The local Woodcraft store here in Tulsa is down for a while.
We had an unexpected EF2 tornado early yesterday morning and the
Woodcraft store was in the path. I didn't see any pictures
of the store itself, but it is right next to the AT&T store
that was totally trashed. I don't expect it came out in
great shape. Fortunately there were no deaths, and no
life threatening injuries. In the middle of the night of
course there just weren't that many people out.
Bill
On 8/7/2017 12:50 PM, Bill Gill wrote:
> On 8/7/2017 8:40 AM, Sonny wrote:
>> On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 8:11:16 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
>>> The local Woodcraft store here in Tulsa is down for a while.
>>> We had an unexpected EF2 tornado early yesterday morning and the
>>> Woodcraft store was in the path. I didn't see any pictures
>>> of the store itself, but it is right next to the AT&T store
>>> that was totally trashed. I don't expect it came out in
>>> great shape. Fortunately there were no deaths, and no
>>> life threatening injuries. In the middle of the night of
>>> course there just weren't that many people out.
>>>
>>> Bill
>>
>> Saw that on the news.
>>
>> Kinna sounds inconsiderate, but, when appropriate(?), you might go
>> inquire about a pending(?) "fire sale".
>>
>> Sonny
>>
> I was thinking that when they reopen they have have a good
> sale.
>
> Bill
The best deal is to find out who is buying the contents now after the
insurance company is done. They often sell off the entire contents for
pennies on the dollar to people that deal in that stuff. Then it shows
up in flea markets and the like.
On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 1:00:48 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>=20
> I'm guessing the insurance company will keep tight reigns on all=20
> merchandise so they can sell it and recoup expenses.
IF it is in good condition, they will pack it up and sell it through anothe=
r outlet. No one wants to be responsible for possibly damaged equipment, n=
o one wants possible safety issues (real or imagined)generated by using pos=
sibly unsafe equipment, and no one wants to try to warrant a new purchase o=
f a damaged tool. A few saws, some hand tools, chisels and edged tools tha=
t have lost their temper are nothing to the big tools suppliers, especially=
when someone sues because they say they were damaged by an unsafe tool.
Scavenging doesn't work either. My fire restoration contractors buddies ar=
e often the only people allowed to enter a burned building. They are simpl=
y too unsafe, and no business owner wants some knothead in his mini van on =
a site full of damaged, sharp edged objects that are rusted, unstable and u=
nsafe. If you have not secured the site, the owner of the site's insurance=
is responsible for the nail that goes through a foot, the guy that stumble=
s and falls on debris and gets hurt, etc. Likewise, the victim of the fire=
can be further screwed by courts and insurance companies when they try to =
spread the liability by proving the victim didn't do his/her due diligence =
to secure the site.
I have quit asking my buds to slip out a tool or material from the burns th=
ey work on as they just can't do it as it is a transference of liability on=
to them. It all seems to be resting on the nature of the fire and how serio=
us it was. According to my contractors, the business owner can go back to =
the site and take what they want (excluding salvage for future resale, whic=
h will be replaced by insurance)as personal or business personal items. Th=
ey are covered by their insurance, but any transactions with scavengers ind=
icate they are open for business on some level, and the liability game is s=
tarted by attorneys.
So, I grind my teeth when there is a fire at the hardware store that ruins =
80% of the merchandise and the insurance company declares it a total loss. =
At that time neither no one has access to the merchandise as it is propert=
y (paid for) by the insurance company.
It gets better. As I have been warned, anything that is disposed of by me =
in a dumpster or put in a place that is accessible, I am responsible for cr=
eating "an attractive nuisance". If someone gets hurt dumpster diving or t=
aking apart a material pile and I don't have my dumpster locked (and I must=
have a high sided model) or if my debris pile isn't tarped and set off wit=
h yellow/orange warning tape, I am responsible for the guys that take my de=
bris piles apart. My insurance company now has told me not to give ANY scr=
aps to anyone that asks, and personally I just can't do it. I still give a=
way odd scraps of granite, sink cut outs, scraps of wood and plywood, paint=
, and other stuff that will rot in my yard before I get to using it.
Sorry for the loss of the WC, and best wishes to the owner for a successful=
restart. Maybe... if you can work a weekend together you guys can find so=
me goodies in the ashes. It is a common problem for burn sites to be looted=
and scavenged, so if you can work it correctly it might be a nice thing to=
grab some stuff and give the WC owner a few bucks. He will need them, no =
doubt.
Robert
On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 8:11:16 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
> The local Woodcraft store here in Tulsa is down for a while.
> We had an unexpected EF2 tornado early yesterday morning and the
> Woodcraft store was in the path. I didn't see any pictures
> of the store itself, but it is right next to the AT&T store
> that was totally trashed. I don't expect it came out in
> great shape. Fortunately there were no deaths, and no
> life threatening injuries. In the middle of the night of
> course there just weren't that many people out.
>
> Bill
Saw that on the news.
Kinna sounds inconsiderate, but, when appropriate(?), you might go inquire about a pending(?) "fire sale".
Sonny
On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 3:16:45 PM UTC-5, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
=20
> Your experience is similar to what I encountered with two serious fires.=
=20
> Both were considered total losses. We had people there 24 hours to=20
> keep vultures away. Admittance even to employees was limited for safety=
=20
> reasons. Once everything was inspected, cleared by the Fire Marshall we=
=20
> could salvage some materials, machines, etc. but the insurance company=20
> also had people that came in to dispose of everything
>
Right now, in a straight line of about 35 feet is the neighbor's house. It=
didn't burn to the ground, but from flame/water/smoke damage, it was decid=
ed a total loss. Half the structure burned down and other half is standing=
but completely unsafe. So the Fire Marshall taped it off and warned that n=
o one could enter. As a courtesy, the fire department came out (a great ge=
sture by some great guys) and grabbed some things for them. Two days later=
the looters were there. They took the Fisher Price tools that were smoke =
damaged but no melted, damaged furniture and some stuff from his backyard. =
The insurance guys sent out another "team" to plywood over the broken wind=
ows and patio door for a second time. A week later the house was broken in=
to again, the neighbor called the police, but the thieves got away. This t=
ime they took canned goods (in rusted cans), towels, and some more toys, as=
well as his wife's underwear (water logged and all).
=20
> While to a contractor or woodworker the slightly damaged tools are=20
> potential great bargains or gifts from the tornado gods, to the insurers=
=20
> it it all about money and settling claims.
Amen. And in a commercial situation where everyone figures businesses are m=
ade of money (and of course resulting in any litigation possible) the insur=
ance companies want all liabilities closed as soon as possible. I understa=
nd both sides of the equation and especially wanting to lessen any liabilit=
ies.
But still, it galls me to see waste that sometimes occurs. I don't care abo=
ut some scavenger that hovers around like a buzzard to see if he can benefi=
t from someone's tragedy. But it gives me an intense amount of heartburn t=
o see tools or merchandise that can be brought back to life by some time, a=
ttention and effort. I have run across a lot of folks over the years that =
have rebuilt bandsaws, table saws, etc., and even gone to the point of pain=
ting them their original colors when finished with their restoration. Hard=
to explain to those guys that the small table saw that just has the paint =
scorched and a rusted top that it has to go to the dumpster.
=20
> Having lived through two total looses (1976, 2007) I can say I never=20
> want to have to do it again.
That is absolutely awful. I can't imagine that... I was flooded out a few=
years ago but didn't lose //everything//. And one event so close to the o=
ther...
OUCH.
Robert
On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 8:10:09 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
> Well, the Woodcraft store has been condemned. The owner can't
> even get in to inventory what might be salvageable. He thinks
> he might be able to reopen farther north in the same shopping
> center. He says he definitely needs to be open by November.
>
> Bill
Another option, if you have some spare time, is to volunteer to assist (paid or unpaid?) him with cleanup and the move, hence collect any unwanted items in the process.
Sonny
On 8/8/2017 2:28 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 1:00:48 PM UTC-5, -MIKE- wrote:
>>
>> I'm guessing the insurance company will keep tight reigns on all
>> merchandise so they can sell it and recoup expenses.
>
> IF it is in good condition, they will pack it up and sell it through another outlet. No one wants to be responsible for possibly damaged equipment, no one wants possible safety issues (real or imagined)generated by using possibly unsafe equipment, and no one wants to try to warrant a new purchase of a damaged tool. A few saws, some hand tools, chisels and edged tools that have lost their temper are nothing to the big tools suppliers, especially when someone sues because they say they were damaged by an unsafe tool.
>
Your experience is similar to what I encountered with two serious fires.
Both were considered total losses. We had people there 24 hours to
keep vultures away. Admittance even to employees was limited for safety
reasons. Once everything was inspected, cleared by the Fire Marshall we
could salvage some materials, machines, etc. but the insurance company
also had people that came in to dispose of everything
While to a contractor or woodworker the slightly damaged tools are
potential great bargains or gifts from the tornado gods, to the insurers
it it all about money and settling claims.
Having lived through two total looses (1976, 2007) I can say I never
want to have to do it again.
On Mon, 7 Aug 2017 08:11:10 -0500, Bill Gill <[email protected]>
wrote:
>The local Woodcraft store here in Tulsa is down for a while.
>We had an unexpected EF2 tornado early yesterday morning and the
>Woodcraft store was in the path. I didn't see any pictures
>of the store itself, but it is right next to the AT&T store
>that was totally trashed. I don't expect it came out in
>great shape. Fortunately there were no deaths, and no
>life threatening injuries. In the middle of the night of
>course there just weren't that many people out.
That *is* a disaster!
On 8/8/2017 7:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>> Having lived through two total looses (1976, 2007) I can say I never
>> want to have to do it again.
>
> That is absolutely awful. I can't imagine that... I was flooded out a few years ago but didn't lose //everything//. And one event so close to the other...
> OUCH.
>
> Robert
>
Both were places where I worked. The first was arson in the warehouse
during third shift. Young teenagers got a slap on the wrist by the
courts.
Second was in another section of the building (we leased 50k ft in 2
sections) where someone did welding and then went home. Hours later is
was a 7 alarm fire. Eight businesses affected and all their employees.
There was a sprinkler valve turned off. Still in the courts deciding
liability AFAIK. Fortunately, we owned another building and could move
there to start over. Six months to get back in production.
On 8/7/2017 8:40 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 8:11:16 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
>> The local Woodcraft store here in Tulsa is down for a while.
>> We had an unexpected EF2 tornado early yesterday morning and the
>> Woodcraft store was in the path. I didn't see any pictures
>> of the store itself, but it is right next to the AT&T store
>> that was totally trashed. I don't expect it came out in
>> great shape. Fortunately there were no deaths, and no
>> life threatening injuries. In the middle of the night of
>> course there just weren't that many people out.
>>
>> Bill
>
> Saw that on the news.
>
> Kinna sounds inconsiderate, but, when appropriate(?), you might go inquire about a pending(?) "fire sale".
>
> Sonny
>
I was thinking that when they reopen they have have a good
sale.
Bill
On 8/7/2017 1:01 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/7/2017 12:50 PM, Bill Gill wrote:
>> On 8/7/2017 8:40 AM, Sonny wrote:
>>> On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 8:11:16 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
>>>> The local Woodcraft store here in Tulsa is down for a while.
>>>> We had an unexpected EF2 tornado early yesterday morning and the
>>>> Woodcraft store was in the path. I didn't see any pictures
>>>> of the store itself, but it is right next to the AT&T store
>>>> that was totally trashed. I don't expect it came out in
>>>> great shape. Fortunately there were no deaths, and no
>>>> life threatening injuries. In the middle of the night of
>>>> course there just weren't that many people out.
>>>>
>>>> Bill
>>>
>>> Saw that on the news.
>>>
>>> Kinna sounds inconsiderate, but, when appropriate(?), you might go
>>> inquire about a pending(?) "fire sale".
>>>
>>> Sonny
>>>
>> I was thinking that when they reopen they have have a good
>> sale.
>>
>> Bill
>
> The best deal is to find out who is buying the contents now after the
> insurance company is done. They often sell off the entire contents for
> pennies on the dollar to people that deal in that stuff. Then it shows
> up in flea markets and the like.
Sometimes it just gets thrown in a dumpster. Several years ago
a woman found several hundred coats in a dumpster after a fire
at a store. She took them home, washed them, and gave them to
charity.
Bill
On 8/7/2017 8:40 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Monday, August 7, 2017 at 8:11:16 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
>> The local Woodcraft store here in Tulsa is down for a while.
>> We had an unexpected EF2 tornado early yesterday morning and the
>> Woodcraft store was in the path. I didn't see any pictures
>> of the store itself, but it is right next to the AT&T store
>> that was totally trashed. I don't expect it came out in
>> great shape. Fortunately there were no deaths, and no
>> life threatening injuries. In the middle of the night of
>> course there just weren't that many people out.
>>
>> Bill
>
> Saw that on the news.
>
> Kinna sounds inconsiderate, but, when appropriate(?), you might go inquire about a pending(?) "fire sale".
>
> Sonny
>
Well, the Woodcraft store has been condemned. The owner can't
even get in to inventory what might be salvageable. He thinks
he might be able to reopen farther north in the same shopping
center. He says he definitely needs to be open by November.
Bill
On 8/8/2017 8:20 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 8:10:09 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
>
>> Well, the Woodcraft store has been condemned. The owner can't
>> even get in to inventory what might be salvageable. He thinks
>> he might be able to reopen farther north in the same shopping
>> center. He says he definitely needs to be open by November.
>>
>> Bill
>
> Another option, if you have some spare time, is to volunteer to assist (paid or unpaid?) him with cleanup and the move, hence collect any unwanted items in the process.
>
> Sonny
>
Sounds good, but there might be some safety issues,
particularly with the insurance company.
Bill
On 8/8/17 8:20 AM, Sonny wrote:
> On Tuesday, August 8, 2017 at 8:10:09 AM UTC-5, Bill Gill wrote:
>
>> Well, the Woodcraft store has been condemned. The owner can't
>> even get in to inventory what might be salvageable. He thinks
>> he might be able to reopen farther north in the same shopping
>> center. He says he definitely needs to be open by November.
>>
>> Bill
>
> Another option, if you have some spare time, is to volunteer to assist (paid or unpaid?) him with cleanup and the move, hence collect any unwanted items in the process.
>
> Sonny
>
I'm guessing the insurance company will keep tight reigns on all
merchandise so they can sell it and recoup expenses.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
www.mikedrums.com
On 8/8/2017 8:09 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 8/8/2017 7:41 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>> Having lived through two total looses (1976, 2007) I can say I never
>>> want to have to do it again.
>>
>> That is absolutely awful. I can't imagine that... I was flooded out
>> a few years ago but didn't lose //everything//. And one event so
>> close to the other...
>> OUCH.
>>
>> Robert
>>
>
>
> Both were places where I worked. The first was arson in the warehouse
> during third shift. Young teenagers got a slap on the wrist by the courts.
>
> Second was in another section of the building (we leased 50k ft in 2
> sections) where someone did welding and then went home. Hours later is
> was a 7 alarm fire. Eight businesses affected and all their employees.
> There was a sprinkler valve turned off. Still in the courts deciding
> liability AFAIK. Fortunately, we owned another building and could move
> there to start over. Six months to get back in production.
Bit of irony here in Tulsa. One of the businesses that got
hit hard was a disaster restoration company. Now they need to
have their disaster restored.
Bill