Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation. I'm toying
with the ideas of building a small, 8 ft high insulated "room" in one
corner of the quonset or perhaps erecting a temporary canvas/poly
enclosure (think temporary vehicle shelters with piping frame).
Winter here means periods of -40, dry. The quonset is all-metal,
corrugated, 40 ft x 60 ft x 20 ft max height with enclosed ends.
--
Monroe
>Subject: Quonset Work
>From: Monroe [email protected]
>Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
>in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation.
I'd guess you wouldn't want to get this
elaborate, but what about that spray
foam insulation that used to be applied
to walls and ceilings? Don't know if
it's used anymore. I'v heard that a
quonset hut is very efficient to heat
if well insulated.
Heatable space within the unheatable sounds good. I think I'd avoid the
temptation to use expanded foam for my igloo, though. Flame can do some
nasty things quick. Shiny side in fiberglass in a wood frame with a face
of thin sheetrock or tempered board would do. Don't believe I'd worry about
wind intrusion, so the back could go au natural until a reason was found for
covering. Ceiling should have more than the walls, if you've got the
insulation.
Bet you could heat a 20x20 constructed that way for "pennies a day."
"Monroe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
> in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation. I'm toying
> with the ideas of building a small, 8 ft high insulated "room" in one
> corner of the quonset or perhaps erecting a temporary canvas/poly
> enclosure (think temporary vehicle shelters with piping frame).
>
> Winter here means periods of -40, dry. The quonset is all-metal,
> corrugated, 40 ft x 60 ft x 20 ft max height with enclosed ends.
> --
>
> Monroe
Though I'm sure they've changed it, the stuff I'm familiar with got a lot of
its oomph from vermiculite - see the talc/asbestos dissertations referenced
above. Not to mention you can _always_ heat a smaller space for less than a
larger.
"BUB 209" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Subject: Quonset Work
> >From: Monroe [email protected]
>
> >Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
> >in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation.
>
> I'd guess you wouldn't want to get this
> elaborate, but what about that spray
> foam insulation that used to be applied
> to walls and ceilings? Don't know if
> it's used anymore. I'v heard that a
> quonset hut is very efficient to heat
> if well insulated.
>Subject: Re: Quonset Work
>From: "George" george@least
>Though I'm sure they've changed it, the stuff I'm familiar with got a lot of
>its oomph from vermiculite - see the talc/asbestos dissertations referenced
Wow, I didn't know that stuff contained
asbestos. About 15 years ago I had to
use it on a job in a factory to fill a 25
foot high cinderblock wall. If it contains
talc, that would explain the "slippery"
quality that resulted in the following
phenomenon: We drilled a few 1" holes
in the cinderblock lower down on the
wall, and the stuff began to leak out
of the holes, prodigiously. There was
an updraft in the building, so it was
actually pouring "up" out of the holes,
while we were running around frantically
looking for garbage bags to contain it -
I think we filled about 10. Sorry to
ramble on. For me, it's "Hey-that reminds
me of" day, I guess.
"Monroe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > As to the foam, in the oilpatch where I work foam is not used much
> because of the safety factor of flammability.
Get the facts. It is safe. Insulation is required to be modified material
that will not burn on its own.
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 02:51:24 GMT, Monroe <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>The sectional panel idea is sounding better. Knock down is preferred.
>As to the foam, in the oilpatch where I work foam is not used much
>because of the safety factor of flammability. I was interested in
>comments from others who have tried the temporary structure route.
Huh... I'll have to dig a little bit. AFAIK (and that ain't very far)
those stryofoam panels, with relfective backing, at the borg aren't
flammable.
"George" <george@least> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Heatable space within the unheatable sounds good. I think I'd avoid the
> temptation to use expanded foam for my igloo, though. Flame can do some
> nasty things quick.
Expanded polystyrene foam insulation is modified so as not to burn if the
source of ignition is removed. It will just put itself out. It is less
flammable that many forms of paneling or other wall coverings. When it
burns, the products of combustion are soot, water, and carbon dioxide, same
as a wood fire.
Building codes do call for it to have a layer of sheetrock though.
"patrick conroy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Huh... I'll have to dig a little bit. AFAIK (and that ain't very far)
> those stryofoam panels, with relfective backing, at the borg aren't
> flammable.
Correct. They must meet fire codes and they are checked by third party
inspection. They may burn if a source of ignition is present, but will stop
when it is taken away.
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:51:58 GMT, Monroe <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>
>Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
>in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation. I'm toying
>with the ideas of building a small, 8 ft high insulated "room" in one
>corner of the quonset or perhaps erecting a temporary canvas/poly
>enclosure (think temporary vehicle shelters with piping frame).
Canvas and poly don't have much of an R-value, I think. I'd probably
try to dream up a way to make 4x8'ish panels out of rigid foam panels.
Pretty cheap at the BORG.
How much would it be to spray on some foam insulation inside the hut?
>
>Winter here means periods of -40, dry. The quonset is all-metal,
>corrugated, 40 ft x 60 ft x 20 ft max height with enclosed ends.
Where's "here"?
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:51:58 GMT, Monroe <[email protected]>
calmly ranted:
>Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
I had my 2-car shop converted to forced air when the HVAC guy
came out to install the new heater/cooler. And 8" duct keeps it
within 10 degrees of the house with the door closed. I drilled
a couple dozen 2" holes through the door and keep a furnace filter
over the opening to equalize the pressure (and keep dust out of
the house) when the heater kicks in. For finishing, I open the side
door to ventilate while the solvent in the finish evaporates, then
close up to regain the heat and dry properly.
>in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation. I'm toying
>with the ideas of building a small, 8 ft high insulated "room" in one
>corner of the quonset or perhaps erecting a temporary canvas/poly
>enclosure (think temporary vehicle shelters with piping frame).
How about using 1" or 2" expanded foam panels glued to the
canvas shell for better/longer heat retension? Or build a
knockdown style frame with built-in panels of 1/4" OSB and
foamboard? Use it as a spray booth in the summer, shelter in
the winter. Consider spraying foam insulation on the inside
of the quonset if you're adventurous and deep-pocketed.
>Winter here means periods of -40, dry. The quonset is all-metal,
>corrugated, 40 ft x 60 ft x 20 ft max height with enclosed ends.
That's cold! Our winters in So. OR get down to +20F (so far, but
this is only my 3rd winter here.)
==============================================================
Like peace and quiet? Buy a phoneless cord.
http://www/diversify.com/stees.html Hilarious T-shirts online
==============================================================
On 20 Oct 2004 14:38:35 -0700, [email protected] (Bill Wallace) calmly
ranted:
>-40!!! Move.
Monroe must be counting on the Global Warming to make it
a nice and toasty 72°F next year. ;)
--
From time to time, we have been tempted to believe that society has
become too complex to be managed by self-rule, that government by
an elite group is superior to government for, by, and of the people.
But if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who
among us has the capacity to govern someone else?
All of us together, in and out of government, must bear the
burden. The solutions we seek must be equitable, with no one
group singled out to pay a higher price.
-President Ronald Reagan
First Inaugural Address
Tuesday, January 20, 1981
-40!!! Move.
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Monroe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
> > in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation. I'm toying
> > with the ideas of building a small, 8 ft high insulated "room" in one
> > corner of the quonset or perhaps erecting a temporary canvas/poly
> > enclosure (think temporary vehicle shelters with piping frame).
> >
> > Winter here means periods of -40, dry. The quonset is all-metal,
> > corrugated, 40 ft x 60 ft x 20 ft max height with enclosed ends.
> > --
> >
> > Monroe
>
>
> Does not answer your question, but I found this interesting.
> http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1278.htm
> http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq75-1.htm
>
>
> I'd partition off a section as you describe. I'd make it out of panels of
> insulating foam. Light and easy to move, you can change the design easily
> if you desire.
"Monroe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
> in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation. I'm toying
> with the ideas of building a small, 8 ft high insulated "room" in one
> corner of the quonset or perhaps erecting a temporary canvas/poly
> enclosure (think temporary vehicle shelters with piping frame).
>
> Winter here means periods of -40, dry. The quonset is all-metal,
> corrugated, 40 ft x 60 ft x 20 ft max height with enclosed ends.
> --
>
> Monroe
Does not answer your question, but I found this interesting.
http://www.uh.edu/engines/epi1278.htm
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq75-1.htm
I'd partition off a section as you describe. I'd make it out of panels of
insulating foam. Light and easy to move, you can change the design easily
if you desire.
Ah, my err. Wrong term/explanation there. Not the issue of
flammability of the product, rather the potential for ignition of
fugitive volatile emissions (and acute releases) from static
discharges associated with the product.
But for my application, these panels then do not contribute to
combustion w/o maintenance of a soure of ignition? This sounds
reasonable for use as insulation for paneling in a knock-down system.
Time to check out local building codes for even a temporary structure.
Thanks
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 04:08:34 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>
>"Monroe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> > As to the foam, in the oilpatch where I work foam is not used much
>> because of the safety factor of flammability.
>
>Get the facts. It is safe. Insulation is required to be modified material
>that will not burn on its own.
>
--
Monroe
Minburn County, Alberta. Parkland on the west edge of the Canadian
prairie (Christ, almost sounds lyrical!). Plenty of wind, and in
winter, cold wind. Cold is more of an issue than snow.
The sectional panel idea is sounding better. Knock down is preferred.
As to the foam, in the oilpatch where I work foam is not used much
because of the safety factor of flammability. I was interested in
comments from others who have tried the temporary structure route.
Blown insulation is an expensive idle thought for this cat.
Thanks
On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:04:13 GMT, patrick conroy
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 02:51:58 GMT, Monroe <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Interested in methods that others are using for working during winters
>>in metal quonsets that don't have permanent insulation. I'm toying
>>with the ideas of building a small, 8 ft high insulated "room" in one
>>corner of the quonset or perhaps erecting a temporary canvas/poly
>>enclosure (think temporary vehicle shelters with piping frame).
>
>Canvas and poly don't have much of an R-value, I think. I'd probably
>try to dream up a way to make 4x8'ish panels out of rigid foam panels.
>Pretty cheap at the BORG.
>
>How much would it be to spray on some foam insulation inside the hut?
>
>
>>
>>Winter here means periods of -40, dry. The quonset is all-metal,
>>corrugated, 40 ft x 60 ft x 20 ft max height with enclosed ends.
>
>Where's "here"?
>
--
Monroe
"Monroe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ah, my err. Wrong term/explanation there. Not the issue of
> flammability of the product, rather the potential for ignition of
> fugitive volatile emissions (and acute releases) from static
> discharges associated with the product.
Huh? Never heard of a problem with static discharge.
>
> But for my application, these panels then do not contribute to
> combustion w/o maintenance of a soure of ignition? This sounds
> reasonable for use as insulation for paneling in a knock-down system.
> Time to check out local building codes for even a temporary structure.
>
> Thanks
http://www.huntsman.com/polymers/Media/EPS7-7.3.pdf
FLAMMABILITY
Both the expandable polystyrene and expanded polystyrene products must be
considered
combustible when directly exposed to fire of sufficient intensity and heat.
Therefore, neither
should be stored nor installed near open flame or ignition sources.
The modified grades of expandable polystyrene contain flame-retardants
designed to
decrease flammability due to accidental ignition from a small flame source.
The expanded
polystyrene manufactured from these products have been tested in numerous
small scale
fire tests and meet the requirements of the nation's building codes and
applicable industrial,
federal, and state requirements.
THE RESULTS OF THESE TESTS ARE NOT INTENDED TO REFLECT HAZARDS
UNDER ACTUAL FIRE CONDITIONS.
Flammability Characteristics
Recommended Maximum Use Temperature: 165ºF (75ºC)
Melting Point: As a thermoplastic, polystyrene does not exhibit a true
melting point. It will
begin to soften at about 212ºF (100ºC) and, as more heat is applied, melting
occurs.
Flash Ignition Temperature*: The lowest initial
temperature of air passing around a molded sample
of EPS at which a sufficient amount of combustible gas
is evolved to be ignited (ASTM D 1929). 698ºF (370ºC)
Self Ignition Temperature*: The lowest initial temperature of
air passing around the specimen at which, in the absence
of an ignition source, the self-heating properties of the EPS lead
to ignition or ignition occurs of itself. (ASTM D1929) 752ºF (400ºC)
Potential Heat of Building Materials ** A property-type
measurement of the heat that could be potentially released 17,293 BTU