Whenever I'd build anything in the shop, I'd use a magic
marker-type pen to write:
"my name" "city" and "date" on the underside or a shielded part
of the project. If you've not though to do it, it's a good time
to start, and makes a project much more appreciated when given as
a gift.
--
Nonny
Have you ever wondered if the bills
in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
Have a nice day ..
Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to
> be built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If
> machines are building it (even if it's your design) in a production
> line, or if you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you
> if you make that same claim.
>
Perhaps the criteria should be what was guiding the tools during various
stages of completion. (Autofeeders excepted if the tool requires them to
function properly, like a planer.) If most of them were guided by hand, it
was hand crafted.
Puckdropper
--
Craftsman carving machine for sale: Creates wonderful HandCrafted(tm)
work.
tom <[email protected]> wrote in news:0346d84e-effc-4888-86fa-d0962f4f62c2@
13g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
> We are in the process of rehabbing a rental property, and when the
> original bathroom medicine cabinet was pulled today, behind it,
> written in pencil, was a workman's autograph, the finish date, April
> '59, his local address, and that he was responsible for installing the
> plumbing, electrical and all fixtures. 50-plus years ago. It is nice
> to find these mementos. Tom
>
I'd love to find something like that. He didn't skimp out on workmanship
did he? It might be worth sending him a note (if you think the address is
still good) and letting him know what you found. :-)
We had to learn how to grout last night because the kitchen installers
tiled (and adhered) but didn't grout under the kitchen island. They saved
themselves maybe 20 minutes and NOTHING on material.
Puckdropper
--
Signing my post.
RonB wrote:
>There is an Amish community west of Wichita, Kansas with a couple of
>furniture making operations. One of them has a showroom in front of
>the shop and they have some very nice stuff. In true Amish fashion,
>the showroom is plumbed with gas a illumination is by gas light. We
>were leaving one day and walked past the open shop doors and I did a
>double take.. Then a third take. The shop would have turned Norm
>Abrams green. All new power tools. I queried in town about the
>fully
>mechanized work shop and was told they don't own the equipment. It
>is
>leased. And that is fine.
There is a major Amish community around Kidron, Ohio, home of Lehman
Hardware, which is about 15-20 miles west of Canton, Ohio.
Can think of at least 6 Amish shops building and selling "Amish Oak"
furniture.
Norm would drool looking at any of them.
No cars or trucks around, but plenty of horses.
Also several saw mills in the area.
Right after WWII, my dad sold lubricating oils and greases for the
stationary engines used to develop belt power to drive the saws.
Lew
On Nov 3, 11:36 am, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Whenever I'd build anything in the shop, I'd use a magic
> marker-type pen to write:
>
> "my name" "city" and "date" on the underside or a shielded part
> of the project. If you've not though to do it, it's a good time
> to start, and makes a project much more appreciated when given as
> a gift.
>
> --
> Nonny
>
> Have you ever wondered if the bills
> inyourwallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
> Have a nice day ..
We are in the process of rehabbing a rental property, and when the
original bathroom medicine cabinet was pulled today, behind it,
written in pencil, was a workman's autograph, the finish date, April
'59, his local address, and that he was responsible for installing the
plumbing, electrical and all fixtures. 50-plus years ago. It is nice
to find these mementos. Tom
On Nov 3, 12:36=A0pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Whenever I'd build anything in the shop, I'd use a magic
> marker-type pen to write:
>
> "my name" =A0 "city" =A0and "date" on the underside or a shielded part
> of the project. =A0If you've not though to do it, it's a good time
> to start, and makes a project much more appreciated when given as
> a gift.
>
An easy way to do this is to print your labels with a laser printer
(or copier - print a whole sheet and cut them out) then put one down
and apply the finish over it. If you find the right kind of paper, it
will turn transparent when you apply the finish so only the letters
remain. Sorry, can't recommend a specific paper (onionskin comes to
mind), but a copy shop should be able to print up a variety of paper
stocks for you to experiment with for a few cents per sheet. Using a
computer/laser printer you can print very small, and you can embed
designs or logos, or use "creative" fonts.
Yet another way is to use the heat transfer paper hobbyists use to
make their own printed circuit boards. You print the pattern reversed
on this special paper with a laser printer (or copier), then transfer
the design onto whatever you want by ironing it. I think I've even
seen special paper for making T-shirts this way.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:50a58aa1-274f-4dfa-bc74-955d6be52a4a@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 6:34 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power tools, it
> ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron, also from
> Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
But if you exclude one, you should exclude them all. Not just the
ones you want. Then even your branding iron would actually be an iron
made by a smith, heated in a hot fire.
Robert
**********************************************************************************************
Besides, what's the big deal with a branding iron? Doesn't every bedroom in
America have one of those leaning against the wall?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to be
> built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines are
> building it (even if it's your design) in a production line, or if you're
> having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you if you make that same
> claim.
>
So - somebody else's hands aren't as worthy as your own? Bull.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
RonB <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Even if the hired labor is a bunch of Amish lads who work exclusively and
>> exquisitely with hand tools?
>
>Hand tools?
>
>There is an Amish community west of Wichita, Kansas with a couple of
>furniture making operations. One of them has a showroom in front of
>the shop and they have some very nice stuff. In true Amish fashion,
>the showroom is plumbed with gas a illumination is by gas light. We
>were leaving one day and walked past the open shop doors and I did a
>double take.. Then a third take. The shop would have turned Norm
>Abrams green. All new power tools. I queried in town about the fully
>mechanized work shop and was told they don't own the equipment. It is
>leased. And that is fine.
>
>Also dropped into an Amish furniture store in Eureka Springs Arkansas
>a few years ago where we eventually purchased a bed. I was admiring a
>large and very nicely done walnut plaque with carving of the Lord's
>Prayer surrounded by grapes. Then I looked at the one next to it and
>it was identical. I asked the salesperson how long the Amish had been
>doing laser etching. She smiled are responded "Well, they farm some
>of their stuff out to the Mennonites."
Contrary to popular belief, the Amish do not reject all technology out
of hand.
D.
--
Touch-twice life. Eat. Drink. Laugh.
http://derekl1963.livejournal.com/
-Resolved: To be more temperate in my postings.
Oct 5th, 2004 JDL
On Nov 3, 6:34=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:22:09 -0800, RonB wrote:
> > Woodcraft sells an electric wood burning "branding iron" that says "Han=
d
> > Crafted by (name). =A0You can order it and specify name or organization
> > for name. =A0Our daughter got me one for Christmas a few years ago and =
it
> > works pretty well.
>
> > RonB
>
> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". =A0If I used power tools, i=
t
> ain't so - at least in my view. =A0That's why my branding iron, also from
> Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
>
> --
> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
Well, my daughter chose the wording when she ordered the gift.
But I personally don't see a problem with "hand-crafted". By the time
I band-saw, glue and form (with drum sander or rasps) the 90 to 100
pieces of hardwood it takes to make a rocking horse or similar item,
even using mostly Norm tools, I feel like it is hand crafted.
On Nov 3, 6:34=A0pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". =A0If I used power tools, i=
t
> ain't so - at least in my view. =A0That's why my branding iron, also from
> Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
FUSSY.... Yikes! What a nice way to say it. Did your hands guide the
saw and set it up to cut? Did you mark and measure? Did you sand and
finish?
Or was it cut out on a CNC machine, sanded by a CNC machine, assembled
by machines that glued, pressed and joined the materials, then sprayed
it with robotic arms to apply the finish and cured the finish in an
ultraviolet oven?
Using a strict standard, Duncan Phyfe and his contemporaries could not
claim "hand crafted" work. He used steam and water power, as did
those that prepared lumber for his use. He had a cadre of apprentices
that worked under him as well as fellow craftsmen that assisted him in
his efforts. It seems to be an unsure bit of ground (given his
output) to determine how much Duncan Phyfe is <all> Duncan Phyfe.
It's great to hold yourself to that ultrahigh standard, but remember,
NOTHING you will make will make the absolute of "hand crafted". I
don't think people expect you t brew your own finishes, make your own
sandpaper, mill your own boards or use a hand plane to smooth out all
of the mill marks from rough sawn lumber (sawed by a machine), or to
hand plane your boards to thickness.
It's OK to use some power tools. Trust me...
But if you exclude one, you should exclude them all. Not just the
ones you want. Then even your branding iron would actually be an iron
made by a smith, heated in a hot fire.
Robert
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:26:15 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>Puckdropper wrote:
>> Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to
>>> be built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If
>>> machines are building it (even if it's your design) in a production
>>> line, or if you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you
>>> if you make that same claim.
>>>
>>
>> Perhaps the criteria should be what was guiding the tools during various
>> stages of completion. (Autofeeders excepted if the tool requires them to
>> function properly, like a planer.) If most of them were guided by hand, it
>> was hand crafted.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>
>Or we could just put this whole hair-splitting thing to rest with very
>little loss of meaning by claiming the item was "Crafted by ..." instead
>of "Hand-crafted by ..."
Yeah, sure.
And the word "craft" comes up in the buyer's mind and they think PUKEY
DUCKS and the whole price structure comes tumbling down in a mass of
flames.
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to be
>>> built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines
>>> are building it (even if it's your design) in a production line, or if
>>> you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you if you make
>>> that same claim.
>>>
>>
>> So - somebody else's hands aren't as worthy as your own? Bull.
>
> Jeezus, how many different ways can I be misinterpreted? As I explained
> elsewhere: I meant that I wouldn't sign it "Hand crafted by Steve Turner"
> if I'd hired others to do the work.
>
The nature of usenet Steve. We read what you originally posted before we
get to the later posts by you. Don't get testy though - you are the one
that posted the phrase that was so easily misunderstood. Happens. Life
goes on.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Nov 3, 1:36=A0pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Have you ever wondered if the bills
> in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
> Have a nice day ..
That is oh-so yesterday. These days, a fella slides his debit card
down the strippers crack.
>
> There is a major Amish community around Kidron, Ohio, home of Lehman
> Hardware, which is about 15-20 miles west of Canton, Ohio.
>
> Can think of at least 6 Amish shops building and selling "Amish Oak"
> furniture.
>
> Norm would drool looking at any of them.
>
> No cars or trucks around, but plenty of horses.
>
> Also several saw mills in the area.
>
> Right after WWII, my dad sold lubricating oils and greases for the
> stationary engines used to develop belt power to drive the saws.
>
> Lew
I respect their beliefs and the fact that Amish seem to pass them on
to a significant number of their children. A little technology creep
is going to occur over time. If they are going to compete with mass-
produced stuff then they need to be able to build it more
efficiently. Hopefully they won't reach a point where they produce in
quantities that sends their legendary quality out the door. At that
point they will just have to break down and buy (lease) a building
full of computers and let the accountants take over all phases of
their craft.
Ron
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:34:59 -0600, Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power tools, it
>ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron, also from
>Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
I went with the "Handcrafted By..." one because, "Built According To
The Ethic Of The Workmanship Of Risk" was too long.
Regards,
Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/
"StephenM" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I bought a branding iron from these guys:
>
> http://www.brandnew.net/
>
> I suspect that these as the guys that Woodcraft etc. outsource
> their orders to.
>
> I struggled with the language "handcrafted by...from the shop
> of... created by..." for a while until I concluded that when
> artists sign their work they don't write "Painted by...." and
> neither should I.
>
> My signature is illegible so that wasn't a good choice
>
> They will accept a PDF file as a spec so I could make anything I
> wanted. I settled on a slightly stylized version of my initials
> and surname. It's as much a logo as a "signature".
>
I was given a branding iron, but after using it a few times,
decided to go back to my old handwritten version. Typically, I'd
print out: Nonny Nonnymus
Raleigh, NC
Christmas 1991
The branding iron didn't let me insert a date and I also felt that
since I had made the gift or item, that the handwritten note was
more personal. If the item had been intended for commercial
distribution, which nothing was, then the more professional brand
would be my choice as well.
--
Nonny
You cannot make a stupid kid smart by
handing him a diploma. Schools need standards
to measure the amount of education actually
absorbed by children. Dont sacrifice the smart
kids to make the dumb ones feel good about themselves.
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:16:20 +0800, diggerop wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:50a58aa1-274f-4dfa-
[email protected]...
> On Nov 3, 6:34 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power tools, it
>> ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron, also from
>> Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
>
>>snip
>
> It's great to hold yourself to that ultrahigh standard, but remember,
> NOTHING you will make will make the absolute of "hand crafted".
Agreed. I think some people read more into my response than I meant.
For example, I consider anything I turn on my lathe to be handcrafted,
even though I didn't make the lathe or the tools.
But when I build a jewelry box by running the rough lumber through my
jointer, planer, thickness sander, and table saw or bandsaw, finish sand
with an ROS, and finish with a spray, I just can't make myself call that
handcrafted, even if I cut the dovetails by hand.
Others are welcome to do so. I'm not denigrating their choice nor am I
trying to convert everyone to my way. It's just the way I think (or
not,according to my wife).
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:50a58aa1-274f-4dfa-bc74-955d6be52a4a@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 3, 6:34 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power tools, it
> ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron, also from
> Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
>snip
It's great to hold yourself to that ultrahigh standard, but remember,
NOTHING you will make will make the absolute of "hand crafted". I
don't think people expect you t brew your own finishes, make your own
sandpaper, mill your own boards or use a hand plane to smooth out all
of the mill marks from rough sawn lumber (sawed by a machine), or to
hand plane your boards to thickness.
It's OK to use some power tools. Trust me...
But if you exclude one, you should exclude them all. Not just the
ones you want. Then even your branding iron would actually be an iron
made by a smith, heated in a hot fire.
Robert
That's my view also.
I can only remember one occasion when I produced anything that came close to
the definition of hand made. There was an old shed that my employer's
pioneer grandfather had built from bush timber. A fire damaged much of the
framework, so he decided that we would totally rebuild it, using the same
methods as the originals as a tribute to them. He also held the view that
building things entirely by hand was "character building and good for the
soul," even if no longer practical.
We felled the timber (Gimlet) with axes, trimmed and shaped the logs with
adze, axe and handsaw.
Holes were bored in the timber with a brace and auger bit. No nails were
used, instead the structure was held together with heavy galvanised wire.
The holes for the uprights were all dug by hand using crowbar and shovel. We
would have used horses to transport the logs, but they were long since
gone, - so we compromised and hauled them with a '38 Ford sidevalve V8
truck. The structure still stands today, as good as when we built it. (That
was about 40 years ago.)
We went at ot non-stop and it was some of the hardest sustained physical
work I can recall, - it gave me a better sense of just how tough and
resourceful the early pioneers were prior to the advent of machinery. It was
also one of the most satisfying experiences I've ever had. : )
diggerop
On Nov 3, 12:36=A0pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Whenever I'd build anything in the shop, I'd use a magic
> marker-type pen to write:
>
> "my name" =A0 "city" =A0and "date" on the underside or a shielded part
> of the project. =A0If you've not though to do it, it's a good time
> to start, and makes a project much more appreciated when given as
> a gift.
Yes it does. Not so much now, but it will later. It doesn't mean
much if it says "Christmas, 2007", but it does if it says "Christmas
1977".
When visiting my sister a year or so ago, she pulled out a little
keepsake box I made for her in 1968. We know it was because I burned
my initials and the date on it with my woodburning tool. The box was
completely cut with a hand saw, sanded to death, and had some kind of
stain infused colored finish that I also put on the hinges.
I was kind of touched she kept it for over 40 years. She told me that
every time she runs across it when cleaning she smiles.
Robert
On Nov 5, 8:55=A0am, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> RonB wrote:
> >> There is a major Amish community around Kidron, Ohio, home of Lehman
> >> Hardware, which is about 15-20 miles west of Canton, Ohio.
>
> >> Can think of at least 6 Amish shops building and selling "Amish Oak"
> >> furniture.
>
> >> Norm would drool looking at any of them.
>
> >> No cars or trucks around, but plenty of horses.
>
> >> Also several saw mills in the area.
>
> >> Right after WWII, my dad sold lubricating oils and greases for the
> >> stationary engines used to develop belt power to drive the saws.
>
> >> Lew
>
> > I respect their beliefs and the fact that Amish seem to pass them on
> > to a significant number of their children. =A0A little technology creep
> > is going to occur over time. =A0If they are going to compete with mass-
> > produced stuff then they need to be able to build it more
> > efficiently. =A0Hopefully they won't reach a point where they produce i=
n
> > quantities that sends their legendary quality out the door. =A0At that
> > point they will just have to break down and buy (lease) a building
> > full of computers and let the accountants take over all phases of
> > their craft.
>
> I understand that their rule is "you may try this new thing, but be prepa=
red
> to give it up if it causes problems for the community", and that they mak=
e a
> distinction between business and home--what's OK for your furniture facto=
ry
> isn't OK for your garage workshop. =A0A factory full of NC machines isn't
> going to damage the cohesion of their community in the same way that
> everyone parked in front of the boob tube will do, for example.
Right. The Amish have eschewed luxuries, not business. They'll often
have a phone in the barn, or by the road, but not in the house. They
even have web sites, but I doubt they surf the web much.
> Something to consider about the Amish is that they all _choose_ to be
> Amish--they aren't even baptized until as adults they ask to be, and that
> decision comes _after_ they've spent some time exploring the outside worl=
d.
>
> They aren't ignorant luddites, but they are careful about the effects tha=
t
> technology will have on their communities and they see the cohesion of th=
e
> community as being of great importance.
Absolutely. The Amish I've done business with are highly intelligent
and genuinely nice people to do business with.
"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> But the subject line reads: "signing _your_ work". And no matter how many
> times I re-read my own post (and the posts leading up to it) I don't
> really see how it could be misunderstood. Of course, my wife never seems
> to know what I'm talking about either, so go figure.
>
I understand that. Happens to me all the time. I think it's a wife thing.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
> Even if the hired labor is a bunch of Amish lads who work exclusively and
> exquisitely with hand tools?
Hand tools?
There is an Amish community west of Wichita, Kansas with a couple of
furniture making operations. One of them has a showroom in front of
the shop and they have some very nice stuff. In true Amish fashion,
the showroom is plumbed with gas a illumination is by gas light. We
were leaving one day and walked past the open shop doors and I did a
double take.. Then a third take. The shop would have turned Norm
Abrams green. All new power tools. I queried in town about the fully
mechanized work shop and was told they don't own the equipment. It is
leased. And that is fine.
Also dropped into an Amish furniture store in Eureka Springs Arkansas
a few years ago where we eventually purchased a bed. I was admiring a
large and very nicely done walnut plaque with carving of the Lord's
Prayer surrounded by grapes. Then I looked at the one next to it and
it was identical. I asked the salesperson how long the Amish had been
doing laser etching. She smiled are responded "Well, they farm some
of their stuff out to the Mennonites."
On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:22:09 -0800, RonB wrote:
> Woodcraft sells an electric wood burning "branding iron" that says "Hand
> Crafted by (name). You can order it and specify name or organization
> for name. Our daughter got me one for Christmas a few years ago and it
> works pretty well.
>
> RonB
I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power tools, it
ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron, also from
Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:22:55 -0500, the infamous Tom Watson
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:29:06 -0800, Larry Jaques
><novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote:
>
>
>> PUKEYDUCKS
>
>blink
>
>blink...blink
>
>...sigh...
Missing O'Deen there, are ya, Tawmy? Y'mean to tell me that nobody
has been using that term for the past several years? It's the very
best description of that craft crap that I've ever heard.
P.S: It's two words, PUKEY DUCKS. You'll need to know that for your
advertising.
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
On Nov 8, 7:13 pm, Puckdropper <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
> tom <[email protected]> wrote in news:0346d84e-effc-4888-86fa-d0962f4f62c2@
> 13g2000prl.googlegroups.com:
>
> > We are in the process of rehabbing a rental property, and when the
> > original bathroom medicine cabinet was pulled today, behind it,
> > written in pencil, was a workman's autograph, the finish date, April
> > '59, his local address, and that he was responsible for installing the
> > plumbing, electrical and all fixtures. 50-plus years ago. It is nice
> > to find these mementos. Tom
>
> I'd love to find something like that. He didn't skimp out on workmanship
> did he? It might be worth sending him a note (if you think the address is
> still good) and letting him know what you found. :-)
>
> We had to learn how to grout last night because the kitchen installers
> tiled (and adhered) but didn't grout under the kitchen island. They saved
> themselves maybe 20 minutes and NOTHING on material.
>
> Puckdropper
> --
> Signing my post.
The fifty year-old work is mostly still going strong. We have had to
replace some of the buried galvanized water pipes in the last few
years, one just last weekend. I wish pipes would break during the
week. Check that. I wish pipes wouldn't break! Tom
On Nov 4, 8:15=A0pm, "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote:
> RonB wrote:
> >There is an Amish community west of Wichita, Kansas with a couple of
> >furniture making operations. =A0One of them has a showroom in front of
> >the shop and they have some very nice stuff. =A0In true Amish fashion,
> >the showroom is plumbed with gas a illumination is by gas light. =A0We
> >were leaving one day and walked past the open shop doors and I did a
> >double take.. =A0Then a third take. =A0The shop would have turned Norm
> >Abrams green. =A0All new power tools. =A0I queried in town about the
> >fully
> >mechanized work shop and was told they don't own the equipment. =A0It
> >is
> >leased. =A0And that is fine.
>
> There is a major Amish community around Kidron, Ohio, home of Lehman
> Hardware, which is about 15-20 miles west of Canton, Ohio.
>
> Can think of at least 6 Amish shops building and selling "Amish Oak"
> furniture.
>
> Norm would drool looking at any of them.
We bought our dining and bedroom sets last year from one of them, in
Navarre, OH. The salesman took me on a cook's tour of their shop.
They're not connected to the grid, but have a line of Cummins
generators to power their shop. A few of the shops around had gas
lighting; no electricity at all. Of course some shops in town sold
Chamish stuff, too. Others were essentially consignment shops for the
local craftsmen (and women). We also bought a quilt from one of the
latter. They took special orders too, but we didn't think we'd be in
the area for two years.
Dining room:
http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?colle=
ction=3D117
Bedroom:
http://www.greenacresfurniture.com/catalog/content/productcollection/?colle=
ction=3D118
> No cars or trucks around, but plenty of horses.
Plenty. Watch the hills. Buggies like to hide on the other side.
> Also several saw mills in the area.
The above does their own milling. They buy the logs in PA, IIRC.
I bought a branding iron from these guys:
http://www.brandnew.net/
I suspect that these as the guys that Woodcraft etc. outsource their orders
to.
I struggled with the language "handcrafted by...from the shop of... created
by..." for a while until I concluded that when artists sign their work they
don't write "Painted by...." and neither should I.
My signature is illegible so that wasn't a good choice
They will accept a PDF file as a spec so I could make anything I wanted. I
settled on a slightly stylized version of my initials and surname. It's as
much a logo as a "signature".
-Steve
"RonB" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:24a450c9-0d45-4337-962c-f39037cc15e4@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
> Woodcraft sells an electric wood burning "branding iron" that says
> "Hand Crafted by (name). You can order it and specify name or
> organization for name. Our daughter got me one for Christmas a few
> years ago and it works pretty well.
>
> RonB
I provide some of my customers with a provenance of the article I made for
them. This includes photos taken from each stage of manufacture from the
planks of wood to the finished job.
One box owner told me it made his box very special. The box was for his
subbuteo players and has now travelled around most of Europe as he plays in
many international tournaments.
Alan
Retired
...so yes I do have all day!
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Nov 3, 12:36 pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Whenever I'd build anything in the shop, I'd use a magic
> marker-type pen to write:
>
> "my name" "city" and "date" on the underside or a shielded part
> of the project. If you've not though to do it, it's a good time
> to start, and makes a project much more appreciated when given as
> a gift.
Yes it does. Not so much now, but it will later. It doesn't mean
much if it says "Christmas, 2007", but it does if it says "Christmas
1977".
When visiting my sister a year or so ago, she pulled out a little
keepsake box I made for her in 1968. We know it was because I burned
my initials and the date on it with my woodburning tool. The box was
completely cut with a hand saw, sanded to death, and had some kind of
stain infused colored finish that I also put on the hinges.
I was kind of touched she kept it for over 40 years. She told me that
every time she runs across it when cleaning she smiles.
Robert
RonB wrote:
> On Nov 3, 6:34 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:22:09 -0800, RonB wrote:
>>> Woodcraft sells an electric wood burning "branding iron" that says "Hand
>>> Crafted by (name). You can order it and specify name or organization
>>> for name. Our daughter got me one for Christmas a few years ago and it
>>> works pretty well.
>>> RonB
>> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power tools, it
>> ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron, also from
>> Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
>>
>> --
>> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
>
> Well, my daughter chose the wording when she ordered the gift.
>
> But I personally don't see a problem with "hand-crafted". By the time
> I band-saw, glue and form (with drum sander or rasps) the 90 to 100
> pieces of hardwood it takes to make a rocking horse or similar item,
> even using mostly Norm tools, I feel like it is hand crafted.
If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to be built, then why
shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines are building it (even if it's your
design) in a production line, or if you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on
you if you make that same claim.
--
Free bad advice available here.
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Steve Turner wrote:
> RonB wrote:
>> On Nov 3, 6:34 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 12:22:09 -0800, RonB wrote:
>>>> Woodcraft sells an electric wood burning "branding iron" that says
>>>> "Hand Crafted by (name). You can order it and specify name or
>>>> organization for name. Our daughter got me one for Christmas a
>>>> few years ago and it works pretty well.
>>>> RonB
>>> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power
>>> tools, it ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding
>>> iron, also from Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
>>>
>>> --
>>> Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
>>
>> Well, my daughter chose the wording when she ordered the gift.
>>
>> But I personally don't see a problem with "hand-crafted". By the
>> time I band-saw, glue and form (with drum sander or rasps) the 90 to
>> 100 pieces of hardwood it takes to make a rocking horse or similar
>> item, even using mostly Norm tools, I feel like it is hand crafted.
>
> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to
> be built, then why
> shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines are building
> it (even if it's your
> design) in a production line, or if you're having hired labor do it
> for you, then shame on
> you if you make that same claim.
Even if the hired labor is a bunch of Amish lads who work exclusively and
exquisitely with hand tools?
Puckdropper wrote:
> Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to
>> be built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If
>> machines are building it (even if it's your design) in a production
>> line, or if you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you
>> if you make that same claim.
>>
>
> Perhaps the criteria should be what was guiding the tools during various
> stages of completion. (Autofeeders excepted if the tool requires them to
> function properly, like a planer.) If most of them were guided by hand, it
> was hand crafted.
>
> Puckdropper
Once you've seen these mass-production factories making stuff that is
about 95 percent machine handled, you have no problem using the term
"hand crafted," even if you use power tools.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Steve Turner wrote:
> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to be
> built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines
> are building it (even if it's your design) in a production line, or if
> you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you if you make
> that same claim.
Hmm - not wanting to accrue bad karma, I suppose I should ask where /I/
stand with my solar panels, since I cut those parts which require
precision with a CNC router (about 10% of the total), and produce the
remainder and do all of the assembly with my own shaky hands.
Should I be warning people that it's 90% hand crafted? :-T
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
RonB wrote:
>> Even if the hired labor is a bunch of Amish lads who work
>> exclusively and exquisitely with hand tools?
>
> Hand tools?
>
> There is an Amish community west of Wichita, Kansas with a couple of
> furniture making operations. One of them has a showroom in front of
> the shop and they have some very nice stuff. In true Amish fashion,
> the showroom is plumbed with gas a illumination is by gas light. We
> were leaving one day and walked past the open shop doors and I did a
> double take.. Then a third take. The shop would have turned Norm
> Abrams green. All new power tools. I queried in town about the fully
> mechanized work shop and was told they don't own the equipment. It is
> leased. And that is fine.
>
> Also dropped into an Amish furniture store in Eureka Springs Arkansas
> a few years ago where we eventually purchased a bed. I was admiring a
> large and very nicely done walnut plaque with carving of the Lord's
> Prayer surrounded by grapes. Then I looked at the one next to it and
> it was identical. I asked the salesperson how long the Amish had been
> doing laser etching. She smiled are responded "Well, they farm some
> of their stuff out to the Mennonites."
I'm aware that such shops exist, however that is not the kind of shop I was
postulating.
J. Clarke wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to
>> be built, then why
>> shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines are building
>> it (even if it's your
>> design) in a production line, or if you're having hired labor do it
>> for you, then shame on
>> you if you make that same claim.
>
> Even if the hired labor is a bunch of Amish lads who work exclusively and
> exquisitely with hand tools?
I meant that I wouldn't sign it "Hand crafted by Steve Turner" if I'd
hired others to do the work.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Puckdropper wrote:
> Steve Turner <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to
>> be built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If
>> machines are building it (even if it's your design) in a production
>> line, or if you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you
>> if you make that same claim.
>>
>
> Perhaps the criteria should be what was guiding the tools during various
> stages of completion. (Autofeeders excepted if the tool requires them to
> function properly, like a planer.) If most of them were guided by hand, it
> was hand crafted.
>
> Puckdropper
Or we could just put this whole hair-splitting thing to rest with very
little loss of meaning by claiming the item was "Crafted by ..." instead
of "Hand-crafted by ..."
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Steve Turner wrote:
> Or we could just put this whole hair-splitting thing to rest with very
> little loss of meaning by claiming the item was "Crafted by ..." instead
> of "Hand-crafted by ..."
>
We could take it over to rmmp and talk about all the "Kustom" drum
makers out there, today, selling assembled parts.
Hmmm, think I'll start the IKEA Keastom Drum Keampany. :-)
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
RonB wrote:
>> There is a major Amish community around Kidron, Ohio, home of Lehman
>> Hardware, which is about 15-20 miles west of Canton, Ohio.
>>
>> Can think of at least 6 Amish shops building and selling "Amish Oak"
>> furniture.
>>
>> Norm would drool looking at any of them.
>>
>> No cars or trucks around, but plenty of horses.
>>
>> Also several saw mills in the area.
>>
>> Right after WWII, my dad sold lubricating oils and greases for the
>> stationary engines used to develop belt power to drive the saws.
>>
>> Lew
>
> I respect their beliefs and the fact that Amish seem to pass them on
> to a significant number of their children. A little technology creep
> is going to occur over time. If they are going to compete with mass-
> produced stuff then they need to be able to build it more
> efficiently. Hopefully they won't reach a point where they produce in
> quantities that sends their legendary quality out the door. At that
> point they will just have to break down and buy (lease) a building
> full of computers and let the accountants take over all phases of
> their craft.
I understand that their rule is "you may try this new thing, but be prepared
to give it up if it causes problems for the community", and that they make a
distinction between business and home--what's OK for your furniture factory
isn't OK for your garage workshop. A factory full of NC machines isn't
going to damage the cohesion of their community in the same way that
everyone parked in front of the boob tube will do, for example.
Something to consider about the Amish is that they all _choose_ to be
Amish--they aren't even baptized until as adults they ask to be, and that
decision comes _after_ they've spent some time exploring the outside world.
They aren't ignorant luddites, but they are careful about the effects that
technology will have on their communities and they see the cohesion of the
community as being of great importance.
Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:26:15 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner
>> Or we could just put this whole hair-splitting thing to rest with very
>> little loss of meaning by claiming the item was "Crafted by ..." instead
>> of "Hand-crafted by ..."
>
> Yeah, sure.
>
> And the word "craft" comes up in the buyer's mind and they think PUKEY
> DUCKS and the whole price structure comes tumbling down in a mass of
> flames.
I guess you just "can't please all of the people..."
Now I'm starting to lean towards "This item lovingly shat from the ass of ..."
--
"Our beer goes through thousands of quality Czechs every day."
(From a Shiner Bock billboard I saw in Austin some years ago)
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to be
>> built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines are
>> building it (even if it's your design) in a production line, or if you're
>> having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you if you make that same
>> claim.
>>
>
> So - somebody else's hands aren't as worthy as your own? Bull.
Jeezus, how many different ways can I be misinterpreted? As I explained
elsewhere: I meant that I wouldn't sign it "Hand crafted by Steve
Turner" if I'd hired others to do the work.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Mike Marlow wrote:
> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> "Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> If you're a one-man operation and your hands are causing the thing to be
>>>> built, then why shouldn't you be able to make that claim? If machines
>>>> are building it (even if it's your design) in a production line, or if
>>>> you're having hired labor do it for you, then shame on you if you make
>>>> that same claim.
>>>>
>>> So - somebody else's hands aren't as worthy as your own? Bull.
>> Jeezus, how many different ways can I be misinterpreted? As I explained
>> elsewhere: I meant that I wouldn't sign it "Hand crafted by Steve Turner"
>> if I'd hired others to do the work.
>>
>
> The nature of usenet Steve. We read what you originally posted before we
> get to the later posts by you. Don't get testy though - you are the one
> that posted the phrase that was so easily misunderstood. Happens. Life
> goes on.
But the subject line reads: "signing _your_ work". And no matter how
many times I re-read my own post (and the posts leading up to it) I
don't really see how it could be misunderstood. Of course, my wife
never seems to know what I'm talking about either, so go figure.
--
"Even if your wife is happy but you're unhappy, you're still happier
than you'd be if you were happy and your wife was unhappy." - Red Green
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
"Robatoy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6349ae61-ef2d-460d-a0c8-aa59caf6b406@v30g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> On Nov 3, 1:36 pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Have you ever wondered if the bills
>> in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
>> Have a nice day ..
>
> That is oh-so yesterday. These days, a fella slides his debit
> card
> down the strippers crack.
I owe you a big, "Thanks," since I hate sounding my age. <grin>
--
Nonny
Have you ever wondered if the bills
in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
Have a nice day ..
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Nov 3, 12:36 pm, "Nonny" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Whenever I'd build anything in the shop, I'd use a magic
>> marker-type pen to write:
>>
>> "my name" "city" and "date" on the underside or a shielded
>> part
>> of the project. If you've not though to do it, it's a good
>> time
>> to start, and makes a project much more appreciated when given
>> as
>> a gift.
>
> Yes it does. Not so much now, but it will later. It doesn't
> mean
> much if it says "Christmas, 2007", but it does if it says
> "Christmas
> 1977".
>
> When visiting my sister a year or so ago, she pulled out a
> little
> keepsake box I made for her in 1968. We know it was because I
> burned
> my initials and the date on it with my woodburning tool. The
> box was
> completely cut with a hand saw, sanded to death, and had some
> kind of
> stain infused colored finish that I also put on the hinges.
>
> I was kind of touched she kept it for over 40 years. She told
> me that
> every time she runs across it when cleaning she smiles.
One of my uncles taught me to sign my work, and he always signed
his. This was back in the 1950's. Then, one day he was at a yard
sale and saw something familiar. Somebody had put one of his ash
trays out for sale. He bought it himself, and never gave them
anything again.
--
Nonny
Have you ever wondered if the bills
in your wallet were ever in a stripper's butt crack?
Have a nice day ..
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 10:42:30 -0800, the infamous "Nonny"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:16:20 +0800, diggerop wrote:
>>
>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:50a58aa1-274f-4dfa-
>> [email protected]...
>>> On Nov 3, 6:34 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power
>>>> tools, it
>>>> ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron,
>>>> also from
>>>> Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
>>>
>>>>snip
>>>
>>> It's great to hold yourself to that ultrahigh standard, but
>>> remember,
>>> NOTHING you will make will make the absolute of "hand crafted".
>>
>> Agreed. I think some people read more into my response than I
>> meant.
>> For example, I consider anything I turn on my lathe to be
>> handcrafted,
>> even though I didn't make the lathe or the tools.
>>
>> But when I build a jewelry box by running the rough lumber
>> through my
>> jointer, planer, thickness sander, and table saw or bandsaw,
>> finish sand
>> with an ROS, and finish with a spray, I just can't make myself
>> call that
>> handcrafted, even if I cut the dovetails by hand.
>>
>> Others are welcome to do so. I'm not denigrating their choice
>> nor am I
>> trying to convert everyone to my way. It's just the way I think
>> (or
>> not,according to my wife).
>
>
>You can circumvent all the "ethics" questions- if there actually
>are any- by signing the work
>
>Joe Blow
>Anywhere USA
>Christmas 2009
Nix the "Christmas" part. It'll reduce sales and resales by limiting
it to people who are of (and still like) that particular religion.
November or December would be neutral, but most folks just use the
year of manufacture.
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:16:20 +0800, diggerop wrote:
>
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:50a58aa1-274f-4dfa-
> [email protected]...
>> On Nov 3, 6:34 pm, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power
>>> tools, it
>>> ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron,
>>> also from
>>> Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
>>
>>>snip
>>
>> It's great to hold yourself to that ultrahigh standard, but
>> remember,
>> NOTHING you will make will make the absolute of "hand crafted".
>
> Agreed. I think some people read more into my response than I
> meant.
> For example, I consider anything I turn on my lathe to be
> handcrafted,
> even though I didn't make the lathe or the tools.
>
> But when I build a jewelry box by running the rough lumber
> through my
> jointer, planer, thickness sander, and table saw or bandsaw,
> finish sand
> with an ROS, and finish with a spray, I just can't make myself
> call that
> handcrafted, even if I cut the dovetails by hand.
>
> Others are welcome to do so. I'm not denigrating their choice
> nor am I
> trying to convert everyone to my way. It's just the way I think
> (or
> not,according to my wife).
You can circumvent all the "ethics" questions- if there actually
are any- by signing the work
Joe Blow
Anywhere USA
Christmas 2009
That's what I did and it conveys the personalization and the fact
that I "somehow" built it, where I built it and when I built it.
The magic marker I used was applied to the wood before finishing,
so it's protected and submerged in the finish.
--
Nonny
You cannot make a stupid kid smart by
handing him a diploma. Schools need standards
to measure the amount of education actually
absorbed by children. Donât sacrifice the smart
kids to make the dumb ones feel good about themselves.
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 09:47:10 -0500, the infamous Tom Watson
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On Tue, 03 Nov 2009 18:34:59 -0600, Larry Blanchard
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>I guess I'm a bit fussy about "Hand Crafted". If I used power tools, it
>>ain't so - at least in my view. That's why my branding iron, also from
>>Woodcraft, says "From the shop of (name)".
>
>
>I went with the "Handcrafted By..." one because, "Built According To
>The Ethic Of The Workmanship Of Risk" was too long.
Ah, nice Confuse-a-Cat title. I like it!
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
On Fri, 6 Nov 2009 07:22:30 -0500, the infamous "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>"Steve Turner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>>
>> But the subject line reads: "signing _your_ work". And no matter how many
>> times I re-read my own post (and the posts leading up to it) I don't
>> really see how it could be misunderstood. Of course, my wife never seems
>> to know what I'm talking about either, so go figure.
>>
>
>I understand that. Happens to me all the time. I think it's a wife thing.
See? I'm not a confirmed bachelor for _nothing_.
[my sexist second sentence deleted out of politeness]
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
On Thu, 05 Nov 2009 12:29:39 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 22:26:15 -0600, the infamous Steve Turner
>>> Or we could just put this whole hair-splitting thing to rest with very
>>> little loss of meaning by claiming the item was "Crafted by ..." instead
>>> of "Hand-crafted by ..."
>>
>> Yeah, sure.
>>
>> And the word "craft" comes up in the buyer's mind and they think PUKEY
>> DUCKS and the whole price structure comes tumbling down in a mass of
>> flames.
>
>I guess you just "can't please all of the people..."
>
>Now I'm starting to lean towards "This item lovingly shat from the ass of ..."
Splendid! Truth in advertising for most of us. <titter>
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 10:36:14 -0800, "Nonny" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Whenever I'd build anything in the shop, I'd use a magic
>marker-type pen to write:
>
>"my name" "city" and "date" on the underside or a shielded part
>of the project. If you've not though to do it, it's a good time
>to start, and makes a project much more appreciated when given as
>a gift.
I use a branding iron.
Regards,
Tom Watson
http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1/