got a link?
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
https://www.facebook.com/eWoodShop-206166666122228
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Tue, 17 May 2016 09:02:15 -0700 (PDT), "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tuesday, May 17, 2016 at 9:37:37 AM UTC-5, dadiOH wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> > And if you look at their bad example of Bondo, it's pretty clear that
>> > it's really a bad example of surface prep.
>
>Absolutely true.
>
>> That and the fact that it was used so extensively. Bondo works well for
>> smallish areas but over large areas it will eventually fail. It fails
>> because the wood expands and contracts differentially to the Bondo. The
>> epoxy material material they promote will do the same thing, just slower; it
>> is slower because epoxy has a stronger bond than does the polyester resin
>> used in Bondo.
>
>Great post. All true; Bondo has its place, although not literally as a sculpting material as seen in the video. I have seen it used extensively as a filler before painting where it worked well. But like any product, extensive repairs require some familiarity with the product to get maximum performance. The lack of surface prep was really obvious in the video when they peeled back the hunks of Bondo and you could see the rotted wood the covered. You could also see further deferred maintenance on all the surfaces as well. It looked like an abandoned warehouse to me, so no telling when the work was actually done on those windows, or if it was just another idiot's repair.
>
>Robert
Since polyester filler is not waterproof the wood can rot under the
filler as well.
On 5/16/2016 9:29 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:
> Not exactly woodworking, but ...
>
> Two custom-built wooden exterior doors have developed cracks in the
> paint, mostly where the original pieces of wood were joined. The paint
> has flaked off to bare wood in those areas, leaving maybe 1" exposed,
> but the rest of the paint is in reasonable shape.
>
> We're having a guy come paint the door (this is a commercial building,
> not my house), but he's a handyman at best (I didn't pick the workman).
> We'll have to guide him.
>
> After scraping away the cracked paint, what can we do to smooth the
> edges that are left, and prep the door for (primer and) paint? Do we
> sand down the edges? Or "putty up" the low spots? Hand sanding? Sander?
> Grinder with flap disk? Something else?
Bondo wood filler, applied, sanded and painted, is usually what my
painters use to repair those type areas in doors.
Robert might have some other tricks up his sleeve, so hope he'll chime in.
YMMV ...
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, [email protected] wrote:
Snip\
>>
>>
>>
> You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
> even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
> the old Uniroyal Vibrin)
>
You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.
On Tue, 17 May 2016 17:06:54 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 5/17/2016 11:45 AM, [email protected] wrote:
>Snip\
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> You have to admit though that a boat built that way with epoxy, or
>> even vinyl-ester? resin stands up better than poyester resin ( Like
>> the old Uniroyal Vibrin)
>>
>You have to admit that an exterior door is not a boat.
Unless it;s inNew Orleans. (or Florida, Louisiana, Georgia, etc when
the Hurricanes hit - - -