Boxes a la Tom Watson

Mike G wrote:

> Changed the subject a bit to keep the threads straight.
>
> When ever I think about expanding my work thoughts of doing architectural
> millwork keep poking it's head up.
>
> When it does the same question always also crops up. William and Hussey or
> Woodmaster. Now, as I have already noted those who know about such things
> indicate the W & H is as good as it gets but on the other hand the
> Woodmaster also does millwork with the, to me, extra added attraction of
> being able to gang rip.
>
> Ah well, it isn't a decision I see having to be made anytime in the near
> future.
>
> Just an idle thought

Will the Woodmaster do curved molding?

--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)

Mike G wrote:
>
> Changed the subject a bit to keep the threads straight.
>
> When ever I think about expanding my work thoughts of doing architectural
> millwork keep poking it's head up.
>
> When it does the same question always also crops up. William and Hussey or
> Woodmaster. Now, as I have already noted those who know about such things
> indicate the W & H is as good as it gets but on the other hand the
> Woodmaster also does millwork with the, to me, extra added attraction of
> being able to gang rip.
>
> Ah well, it isn't a decision I see having to be made anytime in the near
> future.
>
> Just an idle thought
>
> --
> Mike G.

At a local estate sale I found an older 50's or so Woodmaste, I recall
a model number like "400" or "408". The friend of the heir who
was selling the stuff for her for $350 with one profile. There were
some other knives for another $100 but none looked like anything
I could use. The manual said there was also a drum sander and
jointer accessory but I already have both so that was not worth
anything to me.

If you're interested I could see if it's still available, get some
digital
shots of it and the knives and you can see if it's of use. If so, I
can
put you in touch with the seller. This was a few months ago so it
might not still be available but ....

charlie b

Which are made on shapers.

You'd be surprised how many types of moldings you can make with your tabled
router and multiple passes/bits.

Bit of scraping when complete, and you've got it.

"Scott McCray" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I believe Tom did those from crown molding...nice looking work, huh?
>

I store mine under the stand which holds my Rockwell planer. And it's a 7"
capacity, 14 if you reverse.

"Nate Perkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > From the pictures on his site he is apparently using a Williams and
Hussey
> > machine. A piece of equipment people who know about mill work like Tom's
is
> > THE machine to own.
>
> Ah, I was afraid of something like that. Well the third bay in my
> gar^H^H shop probably won't hold a Williams and Hussey, even if I
> could afford one (which I probably can't).
>
> Cheers,
> Nate

I believe Tom did those from crown molding...nice looking work, huh?

Scott



"Nate Perkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> Perhaps Tom Watson will be kind enough to answer this, but other help
> would be appreciated as well.
>
> I was admiring the boxes on Tom's web site
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/page30.htm
>
> I'm puzzling on how to work in the curves. How the heck would a
> person work those curves into the box top and the bottom of the sides?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nate

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:11:18 -0400, "Mike G"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I believe it will Jack.

It wasn't the ability to do curved moldings that sold me on the W+H,
although I did buy the elliptical jig and used it quite often (and
quite profitably - as the money that local millwork shops charge to do
curved and elliptical casing is abominable).

The main selling points of the W+H over the others were the reduced
setup time, owing to the design of the block that the knives mount on
- which made changing profiles and aligning the cutters much faster
and more accurate than on the competing machines, and the solidity of
the cast iron W+H v. the sheet metal of the others.

I'd had a friend buy one of the sheet metal housed versions and it
just didn't run as solid and smooth as the W+H. The chatter marks
were more pronounced. The W+H could turn out a profile that needed
very little tuning.

When you get interested in making the decision, ping me, and I'll send
you copies of the invoices on the machine.



Regards,
Tom.

Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

> I have done those type curves on feet for cabinets.
>
> You can do this also with a TS. You clamp 2 boards the width of the piece
> you are going to shape diagonally over the top of the blade slot. Raise the
> blade about 1/4" and feed you piece diagonally through the blade between the
> two clamped boards. Continue to raise the blade until the desire depth has
> been reached. The greater the diagonal, the wider the arc in the piece you
> are shaping.

Hi Leon,

Thanks, your post did get me thinking. I have done some coves on a
tablesaw and also the asymmetrical coves. So I can see how the
concave part of the sides might be done, it it isn't too shallow. I
might even be able to use a spokeshave to make a smooth convex side.
But the top of those boxes looks like the concave part varies in depth
along its length, and the bottom of the box looks like it has a base
with a 45 along it that was apparently cut from the same board.

I bet with your suggestion I can get 90% of the way there, though ...
probably just have to compromise on the base.

Cheers,
Nate

"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote:

> From the pictures on his site he is apparently using a Williams and Hussey
> machine. A piece of equipment people who know about mill work like Tom's is
> THE machine to own.

Ah, I was afraid of something like that. Well the third bay in my
gar^H^H shop probably won't hold a Williams and Hussey, even if I
could afford one (which I probably can't).

Cheers,
Nate

Tom Watson <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Those boxes were made out of crown molding that was simply ripped at
> the appropriate places to make the sides. The top was made by ripping
> crown molding and gluing it back together to form the re curved top.
... (remainder snipped)

Thanks, Tom! Kudos on the great boxes and on the terrific web site.

Larry Jaques <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
> You might want to DAGS for "table saw cove cutting" for a less
> pricy way to do those boxes.

Thanks, Larry. Will give it a try. I have cut some simpler edge
coves using the table saw method, but haven't yet done a fully buried
asymmetrical one. Guess it's time to learn. Tom's boxes are a great
inspiration.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:

> For those curves going in the opposite direction, I bevel ripped them on the
> TS also. Then use a Steve Knight smoother plane to take care of the final
> shaping of the convex curves. The concave curves were smoothed up with PSA
> sand paper wrapped around a round object close to the size of the cove.
> A hint here, try to do all you shaping and sanding before cutting the boards
> so that all the corners will be close in shape in case of irregular shaping
> on you part. DAMHIKT.

Excellent, thanks for the suggestion. I'll give it a try. Now I
guess I just need to get a Steve Knight smoother (heh, don't I wish).
I have a couple of other old planes that will probably get me by until
I can get a SK.

Cheers,
Nate

"Nate Perkins" wrote in message

> Perhaps Tom Watson will be kind enough to answer this, but other help
> would be appreciated as well.
>
> I was admiring the boxes on Tom's web site
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/page30.htm
>
> I'm puzzling on how to work in the curves. How the heck would a
> person work those curves into the box top and the bottom of the sides?

IIRC, TW has, or had, a "Shaper", a machine similar to router mounted in a
table, that is used to cut custom profiles in trim and molding. Multiple
passes with different bits can give you basically unlimited profiles.

My bet is that he used it for many of the profiles you see in the boxes.

http://www.mytoolstore.com/delta/43-355.html ... gives you an idea of one
style of the tool. With different bits, you can do much the same thing in a
router table.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 5/15/04

Changed the subject a bit to keep the threads straight.

When ever I think about expanding my work thoughts of doing architectural
millwork keep poking it's head up.

When it does the same question always also crops up. William and Hussey or
Woodmaster. Now, as I have already noted those who know about such things
indicate the W & H is as good as it gets but on the other hand the
Woodmaster also does millwork with the, to me, extra added attraction of
being able to gang rip.

Ah well, it isn't a decision I see having to be made anytime in the near
future.

Just an idle thought



--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
[email protected]
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Pat Barber" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:sc%[email protected]...
> Here you go:
>
> http://www.williamsnhussey.com/molder/specifications.html
>
>
>

I have done those type curves on feet for cabinets.

You can do this also with a TS. You clamp 2 boards the width of the piece
you are going to shape diagonally over the top of the blade slot. Raise the
blade about 1/4" and feed you piece diagonally through the blade between the
two clamped boards. Continue to raise the blade until the desire depth has
been reached. The greater the diagonal, the wider the arc in the piece you
are shaping.


"Nate Perkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> Perhaps Tom Watson will be kind enough to answer this, but other help
> would be appreciated as well.
>
> I was admiring the boxes on Tom's web site
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/page30.htm
>
> I'm puzzling on how to work in the curves. How the heck would a
> person work those curves into the box top and the bottom of the sides?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nate

Thank you Tom I'll keep that in mind.

Take care
Mike

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
[email protected]
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Tom Watson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 19:11:18 -0400, "Mike G"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >I believe it will Jack.
>
> It wasn't the ability to do curved moldings that sold me on the W+H,
> although I did buy the elliptical jig and used it quite often (and
> quite profitably - as the money that local millwork shops charge to do
> curved and elliptical casing is abominable).
>
> The main selling points of the W+H over the others were the reduced
> setup time, owing to the design of the block that the knives mount on
> - which made changing profiles and aligning the cutters much faster
> and more accurate than on the competing machines, and the solidity of
> the cast iron W+H v. the sheet metal of the others.
>
> I'd had a friend buy one of the sheet metal housed versions and it
> just didn't run as solid and smooth as the W+H. The chatter marks
> were more pronounced. The W+H could turn out a profile that needed
> very little tuning.
>
> When you get interested in making the decision, ping me, and I'll send
> you copies of the invoices on the machine.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Tom.
>
> Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.)
> tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email)
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1

Nate -

Doubt Tom uses this method - but I would cut the wavy sides and tops using

a bandsaw with lots of resaw capacity and a 1/4" blade. Followed with lots

of sanding.


Cheers!
ref


"Nate Perkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi,
>
> Perhaps Tom Watson will be kind enough to answer this, but other help
> would be appreciated as well.
>
> I was admiring the boxes on Tom's web site
> http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/page30.htm
>
> I'm puzzling on how to work in the curves. How the heck would a
> person work those curves into the box top and the bottom of the sides?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Nate

On 6 Jun 2004 18:01:51 -0700, [email protected] (Nate Perkins)
calmly ranted:

>"Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> From the pictures on his site he is apparently using a Williams and Hussey
>> machine. A piece of equipment people who know about mill work like Tom's is
>> THE machine to own.
>
>Ah, I was afraid of something like that. Well the third bay in my
>gar^H^H shop probably won't hold a Williams and Hussey, even if I
>could afford one (which I probably can't).

You might want to DAGS for "table saw cove cutting" for a less
pricy way to do those boxes.


------------------------------------------------------------------
Vote early, Vote often, Vote for Chad!
http://diversify.com Comprehensive Website & Database Development

From the pictures on his site he is apparently using a Williams and Hussey
machine. A piece of equipment people who know about mill work like Tom's is
THE machine to own.

--
Mike G.
[email protected]
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Nate Perkins" wrote in message
>
> > Perhaps Tom Watson will be kind enough to answer this, but other help
> > would be appreciated as well.
> >
> > I was admiring the boxes on Tom's web site
> > http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/page30.htm
> >
> > I'm puzzling on how to work in the curves. How the heck would a
> > person work those curves into the box top and the bottom of the sides?
>
> IIRC, TW has, or had, a "Shaper", a machine similar to router mounted in a
> table, that is used to cut custom profiles in trim and molding. Multiple
> passes with different bits can give you basically unlimited profiles.
>
> My bet is that he used it for many of the profiles you see in the boxes.
>
> http://www.mytoolstore.com/delta/43-355.html ... gives you an idea of one
> style of the tool. With different bits, you can do much the same thing in
a
> router table.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 5/15/04
>
>

On 6 Jun 2004 08:23:01 -0700, [email protected] (Nate Perkins)
wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Perhaps Tom Watson will be kind enough to answer this, but other help
>would be appreciated as well.
>
>I was admiring the boxes on Tom's web site
>http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/page30.htm
>
>I'm puzzling on how to work in the curves. How the heck would a
>person work those curves into the box top and the bottom of the sides?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Nate

Those boxes were made out of crown molding that was simply ripped at
the appropriate places to make the sides. The top was made by ripping
crown molding and gluing it back together to form the re curved top.

The cool thing about them is that they look far more complex than they
really are.

I happened to make that crown on a W+H Molder but you could certainly
do the same thing by starting with some stock molding.

It's interesting to look at a molding profile book, such as the one
from Old World Moldings, and imagine what sort of shapes you could saw
and re glue them into.

I gave a few away and someone saw one of them and ordered twenty of
them to be built as business Christmas gifts (at fifty bucks each -
about a thousand bucks for twenty hours work and some cherry that was
"too interesting" to go into my usual casegoods projects).

After the run of twenty I decided that was enough.

Thanks Charlie but I'd never squeeze on into the present shop. The W & H yes
but not one of the Woodmaster

The whole expansion things is one of those, somewhere down the road. Right
now I've got all the work the shop can handle but not enough to justify the
"down the road".

Now a couple of days ago the little news blurbs on the yahoo page I use as a
home page said something about some actress, Lopez I think, was going to
have twins so I'm patiently waiting for the order to come through.

;-)
Mike

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
[email protected]
www.heirloom-woods.net
"charlie b" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike G wrote:
> >
> > Changed the subject a bit to keep the threads straight.
> >
> > When ever I think about expanding my work thoughts of doing
architectural
> > millwork keep poking it's head up.
> >
> > When it does the same question always also crops up. William and Hussey
or
> > Woodmaster. Now, as I have already noted those who know about such
things
> > indicate the W & H is as good as it gets but on the other hand the
> > Woodmaster also does millwork with the, to me, extra added attraction of
> > being able to gang rip.
> >
> > Ah well, it isn't a decision I see having to be made anytime in the near
> > future.
> >
> > Just an idle thought
> >
> > --
> > Mike G.
>
> At a local estate sale I found an older 50's or so Woodmaste, I recall
> a model number like "400" or "408". The friend of the heir who
> was selling the stuff for her for $350 with one profile. There were
> some other knives for another $100 but none looked like anything
> I could use. The manual said there was also a drum sander and
> jointer accessory but I already have both so that was not worth
> anything to me.
>
> If you're interested I could see if it's still available, get some
> digital
> shots of it and the knives and you can see if it's of use. If so, I
> can
> put you in touch with the seller. This was a few months ago so it
> might not still be available but ....
>
> charlie b

I believe it will Jack.

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
[email protected]
www.heirloom-woods.net
"Nova" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike G wrote:
>
> > Changed the subject a bit to keep the threads straight.
> >
> > When ever I think about expanding my work thoughts of doing
architectural
> > millwork keep poking it's head up.
> >
> > When it does the same question always also crops up. William and Hussey
or
> > Woodmaster. Now, as I have already noted those who know about such
things
> > indicate the W & H is as good as it gets but on the other hand the
> > Woodmaster also does millwork with the, to me, extra added attraction of
> > being able to gang rip.
> >
> > Ah well, it isn't a decision I see having to be made anytime in the near
> > future.
> >
> > Just an idle thought
>
> Will the Woodmaster do curved molding?
>
> --
> Jack Novak
> Buffalo, NY - USA
> (Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
>
>

Here you go:

http://www.williamsnhussey.com/molder/specifications.html

"Nate Perkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Hi Leon,
>
> Thanks, your post did get me thinking. I have done some coves on a
> tablesaw and also the asymmetrical coves. So I can see how the
> concave part of the sides might be done, it it isn't too shallow. I
> might even be able to use a spokeshave to make a smooth convex side.
> But the top of those boxes looks like the concave part varies in depth
> along its length, and the bottom of the box looks like it has a base
> with a 45 along it that was apparently cut from the same board.
>
> I bet with your suggestion I can get 90% of the way there, though ...
> probably just have to compromise on the base.


For those curves going in the opposite direction, I bevel ripped them on the
TS also. Then use a Steve Knight smoother plane to take care of the final
shaping of the convex curves. The concave curves were smoothed up with PSA
sand paper wrapped around a round object close to the size of the cove.
A hint here, try to do all you shaping and sanding before cutting the boards
so that all the corners will be close in shape in case of irregular shaping
on you part. DAMHIKT.

LOL, I'm afraid I am going to make you feel worse. Last time I got to see
one up close and personal it wasn't much bigger then a bench top planer on a
stand. A hell of a lot heavier but not much bigger.

--
L§
"Nate Perkins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > From the pictures on his site he is apparently using a Williams and
Hussey
> > machine. A piece of equipment people who know about mill work like Tom's
is
> > THE machine to own.
>
> Ah, I was afraid of something like that. Well the third bay in my
> gar^H^H shop probably won't hold a Williams and Hussey, even if I
> could afford one (which I probably can't).
>
> Cheers,
> Nate