HF has shorter hours now in some stores

On Saturday, January 30, 2016 at 10:11:07 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> I'm sure it makes economic sense. They know the dollar sales each hour
> and that last hour is probably too low to justify the costs of operations.

Yes. I assume the grocery store near me looks at sales per hour and figures out what times of day to have more checkout people operating the cashiers.

On Tue, 2 Feb 2016 08:44:16 -0800, Electric Comet
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 23:11:09 -0500
>Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm sure it makes economic sense. They know the dollar sales each
>> hour and that last hour is probably too low to justify the costs of
>> operations.
>
>i wonder what 7 to 8 pm looks like too
>
>would not expect it to be very busy
>
> i guess the wording they chose sounded better than saying something else
>
>like
>
>we are reducing store hours because the stores are empty and very few
>sales are made and we can save a lot of money by closing an hour early
>
>
>plus they throw a bone to their employees at no cost to the employer
>
Throw a bone? They've now eliminated at least the equivalent of a
half-time position. That's the pretty much the only cost savings they
can realize by reducing hours. Pretty much everything else has fixed
cost.

Meanie <[email protected]> was heard to mutter:

>On 1/30/2016 8:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> heard that they are closing some stores early so employees can get home
>> before the end of the game
>>
>> err i mean to see the family
>
>Being on their mailing list, I received a notice of that nature. They
>will close at 8 instead of 9. I assume all other email listers received
>the same notice.

I received a notice too. Stores closing 8pm instead of 9pm so
employees can spend more evening time with their families.
Train your mind to test every thought, ideology, train of reasoning, and claim to truth.

On 31 Jan 2016 19:55:31 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> If i was doing it today I'd use the Sharkbite valves. If the water
>> does not shut off so you can solder, the valve can just be pushed on
>> and turned off.
>>
>
>It sure beats trying to get the bread out of the pipe! (Even if you do
>take the precaution of leaving an exit. :-))
>
The only bread I use in plumbing I hand to the plumber after he's
done. I *hate* plumbing repairs. I have nightmares of chasing broken
pipes and fittings all the way under the street. ;-)

On 1/31/2016 1:30 PM, -MIKE- wrote:

>> We visited my MIL about 360 miles away. She had a couple of dripping
>> faucets. The main valve has not been turned in years. We usually
>> visited on weekends. It bothered me seeing the drip but I was not about
>> to tackle it on a weekend in case the water had to be turned off at the
>> street. They still dripped when she eventually sold the house.
>
>
> Any time I replace a faucet or toilet I bring a new 1/4-turn ball
> shut-off valve with me.
> The valves that are ubiquitous around here for the average ages of the
> home are what I can "infinity-turn" valves. :-)
>
> You know, the ones that always get stuck in the on position from
> corrosion and feel like they're going to break off in your hand when
> you're turning them. And when you finally do get them turned off, they
> don't feel like they are stopped because the rubber washer seal is also
> corroded and torn or squished up. Then while you're working on
> replacing the faucet or toilet, you notice a little puddle under the
> valve because it never actually shut off all the way. And when you hook
> it back up to a new water supply hose, and turn it on it again feels
> like it's going to break off in your hand.
>
> So you're left with the option of rebuilding the valve with a new rubber
> washer and stem packing or just putting a new valve on the water pipe.
> If you don't do one of these you're going to get called back when the
> old valve springs a leak (and it will) because you were the last man in.
> Putting on a new valve isn't that much more considering the parts and
> labor involved with rebuilding an old one.
>
> I always try to talk my clients into letting me install a new 1/4-turn
> ball valve that I already have with me and will do for much cheaper than
> a plumber would charge, because it will benefit them by removing a huge
> potential for future water damage, *and* benefit me by making the
> sink/faucet/toilet replacement easier and less stressful. After hearing
> my explanation of the scenarios I described above, they usually see the
> wisdom in it.
>
>

If i was doing it today I'd use the Sharkbite valves. If the water does
not shut off so you can solder, the valve can just be pushed on and
turned off.

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 1/30/2016 8:15 PM, Meanie wrote:
>> On 1/30/2016 8:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>> heard that they are closing some stores early so employees can get
>>> home before the end of the game
>>>
>>> err i mean to see the family
>>
>> Being on their mailing list, I received a notice of that nature. They
>> will close at 8 instead of 9. I assume all other email listers
>> received the same notice.
>>
>
> I'm sure it makes economic sense. They know the dollar sales each
> hour and that last hour is probably too low to justify the costs of
> operations.

There's often the official reason and the real reason. Economics are the
real reason, but it's being sold as the official reason.

I've been in some stores (not just HF) during their last hour, and things
were really slow. I don't blame them for not staying open if there's no
one interested in shopping.

Puckdropper

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Some of your big box stores open at 6:00 am or so... not too much to
> complain about. : )
> They are used to customers that "know what they want" at that hour.
>
>

A long time ago, I came across two very good pieces of plumbing advice:
1. Don't begin a project when the store is closed.
2. Make sure you have plenty of pipe caps. That way, even if the store is
closed you can at least cap off the pipe and get the water back on.

Puckdropper

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

>
> If i was doing it today I'd use the Sharkbite valves. If the water
> does not shut off so you can solder, the valve can just be pushed on
> and turned off.
>

It sure beats trying to get the bread out of the pipe! (Even if you do
take the precaution of leaving an exit. :-))

Puckdropper

Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in news:MYKdnbCr77pLAzPLnZ2dnUU7-
[email protected]:

>
> I was lucky. Bought my first house in 1966. Where I worked we built
> HVAC products for industrial, commercial, school use. The guys showed
> me how to solder, braze, weld materials. Another guy came to my house
> to do a little job for me but took the time to show me some basic wiring
> techniques. They saved me a bunch of money over the years.

I've found several of the pros I've called are willing to show me stuff. I
watched one guy clean the flue pipes on the boiler, he showed me what he
did and I just added the procedure to my annual start up.

Unfortunately, no one ever bothered to tell me I needed to put oil in the
Little Red Booster Pump. A bottle of compatible oil costs less than $5 and
you only need about a tablespoon or so annually to prevent problems.
That's downright cheap compared to the price of a new pump!

Puckdropper

On 1/31/2016 2:55 PM, Puckdropper wrote:
> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>>
>> If i was doing it today I'd use the Sharkbite valves. If the water
>> does not shut off so you can solder, the valve can just be pushed on
>> and turned off.
>>
>
> It sure beats trying to get the bread out of the pipe! (Even if you do
> take the precaution of leaving an exit. :-))
>
> Puckdropper
>

Bread works better if you take the pastrami off of it first.

On 2/2/2016 12:46 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/2/16 12:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:45:28 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>
>>> If i was doing it today I'd use the Sharkbite valves. If the water
>>> does not shut off so you can solder, the valve can just be pushed
>>> on and turned off.
>>
>> No longer allowed on my jobs where they walls are covered up. As
>> with many plumbers and remodellers around here, we have had too many
>> problems with them. Inside a wall they can have a tiny leak that is
>> so small it goes undetected until of course, the wall is repaired and
>> painted. Those couplers have to be perfectly aligned and attached to
>> work properly, and in difficult conditions that can be too much of a
>> moving target. On the other hand, they do have their place, and for
>> easily accessible areas they are dandly.
>>
>> There are other types of cold joint couplings that are coming of age
>> now, but Sharkbites are falling rapidly out of favor around here.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
> I've wondered about the long-term effectiveness of them, but I'm having
> trouble weeding through the old-timers' technophobia and the real data.
>
> Of the ones to which you refer, I wonder how many were improperly
> installed. I wonder how many were pushed onto dirty, corroded copper
> pipes. I wonder how many were inserted to the proper depth. I wonder
> how many were inserted without the bushing insert for applications which
> require it. I wonder a lot of things.
>
> I also wonder about the longevity of any o-ring based water pipe
> installation.
>
>


Everything done perfectly they should last. Is every thing done
perfectly, no... ;~) Lot's of variables.

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>
> [email protected] wrote:
>
> >
> > Without a perfect, laboratory type installation onto perfectly cleaned,
> > trued, concentric pipes, I don't think all that long. Once the O ring
> > loses its elasticity (granted with neoprene it could take a few years)
> > the joint is shot. The only way a non leaking solder joint fails is
> > movement of structure or damage that takes place. I routinely go to
> > jobs that have 50 years or older solder joints that are performing the
> > same way they did when installed.
> >
>
> That's been my complaint with Sharkbites. I have exactly one of them
> installed in my house and don't plan on any more. It just bugs me to
> death that the device is floppy on the pipe when it's properly
> installed. Well - maybe the word floppy is a bit extreme, but it's not
> a confidence inspiring rock solid joint like a solder joint is. Just
> can't feel good about a valve that will spin around the pipe when it's
> installed.

I needed to do an emergency repair a while back and looked at Shark
Bite, which would have been the quick and simple way to do it, and ended
up going for solder. One of these days I'm going to have open that wall
and do a proper, cosmetically attractive fix.

On 1/31/2016 6:29 PM, krw wrote:

>>
> The only bread I use in plumbing I hand to the plumber after he's
> done. I *hate* plumbing repairs. I have nightmares of chasing broken
> pipes and fittings all the way under the street. ;-)
>

I was lucky. Bought my first house in 1966. Where I worked we built
HVAC products for industrial, commercial, school use. The guys showed
me how to solder, braze, weld materials. Another guy came to my house
to do a little job for me but took the time to show me some basic wiring
techniques. They saved me a bunch of money over the years.

On 1/30/2016 8:15 PM, Meanie wrote:
> On 1/30/2016 8:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>> heard that they are closing some stores early so employees can get home
>> before the end of the game
>>
>> err i mean to see the family
>
> Being on their mailing list, I received a notice of that nature. They
> will close at 8 instead of 9. I assume all other email listers received
> the same notice.
>

I'm sure it makes economic sense. They know the dollar sales each hour
and that last hour is probably too low to justify the costs of operations.

On 2/2/2016 6:41 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> On 2/2/16 1:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 12:47:01 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>>> I've wondered about the long-term effectiveness of them, but I'm having
>>> trouble weeding through the old-timers' technophobia and the real data.
>>
>> Always a challenge with any new product. I am not the first to jump
>> on a new product, but don't like to be the last if the product is
>> good. In this case, I take heed from the two plumbers I use for all
>> my plumbing work.
>>
>>> Of the ones to which you refer, I wonder how many were improperly
>>> installed. I wonder how many were pushed onto dirty, corroded copper
>>> pipes. I wonder how many were inserted to the proper depth.
>>
>> I tried to keep that in clear context in my post. In perfect
>> conditions, a perfect installation is reasonable and expected.
>> However, all I do is maintenance and repair, and as I tried to make
>> clear in my post
>>
>> "Those couplers have to be perfectly aligned and attached to work
>> properly, and in difficult conditions that can be too much of a moving
>> target."
>>
>> My plumber's last shot at Sharkbite couplers was about 8-9 months ago
>> when we had one leak a week later inside a will. Since I am always
>> looking for a way to keep from soldering, especially in cramped
>> quarters, I let him use the Sharkbite in a shower wall valve
>> replacement. Keeping the hole as small as possible to eliminate tile
>> repair and to be able to cover the hole with a "Smitty" plate, he used
>> Sharkbites.
>>
>> On leaked, the other didn't. A couple of months later he announced to
>> me to put back in is charge to solder as we were done with SBs unless
>> he had clear, easy, 360 degree access to the joint. In my business,
>> that happens almost... never.
>>
>> Later, my other plumber told me he wasn't going to use them as he had
>> encountered problems with them as well, and will only use them when he
>> has ease of access.
>>
>> Both of these guys know me well. I am not concerned with something
>> that "should" work. I want a kill shot, one and done. Too many times
>> that is difficult to begin with, and to use a product that requires a
>> perfect installation many times is asking too much. The difference I
>> pay to have my joints soldered is well worth the piece of mind I get.
>>
>>> I also wonder about the longevity of any o-ring based water pipe
>>> installation.
>>
>> Without a perfect, laboratory type installation onto perfectly
>> cleaned, trued, concentric pipes, I don't think all that long. Once
>> the O ring loses its elasticity (granted with neoprene it could take a
>> few years)the joint is shot. The only way a non leaking solder joint
>> fails is movement of structure or damage that takes place. I routinely
>> go to jobs that have 50 years or older solder joints that are
>> performing the same way they did when installed.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>>
>
> Good info! Thanks. It'll go into my mental file.
>
>


And remember, they are OK to use as long as they are easy to get to to
repair. If you use it and hide it away so that a sizable amount of work
is required to find that it is leaking, it will leak. ;~)

On 1/31/2016 5:29 PM, krw wrote:
> On 31 Jan 2016 19:55:31 GMT, Puckdropper
> <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:
>
>> Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>>
>>> If i was doing it today I'd use the Sharkbite valves. If the water
>>> does not shut off so you can solder, the valve can just be pushed on
>>> and turned off.
>>>
>>
>> It sure beats trying to get the bread out of the pipe! (Even if you do
>> take the precaution of leaving an exit. :-))
>>
> The only bread I use in plumbing I hand to the plumber after he's
> done. I *hate* plumbing repairs. I have nightmares of chasing broken
> pipes and fittings all the way under the street. ;-)
>


I have done more plumbing that I care to admit. Here is what I know. A
fitting can be too tight or too loose.

Any other questions? LOL

On 1/31/2016 9:39 AM, Puckdropper wrote:

>
> A long time ago, I came across two very good pieces of plumbing advice:
> 1. Don't begin a project when the store is closed.
> 2. Make sure you have plenty of pipe caps. That way, even if the store is
> closed you can at least cap off the pipe and get the water back on.
>
> Puckdropper
>

We visited my MIL about 360 miles away. She had a couple of dripping
faucets. The main valve has not been turned in years. We usually
visited on weekends. It bothered me seeing the drip but I was not about
to tackle it on a weekend in case the water had to be turned off at the
street. They still dripped when she eventually sold the house.

Bill <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> John Grossbohlin wrote:
>> "Puckdropper" wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> I've been in some stores (not just HF) during their last hour, and
>>> things
>>> were really slow. I don't blame them for not staying open if
>>> there's no one interested in shopping.

I never knew HF was open in the evening anyway...I thought they
closed at 6.

> Some of your big box stores open at 6:00 am or so... not too much to
> complain about. : )
> They are used to customers that "know what they want" at that hour.


Around here it's common practice for the smaller contractors to
head to Home Depot at the crack of dawn to not only get whatever
parts they need for the day, but also to collect up whatever
labor they need. There's always a dozen or 20 guys hanging
around looking for a day job.

John

"Puckdropper" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>I've been in some stores (not just HF) during their last hour, and things
>were really slow. I don't blame them for not staying open if there's no
>one interested in shopping.

Yeah... This is mostly because the real emergencies, for which a new tool is
needed, always happen shortly after the stores close anyway. This in turn
leads to a busy morning.... ;~)

On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:45:28 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
=20
> If i was doing it today I'd use the Sharkbite valves. If the water does=
=20
> not shut off so you can solder, the valve can just be pushed on and=20
> turned off.

No longer allowed on my jobs where they walls are covered up. As with many=
plumbers and remodellers around here, we have had too many problems with t=
hem. Inside a wall they can have a tiny leak that is so small it goes unde=
tected until of course, the wall is repaired and painted. Those couplers h=
ave to be perfectly aligned and attached to work properly, and in difficult=
conditions that can be too much of a moving target. On the other hand, th=
ey do have their place, and for easily accessible areas they are dandly. =
=20

There are other types of cold joint couplings that are coming of age now, b=
ut Sharkbites are falling rapidly out of favor around here.

Robert

On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 12:47:01 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:

> I've wondered about the long-term effectiveness of them, but I'm having=
=20
> trouble weeding through the old-timers' technophobia and the real data.

Always a challenge with any new product. I am not the first to jump on a n=
ew product, but don't like to be the last if the product is good. In this =
case, I take heed from the two plumbers I use for all my plumbing work.
=20
> Of the ones to which you refer, I wonder how many were improperly=20
> installed. I wonder how many were pushed onto dirty, corroded copper=20
> pipes. I wonder how many were inserted to the proper depth. =20

I tried to keep that in clear context in my post. In perfect conditions, a=
perfect installation is reasonable and expected. However, all I do is mai=
ntenance and repair, and as I tried to make clear in my post

"Those couplers have to be perfectly aligned and attached to work properly=
, and in difficult conditions that can be too much of a moving target."

My plumber's last shot at Sharkbite couplers was about 8-9 months ago when =
we had one leak a week later inside a will. Since I am always looking for =
a way to keep from soldering, especially in cramped quarters, I let him use=
the Sharkbite in a shower wall valve replacement. Keeping the hole as sma=
ll as possible to eliminate tile repair and to be able to cover the hole wi=
th a "Smitty" plate, he used Sharkbites.

On leaked, the other didn't. A couple of months later he announced to me t=
o put back in is charge to solder as we were done with SBs unless he had cl=
ear, easy, 360 degree access to the joint. In my business, that happens al=
most... never.

Later, my other plumber told me he wasn't going to use them as he had encou=
ntered problems with them as well, and will only use them when he has ease =
of access.

Both of these guys know me well. I am not concerned with something that "s=
hould" work. I want a kill shot, one and done. Too many times that is diff=
icult to begin with, and to use a product that requires a perfect installat=
ion many times is asking too much. The difference I pay to have my joints =
soldered is well worth the piece of mind I get. =20

> I also wonder about the longevity of any o-ring based water pipe=20
> installation.

Without a perfect, laboratory type installation onto perfectly cleaned, tru=
ed, concentric pipes, I don't think all that long. Once the O ring loses i=
ts elasticity (granted with neoprene it could take a few years)the joint is=
shot. The only way a non leaking solder joint fails is movement of struct=
ure or damage that takes place. I routinely go to jobs that have 50 years o=
r older solder joints that are performing the same way they did when instal=
led.

Robert

On 31 Jan 2016 07:41:57 GMT, Puckdropper
<puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote:

>Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote in
>news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 1/30/2016 8:15 PM, Meanie wrote:
>>> On 1/30/2016 8:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
>>>> heard that they are closing some stores early so employees can get
>>>> home before the end of the game
>>>>
>>>> err i mean to see the family
>>>
>>> Being on their mailing list, I received a notice of that nature. They
>>> will close at 8 instead of 9. I assume all other email listers
>>> received the same notice.
>>>
>>
>> I'm sure it makes economic sense. They know the dollar sales each
>> hour and that last hour is probably too low to justify the costs of
>> operations.
>
>There's often the official reason and the real reason. Economics are the
>real reason, but it's being sold as the official reason.
>
>I've been in some stores (not just HF) during their last hour, and things
>were really slow. I don't blame them for not staying open if there's no
>one interested in shopping.
>
Their marginal cost of operation is the lowest for each additional
hour, too. I think the big thing is that the lost sales are minimal.
If the store is closed, people will buy tomorrow, so there is really
no lost sales. It's not like a fast-food restaurant.

On 1/30/2016 8:08 PM, Electric Comet wrote:
> heard that they are closing some stores early so employees can get home
> before the end of the game
>
> err i mean to see the family

Being on their mailing list, I received a notice of that nature. They
will close at 8 instead of 9. I assume all other email listers received
the same notice.

John Grossbohlin wrote:
> "Puckdropper" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>> I've been in some stores (not just HF) during their last hour, and
>> things
>> were really slow. I don't blame them for not staying open if there's no
>> one interested in shopping.
>
> Yeah... This is mostly because the real emergencies, for which a new
> tool is needed, always happen shortly after the stores close anyway.
> This in turn leads to a busy morning.... ;~)
>
Some of your big box stores open at 6:00 am or so... not too much to
complain about. : )
They are used to customers that "know what they want" at that hour.

On 1/31/16 9:28 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 1/31/2016 9:39 AM, Puckdropper wrote:
>
>>
>> A long time ago, I came across two very good pieces of plumbing advice:
>> 1. Don't begin a project when the store is closed.
>> 2. Make sure you have plenty of pipe caps. That way, even if the
>> store is
>> closed you can at least cap off the pipe and get the water back on.
>>
>> Puckdropper
>>
>
> We visited my MIL about 360 miles away. She had a couple of dripping
> faucets. The main valve has not been turned in years. We usually
> visited on weekends. It bothered me seeing the drip but I was not about
> to tackle it on a weekend in case the water had to be turned off at the
> street. They still dripped when she eventually sold the house.


Any time I replace a faucet or toilet I bring a new 1/4-turn ball
shut-off valve with me.
The valves that are ubiquitous around here for the average ages of the
home are what I can "infinity-turn" valves. :-)

You know, the ones that always get stuck in the on position from
corrosion and feel like they're going to break off in your hand when
you're turning them. And when you finally do get them turned off, they
don't feel like they are stopped because the rubber washer seal is also
corroded and torn or squished up. Then while you're working on
replacing the faucet or toilet, you notice a little puddle under the
valve because it never actually shut off all the way. And when you hook
it back up to a new water supply hose, and turn it on it again feels
like it's going to break off in your hand.

So you're left with the option of rebuilding the valve with a new rubber
washer and stem packing or just putting a new valve on the water pipe.
If you don't do one of these you're going to get called back when the
old valve springs a leak (and it will) because you were the last man in.
Putting on a new valve isn't that much more considering the parts and
labor involved with rebuilding an old one.

I always try to talk my clients into letting me install a new 1/4-turn
ball valve that I already have with me and will do for much cheaper than
a plumber would charge, because it will benefit them by removing a huge
potential for future water damage, *and* benefit me by making the
sink/faucet/toilet replacement easier and less stressful. After hearing
my explanation of the scenarios I described above, they usually see the
wisdom in it.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On Sat, 30 Jan 2016 23:11:09 -0500
Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:

> I'm sure it makes economic sense. They know the dollar sales each
> hour and that last hour is probably too low to justify the costs of
> operations.

i wonder what 7 to 8 pm looks like too

would not expect it to be very busy

i guess the wording they chose sounded better than saying something else

like

we are reducing store hours because the stores are empty and very few
sales are made and we can save a lot of money by closing an hour early


plus they throw a bone to their employees at no cost to the employer

On 2/2/16 12:24 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sunday, January 31, 2016 at 1:45:28 PM UTC-6, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>
>> If i was doing it today I'd use the Sharkbite valves. If the water
>> does not shut off so you can solder, the valve can just be pushed
>> on and turned off.
>
> No longer allowed on my jobs where they walls are covered up. As
> with many plumbers and remodellers around here, we have had too many
> problems with them. Inside a wall they can have a tiny leak that is
> so small it goes undetected until of course, the wall is repaired and
> painted. Those couplers have to be perfectly aligned and attached to
> work properly, and in difficult conditions that can be too much of a
> moving target. On the other hand, they do have their place, and for
> easily accessible areas they are dandly.
>
> There are other types of cold joint couplings that are coming of age
> now, but Sharkbites are falling rapidly out of favor around here.
>
> Robert
>

I've wondered about the long-term effectiveness of them, but I'm having
trouble weeding through the old-timers' technophobia and the real data.

Of the ones to which you refer, I wonder how many were improperly
installed. I wonder how many were pushed onto dirty, corroded copper
pipes. I wonder how many were inserted to the proper depth. I wonder
how many were inserted without the bushing insert for applications which
require it. I wonder a lot of things.

I also wonder about the longevity of any o-ring based water pipe
installation.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

On 2/2/16 1:32 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 2, 2016 at 12:47:01 PM UTC-6, -MIKE- wrote:
>
>> I've wondered about the long-term effectiveness of them, but I'm having
>> trouble weeding through the old-timers' technophobia and the real data.
>
> Always a challenge with any new product. I am not the first to jump on a new product, but don't like to be the last if the product is good. In this case, I take heed from the two plumbers I use for all my plumbing work.
>
>> Of the ones to which you refer, I wonder how many were improperly
>> installed. I wonder how many were pushed onto dirty, corroded copper
>> pipes. I wonder how many were inserted to the proper depth.
>
> I tried to keep that in clear context in my post. In perfect conditions, a perfect installation is reasonable and expected. However, all I do is maintenance and repair, and as I tried to make clear in my post
>
> "Those couplers have to be perfectly aligned and attached to work properly, and in difficult conditions that can be too much of a moving target."
>
> My plumber's last shot at Sharkbite couplers was about 8-9 months ago when we had one leak a week later inside a will. Since I am always looking for a way to keep from soldering, especially in cramped quarters, I let him use the Sharkbite in a shower wall valve replacement. Keeping the hole as small as possible to eliminate tile repair and to be able to cover the hole with a "Smitty" plate, he used Sharkbites.
>
> On leaked, the other didn't. A couple of months later he announced to me to put back in is charge to solder as we were done with SBs unless he had clear, easy, 360 degree access to the joint. In my business, that happens almost... never.
>
> Later, my other plumber told me he wasn't going to use them as he had encountered problems with them as well, and will only use them when he has ease of access.
>
> Both of these guys know me well. I am not concerned with something that "should" work. I want a kill shot, one and done. Too many times that is difficult to begin with, and to use a product that requires a perfect installation many times is asking too much. The difference I pay to have my joints soldered is well worth the piece of mind I get.
>
>> I also wonder about the longevity of any o-ring based water pipe
>> installation.
>
> Without a perfect, laboratory type installation onto perfectly cleaned, trued, concentric pipes, I don't think all that long. Once the O ring loses its elasticity (granted with neoprene it could take a few years)the joint is shot. The only way a non leaking solder joint fails is movement of structure or damage that takes place. I routinely go to jobs that have 50 years or older solder joints that are performing the same way they did when installed.
>
> Robert
>
>

Good info! Thanks. It'll go into my mental file.


--

-MIKE-

"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply

[email protected] wrote:

>
> Without a perfect, laboratory type installation onto perfectly cleaned,
> trued, concentric pipes, I don't think all that long. Once the O ring
> loses its elasticity (granted with neoprene it could take a few years)
> the joint is shot. The only way a non leaking solder joint fails is
> movement of structure or damage that takes place. I routinely go to
> jobs that have 50 years or older solder joints that are performing the
> same way they did when installed.
>

That's been my complaint with Sharkbites. I have exactly one of them
installed in my house and don't plan on any more. It just bugs me to
death that the device is floppy on the pipe when it's properly
installed. Well - maybe the word floppy is a bit extreme, but it's not
a confidence inspiring rock solid joint like a solder joint is. Just
can't feel good about a valve that will spin around the pipe when it's
installed.



--
-Mike-
[email protected]