Looks like chicken...

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

> No it doesn't. Human muscle looks like beef. Cold dead humans smell like
> cold chicken. Trust me on this.

Maybe it wasn't muscle then? Fat? My fingers aren't very fat, but I guess
there might be some layer in there. It looked for all the world like raw
chicken breast.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:07:27 -0400, Silvan wrote:

> Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
> that?
>
> Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> DEFINITELY a chisel.

The good news is that your scary sharp technique seems to be improving :-)

-Doug

Silvan wrote:

> Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
> that?
>
> Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> DEFINITELY a chisel.
>
> Gack. I'm going to have to unwrap this thing real soon now and see if I
> need stitches.
>
> I would have gotten stitches already, but I have no freaking idea how to use
> my insurance. It has changed six times in seven years, and I haven't used
> it since the guy five doctors ago moved out of town. I have no idea who
> has my records, who my designated "gatekeeper" is, or which hospital I'm
> allowed to use, though it's a safe bet that I'm not permitted to be cared
> for at the hospital 1/2 mile from my house, where I and both of my children
> were born.
>
> Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this country!
>
Sorry you cut yourself. Can't be too bad if you can get on the net and
bitch about not knowing how your insurance plan works. The man from
Canada implied that you wouldn't have to know anything about insurance
coverage there. Perhaps a move to Canada will put the medical
establishment back into your good graces. :>)
IMHO, human muscle tissue looks more like pork if it hasn't been blown
all to shit; then it looks like beef.
Hope you're a quick healer.
Regards,
Hank

"Bill, that cigar really, really stinks".
Hillary Rodham Clinton



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Well, I suppose you might want to know about "fast" versus "slow" muscle.
Your chicken has both, as do you. The mix of fibers and the hemoglobin
saturation determine the color. My fingers are white meat, as I recall.
The guy who wishes he had been wearing his chaps while chainsawing the other
day was dark meat in the thigh.

NB: In the US you are entitled to all the care money can buy, in Canada, all
the care they're willing to give you....

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
>
> > No it doesn't. Human muscle looks like beef. Cold dead humans smell
like
> > cold chicken. Trust me on this.
>
> Maybe it wasn't muscle then? Fat? My fingers aren't very fat, but I
guess
> there might be some layer in there. It looked for all the world like raw
> chicken breast.

Did you see the ABC News series they're running this week? The other
day they said that in the US, the rich are happy with their medical
care. Others, not quite so.

Renata


On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:12:45 -0400, "George"
<[email protected]> wrote:
--snip--
>
>NB: In the US you are entitled to all the care money can buy, in Canada, all
>the care they're willing to give you....
>

Now, how am I supposed to know that, suddenly, eating breakfast while
perusing htis group is not such a good idea...?
Maybe some sorta warning label in the subject line, kinda like "OT" is
being used ;-)

Renata

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 05:25:48 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Silvan wrote:
>
>>> No it doesn't. Human muscle looks like beef. Cold dead humans
>>> smell like cold chicken. Trust me on this.
>>
>> Maybe it wasn't muscle then? Fat? My fingers aren't very fat, but I
>> guess there might be some layer in there. It looked for all the
>> world like raw chicken breast.
>
>Not trying to be gross... I grew up on a ranch and we did our own
>butchering. I had one run-in with a sharp hog-wire barb wire fence that cut
>my leg badly. I was able to observe, first hand, that the skin is an organ
>about 1/4" thick that covers the muscle. The muscle underneath looked
>*persactly* like beef & venison meat. (& twiching where it was cut at an
>angle.) Though it was stiched shut it pulled apart before totally healed.
>I can still feel it, right now, more than 20 years later.
>
> -- Mark
>
>

Oooowwww! Sorry to hear that and I hope you got your behind to a
doctor/hospital!

Just thought you'd like to know what you're medical salve is also used
for <eg>...

"Alum is the coagulant of choice for many industrial and sanitary
wastewater tratment applications due to its high efficiency,
effectiveness in clarification, and utility as a sludge dewatering
agent. The chemical leaves no residual color, offers very good
turbidity removal, and is available as G.R.A.S. or food grade
quality".
from beckart.com

but also...

"This natural stone is used in the event of minor nicks or cuts. It
can also serve as an after-shave antiseptic."
from drugstore.com

Note the word "minor".

Renata

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:07:27 -0400, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
>that?
>
>Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
>DEFINITELY a chisel.
>
>Gack. I'm going to have to unwrap this thing real soon now and see if I
>need stitches.
>
>I would have gotten stitches already, but I have no freaking idea how to use
>my insurance. It has changed six times in seven years, and I haven't used
>it since the guy five doctors ago moved out of town. I have no idea who
>has my records, who my designated "gatekeeper" is, or which hospital I'm
>allowed to use, though it's a safe bet that I'm not permitted to be cared
>for at the hospital 1/2 mile from my house, where I and both of my children
>were born.
>
>Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this country!
>
>--
>Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
>Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
>http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>

And you're surprised by this?

Personally, I've never met anyone who was paid what he was worth or given
the respect he earned ... according to him.

BTW, the "rich" are more likely to understand what constitutes good medical
care than the "others."

"Renata" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Did you see the ABC News series they're running this week? The other
> day they said that in the US, the rich are happy with their medical
> care. Others, not quite so.
>
> Renata
>
>
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:12:45 -0400, "George"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> --snip--
> >
> >NB: In the US you are entitled to all the care money can buy, in Canada,
all
> >the care they're willing to give you....
> >
>

About the last thing you want to do in today's legal climate is obstetrics.
Country docs give 'em magnesium sulfate and a pillow to clamp between their
knees and call the medics to take 'em someplace else.

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I had a doctor like that too. Not the guy to go to if you have some weird
> disease, but most things have been around since the dawn of time.
>
> Hell of a doctor, that Dr. Boatwright. I'm not sure how old he was when
he
> passed on, but he was definitely in geezer territory. Kept on seeing
> patients to the end.
>
> He delivered me, and maybe Mom too.

[email protected] wrote:


>

> After reading the different posts on Chicken I realize that one of the
> many benefits of living in Canada is our Health Care system. Yes i
> always complain about the amount of taxes that i pay yearly, but when
> i think about it the many side benefits are great. Rich or poor get
> the same treatment here. Your salary has nothing to do with it. Of
> course the rich can always go to a private doctor for speedy care. I
> had to wait almost a year to get an MRI on my shoulder which I had
> dislocated. I finaly got the MRI and there was no problems (which I
> and the therapist thought there was) so it worked out in the end. No
> payments for the thereapist either (twice a week). Its probably too
> late now for the US to go to this system, and in fact many here are
> advocating a move to Private Health Care. It may come because the
> public system is so expensive to the various levels of government. I
> cant give u figures, but even in this small Province of NS it is very
> large and a very big bite out of the provincial Budget. Of course the
> small guy hopes that the public health care continues. I hope it last
> another 20 years or so and then they can do what they want!!!!
> In the mean time i know that in an emergency the ambulance will come
> to my place and take me to the hospital (whichever one is appropriate)
> and i will not get a large bill in the mail or any hassle when I
> arrive at the hospital. I suspect that this health system is one of
> the reasons that Canada is one of the top places to live in the world.
> I'm definetly not moving anywhere, except may west!!
> Ken, making dust in NS
Ken,
Keep Canada a secret or all the people that are coming to the USA will
go there. We'd hate that. :)
Hank



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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

George wrote:

> About the last thing you want to do in today's legal climate is obstetrics.
> Country docs give 'em magnesium sulfate and a pillow to clamp between their
> knees and call the medics to take 'em someplace else.
>
> "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
First thing we do is kill all the lawyers. Don't remember where I read
that, but it wasn't the Harvard Law Review.
Hank



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Morgans wrote:

>> Yeah, I'll bet. Delivering babies sure has gotten a lot more complicated
>> since I was born. ;)

> Tis true. Family practice docs can not afford the malpractice insurance;
> only the obgyn docs can, because they do it all the time.

Yeah, plus the whole face of child bearing really has changed a lot. People
are generally waiting until they're a lot older than I am to even think
they might get around to having kids, and women are frequently well past
their biologically prime bearing years, so everything is more complicated.

The methods have changed a lot too. I was born in a stainless steel
operating theater. Both of my kids were born in rooms done up in cherry
and walnut. Very clever furniture that kept the necessary supplies and
instruments close at hand without looking medical until it needed to.

See, that cherry and walnut is why it's so dang expensive. That's whatcha
get when you let wimminz become doctors. They get crazy ideas about not
making the process of giving birth a terrifying ordeal, and they make men
come in and *watch* that whole mess...

(Wouldn't trade it for the world. I'm glad I didn't have to *do* it, but
I'm glad I was there. It's probably a lot easier being a woman now than it
used to be.)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Spit on it and pack it with sawdust,
Works for me everytime<G>

But if it is that bad Jim is right, at worst there is a 50.00 deductable.
However do not tell them it was done last week, most emergency rooms will
only declare it an emergency if it happened in the last 48 hours, they will
actually tell you, this is not an emergency go see your doctor.
Yes they smile when they tell you this.

So does my proctologist when he says "Bend Over Please"

Just be carefull to keep it clean and don't let it get infected, this you
will know without help

George

"Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
> > that?
> >
> > Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> > DEFINITELY a chisel.
> !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Gack! Go to the emergency room, now! Most cuts like a chisel only have
60
> to 90 minutes, before stitches won't do any good.
>
> It would be the very rare insurance that would not cover an emergency room
> visit ANYWHERE, if it is a true emergency. Take your card, receipt or
> policy, anything with a number.
>
> Get going.
> --
> Jim in NC
>
>

Kevin wrote:

> The community was saddened when he passed on.

I had a doctor like that too. Not the guy to go to if you have some weird
disease, but most things have been around since the dawn of time.

Hell of a doctor, that Dr. Boatwright. I'm not sure how old he was when he
passed on, but he was definitely in geezer territory. Kept on seeing
patients to the end.

He delivered me, and maybe Mom too.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Renata wrote:
>
> > Oooowwww! Sorry to hear that and I hope you got your behind to a
> > doctor/hospital!
>
> Nup. Just as well though. I finally found my new insurance card. I'd have
> ended up paying 100% of the bill, and I sure don't have it.

For emergency services? That's just backwards, that's what insurance
should be for, catastrophic and emergency issues.

>
> It probably could have used stitches, but it's not that bad. Very clean.
> The edges of the wound are easy to separate if I really want to, but since
> I'm leaving it bandaged and medicated, it should be fine.

I'm not one to talk, several years ago when I banged a knuckle between
a sledge hammer and the mailbox base plate I was installing I didn't go
to the doctor either. A day later, I allowed myself to be intimidated
into going -- he looked at it and said he would have liked to have put a
couple stitches in it, but could only do that in the first 24 hours.
It's not that I couldn't afford it or wouldn't have been covered -- I
think I was too embarassed by what I had done and it wasn't bleeding
that bad, and I don't like doctors visits anyway ....

Still have a bump on that knuckle, but no other long term effects.

> No bleeding, no
> signs of infection. I'm glad I didn't spend the money.

Doug Winterburn wrote:

>> DEFINITELY a chisel.
>
> The good news is that your scary sharp technique seems to be improving :-)

Yeah buddy, you got that right! I didn't stick it into my hand or anything
like that. It really just barely grazed me.

Probably a good thing.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

George wrote:

> About the last thing you want to do in today's legal climate is
> obstetrics. Country docs give 'em magnesium sulfate and a pillow to clamp
> between their knees and call the medics to take 'em someplace else.

Yeah, I'll bet. Delivering babies sure has gotten a lot more complicated
since I was born. ;)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Well then, sounds like you have to freshen up that wound, so they
can both declare it an emergency, and use stitches to close it.

I recommend a crisp blow to the old wound with a scarey sharp
1" chisel. Word of warning, it hurts more the second time. You
may want to put a stick between your teeth so you don't bite off
your tongue.

--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Spit on it and pack it with sawdust,
> Works for me everytime<G>
>
> But if it is that bad Jim is right, at worst there is a 50.00 deductable.
> However do not tell them it was done last week, most emergency rooms will
> only declare it an emergency if it happened in the last 48 hours, they
will
> actually tell you, this is not an emergency go see your doctor.
> Yes they smile when they tell you this.
>
> So does my proctologist when he says "Bend Over Please"
>
> Just be carefull to keep it clean and don't let it get infected, this you
> will know without help
>
> George
>
> "Morgans" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever
notice
> > > that?
> > >
> > > Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> > > DEFINITELY a chisel.
> > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Gack! Go to the emergency room, now! Most cuts like a chisel only have
> 60
> > to 90 minutes, before stitches won't do any good.
> >
> > It would be the very rare insurance that would not cover an emergency
room
> > visit ANYWHERE, if it is a true emergency. Take your card, receipt or
> > policy, anything with a number.
> >
> > Get going.
> > --
> > Jim in NC
> >
> >
>
>

On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:48:12 -0400, "Morgans"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Tis true. Family practice docs can not afford the malpractice insurance;
>only the obgyn docs can, because they do it all the time.

Do you have still midwives in the USA ?

Our (UK) midwives are currently having a bit of a disagreement with
obstetricians, over the amount of medical intervention and the safety
of home births. Their argument (simply) is that most births don't need
much intervention, those that will are generally obvious early on, and
many forms of early-stage intervention (such as induction) then turn
the entire birth into a medical procedure. If the doctors didn't
interfere at the start, they wouldn't create so much work for
themselves later on.

--
Die Gotterspammerung - Junkmail of the Gods

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
> that?
>
> Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> DEFINITELY a chisel.
>
> Gack. I'm going to have to unwrap this thing real soon now and see if I
> need stitches.
>
> I would have gotten stitches already, but I have no freaking idea how to
use
> my insurance. It has changed six times in seven years, and I haven't used
> it since the guy five doctors ago moved out of town. I have no idea who
> has my records, who my designated "gatekeeper" is, or which hospital I'm
> allowed to use, though it's a safe bet that I'm not permitted to be cared
> for at the hospital 1/2 mile from my house, where I and both of my
children
> were born.
>
> Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this country!
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
Once I put a screwdriver all the way through my middle finger, but it didn't
hurt a bit. That's because when I had cut my hand up with a chain saw, it
severed a nerve.

Mark Jerde wrote:


> about 1/4" thick that covers the muscle. The muscle underneath looked
> *persactly* like beef & venison meat. (& twiching where it was cut at an
> angle.) Though it was stiched shut it pulled apart before totally healed.
> I can still feel it, right now, more than 20 years later.

Gack.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Silvan wrote:

> Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
> that?
>
> Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> DEFINITELY a chisel.
>
> Gack. I'm going to have to unwrap this thing real soon now and see if I
> need stitches.

Yup, sliced my forearm with a machete I stuck in the small stump of the
tree I'd just cut down many years ago and still remember how gross it
and the bone looked 40 years later. Got 12 stitches and 2 days after
them coming out my cousin gave me an 'indian burn' right on the same
spot. Got 6 more stitches in it and one butt ugly scar ever since.

Silvan wrote:

> Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this
> country!

Find a lawyer & thank 'em.

-- Mark

"Hitch" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> > Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this
country!
> >
>
> Sorry about the cut. And if you want different insurance, be sure to
> vote for a candidate who is for single-payer health coverage for the
> entire U.S. (note that I did not say "government-run"). Someone like
> Dean. We need to get the profit out of medical insurance!

Why did you hear that hell froze over and that would be next.

> --
> Remove the NOSPAM from my address and you've got SPAM!
>

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Silvan wrote:
>> Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever
>> notice that?
>
>
> No it doesn't. Human muscle looks like beef.

Anecdotely, more like pork. The curious may want to google
for "long pig".

John

Morgans wrote:

> Gack! Go to the emergency room, now! Most cuts like a chisel only have
> 60 to 90 minutes, before stitches won't do any good.

By the time I posted the message, it was already too late then. I dumped
alum on it and wrapped/taped it with gauze, then finished the project I was
working on, taking care to keep my damn hands out of the path of the
chisels.

I don't know if using alum is actually a medically sanctioned good idea or
not, but it damn sure works. Turns black, makes the wound clot up fast.
One of Mom's tricks.

"This product should not be used as a dusting powder as it can be harmful.
Alum should be used only when diluted as directed."

Well I guess it's *not* a medically sanctioned good idea. I wonder what
"harmful" means in this context.

Well, anyway, too late for that now. My finger works, and it isn't
infected. I plan to keep it that way.

I think I'll be fine, but thanks for caring. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:07:27 -0400, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
>that?
>
>Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
>DEFINITELY a chisel.
>
>Gack. I'm going to have to unwrap this thing real soon now and see if I
>need stitches.
>
>I would have gotten stitches already, but I have no freaking idea how to use
>my insurance. It has changed six times in seven years, and I haven't used
>it since the guy five doctors ago moved out of town. I have no idea who
>has my records, who my designated "gatekeeper" is, or which hospital I'm
>allowed to use, though it's a safe bet that I'm not permitted to be cared
>for at the hospital 1/2 mile from my house, where I and both of my children
>were born.
>
>Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this country!

It sure is nice to live in Canada where you can go to any hospital or
emergency room, don't have to even pay for the ambulance (unless its a
car accident, then they really soak you because they expect the car
insurance to make it up). Just make sure you have your provincial
Health Card with you. No worrys.
Ken, makin dust (not blood) in NS

> Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this country!
>

Sorry about the cut. And if you want different insurance, be sure to
vote for a candidate who is for single-payer health coverage for the
entire U.S. (note that I did not say "government-run"). Someone like
Dean. We need to get the profit out of medical insurance!


--
Remove the NOSPAM from my address and you've got SPAM!

Silvan wrote:


> Maybe it wasn't muscle then? Fat? My fingers aren't very fat, but I guess
> there might be some layer in there. It looked for all the world like raw
> chicken breast.
>

What you saw was fat. The fingers don't have any muscle in them at all.
Everything is attached by tendons to the muscles in your forearm with
the exception of 1 muscle in your palm that controls part of your thumb.
I was very surprised to learn that from my physical therapist after a
nasty run in with the table saw.

--
Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD

Grandpa wrote:

> Yup, sliced my forearm with a machete I stuck in the small stump of the
> tree I'd just cut down many years ago and still remember how gross it
> and the bone looked 40 years later. Got 12 stitches and 2 days after
> them coming out my cousin gave me an 'indian burn' right on the same
> spot. Got 6 more stitches in it and one butt ugly scar ever since.
>
>

Ahhhhh! I hope you kicked his ass :-) That hurts just thinking about it.
--
Donnie Vazquez
Sunderland, MD

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

Silvan's remarks about payments >snipped<

A bit of a story.
Around the late 70s my uncle and the vet were getting some cows and their
calves moved to a new pasture. This meant loading them in a cattle trailer
and hauling them off. Well as one of the cows was scampering (well, to the
extent a 1200 lb cow can scamper) past my uncle, she let out and kicked him
oin the side of the face.
"We better get you to ol Doc" said the vet.
"Nah, I feel ok," said Unlce.
Well within a few minites Uncle was feeling a bit dizzy and decided to go
washoff his mug and assess the damage. He said that while he was walking
past the kitchen window he happened to look and see his reflection. Said he
could see his teeth through his cheek. Then and there he said he got dizzy
as heck and had to sit down. The vet drove him in to see the Doc. (Everyone
called him Ol Doc Biermann. He'd been in the community since the early 30s
and had delivered whose grandparent he had delivered and in some cases, weas
still owed for the delivery of the grandparents!)
Well Doc sat my uncle down in the examination room and started cleaning up
the damage. He had to sew on the part of uncle's ear that had been torn
loose. After finishing up the stitching, he asked his nurse Ginger "Ginger,
did I get that ear sewed on straight?" Heh, Doc was in his mid to late 70s
at the time.
Anyways, when the bill came it was a grand total of $150.00. Yep, one
hundred and fifty dollars. This is the same Doc that prescribed 2
tablespoons of blackberry brandy for loose bowels.
The community was saddened when he passed on.

Silvan <[email protected]> wrote:

> See, that cherry and walnut is why it's so dang expensive. That's whatcha
> get when you let wimminz become doctors. They get crazy ideas about not
> making the process of giving birth a terrifying ordeal, and they make men
> come in and *watch* that whole mess...

I'll be sure to tell my med student daughter that. ;-)

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

Andy Dingley <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:48:12 -0400, "Morgans"
> <[email protected]> wrote:

> >Tis true. Family practice docs can not afford the malpractice insurance;
> >only the obgyn docs can, because they do it all the time.

> Do you have still midwives in the USA ?

Yes. More now than 30 to 40 years ago. There was a bit
of a backlash to the doctor oriented childbirth system
of the post WW2 era. In the US midwives almost disappeared
till that backlash occured. It was sort of an outgrowth of
the 60s anti-establishment and womens' rights movements.

> Our (UK) midwives are currently having a bit of a disagreement with
> obstetricians, over the amount of medical intervention and the safety
> of home births. Their argument (simply) is that most births don't need
> much intervention, those that will are generally obvious early on, and
> many forms of early-stage intervention (such as induction) then turn
> the entire birth into a medical procedure. If the doctors didn't
> interfere at the start, they wouldn't create so much work for
> themselves later on.

Yep, I remember reading pretty much the same arguments
about 25 years ago when my first child was expected.
Midwives and non-clinical birthing rooms have become
more prevelant since then. I'm sure the same arguments
are still being made on both sides.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

David Binkowski wrote:

> I recommend a crisp blow to the old wound with a scarey sharp
> 1" chisel. Word of warning, it hurts more the second time. You
> may want to put a stick between your teeth so you don't bite off
> your tongue.

LMAO!!

That's OK. I think I'll pass. :)

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:35:25 GMT, "Clint Neufeld"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Of course, I get more deducted off my paychecks up here in Alberta for my
>"free" healthcare than when I spent a year down in Florida.
>
>Clint
>
Of course you are perfectly correct Clint. We do not get Health Care
for free. But when you need it it is there with no questions as long
as you have a Health Card. By the way i wish we had no prov sales tax
like you people. Tried before to get the wife to move to Alberta but
she wants to stay near the family. Go figure.
Ken, makin dust in NS
><[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:07:27 -0400, Silvan
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
>> >that?
>> >
>> >Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
>> >DEFINITELY a chisel.
>> >
>> >Gack. I'm going to have to unwrap this thing real soon now and see if I
>> >need stitches.
>> >
>> >I would have gotten stitches already, but I have no freaking idea how to
>use
>> >my insurance. It has changed six times in seven years, and I haven't
>used
>> >it since the guy five doctors ago moved out of town. I have no idea who
>> >has my records, who my designated "gatekeeper" is, or which hospital I'm
>> >allowed to use, though it's a safe bet that I'm not permitted to be cared
>> >for at the hospital 1/2 mile from my house, where I and both of my
>children
>> >were born.
>> >
>> >Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this
>country!
>>
>> It sure is nice to live in Canada where you can go to any hospital or
>> emergency room, don't have to even pay for the ambulance (unless its a
>> car accident, then they really soak you because they expect the car
>> insurance to make it up). Just make sure you have your provincial
>> Health Card with you. No worrys.
>> Ken, makin dust (not blood) in NS
>

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:22:48 -0400, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Mark & Juanita wrote:
>
>>> Nup. Just as well though. I finally found my new insurance card. I'd
>>> have ended up paying 100% of the bill, and I sure don't have it.
>>
>> For emergency services? That's just backwards, that's what insurance
>> should be for, catastrophic and emergency issues.
>
>Oh, it would be "covered" but it would just count toward the deductible. I
>don't start to see any advantage until things get *really* expensive. I
>haven't actually ever had stitches, and I don't remember what it cost to
>get my daughter patched up at the doctor's office (it was a lot cheaper
>than the previous time, at the ER) but I'm thinking I probably wouldn't
>spend more than $500 for three stitches. That's $500 I don't have, which I
>don't want to be in debt for. After $500, they pay 80%, but that could
>still be $500+ if I'm being too optimistic about the cost of stitches.
>
>We're already getting nickel and dimed to death over two trips to the doctor
>this summer. The kids each have $750 deductibles, and we almost met them
>both. We're making payments on the bills, but you don't just get one bill,
>you get six different little medical sub-contractors all clammoring for
>their slice of the pie, and telling you what an asshole you are every month
>for not just cutting them a big, fat check for the whole amount. That
>makes for a total of twelve people screaming every month and reminding me
>how very expensive it can be to spend half an hour getting medical
>treatment.
>
>That's why I say I hate the medical establishment. It's not the providers,
>or the quality of care, but the whole system of expensive insurance that
>doesn't cover anything that's less than catastrophic, and owing half a
>dozen different people for every trivial little thing. A lot of little
>things go wrong with kids.
>
>> It's not that I couldn't afford it or wouldn't have been covered -- I
>> think I was too embarassed by what I had done and it wasn't bleeding
>> that bad, and I don't like doctors visits anyway ....
>
>Well, the other side of all of this is that if I had gone to the doctor, I
>would have wasted a significant portion of my shop time sitting around and
>waiting in some stupid office instead of finishing my project. I'm sure
>that factored in, since I went back out as soon as I could stop bleeding
>all over my workpiece. :)
>
>> Still have a bump on that knuckle, but no other long term effects.
>
>Yeah, I have a number of scars from other misadventures. The only time I've
>ever had stitches was when I had to get my thumb re-located.
>
>That cost my parents about $1,000 in 1982. I'll bet the same procedure
>costs at least $10,000 now. My thumb was completely ripped out of place,
>and the bulk of it was inside the palm of my hand, with the remainder
>pointing toward my elbow. It works, which is pretty damn amazing, but it
>doesn't work 100%. I lost some fractional range of motion, and I can't do
>certain things without discomfort. Mostly this means I can't snap my
>fingers on my right hand, which is not a huge loss.
>
>Hmmm... Now there's food for thought. The surgeon who performed that
>little miracle has been in prison for some time now for tax evasion...


After reading the different posts on Chicken I realize that one of the
many benefits of living in Canada is our Health Care system. Yes i
always complain about the amount of taxes that i pay yearly, but when
i think about it the many side benefits are great. Rich or poor get
the same treatment here. Your salary has nothing to do with it. Of
course the rich can always go to a private doctor for speedy care. I
had to wait almost a year to get an MRI on my shoulder which I had
dislocated. I finaly got the MRI and there was no problems (which I
and the therapist thought there was) so it worked out in the end. No
payments for the thereapist either (twice a week). Its probably too
late now for the US to go to this system, and in fact many here are
advocating a move to Private Health Care. It may come because the
public system is so expensive to the various levels of government. I
cant give u figures, but even in this small Province of NS it is very
large and a very big bite out of the provincial Budget. Of course the
small guy hopes that the public health care continues. I hope it last
another 20 years or so and then they can do what they want!!!!
In the mean time i know that in an emergency the ambulance will come
to my place and take me to the hospital (whichever one is appropriate)
and i will not get a large bill in the mail or any hassle when I
arrive at the hospital. I suspect that this health system is one of
the reasons that Canada is one of the top places to live in the world.
I'm definetly not moving anywhere, except may west!!
Ken, making dust in NS

Hey, Ken, nice to hear from another Canuck! :) Yeah, the no PST thing is
nice, but I think we get nailed somehow... BTW, my wife's family is from out
your way, and we keep meaning to head out there to visit. Haven't got
around to it yet, though...

Clint

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:35:25 GMT, "Clint Neufeld"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Of course, I get more deducted off my paychecks up here in Alberta for my
> >"free" healthcare than when I spent a year down in Florida.
> >
> >Clint
> >
> Of course you are perfectly correct Clint. We do not get Health Care
> for free. But when you need it it is there with no questions as long
> as you have a Health Card. By the way i wish we had no prov sales tax
> like you people. Tried before to get the wife to move to Alberta but
> she wants to stay near the family. Go figure.
> Ken, makin dust in NS
> ><[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:07:27 -0400, Silvan
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever
notice
> >> >that?
> >> >
> >> >Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> >> >DEFINITELY a chisel.
> >> >
> >> >Gack. I'm going to have to unwrap this thing real soon now and see if
I
> >> >need stitches.
> >> >
> >> >I would have gotten stitches already, but I have no freaking idea how
to
> >use
> >> >my insurance. It has changed six times in seven years, and I haven't
> >used
> >> >it since the guy five doctors ago moved out of town. I have no idea
who
> >> >has my records, who my designated "gatekeeper" is, or which hospital
I'm
> >> >allowed to use, though it's a safe bet that I'm not permitted to be
cared
> >> >for at the hospital 1/2 mile from my house, where I and both of my
> >children
> >> >were born.
> >> >
> >> >Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this
> >country!
> >>
> >> It sure is nice to live in Canada where you can go to any hospital or
> >> emergency room, don't have to even pay for the ambulance (unless its a
> >> car accident, then they really soak you because they expect the car
> >> insurance to make it up). Just make sure you have your provincial
> >> Health Card with you. No worrys.
> >> Ken, makin dust (not blood) in NS
> >
>

Mark & Juanita wrote:

>> Nup. Just as well though. I finally found my new insurance card. I'd
>> have ended up paying 100% of the bill, and I sure don't have it.
>
> For emergency services? That's just backwards, that's what insurance
> should be for, catastrophic and emergency issues.

Oh, it would be "covered" but it would just count toward the deductible. I
don't start to see any advantage until things get *really* expensive. I
haven't actually ever had stitches, and I don't remember what it cost to
get my daughter patched up at the doctor's office (it was a lot cheaper
than the previous time, at the ER) but I'm thinking I probably wouldn't
spend more than $500 for three stitches. That's $500 I don't have, which I
don't want to be in debt for. After $500, they pay 80%, but that could
still be $500+ if I'm being too optimistic about the cost of stitches.

We're already getting nickel and dimed to death over two trips to the doctor
this summer. The kids each have $750 deductibles, and we almost met them
both. We're making payments on the bills, but you don't just get one bill,
you get six different little medical sub-contractors all clammoring for
their slice of the pie, and telling you what an asshole you are every month
for not just cutting them a big, fat check for the whole amount. That
makes for a total of twelve people screaming every month and reminding me
how very expensive it can be to spend half an hour getting medical
treatment.

That's why I say I hate the medical establishment. It's not the providers,
or the quality of care, but the whole system of expensive insurance that
doesn't cover anything that's less than catastrophic, and owing half a
dozen different people for every trivial little thing. A lot of little
things go wrong with kids.

> It's not that I couldn't afford it or wouldn't have been covered -- I
> think I was too embarassed by what I had done and it wasn't bleeding
> that bad, and I don't like doctors visits anyway ....

Well, the other side of all of this is that if I had gone to the doctor, I
would have wasted a significant portion of my shop time sitting around and
waiting in some stupid office instead of finishing my project. I'm sure
that factored in, since I went back out as soon as I could stop bleeding
all over my workpiece. :)

> Still have a bump on that knuckle, but no other long term effects.

Yeah, I have a number of scars from other misadventures. The only time I've
ever had stitches was when I had to get my thumb re-located.

That cost my parents about $1,000 in 1982. I'll bet the same procedure
costs at least $10,000 now. My thumb was completely ripped out of place,
and the bulk of it was inside the palm of my hand, with the remainder
pointing toward my elbow. It works, which is pretty damn amazing, but it
doesn't work 100%. I lost some fractional range of motion, and I can't do
certain things without discomfort. Mostly this means I can't snap my
fingers on my right hand, which is not a huge loss.

Hmmm... Now there's food for thought. The surgeon who performed that
little miracle has been in prison for some time now for tax evasion...

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Donnie Vazquez wrote:

> What you saw was fat. The fingers don't have any muscle in them at all.
> Everything is attached by tendons to the muscles in your forearm with
> the exception of 1 muscle in your palm that controls part of your thumb.
> I was very surprised to learn that from my physical therapist after a
> nasty run in with the table saw.

No kidding? I'm surprised to learn that too!

The human body is a pretty amazing contraption, isn't it?

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

Renata wrote:

> Oooowwww! Sorry to hear that and I hope you got your behind to a
> doctor/hospital!

Nup. Just as well though. I finally found my new insurance card. I'd have
ended up paying 100% of the bill, and I sure don't have it.

It probably could have used stitches, but it's not that bad. Very clean.
The edges of the wound are easy to separate if I really want to, but since
I'm leaving it bandaged and medicated, it should be fine. No bleeding, no
signs of infection. I'm glad I didn't spend the money.


> Just thought you'd like to know what you're medical salve is also used
> for <eg>...

> effectiveness in clarification, and utility as a sludge dewatering
> agent. The chemical leaves no residual color, offers very good

Oh wonderful... I'm glad I put a sludge dewatering agent on my hand. :)

> Note the word "minor".

I guess it's all relative. If my finger had stopped working, I'd have gone
to the ER immediately. If I hadn't been able to stop the bleeding in a
reasonable period, I'd have gone to the ER immediately. In the end, I
think stitches would have made the difference between a big scar and a
little scar. I have lots of scars. One more won't hurt.

I appreciate your concern though. Same goes to all the rest of you who
encouraged me to do the prudent thing.

--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
> that?
>
> Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> DEFINITELY a chisel.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gack! Go to the emergency room, now! Most cuts like a chisel only have 60
to 90 minutes, before stitches won't do any good.

It would be the very rare insurance that would not cover an emergency room
visit ANYWHERE, if it is a true emergency. Take your card, receipt or
policy, anything with a number.

Get going.
--
Jim in NC

"George M. Kazaka" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Spit on it and pack it with sawdust,
> Works for me everytime<G>
>
> But if it is that bad Jim is right, at worst there is a 50.00 deductable.
> However do not tell them it was done last week, most emergency rooms will
> only declare it an emergency if it happened in the last 48 hours, they
will
> actually tell you, this is not an emergency go see your doctor.
> Yes they smile when they tell you this.
>
> So does my proctologist when he says "Bend Over Please"
>
> Just be carefull to keep it clean and don't let it get infected, this you
> will know without help
>
> George

Re-read the post. He said he had to take the rag off to see if he needed
stitches. Sounds like it just happened.

Let us know how it comes out, Michael. Good luck.
--
Jim in NC

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" wrote in message
> No it doesn't. Human muscle looks like beef. Cold dead humans smell like
cold
> chicken. Trust me on this.

At least it didn't look like a scene from "Kill Bill"!

Well, it'll feel better when it stops hurtin..
Jon

"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> George wrote:
>
> > About the last thing you want to do in today's legal climate is
> > obstetrics. Country docs give 'em magnesium sulfate and a pillow to
clamp
> > between their knees and call the medics to take 'em someplace else.
>
> Yeah, I'll bet. Delivering babies sure has gotten a lot more complicated
> since I was born. ;)
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>

Tis true. Family practice docs can not afford the malpractice insurance;
only the obgyn docs can, because they do it all the time.
--
Jim in NC

Silvan wrote:
> Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever
> notice that?


No it doesn't. Human muscle looks like beef. Cold dead humans smell like cold
chicken. Trust me on this.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com

Silvan wrote:

>> No it doesn't. Human muscle looks like beef. Cold dead humans
>> smell like cold chicken. Trust me on this.
>
> Maybe it wasn't muscle then? Fat? My fingers aren't very fat, but I
> guess there might be some layer in there. It looked for all the
> world like raw chicken breast.

Not trying to be gross... I grew up on a ranch and we did our own
butchering. I had one run-in with a sharp hog-wire barb wire fence that cut
my leg badly. I was able to observe, first hand, that the skin is an organ
about 1/4" thick that covers the muscle. The muscle underneath looked
*persactly* like beef & venison meat. (& twiching where it was cut at an
angle.) Though it was stiched shut it pulled apart before totally healed.
I can still feel it, right now, more than 20 years later.

-- Mark

Of course, I get more deducted off my paychecks up here in Alberta for my
"free" healthcare than when I spent a year down in Florida.

Clint

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:07:27 -0400, Silvan
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >Human muscle tissue looks just like raw chicken. Did anyone ever notice
> >that?
> >
> >Remember that "most dangerous tool" thread from awhile back? Chisel!
> >DEFINITELY a chisel.
> >
> >Gack. I'm going to have to unwrap this thing real soon now and see if I
> >need stitches.
> >
> >I would have gotten stitches already, but I have no freaking idea how to
use
> >my insurance. It has changed six times in seven years, and I haven't
used
> >it since the guy five doctors ago moved out of town. I have no idea who
> >has my records, who my designated "gatekeeper" is, or which hospital I'm
> >allowed to use, though it's a safe bet that I'm not permitted to be cared
> >for at the hospital 1/2 mile from my house, where I and both of my
children
> >were born.
> >
> >Piss, piss, piss! I hate the whole medical establishment in this
country!
>
> It sure is nice to live in Canada where you can go to any hospital or
> emergency room, don't have to even pay for the ambulance (unless its a
> car accident, then they really soak you because they expect the car
> insurance to make it up). Just make sure you have your provincial
> Health Card with you. No worrys.
> Ken, makin dust (not blood) in NS