Folks,
I'm going to be rebuilding cabinet doors in the not so distant future.
SWMBO says that they must be "flat" -- that is, no raised panel, recessed
panel, etc -- no place to catch gunk. Also, they are to be wood, so no
painted MDF (although she would go for the vinyl-clad MDF if we must).
So, I've thought of three options:
* solid wood
* solid ply, with edges angled in
* ply center with solid edge banding
I'm not hot on the solid ply option, with the edges showing -- looks quite
old fashioned, and I'm hoping to avoid that look.
Solid wood concerns me with warping and shrinkage being in the kitchen (wood
would most likely be white or red oak). These doors will NOT be recessed
into the cabinets, so perhaps the shrinkage would be ok? 16" wide, what
should I expect in total movement?
Is the ply center with solid banding a reasonable door look (3/4 ply, mind
you, not recessed panel, which is quite normal)? I see such a door on
www.decore.net, but I'm not real hot on the look either. I'm considering
staining the "rail/stile"s so that they're a different shade than the panel.
Has anyone done this, and have pictures to show?
Thanks!
--randy
I have cabinets that have 3/4" oak ply, w/edge banding, slab doors. 3
coats of water based (which was a bit of a concern for a while but has
proven ok) poly. I'm not a big fan of a/c and for a number of
reasons the humidity varies from a nice a/c'd environment to a bit
humid (DC in summer). 8+ years and no problems yet. Only the (euro
style) hinges need periodic adjustment as they tend to loosen.
Solid wood seems a lot more unstable than ply.
Renata
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 13:59:14 GMT, "Randy Chapman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Nothing will go near my kitchen without a nice good layer (or more) of poly
>on it. Not with the way the kids are in there :-)
>
>Any issues with ply warping after finish?
>
>Thanks!
>--randy
>
>
>"Kim Whitmyre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> Has it held square? I'm having a hard time with this "plywood
>> > will warp" theory as (a) some of the cabinet doors in my house are
>plywood
>> > and they're not warped -- UNLIKE the wood ones in the kitchen (*), (b)
>my
>> > cousin's house has 20+ y/o plywood doors as well, (c) so does B-I-L's
>garage
>> > and kitchen. Cabinet grade, many layers, and well finished, of course.
>>
>>
>> I made new doors for a kitchen out of 11-layer veneer Birch, and the
>> client failed to paint them immediately. . .Not only did they warp,
>> causing me to have to replace about three doors, the veneer blistered in
>> 3-4 locations! As I said in my post, finish them as fast as you can! The
>> same, of course, holds true for wood doors. Plywood can and will warp
>> just like wood: gee, it is wood! ;~)
>>
>> Kim
>
>
That sounds exactly like what I was thinking. Do you have any pictures by
any chance? Has it held square? I'm having a hard time with this "plywood
will warp" theory as (a) some of the cabinet doors in my house are plywood
and they're not warped -- UNLIKE the wood ones in the kitchen (*), (b) my
cousin's house has 20+ y/o plywood doors as well, (c) so does B-I-L's garage
and kitchen. Cabinet grade, many layers, and well finished, of course.
Thanks!
--randy
(*) my current doors are crap. *mitred* corners with those corrugated metal
fasteners to help hold them, with a 1/16" or so back-panel (panelling, i
think) stapled on. They are warped like crazy, less than 1/2 close properly
now.
"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> OK, about 14 years ago I gutted the kitchen and started over.
> I used Cabinet quality Oak plywood and trimmed that with 2" wide solid Oak
> to hide the edges of the plywood for the doors.
> I did however cut a 1/16"x1/16" rabbet around the outside top perimeter of
> the plywood panel to give a slightly decorative effect between the plywood
> and the 2" wide solid oak edges.
>
>
>
>
> "Randy Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:JW%6b.287850$cF.89223@rwcrnsc53...
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > I'm going to be rebuilding cabinet doors in the not so distant future.
> >
> > SWMBO says that they must be "flat" -- that is, no raised panel,
recessed
> > panel, etc -- no place to catch gunk. Also, they are to be wood, so no
> > painted MDF (although she would go for the vinyl-clad MDF if we must).
> >
> > So, I've thought of three options:
> >
> > * solid wood
> > * solid ply, with edges angled in
> > * ply center with solid edge banding
> >
> > I'm not hot on the solid ply option, with the edges showing -- looks
quite
> > old fashioned, and I'm hoping to avoid that look.
> >
> > Solid wood concerns me with warping and shrinkage being in the kitchen
> (wood
> > would most likely be white or red oak). These doors will NOT be
recessed
> > into the cabinets, so perhaps the shrinkage would be ok? 16" wide, what
> > should I expect in total movement?
> >
> > Is the ply center with solid banding a reasonable door look (3/4 ply,
mind
> > you, not recessed panel, which is quite normal)? I see such a door on
> > www.decore.net, but I'm not real hot on the look either. I'm
considering
> > staining the "rail/stile"s so that they're a different shade than the
> panel.
> > Has anyone done this, and have pictures to show?
> >
> > Thanks!
> > --randy
> >
> >
> >
>
>
In article <JW%6b.287850$cF.89223@rwcrnsc53>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm going to be rebuilding cabinet doors in the not so distant future.
>
> SWMBO says that they must be "flat" -- that is, no raised panel, recessed
> panel, etc -- no place to catch gunk. Also, they are to be wood, so no
> painted MDF (although she would go for the vinyl-clad MDF if we must).
>
> So, I've thought of three options:
>
> * solid wood
> * solid ply, with edges angled in
> * ply center with solid edge banding
This bit at Lee Valley, for Shaker style doors, might help you out.
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.asp?page=45095&category=1,46168,46178
&abspage=1&ccurrency=2&SID=
The flat side of the panel faces out, with the field facing the interior
of the cabinet. Even though I just built a media cabinet for a client
using slab Birch doors (they are putting a faux finish on it
themselves), I don't recommend plywood doors in the kitchen. If you do
go the plywood route, use top grade stuff and edge/finish it as fast as
you can to keep the doors flat.
Kim
Has it held square? I'm having a hard time with this "plywood
> will warp" theory as (a) some of the cabinet doors in my house are plywood
> and they're not warped -- UNLIKE the wood ones in the kitchen (*), (b) my
> cousin's house has 20+ y/o plywood doors as well, (c) so does B-I-L's garage
> and kitchen. Cabinet grade, many layers, and well finished, of course.
I made new doors for a kitchen out of 11-layer veneer Birch, and the
client failed to paint them immediately. . .Not only did they warp,
causing me to have to replace about three doors, the veneer blistered in
3-4 locations! As I said in my post, finish them as fast as you can! The
same, of course, holds true for wood doors. Plywood can and will warp
just like wood: gee, it is wood! ;~)
Kim
In article <S0l7b.406465$uu5.73738@sccrnsc04>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Nothing will go near my kitchen without a nice good layer (or more) of poly
> on it. Not with the way the kids are in there :-)
>
> Any issues with ply warping after finish?
>
> Thanks!
> --randy
I have seen my share of old, warped plywood doors. But, hey, nothing is
perfect. With the cabinet grade plywood being moisture acclimated,
finished properly, you've done all you can do!
Kim
OK, about 14 years ago I gutted the kitchen and started over.
I used Cabinet quality Oak plywood and trimmed that with 2" wide solid Oak
to hide the edges of the plywood for the doors.
I did however cut a 1/16"x1/16" rabbet around the outside top perimeter of
the plywood panel to give a slightly decorative effect between the plywood
and the 2" wide solid oak edges.
"Randy Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:JW%6b.287850$cF.89223@rwcrnsc53...
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm going to be rebuilding cabinet doors in the not so distant future.
>
> SWMBO says that they must be "flat" -- that is, no raised panel, recessed
> panel, etc -- no place to catch gunk. Also, they are to be wood, so no
> painted MDF (although she would go for the vinyl-clad MDF if we must).
>
> So, I've thought of three options:
>
> * solid wood
> * solid ply, with edges angled in
> * ply center with solid edge banding
>
> I'm not hot on the solid ply option, with the edges showing -- looks quite
> old fashioned, and I'm hoping to avoid that look.
>
> Solid wood concerns me with warping and shrinkage being in the kitchen
(wood
> would most likely be white or red oak). These doors will NOT be recessed
> into the cabinets, so perhaps the shrinkage would be ok? 16" wide, what
> should I expect in total movement?
>
> Is the ply center with solid banding a reasonable door look (3/4 ply, mind
> you, not recessed panel, which is quite normal)? I see such a door on
> www.decore.net, but I'm not real hot on the look either. I'm considering
> staining the "rail/stile"s so that they're a different shade than the
panel.
> Has anyone done this, and have pictures to show?
>
> Thanks!
> --randy
>
>
>
Nothing will go near my kitchen without a nice good layer (or more) of poly
on it. Not with the way the kids are in there :-)
Any issues with ply warping after finish?
Thanks!
--randy
"Kim Whitmyre" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Has it held square? I'm having a hard time with this "plywood
> > will warp" theory as (a) some of the cabinet doors in my house are
plywood
> > and they're not warped -- UNLIKE the wood ones in the kitchen (*), (b)
my
> > cousin's house has 20+ y/o plywood doors as well, (c) so does B-I-L's
garage
> > and kitchen. Cabinet grade, many layers, and well finished, of course.
>
>
> I made new doors for a kitchen out of 11-layer veneer Birch, and the
> client failed to paint them immediately. . .Not only did they warp,
> causing me to have to replace about three doors, the veneer blistered in
> 3-4 locations! As I said in my post, finish them as fast as you can! The
> same, of course, holds true for wood doors. Plywood can and will warp
> just like wood: gee, it is wood! ;~)
>
> Kim
On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 13:59:05 GMT, "Randy Chapman"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Folks,
>
>I'm going to be rebuilding cabinet doors in the not so distant future.
>
>SWMBO says that they must be "flat" -- that is, no raised panel, recessed
>panel, etc -- no place to catch gunk. Also, they are to be wood, so no
>painted MDF (although she would go for the vinyl-clad MDF if we must).
>
>So, I've thought of three options:
>
>* solid wood
Too much time gluing up and getting flat. Also unstable unless you
use battens on the back with slotted holes to allow for wood movement
and that adds too much time.
>* solid ply, with edges angled in
Anathema.
>* ply center with solid edge banding
OK but still too much time and effort.
This is really an education issue. SWMBO must be made to see that
this is a perfect job for MDF. It's cheap ($0.51 per square foot this
morning at my supplier), it's stable (with the proviso that you coat
all surfaces equally), it takes a great paint finish (the edges will
have to be sanded to 220-320, double primed with a high solids primer
and sanded again before spraying the whole panel).
There is no laminated panel product that will give you the same flat
surface, without irregularities that will show up as you build the
gloss of the finish.
Sell her on the MDF. You won't regret it.
It might be worth mentioning to her that small time outfits like the
Smithsonian Institution and the Franklin Institute insist on MDF for
their painted displays. They use Medite, which is not what you get
from the Borg but they could order it for you.
Regards, Tom.
Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker
Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania
http://users.snip.net/~tjwatson
I'll post 4 pics on a.b.p.w. Look under Kitchen Pics, and I can send to
you through e-mail if you like.
I have had no warp at all and some of the doors are large for a kitchen. I
used biscuits to join the edge pieces to the plywood panels and there has
been marginal shrinkage over the years that shows up at the butt joints.
BUTT,,,,you have to look or feel for the differences to know that they are
there.
That said, the house is centrally heated and cooled so the humidity is
pretty much a constant in Houston, TX.
Also I stained and varnished every square inch front and back.
"Randy Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> That sounds exactly like what I was thinking. Do you have any pictures by
> any chance? Has it held square? I'm having a hard time with this
"plywood
> will warp" theory as (a) some of the cabinet doors in my house are plywood
> and they're not warped -- UNLIKE the wood ones in the kitchen (*), (b) my
> cousin's house has 20+ y/o plywood doors as well, (c) so does B-I-L's
garage
> and kitchen. Cabinet grade, many layers, and well finished, of course.
>
> Thanks!
> --randy
>
> (*) my current doors are crap. *mitred* corners with those corrugated
metal
> fasteners to help hold them, with a 1/16" or so back-panel (panelling, i
> think) stapled on. They are warped like crazy, less than 1/2 close
properly
> now.
>
> "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > OK, about 14 years ago I gutted the kitchen and started over.
> > I used Cabinet quality Oak plywood and trimmed that with 2" wide solid
Oak
> > to hide the edges of the plywood for the doors.
> > I did however cut a 1/16"x1/16" rabbet around the outside top perimeter
of
> > the plywood panel to give a slightly decorative effect between the
plywood
> > and the 2" wide solid oak edges.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Randy Chapman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:JW%6b.287850$cF.89223@rwcrnsc53...
> > >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > I'm going to be rebuilding cabinet doors in the not so distant future.
> > >
> > > SWMBO says that they must be "flat" -- that is, no raised panel,
> recessed
> > > panel, etc -- no place to catch gunk. Also, they are to be wood, so
no
> > > painted MDF (although she would go for the vinyl-clad MDF if we must).
> > >
> > > So, I've thought of three options:
> > >
> > > * solid wood
> > > * solid ply, with edges angled in
> > > * ply center with solid edge banding
> > >
> > > I'm not hot on the solid ply option, with the edges showing -- looks
> quite
> > > old fashioned, and I'm hoping to avoid that look.
> > >
> > > Solid wood concerns me with warping and shrinkage being in the kitchen
> > (wood
> > > would most likely be white or red oak). These doors will NOT be
> recessed
> > > into the cabinets, so perhaps the shrinkage would be ok? 16" wide,
what
> > > should I expect in total movement?
> > >
> > > Is the ply center with solid banding a reasonable door look (3/4 ply,
> mind
> > > you, not recessed panel, which is quite normal)? I see such a door on
> > > www.decore.net, but I'm not real hot on the look either. I'm
> considering
> > > staining the "rail/stile"s so that they're a different shade than the
> > panel.
> > > Has anyone done this, and have pictures to show?
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > > --randy
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>