I am designing a bedroom dresser. It is generally Arts and Crafts
\Stickley looking. The sides will be post legs, say 2 1/2" square with
frame and panel. Also frame and panel back. I have questions about
attaching the dust frames (is that what they are called?) to the sides
and back.
On solid side cases you typically see a dado or sliding dovetail. When
I look at a stickley piece where the dust frame hits the leg I just
see a butt joint. What technique is typical?
- Would I have a stopped dado and a notch in the frame?
- Would I do the same at front and back?
- Or would I use a M&T into the legs
- I suppose attachment to the side frame as well. Would it de a
shallow dado or a ledger under?
- What about across the back
Similar in configuration to this (inexpensive) eBay piece http://tinyurl.com/y9ysgyy
I plan on using a hardwood side rail with a dado in the drawer side
and also a guide under the drawer.
Good point on the tangle issue.
On Feb 13, 7:48=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:19c9238e-9431-4221-a4fa-ea04c3810540@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
> Snip
>
> Do you think the dust panels do much? Not really sure of the purpose.
> Maybe houses were dusty in the past?
>
> 1. =A0When building the drawers or panels out of a softer wood the consta=
nt
> sliding in and out over the years will actually create a dust from the
> softer wood wearing down. =A0The residue looks like you have been in ther=
e
> sanding. =A0The dust frame will prevent that dust from falling down into =
the
> lower drawer. =A030 years ago I built a dresser with out the "dust frames=
/web
> frames" and the pine sided drawers have worn down and produced this dust
> which is often found on top of the contents of the lower drawers.
>
> 2. =A0It helps keep the contents of the over filled drawer from being tan=
gled
> up with the upper drawer.
On Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:07:07 -0800 (PST), "SonomaProducts.com"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I am designing a bedroom dresser. It is generally Arts and Crafts
>\Stickley looking. The sides will be post legs, say 2 1/2" square with
>frame and panel. Also frame and panel back. I have questions about
>attaching the dust frames (is that what they are called?) to the sides
>and back.
>
>On solid side cases you typically see a dado or sliding dovetail. When
>I look at a stickley piece where the dust frame hits the leg I just
>see a butt joint. What technique is typical?
>
>- Would I have a stopped dado and a notch in the frame?
>- Would I do the same at front and back?
>- Or would I use a M&T into the legs
>- I suppose attachment to the side frame as well. Would it de a
>shallow dado or a ledger under?
>- What about across the back
>
>Similar in configuration to this (inexpensive) eBay piece http://tinyurl.com/y9ysgyy
It would be nice to see the inside the case with drawers removed. I
would expect the frame between the drawers to include grooves that
hold the dust panel. I suspect the frames include tenons that fit
into mortises cut in the leg posts. Support the back frame there onto
the back muntin, if it is there.
Perfecto and thanks. I have seen drawings that show M&T and doubles
even but it seemd like there wasn't much authority in regards to how
they determined that was the best method.
Yes, I was figuring poplar frame on three sides with Cherry (as this
unit will be) for the front. I had seen some idea of laminating a show
piece to the front of the drawer frame but seems less hassle to just
do the 4th side with matching material.
I think the box will get it's structure from the bottom rail which is
about 3" tall and M&T to the legs and the top rail laying flat like
the drawer frames but dovetailed into the top of the leg, like they do
with some stickley tambors and tables. So the drawer frames are just
there for the drawers.
Do you think the dust panels do much? Not really sure of the purpose.
Maybe houses were dusty in the past?
On Feb 12, 2:38=A0pm, Swingman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 2/12/2010 12:07 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am designing a bedroom dresser. It is generally Arts and Crafts
> > \Stickley looking. The sides will be post legs, say 2 1/2" square with
> > frame and panel. Also frame and panel back. I have questions about
> > attaching the dust frames (is that what they are called?) to the sides
> > and back.
>
> > On solid side cases you typically see a dado or sliding dovetail. When
> > I look at a stickley piece where the dust frame hits the leg I just
> > see a butt joint. What technique is typical?
>
> > - Would I have a stopped dado and a notch in the frame?
> > - Would I do the same at front and back?
> > - Or would I use a M&T into the legs
> > - I suppose attachment to the side frame as well. Would it de a
> > shallow dado or a ledger under?
> > - What about across the back
>
> > Similar in configuration to this (inexpensive) eBay piecehttp://tinyurl=
.com/y9ysgyy
>
> FWIW, I've studied antiques from this style from this period at every
> opportunity down through the years. Here are my observations on the
> mounting of "drawer frames" in frame and panel carcase construction.
>
> Traditionally this component is called a "drawer frame", and, in chest
> of drawers in particular, they are often made with horizontal "dust
> panels" floating in grooves in the "drawer frame" sides.
>
> (In desks, and those pieces with only one drawer, or one row of drawers,
> these floating "dust panels" are often left off).
>
> The "drawer frames" themeslves are most often mounted into a shallow
> dado cut into the insides of the four legs.
>
> In the back legs, the dado is almost always a "stopped" dado.
>
> In the front legs, this dado (or sliding dovetail in some instances) can
> be a "through" dado, with the front piece of the "drawer frame" made
> from the primary material, exposed, and showing the joinery.
>
> Alternately, a stopped dado is used.
>
> In this case, the drawer frame is made of secondary wood, but the
> secondary material stopping around 3/4" from the front of the legs. Then
> a 3/4" piece of primary material is glued to the front edge the drawer
> panel, and cut so as to be butted against insides of the legs and just
> in front of the stopped dadoes.
>
> This gives you what appears to be a butt joint, as you mentioned above.
>
> The drawer frame itself is rarely attached to the back, and most often
> stops just short of the back itself, regardless if the type of carcase
> construction.
>
> FWIW ...
>
> --www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 10/22/08
> KarlC@ (the obvious)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:0f4df53e-baf4-416a-8bfe-e83f9d18763a@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
I plan on using a hardwood side rail with a dado in the drawer side
and also a guide under the drawer.
The best combination is to make all pieces that make sliding contact out of
the same wood. Since I have been practicing that method I have not
witnessed any build up of dust. Additionally it is best to make all sliding
mating surfaces out of hard wood, regardless of the type wood on the other
surfaces. Thin hardwood strips glued in place work out well when working
with softer woods.
Many years ago I used the center guide rails and have all but stopped using
them. I have found that the center guide rail is handy if the drawer is
considerably smaller than the opening. Since I try to build the drawers
<3/32" narrower than the opening I have very good luck with only the sides
rails keeping every thing in place.
On Feb 13, 7:48 am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:19c9238e-9431-4221-a4fa-ea04c3810540@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
> Snip
>
> Do you think the dust panels do much? Not really sure of the purpose.
> Maybe houses were dusty in the past?
>
> 1. When building the drawers or panels out of a softer wood the constant
> sliding in and out over the years will actually create a dust from the
> softer wood wearing down. The residue looks like you have been in there
> sanding. The dust frame will prevent that dust from falling down into the
> lower drawer. 30 years ago I built a dresser with out the "dust frames/web
> frames" and the pine sided drawers have worn down and produced this dust
> which is often found on top of the contents of the lower drawers.
>
> 2. It helps keep the contents of the over filled drawer from being tangled
> up with the upper drawer.
"SonomaProducts.com" wrote:
> Do you think the dust panels do much? Not really sure of the
> purpose.
Maybe houses were dusty in the past?
------------------------
SFWIW:
Modified one of Norm's designs on NYW to build a maple chest to
include dust panels.
Used 1/4" floating Birch ply panels and 3/4x2-1/4 rails.
Overall impressions:
Gives that "built like a tank" feeling to the piece.
Some dust still gets in.
I liked the results.
Would use the technique again.
Lew
I will add this comment to the discussion.
Another reason for dust panels in dressers is that the wife will not even
consider a dresser without them. She is old school. Quality dressers always
had them. Quality dressers still have them. And anything that doesn't have
dust panels, by definition, are junk.
And if you disagree with her on matters of "quality", you are in big
trouble.
On 2/12/2010 5:10 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> Do you think the dust panels do much? Not really sure of the purpose.
> Maybe houses were dusty in the past?
I may be mistaken, but I was always under the impression that they were
used more for security than for dust purposes. On a drawer that is
locked, if the there is a "dust panel" on the "drawer frame" above it,
you can't remove the top drawer and access the locked drawer.
Also forgot to mention, besides "drawer frame", another common term for
the same component,a d serving the same purpose, is "web frame", both of
which can have "dust panels".
The terminology may well be regional.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Cool
On Feb 12, 10:37=A0am, "StephenM" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Twin tennon into the legs.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yeprh7u
>
> (Second to last diagram on the page)
>
> For the back, a Dado will work just fine.
>
> Regards,
>
> Steve
>
> "SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:5f424f69-4367-4e28-8247-e24f223c86da@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> >I am designing a bedroom dresser. It is generally Arts and Crafts
> > \Stickley looking. The sides will be post legs, say 2 1/2" square with
> > frame and panel. Also frame and panel back. I have questions about
> > attaching the dust frames (is that what they are called?) to the sides
> > and back.
>
> > On solid side cases you typically see a dado or sliding dovetail. When
> > I look at a stickley piece where the dust frame hits the leg I just
> > see a butt joint. What technique is typical?
>
> > - Would I have a stopped dado and a notch in the frame?
> > - Would I do the same at front and back?
> > - Or would I use a M&T into the legs
> > - I suppose attachment to the side frame as well. Would it de a
> > shallow dado or a ledger under?
> > - What about across the back
>
> > Similar in configuration to this (inexpensive) eBay piece
> >http://tinyurl.com/y9ysgyy- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
On Feb 13, 3:48=A0pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The best combination is to make all pieces that make sliding contact out =
of
> the same wood. =A0Since I have been practicing that method I have not
> witnessed any build up of dust.
Give it a few more decades. The best low-friction solution is to
mismatch
the woods, like a hardwood against a softwood (otherwise the similar
sap can cause adhesions). For heavy drawers, that matters.
Resinous woods (teak, lignum vitae, mahogany, ipe) are somewhat
self-lubricating, but paste wax is easy to reapply through the years.
Twin tennon into the legs.
http://tinyurl.com/yeprh7u
(Second to last diagram on the page)
For the back, a Dado will work just fine.
Regards,
Steve
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:5f424f69-4367-4e28-8247-e24f223c86da@p13g2000pre.googlegroups.com...
>I am designing a bedroom dresser. It is generally Arts and Crafts
> \Stickley looking. The sides will be post legs, say 2 1/2" square with
> frame and panel. Also frame and panel back. I have questions about
> attaching the dust frames (is that what they are called?) to the sides
> and back.
>
> On solid side cases you typically see a dado or sliding dovetail. When
> I look at a stickley piece where the dust frame hits the leg I just
> see a butt joint. What technique is typical?
>
> - Would I have a stopped dado and a notch in the frame?
> - Would I do the same at front and back?
> - Or would I use a M&T into the legs
> - I suppose attachment to the side frame as well. Would it de a
> shallow dado or a ledger under?
> - What about across the back
>
> Similar in configuration to this (inexpensive) eBay piece
> http://tinyurl.com/y9ysgyy
On 2/12/2010 7:53 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
> I will add this comment to the discussion.
>
> Another reason for dust panels in dressers is that the wife will not even
> consider a dresser without them. She is old school. Quality dressers always
> had them. Quality dressers still have them. And anything that doesn't have
> dust panels, by definition, are junk.
>
> And if you disagree with her on matters of "quality", you are in big
> trouble.
Women are like they, they don't want to even consider the possibility of
the 'cache' of the dirty underwear drawer mixing with their dainty stuff
... no matter the odds.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
On 2/12/2010 5:41 PM, Han wrote:
> Swingman<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> I may be mistaken, but I was always under the impression that they were
>> used more for security than for dust purposes. On a drawer that is
>> locked, if the there is a "dust panel" on the "drawer frame" above it,
>> you can't remove the top drawer and access the locked drawer.
>
> Maybe another reason for te dust panel is to prevent you from stuffing so
> many pairs of socks in a drawer that it cannot be opened any more.
> DAMHIKT.
LOL ... know what you mean! ;)
Or, for Leon's infamous "dirty underwear drawer" that he built into his
bed frame, to keep the 'flavors' from co-mingling! :O)
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
Swingman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I may be mistaken, but I was always under the impression that they were
> used more for security than for dust purposes. On a drawer that is
> locked, if the there is a "dust panel" on the "drawer frame" above it,
> you can't remove the top drawer and access the locked drawer.
Maybe another reason for te dust panel is to prevent you from stuffing so
many pairs of socks in a drawer that it cannot be opened any more.
DAMHIKT.
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On 2/12/2010 12:07 PM, SonomaProducts.com wrote:
> I am designing a bedroom dresser. It is generally Arts and Crafts
> \Stickley looking. The sides will be post legs, say 2 1/2" square with
> frame and panel. Also frame and panel back. I have questions about
> attaching the dust frames (is that what they are called?) to the sides
> and back.
>
> On solid side cases you typically see a dado or sliding dovetail. When
> I look at a stickley piece where the dust frame hits the leg I just
> see a butt joint. What technique is typical?
>
> - Would I have a stopped dado and a notch in the frame?
> - Would I do the same at front and back?
> - Or would I use a M&T into the legs
> - I suppose attachment to the side frame as well. Would it de a
> shallow dado or a ledger under?
> - What about across the back
>
> Similar in configuration to this (inexpensive) eBay piece http://tinyurl.com/y9ysgyy
FWIW, I've studied antiques from this style from this period at every
opportunity down through the years. Here are my observations on the
mounting of "drawer frames" in frame and panel carcase construction.
Traditionally this component is called a "drawer frame", and, in chest
of drawers in particular, they are often made with horizontal "dust
panels" floating in grooves in the "drawer frame" sides.
(In desks, and those pieces with only one drawer, or one row of drawers,
these floating "dust panels" are often left off).
The "drawer frames" themeslves are most often mounted into a shallow
dado cut into the insides of the four legs.
In the back legs, the dado is almost always a "stopped" dado.
In the front legs, this dado (or sliding dovetail in some instances) can
be a "through" dado, with the front piece of the "drawer frame" made
from the primary material, exposed, and showing the joinery.
Alternately, a stopped dado is used.
In this case, the drawer frame is made of secondary wood, but the
secondary material stopping around 3/4" from the front of the legs. Then
a 3/4" piece of primary material is glued to the front edge the drawer
panel, and cut so as to be butted against insides of the legs and just
in front of the stopped dadoes.
This gives you what appears to be a butt joint, as you mentioned above.
The drawer frame itself is rarely attached to the back, and most often
stops just short of the back itself, regardless if the type of carcase
construction.
FWIW ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
"whit3rd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Feb 13, 3:48 pm, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> The best combination is to make all pieces that make sliding contact out
> of
> the same wood. Since I have been practicing that method I have not
> witnessed any build up of dust.
Give it a few more decades. The best low-friction solution is to
mismatch
the woods, like a hardwood against a softwood (otherwise the similar
sap can cause adhesions). For heavy drawers, that matters.
Resinous woods (teak, lignum vitae, mahogany, ipe) are somewhat
self-lubricating, but paste wax is easy to reapply through the years.
Yeah I don't think so. The chest of drawers with the mismatch of soft and
hard wood is 30 years old and the dust continues to form as the drawer sides
continue to wear down and the drag is as objuecional as it was in 1980.
OTOH chests with drawers built 24 years ago with same hard woods for all
parts show no wear at all and are silky smooth to open and close.
"SonomaProducts.com" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:19c9238e-9431-4221-a4fa-ea04c3810540@m27g2000prl.googlegroups.com...
Snip
Do you think the dust panels do much? Not really sure of the purpose.
Maybe houses were dusty in the past?
1. When building the drawers or panels out of a softer wood the constant
sliding in and out over the years will actually create a dust from the
softer wood wearing down. The residue looks like you have been in there
sanding. The dust frame will prevent that dust from falling down into the
lower drawer. 30 years ago I built a dresser with out the "dust frames/web
frames" and the pine sided drawers have worn down and produced this dust
which is often found on top of the contents of the lower drawers.
2. It helps keep the contents of the over filled drawer from being tangled
up with the upper drawer.
"Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/12/2010 7:53 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>> I will add this comment to the discussion.
>>
>> Another reason for dust panels in dressers is that the wife will not even
>> consider a dresser without them. She is old school. Quality dressers
>> always
>> had them. Quality dressers still have them. And anything that doesn't
>> have
>> dust panels, by definition, are junk.
>>
>> And if you disagree with her on matters of "quality", you are in big
>> trouble.
>
> Women are like they, they don't want to even consider the possibility of
> the 'cache' of the dirty underwear drawer mixing with their dainty stuff
> ... no matter the odds.
I recall once an old pair of my underwear that were streached out, had a
broken wast band, and having several more holes than what they came with
being found in that dainty stuff drawer. I did'n put'em there, honest.