Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before
(I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
specific and up-to-date input.
I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I have
read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess boards,
boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools. I
have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools.
Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a hobby I
go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try to go
quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw
(unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If I go
with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of money
for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a
situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the
question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just for
production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and better
suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a
grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost the
same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good
cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a
220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your
advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Well, you have money left over. Get a rebuilt Unisaw w/Unifence,
mobile base and tenon devie ($100). Mighty-T Track for the Unifernce ,
feather boards,and you are in business. You will have no problem at
all if you will buy and pick-up instead of deliver. I load /unload
everything myself which helps. A cabinet saw is :
1) More powerful
2) More steady, sturdier
3) Cleaner
4) Commands respect.
You will find that you can put a teneon jig on a cabinet saw and not
worry about it becoming unbalanced. It is also easier to work with and
I don't know how to explain that one.
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before
>(I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
>specific and up-to-date input.
>
>I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I have
>read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess boards,
>boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools. I
>have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools.
>Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a hobby I
>go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try to go
>quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw
>(unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If I go
>with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of money
>for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a
>situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the
>question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
>cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just for
>production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and better
>suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a
>grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost the
>same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good
>cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a
>220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your
>advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
>lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
>will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
>difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
>Any advice would be appreciated.
>
Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument
otherwise accepted.
You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you
will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing, you
will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind
that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and
concentrate on the creation.
Guaranteed ....
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Marc" wrote in message
> same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good
> cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a
> 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your
> advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
> lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
> will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
> difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
> Any advice would be appreciated.
Can someone explain to me the fascination with dado blades on table saws?
I use a router for all dados (it SEEMS easier). All woodworkers have at
least one router, so why do people use table saws for dados ?
"Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It's a good point and one I have considered a lot. Probably the reason I
am
> asking a group so I can separate and distinguish my wants from my needs.
If
> all I have is a shop with a great table saw, I'm not going to be able to
do
> much. There will be more funds in the near future but what will I do
until
> then? I have some nice hand tools, Japanese chisels, LN 4 1/2 plane, and
a
> few other items. but I am using a router table for a jointer which is not
> very suitable. I need some better squares and clamps etc. not to mention
> WOOD, it's not cheap.
>
> On the other hand maybe it is better to get this one big item
out-of-the-way
> so I never have to consider it again, and slowly build a shop of only
> quality items over time.
>
> I've heard of people subsituting a quality band-saw and using it for a
> table-saw duty, that is what laguana seems to suggest on their band saw
> video. But I don't see how that could work, small table, no dado, table
> tilts instead of blade, lateral limitation by yoke of band saw, I just
don't
> see that working out.
>
> It's a tough question, and it makes me realize how expensive this hobby
is.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Marc
>
> "Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .....
>
> >
> > 5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least
> > another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will
> > need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages,
> > markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're
> > darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision
> > work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.?
> > Got Money? <tm>
> >
>
> ......
>
>
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:33:01 +0000, David Binkowski wrote:
>
> Can someone explain to me the fascination with dado blades on table saws?
> I use a router for all dados (it SEEMS easier). All woodworkers have at
> least one router, so why do people use table saws for dados ?
1) stacked dado can be set to exact width required (up to 13/16") and done
in one pass.
2) full depth can be done in one pass.
3) faster setup against fence or on sled.
4) chips/dust can be somewhat more easily controlled.
5) tablesaws don't suffer from ARHA. (DAMHIKT)
-Doug
BTW, I use my stacked dado on my RAS as my TS is a weenie tabletop model
with a short arbor.
"Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> It boils down to the
> question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
> cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?
Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference.
If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a
difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the
contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up
front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only once
did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took me
longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference.
Ed
"Michael Baglio
> Michael
> Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is
> building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every
> other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those.
> Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout
> doit.
How many circuit breakers? Code has a limit on the number of outlets allowed
on a breaker.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
"Michael Baglio
> (Btw, I recall several months ago you responding to a request of mine
> for general pricing guidelines on shop building materials. Iirc, you
> quoted a friend's shop, recently built. That post really gave me a
> lot of "go-for-it" that I didn't have previously. So, if I didn't
> thank you, thanks. Youdaman.)
Your welcome and I'm glad the information I provided helped.
The friend I mentioned has been using that building for about a year. He's
already talking about bumping it out. There's a lot to be said for "post and
beam" construction.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
(Remove "SPAM" from email address to reply)
Yes, I put one on my 36-650 contractor saw... the 52" model.
I LOVE it... accurate repeatable cuts, and well built.
Highly recommended.
No affiliation, just a happy customer.
Dave.
B a r r y B u r k e J r . wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:58 -0700, Charles Jones <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>In article <[email protected]>,
>>[email protected] says...
>>
>>>I read a comparison and general rated very high, but I can't find much
>>>information on general. Does the manufacture have a website?
>>
>>http://www.general.ca/
>>
>>CharlesJ
>
>
>
> Anybody have any comments about General's T-Square fence?
>
> Thanks,
> Barry
I was building some vertical storage bins for framing fillet
recently and had to cut 1/4" dados in FULL sheets of MDF for
the backing... 3" apart. I cut 4 sheets in an hour and a
half. Could you do that with a router as quickly??? ;-)
Oh, yah, no dust!
Dave.
David Binkowski wrote:
> Can someone explain to me the fascination with dado blades on table saws?
> I use a router for all dados (it SEEMS easier). All woodworkers have at
> least one router, so why do people use table saws for dados ?
>
> "Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>It's a good point and one I have considered a lot. Probably the reason I
>
> am
>
>>asking a group so I can separate and distinguish my wants from my needs.
>
> If
>
>>all I have is a shop with a great table saw, I'm not going to be able to
>
> do
>
>>much. There will be more funds in the near future but what will I do
>
> until
>
>>then? I have some nice hand tools, Japanese chisels, LN 4 1/2 plane, and
>
> a
>
>>few other items. but I am using a router table for a jointer which is not
>>very suitable. I need some better squares and clamps etc. not to mention
>>WOOD, it's not cheap.
>>
>>On the other hand maybe it is better to get this one big item
>
> out-of-the-way
>
>>so I never have to consider it again, and slowly build a shop of only
>>quality items over time.
>>
>>I've heard of people subsituting a quality band-saw and using it for a
>>table-saw duty, that is what laguana seems to suggest on their band saw
>>video. But I don't see how that could work, small table, no dado, table
>>tilts instead of blade, lateral limitation by yoke of band saw, I just
>
> don't
>
>>see that working out.
>>
>>It's a tough question, and it makes me realize how expensive this hobby
>
> is.
>
>>Thanks for your input.
>>
>>Marc
>>
>>"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>.....
>>
>>
>>>5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least
>>>another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will
>>>need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages,
>>>markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're
>>>darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision
>>>work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.?
>>>Got Money? <tm>
>>>
>>......
>>
>>
>
>
>
:-) Yep, a full 4X8 sheet of 3/4 MDF on a 2X6 frame for
outfeed, and a workbench ahead of the saw at the same
height. The 52" fence required a LONG table extension that
does the rest! I have a 36-650 CS in the middle of all
that! :-) Does a great job.
Dave.
Mark Jerde wrote:
> Dave wrote:
>
>>I was building some vertical storage bins for framing fillet
>>recently and had to cut 1/4" dados in FULL sheets of MDF for
>>the backing... 3" apart. I cut 4 sheets in an hour and a
>>half. Could you do that with a router as quickly??? ;-)
>>Oh, yah, no dust!
>
>
> FULL 4x8' sheets? You must have a great outfeed / infeed / side support
> system. Or do you have one of those European monsters with the sliding
> table attached?
>
> -- Mark
>
>
Marc wrote:
> Right now I am leaning
> toward just putting about $2000 into a good cabinet saw, dado set,
> portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a 220 outlet. If
> you think there is a better way to go please give me your advice
> before I make an expensive mistake.
If I had the space and that budget, I'd consider two contractor saws.
Ideally one left tilt and the other right tilt. No doubt one of them would
have the dado set installed more or less permanently. I'd use my dado a LOT
more if it wasn't for the time to change blades, and the fact "normal" TS
rips and crosscuts can't be done when my TS has the dado in.
-- Mark
In article <[email protected]>,
Michael Baglio <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote:
>
>
>Michael
>Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is
>building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every
>other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those.
>Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout
>doit.
I think I've got you beat for 'power density', at least on the 110 side.
In my _kitchen_, I've got *THIRTY* 110 outlets (1 quad for every 3' of counter,
plus a duplex for (A) the refrigerator, (b) the freezer, (c) motorized
partition to the DR. Only 1 220v though, for the stove. But, we're talking
88 sq ft 'gross', and only about 30 sq ft 'open' after appliances and counters.
(I've got ten separate circuits feeding only the kitchen. there's only 8 for
the _rest_ of the condo.)
>
>The ability to plug something in right HERE, and not have to settle
>for "over there": Priceless. :)
ABSOLUTELY!!!
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I plan to use the saw for a
>lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
>will only be in my spare time and weekends.
I would never suggest that anyone buy below their WANTS because we all
have something we go "over the top" on. I certainly do-- read the
electrical set-up below my signature. ;> Having said that, my opinion
is: get a top-of-the-line contractor's saw. Why?
1.) While it's true that one should avoid the "pretend" table saws
that are available for under $200 at Sears, Home Depot and, (for all I
know), Toys-BackwardsR-Us, it's equally true that there are a lot more
cabinet saws in hobbyist's shops than there are cabinet-saw quality
hobbyists using them.
2.) If, as you state, precision and a perfect fit are your goals as a
beginner, then you will achieve them faster and continue reaching them
longer by buying the best contractor saw you can afford and putting
the other 800 to 1000 dollars into a week's worth of education at a
good woodworking school. It isn't the brush that paints the picture,
it's the artist. Studying with people who really know their craft is
priceless.
3.) We-- (Americans)-- put too much emphasis on tablesaws, anyway.
An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
as their weapon of choice. Consider that with the exception of
dadoing, everything you do on a table saw is going to be only the
first step in the overall process of dimensioning lumber. Other
machinery or hand tools are going to be required to dress out what you
cut. It's in those stages that you achieve the precision you're
looking for. (Cutting plywood doesn't qualify here, either.
Precision plywood cutting for panels, backs and bottoms is dependent
on a quality fence and proper feeding technique, not a "quality"
cabinet saw.)
4.) Should you decide, in the future that you just can't get through a
project without cutting lotso 3" thick Maple and you just gotta have
more horseys, you'll be glad to have a second saw to use as a
dedicated Dado machine. Think of how cool you'll be in your
neighborhood as the only guy with not one, but two tablesaws.
5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least
another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will
need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages,
markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're
darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision
work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.?
Got Money? <tm>
Michael
Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is
building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every
other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those.
Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout
doit.
12X16 Building materials: $2500
All the above electrical capacity: $300 and counting.
The ability to plug something in right HERE, and not have to settle
for "over there": Priceless. :)
You can do excellent woodworking without a good cabinet saw, but after you
own a good cabinet saw, you wonder _why_ you would want to.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Michael Daly" wrote in message
> On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio <mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience.
>
> > An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
> > as their weapon of choice.
>
> While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks
overemphasize
> the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life.
"Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked
before
> (I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
> specific and up-to-date input.
>
If you've got the room, money and 220V - then go for a cabinet saw.
Pragmatically speaking, you'll never long for more (unless you're into
industrial gear). If you "settle" for a contractor saw, there's a chance
you'll be content and a good chance you'll wish you'd had spent the extra
money.
Like you - I stick a "cheap" toe in the water when I start a new hobby. I
too blew $200 on the Craftsman bench saw. After becoming convinced that I
enjoyed it, I went "hybrid" (more contractor than cabinet) because I didn't
have the room and didn't have 220V.
I'd start working in Excel and seeing how much you can get for your $2000
with a cabinet saw. The other decision you'll want to make early is whether
you go for 52" rails or 30". That'll affect your portable base investment
too.
These things seem to hold their value, fairly well. I take solace knowing
that the buck I invest in quality tools means (1) my children, should they
show an interest, will have them and (2) I could sell them and recoup enough
of my initial outlay to take the sting away.
What contractor saws are better quality than which cabinet saws? Are you
refering to grizzly or craftsman? I've been told they are pretty high
quality overall except for the fence, and they decent comparisons with other
cabinet saws in "wood" magazine (I think it was wood).
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw.
> A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks
> good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more
> accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality
> contractor saws than cabinet saws.
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:33:01 GMT, "David Binkowski"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>Can someone explain to me the fascination with dado blades on table saws?
>I use a router for all dados (it SEEMS easier). All woodworkers have at
>least one router, so why do people use table saws for dados ?
>
I've done it both ways, and I found the tablesaw to be more precise
and faster setup.
There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw.
A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks
good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more
accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality
contractor saws than cabinet saws.
I envision Keith under the belly of some rusty monster so often, I bet
he gets a tetanus shot every six months to protect himself.
dave
Bob S. wrote:
> shoulda known that was comin.......;-)
>
> Bob S.
>
> "Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Buy used machinery.
>>
>>UA100
>
>
>
And to me, a router for "edge" jointing seems very logical to use.
Methinks even cleaner cuts are possible than with a large, much slower
jointer blade. I don't know how many RPMs the jointer runs at, but I'd
hazard a guess that it can't safely run as fast as a 1/2" straight bit in a
router. Hence, straighter cleaner edges.
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> It's a good point and one I have considered a lot. Probably the reason I
am
> asking a group so I can separate and distinguish my wants from my needs.
If
> all I have is a shop with a great table saw, I'm not going to be able to
do
> much. There will be more funds in the near future but what will I do
until
> then? I have some nice hand tools, Japanese chisels, LN 4 1/2 plane, and
a
> few other items. but I am using a router table for a jointer which is not
> very suitable. I need some better squares and clamps etc. not to mention
> WOOD, it's not cheap.
>
> On the other hand maybe it is better to get this one big item
out-of-the-way
> so I never have to consider it again, and slowly build a shop of only
> quality items over time.
>
> I've heard of people subsituting a quality band-saw and using it for a
> table-saw duty, that is what laguana seems to suggest on their band saw
> video. But I don't see how that could work, small table, no dado, table
> tilts instead of blade, lateral limitation by yoke of band saw, I just
don't
> see that working out.
>
> It's a tough question, and it makes me realize how expensive this hobby
is.
>
> Thanks for your input.
>
> Marc
>
> "Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> .....
>
> >
> > 5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least
> > another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will
> > need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages,
> > markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're
> > darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision
> > work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.?
> > Got Money? <tm>
> >
>
> ......
>
>
I read a comparison and general rated very high, but I can't find much
information on general. Does the manufacture have a website? Is there a
dealer in the dallas-ft worth area?
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Take a look at the General from Canada... I own a Unisaw, but I would give
> the _Canadian_ made General a hard look if I had to buy again.
>
>
http://www.kmstools.com/scripts/products/product.php?GEN-350T50M2M&2%3C-%3E172%3C-%3E166<->175
>
> Just to give you a look at it.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03
>
> "Marc" <wrote in message
>
> > If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it
> would
> > be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a
cabinet
> > saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case
> (deltax
> > or powermatic)
>
>
You know, I've debated this issue myself. And I'm almost to the conclusion
that I can do any heavy ripping on my bandsaw anyway. Would I really need
a 3 HP+ motor on a table saw since I'd mostly be using it for finish quality
cuts
and joints ? My 1.5 HP Delta would take care of any rips up to 6" thick,
with
no risk of burning. All I'd have to do is plane it afterwards, and some
have to
do that to wood cut on their table saws anyway.
I still love the idea of buying myself a nice cabinet, but I'm thinking as
far as a
table saw goes, a beefy contractor (+two iron wings) would give me enough
stability and power to do all I will need. I'm not terribly satisfied with
the
state of table saws and how they work right now either. Its
counterintuitive
to think I can actually use it without being injured or at least frightened
to the
point of soiling myself.
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"JackD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > > It boils down to the
> > > question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor
or
> > > cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?
> >
> >
> > Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference.
> >
> > If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a
> > difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the
> > contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up
> > front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only
> once
> > did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took
> me
> > longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference.
> > Ed
>
> My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state....
>
> -Jack
>
>
[email protected] wrote:
>>Never tell SWMBO that you can build quality stuff with "middle of the
>>road" tools. :)
>
>
> Any SWMBO with kids will readily tell you she did.
OOohhhhhh
That's Cruel!
Funny too.
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)
In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] says...
> I read a comparison and general rated very high, but I can't find much
> information on general. Does the manufacture have a website?
http://www.general.ca/
CharlesJ
--
========================================================================
Charles Jones | Works at HP, | email: [email protected]
Hewlett-Packard | doesn't speak | ICQ: 29610755
Loveland, Colorado | for HP | AIM: LovelandCharles
USA | |Jabber: [email protected]
Dave wrote:
> I was building some vertical storage bins for framing fillet
> recently and had to cut 1/4" dados in FULL sheets of MDF for
> the backing... 3" apart. I cut 4 sheets in an hour and a
> half. Could you do that with a router as quickly??? ;-)
> Oh, yah, no dust!
FULL 4x8' sheets? You must have a great outfeed / infeed / side support
system. Or do you have one of those European monsters with the sliding
table attached?
-- Mark
It's been 2 whole days...48 hours...and you haven't made sawdust yet? Don't
tell us you took time out to sleep in the last 2 days. lol
"Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for everyones advice and comments. I bought a right-tilt Delta
> x-unisaw with a 50 inch Beis at the Arlington TX woodworking show this
last
> weekend. I'm satisfied with my decision and look forward to using the
saw.
>
> Marc
>
> "Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked
> before
> > (I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
> > specific and up-to-date input.
> >
> > I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I
> have
> > read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess
> boards,
> > boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools.
> I
> > have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools.
> > Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a
hobby
> I
> > go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try
to
> go
> > quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw
> > (unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If
I
> go
> > with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of
money
> > for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a
> > situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the
> > question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
> > cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just
for
> > production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and
better
> > suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a
> > grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost
the
> > same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a
good
> > cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and
a
> > 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me
your
> > advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
> > lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but
it
> > will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
> > difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
> > Any advice would be appreciated.
> >
> >
>
>
Ditto, Go For It
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
> woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument
> otherwise accepted.
>
> You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you
> will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing,
you
> will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind
> that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and
> concentrate on the creation.
>
> Guaranteed ....
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03
>
> "Marc" wrote in message
>
> > same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a
good
> > cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and
a
> > 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me
your
> > advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
> > lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but
it
> > will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
> > difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
> > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>
Don't contractor saws and cabinet saws take up about the same amount of
space?
"mttt" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
> > Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked
> before
> > (I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
> > specific and up-to-date input.
.................
>
> Like you - I stick a "cheap" toe in the water when I start a new hobby. I
> too blew $200 on the Craftsman bench saw. After becoming convinced that I
> enjoyed it, I went "hybrid" (more contractor than cabinet) because I
didn't
> have the room and didn't have 220V.
.................
>
>
Really, I'm surprised. Is that just a strong brand preference or is the
powermatic contractor saw just plain better?
"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'd rather have a Powermatic contractor tablesaw than a Craftsman
> cabinet saw.
I think the problem may be that some people see the BS simply as
an overgrown scroll saw. At the wood shows I've gone to, both at
the same place, the demos were all novelties done with the tiniest
blades possible, showing tight, mazelike curves being cut in a block
of wood. Not good advertizing for a BS. They should have shown
resawing an 11" hard maple log into boards or something. The
Laguna demos were a bit more inspirational, showing basic jointing
on the BS, starting with an irregular block of wood, creating the
first flat side, then moving on to joint the thing into a dimensional
piece of wood. Since the table/blade/fence are all set at 90 degree
and 0 degree angles to one another, its not hard to imagine how
easy that is to do.
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
"Michael Daly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio <mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience.
>
> > An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
> > as their weapon of choice.
>
> While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks
overemphasize
> the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life.
> Even router tables are made to look more like a TS than a router. Why
> should a RT fence be parallel to the edge of the table? The router is
> not a linear device like a TS - the fence can go at _any_ angle!
>
> > Consider that with the exception of dadoing,
>
> This could be done with a router. And a decent router is comparable in
> cost to a decent dado blade kit for a TS.
>
> I got a bandsaw, based on my needs (mostly boatbuilding based). I can
> do most things that I can think of with this except cut really wide pieces
> of wood (like sheets of plywood/MDf/etc). Crosscuts I do with a hand
> saw.
>
> I also was infuenced by the FWW 1st annual Tools&Shops issue, where Gary
> Rogowski suggests that your first power tool should be a BS (unless your
> needs are cutting wide chunks of wood).
>
> It seems to me that a lot of folks could make good use of a BS and RT to
> do more than a TS could. I can cut thru 6" of wood more easily than with
> a TS - that would require me to cut, flip over and cut again. The BS is
> a substitute for a scroll saw, as long as curves aren't too tight. The
> router will allow plunge cut dadoes and grooves rather than the continuous
> versions that most TS users get. Much neater than having a groove
> sticking out the end of a hunk of wood.
>
> If I needed to cut plywood/MDF/etc (in the short term given my _very_
> limited budget), I'd probably go for a decent straightedge and circ
> saw and use the BS for everything once the big sheets are down to size.
> But that would suit my needs, possibly not many others'.
>
> Anyway, if you need a TS, it's an excellent tool. But I wonder if some
> folks focus on the TS too much.
>
> Mike
shoulda known that was comin.......;-)
Bob S.
"Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Buy used machinery.
>
> UA100
On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio <mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience.
> An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
> as their weapon of choice.
While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks overemphasize
the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life.
Even router tables are made to look more like a TS than a router. Why
should a RT fence be parallel to the edge of the table? The router is
not a linear device like a TS - the fence can go at _any_ angle!
> Consider that with the exception of dadoing,
This could be done with a router. And a decent router is comparable in
cost to a decent dado blade kit for a TS.
I got a bandsaw, based on my needs (mostly boatbuilding based). I can
do most things that I can think of with this except cut really wide pieces
of wood (like sheets of plywood/MDf/etc). Crosscuts I do with a hand
saw.
I also was infuenced by the FWW 1st annual Tools&Shops issue, where Gary
Rogowski suggests that your first power tool should be a BS (unless your
needs are cutting wide chunks of wood).
It seems to me that a lot of folks could make good use of a BS and RT to
do more than a TS could. I can cut thru 6" of wood more easily than with
a TS - that would require me to cut, flip over and cut again. The BS is
a substitute for a scroll saw, as long as curves aren't too tight. The
router will allow plunge cut dadoes and grooves rather than the continuous
versions that most TS users get. Much neater than having a groove
sticking out the end of a hunk of wood.
If I needed to cut plywood/MDF/etc (in the short term given my _very_
limited budget), I'd probably go for a decent straightedge and circ
saw and use the BS for everything once the big sheets are down to size.
But that would suit my needs, possibly not many others'.
Anyway, if you need a TS, it's an excellent tool. But I wonder if some
folks focus on the TS too much.
Mike
Marc wrote:
> It boils down to the
> question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
> cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?
IMO, it boils down to different questions:
Are you good enough to work around the weakness of the tool? Or will
you get angry and blame the tool for your failures?
Look at the 'Desk' project on this site:
http://home.cogeco.ca/~akropinski/Gallery.htm
It's gorgeous!
Then look at his workshop. He's got a Craftsman table saw.
Anybody who says you can't build nice stuff with middle-of-the-road
tools is a sad excuse for a woodworker. It's just a matter of how
much YOU want to spend on tools ($$$) and how much time/effort YOU
want to spend working around the weaknesses of your tools.
Bottom line:
The craftsman makes the furniture...the tools are just
along for the ride.
--
************************************
Chris Merrill
[email protected]
(remove the ZZZ to contact me)
************************************
I envision Keith under the belly of some rusty monster so often, I bet
he gets a tetnus shot every six months to protect himself.
dave
Bob S. wrote:
> shoulda known that was comin.......;-)
>
> Bob S.
>
> "Unisaw A100" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Buy used machinery.
>>
>>UA100
>
>
>
It's a good point and one I have considered a lot. Probably the reason I am
asking a group so I can separate and distinguish my wants from my needs. If
all I have is a shop with a great table saw, I'm not going to be able to do
much. There will be more funds in the near future but what will I do until
then? I have some nice hand tools, Japanese chisels, LN 4 1/2 plane, and a
few other items. but I am using a router table for a jointer which is not
very suitable. I need some better squares and clamps etc. not to mention
WOOD, it's not cheap.
On the other hand maybe it is better to get this one big item out-of-the-way
so I never have to consider it again, and slowly build a shop of only
quality items over time.
I've heard of people subsituting a quality band-saw and using it for a
table-saw duty, that is what laguana seems to suggest on their band saw
video. But I don't see how that could work, small table, no dado, table
tilts instead of blade, lateral limitation by yoke of band saw, I just don't
see that working out.
It's a tough question, and it makes me realize how expensive this hobby is.
Thanks for your input.
Marc
"Michael Baglio @nc.rr.com>" <mbaglio<NOSPAM> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 17:26:40 GMT, "Marc"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
.....
>
> 5, and finally.) It will, (or should, anyway) cost you at least
> another several hundred dollars for the quality support tools you will
> need to reach the precision you say you demand. Squares, guages,
> markers, chisels, planes, etc., aren't cheap. Matter o' fact they're
> darned pricey. Are they in your budget? Can't do quality precision
> work without them. What about Jointers, Planers, etc.?
> Got Money? <tm>
>
......
yep, I love the "life is too short" argument. Only problem is I've over
used it a bit.
"Charles" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Buy the best you can afford and have fun. Life is too short not to have
> fun.
>
> Good tools are a delight to use and, in the right hands, make projects
> more enjoyable. I have a Dela Unisaw. My only regret is not having a
> garage big enough.
Never tell SWMBO that you can build quality stuff with "middle of the
road" tools. :)
dave
Chris Merrill wrote:
> Marc wrote:
>
>> It boils down to the
>> question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
>> cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?
>
>
> IMO, it boils down to different questions:
> Are you good enough to work around the weakness of the tool? Or will
> you get angry and blame the tool for your failures?
>
> Look at the 'Desk' project on this site:
> http://home.cogeco.ca/~akropinski/Gallery.htm
> It's gorgeous!
>
> Then look at his workshop. He's got a Craftsman table saw.
> Anybody who says you can't build nice stuff with middle-of-the-road
> tools is a sad excuse for a woodworker. It's just a matter of how
> much YOU want to spend on tools ($$$) and how much time/effort YOU
> want to spend working around the weaknesses of your tools.
>
> Bottom line:
> The craftsman makes the furniture...the tools are just
> along for the ride.
>
>
Take a look at the General from Canada... I own a Unisaw, but I would give
the _Canadian_ made General a hard look if I had to buy again.
http://www.kmstools.com/scripts/products/product.php?GEN-350T50M2M&2%3C-%3E172%3C-%3E166<->175
Just to give you a look at it.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 9/21/03
"Marc" <wrote in message
> If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it
would
> be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a cabinet
> saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case
(deltax
> or powermatic)
The answer to both of your questions is easy: "no" and "no".
However, my question, I am still having difficulty answering.
"Chris Merrill" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Marc wrote:
> > It boils down to the
> > question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
> > cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?
>
> IMO, it boils down to different questions:
> Are you good enough to work around the weakness of the tool? Or will
> you get angry and blame the tool for your failures?
>
On 13-Nov-2003, "JackD" <[email protected]> wrote:
> I find it quite useful for ripping wood precisely. The blade doesn't wander
> like it would on a bandsaw.
I'll take your word on this. It seems that many get good results
with a good TS. However, the few bits I've seen done by folks I know
are usually no better (often worse) than my BS. However, they are not
woodworkers with considerable talent and/or use poor quality or poorly
adjusted stuff. It has given me the preconceived notion that a TS makes
a really rough cut.
> Ripping at an angle can be hairy on a bandsaw, but on a TS it is no problem
> because the work stays flat and the blade tilts.
I've ripped a big chunk of quarter sawn oak at an angle and it was very hairy
only because I couldn't use the fence. I was cutting to follow the grain
and had to follow the curve of the trunk just below the bark.
If cutting with one side straight, it's not so bad, since I rest it against
the fence. If long, supporting the free end on edge is a PITA. I could
see a TS being better.
I'm not trying to rag the TS, just say that there seems to be such a strong
emphasis on the tool at the expense of what might be a better tool for
some tasks.
Example - I'm fixing up an old oak dresser and instead of M&T joints at the
back, they put a long groove down the vertical bits (stile?) and stuck tenons
on the horizontal bits. The tenons were glued into the groove and the glue is
now letting go - so gravity takes over. This is an example to me of someone
choosing a TS over a morticer or router and creating a sloppy result.
Mike
"Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> > It boils down to the
> > question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
> > cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?
>
>
> Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference.
>
> If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a
> difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the
> contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up
> front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only
once
> did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took
me
> longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference.
> Ed
My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state....
-Jack
Between High School and the end of my college years I worked for a sign
shop where I eventually got to regularly use an enormous 14" table
(cabinet) saw. It was 5HP with 5 belt drive. That was my first
experience using table saws.
Graduated from college, bought a house, then a table saw. I got
the then Rockwell contractors saw (10" open base 1.5 HP motor)
That was 20 years ago. 3 months ago I finally got a cabinet saw,
a Delta Unisaw.
The difference between the two is quite noticeable. It is a
pleasure to use and it was well worth the investment to me. I did quite
a bit of wood working over those 20 years with the contractors saw.
I expect that the quality of my work might improve a little with the new
saw, but not much.
I never regretted getting the Rockwell since it was all I could afford
at the time. It has served me quite well.
"Michael Daly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 13-Nov-2003, Michael Baglio <mbaglio<NOSPAM>@nc.rr.com> wrote:
>
> My $0.02, based on observation as a newbie, rather than experience.
>
> > An awful lot of this world does just fine with a really good bandsaw
> > as their weapon of choice.
>
> While a beginner without a table saw, I often think that folks
overemphasize
> the TS. Sorta like the "if all you have is a hammer..." approach to life.
> Even router tables are made to look more like a TS than a router. Why
> should a RT fence be parallel to the edge of the table? The router is
> not a linear device like a TS - the fence can go at _any_ angle!
>
> > Consider that with the exception of dadoing,
>
> This could be done with a router. And a decent router is comparable in
> cost to a decent dado blade kit for a TS.
>
> I got a bandsaw, based on my needs (mostly boatbuilding based). I can
> do most things that I can think of with this except cut really wide pieces
> of wood (like sheets of plywood/MDf/etc). Crosscuts I do with a hand
> saw.
>
> I also was infuenced by the FWW 1st annual Tools&Shops issue, where Gary
> Rogowski suggests that your first power tool should be a BS (unless your
> needs are cutting wide chunks of wood).
>
> It seems to me that a lot of folks could make good use of a BS and RT to
> do more than a TS could. I can cut thru 6" of wood more easily than with
> a TS - that would require me to cut, flip over and cut again. The BS is
> a substitute for a scroll saw, as long as curves aren't too tight. The
> router will allow plunge cut dadoes and grooves rather than the continuous
> versions that most TS users get. Much neater than having a groove
> sticking out the end of a hunk of wood.
>
> If I needed to cut plywood/MDF/etc (in the short term given my _very_
> limited budget), I'd probably go for a decent straightedge and circ
> saw and use the BS for everything once the big sheets are down to size.
> But that would suit my needs, possibly not many others'.
>
> Anyway, if you need a TS, it's an excellent tool. But I wonder if some
> folks focus on the TS too much.
>
> Mike
I find it quite useful for ripping wood precisely. The blade doesn't wander
like it would on a bandsaw.
Ripping at an angle can be hairy on a bandsaw, but on a TS it is no problem
because the work stays flat and the blade tilts.
It can also make bigger cross-cuts than I can make with a chop saw.
Perhaps it is just that I have never worked with a really good bandsaw, but
I find that cutting with a tablesaw is just more accurate due to the stiffer
blade.
-Jack
"David Binkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
|
| I think the problem may be that some people see the BS
| simply as an overgrown scroll saw.
That's the pretext under which I bought mine. It wasn't until I'd owned it
for a year or so that I figured out you could use the darned thing to cut in
a straight line. It was another three years before I got adept enough at
using all the guides and tuning all the adjustments to even start to use the
thing in the way it's supposed to be used. And now that I feel more
comfortable with it, I want a better one. Had I known what I'd be using it
for, I'd have sprung for a better model.
| They should have shown resawing an 11" hard maple log into
| boards or something.
I saw a guy cutting his own veneer with his bandsaw. He was just happily
shaving off 1/16" thicknesses of birdseye maple.
--Jay
Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
> Never tell SWMBO that you can build quality stuff with "middle of the
> road" tools. :)
Any SWMBO with kids will readily tell you she did.
Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.
"Michael Daly" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 13-Nov-2003, "JackD" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > I find it quite useful for ripping wood precisely. The blade doesn't
wander
> > like it would on a bandsaw.
>
> I'll take your word on this. It seems that many get good results
> with a good TS. However, the few bits I've seen done by folks I know
> are usually no better (often worse) than my BS. However, they are not
> woodworkers with considerable talent and/or use poor quality or poorly
> adjusted stuff. It has given me the preconceived notion that a TS makes
> a really rough cut.
Smooth as glass actually. My experience is the opposite of yours.
> > Ripping at an angle can be hairy on a bandsaw, but on a TS it is no
problem
> > because the work stays flat and the blade tilts.
>
> I've ripped a big chunk of quarter sawn oak at an angle and it was very
hairy
> only because I couldn't use the fence. I was cutting to follow the grain
> and had to follow the curve of the trunk just below the bark.
I'm not saying it is not possible, but big pieces on a tilted table follow
the laws of gravity.
A table saw will never be able to follow the curve of the trunk (or any
curve) though. That is why I'd like to have a bandsaw.
> Example - I'm fixing up an old oak dresser and instead of M&T joints at
the
> back, they put a long groove down the vertical bits (stile?) and stuck
tenons
> on the horizontal bits. The tenons were glued into the groove and the
glue is
> now letting go - so gravity takes over. This is an example to me of
someone
> choosing a TS over a morticer or router and creating a sloppy result.
Sounds like poor design rather than a tool limitation. I cut real tenons on
the table saw. It works great. A band saw would work just as well. Neither
one of them does very well chopping mortises however...
-Jack
David Binkowski wrote:
> Can someone explain to me the fascination with dado blades on table
> saws? I use a router for all dados (it SEEMS easier). All
> woodworkers have at least one router, so why do people use table saws
> for dados ?
I thought exactly the same thing. But when building a bookcase for my
teenage daughter I needed to make a bunch of 3/4" dados. The ones on the
ends of the up and down parts would be no problem on my router table, but
the ones in the middle would have required demounting my DW 621 from the
router table. So I took the time to set up my dado in the table saw.
Wow! It cut much faster than the router! I didn't have to make two or
three passes to get the cuts as deep as desired, one pass through the dado
on my dado-enabled Grizzly contractor saw worked peachy keen. It was no
more a problem to cut the dados in the middle of the 4' board than the ends!
The fantasy shop of my dreams has (at least <g>) three table saws. My
current Grizzly contractor saw is the permanent "just a shade under 3/4"
dado" saw for cutting dados for plywood shelves. A fantasy right-tilt
cabinet saw has a sliding table attachment. A fantasy left-tilt cabinet saw
with a long fence lets me rip a 4x8' sheet anywhere I durn well please.
Back in the real world of my single car garage shop and my single Griz saw,
for certain cuts I take the time to mount the dado.
-- Mark
Thanks, good advice I don't want to look back I'm bad about looking back
and wondering what if.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
> woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument
> otherwise accepted.
>
> You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you
> will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing,
you
> will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind
> that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and
> concentrate on the creation.
>
> Guaranteed ....
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 9/21/03
>
> "Marc" wrote in message
>
> > same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a
good
> > cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and
a
> > 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me
your
> > advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
> > lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but
it
> > will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
> > difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
> > Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 19:59:43 +0000, Marc wrote:
> Don't contractor saws and cabinet saws take up about the same amount of
> space?
>
Contractor saws take up more space than cabinet saws 'cause of the motor
hanging out the back. The DeWalt and Jet hybrids are contractor type saws
with the motor inside the frame which makes for a cabinet saw footprint.
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:30:58 -0700, Charles Jones <[email protected]>
wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>,
>[email protected] says...
>> I read a comparison and general rated very high, but I can't find much
>> information on general. Does the manufacture have a website?
>
>http://www.general.ca/
>
>CharlesJ
Anybody have any comments about General's T-Square fence?
Thanks,
Barry
That, in a nutshell, sums up about two-zillion Google posts. But now,
you'll get to read the other side of the story..
Let the games begin....
Bob S.
PS - I own a cabinet saw
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Unquestionably, irrevocably, inarguably, IF you are serous about
> woodworking, go for a CABINET SAW .. hands down, NO question, NO argument
> otherwise accepted.
>
> You will NOT be sorry if you buy the best CABINET SAW you can afford, you
> will NOT look back, you will NOT wonder whether you did the right thing,
you
> will NOT kick yourself for doing so, there will be NO doubt in your mind
> that it was a smart move, because you CAN then forget about the tool and
> concentrate on the creation.
>
> Guaranteed ....
>
I'd rather have a Powermatic contractor tablesaw than a Craftsman
cabinet saw. Another point to make it more confusing, there are
"hybrid saws" that have properties of both contractor and cabinet.
I'd recommend the Grizzly G1023S which is an icredible buy at $800 and
close to the cost of a Powermatic 64A which is a very good contractor
saw.
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:05:05 GMT, "Marc"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>What contractor saws are better quality than which cabinet saws? Are you
>refering to grizzly or craftsman? I've been told they are pretty high
>quality overall except for the fence, and they decent comparisons with other
>cabinet saws in "wood" magazine (I think it was wood).
>
>"Phisherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> There's a BIG difference between a cabinet saw and a contractor saw.
>> A contractor saw is lighter (more flimsy) for portability, and lacks
>> good dust collection. A heavier machine has less vibration for a more
>> accurate cut. Keep in mind, though, that there are better quality
>> contractor saws than cabinet saws.
>
In article <[email protected]>,
Marc <[email protected]> wrote:
>Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked before
>(I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
>specific and up-to-date input.
>
>I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I have
>read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess boards,
>boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools. I
>have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools.
>Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a hobby I
>go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try to go
>quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw
>(unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If I go
>with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of money
>for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a
>situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the
>question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
>cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just for
>production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and better
>suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a
>grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost the
>same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good
>cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a
>220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your
>advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
>lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
>will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
>difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
>Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>
It is almost *never* a "mistake" to 'over buy' on tooling. If you buy
a "better grade than you can make use of" you'll never be dissatisfied
with the _tool_.
There are really only about two _major_ differences between a good
contractor saw, and a good cabinet saw. (There -is- a third one -- having
to do with the efficiency of a dust-collector hook-up; cabinet saws *are*
notably better at containing sawdust, but that is rarely a 'deal breaker'
consideration.)
Difference #1: "Power." Contractor saws tend to max out at around 2HP,
while cabinet saws are often 3HP, or sometimes 5HP. The question to
consider is "do you _need_ that extra horsepower?" Which depends utterly
on what you'll be doing -- you can cut -anything- on a low-power saw, if
you're willing to go 'slow enough'. If you're "only rarely" dealing with
softwood stock thicker than nominal 2", or hardwoods over 1" to maybe 1-1/2",
the 'extra power' available with the bigger HP saw is *not* likely to get
called on. OTOH, if you -do- plan to spend significant amounts of time
working 'thick' stock, the bigger motor *will* be helpful.
Difference #2: trunnion 'architecture'. Without going into the 'gory details',
let it suffice to say that this affects how well the saw 'holds' its set-up,
and the ease with which one can tune it to the optimal settings. Again,
cabinet saws are ahead on this one, But, on _any_ quality saw that doesn't
get banged around, this is something you do "once in a blue moon" -- if that
often. In 'normal', hobbiest, use, it will usually be many, *many* years
before the blade set-up needs adjusting a 2nd time.
Once you've got them set up, and 'tuned', there's little "functional"
difference between the two types, *UNLESS* you're cutting big hard lumber.
One last *possible* consideration -- I've never seen a contractor saw
with a blade bigger than 10". Cabinet saws _are_ available with bigger
blades (although at a considerable cost increment); my H.S. shop had two
cabinet saws -- a 'normal' 10" one, and an "industrial size" monster, which
had a 16" blade.
Thanks for everyones advice and comments. I bought a right-tilt Delta
x-unisaw with a 50 inch Beis at the Arlington TX woodworking show this last
weekend. I'm satisfied with my decision and look forward to using the saw.
Marc
"Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ok, I am know various permutations of this question have been asked
before
> (I've done google searchs and read reviews), but I still need some more
> specific and up-to-date input.
>
> I am building a wood working shop,. Over the course of a year or so I
have
> read books on woodworking, watched NYW on TV, and I have built chess
boards,
> boxes, and a workbench, mostly simple stuff with relatively cheap tools.
I
> have decided I like the hobby and want to invest in some quality tools.
> Currently I have a $200 portable craftsman table saw. Usually in a hobby
I
> go as cheap as possible until I decide if I like it or not, then I try to
go
> quality so I don't re-buy. So I am going to buy either a cabinet saw
> (unisaw, powermatic, grizzly, shop fox, etc.) or a contractor saw. If I
go
> with a good contractor saw like deltaX 36-507x I'll have plenty of money
> for other things but I don't want to do that if I am putting myself in a
> situation where I need to upgrade in the future. It boils down to the
> question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor or
> cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use? Are cabinet saws mostly just for
> production type work in a cabinet shop or are they more precise and better
> suited for a hobbyist who wants to only make a few fine pieces? Is a
> grizzly cabinet saw better buy than a deltaX contractor saw (they cost the
> same)? Right now I am leaning toward just putting about $2000 into a good
> cabinet saw, dado set, portable base, and tenon jig. I have the room and a
> 220 outlet. If you think there is a better way to go please give me your
> advice before I make an expensive mistake. I plan to use the saw for a
> lifetime and make everything from furniture to a doghouse with it, but it
> will only be in my spare time and weekends. I don't know if it makes a
> difference but I am very big on precision, I like things to fit perfect.
> Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 04:10:14 GMT, "David Binkowski"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>You know, I've debated this issue myself. And I'm almost to the conclusion
>that I can do any heavy ripping on my bandsaw anyway. Would I really need
>a 3 HP+ motor on a table saw since I'd mostly be using it for finish quality
>cuts
>and joints ? My 1.5 HP Delta would take care of any rips up to 6" thick,
>with
>no risk of burning. All I'd have to do is plane it afterwards, and some
>have to
>do that to wood cut on their table saws anyway.
>
>I still love the idea of buying myself a nice cabinet, but I'm thinking as
>far as a
>table saw goes, a beefy contractor (+two iron wings) would give me enough
>stability and power to do all I will need. I'm not terribly satisfied with
>the
>state of table saws and how they work right now either. Its
>counterintuitive
>to think I can actually use it without being injured or at least frightened
>to the
>point of soiling myself.
A bandsaw is an amazing versatile machine. If I were limited on
space, a bandsaw would be my choice. But, nothing rips better than a
tablesaw. Sure you can get injured, but I know a guy that lost his
finger on a bandsaw. Table saws have not changed much in the last 20
years, maybe people are less safety-minded. I feel less safe in a
vehicle, than when using my table saw.
Mark Jerde wrote:
> The fantasy shop of my dreams has (at least <g>) three table saws. My
Mine too. Or at least two. I don't even *have* a dado set yet, but I sure
could use one. I'm all the time doing multi-pass, clean-up-with-a-chisel
type stuff. One thing keeping me from buying a dado set (other than money)
is the thought that while my current method is tedious, at least I don't
have to screw with changing the blade. So... I'd like to have a dedicated
dado saw.
You can do so much with a table saw in that fashion. Even cut tenons
without bothering to build a tenoning jig. I think a dado set would be
very damn handy. Surely a lot easier than doing any of these jobs with a
router. Especially with *my* anemic, inaccurate, screaming piece of crap.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>Bay Area Dave <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Never tell SWMBO that you can build quality stuff with "middle of the
>> road" tools. :)
>
>Any SWMBO with kids will readily tell you she did.
>
>Bill Ranck
>Blacksburg, Va.
Q. Why did the chicken go to the middle of the road?
A. Because she wanted to lay it on the line.
In article <B%[email protected]>,
David Binkowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>And to me, a router for "edge" jointing seems very logical to use.
>Methinks even cleaner cuts are possible than with a large, much slower
>jointer blade. I don't know how many RPMs the jointer runs at, but I'd
>hazard a guess that it can't safely run as fast as a 1/2" straight bit in a
>router. Hence, straighter cleaner edges.
>
>
<...rest snipped...>
Actually if my arithmetic is OK the speed at the tip of the cutting
edge of a router bit and a jointer blade are in the same ballpark.
--
Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
[email protected]
On Thu, 13 Nov 2003 21:47:22 GMT, Nova <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> Who just moved and because of space and easement constraints is
>> building a leetle 12X16 shop and has a 4-outlet 110V box on every
>> other stud, and a 220V box about a foot off the floor below those.
>> Fifty-six(!) 110's and 14(!) 220s for 192 square feet. That outtabout
>> doit.
>
>How many circuit breakers? Code has a limit on the number of outlets allowed
>on a breaker.
Heh... whatever my electrician friend tells me I need, Jack. That'll
be the next trip to sLowe's. I haven't done any of this shop building
without some serious adult supervision. ;>
(Btw, I recall several months ago you responding to a request of mine
for general pricing guidelines on shop building materials. Iirc, you
quoted a friend's shop, recently built. That post really gave me a
lot of "go-for-it" that I didn't have previously. So, if I didn't
thank you, thanks. Youdaman.)
Michael
If I went with a grizzly it wouldn't be a $1000 difference, in fact it would
be about the same, but more than likely if I take the plunge on a cabinet
saw it would be fair to say it is about $1000 difference in my case (deltax
or powermatic)
"JackD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Marc" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > > It boils down to the
> > > question: will I be able to tell the difference between a contractor
or
> > > cabinet saw at a hobbyist level of use?
> >
> >
> > Depends. If you cut mostly 1" or less, now you will see no difference.
> >
> > If you are going to rip some 2" or 3" maple, yes, there will be a
> > difference. If you are only doing that type of work once a year, the
> > contractor saw will be suitable. If you do it often, spend the extra up
> > front. In the couple of years I've owned a Delta contractor saw, only
> once
> > did I think it would have been better to have more power. It just took
> me
> > longer to make the cuts. Not enough to justify the $1000 difference.
> > Ed
>
> My cabinet saw cost less than the difference that you state....
>
> -Jack
>
>