Petition to secede? Interesting idea...

On 11/12/2012 5:11 PM, Bill wrote:
> Bill wrote:
>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2012 2:31 PM, Richard wrote:
>>>> Texas, and 18 other states? This ought to be interesting...
>>>>
>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> Did they say anything about paying their portion of the national debt
>> before they go?
>>
>
> The petition seems to suggest the first reason for it is to protect its
> citizens' standard of living. Whatever happened to "We're'all in this
> together?--one nation, indivisible..."


LOOOOOOOONG gone....

Didn't you notice?

On 11/12/2012 6:49 PM, Bob F wrote:
> "Larry Jaques"<[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:56:46 -0800 (PST), Noons<[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Nov 13, 6:31 am, Richard<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looking forward to that update.
>>>
>>> Don't let the door slap them on the back on the way out...
>>
>> There are petitions circulating in -15- states now.
>> The plot thickens...
>
> Let me guess - All red states that currently get more money back from the Feds
> than they pay in taxes? Actually, IIRC Texas might be the one exception to that
> rule.
>
> We won't miss 'em.
>
>

I'd guess red states that actually have balanced budgets.

On 14 Nov 2012 12:57:54 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>They would have to raise that 70% for themselves, plus they would have to
>find a way to pay their own military, diplomats, etc.

Well, considering the amount of armament that regular Texans
supposedly have in their homes, their military wouldn't need to budget
much to get them armed. :)

In article <[email protected]>, Han
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
> > On 14 Nov 2012 12:57:54 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>They would have to raise that 70% for themselves, plus they would have
> >>to find a way to pay their own military, diplomats, etc.
> >
> > Well, considering the amount of armament that regular Texans
> > supposedly have in their homes, their military wouldn't need to budget
> > much to get them armed. :)
>
> How many "regular Texans" to defend the refineries etc around Houston from
> air attack? I am just saying, we aren't only concerned with Joe common
> criminal here.

"It's a trap! There are TWO of them!"

--
I used to like fishing because I thought it had some larger significance. Now I
like fishing because it¹s the one thing I can think of that probably doesn¹t. ­
John Gierach

On 11/12/2012 5:34 PM, RonB wrote:
> Hmmmm - That might work out for the rest of us. The government can take the social security funds intended for that "new country" and add them to the dwindling fund for the rest of us. Ditto Medicare funds, etc.
>
> Not sure what the new country does with their retired. :)

They'd just have to go back CA or the NEast, where they came from. ;0>

--
www.eWoodShop.com
Last update: 4/15/2010
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
http://gplus.to/eWoodShop

On Tue, 13 Nov 2012 10:09:32 -0500, Keith Nuttle
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On 11/12/2012 10:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:11:58 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Bill wrote:
>>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>>> On 11/12/2012 2:31 PM, Richard wrote:
>>>>>> Texas, and 18 other states? This ought to be interesting...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Did they say anything about paying their portion of the national debt
>>>> before they go?
>>>>
>>>
>>> The petition seems to suggest the first reason for it is to protect its
>>> citizens' standard of living. Whatever happened to "We're'all in this
>>> together?--one nation, indivisible..."

[FWIW, I didn't say that, so your quote string was off a bit.]


>When obama, the supposed president of the UNITED States, works to divide
>the country into the rich and the poor. the black and the white, the
>young and the old, the workers and the businesses, it becomes impossible
>for this to be one nation indivisible under GOD.
>
>I think the social democrats ideas of diversity has done more damage to
>this country than nearly any other idea. What would Martin Luther King
>think of a president that was working to divide this country not bring
>it together to work as one? From his speeches I thing there are a lot
>of things that the social democrats are doing in his name that he would
>find disgusting.

He'd also be asking "Why did you give that to them? They didn't earn
it. To have true value, something must be earned. Otherwise, it
crushes the self-esteem even more. Handouts are demeaning."

--
While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy
is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our
creativity, or our glorious uniqueness.
-- Gilda Radner

On Tuesday, November 13, 2012 7:14:04 AM UTC-5, HeyBub wrote:
> Bob F wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Let me guess - All red states that currently get more money back from
>
> > the Feds than they pay in taxes? Actually, IIRC Texas might be the
>
> > one exception to that rule.
>
> >
>
> > We won't miss 'em.
>
>
>
> Every state contributes something important to the Union and would be
>
> missed.
>
>
>
> The biggest advantage to Texas in the proposed secession would be the
>
> ability to control its borders. By that I mean keeping the liberals out.

Not to worry. I won't even fly over Texas.

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:56:46 -0800 (PST), Noons <[email protected]>
wrote:

>On Nov 13, 6:31 am, Richard <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Looking forward to that update.
>
>Don't let the door slap them on the back on the way out...

There are petitions circulating in -15- states now.
The plot thickens...

--
While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy
is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our
creativity, or our glorious uniqueness.
-- Gilda Radner

"Richard" wrote:

> Texas, and 18 other states? This ought to be interesting...
>
> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B>
>
>
> The Lone Star offering (the handiwork of an Arlington resident named
> “Micah H”) reads as follows:
>
> We petition the Obama Administration to peacefully grant the State
> of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create
> its
> own NEW government.
>
> The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the
> federal government’s neglect to reform domestic and foreign
> spending.
> The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights
> such as
> the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a
> balanced
> budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is
> practically feasible
> for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it’s
> citizens’
> standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in
> accordance with
> the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no
> longer
> being reflected by the federal government.
>
> The petition’s been up since Friday, and when I first clicked on it
> at 8:30
> this morning there were 16,848 signatures; eight minutes later that
> number
> had jumped by 100. (Update at 9:17 a.m.: Now, more than 17,300 have
> signed the petition.) Never mind that Texas can’t secede from the
> Union:
> As Gawker points out, should the petition reach the 25,000-signature
> threshold, well, “White House staff will review it, ensure it’s sent
> to the
> appropriate policy experts, and issue an official response.”
>
> Looking forward to that update.
----------------------------------------------
As I remember, the last time this was tried, we fought a civil war.

Some people never learn.

And no, the South will definitely NOT rise again.

Lew

On 11/12/2012 6:10 PM, Richard wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 6:46 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> RonB wrote:
>>> Hmmmm - That might work out for the rest of us. The government can
>>> take the social security funds intended for that "new country" and
>>> add them to the dwindling fund for the rest of us. Ditto Medicare
>>> funds, etc.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Are you kidding me? We'll have to give them Foreign Aid if they get away
>> with this. Then we'll have all of those Texans sneaking into Arizona,
>> New
>> Mexico and California...
>>
>
>
>
> Read it and weep...
>
> All told, petitions have been filed on behalf of 20 states:
> Alabama,
> Arkansas,
> Colorado,
> Florida,
> Georgia,
> Indiana,
> Kentucky,
> Louisiana,
> Michigan,
> Mississippi,
> Missouri,
> Montana,
> New Jersey,
> New York,
> North Carolina,
> North Dakota,
> Oregon,
> South Carolina,
> Tennessee,
> and Texas. - first to complete :)
Up to 24 the last I saw, including Nevada and Arizona. Also Pennsylvania
and Oklahoma.

A good number of blue states on that list also...

"Gramp's shop" wrote:

>
Here's the definitive breakdown of who gets what (author unknown):

Dear Red States:

We're ticked off at the way you've treated California and we've
decided we're leaving.

We intend to form our own country and we're taking the other Blue
States with us.

In case you aren't aware that includes Hawaii, Oregon, Washington,
Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast.

We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially
to the people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly:

You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.

We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

We get Elliot Spitzer. You get Ken Lay.

We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.

We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.

We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.

We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs.
You get Alabama.

We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states
pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the
Christian Coalition's we get a bunch of happy families. You get a
bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro choice and anti war
and we're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If
you need people to fight ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're
apparently willing to send to their deaths for no purpose and they
don't care if you don't show pictures of their children's caskets
coming home.

We wish you success in Iraq and hope that the WMDs turn up but we're
not willing to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the
country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92%
of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you can
serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90 percent of
the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal, all living
redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven

Sister schools plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all obese
Americans and their projected health care costs, 92% of all US
mosquitoes, nearly 100% of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99%
of all Southern Baptists, virtually 100% of all televangelists, Rush

Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by
a whale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the death
penalty or gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that
Saddam was involved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you
are people with higher morals then we lefties.

We're taking the good pot too. You can have that dirt weed they grow
in Mexico.

Sincerely,
Author Unknown in New California.
-------------------------------------------------
And the weather sucks.

Lew

On 11/15/2012 7:45 AM, Richard wrote:
> On 11/15/2012 7:20 AM, Han wrote:
>> Dave<[email protected]> wrote in

>> How many "regular Texans" to defend the refineries etc around Houston
>> from
>> air attack? I am just saying, we aren't only concerned with Joe common
>> criminal here.
>>
>
> A few F-16s for General Dynamics, Fort Worth.


One Texas Ranger?<g>

Here's the definitive breakdown of who gets what (author unknown):

Dear Red States:

We're ticked off at the way you've treated California and we've decided we'=
re leaving.

We intend to form our own country and we're taking the other Blue States wi=
th us.

In case you aren't aware that includes Hawaii, Oregon, Washington, Minnesot=
a, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast.

We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially to th=
e people of the new country of New California.

To sum up briefly:

You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.

We get stem cell research and the best beaches.

We get Elliot Spitzer. You get Ken Lay.

We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.

We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.

We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.

We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs.
You get Alabama.

We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states
pay their fair share.

Since our aggregate divorce rate is 22 percent lower than the Christian Coa=
lition's we get a bunch of happy families. You get a bunch of single moms.

Please be aware that Nuevo California will be pro choice and anti war and w=
e're going to want all our citizens back from Iraq at once. If you need peo=
ple to fight ask your evangelicals. They have kids they're apparently willi=
ng to send to their deaths for no purpose and they don't care if you don't =
show pictures of their children's caskets coming home.

We wish you success in Iraq and hope that the WMDs turn up but we're not wi=
lling to spend our resources in Bush's Quagmire.

With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the countr=
y's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce, 92% of the nat=
ion's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you can serve French win=
es at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industr=
y, most of the US low sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condor=
s, all the Ivy and Seven

Sister schools plus Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Cal Tech and MIT.

With the Red States you will have to cope with 88% of all obese Americans a=
nd their projected health care costs, 92% of all US mosquitoes, nearly 100%=
of the tornadoes, 90% of the hurricanes, 99% of all Southern Baptists, vir=
tually 100% of all televangelists, Rush

Limbaugh, Bob Jones University, Clemson and the University of Georgia.

We get Hollywood and Yosemite, thank you.

38% of those in the Red states believe Jonah was actually swallowed by a wh=
ale, 62% believe life is sacred unless we're discussing the death penalty o=
r gun laws, 44% say that evolution is only a theory, 53% that Saddam was in=
volved in 9/11 and 61% of you crazy bastards believe you are people with hi=
gher morals then we lefties.

We're taking the good pot too. You can have that dirt weed they grow in Mex=
ico.

Sincerely,
Author Unknown in New California.



On Monday, November 12, 2012 4:34:33 PM UTC-6, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:56:46 -0800 (PST), Noons <[email protected]>
>=20
> wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> >On Nov 13, 6:31=EF=BF=BDam, Richard <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> Looking forward to that update.
>=20
> >
>=20
> >Don't let the door slap them on the back on the way out...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> There are petitions circulating in -15- states now. =20
>=20
> The plot thickens...
>=20
>=20

On Nov 13, 6:31=A0am, Richard <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Looking forward to that update.

Don't let the door slap them on the back on the way out...

"HeyBub" <[email protected]> writes:
>Gramp's shop wrote:
>>
>> With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the
>> country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce,
>> 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you
>> can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90
>> percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal,
>> all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven
>
>That's cool.
>
>On the other hand, Texas controls 70% of the nation's refining capacity.

25%, actually. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_capprod_a_%28na%29_8pa_BSD_a.htm

On 11/15/2012 7:20 AM, Han wrote:
> Dave<[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 14 Nov 2012 12:57:54 GMT, Han<[email protected]> wrote:
>>> They would have to raise that 70% for themselves, plus they would have
>>> to find a way to pay their own military, diplomats, etc.
>>
>> Well, considering the amount of armament that regular Texans
>> supposedly have in their homes, their military wouldn't need to budget
>> much to get them armed. :)
>
> How many "regular Texans" to defend the refineries etc around Houston from
> air attack? I am just saying, we aren't only concerned with Joe common
> criminal here.
>

A few F-16s for General Dynamics, Fort Worth.

On 11/13/2012 6:32 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Gramp's shop" wrote:
>
>>
> Here's the definitive breakdown of who gets what (author unknown):
>
> Dear Red States:
>
> We're ticked off at the way you've treated California and we've
> decided we're leaving.
>
> We intend to form our own country and we're taking the other Blue
> States with us.
>
> In case you aren't aware that includes Hawaii, Oregon, Washington,
> Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illinois and all the Northeast.
>
> We believe this split will be beneficial to the nation and especially
> to the people of the new country of New California.
>
> To sum up briefly:
>
> You get Texas, Oklahoma and all the slave states.
>
> We get stem cell research and the best beaches.
>
> We get Elliot Spitzer. You get Ken Lay.
>
> We get the Statue of Liberty. You get OpryLand.
>
> We get Intel and Microsoft. You get WorldCom.
>
> We get Harvard. You get Ole' Miss.
>
> We get 85 percent of America's venture capital and entrepreneurs.
> You get Alabama.
>
> We get two-thirds of the tax revenue. You get to make the red states
> pay their fair share.
>
> Sincerely,
> Author Unknown in New California.
> -------------------------------------------------
> And the weather sucks.
>
> Lew

Sounds like the blue states come up short.

Gramp's shop wrote:
>
> With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the
> country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce,
> 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you
> can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90
> percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal,
> all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven

That's cool.

On the other hand, Texas controls 70% of the nation's refining capacity. But
your high tech wizards should be able to figure out how to run your cars on
coal.

Wait! I forgot! You'll all be driving electric cars!

Never mind, then.

On 11/12/2012 7:42 PM, RonB wrote:
> On Monday, November 12, 2012 7:09:31 PM UTC-6, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>> As I remember, the last time this was tried, we fought a civil war.
>>
>
> Yeah. Could get rough down there. The US will close all it's Texas military bases and move aircraft and arms to the Oklahoma, Louisiana and NM bases. In addition to going to war with a well fortified northern border they will have to deal with what is becoming a menacing threat on their southern border.
>
> But they will still have some crop dusters.
>
> This can go on forever.
>
> RonB
>


Pfft. That's a joke, right.

Oklahoma is still Indian Nation Territory!

They don't like the Blue Coats much up there.

:)

On 11/13/2012 1:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> "HeyBub"<[email protected]> writes:
>> Gramp's shop wrote:
>>>
>>> With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the
>>> country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce,
>>> 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you
>>> can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90
>>> percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal,
>>> all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven
>>
>> That's cool.
>>
>> On the other hand, Texas controls 70% of the nation's refining capacity.
>
> 25%, actually. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_capprod_a_%28na%29_8pa_BSD_a.htm
>

That's enough to run Texas ok, and maybe a bit left over for
foreign aid...

Richard <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 11/13/2012 4:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Richard<[email protected]> writes:
>>> On 11/13/2012 1:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> "HeyBub"<[email protected]> writes:
>>>>> Gramp's shop wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of
>>>>>> the country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and
>>>>>> lettuce, 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's
>>>>>> quality wines (you can serve French wines at state dinners) 90%
>>>>>> of all cheese, 90 percent of the high tech industry, most of the
>>>>>> US low sulfur coal, all living redwoods, sequoias and condors,
>>>>>> all the Ivy and Seven
>>>>>
>>>>> That's cool.
>>>>>
>>>>> On the other hand, Texas controls 70% of the nation's refining
>>>>> capacity.
>>>>
>>>> 25%, actually.
>>>> http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_capprod_a_%28na%29_8pa_BSD_a.htm
>>>
>>> That's enough to run Texas ok, and maybe a bit left over for
>>> foreign aid...
>
>> Until one realizes that something like 70% of the federal income
>> taxes paid by texans are funnelled back into the state; which means
>> that even _if_ texas were to succeed at secession, they'd have to
>> impose high state taxes to cover the shortfall.
>
> I think we are doing our math differently.
> 100% going out and 70% coming back?
>
> I think we'd do ok.
>
> And no "income" tax. (sacrilege!)
>>
>> Not to mention that the border gets 400% longer and would cost a
>> great deal more to secure.
>
> Not a problem.
> Get the Feds out of the way and we can deal with the borders.
>
> But it's just a pipe dream.

I think that Scott meant that of the Federal taxes paid by Texas, 70%
goes back to them (I didn't check the figures). That means that Texas
would save some of the money paid to the feds, but not really that much.
They would have to raise that 70% for themselves, plus they would have to
find a way to pay their own military, diplomats, etc.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

Dave <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> On 14 Nov 2012 12:57:54 GMT, Han <[email protected]> wrote:
>>They would have to raise that 70% for themselves, plus they would have
>>to find a way to pay their own military, diplomats, etc.
>
> Well, considering the amount of armament that regular Texans
> supposedly have in their homes, their military wouldn't need to budget
> much to get them armed. :)

How many "regular Texans" to defend the refineries etc around Houston from
air attack? I am just saying, we aren't only concerned with Joe common
criminal here.

--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid

On Monday, November 12, 2012 7:10:31 PM UTC-6, Richard wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 6:46 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>=20
> > RonB wrote:
>=20
> >> Hmmmm - That might work out for the rest of us. The government can
>=20
> >> take the social security funds intended for that "new country" and
>=20
> >> add them to the dwindling fund for the rest of us. Ditto Medicare
>=20
> >> funds, etc.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Are you kidding me? We'll have to give them Foreign Aid if they get aw=
ay
>=20
> > with this. Then we'll have all of those Texans sneaking into Arizona, =
New
>=20
> > Mexico and California...
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Read it and weep...
>=20
>=20
>=20
> All told, petitions have been filed on behalf of 20 states:
>=20
> Alabama,
>=20
> Arkansas,
>=20
> Colorado,
>=20
> Florida,
>=20
> Georgia,
>=20
> Indiana,
>=20
> Kentucky,
>=20
> Louisiana,
>=20
> Michigan,
>=20
> Mississippi,
>=20
> Missouri,
>=20
> Montana,
>=20
> New Jersey,
>=20
> New York,
>=20
> North Carolina,
>=20
> North Dakota,
>=20
> Oregon,
>=20
> South Carolina,
>=20
> Tennessee,
>=20
> and Texas. - first to complete :)

Why the hell would Oregon want out? Granted, the Oregon countryside is pre=
tty moderate. But the cities that control the state are in the category of=
nutcase liberal. Go to Portland in June and you can witness the mayor-app=
roved nude bike ride. Take some Dramamine first.

RonB

Richard <[email protected]> writes:
>On 11/13/2012 1:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> "HeyBub"<[email protected]> writes:
>>> Gramp's shop wrote:
>>>>
>>>> With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the
>>>> country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce,
>>>> 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you
>>>> can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90
>>>> percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal,
>>>> all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven
>>>
>>> That's cool.
>>>
>>> On the other hand, Texas controls 70% of the nation's refining capacity.
>>
>> 25%, actually. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_capprod_a_%28na%29_8pa_BSD_a.htm
>>
>
>That's enough to run Texas ok, and maybe a bit left over for
>foreign aid...

Until one realizes that something like 70% of the federal income
taxes paid by texans are funnelled back into the state; which means
that even _if_ texas were to succeed at secession, they'd have to impose
high state taxes to cover the shortfall.

Not to mention that the border gets 400% longer and would cost a great
deal more to secure.

On Monday, November 12, 2012 7:09:31 PM UTC-6, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>=20
> As I remember, the last time this was tried, we fought a civil war.
>=20

Yeah. Could get rough down there. The US will close all it's Texas milita=
ry bases and move aircraft and arms to the Oklahoma, Louisiana and NM bases=
. In addition to going to war with a well fortified northern border they w=
ill have to deal with what is becoming a menacing threat on their southern =
border.

But they will still have some crop dusters.

This can go on forever.

RonB=20

On 11/12/2012 6:46 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> RonB wrote:
>> Hmmmm - That might work out for the rest of us. The government can
>> take the social security funds intended for that "new country" and
>> add them to the dwindling fund for the rest of us. Ditto Medicare
>> funds, etc.
>>
>
>
> Are you kidding me? We'll have to give them Foreign Aid if they get away
> with this. Then we'll have all of those Texans sneaking into Arizona, New
> Mexico and California...
>



Read it and weep...

All told, petitions have been filed on behalf of 20 states:
Alabama,
Arkansas,
Colorado,
Florida,
Georgia,
Indiana,
Kentucky,
Louisiana,
Michigan,
Mississippi,
Missouri,
Montana,
New Jersey,
New York,
North Carolina,
North Dakota,
Oregon,
South Carolina,
Tennessee,
and Texas. - first to complete :)

Bob F wrote:
>
> Let me guess - All red states that currently get more money back from
> the Feds than they pay in taxes? Actually, IIRC Texas might be the
> one exception to that rule.
>
> We won't miss 'em.

Every state contributes something important to the Union and would be
missed.

The biggest advantage to Texas in the proposed secession would be the
ability to control its borders. By that I mean keeping the liberals out.

On Monday, November 12, 2012 7:56:00 PM UTC-6, Richard wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 7:42 PM, RonB wrote:
>=20
> > On Monday, November 12, 2012 7:09:31 PM UTC-6, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >> As I remember, the last time this was tried, we fought a civil war.
>=20
> >>
>=20
> >
>=20
> > Yeah. Could get rough down there. The US will close all it's Texas mi=
litary bases and move aircraft and arms to the Oklahoma, Louisiana and NM b=
ases. In addition to going to war with a well fortified northern border th=
ey will have to deal with what is becoming a menacing threat on their south=
ern border.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > But they will still have some crop dusters.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > This can go on forever.
>=20
> >
>=20
> > RonB
>=20
> >
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Pfft. That's a joke, right.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Oklahoma is still Indian Nation Territory!
>=20
>=20
>=20
> They don't like the Blue Coats much up there.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> :)

Well, yeah it was a joke, but there are six bases in Oklahoma including Tin=
ker AFB which controls a lot of the USAF logistics operations as well as tr=
aining and operational wings. Oh - BTW Tinker AFB is named after the firs=
t Native American to reach general officer rank, Gen. Clarance Tinker. He =
was killed in an aerial mission during WWII.

Not entirely kidding about Mexico. I think they are going to become more o=
f a problem as time goes on.

RonB

Hmmmm - That might work out for the rest of us. The government can take the social security funds intended for that "new country" and add them to the dwindling fund for the rest of us. Ditto Medicare funds, etc.

Not sure what the new country does with their retired. :)

On 11/13/2012 4:29 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Richard<[email protected]> writes:
>> On 11/13/2012 1:17 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> "HeyBub"<[email protected]> writes:
>>>> Gramp's shop wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the
>>>>> country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce,
>>>>> 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you
>>>>> can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90
>>>>> percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal,
>>>>> all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven
>>>>
>>>> That's cool.
>>>>
>>>> On the other hand, Texas controls 70% of the nation's refining capacity.
>>>
>>> 25%, actually. http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_pnp_capprod_a_%28na%29_8pa_BSD_a.htm
>>>
>>
>> That's enough to run Texas ok, and maybe a bit left over for
>> foreign aid...
>

> Until one realizes that something like 70% of the federal income
> taxes paid by texans are funnelled back into the state; which means
> that even _if_ texas were to succeed at secession, they'd have to impose
> high state taxes to cover the shortfall.


I think we are doing our math differently.
100% going out and 70% coming back?

I think we'd do ok.

And no "income" tax. (sacrilege!)


>
> Not to mention that the border gets 400% longer and would cost a great
> deal more to secure.

Not a problem.
Get the Feds out of the way and we can deal with the borders.


But it's just a pipe dream.

On 11/12/2012 2:31 PM, Richard wrote:
> Texas, and 18 other states? This ought to be interesting...
>
> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B>
>
>
>
> The Lone Star offering (the handiwork of an Arlington resident named
> “Micah H”) reads as follows:
>
> We petition the Obama Administration to peacefully grant the State
> of Texas to withdraw from the United States of America and create its
> own NEW government.
>
> The US continues to suffer economic difficulties stemming from the
> federal government’s neglect to reform domestic and foreign spending.
> The citizens of the US suffer from blatant abuses of their rights such as
> the NDAA, the TSA, etc. Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced
> budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically
> feasible
> for Texas to withdraw from the union, and to do so would protect it’s
> citizens’
> standard of living and re-secure their rights and liberties in
> accordance with
> the original ideas and beliefs of our founding fathers which are no longer
> being reflected by the federal government.
>
> The petition’s been up since Friday, and when I first clicked on it at 8:30
> this morning there were 16,848 signatures; eight minutes later that number
> had jumped by 100. (Update at 9:17 a.m.: Now, more than 17,300 have
> signed the petition.) Never mind that Texas can’t secede from the Union:
> As Gawker points out, should the petition reach the 25,000-signature
> threshold, well, “White House staff will review it, ensure it’s sent to the
> appropriate policy experts, and issue an official response.”
>
> Looking forward to that update.
Unfortunately I don't live in Texas. However I do live in one of the
other flyover Red states.

If those state were to cut their ties with the Washington government We
would be the strongest country in the world. Logistically most of the
manufacturing facilities are contained with in this region. Oil,
natural gas, most of the mineral production in the part of the
continent. They would have the necessary sea ports for trade. Most of
the Current US military facilities are located in this area.

Why should we let the coastal cities dictate our way of life.

Keith Nuttle wrote:
> On 11/12/2012 2:31 PM, Richard wrote:
>> Texas, and 18 other states? This ought to be interesting...
>>
>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B>
>>

Did they say anything about paying their portion of the national debt
before they go?

Bill wrote:
> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>> On 11/12/2012 2:31 PM, Richard wrote:
>>> Texas, and 18 other states? This ought to be interesting...
>>>
>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B>
>>>
>>>
>
> Did they say anything about paying their portion of the national debt
> before they go?
>

The petition seems to suggest the first reason for it is to protect its
citizens' standard of living. Whatever happened to "We're'all in this
together?--one nation, indivisible..."

RonB wrote:
> Hmmmm - That might work out for the rest of us. The government can
> take the social security funds intended for that "new country" and
> add them to the dwindling fund for the rest of us. Ditto Medicare
> funds, etc.
>


Are you kidding me? We'll have to give them Foreign Aid if they get away
with this. Then we'll have all of those Texans sneaking into Arizona, New
Mexico and California...

--

-Mike-
[email protected]

"Larry Jaques" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 12:56:46 -0800 (PST), Noons <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>On Nov 13, 6:31 am, Richard <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Looking forward to that update.
>>
>>Don't let the door slap them on the back on the way out...
>
> There are petitions circulating in -15- states now.
> The plot thickens...

Let me guess - All red states that currently get more money back from the Feds
than they pay in taxes? Actually, IIRC Texas might be the one exception to that
rule.

We won't miss 'em.

On 11/12/2012 10:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:11:58 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Bill wrote:
>>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>>> On 11/12/2012 2:31 PM, Richard wrote:
>>>>> Texas, and 18 other states? This ought to be interesting...
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>> Did they say anything about paying their portion of the national debt
>>> before they go?
>>>
>>
>> The petition seems to suggest the first reason for it is to protect its
>> citizens' standard of living. Whatever happened to "We're'all in this
>> together?--one nation, indivisible..."

When obama, the supposed president of the UNITED States, works to divide
the country into the rich and the poor. the black and the white, the
young and the old, the workers and the businesses, it becomes impossible
for this to be one nation indivisible under GOD.

I think the social democrats ideas of diversity has done more damage to
this country than nearly any other idea. What would Martin Luther King
think of a president that was working to divide this country not bring
it together to work as one? From his speeches I thing there are a lot
of things that the social democrats are doing in his name that he would
find disgusting.

On 11/13/2012 2:04 PM, HeyBub wrote:
> Gramp's shop wrote:
>>
>> With the Blue States in hand we will have firm control of 80% of the
>> country's fresh water, more than 90% of the pineapple and lettuce,
>> 92% of the nation's fresh fruit, 95% of America's quality wines (you
>> can serve French wines at state dinners) 90% of all cheese, 90
>> percent of the high tech industry, most of the US low sulfur coal,
>> all living redwoods, sequoias and condors, all the Ivy and Seven
>
> That's cool.
>
> On the other hand, Texas controls 70% of the nation's refining capacity. But
> your high tech wizards should be able to figure out how to run your cars on
> coal.
>
> Wait! I forgot! You'll all be driving electric cars!
>
> Never mind, then.
>
>
Many of the things they depend on are from the area that are seceding.

As for the electricity, as I remember electricity is generate from
Natural gas, coal, solar panels (when the sun shines), and wind mills
when there is wind. Gas and coal are from the area wishing to secede,
and there is not enough area in the concrete canyons for wind mills and
solar panels. May be they can be harness the hot air from Washington DC

On Mon, 12 Nov 2012 18:11:58 -0500, Bill <[email protected]> wrote:

>Bill wrote:
>> Keith Nuttle wrote:
>>> On 11/12/2012 2:31 PM, Richard wrote:
>>>> Texas, and 18 other states? This ought to be interesting...
>>>>
>>>> <https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/peacefully-grant-state-texas-withdraw-united-states-america-and-create-its-own-new-government/BmdWCP8B>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> Did they say anything about paying their portion of the national debt
>> before they go?
>>
>
>The petition seems to suggest the first reason for it is to protect its
>citizens' standard of living. Whatever happened to "We're'all in this
>together?--one nation, indivisible..."

When the gov't no longer listens to or supports its citizens...

--
While we have the gift of life, it seems to me that only tragedy
is to allow part of us to die - whether it is our spirit, our
creativity, or our glorious uniqueness.
-- Gilda Radner

Charlie Self wrote:
>>
>> Every state contributes something important to the Union and would be
>>
>> missed.
>>
>>
>>
>> The biggest advantage to Texas in the proposed secession would be the
>>
>> ability to control its borders. By that I mean keeping the liberals
>> out.
>
> Not to worry. I won't even fly over Texas.

And we appreciate your thoughtfullness.

On 11/12/2012 7:45 PM, RonB wrote:
> On Monday, November 12, 2012 7:10:31 PM UTC-6, Richard wrote:
>> On 11/12/2012 6:46 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>> RonB wrote:
>>
>>>> Hmmmm - That might work out for the rest of us. The government can
>>
>>>> take the social security funds intended for that "new country" and
>>
>>>> add them to the dwindling fund for the rest of us. Ditto Medicare
>>
>>>> funds, etc.
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Are you kidding me? We'll have to give them Foreign Aid if they get away
>>
>>> with this. Then we'll have all of those Texans sneaking into Arizona, New
>>
>>> Mexico and California...
>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read it and weep...
>>
>>
>>
>> All told, petitions have been filed on behalf of 20 states:
>>
>> Alabama,
>>
>> Arkansas,
>>
>> Colorado,
>>
>> Florida,
>>
>> Georgia,
>>
>> Indiana,
>>
>> Kentucky,
>>
>> Louisiana,
>>
>> Michigan,
>>
>> Mississippi,
>>
>> Missouri,
>>
>> Montana,
>>
>> New Jersey,
>>
>> New York,
>>
>> North Carolina,
>>
>> North Dakota,
>>
>> Oregon,
>>
>> South Carolina,
>>
>> Tennessee,
>>
>> and Texas. - first to complete :)
>
> Why the hell would Oregon want out? Granted, the Oregon countryside is pretty moderate.
But the cities that control the state are in the category of nutcase
liberal.
Go to Portland in June and you can witness the mayor-approved nude bike
ride.
Take some Dramamine first.
>
> RonB


I suspect this isn't about liberal or conservative politics.

Probably more about being "fed up" with the Federal snotty attitude,
economic irresponsibility, TSA, Homeland Security, CONGRESS!, LYING,
etc, etc, etc.

Just my guess.

But whatever is at the root of it - it's a happening!