Hn

Han

15/05/2012 5:08 PM

OT: German police fired 85 bullets in 2011

Der Spiegel (The Mirror) is a fairly influential German newspaper, and it
reported here the number of cartridges fired by German police in 2011:
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/polizei-schoss-2011-seltener-im-
dienst-a-832037.html
http://preview.tinyurl.com/7kf3vpy
The original url translates to (among others) "police shot 2011 fewer
times on duty". The summary said:
<quote>
Polizisten schießen seltener im Dienst

Die Nutzung von Schusswaffen im Dienst ist bei der Polizei in Deutschland
leicht zurückgegangen: Im vergangenen Jahr schossen Beamte 36-mal auf
Personen. Sechs Menschen starben, 15 wurden verletzt.
</quote><translation of sorts>
Officers shoot fewr times on duty

The use of firearms on duty by police in Germany was a bit reduced: In
the last year Officers shot 36 times on people. Six people died, 15 were
injured.
</translation>

Germany has a bit over 80 million people. Seems to me that either the
police in Germany has little to do with violent crime, or they stay in
their preceinct offices and don't venture out.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid


This topic has 35 replies

MM

"Mike Marlow"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 3:35 PM

Clay wrote:

>
>
> That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
> suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )

As is the case pretty much around the nation. Yet - the advocates would
have you believe that you are safer with an LEO who is armed than being
armed yourself. Just as long as every shot is fired within that 7 yard
distance they train at, and there are enough of them to throw enough lead...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

Ll

Leon

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 3:55 PM

On 5/15/2012 3:14 PM, Han wrote:
> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Clay wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
>>> suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )
>>
>> As is the case pretty much around the nation. Yet - the advocates
>> would have you believe that you are safer with an LEO who is armed
>> than being armed yourself. Just as long as every shot is fired within
>> that 7 yard distance they train at, and there are enough of them to
>> throw enough lead...
>
> Do I really have to spell it out? Somehow it at least /seems/ that
> German society is a lot safer than many US places (these days).
> Question is what makes it so??
>
>
> Of course, one shouldn't generalize etc, etc.
>



Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.

Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the problem.

Rr

RonB

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

17/05/2012 5:25 AM

On May 17, 2:30=A0am, Bob Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> in 1528027 20120516 114640 Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> >>Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
> >>Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the probl=
em.
>
> >Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
> >this excess of trouble makers?
>
> http://begthequestion.info/

LH

"Lew Hodgett"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 10:13 AM

>> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that
>> produces
>> this excess of trouble makers?

"Leon" wrote:

>
> Liberals that want to blame the parents instead of the child. Lack
> of appropriate punishment for the crime. Kids being taught that
> every one is equal and entitled to the same things even if they
> don't work. Government breeding poverty by welfare programs that do
> not require certain people to work.
-------------------------------------
Talk about total bull shit.

Lew

Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

17/05/2012 7:45 AM

Han wrote:
>>
>> Greed. While greed is generally a good thing to have, there are
>> always those who want to subvert the system. They learn in Sunday
>> School there is no penalty for disobeying the Tenth Commandment.
>>
>> Their avarice is the price we must pay for the freedom to excel - or
>> fail.
>
> I'm still not quite sure that greed is good. Hunger to get stuff or
> knowledge, obtained without theft, yes that is good. Teaching others
> without usury, that's good too.

One ancient worthy said: "Without greed, no man would build a home, marry,
or raise a child." Another equally wise man once said: "Greed is a natural
human emotion given to us by God and God doesn't make junk!" (except for the
gall bladder)

It's not greed (or hate or anything else) that's bad, it's what you DO with
the inclination. You don't handle a bowling ball the same way you handle a
box of dynamite; likewise you treat hate differently than love and greed
more cautiously than charity.

Consider Albert Sabin peering into his microscope. He was motivated, no
doubt, by many altruistic urges. Still, to a large or small degree he
undoubtedly was motivated by some emotions that others would consider
unacceptable. He may have had enough pride to think "If I can whip this,
people will shout my name and think I'm a swell fellow." He may have
thought: "A solution will earn me enough money to research the things I want
without having to suck up to the bureaucrats." Maybe he even considered:
"I'll beat that goddamn Jonas Salk like a drum."

Whatever.

As a result of his thinking - good and bad - Polio has been eradicated,
world-wide*, during my lifetime and yours.

---
* Except for small pockets of Muslim-dominated areas in India and Somalia
where the oral polio vaccine is considered an attempt by Western powers to
sterilize female children.

Du

Dave

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 6:46 AM

On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the problem.

Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
this excess of trouble makers?

Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

21/05/2012 5:37 PM

I'll follow your disconnected example by top-posting.

In my story, I used Albert Sabin as an exemplar, not Jonas Salk. Sure, there
were problems with Salk's, live virus, formulation, but NOT with Sabin's
oral, dead-virus, vaccine.

As for off-topic, one example does not make a rule, but one example to the
contrary disproves the "rule." In this case, it was alleged that greed is
bad. I was merely putting up a case where greed led to a good result.

m II wrote:
> Very bad choice of BS to change the topic and force your views into
> the conversation.
>
> In 1977, even Jonas Salk admitted that mass inoculations caused most
> polio cases since 1961.
>
> The Salk vaccine proved highly dangerous. Information about it was
> suppressed, and declines in the disease were well underway when
> mass-immunizations were begun. In Europe, they occurred in countries
> that used, then rejected the vaccine proving it was never needed in
> the first place. Showing also that the same is true for other
> diseases, including Swine Flu with the WHO and CDC admitting that
> most cases are mild, unthreatening, and generally pass without
> treatment, let alone risking dangerous unneeded vaccines.
>
> ----------
> "HeyBub" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
> Consider Albert Sabin peering into his microscope. He was motivated,
> no doubt, by many altruistic urges. Still, to a large or small degree
> he undoubtedly was motivated by some emotions that others would
> consider unacceptable. He may have had enough pride to think "If I
> can whip this,
> people will shout my name and think I'm a swell fellow." He may have
> thought: "A solution will earn me enough money to research the things
> I want
> without having to suck up to the bureaucrats." Maybe he even
> considered:
> "I'll beat that goddamn Jonas Salk like a drum."
>
> Whatever.
>
> As a result of his thinking - good and bad - Polio has been
> eradicated, world-wide*, during my lifetime and yours.

Cn

"ChairMan"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 4:40 PM


"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 5/15/2012 3:14 PM, Han wrote:
>> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Clay wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
>>>> suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )
>>>
>>> As is the case pretty much around the nation. Yet - the advocates
>>> would have you believe that you are safer with an LEO who is armed
>>> than being armed yourself. Just as long as every shot is fired within
>>> that 7 yard distance they train at, and there are enough of them to
>>> throw enough lead...
>>
>> Do I really have to spell it out? Somehow it at least /seems/ that
>> German society is a lot safer than many US places (these days).
>> Question is what makes it so??
>>
>>
>> Of course, one shouldn't generalize etc, etc.
>>
>
>
>
> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>
> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the problem.

Can we start with the leftover katrina victims still in tejas?

Ll

Leon

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 4:43 PM

On 5/15/2012 4:40 PM, ChairMan wrote:
> "Leon"<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On 5/15/2012 3:14 PM, Han wrote:
>>> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> Clay wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
>>>>> suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )
>>>>
>>>> As is the case pretty much around the nation. Yet - the advocates
>>>> would have you believe that you are safer with an LEO who is armed
>>>> than being armed yourself. Just as long as every shot is fired within
>>>> that 7 yard distance they train at, and there are enough of them to
>>>> throw enough lead...
>>>
>>> Do I really have to spell it out? Somehow it at least /seems/ that
>>> German society is a lot safer than many US places (these days).
>>> Question is what makes it so??
>>>
>>>
>>> Of course, one shouldn't generalize etc, etc.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>>
>> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the problem.
>
> Can we start with the leftover katrina victims still in tejas?
>
>

No kidding! If they do well with that installment we can move on to to
other undesirables. ;~)

Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

19/05/2012 9:20 AM

Han wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:8YCdnQjwu_dkbynSnZ2dnUVZ_q- [email protected]:
>
> I'm not sure that the desire to accomplish good things constitutes
> greed.

Of course not.

But reverse the cause and effect.

If raw greed generates good things, well, there you are.

JG

"John Grossbohlin"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

17/05/2012 8:36 AM


"Bob Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> in 1528027 20120516 114640 Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>>>Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the
>>>problem.
>>
>>Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
>>this excess of trouble makers?
>
> http://begthequestion.info/

The obvious solution, given the US's mean lower age compared to Germany, is
to ship the young males off to war, have mandatory inscription into the
military for 2-3 years to keep them in a controlled environment, incarcerate
them until they mature, or otherwise remove sufficient numbers of young
males from the population to bring the mean age in line with Germany and
increase the ratio of females to males. ;~) It's just so obvious... though
perhaps not palatable. ;~)

Dig up a copy of Glenn Deane's early study...
http://www.springerlink.com/content/n375532r1rg58520/ One of many... he has
also done other interesting work on homicide and specific types of homicide,
e.g., lynching's, over the years. Gary Mauser, John Lott, Don Kates, Dave
Kopel and others have also done cross-national research...

John



Hn

Han

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 8:14 PM

"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Clay wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
>> suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )
>
> As is the case pretty much around the nation. Yet - the advocates
> would have you believe that you are safer with an LEO who is armed
> than being armed yourself. Just as long as every shot is fired within
> that 7 yard distance they train at, and there are enough of them to
> throw enough lead...

Do I really have to spell it out? Somehow it at least /seems/ that
German society is a lot safer than many US places (these days).
Question is what makes it so??


Of course, one shouldn't generalize etc, etc.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Hn

Han

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 2:08 PM

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 5/16/2012 5:46 AM, Dave wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>>> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the
>>> problem.
>>
>> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
>> this excess of trouble makers?
>
> Liberals that want to blame the parents instead of the child. Lack of
> appropriate punishment for the crime. Kids being taught that every
> one is equal and entitled to the same things even if they don't work.
> Government breeding poverty by welfare programs that do not require
> certain people to work.

This "liberal" would hope that some time soon every child may get the
same opportunities to excel, and that there will be parents, teachers,
friends and acquaintances who all will encourage each child to fully
exploit his/her potential. Then all can be rewarded as to their efforts,
be they plumber, carpenter, professor or president.

There is enough blame to go around in the current system of dumping
children onto the "system". Parents, teachers, politicians especially
can be assigned blame as you see fit ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Hn

Han

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 6:39 PM

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> I have go to say while it does not seem that every child in the US has
> an equal opportunity, a majority of them have a better opportunity than
> say 80% of the rest of the kids in the world.
>
> So I say give the kids "equal opportunity" but no special privileges for
> a particular race.

That may be true when comparing US kids to zimbabwean kids. Unfortunately,
the baseline from which US kids in a poor ghetto-like neighborhood/city
start out is different compared to what kids from rich suburban towns
experience (or can experience - there is a lot of neglect of varying sorts
there too). Our US school systems do fall down on the job unless kids
and/or parents and/or teachers exert special efforts, and too few anywhere
care.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Hn

Han

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 6:44 PM

Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 5/16/2012 12:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>>> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that
>>>> produces
>>>> this excess of trouble makers?
>>
>> "Leon" wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Liberals that want to blame the parents instead of the child. Lack
>>> of appropriate punishment for the crime. Kids being taught that
>>> every one is equal and entitled to the same things even if they
>>> don't work. Government breeding poverty by welfare programs that do
>>> not require certain people to work.
>> -------------------------------------
>> Talk about total bull shit.
>>
>> Lew
>>
>>
>
> How is that Kool-Aid tasting Lew?

Liberals (do/should) not blame the parents, at least not always.
Bringing up kids is not an easy task, for anyone. My better half did
most of the work, but I believe we have instilled work and other ethics
in our kids and grandkids. Everyone does start out equal, but due to
their own limitations or circumstances within or beyond their control,
they do not end up equal. While your perception of "welfare" may be
colored by your experiences, education and welfare and p[overty are
separate things. They do affect each other, of course.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Hn

Han

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 6:45 PM

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 5/16/2012 5:46 AM, Dave wrote:
>
>> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
>> this excess of trouble makers?
>
> Wretched excess ...

That's a bad quote from the plaque on the statue of liberty ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Hn

Han

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 9:42 PM

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Han wrote:
>>
>> Liberals (do/should) not blame the parents, at least not always.
>> Bringing up kids is not an easy task, for anyone. My better half did
>> most of the work, but I believe we have instilled work and other
>> ethics in our kids and grandkids. Everyone does start out equal, but
>> due to their own limitations or circumstances within or beyond their
>> control, they do not end up equal. While your perception of
>> "welfare" may be colored by your experiences, education and welfare
>> and p[overty are separate things. They do affect each other, of
>> course.
>
> MOST of the things directly responsible ARE controllable by the
> individual. Staying in school, not getting pregnant, saying "No" to a
> dope dealer, and other temptations contribute mightily to membership
> in the underclass.
>
> Conversely, there are things that encourage a proper life view:
> parents who read for recreation, caring for an animal, and more.

Maybe they are controllable, but tell that to the out of work, illiterate
sons and daughters of bitches ... Nobody seemed to have cared whether
they were taught anything. And my son-in-law who gets some of them in
high school math classes tells me that many of these kids are NOT stupid.
Some aren't even lazy. But no one has instilled in them the thirst for
learning. SO he has to wear T-shirts saying things like:

Sarcasm
Just another service we offer.

Some get it and start learning ...

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Hn

Han

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 9:45 PM

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Dave wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>>> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the
>>> problem.
>>
>> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
>> this excess of trouble makers?
>
> Greed. While greed is generally a good thing to have, there are always
> those who want to subvert the system. They learn in Sunday School
> there is no penalty for disobeying the Tenth Commandment.
>
> Their avarice is the price we must pay for the freedom to excel - or
> fail.

I'm still not quite sure that greed is good. Hunger to get stuff or
knowledge, obtained without theft, yes that is good. Teaching others
without usury, that's good too.


--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Hn

Han

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

19/05/2012 1:36 PM

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in news:8YCdnQjwu_dkbynSnZ2dnUVZ_q-
[email protected]:

I'm not sure that the desire to accomplish good things constitutes greed.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

BM

Bob Martin

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

17/05/2012 8:30 AM

in 1528027 20120516 114640 Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>>Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the problem.
>
>Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
>this excess of trouble makers?

http://begthequestion.info/

Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 8:52 PM

ChairMan wrote:
>>
>> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>>
>> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the
>> problem.
>
> Can we start with the leftover katrina victims still in tejas?

Here's a first-hand report from Houston.

1. After Katrina, the number of violent criminals increased dramatically.
2. Fortunately, they killed each other off with great alacrity as they tried
to sort out gang boundaries.
3. Those that didn't get killed, came face to face with Texas justice. I had
more than one Houston cop tell me a common refrain was "Whatcha mean I can't
be moseyin' thru my 'hood with a malt and a toke? I could back home!" Those
with that attitude are now in the Grey Bar Hotel.

It's not all bad. Katrina broke the legacy of dependency. Imagine those
Katria displaced persons who were relocated to, oh, Billings, Montana or
Salt Lake City. A common refrain seemed to be: "Youz mean all I gots to do
all day is stand behind dis counter and make Slurpies? And I gets PAID for
it? Damn, that be cool!"

Ll

Leon

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 1:16 PM

On 5/16/2012 12:13 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that
>>> produces
>>> this excess of trouble makers?
>
> "Leon" wrote:
>
>>
>> Liberals that want to blame the parents instead of the child. Lack
>> of appropriate punishment for the crime. Kids being taught that
>> every one is equal and entitled to the same things even if they
>> don't work. Government breeding poverty by welfare programs that do
>> not require certain people to work.
> -------------------------------------
> Talk about total bull shit.
>
> Lew
>
>

How is that Kool-Aid tasting Lew?

Ll

Leon

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 1:16 PM

On 5/16/2012 9:08 AM, Han wrote:
> Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 5/16/2012 5:46 AM, Dave wrote:
>>> On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>>>> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the
>>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
>>> this excess of trouble makers?
>>
>> Liberals that want to blame the parents instead of the child. Lack of
>> appropriate punishment for the crime. Kids being taught that every
>> one is equal and entitled to the same things even if they don't work.
>> Government breeding poverty by welfare programs that do not require
>> certain people to work.
.





>
> This "liberal" would hope that some time soon every child may get the
> same opportunities to excel, and that there will be parents, teachers,
> friends and acquaintances who all will encourage each child to fully
> exploit his/her potential. Then all can be rewarded as to their efforts,
> be they plumber, carpenter, professor or president.


I have go to say while it does not seem that every child in the US has
an equal opportunity, a majority of them have a better opportunity than
say 80% of the rest of the kids in the world.

So I say give the kids "equal opportunity" but no special privileges for
a particular race.

mI

"m II"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

19/05/2012 10:29 AM

Very bad choice of BS to change the topic and force your views into
the conversation.

In 1977, even Jonas Salk admitted that mass inoculations caused most
polio cases since 1961.

The Salk vaccine proved highly dangerous. Information about it was
suppressed, and declines in the disease were well underway when
mass-immunizations were begun. In Europe, they occurred in countries
that used, then rejected the vaccine proving it was never needed in the
first place. Showing also that the same is true for other diseases,
including Swine Flu with the WHO and CDC admitting that most cases are
mild, unthreatening, and generally pass without treatment, let alone
risking dangerous unneeded vaccines.

----------
"HeyBub" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Consider Albert Sabin peering into his microscope. He was motivated, no
doubt, by many altruistic urges. Still, to a large or small degree he
undoubtedly was motivated by some emotions that others would consider
unacceptable. He may have had enough pride to think "If I can whip
this,
people will shout my name and think I'm a swell fellow." He may have
thought: "A solution will earn me enough money to research the things I
want
without having to suck up to the bureaucrats." Maybe he even
considered:
"I'll beat that goddamn Jonas Salk like a drum."

Whatever.

As a result of his thinking - good and bad - Polio has been eradicated,
world-wide*, during my lifetime and yours.


CC

"Clay"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 10:59 AM



"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Der Spiegel (The Mirror) is a fairly influential German newspaper, and it
> reported here the number of cartridges fired by German police in 2011:
> http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/justiz/polizei-schoss-2011-seltener-im-
> dienst-a-832037.html
> http://preview.tinyurl.com/7kf3vpy
> The original url translates to (among others) "police shot 2011 fewer
> times on duty". The summary said:
> <quote>
> Polizisten schießen seltener im Dienst
>
> Die Nutzung von Schusswaffen im Dienst ist bei der Polizei in Deutschland
> leicht zurückgegangen: Im vergangenen Jahr schossen Beamte 36-mal auf
> Personen. Sechs Menschen starben, 15 wurden verletzt.
> </quote><translation of sorts>
> Officers shoot fewr times on duty
>
> The use of firearms on duty by police in Germany was a bit reduced: In
> the last year Officers shot 36 times on people. Six people died, 15 were
> injured.
> </translation>
>
> Germany has a bit over 80 million people. Seems to me that either the
> police in Germany has little to do with violent crime, or they stay in
> their preceinct offices and don't venture out.
>
> --
> Best regards
> Han
> email address is invalid


That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )


cc

chaniarts

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 1:31 PM

On 5/15/2012 1:14 PM, Han wrote:
> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Clay wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
>>> suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )
>>
>> As is the case pretty much around the nation. Yet - the advocates
>> would have you believe that you are safer with an LEO who is armed
>> than being armed yourself. Just as long as every shot is fired within
>> that 7 yard distance they train at, and there are enough of them to
>> throw enough lead...
>
> Do I really have to spell it out? Somehow it at least /seems/ that
> German society is a lot safer than many US places (these days).
> Question is what makes it so??
>
>
> Of course, one shouldn't generalize etc, etc.
>
docility of the general populous?

LB

Larry Blanchard

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 11:36 PM

On Tue, 15 May 2012 17:08:57 +0000, Han wrote:

> Germany has a bit over 80 million people. Seems to me that either the
> police in Germany has little to do with violent crime, or they stay in
> their preceinct offices and don't venture out.

IIRC, there are special semi-military police forces to deal with violent
situations. But I'm not sure about that.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

Jj

Jack

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

20/05/2012 9:53 AM

On 5/17/2012 3:30 AM, Bob Martin wrote:
> in 1528027 20120516 114640 Dave<[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>>> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the problem.
>>
>> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
>> this excess of trouble makers?
>
> http://begthequestion.info/

Which begs the question, is language fluid or stagnant?

--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com

Du

Dave

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 11:40 PM

On 16 May 2012 18:44:31 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>Liberals (do/should) not blame the parents, at least not always.
>Bringing up kids is not an easy task, for anyone. My better half did
>most of the work, but I believe we have instilled work and other ethics
>in our kids and grandkids.

Agree with this 100%. Reminds me of one time when I was over at my
parents house helping my father out with some heavy rocks in the
garden. I was 21 at the time.

He stops and looks at me and then says. "You turned out all right". I
hadn't realized that all those years of bringing me up, he had his
doubts.

I was a little bastard when I was a kid and then into my teenage
years. I guess I couldn't blame him for feeling that way. I'm sure it
partially explains why I never had any kids. Karma would have stuck it
to me for sure.

JG

"John Grossbohlin"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 5:53 PM


"Han" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Clay wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
>>> suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )
>>
>> As is the case pretty much around the nation. Yet - the advocates
>> would have you believe that you are safer with an LEO who is armed
>> than being armed yourself. Just as long as every shot is fired within
>> that 7 yard distance they train at, and there are enough of them to
>> throw enough lead...
>
> Do I really have to spell it out? Somehow it at least /seems/ that
> German society is a lot safer than many US places (these days).
> Question is what makes it so??

Digging into the crevices of my mind to pull things out from my past....
Leaving out all the academic lingo.... cross-national non-war violence rates
are mostly tied to the median age of the population and the proportion of
males to females.... police shootings are tied to violence levels so police
shootings are also tied to median age and gender ratio.

A real simple comparison of U.S. vs Germany rates for example:

Gender ratio (males/females)
Median Age Total Ages 15-64
US 44.30 .97 1.00
Germany 36.80 .97 1.04


Which suggests that median age is the primary influence here... older people
do less violence. Thanks go to my former associate Glenn Deane,
http://www.albany.edu/sociology/fac_profile_Deane.shtml for his study on
cross-national homicide statistics.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/population/median_age_total_2011_0.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sex_ratio

More generally, non-war violence/homicide has little to nothing to do with
gun availability as weapons substitution comes into play. Whether it's
knives, bats, weapons of opportunity, or feet, things other than guns can
kill depending upon how the force is applied. Having more handguns in
circulation compared to rifles and shotguns, and better medical care helps
the homicide rates too... less lethal wounds coupled with better care.

Getting back on topic... I'll take a gun stock made of a nicely figured
piece of hand rubbed oiled walnut over a "black gun" any day! ;~)

John

Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 3:19 PM

Han wrote:
>
> Liberals (do/should) not blame the parents, at least not always.
> Bringing up kids is not an easy task, for anyone. My better half did
> most of the work, but I believe we have instilled work and other
> ethics in our kids and grandkids. Everyone does start out equal, but
> due to their own limitations or circumstances within or beyond their
> control, they do not end up equal. While your perception of
> "welfare" may be colored by your experiences, education and welfare
> and p[overty are separate things. They do affect each other, of
> course.

MOST of the things directly responsible ARE controllable by the individual.
Staying in school, not getting pregnant, saying "No" to a dope dealer, and
other temptations contribute mightily to membership in the underclass.

Conversely, there are things that encourage a proper life view: parents who
read for recreation, caring for an animal, and more.

Sk

Swingman

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 9:25 AM

On 5/16/2012 5:46 AM, Dave wrote:

> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
> this excess of trouble makers?

Wretched excess ...

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

Hh

"HeyBub"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 3:14 PM

Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the
>> problem.
>
> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
> this excess of trouble makers?

Greed. While greed is generally a good thing to have, there are always those
who want to subvert the system. They learn in Sunday School there is no
penalty for disobeying the Tenth Commandment.

Their avarice is the price we must pay for the freedom to excel - or fail.

Ll

Leon

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

16/05/2012 7:09 AM

On 5/16/2012 5:46 AM, Dave wrote:
> On Tue, 15 May 2012 15:55:31 -0500, Leon<lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> Germany probably has a smaller mix of questionable people.
>> Ship our trouble makers over there and see how they deal with the problem.
>
> Which begs the question. What is there about US society that produces
> this excess of trouble makers?

Liberals that want to blame the parents instead of the child. Lack of
appropriate punishment for the crime. Kids being taught that every one
is equal and entitled to the same things even if they don't work.
Government breeding poverty by welfare programs that do not require
certain people to work.

Cc

"CW"

in reply to Han on 15/05/2012 5:08 PM

15/05/2012 10:03 PM



"chaniarts" wrote in message news:[email protected]...

On 5/15/2012 1:14 PM, Han wrote:
> "Mike Marlow"<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Clay wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's nothing ! The cops here in Portland can shoot that many at one
>>> suspect . ( of course only about a half dozen will actually hit him )
>>
>> As is the case pretty much around the nation. Yet - the advocates
>> would have you believe that you are safer with an LEO who is armed
>> than being armed yourself. Just as long as every shot is fired within
>> that 7 yard distance they train at, and there are enough of them to
>> throw enough lead...
>
> Do I really have to spell it out? Somehow it at least /seems/ that
> German society is a lot safer than many US places (these days).
> Question is what makes it so??
>
>
> Of course, one shouldn't generalize etc, etc.
>
docility of the general populous?
======================================================
Yep.


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