Being an extreme amateur, I want to accomplish building a media cabinet,
roughly 5 1/2" H x 2' D x 4' W. I plan to use MDF and poplar for the face
since we plan to paint it and being my first real big project, screwing up
on more expensive wood doesn't appeal to me, but I would like to dress it
fairly nice with a top and bottom decorative type molding or something.
Therefore, I'm asking for a starting point, dos and don'ts, tips, tricks and
perhaps a website or video which may help me move along.
I would like to make the doors raised panels. There will be four doors, two
on top, two on bottom with a center shelf secured and movable shelves
elsewhere, but the bottom half will have a center vertical divider which
will have smaller shelving on each side.
Also, I plan to dado the secured shelf and divider but is it better to dado
the face boards, biscuit (which I don't have), nail into place or something
else?
Thank you
On 11/04/2009 07:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:41:54 -0500, the infamous "SBH" <[email protected]>
> scrawled the following:
>> I thought about using plywood, but I am always concerned about the knots
>> somewhat displaying through even after painting. Though, I'm painting a dark
>> brown, I suppose I could reconsider.
>
> Yeah, those CDX blows just don't display well at all, do they?
I sympathize with the original poster.
Around here "made in North America" maple A1 ply is about $95/sheet.
"Made in China" shop birch is currently on sale at $40/sheet. MDF is
$23/sheet, PB is even less.
If money is tight, MDF or PB can be appealing.
Chris
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 16:13:19 -0500, "SBH" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Being an extreme amateur, I want to accomplish building a media cabinet,
>roughly 5 1/2" H x 2' D x 4' W. I plan to use MDF and poplar for the face
>since we plan to paint it and being my first real big project, screwing up
>on more expensive wood doesn't appeal to me, but I would like to dress it
>fairly nice with a top and bottom decorative type molding or something.
>Therefore, I'm asking for a starting point, dos and don'ts, tips, tricks and
>perhaps a website or video which may help me move along.
>
>I would like to make the doors raised panels. There will be four doors, two
>on top, two on bottom with a center shelf secured and movable shelves
>elsewhere, but the bottom half will have a center vertical divider which
>will have smaller shelving on each side.
>
>Also, I plan to dado the secured shelf and divider but is it better to dado
>the face boards, biscuit (which I don't have), nail into place or something
>else?
>
>Thank you
>
You can use finish nails and fill the countersunk holes with glazing
compound (or Bondo) before you prime. The biscuits may be a better
choice for clear finishes provided you have enough clamps. The MDF is
good for panels, but sags if used for shelving. If using standards,
install after the finish.
"Larry Jaques" <novalidaddress@di\/ersify.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:36:30 -0600, the infamous Chris Friesen
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>>On 11/04/2009 07:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:41:54 -0500, the infamous "SBH" <[email protected]>
>>> scrawled the following:
>>
>>>> I thought about using plywood, but I am always concerned about the
>>>> knots
>>>> somewhat displaying through even after painting. Though, I'm painting a
>>>> dark
>>>> brown, I suppose I could reconsider.
>>>
>>> Yeah, those CDX blows just don't display well at all, do they?
>>
>>I sympathize with the original poster.
>>
>>Around here "made in North America" maple A1 ply is about $95/sheet.
>>"Made in China" shop birch is currently on sale at $40/sheet. MDF is
>>$23/sheet, PB is even less.
>
> I stocked up on Baltic birch when it went on sale locally for
> $21/sheet (5' squares of 1/2".) 1/4 of one went for a sled and the
> rest will become drawers (unfinished) some day in the far future.
> <sigh> Hmm, I'll have about 4 hours tomorrow morning before the rains
> hit. I should continue taking crap out of my shop and putting it in
> the pump house. I'll get out the kukri and hack a trail through that
> shop _yet_, by golly! Hey, before I do that, is there any contest on
> for the messiest shop? I'll win a new tablesaur!
>
>
>>If money is tight, MDF or PB can be appealing.
>
> And when -isn't- money tight?
>
When you're Bill Gates, Donald Trump or any other filthy rich celebrity or
business person.
On 11/04/2009 01:30 PM, SBH wrote:
> I've decided on the plywood. When applying the face across the center
> stationary shelf, do I center the face, use the top portion flushed with the
> shelf or bottom with a lip at top?
It's really up to you. I would consider the usual method to be with the
top of the shelf flush and a bit of lip on the bottom.
Chris
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 06:57:35 -0500, the infamous "J. Clarke"
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>Steve Turner wrote:
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> I stocked up on Baltic birch when it went on sale locally for
>>> $21/sheet (5' squares of 1/2".)
>>
>> I haven't bought any in a while so I forgot how much it used to cost,
>> but when I bought a sheet yesterday at Fine Lumber here in Austin I
>> thought the $22 price wasn't too bad. They've got tons of it in
>> stock, so any fellow Austin-ites might want to consider stocking up.
>
>I hate you all. Around here the cheapest I can find it is 60 bucks a sheet.
We're talkin' 5' x 5' x 1/2" utility. What are you talking about,
4' x 8' x 3/4" cabinet grade?
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 11/03/2009 03:13 PM, SBH wrote:
>
>> Also, I plan to dado the secured shelf and divider but is it better to
>> dado
>> the face boards, biscuit (which I don't have), nail into place or
>> something
>> else?
>
> MDF is heavy, smooth, flat, and not particularly strong. It splits
> easily when going into the edge. You might consider using plywood
> instead.
I thought about using plywood, but I am always concerned about the knots
somewhat displaying through even after painting. Though, I'm painting a dark
brown, I suppose I could reconsider.
>
> You don't gain much strength dadoing MDF. I'd probably just butt join
> it with glue and then reinforce with screws from the outside. Always
> predrill and countersink MDF when screwing, and don't overtighten.
> Lo-root screws work well, confirmat screws are best but relatively
> expensive.
>
> Since you're painting the face frame, I'd recommend glue and small nails
> for fastening the face frame to the MDF cabinet. An air nailer works
> well if you've got one, don't use anything bigger than 18-gauge nails or
> the mdf will tend to split. The nails are there to hold it until the
> glue dries, so you don't need a lot.
>
> Lastly, you don't give much detail about your design but if you have any
> shelves which span the full 4', you'll probably want to use plywood or
> solid wood for them. MDF will almost certainly sag. You'll also want
> to use a lip on the front. A poplar 1x2 glued to the front edge of the
> shelf (so the 2" dimension is vertical) will go a long way to combat
> sagging.
>
> Chris
Thanks for the tips, would everything still apply if I use plywood instead
of MDF?
On 11/03/2009 04:41 PM, SBH wrote:
> I thought about using plywood, but I am always concerned about the knots
> somewhat displaying through even after painting. Though, I'm painting a dark
> brown, I suppose I could reconsider.
Decent hardwood ply shouldn't have knots...they should be patched/filled
at least. A good primer should cover any colour variation in the plywood.
> Thanks for the tips, would everything still apply if I use plywood instead
> of MDF?
Plywood is lighter, stronger, less likely to split, and takes screws
better. It's more likely to warp slightly with humidity changes, but
this usually isn't an issue for furniture. If you use plywood, there
would be some benefit to dadoing the fixed shelf. I'd still glue/screw.
It'll sag less over a long shelf span, but I'd still add the lip for
reinforcement.
Chris
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 11/03/2009 04:41 PM, SBH wrote:
>
>> I thought about using plywood, but I am always concerned about the knots
>> somewhat displaying through even after painting. Though, I'm painting a
>> dark
>> brown, I suppose I could reconsider.
>
> Decent hardwood ply shouldn't have knots...they should be patched/filled
> at least. A good primer should cover any colour variation in the plywood.
>
>> Thanks for the tips, would everything still apply if I use plywood
>> instead
>> of MDF?
>
> Plywood is lighter, stronger, less likely to split, and takes screws
> better. It's more likely to warp slightly with humidity changes, but
> this usually isn't an issue for furniture. If you use plywood, there
> would be some benefit to dadoing the fixed shelf. I'd still glue/screw.
>
> It'll sag less over a long shelf span, but I'd still add the lip for
> reinforcement.
>
> Chris
>
I've decided on the plywood. When applying the face across the center
stationary shelf, do I center the face, use the top portion flushed with the
shelf or bottom with a lip at top?
On 11/05/2009 05:57 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
> Steve Turner wrote:
>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>> I stocked up on Baltic birch when it went on sale locally for
>>> $21/sheet (5' squares of 1/2".)
>>
>> I haven't bought any in a while so I forgot how much it used to cost,
>> but when I bought a sheet yesterday at Fine Lumber here in Austin I
>> thought the $22 price wasn't too bad. They've got tons of it in
>> stock, so any fellow Austin-ites might want to consider stocking up.
>
> I hate you all. Around here the cheapest I can find it is 60 bucks a sheet.
It's $50 for 1/2" here.
Chris
"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 11/05/2009 02:43 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 06:57:35 -0500, the infamous "J. Clarke"
>> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>>
>>> Steve Turner wrote:
>>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>> I stocked up on Baltic birch when it went on sale locally for
>>>>> $21/sheet (5' squares of 1/2".)
>>>>
>>>> I haven't bought any in a while so I forgot how much it used to cost,
>>>> but when I bought a sheet yesterday at Fine Lumber here in Austin I
>>>> thought the $22 price wasn't too bad. They've got tons of it in
>>>> stock, so any fellow Austin-ites might want to consider stocking up.
>>>
>>> I hate you all. Around here the cheapest I can find it is 60 bucks a
>>> sheet.
>>
>> We're talkin' 5' x 5' x 1/2" utility. What are you talking about,
>> 4' x 8' x 3/4" cabinet grade?
>
> That price isn't too surprising to me...around here at least there is
> only one grade of baltic birch. And as I said, one 5x5 sheet of 1/2"
> will set you back $50.
>
> Cabinet grade maple is $95.
>
Just returned from Lowes and the current price for Oak plywood is $55, Birch
ply is $44 and Blondewood ply is $42 all 3/4" x 4 x 8. MDF is $24 and
particleboard is $16..lol..which is sounding much better.
Chris Friesen wrote:
> On 11/04/2009 01:30 PM, SBH wrote:
>
>> I've decided on the plywood. When applying the face across the center
>> stationary shelf, do I center the face, use the top portion flushed with the
>> shelf or bottom with a lip at top?
>
> It's really up to you. I would consider the usual method to be with the
> top of the shelf flush and a bit of lip on the bottom.
Yeah, I'd think unless it is an express purpose to keep something small
from rolling off the edge one would find a raised lip on the upper side
a real pita after a while (like the first time went to take something
off :) ). Certainly for a bookshelf or something on that order.
--
Larry Jaques wrote:
> I stocked up on Baltic birch when it went on sale locally for
> $21/sheet (5' squares of 1/2".)
I haven't bought any in a while so I forgot how much it used to cost,
but when I bought a sheet yesterday at Fine Lumber here in Austin I
thought the $22 price wasn't too bad. They've got tons of it in stock,
so any fellow Austin-ites might want to consider stocking up.
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bbqboyee/
Steve Turner wrote:
> Larry Jaques wrote:
>> I stocked up on Baltic birch when it went on sale locally for
>> $21/sheet (5' squares of 1/2".)
>
> I haven't bought any in a while so I forgot how much it used to cost,
> but when I bought a sheet yesterday at Fine Lumber here in Austin I
> thought the $22 price wasn't too bad. They've got tons of it in
> stock, so any fellow Austin-ites might want to consider stocking up.
I hate you all. Around here the cheapest I can find it is 60 bucks a sheet.
On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:41:54 -0500, the infamous "SBH" <[email protected]>
scrawled the following:
>
>"Chris Friesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On 11/03/2009 03:13 PM, SBH wrote:
>>
>>> Also, I plan to dado the secured shelf and divider but is it better to
>>> dado
>>> the face boards, biscuit (which I don't have), nail into place or
>>> something
>>> else?
>>
>> MDF is heavy, smooth, flat, and not particularly strong. It splits
>> easily when going into the edge. You might consider using plywood
>> instead.
>
>I thought about using plywood, but I am always concerned about the knots
>somewhat displaying through even after painting. Though, I'm painting a dark
>brown, I suppose I could reconsider.
Yeah, those CDX blows just don't display well at all, do they?
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
On 11/05/2009 02:43 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 06:57:35 -0500, the infamous "J. Clarke"
> <[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>> Steve Turner wrote:
>>> Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>> I stocked up on Baltic birch when it went on sale locally for
>>>> $21/sheet (5' squares of 1/2".)
>>>
>>> I haven't bought any in a while so I forgot how much it used to cost,
>>> but when I bought a sheet yesterday at Fine Lumber here in Austin I
>>> thought the $22 price wasn't too bad. They've got tons of it in
>>> stock, so any fellow Austin-ites might want to consider stocking up.
>>
>> I hate you all. Around here the cheapest I can find it is 60 bucks a sheet.
>
> We're talkin' 5' x 5' x 1/2" utility. What are you talking about,
> 4' x 8' x 3/4" cabinet grade?
That price isn't too surprising to me...around here at least there is
only one grade of baltic birch. And as I said, one 5x5 sheet of 1/2"
will set you back $50.
Cabinet grade maple is $95.
Chris
On 11/03/2009 03:13 PM, SBH wrote:
> Also, I plan to dado the secured shelf and divider but is it better to dado
> the face boards, biscuit (which I don't have), nail into place or something
> else?
MDF is heavy, smooth, flat, and not particularly strong. It splits
easily when going into the edge. You might consider using plywood instead.
You don't gain much strength dadoing MDF. I'd probably just butt join
it with glue and then reinforce with screws from the outside. Always
predrill and countersink MDF when screwing, and don't overtighten.
Lo-root screws work well, confirmat screws are best but relatively
expensive.
Since you're painting the face frame, I'd recommend glue and small nails
for fastening the face frame to the MDF cabinet. An air nailer works
well if you've got one, don't use anything bigger than 18-gauge nails or
the mdf will tend to split. The nails are there to hold it until the
glue dries, so you don't need a lot.
Lastly, you don't give much detail about your design but if you have any
shelves which span the full 4', you'll probably want to use plywood or
solid wood for them. MDF will almost certainly sag. You'll also want
to use a lip on the front. A poplar 1x2 glued to the front edge of the
shelf (so the 2" dimension is vertical) will go a long way to combat
sagging.
Chris
On Wed, 04 Nov 2009 10:36:30 -0600, the infamous Chris Friesen
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On 11/04/2009 07:37 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Tue, 3 Nov 2009 17:41:54 -0500, the infamous "SBH" <[email protected]>
>> scrawled the following:
>
>>> I thought about using plywood, but I am always concerned about the knots
>>> somewhat displaying through even after painting. Though, I'm painting a dark
>>> brown, I suppose I could reconsider.
>>
>> Yeah, those CDX blows just don't display well at all, do they?
>
>I sympathize with the original poster.
>
>Around here "made in North America" maple A1 ply is about $95/sheet.
>"Made in China" shop birch is currently on sale at $40/sheet. MDF is
>$23/sheet, PB is even less.
I stocked up on Baltic birch when it went on sale locally for
$21/sheet (5' squares of 1/2".) 1/4 of one went for a sled and the
rest will become drawers (unfinished) some day in the far future.
<sigh> Hmm, I'll have about 4 hours tomorrow morning before the rains
hit. I should continue taking crap out of my shop and putting it in
the pump house. I'll get out the kukri and hack a trail through that
shop _yet_, by golly! Hey, before I do that, is there any contest on
for the messiest shop? I'll win a new tablesaur!
>If money is tight, MDF or PB can be appealing.
And when -isn't- money tight?
--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson