Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it
can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take
it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater
ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my
house...
Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
Nick B
"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Jet A = Kerosene = Heating Oil = Diesel Fuel
>
> It's all basically the same stuff with different color dies and tax rates;
at
> least that's my theory.
Close, but not the same. Jet and Kero are lighter. Diesel may give you
wick and mantle problems but I don't have real experience with it.
C wrote:
>
> On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:40:42 +0000, Nick Bozovich wrote:
>
> > Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> > pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
> >
> > I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it
> > can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take
> > it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> > isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> > tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
> >
> > What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater
> > ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my
> > house...
> >
> > Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Nick B
>
> If your heating device has an open flame, it is best to have one where you
> can vent to the outdoors. CO (Carbon monoxide) is odorless and kills.
> Even if you say your place is not airtight, there can be sufficient
> buildup of the gas to cause headache and to affect your ability to think.
> If you were to install a CO detector, it'd most likely be going off
> constantly.
>
> $114 seems like a deal... Why not take the money you would spend on a 911
> call to the ER and put it toward a good heater, one which is properly
> vented? You would most likely have money left over to buy some nice tools.
> Take the money your frau would spend on a funderal, and you perhaps
> outfi the entire shop.
>
> Woodworking is a great hobby, but only if one is around long enough to
> enjoy it. Be safe.
Gees, I hope no shop heater is that expensive. Last one I
paid for was about $400 for the ambulance plus $350 for the
emergency room. Then there was x-rays and two doctors.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:40:42 +0000, Nick Bozovich wrote:
>
... snip
> > I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it
> > can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take
> > it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> > isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> > tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
> >
> > What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater
> > ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my
> > house...
> >
... snip
>
>
> If your heating device has an open flame, it is best to have one where you
> can vent to the outdoors. CO (Carbon monoxide) is odorless and kills.
> Even if you say your place is not airtight, there can be sufficient
> buildup of the gas to cause headache and to affect your ability to think.
> If you were to install a CO detector, it'd most likely be going off
> constantly.
>
> $114 seems like a deal... Why not take the money you would spend on a 911
> call to the ER and put it toward a good heater, one which is properly
> vented? You would most likely have money left over to buy some nice tools.
> Take the money your frau would spend on a funderal, and you perhaps
> outfi the entire shop.
>
> Woodworking is a great hobby, but only if one is around long enough to
> enjoy it. Be safe.
>
Not to rain on a perfectly good sky is falling, we're all gonna die
rant, but you know, these heaters he is referencing are being sold for
in-home use and are certified by various agencies as safe for indoor
use. These systems are UL listed and have been checked by the CPSC.
Check out <http://www.kerosun.com/products/portableheaters/DC-90.mv> for
a look at the CPSC recommended CO production vs. what Kerosun and other
heaters produce. Even though the other heaters do produce somewhat more
than the recommended level, 25 ppm is still not a problem: from
<http://www.ee.washington.edu/research/microtech/cam/PROCESSES/PDF%
20FILES/Toxicity.pdf>:
Example: carbon monoxide, CO
hemotoxin; combines with hemoglobin 300X more readily than O2
TLV = 100 ppm; body can tolerate 0.01 % in air
@ 1000 ppm (0.1 %) causes headache and nausea
@ 10,000 ppm (1.0 %) fatal to adults in 1 min.
So, with adequate ventilation, such as the OP indicated he had in his
garage, even an older model heater will be 1/4 what the body can
tolerate.
Nope, but I know someone who has an gas fired infrared heating tube (
Radiant heat) in his 24' x 26' shop and it is always comfy and warm in
there. Even when it is - 30 celcius. All told I think it cost him $1000
cdn. but would be worth it. When I build my garage I will be putting one
in. Is cheaper on gas than a real furnace, so he tells me, and it vents
directly out the garage wall. No fumes, no worries about fire. I was there
a couple of times in the winter last year when it was in the triple digits
below zero and when he fired it up the whole space was toasty warm in about
10 minutes.
John V
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says
it
> can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I
take
> it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
> What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the
heater
> ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention
my
> house...
>
> Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
>
> Nick B
>
>
Nick Bozovich said:
>Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
>pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
>I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it
>can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take
>it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
>isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
>tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
>What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater
>ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my
>house...
>
>Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
I use a 23,000 BTU kerosene heater in the garage, which is nowhere
close to airtight, so I am not as concerned about CO as I would be if
it were fully weatherstripped. It works fine. In only emits a
noticeable smell when shutting down, running out of fuel, or set at a
very low setting. Apparently they are optimized for a certain
exposure of wick. It will get a 2 car garage so hot on high, that
you'll sweat. I am paranoid about using it, however. I don't leave
it burning unattended, and it is placed well away from all materials
and walls, etc. It's quiet, of course, but takes one to two hours to
heat a leaky garage from 20F to 70F. I bought it for the piece of
mind of knowing that when the power goes off during an ice storm, we
would have an emergency source of heat. Kerosene runs $1.10 gal in
the rural areas, but it is impossible to find in the city. The BORG
wants $27 for a 5 gallon can.
I have used it for 3 winters, and it has needed little maintenance. I
was shocked at this, because I expected to have to clean the wick and
replace the ignitor every year. So far, nothing has been needed. I
tear it down, inspect it, and reassemble. Good to go. I would NOT
use it in a home without copious amounts of ventilation, around
children or pets, or those lacking in common sense.
FWIW,
Greg G.
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> Tom Kohlman wrote:
> > I use a kero 60,000 btu "bullet" type in my shop (garage). I like the
> > fact that it is self-contained and quite portable (no propane tank
> > and hose to wrestle with).
>
>
> I've got one of those too... been using it for two years to heat the garage when
> I just can't stand it anymore. Last night I ran out of kerosene so I went out
> and bought some diesel fuel instead. I figure it may smell a little different
> possibly; certainly I paid more for diesel than I would have paid for kerosene,
> but it should be safe enough. I just didn't feel like wandering all over town
> looking for a place that sells kerosene at that hour.
>
> Jet A = Kerosene = Heating Oil = Diesel Fuel
>
> It's all basically the same stuff with different color dies and tax rates; at
> least that's my theory. If I'm wrong, I'll stop posting here and assume my
> place in the morning headlines.
>
>
It'll work, my dad did that with his bullet heaters in the barn.
However, and it's a big however, diesel smokes way more than kerosene,
and seemed to plug the jets and filter faster than using real kerosene.
It may also take a while to get those affects out of the heater after
you've burned diesel.
>
>
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 16:13:47 GMT, Reyd Dorakeen <[email protected]> wrote:
>woodstoves have several uses, why not try one of those?
>>
>>
wood heat is great BUT you soon find that you have no scrap wood in
the shop for small projects. skeez
woodstoves have several uses, why not try one of those?
>
> "Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Thanks for all the input guys - there's an electric baseboard type unit,
> and
>> and several types of propane units at the Borg and at Lowes - I think I'll
>> look at those and try to make a decision.
>>
>> Really appreciate all your help -
>>
>> Nick
>
> Electric is clean, no open flames, quiet. But for sheer power, you need
> some big wiring.
>
> 1,000 watts = 3400 Btu
>
> A small propane heater is 30,000 Btu or you will need almost 10,000 watts of
> power to equal that.
> Ed
>
>
really? then why can people use them in their houses? I was thinking more
the woodburning furnace type, with ducts that move the hot air, have it
somewhere else, convinient to the use of failed projects.
in article [email protected], Edwin Pawlowski at
[email protected] wrote on 1/9/04 10:50 AM:
>
> "Reyd Dorakeen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:BC241306.3737%[email protected]...
>> woodstoves have several uses, why not try one of those?
>>>
>
> National Fire Code, but I forget the specific regulation number.
>
> If the garage is attached to the house, it is illegal to have a woodstove in
> the garage. Embers can remain hot for days and potentially ignite fumes
> from gasoline.
>
> They do make for nice heat though, just watch for fumes from chemicals.
> Ed
>
>
Thanks for all the input guys - there's an electric baseboard type unit, and
and several types of propane units at the Borg and at Lowes - I think I'll
look at those and try to make a decision.
Really appreciate all your help -
Nick
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says
it
> can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I
take
> it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
> What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the
heater
> ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention
my
> house...
>
> Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
>
> Nick B
>
>
Hi Fred
Bullet type kero heater (at least mine) does not present a fire hazard even
with fine dust. The thing has a pretty strong internal fan that keeps the
majority of the dust away. The small amount of "drift" that catches within
the 18" of "serious heat" zone does burn away so proper placement of the
unit is important (but not rocket science...use your head). Been using mine
for two years without incident and love the amount of heat it produces in my
18'x20' sq ft uninsulated garage, especiallly on 0F nights like we have
tonight.
"Fred the Red Shirt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> > pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
> >
> > I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box
says it
> > can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I
take
> > it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount,
and
> > isn't harmful?
> > Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> > tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
> >
>
> It most certainly will produce CO2, so do you. ;-) There is always
> a small amount of CO2 in fresh air. So long as you burn the proper
> fuel, keep it clean and there is minimal ventilation then it will
> not produce a toxic concentration or significant CO (carbon monoxide)
> which is the highly toxic gas to be concerned about.
>
> They are nearly odorless, if you use high-grade kerosine.
>
> >
> > What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the
heater
> > ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention
my
> > house...
> >
> > Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be
appreciated.
> >
>
> Drills, saws, jointers, planers and most other power tools produce
> mostly chips, and little fine airborn dust. The danger with dust
> is if something suddenly throws a high concentration up into the air,
> for example if you turn on a shop vac and forgot to put the filter
> in it or a pile of sawdust in the frame of the table saw reaches
> the angle of repose and slides down into the belt and gets scattered.
>
> The simple solution is to use the heater to heat up the shop,
> shut it down before doing anything that can generate a lot of
> dust, like sweeping the floor, and when it gets too cold, open
> the door to vent the dust, turn the heater back on and take a
> break until the shop heats up again.
>
> --
>
> FF
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says
it
> can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc.
I had a new one of these and it smelled like shit and don't heat worth a
shit. I suggest you pass.
Frank
Nick Bozovich wrote:
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
I can imagine. It's 12 F here in Virginia. Last week it was 65 F. This
sucks, Beavis.
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says
> it can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I
> take it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount,
> and isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not
I would take any claim that it doesn't give off CO (carbon monoxide) with a
great deal of suspicion, and buy a carbon monoxide detector to be safe.
Usually they say something about needing a source of fresh air. It's also
my experience that drafts (say from walking by) can momentarily screw up
combustion, causing the emission of lovely black soot until the flame
settles back down.
Personally, I *hate* kerosene heaters. They *definitely* give off an odor,
and that odor gives me a headache. I have the same reaction to diesel
gasoline fumes too. Getting spilled fuel on my clothes makes for a
miserable day.
Spilled fuel, now *there's* something to worry about. Liquid fuel, open
flame. I was constantly worried about somehow knocking the heater over and
starting a conflagration.
I dumped my kero heater after about two days. (I got it free, so all I had
to buy was a fuel can and some kerosene.) I bought one of those Mr. Heater
9,000/15,000 BTU propane heaters at Lowe's. It was the only portable
propane heater they had that was rated for being run indoors, unvented. I
do smell some fumes from *that* too, but they don't bother me nearly as
much. The thing is (supposedly) safe to run inside a tent. My fuel tank
sits outside, and I turn the gas off when I'm not using the heater, so the
chances of a mishap are IMHO much reduced compared to liquid fuel.
> What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the
> heater ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to
> mention my house...
That's a big can o' worms. The doom and gloom people will tell you how
dangerous that is, and the "I throw cigarettes into puddles of gas" people
will tell you how unlikely it is that a dust explosion will ever happen.
Personally, I'm in the latter camp. I'm not much worried about developing a
high enough concentration of dust to cause an explosion. That's my
personal decision though, and is not meant to be taken as advice. Make up
your own mind.
Anyway, on the subject of heat generally, I say go for it! This is my first
year with heat in the shop. It's horribly wasteful of me to spend money
heating this uninsulated, leaky thing, but it sure is nice being able to
continue to work.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:40:42 GMT, "Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
>pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
>I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it
>can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take
>it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
>isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
>tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
>What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater
>ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my
>house...
>
>Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
>
>Nick B
>
There is some safety concerns with CO and fire. They will give an
odor if you let them go dry while burning. An electric heater is
safer and I say the extra cost in running it is worth it. You can
also use an infrared lamp.
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for all the input guys - there's an electric baseboard type unit,
and
> and several types of propane units at the Borg and at Lowes - I think I'll
> look at those and try to make a decision.
>
> Really appreciate all your help -
>
> Nick
Electric is clean, no open flames, quiet. But for sheer power, you need
some big wiring.
1,000 watts = 3400 Btu
A small propane heater is 30,000 Btu or you will need almost 10,000 watts of
power to equal that.
Ed
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it
> can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take
> it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
> What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater
> ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my
> house...
>
> Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
>
> Nick B
>
>
>
I've been using a Kerosun heater since 1995, first in my garage, then
in two subsequent shop buildings.
They do put out a slight odor, but if you keep them filled and make
sure they are burning and not smoldering, it (IMO) is pretty minimal.
Actually, for me it is somewhat nostalgic since Dad used kerosene
heaters to heat the dairy barn when I was growing up. Most of the smoke
and soot I get come when I shut off the heater.
As far as dust fires, if you have that much dust in the air that it
could combust, you have more serious problems than worrying about a dust
fire.
The advice to get a CO detector is probably good advice, just for
safety sake.
Several considerations:
1. Some of this depends upon the level of housekeeping you do in your
shop. If you have a lot of "stuff" piled all over the place, anything
with an open flame is probably a bad idea.
2. Kerosene is not a common commodity in some places (i.e. like Tucson);
I have thus far only found one source, they know they are the only
source and price accordingly ($3.75 per gallon this year). They also
only stock it for a certain part of the year, when I called around
Thanksgiving they did not yet have any in stock even though it was cool
enough to need a heater about then.
3. I chose to keep using kerosene rather than going to electric heat
because the amount of heat needed to warm up the shop was going to use a
significant number of the amps I have available from my shop's electric
service.
Thus far, neither in Tucson nor in Dallas did I encounter any
issues with excess water vapor from the heater causing any problems with
rust.
"Reyd Dorakeen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC24C010.38DE%[email protected]...
> really? then why can people use them in their houses? I was thinking more
> the woodburning furnace type, with ducts that move the hot air, have it
> somewhere else, convinient to the use of failed projects.
Because a house is not a garage. You don't park a car that may leak
gasoline in your house.
Just to clarify, I said woodstove, but the code is solid fuel burning
stoves. That includes coal, pellets, etc.
Ed
I use a kero 60,000 btu "bullet" type in my shop (garage). I like the fact
that it is self-contained and quite portable (no propane tank and hose to
wrestle with). It does throw off a rather nasty "poof" at start-up and
shut-down so I always open one of the doors an inch or two while it's
running (low clearance doors so a little at the bottom opens more than ample
space at the top). Leads to some heat loss but this unit more than makes up
for it to the point where I have to shut it off after a few minutes unless
it is really cold outside. The "serious" heat extends out only about 18"
from the front, the unit itself is wrapped in a steel shroud that is never
hot to the touch. The internal fan is forceful enough to keep most dust away
from the flame and I have never had an problem with blowing dust, although
it is clear that some fine dust does get ignited if I move it around with hi
velocity blower that I use from time to time to clean up. Overall I think
it is a good unit.
a lot of spaleaves more thanthe top of the door
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Nick Bozovich wrote:
>
> > Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> > pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I can imagine. It's 12 F here in Virginia. Last week it was 65 F. This
> sucks, Beavis.
>
> > I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box
says
> > it can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can
I
> > take it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited
amount,
> > and isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not
>
> I would take any claim that it doesn't give off CO (carbon monoxide) with
a
> great deal of suspicion, and buy a carbon monoxide detector to be safe.
> Usually they say something about needing a source of fresh air. It's also
> my experience that drafts (say from walking by) can momentarily screw up
> combustion, causing the emission of lovely black soot until the flame
> settles back down.
>
> Personally, I *hate* kerosene heaters. They *definitely* give off an
odor,
> and that odor gives me a headache. I have the same reaction to diesel
> gasoline fumes too. Getting spilled fuel on my clothes makes for a
> miserable day.
>
> Spilled fuel, now *there's* something to worry about. Liquid fuel, open
> flame. I was constantly worried about somehow knocking the heater over
and
> starting a conflagration.
>
> I dumped my kero heater after about two days. (I got it free, so all I
had
> to buy was a fuel can and some kerosene.) I bought one of those Mr.
Heater
> 9,000/15,000 BTU propane heaters at Lowe's. It was the only portable
> propane heater they had that was rated for being run indoors, unvented. I
> do smell some fumes from *that* too, but they don't bother me nearly as
> much. The thing is (supposedly) safe to run inside a tent. My fuel tank
> sits outside, and I turn the gas off when I'm not using the heater, so the
> chances of a mishap are IMHO much reduced compared to liquid fuel.
>
> > What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the
> > heater ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to
> > mention my house...
>
> That's a big can o' worms. The doom and gloom people will tell you how
> dangerous that is, and the "I throw cigarettes into puddles of gas" people
> will tell you how unlikely it is that a dust explosion will ever happen.
>
> Personally, I'm in the latter camp. I'm not much worried about developing
a
> high enough concentration of dust to cause an explosion. That's my
> personal decision though, and is not meant to be taken as advice. Make up
> your own mind.
>
> Anyway, on the subject of heat generally, I say go for it! This is my
first
> year with heat in the shop. It's horribly wasteful of me to spend money
> heating this uninsulated, leaky thing, but it sure is nice being able to
> continue to work.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it
> can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take
> it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> isn't harmful?
> Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
It most certainly will produce CO2, so do you. ;-) There is always
a small amount of CO2 in fresh air. So long as you burn the proper
fuel, keep it clean and there is minimal ventilation then it will
not produce a toxic concentration or significant CO (carbon monoxide)
which is the highly toxic gas to be concerned about.
They are nearly odorless, if you use high-grade kerosine.
>
> What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater
> ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my
> house...
>
> Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
>
Drills, saws, jointers, planers and most other power tools produce
mostly chips, and little fine airborn dust. The danger with dust
is if something suddenly throws a high concentration up into the air,
for example if you turn on a shop vac and forgot to put the filter
in it or a pile of sawdust in the frame of the table saw reaches
the angle of repose and slides down into the belt and gets scattered.
The simple solution is to use the heater to heat up the shop,
shut it down before doing anything that can generate a lot of
dust, like sweeping the floor, and when it gets too cold, open
the door to vent the dust, turn the heater back on and take a
break until the shop heats up again.
--
FF
Silvan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> Personally, I *hate* kerosene heaters. They *definitely* give off an odor,
> and that odor gives me a headache. I have the same reaction to diesel
> gasoline fumes too. Getting spilled fuel on my clothes makes for a
> miserable day.
>
Well OK, it depend a lot on your sensitivity. Some people can taste
the difference ebetween olive and other vegetable oils, I cannot.
> Spilled fuel, now *there's* something to worry about. Liquid fuel, open
> flame. I was constantly worried about somehow knocking the heater over and
> starting a conflagration.
>
This is one reason why it is critical to use the proper fuel. Kerosene
is combustible--flashpoint above 140 F (or is it 150, I don't remember).
The flashpoint of gasoline is much lower so that using gasoline in a
kerosine anything is a serious mistake.
Using a heavier or dirtier fuel will give you a dirtier exhaust and
can produce more CO.
--
FF
Nick,
I doubt you would generate that much dust in the air to ignite it but here's
what I did when my shop was in the garage. I would light the kero heater
and leave it on for about 30 min which would bring the garage up to around
50 deg when it was 0 outside. I have leakage around the doors too but it
stayed comfortable for about 2 hours. Take a coffee break, relight it and
shortly it's back up to the comfy level.
Kerosene does give off moisture so be sure your cast iron is protected.
Bob S.
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says
it
> can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I
take
> it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
> What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the
heater
> ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention
my
> house...
>
> Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
>
> Nick B
>
>
Tom Kohlman wrote:
> velocity blower that I use from time to time to clean up. Overall I think
> it is a good unit.
They have one of those in the shop at work. I'm glad I don't work in the
shop at work. It gives me a headache just standing in there long enough to
get my paycheck. It's also LOUD. Puts out a ton of heat though. I think
theirs is a 150,000 BTU model.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Fri, 09 Jan 2004 00:40:42 +0000, Nick Bozovich wrote:
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says it
> can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I take
> it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
> What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the heater
> ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention my
> house...
>
> Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
>
> Nick B
If your heating device has an open flame, it is best to have one where you
can vent to the outdoors. CO (Carbon monoxide) is odorless and kills.
Even if you say your place is not airtight, there can be sufficient
buildup of the gas to cause headache and to affect your ability to think.
If you were to install a CO detector, it'd most likely be going off
constantly.
$114 seems like a deal... Why not take the money you would spend on a 911
call to the ER and put it toward a good heater, one which is properly
vented? You would most likely have money left over to buy some nice tools.
Take the money your frau would spend on a funderal, and you perhaps
outfi the entire shop.
Woodworking is a great hobby, but only if one is around long enough to
enjoy it. Be safe.
Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> Jet A = Kerosene = Heating Oil = Diesel Fuel
>
> It's all basically the same stuff with different color dies and tax rates;
> at
> least that's my theory. If I'm wrong, I'll stop posting here and assume
> my place in the morning headlines.
I think you're wrong. I base this on what they smell like. Diesel and
heating oil are definitely the same, but I think kerosene/jet fuel is
different.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
"Reyd Dorakeen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BC241306.3737%[email protected]...
> woodstoves have several uses, why not try one of those?
> >
National Fire Code, but I forget the specific regulation number.
If the garage is attached to the house, it is illegal to have a woodstove in
the garage. Embers can remain hot for days and potentially ignite fumes
from gasoline.
They do make for nice heat though, just watch for fumes from chemicals.
Ed
CO2 is not the problem, CO is and I would assume that it emits it at a safe
level. I have yet to see a kerosene heater that didn't smell and would
rather and do use electric instead, even though it costs a little more.
--
If at first you don't succeed, you're not cut out for skydiving
"Nick Bozovich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry to dump another one on the group, but it's colder than (take your
> pick) here in PA, but I want to do some WW!!
>
> I was in the Borg today, and saw a keroscene heater - $114. The box says
it
> can be used in the garage, shop, family room, basement, etc. So, can I
take
> it that it doesn't put out CO2, or if it does, it's a limited amount, and
> isn't harmful? Do they give off an odor?. My shop (garage) is not air
> tight, there's some fresh air coming in, so I have some ventilation.
>
> What I really worry about is a dust fire - the flame or spark in the
heater
> ignites dust in the air and I turn into a crispy critter, not to mention
my
> house...
>
> Does anyone use one of these? Any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
>
> Nick B
>
>
Tom Kohlman wrote:
> I use a kero 60,000 btu "bullet" type in my shop (garage). I like the
> fact that it is self-contained and quite portable (no propane tank
> and hose to wrestle with).
I've got one of those too... been using it for two years to heat the garage when
I just can't stand it anymore. Last night I ran out of kerosene so I went out
and bought some diesel fuel instead. I figure it may smell a little different
possibly; certainly I paid more for diesel than I would have paid for kerosene,
but it should be safe enough. I just didn't feel like wandering all over town
looking for a place that sells kerosene at that hour.
Jet A = Kerosene = Heating Oil = Diesel Fuel
It's all basically the same stuff with different color dies and tax rates; at
least that's my theory. If I'm wrong, I'll stop posting here and assume my
place in the morning headlines.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
[email protected]
http://www.mortimerschnerd.com