For some reason, this morning I was reminded of some of the people
who've asked for stronger wood glue.
According to what I've read, the wood glue made today, any brand,
is stronger than the wood. You don't actually need "stronger" glue. If
you don't believe it, take a couple of scrap chunks of 2X4, glue them
edge to edge with the wood glue of your choie, clamp 'em, let 'em sit
for a couple of days, and try to get them apart.
The first router table I made wasn't doing what I wanted, so
decided to recycle the wood, and make a new one. I recyclesd it - after
awhile. I had to beat it apart with my baby sledge hammer - a regular
sledge hammer with a handle cut down to about 12". It wasn't a matter
of a couple of light taps and it fell apart. It was more a matter of a
bunch of full strength blows, and then it either split the pieces along
the middle, or the food failed along the glue lines. It was the wood
that failed, not the glue. The glue was Titebond II.
I glued some pieces up at about 55F once. Then for whatever
reason, decided that wasn't what I wanted. Used a chisel at the glue
line and a couple of taps with a mallet popped it on the glue line neat
as can be. That time it was the glue the failed. But the reason for
that was it was too cold when I glued it up.
I've tried the chisel at the glue line on "good" glue joints too.
It usually pops the pieces apart at the glue line too - however, even
thos it does part at the glue line, it is the wood that gives, not the
glue, it pulls small chunks out of one of the pieces. Don't believe it,
try it.
I did have a piece I needed to take apart, without destroying it.
I figured out I could saw it apart, eventually. Would have taken quite
awhile tho, and I would have had to really pay a lot of attention to do
a good job. So, called the 1-800 number on the bottle. The glue was
Titebond II, as always. The tech guy told me head would do it. So,
used hair blower on the joint, on high. Probably took me 10-15 minutes
of steady work and twisting and turning before it came loose and a
couple more minutes before it actually parted ways. The section was
only about 6" long, but about 2" thick, so there was a pretty fair sized
glue joint.
As I understand it the strength of any of the glues is stronger
than the wood. The set-up time can vary, as the losest temperature the
glue should b used at. I happen to like Titebond II so I stick with it.
It does everything I need a woodworking glue to do and I figure on
keeping using it.
So if you're worried about what glue to use, I'd suggest buying the
smallest bottles of whatever glues you're interested in and testing
them.
I din't have anything better to do while I drank my cuppa tea
before I go to town and check the mail. Got a neat book in t he mail
yesterday, and expecting another today. Life is basically good.
JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small
On 14 Feb, 16:39, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> I've tried the chisel at the glue line on "good" glue joints too.
> It usually pops the pieces apart at the glue line too - however, even
> thos it does part at the glue line, it is the wood that gives, not the
> glue, it pulls small chunks out of one of the pieces.
There's a reason for why a joint tends to fail at the glue line, and
it applies whether the glue or the wood is the strongest. It's the
discontinuity of properties that causes the weakness, not the absolute
strength of either. Particularly if one material is stiffer (not
stronger) than the other.
Wood and wood glue are both weak. A localised force applied to them
will easily break either -- they're only strong when used in large
sections and any sort of prybar (or chisel, you heathen!) is "small"
in comparison. The discontinuity merely acts to localise the force
applied and that's enough to break it.
Wed, Feb 14, 2007, 9:19am (EST-3) [email protected]
(Andy=A0Dingley) doth sayeth:
<snip> any sort of prybar (or chisel, you heathen!) <snip>
When the Woodworking Gods heard what you called me they laughed.
What does THAT mean?
JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small
On Feb 14, 10:39 am, [email protected] (J T) wrote:
> For some reason, this morning I was reminded of some of the people
> who've asked for stronger wood glue.
My good man,
The people of this group are well aware that a properly made glue
joint is stronger than the surrounding material so you have gained
little with your post.
I learned this fact in high school shop class when we performed a
similar demostration where you glue up jointed material and then take
a chisel to it. It's a classic that probably every beginning
woodworking class does.
Now a glue that will last longer that's another question. Most of the
wood glues we use will not adhere forever and most any glue joint
will fail eventually unless the piece is very carefully stored.
Stronger glues are available but have drawbacks. Fifty years is good
service for a glue joint in my mind however. By the time it fails
it's someones else problem, haha.
One theory is that you don't wan't a permanent joint that will never
come apart. That takes into consideration future generations of
crafsmen who will be asked to repair the object.
Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to
perform repairs that are reversable and that is the highest standard
for valuable pieces like antiques. Regular wood glue can be coaxed
into failure if necessary for the purposes of the crafsman. Epoxies
and the like cannot. I like my epoxy but regular wood glue is a
better all around adhesive for woodworking.
On 15 Feb, 17:27, Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote:
> It's not just for antiques.
I only ever make antiques or workshop cupboards. It's just not worth
making anything _unless_ you're hoping it will survive to be a valued
antique and so you put the effort into it. For aanything else, there's
Ikea. They do it quicker, cheaper and even sometimes better than an
individual can.
Thu, Feb 15, 2007, 10:03am (EST-3) [email protected]
(Andy=A0Dingley) doth sayeth:
I only ever make antiques or workshop cupboards. It's just not worth
making anything _unless_ you're hoping it will survive to be a valued
antique and so you put the effort into it.<snip>
I'd never thought of it that way, but I'd say I do the same. I
don't think I've made anything that could be damaged by accident, you'd
pretty much have to work at it to hurt them. So I figure most of it
will still be around, not needing repairs, for hundreds of years from
now, unless someon decides they're too ugly to save. Actually the only
thing I've made that I think might qualify for being that ugly is the
rocking chair I made about 10 years ago. But the design looks like it
could be made knock-down pretty easily, so I may eventually wind up
making another. With my luck, this one will probably wind up in a
museum after I die and the description of it will say I was an
"artiste". Urgh.
JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small
J T wrote:
> 7) Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to=
> perform repairs that are reversable and that is the highest standard =
for
> valuable pieces like antiques. <snip>
> 7) We weren' talking antiques.=A0=A0Anyway,=A0for=A0antiques=A0I'd=A0=
go=A0to=A0an
> accredited antique restorer.
It's not just for antiques. Surely you've made something for your chik=
dren or
grandchildren with the hope (by them or you) that it will be passed on =
to
future generations. A cradle, a crib, a dresser, etc.. If so, it will=
eventually need repair. It's nice to be able to replace a component wi=
thout
wrecking the joints.
--=20
It's turtles, all the way down
Thu, Feb 15, 2007, 9:27am (EST-3) [email protected]
(Larry=A0Blanchard) doth sayeth:
It's not just for antiques. Surely you've made something for your
chikdren or grandchildren with the hope (by them or you) that it will be
passed on to future generations. A cradle, a crib, a dresser, etc.. If
so, it will eventually need repair. It's nice to be able to replace a
component without wrecking the joints.
If it's not an antique, and it can't be repaired with a chainsaw,
hammer, and nails, burn it and start over..
Thought you knew my views on cradles. Make a rocking chair
instead. Then get the kid asleep, lay him/her on the floor, or any
place they can't roll off of, then relax in the chair. Unless you
believe in barefoot and pregnant you're gonna get a lot more use out of
a rocking chair than you will out of a cradle.
JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small
"J T" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It also showed how toilet paper is made, perhaps the single most
> important thing in the galaxy. They use glue to make the cardboard
> rolls, and to glue the end down.
> JOAT
And to think I had you pegged as a corn cob (cheap) kinda guy...will wonders
ever cease<G>?...Rod
Fri, Feb 16, 2007, 2:20pm (EST-3) [email protected]
(Rod=A0&=A0Betty=A0Jo) doth proclaimeth:
And to think I had you pegged as a corn cob (cheap) kinda guy...will
wonders ever cease<G>?...Rod
Hah, not since I got civilizzed. I've got a total of something
over150 rolls on hand as I type - got another colonoscopy coming up on 6
Mar, and I want to be sure I'don't run out.
JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small
Wed, Feb 14, 2007, 9:29am (EST-3) [email protected] (lwhaley) doth
blather:
1) My good man,
2) The people of this group are well aware that a properly made glue
joint is stronger than the surrounding material so you have gained
little with your post. =A0<snip>
3) It's a classic that probably every beginning woodworking class does.
4) Now a glue that will last longer that's another question. <snip>
5) Fifty years is good service for a glue joint in my mind however.
<snip>
6) One theory is that you don't wan't a permanent joint that will never
come apart. <snip>
7) Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to
perform repairs that are reversable and that is the highest standard for
valuable pieces like antiques. <snip>
8) I like my epoxy but regular wood glue is a better all around adhesive
for woodworking.
Responses keyed to numbers.
1) Watch your laguage, this is a family group.
2) Boy, sure can tell you haven't been here long.
3) My first woodworking class was i the 4th grade and we were never sown
anything like that.
4) I was't aware that they'd discovered how lng a glue will last. Some
of the Egyptian stuff is still holding together, how long bre they can
expect it to fall apart?
5) No it's not. I've got a small solid cherry bookcase I made going on
about 53 years ago, and it's still as solid as the day it was finished.
6) I was brought up with the theory that if ou didn't want a permanent
joint you usd screws.
7) We weren' talking antiques. Anyway, for antiques I'd go to an
accredited antique restorer.
8) You don't suppose that's why they call it wood glue, do you?
Here's the door to the archives.
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search?as_ugroup=3Drec.woodworking=
&lr=3D&num=3D30
JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small
Interesting. I just watched an episode of How It's Made. Among
several, they showed making violins. The only fastener used is glue,
and they expect it to last a long time.
It also showed how toilet paper is made, perhaps the single most
important thing in the galaxy. They use glue to make the cardboard
rolls, and to glue the end down.
JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small
Rod & Betty Jo wrote:
>
> And to think I had you pegged as a corn cob (cheap) kinda guy...will
wonders
> ever cease<G>?
Which begs the question:
Why are there both red and white corn cobs found in an outhouse?
Answer:
First you use a red one,
Then you use a white one,
To see if you need to use another red one.
(A little Chic Sales humor there)
Lew
Sat, Feb 17, 2007, 12:53am (EST+5) [email protected]
(Lew=A0Hodgett) doth query:
Which begs the question:
Why are there both red and white corn cobs found in an outhouse? <snip>
Can't say I recall actually using corn, but possible. I do recall
using Monkey Ward catalog pages, and newspaper. I'll take newspaper
over the catalogs, less sharp edges. I also rember my first tour in
Germany in '62, and the crude toilet paper with splinters in it. .
JOAT
When in doubt, go to sleep.
- Mully Small
for antiques I'd go to an
accredited antique restorer.
I do not know what is an accredited antique restorer. Could you please
point me in the proper direction to learn about them.
TIA
"Larry Blanchard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
J T wrote:
> 7) Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to
> perform repairs that are reversable and that is the highest standard for
> valuable pieces like antiques. <snip>
> 7) We weren' talking antiques. Anyway, for antiques I'd go to an
> accredited antique restorer.
It's not just for antiques. Surely you've made something for your chikdren
or
grandchildren with the hope (by them or you) that it will be passed on to
future generations. A cradle, a crib, a dresser, etc.. If so, it will
eventually need repair. It's nice to be able to replace a component without
wrecking the joints.
--
It's turtles, all the way down
On 14 Feb, 17:29, "lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to
> perform repairs that are reversable
Strength doesn't necessarily imply irreversibility (and thus
reversibility doesn't require the joint to be weak). If you can
dismantle the joint chemically (by solvents or hot steam) such that
you don't need to lever it apart, then you can have it as strong as
you like in the meantime.
On Feb 15, 10:18 am, "Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 14 Feb, 17:29, "lwhaley" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Work with furniture repair has taught me that it is always best to
> > perform repairs that are reversable
>
> Strength doesn't necessarily imply irreversibility (and thus
> reversibility doesn't require the joint to be weak). If you can
> dismantle the joint chemically (by solvents or hot steam) such that
> you don't need to lever it apart, then you can have it as strong as
> you like in the meantime.
We are in agreement and didn't mean to imply that reversable repairs
are weak. They can be stronger than the surrounding wood. I just
meant to say that they can be desirable compared to less reversable
repairs like epoxy but you have explaned it well.
Epoxy is, however, difficult to repair, that's the downside. I never
try to coax apart any epoxy. I use a syringe with a solvent,
starting with warm water, that I inject in to stubborn joints that are
glued normally.
In a well constructed piece the joint does most of the work and will
out last the glue by far. Many older pieces no longer have good glue
but the quality of the joints will hold it together. Even a well
constructed dowel joint can last a long time.
Where I live up north we have an extreme of temperature and humidity
that is hard on furnitrue and I see a lot of failed glue joints even
on relatively new chairs.