I want to thank everyone who posts and opines on their table saw
choices. So many sources to reference - gotta love the internet.
Somebody posted and stated they felt more research, time and thought
went into buying their cabinet saw then their car. I'm in the same
boat.
I'm buying the General 650. Took the last 3 months and put my hands
on the Grizzly 1023SL, Powermatic 66 and Delta's Unisaw left tilt X5.
The General just spoke to me. Below is my little recap.
Grizzly: First saw I looked at. Made the pilgrimage to Muncy, PA
when I was on business in Phili. Drove away thinking - huh. Just
wasn't impressed - questioning whether any saw would 'wow' me and
maybe it was just the nature of the purchase. Fit and finish seemed
sketchy, even for a floor model. A common thread of all saws I looked
at and something you have to look past - likely these are assembled by
some kid without a lot of pride in workmanship. Almost every saw I
viewed had something assembled wrong, poorly or missing something.
Anyway - I actually had my heart set on the Grizzly until I looked at
it. I think like everyone else, I thought - man this thing is sure
priced right. I think it was at this point the made in Taiwan issue
began weighing in. It was a long fricking ride to view this saw -
kind of a disappointment.
Delta Unisaw: I saw this and the Powermatic next to each other and
was fortunate enough to have both the factory reps on hand at
7-Corners Hardware in St. Paul to ask stupid and loaded questions.
Delta is unquestionably a great saw. The Beisemeyer fence is solid,
has a Marathon motor, nice table top and the X5 gives you a choice of
free stuff - I imagine the mobile base would be the obvious choice.
And yes, it is the full size mobile base with support for the table
legs. After relenting to spend enough to get something that 'wowwed'
me, it initially boiled down to the Powermatic and the Delta. One
thing that sucks on the Delta is their "new age" motor cover. It took
the factory rep 5 minutes, yes 5, to get the cover off and when he did
I was certain something had broken. Horrible design. Perhaps a minor
issue in the big scheme of things. Overall nice saw at a reasonable
price. This became my new choice.
Powermatic: This thing left an impression. Pull the motor cover off
- which is also plastic and just a notch below Delta in design. Two
screws hold it in place. If the screws are loosened it can be lifted
up, twisted around and pulled off. Otherwise the screws need to be
removed completely. Where was I? Oh yeah - under the motor cover is
one monster trunnion and carriage assembly. This saw wowwed me. The
Baldar motor is monster - hell, everything is monster. Table top is
beautiful. Bottom line is this is a gorgous saw, albiet at a premium
price. Roughly $400 more than the Delta without the mobile base, saw
blade or a five year warranty. Tough sell to the Mrs.. You can buy a
new splitter and Dado King with money left over to buy some wood going
the Delta route.
General: Dealer network is limited. I live in Mpls. and would have
to drive to Des Moise to actually see one. All the Mpls. stores 'can
order one' but don't stock the 650. However, being the road warrior I
am, sitting in Salt Lake City I tracked down a local dealer and took a
look. This saw was originally kind of an afterthought - something to
eliminate to justify the Delta or Powermatic. I had called Canada and
spoke with the friendly French folk about the saw. Just the right
touch of arrogant pride. Baldar TEFC motor, available in a variety of
power configurations. The table - beautiful. The fence super solid.
The motor cover!!! Someone took the extra time and $5 to actually put
a usable cover on the saw. It has a nice latch and hinges back out of
the way. The trunnion/carriage assembly in on par with Powermatic -
monster. I've since spoke with several dealers who sell the General,
Powermatic and Delta. Most preferred the General - some thought the
saw was simply better than the Powermatic, some thought you got more
for your money. One thing was constant - they thought it was a better
saw than the Delta and about the same price. Granted you don't get
the X5 package - but I'm looking at the saw, not the marketing
package. This saw wowwed me in the way the Powermatic did and I
almost instantly knew - I've found my saw! This was a fun trip. Fit
and finish are beautiful - even if the assembly kid mounted the power
switch backwards.
The October issue of Wood Magazine, #151, also had a shootout of the
these and other saws. I discovered this after-the-fact and it only
served to comfort my choice. It came out on top in their opinion. I
have this article in .pdf format if anyone would like. Email me at
[email protected]. Figure it's the least I can do after all of
your help. Thanks to everyone.
Now... what to build?
On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 23:46:47 GMT, "Mark Jerde"
<[email protected]> wrote:
|B a r r y wrote:
|
|> A Subaru dealer once told me that they lost several sales due to
|> Subaru's small cup holders. Cup holder? I hold my beer between my
|> legs! <G>
|
|My 1995 Viagra^H^H^H^H^HFirebird has but a single cup holder. ;-) SWMBO
|decreed future "family" vehicles shall have a minimum of two for the front
|seat passengers.
|
|I doubt a C5 Vette would qualify as a family vehicle anyway, IF I can find
|one I fit in... ;-)
Passe. You want a C6. Or a GTO for a "family" car. If you can find
one. I went to the dealer in Dec and they promised to call when the
first one arrived. Never heard from them.
'Course my GM retiree discount doesn't apply nor does GM Card savings.
Guess I'll stick with my LS-1 Camaro SS.
"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> what's up with the motor cover?? Mine comes off in 3 seconds, with a
> little rap on the edge of it. It is retained with 4 spring clips. it's
> about 2 years old.
You people and your new saws.
SH - my 1950 uneesaw has never seen a motor cover.
>
my general 650 arrived just yesterday. after tearing it off of the
pallet and cleaning it a bit (not much, no cosmoline required), i
whipped out my TS Aligner and took a peek.
the arbor had exactly zero runout. literally, i couldn't get the needle
to move. same with the flange - flat, true.
i did, however, notice that the long fence rails are not straight. they
both have bows, which surprised me. but... i think that's not a
big deal. we'll see.
today i run my wires. i got the 5 HP motor, so i'm putting it on a
40-amp breaker.
haven't taken the excalibur table out of the box yet. to fit that, i
have to cut down the fence rails, and i don't want to mess with that
yet. plus, don't have a chop saw.
suggestions on any of this?
enjoy your general.
---- dz
MN Guy wrote:
> I want to thank everyone who posts and opines on their table saw
> choices. So many sources to reference - gotta love the internet.
> Somebody posted and stated they felt more research, time and thought
> went into buying their cabinet saw then their car. I'm in the same
> boat.
>
> I'm buying the General 650. Took the last 3 months and put my hands
> on the Grizzly 1023SL, Powermatic 66 and Delta's Unisaw left tilt X5.
> The General just spoke to me. Below is my little recap.
>
> Grizzly: First saw I looked at. Made the pilgrimage to Muncy, PA
> when I was on business in Phili. Drove away thinking - huh. Just
> wasn't impressed - questioning whether any saw would 'wow' me and
> maybe it was just the nature of the purchase. Fit and finish seemed
> sketchy, even for a floor model. A common thread of all saws I looked
> at and something you have to look past - likely these are assembled by
> some kid without a lot of pride in workmanship. Almost every saw I
> viewed had something assembled wrong, poorly or missing something.
> Anyway - I actually had my heart set on the Grizzly until I looked at
> it. I think like everyone else, I thought - man this thing is sure
> priced right. I think it was at this point the made in Taiwan issue
> began weighing in. It was a long fricking ride to view this saw -
> kind of a disappointment.
>
> Delta Unisaw: I saw this and the Powermatic next to each other and
> was fortunate enough to have both the factory reps on hand at
> 7-Corners Hardware in St. Paul to ask stupid and loaded questions.
> Delta is unquestionably a great saw. The Beisemeyer fence is solid,
> has a Marathon motor, nice table top and the X5 gives you a choice of
> free stuff - I imagine the mobile base would be the obvious choice.
> And yes, it is the full size mobile base with support for the table
> legs. After relenting to spend enough to get something that 'wowwed'
> me, it initially boiled down to the Powermatic and the Delta. One
> thing that sucks on the Delta is their "new age" motor cover. It took
> the factory rep 5 minutes, yes 5, to get the cover off and when he did
> I was certain something had broken. Horrible design. Perhaps a minor
> issue in the big scheme of things. Overall nice saw at a reasonable
> price. This became my new choice.
>
> Powermatic: This thing left an impression. Pull the motor cover off
> - which is also plastic and just a notch below Delta in design. Two
> screws hold it in place. If the screws are loosened it can be lifted
> up, twisted around and pulled off. Otherwise the screws need to be
> removed completely. Where was I? Oh yeah - under the motor cover is
> one monster trunnion and carriage assembly. This saw wowwed me. The
> Baldar motor is monster - hell, everything is monster. Table top is
> beautiful. Bottom line is this is a gorgous saw, albiet at a premium
> price. Roughly $400 more than the Delta without the mobile base, saw
> blade or a five year warranty. Tough sell to the Mrs.. You can buy a
> new splitter and Dado King with money left over to buy some wood going
> the Delta route.
>
> General: Dealer network is limited. I live in Mpls. and would have
> to drive to Des Moise to actually see one. All the Mpls. stores 'can
> order one' but don't stock the 650. However, being the road warrior I
> am, sitting in Salt Lake City I tracked down a local dealer and took a
> look. This saw was originally kind of an afterthought - something to
> eliminate to justify the Delta or Powermatic. I had called Canada and
> spoke with the friendly French folk about the saw. Just the right
> touch of arrogant pride. Baldar TEFC motor, available in a variety of
> power configurations. The table - beautiful. The fence super solid.
> The motor cover!!! Someone took the extra time and $5 to actually put
> a usable cover on the saw. It has a nice latch and hinges back out of
> the way. The trunnion/carriage assembly in on par with Powermatic -
> monster. I've since spoke with several dealers who sell the General,
> Powermatic and Delta. Most preferred the General - some thought the
> saw was simply better than the Powermatic, some thought you got more
> for your money. One thing was constant - they thought it was a better
> saw than the Delta and about the same price. Granted you don't get
> the X5 package - but I'm looking at the saw, not the marketing
> package. This saw wowwed me in the way the Powermatic did and I
> almost instantly knew - I've found my saw! This was a fun trip. Fit
> and finish are beautiful - even if the assembly kid mounted the power
> switch backwards.
>
> The October issue of Wood Magazine, #151, also had a shootout of the
> these and other saws. I discovered this after-the-fact and it only
> served to comfort my choice. It came out on top in their opinion. I
> have this article in .pdf format if anyone would like. Email me at
> [email protected]. Figure it's the least I can do after all of
> your help. Thanks to everyone.
>
> Now... what to build?
yeah. i got the large excalibur. and i will definitely post when i get
it set up.
i can tell you that on first inspection, the quality of the table itself
looks excellent.
i'm suddenly busy with other work, so may be a week or so before i get
it set up.
--- dz
Upscale wrote:
> "David Zaret" <news@__REMOVE__zaret.com> wrote in message
> news:4049DF6B.7040303@__REMOVE__zaret.com...
>
>>haven't taken the excalibur table out of the box yet. to fit that, i
>>have to cut down the fence rails, and i don't want to mess with that
>>yet. plus, don't have a chop saw.
>
>
> Is that an Excalibur cross-cut sliding table that attaches to the tablesaw?
> I'll be interested to hear your comments on it's operation when you get it
> set up.
>
>
On Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:35:30 -0700, "GeeDubb" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Hey, bottled beer fits in those small Subaru cup holders. Just say no to
>cans! I always wear shorts so cold beer doesn't go well between the
>legs......
>
>Gary
I ALWAYS drink bottled beer, preferably a Magic Hat, Otter Creek, or
Ipswich product. Subie's cup holders are too short, and the bottle
spills. The dashboard cupholder on my Outback is a bit high on the
dash for, ahem, privacy.
The other night I was driving on I-91, on the way to a Hartford
Wolfpack game. I passed a mid-60's Ford Comet that was actually in
decent shape for 40 year old car. The driver had a half-full "40"
sitting on the dash! <G> I thought it was funny that the driver
never thought, or didn't care, that the car itself is going to make
people look at it.
Barry
just keeping up with the times! :) (sort of...can NEVER have the newest
of anything, for more than 3 weeks)
dave
Slowhand wrote:
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>what's up with the motor cover?? Mine comes off in 3 seconds, with a
>>little rap on the edge of it. It is retained with 4 spring clips. it's
>>about 2 years old.
>
>
> You people and your new saws.
> SH - my 1950 uneesaw has never seen a motor cover.
>
>
>
B a r r y wrote:
> A Subaru dealer once told me that they lost several sales due to
> Subaru's small cup holders. Cup holder? I hold my beer between my
> legs! <G>
My 1995 Viagra^H^H^H^H^HFirebird has but a single cup holder. ;-) SWMBO
decreed future "family" vehicles shall have a minimum of two for the front
seat passengers.
I doubt a C5 Vette would qualify as a family vehicle anyway, IF I can find
one I fit in... ;-)
-- Mark
what's up with the motor cover?? Mine comes off in 3 seconds, with a
little rap on the edge of it. It is retained with 4 spring clips. it's
about 2 years old.
dave
MN Guy wrote:
> me, it initially boiled down to the Powermatic and the Delta. One
> thing that sucks on the Delta is their "new age" motor cover. It took
> the factory rep 5 minutes, yes 5, to get the cover off and when he did
> I was certain something had broken. Horrible design. Perhaps a minor
> issue in the big scheme of things. Overall nice saw at a reasonable
> price. This became my new choice.
"David Zaret" <news@__REMOVE__zaret.com> wrote in message
news:4049DF6B.7040303@__REMOVE__zaret.com...
> haven't taken the excalibur table out of the box yet. to fit that, i
> have to cut down the fence rails, and i don't want to mess with that
> yet. plus, don't have a chop saw.
Is that an Excalibur cross-cut sliding table that attaches to the tablesaw?
I'll be interested to hear your comments on it's operation when you get it
set up.
Slowhand wrote:
>"Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>
>
>>what's up with the motor cover?? Mine comes off in 3 seconds, with a
>>little rap on the edge of it. It is retained with 4 spring clips. it's
>>about 2 years old.
>>
>>
>
>You people and your new saws.
>SH - my 1950 uneesaw has never seen a motor cover.
>
>
>
>
>
The problem with the 1950 Unisaw, is that it didn't come with the cup
holder option.
"B a r r y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 05 Mar 2004 14:09:53 EST, Mark and Kim Smith
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >The problem with the 1950 Unisaw, is that it didn't come with the cup
> >holder option.
>
> A Subaru dealer once told me that they lost several sales due to
> Subaru's small cup holders. Cup holder? I hold my beer between my
> legs! <G>
>
> Barry
Hey, bottled beer fits in those small Subaru cup holders. Just say no to
cans! I always wear shorts so cold beer doesn't go well between the
legs......
Gary
Morris Dovey wrote:
> Mark and Kim Smith wrote:
>
>> Slowhand wrote:
>>
>>> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> what's up with the motor cover?? Mine comes off in 3
>>>> seconds, with a little rap on the edge of it. It is
>>>> retained with 4 spring clips. it's about 2 years old.
>>>
>>>
>>> You people and your new saws. SH - my 1950 uneesaw has never
>>> seen a motor cover.
>>>
>> The problem with the 1950 Unisaw, is that it didn't come with
>> the cup holder option.
>
>
> I'm partial to the power cupholder on my computer. When I'm done with
> it all I need to do is give it a nudge and it puts itself away. Damn
> fine piece of technology - it even provides space to store that
> plastic coaster the folks at AOL sent me...
I'm just glad we finally have these options. The only one that didn't
work so well was the cup holder on my 3hp router. It wouldn't swivel
when I went off horizontal.
Those AOL coasters also work well when used as an extremely thin kerf
blade. Good for cleaning up dado's.
the General seems to say "solid", doesn't it. I've just read FWW 167 and the
General was the pick of the contractor saws too. Interestingly, the
Powermatic did poorly - overpriced and out of adjustment.
--
Greg
"MN Guy" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I want to thank everyone who posts and opines on their table saw
> choices. So many sources to reference - gotta love the internet.
> Somebody posted and stated they felt more research, time and thought
> went into buying their cabinet saw then their car. I'm in the same
> boat.
<snip>
Mark and Kim Smith wrote:
> Slowhand wrote:
>
>> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> what's up with the motor cover?? Mine comes off in 3
>>> seconds, with a little rap on the edge of it. It is
>>> retained with 4 spring clips. it's about 2 years old.
>>
>> You people and your new saws. SH - my 1950 uneesaw has never
>> seen a motor cover.
>>
> The problem with the 1950 Unisaw, is that it didn't come with
> the cup holder option.
I'm partial to the power cupholder on my computer. When I'm done
with it all I need to do is give it a nudge and it puts itself
away. Damn fine piece of technology - it even provides space to
store that plastic coaster the folks at AOL sent me...
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto, Iowa USA
On 5 Mar 2004 09:14:47 -0800, [email protected] (MN Guy) wrote:
>
>I'm buying the General 650. Took the last 3 months and put my hands
>on the Grizzly 1023SL, Powermatic 66 and Delta's Unisaw left tilt X5.
>The General just spoke to me. Below is my little recap.
You and I speak the same language. I used the exact same phrase
describing why I chose the 650. <G>
>The motor cover!!! Someone took the extra time and $5 to actually put
>a usable cover on the saw. It has a nice latch and hinges back out of
>the way.
The latch reminds me of the hood latches on my Jeep Wrangler or a
tractor trailer.
My General has been fantastic. The wooddorking school where I take
classes has the Jet and a late model Unisaw side by side, and my buddy
has a PM66. After a decent amount of time on all four, I would
easily buy the General again. I think all four are excellent tools,
but the difference is in the small details. One of the differences
that I often notice is the flat out smoothness and lack of backlash in
the hand wheels. Sweeeeet!
Have fun!
Barry
On 05 Mar 2004 14:09:53 EST, Mark and Kim Smith
<[email protected]> wrote:
>The problem with the 1950 Unisaw, is that it didn't come with the cup
>holder option.
A Subaru dealer once told me that they lost several sales due to
Subaru's small cup holders. Cup holder? I hold my beer between my
legs! <G>
Barry
"MN Guy" wrote in message
> me, it initially boiled down to the Powermatic and the Delta. One
> thing that sucks on the Delta is their "new age" motor cover.
Hmmm ...wonder if they have changed the cover? The one on my UniSaw (not the
X5) comes off in about two seconds.
That said, I don't think you will go wrong with your choice.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/28/04
"Slowhand" wrote in message
>
> "Bay Area Dave" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > what's up with the motor cover?? Mine comes off in 3 seconds, with a
> > little rap on the edge of it. It is retained with 4 spring clips. it's
> > about 2 years old.
>
> You people and your new saws.
> SH - my 1950 uneesaw has never seen a motor cover.
Why, you're so underprivileged with that old thing you don't know what your
missing.
Mine own Uni, about three years old, has not one, but TWO (count'em) TWO,
miter gauge holders built right into its handy dandy "motor cover". AND,
were you to feed your hounds "free choice", turned over on its side, it
would hold about 100 lb of dog chow ... so eatcher heart out!
... 'course said "motor cover", being engineered entirely for profit, is
built JUST on that thin edge of being strong enough to be called a "cover"
and still be one.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 2/28/04