Bracket Hardware from Lee Valley

<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 22:25:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> Anyway, the biggest complaint about Festool is the price.
>> So the post started with, bracket hardware looks really good, but it's
>> damned expensive.
>> Dave, the OP, owns quite a few Festool products. ;~)
>
> Actually, during my extended absence, my closest friends were looking
> after my apartment and my cat. I kind of expected to come back to my
> place and find some of those Festool products missing. None were, but
> I'd swear there was a little extra saw dust on some of them. :)
>

:-). Was your cat glad to see you?

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:54:23 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>krw wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>
>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>
>>> B***
>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>
>Evidently, not everyone regards his mind as his own. For 100 years, the
>"Indianapolis 500" was good enough. The accumulation of
>"marketing-bombardment" adds up. One can fairly ask, "Which drop of
>water caused the glass to overfill?". All I can say is that I am
>running fairly "close to full" these days. Funny this phenomenon seems
>to peak about every 4 years, in harmony with the political process... YMMV

Having been to the Speedway in Speedway and through out all public
areas of the track there have been marketing partners through out the
100 years.

Or you can ascribe that evil to Nascar the 800lbs gorilla.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> Similar "greed" at the source of both, no? Look at what the Internet
> has become between the 1990s and now. It's almost like walking
> downtown in NYC. I think that our "Inalienable Rights" might be
> updated to include some "protection from marketers". I find it a new
> source of "pollution". That you have currently found a good way to
> "hide" does not, to my mind, eliminate the societal problem. YMMV.

I agree that excessive advertising can be a form of pollution. I went to a
minor league ballgame where they were showing a commercial on the
scoreboard with the sound piped all through the ballpark. You can't get
away from it.

The only way to get rid of some of this advertising is to be proactive in
avoiding and complaining about it. Close websites that require you to
click through/off an ad before viewing the page, take points off of reviews
for obnoxious advertising. Ads aren't ever going to go away, but we can
make sure they're only in acceptable forms.

Puckdropper

Larry Blanchard <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 13:08:43 -0600, Swingman wrote:
>
>> Enjoyed that $9,513.75 that came out of the taxes that you
>> _personally_
>> paid since 2008 that went to bail out the second most government
>> regulated industry in existence, not to mention all that interest you
>> get on your savings, and the fees you get soaked with, eh?
>
> And perhaps you didn't notice that it was the *relaxation* of
> regulations that caused the banking/mortgage crisis?
>
> And a lack of regulation that resulted in all those polluted Superfund
> sites? Competition didn't seem to have any effect there.
>
> A long time ago, Will Rogers said we had the best government money
> could buy. Nothing has changed.
>

What about things like the Staggers act? Regulation was sifleing the
railroads and relaxation of certain regulations allowed them to become
competitive and healthy.

Relaxing and implementing regulations is an ax. You can do surprisingly
good work with it, but you can also cut off the very thing you need to
survive.

Puckdropper

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>
>> Same here. I don't get a thrill watching a group of millionaires that
>> work for billionaires running around on a field.
> Thanks, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one not-watching!
>
> Bill

The most important game of the weekend was actually last night. Just a
mid-season hockey game between the Blackhawks and Stars.

I wonder if Doug Miller and the guy with the U of I e-mail (Len Lopez? I
can't remember his name right off) avoid the game too. We get enough of
us woodworkers avoiding the game and maybe we could meet somewhere like
Danville (halfway between Peoria and Indy) to avoid the game and talk
about woodworking.

If anyone's interested and willing to travel to the IL/IN border on 74
(Danville), speak up. If we get enough interest, maybe we'll set
something up next year.

Puckdropper

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:22:04 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>krw wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:54:23 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> krw wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>>>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>>>
>>>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>>>
>>>>> B***
>>>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>>>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>>> Evidently, not everyone regards his mind as his own. For 100 years, the
>>> "Indianapolis 500" was good enough. The accumulation of
>>> "marketing-bombardment" adds up. One can fairly ask, "Which drop of
>>> water caused the glass to overfill?". All I can say is that I am
>>> running fairly "close to full" these days. Funny this phenomenon seems
>>> to peak about every 4 years, in harmony with the political process... YMMV
>>>
>> Bill, it's your choice to be offended. Really!
>I guess that rules out professional sports...

Really? Why? I don't choose to be offended by professional sports.
They can do whatever they want and pay whatever they want (it's not my
money). I ignore what I don't like and if it gets so overwhelming
that it's no longer worth the whole package, I don't watch.
Professional basketball got to that point decades back (and it has
nothing to do with ads).


>> I can't be bothered
>> by advertising. There are so many other things to devote my waking
>> time to (and so little of it). OK, the number of ads on TV does get
>> to me but they make this wonderful gizmo called the fast-forward
>> button. ;-)
>>

Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 1/30/2016 4:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> This bracket hardware looks really good, but it's damned expensive.
>>>
>>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=73945
>>>
>>
>>
>> Festool is expensive too. ;!)
>
> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam. I'm sure they have a web
> site. I think they even have a forum. It's sort of like if I visit
> yahoo.com, they bombard me with a big top ad. This post struck me just
> like that.
>
>
>>
>> It is good looking hardware though!
>
>

It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.

On 2/2/2016 1:47 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>
>>> Ads aren't ever going to go away, but we can
>>> make sure they're only in acceptable forms.
>>>
>>> Puckdropper
>
>
> Now that we have the general background layed out. Imagine B*** sitting
> down at his computer, to "get away from it all, or whatever", opening up
> his newsgroup reader, and reading in the first (actually second) message:
>
> Festool is expensive too. ;!)
>
> You can't make that stuff up!


Imagine L*** sitting down at his computer, to get away from it all, or
whatever, opening up his newsgroup reader, and reading 'B***'*" posts
and them still being totally OT with hardly ever anything related to
woodworking.

You can't make that up.

On 2/2/2016 9:27 AM, Bill wrote:

> Well, at least we've come full circle to where you may truly understand
> my first post to this thread. People seem to be in a
> policitically-minded mood. Perhaps its related to the Iowa caucuses. I
> Really like the Lee Valley catalog. And I like they way they tastefully
> send out a version several times a year, instead of emailing me perhaps
> twice a week like Rockler does. Even Harbor Freight uses a little
> restraint. CPO-Woodworking not so much.
>> .
>

Leon emails me at least twice a week to tell me about Festool products
and how he uses them. I've tried to unsubscribe but they just keep
coming. I think Festool pays 2¢ him for every email I open.

On 2/3/2016 3:01 PM, Kevin Miller wrote:
> On 02/03/2016 11:51 AM, Swingman wrote:
>
>> Jeezzus, you guys can run rabbit trails ...
>
> This is a woodworking newsgroup. Around here we follow rabbet trails.

Decided not to go there ... no telling where that would lead. ;)

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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/3/2016 2:26 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in

>> The problem, as you are experiencing, starts soon after you get
>> government involvement.
>>
>> Works briefly in your favor, then you idiots allow your elected
>> representatives to sell you out and you eventually get the phenomenon
>> know as "regulatory capture" ... always to the detriment of the
>> consumer.
>>
>> The banking and investment industry are perfect examples, as well as
>> cable and internet providers.
>
> This is kind of a naive view.

Jeezzus, you guys can run rabbit trails ...

Most here are well aware of the necessity for some form of "regulation",
what it entails, and the history thereof, and certainly don't need
preaching to in that regard.

My post specifically stated a reality of regulation in today's world,
that being "regulatory capture", perfectly manifested in the examples I
gave,

The only naivete exhibited thus far is in the disregard of that very
real phenomenon, and ignoring the subject totally in irrelevant epistles.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
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http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On 2/2/2016 12:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:51:50 -0600, Swingman wrote:
>
>> The banking and investment industry are perfect examples, as well as
>> cable and internet providers.
>
> And you assume they'd get better without regulation? What have you been
> smoking?
>
> Government has been defined, correctly in my opinion, as a "necessary
> evil". There's a reason why it's necessary - if you can't grasp that,
> you live in a fantasy world.
>
>


It is not so much the regulation being the problem as the entity that is
regulating it. So effectively the regulation is a wash at best, you
"get on paper" from the regulation and loose money from the
inefficiency, incompetency, bureaucracy, and corruption of the
regulator/enforcer.

It would be far better to be regulated by a private entity.

On 1/30/2016 5:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> This bracket hardware looks really good, but it's damned expensive.
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=73945
>

www.decksdirect.com Not cheap but cheaper

Lee Valley may not be able to buy it right with the Canadian dollar
right now.

On 2/2/2016 6:49 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

> And perhaps you didn't notice that it was the*relaxation* of regulations
> that caused the banking/mortgage crisis?

Reading comprehension with the term "regulatory capture"?

Look it up, learn something, and leave the fantasy world behind ... it's
reality.

--
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Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> krw wrote:
> > On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:04:17 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> krw wrote:
> >>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> [email protected] wrote:
> >>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
> >>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
> >>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
> >>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
> >>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
> >>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
> >>>> then I guess you can't relate.
> >>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
> >>>
> >>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
> >>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
> >>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
> >>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
> >>>>
> >>>> B***
> >>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
> >>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
> >> Just like our air and water quality, our animals and the earth. After we
> >> take everything we can and sell it to the highest bidder, enjoy.... Go
> >> to Flint, MI and get a drink of water...
> > Are you seriously comparing potentially toxic water to a little
> > advertising? Really?
>
> Similar "greed" at the source of both, no? Look at what the Internet
> has become between the 1990s and now. It's almost like walking downtown
> in NYC. I think that our "Inalienable Rights" might be updated to
> include some "protection from marketers". I find it a new source of
> "pollution". That you have currently found a good way to "hide" does
> not, to my mind, eliminate the societal problem. YMMV.

I do wonder what additional protections the Founders might have put in
the Constitution if they could see the modern world.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> >> krw wrote:
> >> You need government to
> >> infringe on other's rights, just to make your life worth living? Sad.
> >> *Really* sad!
>
> I'm not really thinking so much about me. I'm think what it will be like
> for people a generation or two down the road. We need to plant more
> trees, literally and spiritually.

You know that "literally" there are more trees in the US today than
there were in 1900?

> And by spiritually, I don't
> necessarily mean religion--I mean we need to quit teaching kids to shoot
> other people with guns.

We need to quit teaching them to rape other people with dicks and hit
other people with fists and knife other people with knives too.

Whenever I hear "gun violence" my immediate reaction is "Oh, I suppose
then that you think that all other kinds of violence are perfectly
acceptable".

We've been giving this message since the dawn of movies you know, with
the "cops and robbers" and "cowboys and Indians" and
superhero and villain" tropes--in all cases the message is "kill or maim
the bad guy".

> Watch the news. That said, I think more guns
> among law-abiding people would be better than fewer guns.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> Leon wrote:
> > On 2/2/2016 8:01 AM, Bill wrote:
> > Snip
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Yes. I can more than control myself. I don't have control over my
> >> environment, unless I choose to stay home and stay of the roads. If
> >> elected, I would make others respect the rights of others for a better
> >> environment. Almost always, where there is a conflict between man and
> >> nature, nature loses. I would try to change that. My values comes
> >> before my pocketbook and I have the documentation to prove it.
> >>
> > There are bigger problems that what you consider to be a problem. You
> > can't change human nature. If you were elected I suspect you would
> > not be handling real issues if you focused your time on trying to make
> > people respect each other.
>
> How about making corporations respect people?

Not gonna happen until we start making corporate executives respect
people. As long as nerdhood is the ticket to success that's not going
to happen--used to be we taught people to be team players, now we don't
unless they're "jocks".

> Maybe we need to give
> "corporate entities" some limits and guidelines.

We do. Go down to the library and look at the US Code sitting on the
shelf (don't read it online, look at it on a shelf--I want you to see
the physical size of it). Quite a lot of that deals with "corporate
entities".

> A received a notice
> from the bank today, a big bank, New Rule: Discrepancies concerning
> deposit slips may or may not be corrected, at the banks discretion, if
> the discrepancy is less than $10. Someone must have stayed up all night
> thinking of that new profit generating idea... I wonder which ones
> they will correct? Too much to ask for a bank to have to put the
> customer's money into his or her account?

A lot of that sort of thing could be easily fixed by requiring that any
contract or change in a contract, in order to be valid, must be accepted
actively and explicitly, not passively by continuing to use a service.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
says...
>
> J. Clarke wrote:
> >> A received a notice
> >> from the bank today, a big bank, New Rule: Discrepancies concerning
> >> deposit slips may or may not be corrected, at the banks discretion, if
> >> the discrepancy is less than $10. Someone must have stayed up all night
> >> thinking of that new profit generating idea... I wonder which ones
> >> they will correct? Too much to ask for a bank to have to put the
> >> customer's money into his or her account?
> > A lot of that sort of thing could be easily fixed by requiring that any
> > contract or change in a contract, in order to be valid, must be accepted
> > actively and explicitly, not passively by continuing to use a service.
> >
>
> Well, they added it to their "terms of service" (I think). I may
> inquire at the local branch if they are going to *notify* customers of
> the discrepancies found on the occasion that they keep the extra money.
>
> You can read the new policy at the top of the first page (paragraph 'A')
> below (you also be able to see that it's a "new policy"):
>
> https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chasecom/en/checking/documents/deposit_account_agreement.pdf

Look on page 16:

"By maintaining your account after the effective date of any change, you
agree to the change."

On 2/1/2016 1:35 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 07:40:42 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>> :-). Was your cat glad to see you?
>
> Yup. She ws all over me for an hour and then was gone with a 'sniff'.
> Twice though, my friends brought her over to see me. That was nice.
>


Good to hear you still belong to her. ;~)

On 2/2/2016 6:49 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 13:08:43 -0600, Swingman wrote:
>
>> Enjoyed that $9,513.75 that came out of the taxes that you _personally_
>> paid since 2008 that went to bail out the second most government
>> regulated industry in existence, not to mention all that interest you
>> get on your savings, and the fees you get soaked with, eh?
>
> And perhaps you didn't notice that it was the *relaxation* of regulations
> that caused the banking/mortgage crisis?

And all this time we thought it was the government guaranteeing loans to
those that absolutely did not qualify but because they could not keep up
with the Jones the government said give it to them anyway.


>
> And a lack of regulation that resulted in all those polluted Superfund
> sites? Competition didn't seem to have any effect there.
>
> A long time ago, Will Rogers said we had the best government money could
> buy. Nothing has changed.
>


And again, let the private sector do the policing because no one is
proud of the results when the government jumps in the deep end.

On 2/2/2016 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/2/2016 9:27 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> Well, at least we've come full circle to where you may truly understand
>> my first post to this thread. People seem to be in a
>> policitically-minded mood. Perhaps its related to the Iowa caucuses. I
>> Really like the Lee Valley catalog. And I like they way they tastefully
>> send out a version several times a year, instead of emailing me perhaps
>> twice a week like Rockler does. Even Harbor Freight uses a little
>> restraint. CPO-Woodworking not so much.
>>> .
>>
>
> Leon emails me at least twice a week to tell me about Festool products
> and how he uses them. I've tried to unsubscribe but they just keep
> coming. I think Festool pays 2¢ him for every email I open.

And, this is where all your money goes ...

https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff?noredirect=1#6246792558509700754

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On 1/31/2016 8:37 PM, Bill wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>
> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
> then I guess you can't relate. No doubt our individual tolerance levels
> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>
> B***
>


Having an off day Bill?

Anyway, the biggest complaint about Festool is the price.

So the post started with, bracket hardware looks really good, but it's
damned expensive.

Dave, the OP, owns quite a few Festool products. ;~)



And FWIW I will continue to make comments about Festool products when I
feel like doing so. I know that others appreciate the information
whether you do or not.

Now get out in your shop/garage and build something and we need
pictures! ;~)

On 02/03/2016 11:51 AM, Swingman wrote:

> Jeezzus, you guys can run rabbit trails ...

This is a woodworking newsgroup. Around here we follow rabbet trails.

...Kevin
--
Kevin Miller
Juneau, Alaska
http://www.alaska.net/~atftb
"In the history of the world, no one has ever washed a rented car."
- Lawrence Summers

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> krw wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:

>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year,
>>> the "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.

>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or
>> perhaps the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>
> Evidently, not everyone regards his mind as his own. For 100 years,
> the "Indianapolis 500" was good enough.

Actually, no. The race you speak of has only been called
the Indianapolis 500 since 1981 (usually "the Indianapolis
500 presented by Firestone" or something like that on TV).
Prior to 1981 it was officially called the International
Sweepstakes (sometimes the International 500 Mile Sweepstakes).

Amoung auto racing folk, it's just called the 500.

John

(recognizing that that's irrelevant to Bill's point, but we
may as well be accurate)

Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Corporations generally have a right to do business as they see fit ...
> or in a manner, no matter how stupid or ill advised, that they can get
> away.
>
> The customer only has a right to take their business elsewhere, so
> far.
>
> The problem, as you are experiencing, starts soon after you get
> government involvement.
>
> Works briefly in your favor, then you idiots allow your elected
> representatives to sell you out and you eventually get the phenomenon
> know as "regulatory capture" ... always to the detriment of the
> consumer.
>
> The banking and investment industry are perfect examples, as well as
> cable and internet providers.

This is kind of a naive view. It fails in two ways, one because
it ignores the reality of monopolies and collusion (so that it's
not always possible to "take one's business elsewhere"); and the
other because a business's profit motive generally doesn't align
with the public's desire for a clean and safe environment.

In an ideal world, regulation would exist only in so far as is
necessary to provide "an even playing field", where competing
businesses all had the same safety and enviromental standards
(so none had an advantage), and all truely did compete (so the
customer had a fair choice). In practice, governments are not
very good at identifying those boundries, and inertia tends to
keep regulations in place long after the need for them has
passed (by the same token, inertia tends to prevent regulation
being put in place until well after the need first appears -
something of a closing the barn door after the horse has left
effect).

Anyone interested in the subject would be well advised to
study the history of railroad regulation (since that was the
first industry regulated) from the creation of the ICC to
the Staggers act of 1980 that deregulated it (about 30 years
after the need for regulation had ended).

John

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.

Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)

On 1/30/2016 4:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> This bracket hardware looks really good, but it's damned expensive.
>
> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=73945
>


Festool is expensive too. ;!)

It is good looking hardware though!

On 2/7/2016 6:22 PM, Bill wrote:
> Re: Advertising
>
> No Superbowl here tonight (for the sake of the principle's we have
> discussed). I'll miss the extra "sandwich"... : )
>
> Bill


Same here. I don't get a thrill watching a group of millionaires that
work for billionaires running around on a field.

Oh, be careful what ypu post. If you use the term Superbowl wrongly
they will come after you too.

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:54:23 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>krw wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>
>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>
>>> B***
>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>
>Evidently, not everyone regards his mind as his own. For 100 years, the
>"Indianapolis 500" was good enough. The accumulation of
>"marketing-bombardment" adds up. One can fairly ask, "Which drop of
>water caused the glass to overfill?". All I can say is that I am
>running fairly "close to full" these days. Funny this phenomenon seems
>to peak about every 4 years, in harmony with the political process... YMMV
>
Bill, it's your choice to be offended. Really! I can't be bothered
by advertising. There are so many other things to devote my waking
time to (and so little of it). OK, the number of ads on TV does get
to me but they make this wonderful gizmo called the fast-forward
button. ;-)

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 07:40:42 -0600, Leon <[email protected]> wrote:
>:-). Was your cat glad to see you?

Yup. She ws all over me for an hour and then was gone with a 'sniff'.
Twice though, my friends brought her over to see me. That was nice.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 22:25:32 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Anyway, the biggest complaint about Festool is the price.
>So the post started with, bracket hardware looks really good, but it's
>damned expensive.
>Dave, the OP, owns quite a few Festool products. ;~)

Actually, during my extended absence, my closest friends were looking
after my apartment and my cat. I kind of expected to come back to my
place and find some of those Festool products missing. None were, but
I'd swear there was a little extra saw dust on some of them. :)

On 2/2/2016 9:51 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 2/2/2016 9:03 AM, Bill wrote:
>> How about making corporations respect people? Maybe we need to give
>> "corporate entities" some limits and guidelines.
>
> Corporations generally have a right to do business as they see fit ...
> or in a manner, no matter how stupid or ill advised, that they can get
> away.
>
> The customer only has a right to take their business elsewhere, so far.
>
> The problem, as you are experiencing, starts soon after you get
> government involvement.

Precisely the uneducated running a machine that they are ill qualified
to do. Obama Care for example. If politicians and or management
government workers were worth anything they would have real jobs.

On 2/2/2016 12:17 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:51:50 -0600, Swingman wrote:
>
>> The banking and investment industry are perfect examples, as well as
>> cable and internet providers.
>
> And you assume they'd get better without regulation? What have you been
> smoking?
>
> Government has been defined, correctly in my opinion, as a "necessary
> evil". There's a reason why it's necessary - if you can't grasp that,
> you live in a fantasy world.

Enjoyed that $9,513.75 that came out of the taxes that you _personally_
paid since 2008 that went to bail out the second most government
regulated industry in existence, not to mention all that interest you
get on your savings, and the fees you get soaked with, eh?

"Fantasy world", indeed ...

--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:04:17 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>krw wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>
>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>
>>> B***
>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>
>Just like our air and water quality, our animals and the earth. After we
>take everything we can and sell it to the highest bidder, enjoy.... Go
>to Flint, MI and get a drink of water...

Are you seriously comparing potentially toxic water to a little
advertising? Really? Are you alright, Bill?

Leon wrote:
> On 1/30/2016 4:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> This bracket hardware looks really good, but it's damned expensive.
>>
>> http://www.leevalley.com/en/hardware/page.aspx?p=73945
>>
>
>
> Festool is expensive too. ;!)

I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam. I'm sure they have a web
site. I think they even have a forum. It's sort of like if I visit
yahoo.com, they bombard me with a big top ad. This post struck me just
like that.


>
> It is good looking hardware though!

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 17:37:07 -0500
[email protected] wrote:

> This bracket hardware looks really good, but it's damned expensive.

not sure if i have ever bought any hardware from them but usually it is
good stuff

i like their bench dogs

not to be confused with shop dogs


nice chisels and the planes look really nice

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)

If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
then I guess you can't relate. No doubt our individual tolerance levels
are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
"Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.

B***

krw wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>> then I guess you can't relate.
> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>
>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>
>> B***
> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)

Evidently, not everyone regards his mind as his own. For 100 years, the
"Indianapolis 500" was good enough. The accumulation of
"marketing-bombardment" adds up. One can fairly ask, "Which drop of
water caused the glass to overfill?". All I can say is that I am
running fairly "close to full" these days. Funny this phenomenon seems
to peak about every 4 years, in harmony with the political process... YMMV

Bill

krw wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>> then I guess you can't relate.
> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>
>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>
>> B***
> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)

Just like our air and water quality, our animals and the earth. After we
take everything we can and sell it to the highest bidder, enjoy.... Go
to Flint, MI and get a drink of water...

krw wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:54:23 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> krw wrote:
>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>>
>>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>>
>>>> B***
>>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>> Evidently, not everyone regards his mind as his own. For 100 years, the
>> "Indianapolis 500" was good enough. The accumulation of
>> "marketing-bombardment" adds up. One can fairly ask, "Which drop of
>> water caused the glass to overfill?". All I can say is that I am
>> running fairly "close to full" these days. Funny this phenomenon seems
>> to peak about every 4 years, in harmony with the political process... YMMV
>>
> Bill, it's your choice to be offended. Really!
I guess that rules out professional sports...


> I can't be bothered
> by advertising. There are so many other things to devote my waking
> time to (and so little of it). OK, the number of ads on TV does get
> to me but they make this wonderful gizmo called the fast-forward
> button. ;-)
>

krw wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:04:17 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> krw wrote:
>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>>
>>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>>
>>>> B***
>>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>> Just like our air and water quality, our animals and the earth. After we
>> take everything we can and sell it to the highest bidder, enjoy.... Go
>> to Flint, MI and get a drink of water...
> Are you seriously comparing potentially toxic water to a little
> advertising? Really?

Similar "greed" at the source of both, no? Look at what the Internet
has become between the 1990s and now. It's almost like walking downtown
in NYC. I think that our "Inalienable Rights" might be updated to
include some "protection from marketers". I find it a new source of
"pollution". That you have currently found a good way to "hide" does
not, to my mind, eliminate the societal problem. YMMV.

Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Similar "greed" at the source of both, no? Look at what the Internet
>> has become between the 1990s and now. It's almost like walking
>> downtown in NYC. I think that our "Inalienable Rights" might be
>> updated to include some "protection from marketers". I find it a new
>> source of "pollution". That you have currently found a good way to
>> "hide" does not, to my mind, eliminate the societal problem. YMMV.
> I agree that excessive advertising can be a form of pollution. I went to a
> minor league ballgame where they were showing a commercial on the
> scoreboard with the sound piped all through the ballpark. You can't get
> away from it.
>
> The only way to get rid of some of this advertising is to be proactive in
> avoiding and complaining about it. Close websites that require you to
> click through/off an ad before viewing the page, take points off of reviews
> for obnoxious advertising.

Yes. I once paid $20 for an "ad filter" for IE that did the same thing
that FireFox now does (for free). I considered it a well-spent $20 at
the time. Like you said, and as with electricity, it would be better
to deal with the problem closer to the source.

Bill


> Ads aren't ever going to go away, but we can
> make sure they're only in acceptable forms.
>
> Puckdropper

> Puckdropper wrote:
>
>> Ads aren't ever going to go away, but we can
>> make sure they're only in acceptable forms.
>>
>> Puckdropper


Now that we have the general background layed out. Imagine B*** sitting
down at his computer, to "get away from it all, or whatever", opening up
his newsgroup reader, and reading in the first (actually second) message:

Festool is expensive too. ;!)

You can't make that stuff up!

krw wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:34:52 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> krw wrote:
>>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:04:17 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> krw wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>>>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>>>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>>>>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>>>>
>>>>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>>>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>>>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>>>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B***
>>>>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>>>>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>>>> Just like our air and water quality, our animals and the earth. After we
>>>> take everything we can and sell it to the highest bidder, enjoy.... Go
>>>> to Flint, MI and get a drink of water...
>>> Are you seriously comparing potentially toxic water to a little
>>> advertising? Really?
>> Similar "greed" at the source of both, no?
> Absolutely *NOT*. You morally equate feeding one's family by running
> a grocery store with poisoning your neighbors for political gain.
> That, sir, is called "Moral Relativity" at its finest!
>
>> Look at what the Internet
>> has become between the 1990s and now.
> Hmm, in 1990 it was a toy. I can really make use of it now, and do.
>
>> It's almost like walking downtown
>> in NYC. I think that our "Inalienable Rights" might be updated to
>> include some "protection from marketers". I find it a new source of
>> "pollution". That you have currently found a good way to "hide" does
>> not, to my mind, eliminate the societal problem. YMMV.
> You aren't adult enough to control yourself?

Yes. I can more than control myself. I don't have control over my
environment, unless I choose to stay home and stay of the roads. If
elected, I would make others respect the rights of others for a better
environment. Almost always, where there is a conflict between man and
nature, nature loses. I would try to change that. My values comes
before my pocketbook and I have the documentation to prove it.


> You need government to
> infringe on other's rights, just to make your life worth living? Sad.
> *Really* sad!
>

krw wrote:
> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:22:04 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> krw wrote:
>>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:54:23 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> krw wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>>>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>>>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>>>>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>>>>
>>>>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>>>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>>>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>>>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> B***
>>>>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>>>>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>>>> Evidently, not everyone regards his mind as his own. For 100 years, the
>>>> "Indianapolis 500" was good enough. The accumulation of
>>>> "marketing-bombardment" adds up. One can fairly ask, "Which drop of
>>>> water caused the glass to overfill?". All I can say is that I am
>>>> running fairly "close to full" these days. Funny this phenomenon seems
>>>> to peak about every 4 years, in harmony with the political process... YMMV
>>>>
>>> Bill, it's your choice to be offended. Really!
>> I guess that rules out professional sports...
> Really? Why? I don't choose to be offended by professional sports.
> They can do whatever they want and pay whatever they want (it's not my
> money).

Why are you so preoccupied with money? I would not have let the
Superbowl happen last year. It would be nice if the NFL had ideals like
the PGA. You make a mistake on your scorecard and you lose <period>. It
would have set a nice example for the kids.


> I ignore what I don't like and if it gets so overwhelming
> that it's no longer worth the whole package, I don't watch.
> Professional basketball got to that point decades back (and it has
> nothing to do with ads).
>
>
>>> I can't be bothered
>>> by advertising. There are so many other things to devote my waking
>>> time to (and so little of it). OK, the number of ads on TV does get
>>> to me but they make this wonderful gizmo called the fast-forward
>>> button. ;-)
>>>

>> krw wrote:
>> You need government to
>> infringe on other's rights, just to make your life worth living? Sad.
>> *Really* sad!

I'm not really thinking so much about me. I'm think what it will be like
for people a generation or two down the road. We need to plant more
trees, literally and spiritually. And by spiritually, I don't
necessarily mean religion--I mean we need to quit teaching kids to shoot
other people with guns. Watch the news. That said, I think more guns
among law-abiding people would be better than fewer guns.

Leon wrote:
> On 2/2/2016 1:47 AM, Bill wrote:
>>
>>> Puckdropper wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ads aren't ever going to go away, but we can
>>>> make sure they're only in acceptable forms.
>>>>
>>>> Puckdropper
>>
>>
>> Now that we have the general background layed out. Imagine B*** sitting
>> down at his computer, to "get away from it all, or whatever", opening up
>> his newsgroup reader, and reading in the first (actually second)
>> message:
>>
>> Festool is expensive too. ;!)
>>
>> You can't make that stuff up!
>
>
> Imagine L*** sitting down at his computer, to get away from it all, or
> whatever, opening up his newsgroup reader, and reading 'B***'*" posts
> and them still being totally OT with hardly ever anything related to
> woodworking.
>
Well, at least we've come full circle to where you may truly understand
my first post to this thread. People seem to be in a
policitically-minded mood. Perhaps its related to the Iowa caucuses. I
Really like the Lee Valley catalog. And I like they way they tastefully
send out a version several times a year, instead of emailing me perhaps
twice a week like Rockler does. Even Harbor Freight uses a little
restraint. CPO-Woodworking not so much.
> .

Leon wrote:
> On 2/2/2016 8:01 AM, Bill wrote:
> Snip
>
>
>>
>> Yes. I can more than control myself. I don't have control over my
>> environment, unless I choose to stay home and stay of the roads. If
>> elected, I would make others respect the rights of others for a better
>> environment. Almost always, where there is a conflict between man and
>> nature, nature loses. I would try to change that. My values comes
>> before my pocketbook and I have the documentation to prove it.
>>
> There are bigger problems that what you consider to be a problem. You
> can't change human nature. If you were elected I suspect you would
> not be handling real issues if you focused your time on trying to make
> people respect each other.

How about making corporations respect people? Maybe we need to give
"corporate entities" some limits and guidelines. A received a notice
from the bank today, a big bank, New Rule: Discrepancies concerning
deposit slips may or may not be corrected, at the banks discretion, if
the discrepancy is less than $10. Someone must have stayed up all night
thinking of that new profit generating idea... I wonder which ones
they will correct? Too much to ask for a bank to have to put the
customer's money into his or her account?

Bill wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 2/2/2016 8:01 AM, Bill wrote:
>> Snip
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Yes. I can more than control myself. I don't have control over my
>>> environment, unless I choose to stay home and stay of the roads. If
>>> elected, I would make others respect the rights of others for a better
>>> environment. Almost always, where there is a conflict between man and
>>> nature, nature loses. I would try to change that. My values comes
>>> before my pocketbook and I have the documentation to prove it.
>>>
>> There are bigger problems that what you consider to be a problem. You
>> can't change human nature. If you were elected I suspect you would
>> not be handling real issues if you focused your time on trying to
>> make people respect each other.
>
> How about making corporations respect people? Maybe we need to give
> "corporate entities" some limits and guidelines. A received a notice
> from the bank today, a big bank, New Rule: Discrepancies concerning
> deposit slips may or may not be corrected, at the banks discretion, if
> the discrepancy is less than $10. Someone must have stayed up all
> night thinking of that new profit generating idea... I wonder which
> ones they will correct? Too much to ask for a bank to have to put the
> customer's money into his or her account?
>

I decided to be "proactive" and tried to contact the bank. No email
access. The phone number didn't allow me to connect with a customer
representative. Happy day. I will strive to make a point of sharing
my opinions about this one way or another. Maybe our motto should be:
People have rights too! The "customer agreements" get longer every year.
So long, that it's not practical to even read most of them. I do not
think the new policy will help make the world a better place.
Maybe I'll short them $5 on my next deposit, and see whether they
correct it or not... : )

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500
Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

> year, the "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored
> by Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.

but they cannot make us call it that we can still call it what we want

but do get concerned when they call it the indianapolis 500 sponsored by
harbor freight

On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 09:51:50 -0600, Swingman wrote:

> The banking and investment industry are perfect examples, as well as
> cable and internet providers.

And you assume they'd get better without regulation? What have you been
smoking?

Government has been defined, correctly in my opinion, as a "necessary
evil". There's a reason why it's necessary - if you can't grasp that,
you live in a fantasy world.


--
It's turtles, all the way down!

On Tue, 02 Feb 2016 13:08:43 -0600, Swingman wrote:

> Enjoyed that $9,513.75 that came out of the taxes that you _personally_
> paid since 2008 that went to bail out the second most government
> regulated industry in existence, not to mention all that interest you
> get on your savings, and the fees you get soaked with, eh?

And perhaps you didn't notice that it was the *relaxation* of regulations
that caused the banking/mortgage crisis?

And a lack of regulation that resulted in all those polluted Superfund
sites? Competition didn't seem to have any effect there.

A long time ago, Will Rogers said we had the best government money could
buy. Nothing has changed.

--
It's turtles, all the way down!

J. Clarke wrote:
>> A received a notice
>> from the bank today, a big bank, New Rule: Discrepancies concerning
>> deposit slips may or may not be corrected, at the banks discretion, if
>> the discrepancy is less than $10. Someone must have stayed up all night
>> thinking of that new profit generating idea... I wonder which ones
>> they will correct? Too much to ask for a bank to have to put the
>> customer's money into his or her account?
> A lot of that sort of thing could be easily fixed by requiring that any
> contract or change in a contract, in order to be valid, must be accepted
> actively and explicitly, not passively by continuing to use a service.
>

Well, they added it to their "terms of service" (I think). I may
inquire at the local branch if they are going to *notify* customers of
the discrepancies found on the occasion that they keep the extra money.

You can read the new policy at the top of the first page (paragraph 'A')
below (you also be able to see that it's a "new policy"):

https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chasecom/en/checking/documents/deposit_account_agreement.pdf

J. Clarke wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
> says...
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> A received a notice
>>>> from the bank today, a big bank, New Rule: Discrepancies concerning
>>>> deposit slips may or may not be corrected, at the banks discretion, if
>>>> the discrepancy is less than $10. Someone must have stayed up all night
>>>> thinking of that new profit generating idea... I wonder which ones
>>>> they will correct? Too much to ask for a bank to have to put the
>>>> customer's money into his or her account?
>>> A lot of that sort of thing could be easily fixed by requiring that any
>>> contract or change in a contract, in order to be valid, must be accepted
>>> actively and explicitly, not passively by continuing to use a service.
>>>
>> Well, they added it to their "terms of service" (I think). I may
>> inquire at the local branch if they are going to *notify* customers of
>> the discrepancies found on the occasion that they keep the extra money.
>>
>> You can read the new policy at the top of the first page (paragraph 'A')
>> below (you also be able to see that it's a "new policy"):
>>
>> https://www.chase.com/content/dam/chasecom/en/checking/documents/deposit_account_agreement.pdf
> Look on page 16:
>
> "By maintaining your account after the effective date of any change, you
> agree to the change."

At least they kept the terms of service for a checking account to 30
pages. You have to give them credit for that... ha.

Re: Advertising

No Superbowl here tonight (for the sake of the principle's we have
discussed). I'll miss the extra "sandwich"... : )

Bill

Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/7/2016 6:22 PM, Bill wrote:
>> Re: Advertising
>>
>> No Superbowl here tonight (for the sake of the principle's we have
>> discussed). I'll miss the extra "sandwich"... : )
>>
>> Bill
>
>
> Same here. I don't get a thrill watching a group of millionaires that
> work for billionaires running around on a field.
Thanks, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one not-watching!

Bill

>
> Oh, be careful what ypu post. If you use the term Superbowl wrongly
> they will come after you too.

Puckdropper wrote:
> Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>
>>> Same here. I don't get a thrill watching a group of millionaires that
>>> work for billionaires running around on a field.
>> Thanks, I'm glad to know I'm not the only one not-watching!
>>
>> Bill
> The most important game of the weekend was actually last night. Just a
> mid-season hockey game between the Blackhawks and Stars.
>
> I wonder if Doug Miller and the guy with the U of I e-mail (Len Lopez? I
> can't remember his name right off) avoid the game too. We get enough of
> us woodworkers avoiding the game and maybe we could meet somewhere like
> Danville (halfway between Peoria and Indy) to avoid the game and talk
> about woodworking.
>
> If anyone's interested and willing to travel to the IL/IN border on 74
> (Danville), speak up. If we get enough interest, maybe we'll set
> something up next year.
>
> Puckdropper

That's a nice thought. It wouldn't have to be a winter-time meeting as
far as I'm concerned. My wife knows how to entertain herself anywhere
there's trees (and birds).

Bill

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 08:35:34 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500
>Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> year, the "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored
>> by Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>
>but they cannot make us call it that we can still call it what we want
>
>but do get concerned when they call it the indianapolis 500 sponsored by
>harbor freight
>
If I were a driver, I'd certainly be concerned! ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On 1/31/2016 9:55 AM, Leon wrote:

>>
>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>
>>
>
> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>

Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.

On Mon, 01 Feb 2016 21:18:06 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 21:54:23 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>>krw wrote:
>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>>
>>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>>
>>>> B***
>>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>>
>>Evidently, not everyone regards his mind as his own. For 100 years, the
>>"Indianapolis 500" was good enough. The accumulation of
>>"marketing-bombardment" adds up. One can fairly ask, "Which drop of
>>water caused the glass to overfill?". All I can say is that I am
>>running fairly "close to full" these days. Funny this phenomenon seems
>>to peak about every 4 years, in harmony with the political process... YMMV
>
>Having been to the Speedway in Speedway and through out all public
>areas of the track there have been marketing partners through out the
>100 years.

Hell, I even noticed some "Pennzoil" stickers plastered all over some
of the cars! Ugly! ;-)

>Or you can ascribe that evil to Nascar the 800lbs gorilla.

How dare they make *money*!

On 2/2/2016 8:01 AM, Bill wrote:
Snip


>
> Yes. I can more than control myself. I don't have control over my
> environment, unless I choose to stay home and stay of the roads. If
> elected, I would make others respect the rights of others for a better
> environment. Almost always, where there is a conflict between man and
> nature, nature loses. I would try to change that. My values comes
> before my pocketbook and I have the documentation to prove it.
>
There are bigger problems that what you consider to be a problem. You
can't change human nature. If you were elected I suspect you would not
be handling real issues if you focused your time on trying to make
people respect each other.

On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>
>If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>then I guess you can't relate.

I guess not. Your choice, though.

>No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>"Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>
>B***

Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)

On 2/2/2016 1:53 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/2/2016 9:27 AM, Bill wrote:
>
>> Well, at least we've come full circle to where you may truly understand
>> my first post to this thread. People seem to be in a
>> policitically-minded mood. Perhaps its related to the Iowa caucuses. I
>> Really like the Lee Valley catalog. And I like they way they tastefully
>> send out a version several times a year, instead of emailing me perhaps
>> twice a week like Rockler does. Even Harbor Freight uses a little
>> restraint. CPO-Woodworking not so much.
>>> .
>>
>
> Leon emails me at least twice a week to tell me about Festool products
> and how he uses them. I've tried to unsubscribe but they just keep
> coming. I think Festool pays 2¢ him for every email I open.


You were not suppose to let the cat out of the bag. LOL

On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:34:52 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
wrote:

>krw wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Feb 2016 22:04:17 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> krw wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 21:37:36 -0500, Bill <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:40:36 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I think most of us have had enough Fes-Spam.
>>>>>>>> It was an inside joke, Not a Festool promotion.
>>>>>>> Some of us noticed and got a chuckle from it.
>>>>>> Those "some of us" have also known for sometime that B*** doesn't have
>>>>>> the faculty to get a chuckle from that type of comment. :)
>>>>> If you don't already feel like something of an advertising "victim",
>>>>> then I guess you can't relate.
>>>> I guess not. Your choice, though.
>>>>
>>>>> No doubt our individual tolerance levels
>>>>> are different. New in the recent (local?) news is that, this year, the
>>>>> "Indianapolis 500" will be the "Indianapolis 500, sponsored by
>>>>> Pennzoil". Chuckle over that.
>>>>>
>>>>> B***
>>>> Would you rather it be the "Pennzoil 500 from Indianapolis" or perhaps
>>>> the "Donald Trump 500"? ;-)
>>> Just like our air and water quality, our animals and the earth. After we
>>> take everything we can and sell it to the highest bidder, enjoy.... Go
>>> to Flint, MI and get a drink of water...
>> Are you seriously comparing potentially toxic water to a little
>> advertising? Really?
>
>Similar "greed" at the source of both, no?

Absolutely *NOT*. You morally equate feeding one's family by running
a grocery store with poisoning your neighbors for political gain.
That, sir, is called "Moral Relativity" at its finest!

>Look at what the Internet
>has become between the 1990s and now.

Hmm, in 1990 it was a toy. I can really make use of it now, and do.

>It's almost like walking downtown
>in NYC. I think that our "Inalienable Rights" might be updated to
>include some "protection from marketers". I find it a new source of
>"pollution". That you have currently found a good way to "hide" does
>not, to my mind, eliminate the societal problem. YMMV.

You aren't adult enough to control yourself? You need government to
infringe on other's rights, just to make your life worth living? Sad.
*Really* sad!

>

On 2/2/2016 9:03 AM, Bill wrote:
> How about making corporations respect people? Maybe we need to give
> "corporate entities" some limits and guidelines.

Corporations generally have a right to do business as they see fit ...
or in a manner, no matter how stupid or ill advised, that they can get away.

The customer only has a right to take their business elsewhere, so far.

The problem, as you are experiencing, starts soon after you get
government involvement.

Works briefly in your favor, then you idiots allow your elected
representatives to sell you out and you eventually get the phenomenon
know as "regulatory capture" ... always to the detriment of the consumer.

The banking and investment industry are perfect examples, as well as
cable and internet providers.

--
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)