Every endeavor has it's masters.
Today it was golf's turn to shine.
The PGA championship was played this week end.
The top players in the world competed and put on
a clinic how the game should be played.
Some of the shots made were marvels to observe.
In the end, Rory McIlroy, a 25 year old Irishman,
from Northern Ireland, won as darkness closed in on Valhalla,
a course located near Louisville, KY.
Last week McIlroy won on the "Monster", the south coarse
at Firestone, near Akron where Arnie, Jack, Gary. and the
Merry Mex, Lee Trivono competed during the 1960s.
Two weeks ago, McIlroy won the British Open.
IOW, he has won three (3) weeks in a row.
Think we are looking at a phenomenon here.
Many players play their entire career and don't win three (3)
tournaments.
Think this young man is something special.
Lew
On 8/13/2014 8:53 AM, Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2014-08-13, Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 8/12/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't agree with that assessment at all. As a guy that plays golf,
>>>> the golf cart was introduced to speed up the game. The exercise
>>>> still comes from the swing.
>>>
>>> ROTHFMAO! Your killing me.... Stop it.
>>
>> Well - rumor has it that is exactly why the cart was introduced.
>
> Then why do me and my frieds (who all walk) always spend so much time
> waiting for cart golfers who can't seem to keep up?
>
Because the carts will go out into the rough and way our of bounds to
retrieve their balls. I have seen guys in carts spend 5 minutes driving
around in the tall grass looking for a ball. The walker typically will
walk straight to where his ball went. When you have 2 players in a cart
the driver typically goes straight towards one or the other ball. They
loose track of where the other ball went. Walkers split up and go
straight towards his or her ball. In a cart you go to one ball and then
the other. No time is really saved.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Every endeavor has it's masters.
>>
>> Today it was golf's turn to shine.
>>
>> The PGA championship was played this week end.
>>
>> The top players in the world competed and put on
>> a clinic how the game should be played.
>>
>> Some of the shots made were marvels to observe.
>>
>> In the end, Rory McIlroy, a 25 year old Irishman,
>> from Northern Ireland, won as darkness closed in on Valhalla,
>> a course located near Louisville, KY.
>>
>> Last week McIlroy won on the "Monster", the south coarse
>> at Firestone, near Akron where Arnie, Jack, Gary. and the
>> Merry Mex, Lee Trivono competed during the 1960s.
>>
>> Two weeks ago, McIlroy won the British Open.
>>
>> IOW, he has won three (3) weeks in a row.
>>
>> Think we are looking at a phenomenon here.
>>
>> Many players play their entire career and don't win three (3)
>> tournaments.
>>
>> Think this young man is something special.
>>
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> Indeed he is. As is Ricki Fowler and a small handful of others.
> The new crop of players are indeed impressive to watch. Not sure
> whether to expect them to equal what Tiger did as he came up
> through, but I think they face more competition from within their
> own age ranks than previous generations of Champions did as they
> came up through. There's a lot of very good young golfers playing
> against each other right now.
--------------------------------------------------------------
Back in the 1970s, I played a LOT of golf.
I consistently hit 240-250 off the tees while the pros were hitting
250-260.
Matter of fact, was given the nickname of "Gringo Gorilla" by the
caddies
in the Dominican Republic while on a trip there.
But alas, driving was the limit of my game and as the old saying goes,
you drive for show, but you putt for dough, and I didn't putt very
well.
What really blows my mind is how today's pros hit the ball.
In 1972, a pro would hit a drive 250-260.
Forty years later, pros like Bubba and McIlroy drive 350 yards and
hit a 9 iron 200 yards.
I'm certain some of this is due to physical conditioning, but that
doesn't
account for an almost 50% increase in stroke distance.
Haven't kept up with things since I quit playing, but upgrades in
equipment appear to be significant.
All these changes in capability means that "The Monster", #16, at
Firestone, a 627 yard par 5 has been reduced from a drive, a
fairway wood, and a short iron for position to an attempt for a birdie
putt,
to a drive, a fairway wood and a chip or even a putt for eagle.
It certainly is a different game being played today.
Lew
"Leon" wrote:
Mike Marlow wrote:
> I pretty much quit playing 20 or so years ago as most of the courses
> required a cart to speed up play. I hated riding a cart. There is
> something about feeling the condition of the ground, the wind
> direction around the area of your ball that just does not factor in
> when you fly up to your ball on a golf cart. I played much better
> golf when walking than when riding.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm with you, playing with a powered cart sucks unless of course
you are the beer cart.<G>
OTOH, a pull cart worked for me or even just a Sunday bag works.
Always thought the basic reason you play golf is to get some exercise.
Lew
On 8/13/2014 4:26 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>> That might be true but there are too many variables to make a quick
>>> comparison. Pros have caddies that do all of the heavy lifting for
>>> them, they have marshalls that spot their balls for them - lots of
>>> differences. I just do not believe we can compare the pros to the
>>> casual golfer in any respect.
>>
>> I don't think many "scratch" golfers, that you referred to, are casual
>> golfers.
>>
>
> Well - you are mixing comments that I have made, but in fact there are a
> large number of guys in my league that are below 14 hanidcap for 18.
> Certainly not scratch but much better than most. Some are scratch players
> who have tried out for the pro tournements that have come around here,. Are
> they casual? Well I guess that depnds upon our definition of casual. They
> have day jobs and golf is an after hours event for them.
>
>> Not so much a purist view as an actual experience view. I rode in
>> carts too, they were fun, but my game got much better when I had got
>> serious about improving and as a result shortening my walk.
>
> Can't argue with that. Each of us experience different needs in improving
> our games. Could be swing issues, relaxation issues, or a lot of other
> things. Can't though, reduce it all to what we experienced in our own game.
> It's different for differnt people.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> It may not be windy in that spot, behind the trees, at all.
>
> And it does not matter that much if you walked up to the ball or drove up to
> it. You can still feel the wind. If the wind is not prevelent when you go
> to hit the ball, it does not matter what you felt as you were 100 yards away
> from the ball.
You do realize that the wind 100 yards away is likely to be similar to
wind in the other direction. Wind does not typically blow north and
south, or east, or west when the ball is up in the air above the
surrounding trees and or buildings.
My point is you are constantly changing direction on the course even on
the same hole, The wind not so much. As you walk through clearings and
openings you feel the wind direction. There may be no wind at the ball
location as it may be protected. Hit the ball 30' high in the air the
wind is there again affecting your shot.
With a golf cart the wind tends to always be in your face and you may
never get a feel from which direction the wind is coming.
>
>
>>> That's a point that I disagree with. I submit that regardless of the
>>> walking effort, the play plays the course. Every shot is about
>>> getting to the hole and little or no thought is about the walk or
>>> the ride to the next lie. That's where I believe the purist
>>> argument comes into play. I've never once ever heard a cart player
>>> suggest that the lie did not matter because he could get to it in a
>>> cart...
>>
>> The cart rider dies not care where he has to go or how far to get to
>> his ball, the walker does. I really did not see many cart golfers
>> put as much thinking into their game as the walkers.
>
> I totally disagree and this is the only real point upon which I disagree.
> Like I said - when was the last time you were on a course and honestly
> looked at the players. On this particular point I think you are simply
> dreaming.
What ever.
On 8/13/2014 10:50 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Because the carts will go out into the rough and way our of bounds to
>> retrieve their balls.
>
> really? Please Leon - this is a golfer thing - not a cart vs walking thing.
> I see just as many walkers doing this very same thing as I do cart players.
>
>> I have seen guys in carts spend 5 minutes
>> driving around in the tall grass looking for a ball.
>
> Yup - I do not deny that. But - I see every bit as many walkers doing the
> same thing. That's just wrong no matter what means of movement.
So basically, the carts are not speeding up play, which was my point.
>
>> The walker
>> typically will walk straight to where his ball went.
>
> The walker who wants to present his style of play may say that, but if you
> had been out on a course in the past 10 years you would know that is not
> true - not at all.
Yeah, time does not change the thinking unless the courses are littered
with hacks.
They move slowly because they feel they have some
> fundamental right to do so, and they then display the same inconsiderations
> as the cart players do when it comes to finding their ball or going to ball
> placement.
Ball placement, all too often, assuming there is not a regulation that
allows relocation of the ball the ball should be hit where it lies. And
today's golfers may be may be confused as to how golf should be played.
I was a little bit of a bogie golfer, legitimate bogie golfer. I did
not hit mulligans, did not move my ball to a better lie, did not clam
gimme's on th4e green. I counted every stroke and penalty stroke. I
often found it interesting that when I played with some one new and I
indicated how I played and they indicated that they some times played
par in a round that I almost always easily beat them. I counted their
strokes and their penalties. I guarantee you that if you start walking
the course your game will get better.
I fully disagree with what you say above. Maybe you need to
> play more and remember less - people and times have changed.
> Unfortunately...
>
>
>> When you have 2
>> players in a cart the driver typically goes straight towards one or
>> the other ball. They loose track of where the other ball went.
>
> Really? Have you played since those old days Leon?
How has that changed???
>
>> Walkers split up and go straight towards his or her ball. In a cart
>> you go to one ball and then the other. No time is really saved.
>
> Really (again) - have you really played in the past 10 years Leon? Golf
> etiquette used to be one thing but it has failed miserably over the years.
> The things you remember from way back when are not the same today. Well -
> not all of them, anyway.
>
So the walkers don't walk to where they think they hit their balls?
Regardless it seems you have witnessed that the carts don't really speed
up play. Walking will reward you in so much that the penalty of putzing
around will make you walk more and walking is very good for your cardio
vs. riding.
Maybe it is a Yankee thang. ;~0 D,&,R
On 8/11/2014 8:29 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Leon" wrote:
>
> Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> I pretty much quit playing 20 or so years ago as most of the courses
>> required a cart to speed up play. I hated riding a cart. There is
>> something about feeling the condition of the ground, the wind
>> direction around the area of your ball that just does not factor in
>> when you fly up to your ball on a golf cart. I played much better
>> golf when walking than when riding.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> I'm with you, playing with a powered cart sucks unless of course
> you are the beer cart.<G>
>
> OTOH, a pull cart worked for me or even just a Sunday bag works.
I eventually graduated to a hand pulled cart.
>
> Always thought the basic reason you play golf is to get some exercise.
Absolutely.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
On Sunday, August 10, 2014 8:26:50 PM UTC-5, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Every endeavor has it's masters.=20
I tuned out about an hour before the tournament ended (went to eat out), th=
inking McIlroy (2 shots behind at -11 or -12, I think) and Mickelson (-11, =
I think) would not win. When I learned of the results (-16 won), I realize=
d I missed a great ending. I wonder if my brother taped it!
Sonny
On 8/13/2014 11:40 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 8/13/2014 10:50 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> So basically, the carts are not speeding up play, which was my point.
>>
>
> Nope - disagree. The whole thought behind speeding the play was all about
> getting the player to the ball quicker than walking. Everything after that
> is just golf etiquette. But - they do get the player to the ball faster.
>
>>>
>>>> The walker
>>>> typically will walk straight to where his ball went.
>>>
>>> The walker who wants to present his style of play may say that, but
>>> if you had been out on a course in the past 10 years you would know
>>> that is not true - not at all.
>>
>> Yeah, time does not change the thinking unless the courses are
>> littered with hacks.
>>
>
> Leon - you really need to get back on the course and take an honest and
> objective look at play.
>
>>
>> They move slowly because they feel they have some
>>> fundamental right to do so, and they then display the same
>>> inconsiderations as the cart players do when it comes to finding
>>> their ball or going to ball placement.
>>
>> Ball placement, all too often, assuming there is not a regulation
>> that allows relocation of the ball the ball should be hit where it
>> lies. And today's golfers may be may be confused as to how golf
>> should be played. I was a little bit of a bogie golfer, legitimate
>> bogie golfer. I did not hit mulligans, did not move my ball to a
>> better lie, did not clam gimme's on th4e green.
>
> This is exactly how I play, and I am a 90's golfer - not all that great.
I was generally in the low to mid 80's.
>
>> I counted every
>> stroke and penalty stroke.
>
> As do I. I maintain that it does not help my game to take "shortcuts".
What shortcuts?
>
>> I often found it interesting that when I
>> played with some one new and I indicated how I played and they
>> indicated that they some times played par in a round that I almost
>> always easily beat them. I counted their strokes and their
>> penalties. I guarantee you that if you start walking the course your
>> game will get better.
>>
>
> So this is where our experiences differ but our philosophies agree. It's
> not at all about walking the course or riding the course. It's all about
> your personal standards. You and I shoot to the same ethical standards.
> Don't matter a bit if we do that from our flat feet or from a cart.
But if you build up the stamina to walk the whole course you will become
a better golfer. And if you are on the 15th and fly to ball 20 yards
past the green you pay the physical penalty if you are walking. No big
deal if you are riding in a cart.
>
>
>>>
>>>> When you have 2
>>>> players in a cart the driver typically goes straight towards one or
>>>> the other ball. They loose track of where the other ball went.
>>>
>>> Really? Have you played since those old days Leon?
>>
>> How has that changed???
>
> Just to point out that this is not how players experience the game. Believe
> it or not we really can keep track of 2 balls with the same accuracy as
> those who walk the course.
Then I will have to say your courses may not be as rough as some that I
have played on. For example, when you go off the fairway into the rough
you are instantly in 18" tall field grass and trees. You can't see the
ball and likely will not find it unless you go straight to the point
that it went in and follow that line. Not unusual at all to almost step
on the ball before you spot it. That is tough to do when approaching
from another angle in a cart.
>
>>
>>>
>>>> Walkers split up and go straight towards his or her ball. In a cart
>>>> you go to one ball and then the other. No time is really saved.
>>>
>>> Really (again) - have you really played in the past 10 years Leon? Golf
>>> etiquette used to be one thing but it has failed miserably over
>>> the years. The things you remember from way back when are not the
>>> same today. Well - not all of them, anyway.
>>>
>> So the walkers don't walk to where they think they hit their balls?
>
> Been on the course lately?
As I have indicated, it has be 20 years and if what you are describing
is the norm I'll probably never play again.
>
>>
>> Regardless it seems you have witnessed that the carts don't really
>> speed up play.
>
> Huh? I never made any such statement. I said that was the reason for the
> introduction of carts and that seemed to have caused a stir. From that
> point I've only suggested that the proposed advantages in walking were not
> as they were suggested to be. Then I attempted to debunk some stuff about
> cart players vs walkers
In Corpus Christi, TX carts had been around for a long time be for the
70's. Dam few times do I recall seeing more than 3 or 4 carts on a
crowded course. I do recall seeing a long line of carts ready to be
rented. Carts are/were a convenience. I think the excuse of speeding
up play helps distract the facts that there is extra revenue collected
when the course requires you to use one. And yes I have a couple of
friends that have their own carts and did not get a full discount for
using their own, on some courses.
>
>
>>
>> Maybe it is a Yankee thang. ;~0 D,&,R
>
> Alas - I am totally defensless in the face of that one...
>
;~)
On 8/12/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/11/2014 8:29 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> Always thought the basic reason you play golf is to get some
>>> exercise.
>>
>> Not for today's pussified male, still playing virtual GI Joe at 35.
>>
>> Like the Lance Armstrong wannabes, all decked out for the Tour de
>> Sidewalk, in that little instant gratification mind all that is needed
>> to stoke that fragile self esteem to imaginary magnificence is to look
>> the part.
>>
>> Can't do that while sweating on the tweeds.
>
> Don't agree with that assessment at all.
You might not, but you'd be wrong about the "exercise":
http://golftips.golfsmith.com/many-calories-burned-playing-9-holes-golf-1483.html
_Walking vs. Cart_
"It comes as little surprise that golfers will burn more calories during
a round on the links should they choose to walk nine holes over using a
cart. According to Shapefit, an online health and nutrition advice site,
a 190-pound golfer will burn approximately 130 more calories per hour
(431 to 302) pulling his clubs on a wheeling device than by taking a
cart. Should a player elect to carry his clubs, that jumps to 474
calories per hour. Considering an average nine-hole outing takes between
two and three hours, golfers may burn upwards of 300 more calories total
by carrying or pulling their clubs."
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 8/11/2014 9:03 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>but I think they face
> more competition from within their own age ranks than previous generations
> of Champions did as they came up through. There's a lot of very good young
> golfers playing against each other right now.
Same with young musicians these days, many of them awesome, and
accomplished at a young age, beyond anything we had in my youth.
Many of us had to work to "pay for your keep" when young, and didn't
have the free time youngsters do today.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 8/13/2014 10:43 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Grant Edwards wrote:
>> On 2014-08-13, Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Leon wrote:
>>>> On 8/12/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't agree with that assessment at all. As a guy that plays golf,
>>>>> the golf cart was introduced to speed up the game. The exercise
>>>>> still comes from the swing.
>>>>
>>>> ROTHFMAO! Your killing me.... Stop it.
>>>
>>> Well - rumor has it that is exactly why the cart was introduced.
>>
>> Then why do me and my frieds (who all walk) always spend so much time
>> waiting for cart golfers who can't seem to keep up?
>
> Probably for the same reason that we always have to wait on the 2 some or 4
> some ahead of us that are walking. I have to say that I don't think I've
> ever had to let a walking 4 some or 2 some play through. I don't think your
> experience is at all typical. Maybe you're just very good golfers. You'd
> then probably experience the same thing regardless of cart vs. walking.
>
Think this way Mike, IME the better golfers do walk. When you ride in a
cart it is not real important to hit the ball down the fairway. When
you walk 3~5 miles you pay a little more attention to your surroundings,
course conditions, and try not chase the ball all over the course. When
riding in a cart there is no physical penalty for hitting your ball off
into the sticks.
On 8/12/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/11/2014 8:29 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>>
>>> Always thought the basic reason you play golf is to get some
>>> exercise.
>>
>> Not for today's pussified male, still playing virtual GI Joe at 35.
>>
>> Like the Lance Armstrong wannabes, all decked out for the Tour de
>> Sidewalk, in that little instant gratification mind all that is needed
>> to stoke that fragile self esteem to imaginary magnificence is to look
>> the part.
>>
>> Can't do that while sweating on the tweeds.
>
> Don't agree with that assessment at all. As a guy that plays golf, the golf
> cart was introduced to speed up the game. The exercise still comes from the
> swing.
ROTHFMAO! Your killing me.... Stop it.
You can find way too many hand cart players out there today who mope
> around the course feeling like they are doing something more worth the
> exercise, or more noble than the guys in the cart. As they analyze every
> shot for 10 minutes.
I found that to be true of those riding the carts. When walking you get
a feel for wind direction and ground conditions AND 3~7 minutes of time
to think about your shot as you approach.
All they do is hold up the game on the course. If
> they really wanted the exercise, they'd carry their clubs - 14 of them, in
> their bag. You don't see a lot of that anywhere. I completely disagree
> that the use of golf carts represents the pussification of the male, and I'd
> suggest that anyone who says that probably does not regularly play golf.
>
I am going to have to agree with Karl, and while I have not played golf
in probably 20 years, I started when I was 14, at age 15 I started
playing 5 days a week. Age 18 I took a 14 year break and began playing
weekly after that.
On 8/12/2014 10:17 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Physical conditioning has a lot to do with it but go to your local pro
>> shop and take a look at the woods. The woods/driver heads are mostly
>> a light weight alloy that more resembles the size of a large grape
>> fruit than an apple. By comparison the ball appears to be about 1/3
>> the width of the face of the club.
>>
>> If I were to start playing again I might be embarrassed to drag out my
>> small Titlist Driver. ;~)
>>
>
> Hold off on that embarassement Leon. It appears that the latest move is
> going back towards smaller driver heads. You might just have the latest and
> greatest in your arsenal even as we speak...
I wonder if that is so because you almost need another bag just for the
woods? ;~)
>
>>
>> I quit playing the first time in the early 70's and took it back up in
>> the mid to later 80's. I was amazed at the smorgasbord of brands of
>> clubs and the multi colored balls. Ping was relatively new.
>>
>
> Yup - prior to the early/mid 80's they were just a putter company. But
> then...
>
On 8/13/2014 11:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/13/2014 10:51 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>> Yeahsowhat? You're criticizing that?...
>>
>> Damned right ... there is a reason that is a _woman_ with the bubble
>> wrap in that photo. The total lack of a father figure in approximately
>> 30% of the households is the highest, along with the divorce rate, it
>> has ever been in this culture.
>>
>
> Holy Cow - never even noticed that. Geeze...
Pretty good KoolAid huh? LOL
>
>> http://www.fatherhood.org/father-absence-statistics
>>
>> On a secondary, but arguably parallel issue, wonder why the suicide
>> rate of combat veterans in the past decade, to almost 22 a day, is so
>> much higher than in any conflict by American troops in the past?
>>
>> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/02/17148761-why-modern-soldiers-are-more-susceptible-to-suicide
>
> Ugh! now you're introducing another aspect of life that I haven't even
> wrapped my head around. Geeze - thanks Karl...
>
On 8/13/2014 11:59 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> I think you are missing my original point, it seems we have drifted
>> off a bit. I still maintain that as a whole the better golfers will
>> be the walkers in the grand scheme. Walking naturally is better for
>> you physically. But for the interest of going with good golfers
>> riding, I wonder how they would hold up against an equal player that
>> walks if both walked. I suspect the one that rides all of the time
>> would run out of steam, and that will affect judgement and his play.
>> Lets put the scratch golfers as a group up against the pro golfers
>> that walk. I bet their score differences will broaden.
>>
>>
>
> That might be true but there are too many variables to make a quick
> comparison. Pros have caddies that do all of the heavy lifting for them,
> they have marshalls that spot their balls for them - lots of differences. I
> just do not believe we can compare the pros to the casual golfer in any
> respect.
I don't think many "scratch" golfers, that you referred to, are casual
golfers.
>
>>>
>>>
>>>> When you ride
>>>> in a cart it is not real important to hit the ball down the fairway.
>>>
>>> Really? That presumes that score does not count. Sorry Leon - but
>>> that sounds like a purist's argument. Let's face it - it always
>>> matters where you hit the ball - it's not about travel to the ball,
>>> it's about score.
>>
>> The honest score does not count, even when I played. I played in
>> numerous, countless tournaments when I was young. Every thing was
>> legit and all penalties and strokes were counted. 20 years ago most
>> of the people I played did a lot of fudging.
>
> Ok - to stop there - that is a complete contradiction. Honest and fudging
> do not fit in the same description.
The tournaments were when I was much much younger, that was when the
honest game and score keeping was played. 20-25 years ago I was not
playing in tournaments, it was mostly business acquaintances.
>
>> Oh, my ball would have
>> a better lie if it rolled it over a few inches. Oh my T-shot went
>> out of bounds, MULLIGAN! Oh I'm with in 18" of the cup, I'll just
>> pick it up and maybe forget to count that as a stroke too.
>
> See above. Still - has nothing to do with walking vs a cart.
>
>
>>
>> Easy to say Mike, start walking and see of you have the same
>> perspective.
>
> I have walked - a lot before I got more serious about my golf. I just don't
> see that purist difference that you do.
Not so much a purist view as an actual experience view. I rode in carts
too, they were fun, but my game got much better when I had got serious
about improving and as a result shortening my walk.
>
>> It is tough to judge the wind when you ride in the cart
>
> Fully disagree. It's not like you are propelled out of the cart to make a
> shot before you can even feel the wind. That's just not true Leon.
>
>> and the wind is always in your face.
>
> ...until you get out of the cart...
It may not be windy in that spot, behind the trees, at all.
>
>
>>>> When riding in a cart there is no physical penalty for
>>>> hitting your ball off into the sticks.
>>>
>>> Perhaps, but there remains the stroke penalty. You're suggesting
>>> that the walk is somehow a bigger penalty - I do not buy that.
>>
>> Let me explain, You are carrying a 30lb bag for 3~5 miles if you par
>> the course. If you shoot in the 90's or higher you are going to
>> probably carry that bag 10~15% further and lake longer to do so. I
>> would call that a physical penalty. Either way carries the same
>> stroke penalty. When walking you do put more thinking and effort to
>> shorten the amount of steps and to keep from walking through the
>> brush.
>
> That's a point that I disagree with. I submit that regardless of the
> walking effort, the play plays the course. Every shot is about getting to
> the hole and little or no thought is about the walk or the ride to the next
> lie. That's where I believe the purist argument comes into play. I've
> never once ever heard a cart player suggest that the lie did not matter
> because he could get to it in a cart...
The cart rider dies not care where he has to go or how far to get to his
ball, the walker does. I really did not see many cart golfers put as
much thinking into their game as the walkers.
On Tuesday, August 12, 2014 8:50:27 AM UTC-5, Swingman wrote:
> On 8/11/2014 8:29 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>=20
>=20
>=20
> > Always thought the basic reason you play golf is to get some exercise.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Not for today's pussified male, still playing virtual GI Joe at 35.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Like the Lance Armstrong wannabes, all decked out for the Tour de=20
>=20
> Sidewalk, in that little instant gratification mind all that is needed=20
>=20
> to stoke that fragile self esteem to imaginary magnificence is to look=20
>=20
> the part.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> Can't do that while sweating on the tweeds.
>=20
You know Karl, the next thing is that you might convince me I don't look ve=
ry macho wearing a big hat, long sleeve shirt, nail bags, speed square stuc=
k in my back pocket sawing Hardie Plank. Even when using a nailer! The co=
mpressor roars, the gun bangs, the saws whine, and my clothes are wet all t=
he way through with sweat. It has been over 100 the last few days here, an=
d I am finishing up my siding job. Paint tomorrow and Friday, then off on =
Saturday.
You know, come to think of it, if I look half as tired as I feel, I probabl=
y don't look very macho. Probably more like a worn out, middle aged guy th=
at sweats a lot. Although... my lightweight nail bags are all black, so som=
eone might think I am some kind of ninja of some sorts. Especially if I ha=
ve my dust mask on when cutting the concrete trims. Unless they see me goin=
g up and down the ladder...
I have had some of those Rambonian tribe members work for me, and they are =
F'n worthless. Had them quit before lunch many a time. Some of them sure =
looked good, though. Nice muscles, good tribal ink, great haircuts and nea=
tly styled beards, and properly worn and distressed looking name brand clot=
hes.
Robert
On 8/11/2014 8:29 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Always thought the basic reason you play golf is to get some exercise.
Not for today's pussified male, still playing virtual GI Joe at 35.
Like the Lance Armstrong wannabes, all decked out for the Tour de
Sidewalk, in that little instant gratification mind all that is needed
to stoke that fragile self esteem to imaginary magnificence is to look
the part.
Can't do that while sweating on the tweeds.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 8/10/2014 8:26 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Every endeavor has it's masters.
>
> Today it was golf's turn to shine.
>
> The PGA championship was played this week end.
>
> The top players in the world competed and put on
> a clinic how the game should be played.
>
> Some of the shots made were marvels to observe.
>
> In the end, Rory McIlroy, a 25 year old Irishman,
> from Northern Ireland, won as darkness closed in on Valhalla,
> a course located near Louisville, KY.
>
> Last week McIlroy won on the "Monster", the south coarse
> at Firestone, near Akron where Arnie, Jack, Gary. and the
> Merry Mex, Lee Trivono competed during the 1960s.
>
> Two weeks ago, McIlroy won the British Open.
>
> IOW, he has won three (3) weeks in a row.
>
> Think we are looking at a phenomenon here.
>
> Many players play their entire career and don't win three (3)
> tournaments.
>
> Think this young man is something special.
Turned it on about the 15th hole and sat, mesmerized, until the end. Not
a sports fan, but Golf seems to be about the only one left that actually
highlights individual effort without being saturated with some form of
corruption.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 8/11/2014 12:23 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 8/11/2014 9:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> Swingman wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Turned it on about the 15th hole and sat, mesmerized, until the end.
>>>> Not a sports fan, but Golf seems to be about the only one left that
>>>> actually highlights individual effort without being saturated with
>>>> some form of corruption.
>>>
>>> I thought only golfers could tolerate watching golf on TV. After
>>> all, it is somewhat like watching paint dry (and only Leon could
>>> enjoy that...). I do enjoy it because I pretend to play the game,
>>> so I tell people I am a golfer - of sorts... Karl - you are the last
>>> person in the world I
>>> would ever have suspected of sitting down to watch a rousing round
>>> of golf on a Sunday afternoon...
>>>
>>
>>
>> Reread what he wrote Mike, he did not watch a round of golf, only 4
>> holes. LOL
>
> yeahbut... for a non-golfer, I expect that seemed like a full round...
>
;~)
I played varsity golf in school, 5 days a week every afternoon for 3
years, could only squeeze in 9 holes in the winter.
Prior when my friends and I were learning we would show up at sun up and
quit playing at sun down. 36 holes a day during the summer was the
minimum. It mostly depended on how fast the old timers were playing.
I pretty much quit playing 20 or so years ago as most of the courses
required a cart to speed up play. I hated riding a cart. There is
something about feeling the condition of the ground, the wind direction
around the area of your ball that just does not factor in when you fly
up to your ball on a golf cart. I played much better golf when walking
than when riding.
;~)
On 8/11/2014 8:20 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>>> Every endeavor has it's masters.
>>>
>>> Today it was golf's turn to shine.
>>>
>>> The PGA championship was played this week end.
>>>
>>> The top players in the world competed and put on
>>> a clinic how the game should be played.
>>>
>>> Some of the shots made were marvels to observe.
>>>
>>> In the end, Rory McIlroy, a 25 year old Irishman,
>>> from Northern Ireland, won as darkness closed in on Valhalla,
>>> a course located near Louisville, KY.
>>>
>>> Last week McIlroy won on the "Monster", the south coarse
>>> at Firestone, near Akron where Arnie, Jack, Gary. and the
>>> Merry Mex, Lee Trivono competed during the 1960s.
>>>
>>> Two weeks ago, McIlroy won the British Open.
>>>
>>> IOW, he has won three (3) weeks in a row.
>>>
>>> Think we are looking at a phenomenon here.
>>>
>>> Many players play their entire career and don't win three (3)
>>> tournaments.
>>>
>>> Think this young man is something special.
>>>
>
> "Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
>> Indeed he is. As is Ricki Fowler and a small handful of others.
>> The new crop of players are indeed impressive to watch. Not sure
>> whether to expect them to equal what Tiger did as he came up
>> through, but I think they face more competition from within their
>> own age ranks than previous generations of Champions did as they
>> came up through. There's a lot of very good young golfers playing
>> against each other right now.
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Back in the 1970s, I played a LOT of golf.
>
> I consistently hit 240-250 off the tees while the pros were hitting
> 250-260.
>
> Matter of fact, was given the nickname of "Gringo Gorilla" by the
> caddies
> in the Dominican Republic while on a trip there.
>
> But alas, driving was the limit of my game and as the old saying goes,
> you drive for show, but you putt for dough, and I didn't putt very
> well.
>
> What really blows my mind is how today's pros hit the ball.
>
> In 1972, a pro would hit a drive 250-260.
>
> Forty years later, pros like Bubba and McIlroy drive 350 yards and
> hit a 9 iron 200 yards.
>
> I'm certain some of this is due to physical conditioning, but that
> doesn't
> account for an almost 50% increase in stroke distance.
Physical conditioning has a lot to do with it but go to your local pro
shop and take a look at the woods. The woods/driver heads are mostly a
light weight alloy that more resembles the size of a large grape fruit
than an apple. By comparison the ball appears to be about 1/3 the width
of the face of the club.
If I were to start playing again I might be embarrassed to drag out my
small Titlist Driver. ;~)
>
> Haven't kept up with things since I quit playing, but upgrades in
> equipment appear to be significant.
I quit playing the first time in the early 70's and took it back up in
the mid to later 80's. I was amazed at the smorgasbord of brands of
clubs and the multi colored balls. Ping was relatively new.
Oddly I played better golf a few months after starting again some 15
years later than when I was playing daily when on the school team.
On 8/13/2014 8:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 8/12/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Don't agree with that assessment at all. As a guy that plays golf,
>>> the golf cart was introduced to speed up the game. The exercise
>>> still comes from the swing.
>>
>> ROTHFMAO! Your killing me.... Stop it.
>
> Well - rumor has it that is exactly why the cart was introduced.
>
>>
>>
>>
>> You can find way too many hand cart players out there today who mope
>>> around the course feeling like they are doing something more worth
>>> the exercise, or more noble than the guys in the cart. As they
>>> analyze every shot for 10 minutes.
>>
>> I found that to be true of those riding the carts. When walking you
>> get a feel for wind direction and ground conditions AND 3~7 minutes
>> of time to think about your shot as you approach.
>>
>
> I don't disagree with that, it's more a case of experiences.
The pro's don't walk just because of the rules.
>
>>
>> All they do is hold up the game on the course. If
>>> they really wanted the exercise, they'd carry their clubs - 14 of
>>> them, in their bag. You don't see a lot of that anywhere. I
>>> completely disagree that the use of golf carts represents the
>>> pussification of the male, and I'd suggest that anyone who says that
>>> probably does not regularly play golf.
>>
>> I am going to have to agree with Karl, and while I have not played
>> golf in probably 20 years, I started when I was 14, at age 15 I
>> started playing 5 days a week. Age 18 I took a 14 year break and
>> began playing weekly after that.
>
> I still don't see where that equates to the pussification of the male.
>
> Anyone who thinks walkers burn more calories than those who use a cart has
> never seen how many strokes a player like me can take - even with a cart!
>
Now you are just being belligerent.
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> Every endeavor has it's masters.
>
> Today it was golf's turn to shine.
>
> The PGA championship was played this week end.
>
> The top players in the world competed and put on
> a clinic how the game should be played.
>
> Some of the shots made were marvels to observe.
>
> In the end, Rory McIlroy, a 25 year old Irishman,
> from Northern Ireland, won as darkness closed in on Valhalla,
> a course located near Louisville, KY.
>
> Last week McIlroy won on the "Monster", the south coarse
> at Firestone, near Akron where Arnie, Jack, Gary. and the
> Merry Mex, Lee Trivono competed during the 1960s.
>
> Two weeks ago, McIlroy won the British Open.
>
> IOW, he has won three (3) weeks in a row.
>
> Think we are looking at a phenomenon here.
>
> Many players play their entire career and don't win three (3)
> tournaments.
>
> Think this young man is something special.
>
Indeed he is. As is Ricki Fowler and a small handful of others. The new
crop of players are indeed impressive to watch. Not sure whether to expect
them to equal what Tiger did as he came up through, but I think they face
more competition from within their own age ranks than previous generations
of Champions did as they came up through. There's a lot of very good young
golfers playing against each other right now.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Swingman wrote:
>
> Turned it on about the 15th hole and sat, mesmerized, until the end.
> Not a sports fan, but Golf seems to be about the only one left that
> actually highlights individual effort without being saturated with
> some form of corruption.
I thought only golfers could tolerate watching golf on TV. After all, it is
somewhat like watching paint dry (and only Leon could enjoy that...). I do
enjoy it because I pretend to play the game, so I tell people I am a
golfer - of sorts... Karl - you are the last person in the world I would
ever have suspected of sitting down to watch a rousing round of golf on a
Sunday afternoon...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> On 8/11/2014 9:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Turned it on about the 15th hole and sat, mesmerized, until the end.
>>> Not a sports fan, but Golf seems to be about the only one left that
>>> actually highlights individual effort without being saturated with
>>> some form of corruption.
>>
>> I thought only golfers could tolerate watching golf on TV. After
>> all, it is somewhat like watching paint dry (and only Leon could
>> enjoy that...). I do enjoy it because I pretend to play the game,
>> so I tell people I am a golfer - of sorts... Karl - you are the last
>> person in the world I
>> would ever have suspected of sitting down to watch a rousing round
>> of golf on a Sunday afternoon...
>>
>
>
> Reread what he wrote Mike, he did not watch a round of golf, only 4
> holes. LOL
yeahbut... for a non-golfer, I expect that seemed like a full round...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
> It certainly is a different game being played today.
>
Indeed it has!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> Physical conditioning has a lot to do with it but go to your local pro
> shop and take a look at the woods. The woods/driver heads are mostly
> a light weight alloy that more resembles the size of a large grape
> fruit than an apple. By comparison the ball appears to be about 1/3
> the width of the face of the club.
>
> If I were to start playing again I might be embarrassed to drag out my
> small Titlist Driver. ;~)
>
Hold off on that embarassement Leon. It appears that the latest move is
going back towards smaller driver heads. You might just have the latest and
greatest in your arsenal even as we speak...
>
> I quit playing the first time in the early 70's and took it back up in
> the mid to later 80's. I was amazed at the smorgasbord of brands of
> clubs and the multi colored balls. Ping was relatively new.
>
Yup - prior to the early/mid 80's they were just a putter company. But
then...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Swingman wrote:
> On 8/11/2014 8:29 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>> Always thought the basic reason you play golf is to get some
>> exercise.
>
> Not for today's pussified male, still playing virtual GI Joe at 35.
>
> Like the Lance Armstrong wannabes, all decked out for the Tour de
> Sidewalk, in that little instant gratification mind all that is needed
> to stoke that fragile self esteem to imaginary magnificence is to look
> the part.
>
> Can't do that while sweating on the tweeds.
Don't agree with that assessment at all. As a guy that plays golf, the golf
cart was introduced to speed up the game. The exercise still comes from the
swing. You can find way too many hand cart players out there today who mope
around the course feeling like they are doing something more worth the
exercise, or more noble than the guys in the cart. As they analyze every
shot for 10 minutes. All they do is hold up the game on the course. If
they really wanted the exercise, they'd carry their clubs - 14 of them, in
their bag. You don't see a lot of that anywhere. I completely disagree
that the use of golf carts represents the pussification of the male, and I'd
suggest that anyone who says that probably does not regularly play golf.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> On 8/12/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>> Don't agree with that assessment at all. As a guy that plays golf,
>> the golf cart was introduced to speed up the game. The exercise
>> still comes from the swing.
>
> ROTHFMAO! Your killing me.... Stop it.
Well - rumor has it that is exactly why the cart was introduced.
>
>
>
> You can find way too many hand cart players out there today who mope
>> around the course feeling like they are doing something more worth
>> the exercise, or more noble than the guys in the cart. As they
>> analyze every shot for 10 minutes.
>
> I found that to be true of those riding the carts. When walking you
> get a feel for wind direction and ground conditions AND 3~7 minutes
> of time to think about your shot as you approach.
>
I don't disagree with that, it's more a case of experiences.
>
> All they do is hold up the game on the course. If
>> they really wanted the exercise, they'd carry their clubs - 14 of
>> them, in their bag. You don't see a lot of that anywhere. I
>> completely disagree that the use of golf carts represents the
>> pussification of the male, and I'd suggest that anyone who says that
>> probably does not regularly play golf.
>
> I am going to have to agree with Karl, and while I have not played
> golf in probably 20 years, I started when I was 14, at age 15 I
> started playing 5 days a week. Age 18 I took a 14 year break and
> began playing weekly after that.
I still don't see where that equates to the pussification of the male.
Anyone who thinks walkers burn more calories than those who use a cart has
never seen how many strokes a player like me can take - even with a cart!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 2014-08-13, Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>> On 8/12/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Don't agree with that assessment at all. As a guy that plays golf,
>>> the golf cart was introduced to speed up the game. The exercise
>>> still comes from the swing.
>>
>> ROTHFMAO! Your killing me.... Stop it.
>
> Well - rumor has it that is exactly why the cart was introduced.
Then why do me and my frieds (who all walk) always spend so much time
waiting for cart golfers who can't seem to keep up?
--
Grant Edwards grant.b.edwards Yow! does your DRESSING
at ROOM have enough ASPARAGUS?
gmail.com
Grant Edwards wrote:
> On 2014-08-13, Mike Marlow <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>>> On 8/12/2014 10:24 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't agree with that assessment at all. As a guy that plays golf,
>>>> the golf cart was introduced to speed up the game. The exercise
>>>> still comes from the swing.
>>>
>>> ROTHFMAO! Your killing me.... Stop it.
>>
>> Well - rumor has it that is exactly why the cart was introduced.
>
> Then why do me and my frieds (who all walk) always spend so much time
> waiting for cart golfers who can't seem to keep up?
Probably for the same reason that we always have to wait on the 2 some or 4
some ahead of us that are walking. I have to say that I don't think I've
ever had to let a walking 4 some or 2 some play through. I don't think your
experience is at all typical. Maybe you're just very good golfers. You'd
then probably experience the same thing regardless of cart vs. walking.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> Because the carts will go out into the rough and way our of bounds to
> retrieve their balls.
really? Please Leon - this is a golfer thing - not a cart vs walking thing.
I see just as many walkers doing this very same thing as I do cart players.
> I have seen guys in carts spend 5 minutes
> driving around in the tall grass looking for a ball.
Yup - I do not deny that. But - I see every bit as many walkers doing the
same thing. That's just wrong no matter what means of movement.
> The walker
> typically will walk straight to where his ball went.
The walker who wants to present his style of play may say that, but if you
had been out on a course in the past 10 years you would know that is not
true - not at all. They move slowly because they feel they have some
fundamental right to do so, and they then display the same inconsiderations
as the cart players do when it comes to finding their ball or going to ball
placement. I fully disagree with what you say above. Maybe you need to
play more and remember less - people and times have changed.
Unfortunately...
> When you have 2
> players in a cart the driver typically goes straight towards one or
> the other ball. They loose track of where the other ball went.
Really? Have you played since those old days Leon?
> Walkers split up and go straight towards his or her ball. In a cart
> you go to one ball and then the other. No time is really saved.
Really (again) - have you really played in the past 10 years Leon? Golf
etiquette used to be one thing but it has failed miserably over the years.
The things you remember from way back when are not the same today. Well -
not all of them, anyway.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Swingman wrote:
> On 8/13/2014 8:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>> I still don't see where that equates to the pussification of the
>> male.
>
> Sure you can go outside and play, but first:
>
> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff?noredirect=1#6047047956805031170
Yeahsowhat? You're criticizing that?...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> The pro's don't walk just because of the rules.
>
>
Really? Better do like I had to do after Karl's post and look it up on the
net.
>
> Now you are just being belligerent.
Belligerent? Hell, with my handicap, I can't be belligerent...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> Think this way Mike, IME the better golfers do walk.
Well - I've played the local courses, I've played Oak Hill in Rochester at
least 3 dozen times (PGA course), I've playe other PGA courses like at
Turning Stone - I've never seen "better" players walking. I have to take
strenuous objection to that assertion. In fact - in my own limited
experience, it's only on the smaller courses that I see people walking. The
better players are very much in carts. By that I'm talking about
near-scratch players. Sorry Leon - but I have to call you on that one. You
might need to get back out on the course to see what's really going on these
days. It's changed since the days you played.
> When you ride
> in a cart it is not real important to hit the ball down the fairway.
Really? That presumes that score does not count. Sorry Leon - but that
sounds like a purist's argument. Let's face it - it always matters where
you hit the ball - it's not about travel to the ball, it's about score.
> When you walk 3~5 miles you pay a little more attention to your
> surroundings, course conditions, and try not chase the ball all over
> the course.
Well - we all do that in the interest in score - regardless of how we get
around the course.
> When riding in a cart there is no physical penalty for
> hitting your ball off into the sticks.
Perhaps, but there remains the stroke penalty. You're suggesting that the
walk is somehow a bigger penalty - I do not buy that.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> On 8/13/2014 10:50 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Leon wrote:
>
> So basically, the carts are not speeding up play, which was my point.
>
Nope - disagree. The whole thought behind speeding the play was all about
getting the player to the ball quicker than walking. Everything after that
is just golf etiquette. But - they do get the player to the ball faster.
>>
>>> The walker
>>> typically will walk straight to where his ball went.
>>
>> The walker who wants to present his style of play may say that, but
>> if you had been out on a course in the past 10 years you would know
>> that is not true - not at all.
>
> Yeah, time does not change the thinking unless the courses are
> littered with hacks.
>
Leon - you really need to get back on the course and take an honest and
objective look at play.
>
> They move slowly because they feel they have some
>> fundamental right to do so, and they then display the same
>> inconsiderations as the cart players do when it comes to finding
>> their ball or going to ball placement.
>
> Ball placement, all too often, assuming there is not a regulation
> that allows relocation of the ball the ball should be hit where it
> lies. And today's golfers may be may be confused as to how golf
> should be played. I was a little bit of a bogie golfer, legitimate
> bogie golfer. I did not hit mulligans, did not move my ball to a
> better lie, did not clam gimme's on th4e green.
This is exactly how I play, and I am a 90's golfer - not all that great.
> I counted every
> stroke and penalty stroke.
As do I. I maintain that it does not help my game to take "shortcuts".
> I often found it interesting that when I
> played with some one new and I indicated how I played and they
> indicated that they some times played par in a round that I almost
> always easily beat them. I counted their strokes and their
> penalties. I guarantee you that if you start walking the course your
> game will get better.
>
So this is where our experiences differ but our philosophies agree. It's
not at all about walking the course or riding the course. It's all about
your personal standards. You and I shoot to the same ethical standards.
Don't matter a bit if we do that from our flat feet or from a cart.
>>
>>> When you have 2
>>> players in a cart the driver typically goes straight towards one or
>>> the other ball. They loose track of where the other ball went.
>>
>> Really? Have you played since those old days Leon?
>
> How has that changed???
Just to point out that this is not how players experience the game. Believe
it or not we really can keep track of 2 balls with the same accuracy as
those who walk the course.
>
>>
>>> Walkers split up and go straight towards his or her ball. In a cart
>>> you go to one ball and then the other. No time is really saved.
>>
>> Really (again) - have you really played in the past 10 years Leon? Golf
>> etiquette used to be one thing but it has failed miserably over
>> the years. The things you remember from way back when are not the
>> same today. Well - not all of them, anyway.
>>
> So the walkers don't walk to where they think they hit their balls?
Been on the course lately?
>
> Regardless it seems you have witnessed that the carts don't really
> speed up play.
Huh? I never made any such statement. I said that was the reason for the
introduction of carts and that seemed to have caused a stir. From that
point I've only suggested that the proposed advantages in walking were not
as they were suggested to be. Then I attempted to debunk some stuff about
cart players vs walkers
>
> Maybe it is a Yankee thang. ;~0 D,&,R
Alas - I am totally defensless in the face of that one...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Swingman wrote:
> On 8/13/2014 10:51 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Yeahsowhat? You're criticizing that?...
>
> Damned right ... there is a reason that is a _woman_ with the bubble
> wrap in that photo. The total lack of a father figure in approximately
> 30% of the households is the highest, along with the divorce rate, it
> has ever been in this culture.
>
Holy Cow - never even noticed that. Geeze...
> http://www.fatherhood.org/father-absence-statistics
>
> On a secondary, but arguably parallel issue, wonder why the suicide
> rate of combat veterans in the past decade, to almost 22 a day, is so
> much higher than in any conflict by American troops in the past?
>
> http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/02/17148761-why-modern-soldiers-are-more-susceptible-to-suicide
Ugh! now you're introducing another aspect of life that I haven't even
wrapped my head around. Geeze - thanks Karl...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>
> I think you are missing my original point, it seems we have drifted
> off a bit. I still maintain that as a whole the better golfers will
> be the walkers in the grand scheme. Walking naturally is better for
> you physically. But for the interest of going with good golfers
> riding, I wonder how they would hold up against an equal player that
> walks if both walked. I suspect the one that rides all of the time
> would run out of steam, and that will affect judgement and his play.
> Lets put the scratch golfers as a group up against the pro golfers
> that walk. I bet their score differences will broaden.
>
>
That might be true but there are too many variables to make a quick
comparison. Pros have caddies that do all of the heavy lifting for them,
they have marshalls that spot their balls for them - lots of differences. I
just do not believe we can compare the pros to the casual golfer in any
respect.
>>
>>
>>> When you ride
>>> in a cart it is not real important to hit the ball down the fairway.
>>
>> Really? That presumes that score does not count. Sorry Leon - but
>> that sounds like a purist's argument. Let's face it - it always
>> matters where you hit the ball - it's not about travel to the ball,
>> it's about score.
>
> The honest score does not count, even when I played. I played in
> numerous, countless tournaments when I was young. Every thing was
> legit and all penalties and strokes were counted. 20 years ago most
> of the people I played did a lot of fudging.
Ok - to stop there - that is a complete contradiction. Honest and fudging
do not fit in the same description.
> Oh, my ball would have
> a better lie if it rolled it over a few inches. Oh my T-shot went
> out of bounds, MULLIGAN! Oh I'm with in 18" of the cup, I'll just
> pick it up and maybe forget to count that as a stroke too.
See above. Still - has nothing to do with walking vs a cart.
>
> Easy to say Mike, start walking and see of you have the same
> perspective.
I have walked - a lot before I got more serious about my golf. I just don't
see that purist difference that you do.
> It is tough to judge the wind when you ride in the cart
Fully disagree. It's not like you are propelled out of the cart to make a
shot before you can even feel the wind. That's just not true Leon.
> and the wind is always in your face.
...until you get out of the cart...
>>> When riding in a cart there is no physical penalty for
>>> hitting your ball off into the sticks.
>>
>> Perhaps, but there remains the stroke penalty. You're suggesting
>> that the walk is somehow a bigger penalty - I do not buy that.
>
> Let me explain, You are carrying a 30lb bag for 3~5 miles if you par
> the course. If you shoot in the 90's or higher you are going to
> probably carry that bag 10~15% further and lake longer to do so. I
> would call that a physical penalty. Either way carries the same
> stroke penalty. When walking you do put more thinking and effort to
> shorten the amount of steps and to keep from walking through the
> brush.
That's a point that I disagree with. I submit that regardless of the
walking effort, the play plays the course. Every shot is about getting to
the hole and little or no thought is about the walk or the ride to the next
lie. That's where I believe the purist argument comes into play. I've
never once ever heard a cart player suggest that the lie did not matter
because he could get to it in a cart...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
>> That might be true but there are too many variables to make a quick
>> comparison. Pros have caddies that do all of the heavy lifting for
>> them, they have marshalls that spot their balls for them - lots of
>> differences. I just do not believe we can compare the pros to the
>> casual golfer in any respect.
>
> I don't think many "scratch" golfers, that you referred to, are casual
> golfers.
>
Well - you are mixing comments that I have made, but in fact there are a
large number of guys in my league that are below 14 hanidcap for 18.
Certainly not scratch but much better than most. Some are scratch players
who have tried out for the pro tournements that have come around here,. Are
they casual? Well I guess that depnds upon our definition of casual. They
have day jobs and golf is an after hours event for them.
> Not so much a purist view as an actual experience view. I rode in
> carts too, they were fun, but my game got much better when I had got
> serious about improving and as a result shortening my walk.
Can't argue with that. Each of us experience different needs in improving
our games. Could be swing issues, relaxation issues, or a lot of other
things. Can't though, reduce it all to what we experienced in our own game.
It's different for differnt people.
>
> It may not be windy in that spot, behind the trees, at all.
And it does not matter that much if you walked up to the ball or drove up to
it. You can still feel the wind. If the wind is not prevelent when you go
to hit the ball, it does not matter what you felt as you were 100 yards away
from the ball.
>> That's a point that I disagree with. I submit that regardless of the
>> walking effort, the play plays the course. Every shot is about
>> getting to the hole and little or no thought is about the walk or
>> the ride to the next lie. That's where I believe the purist
>> argument comes into play. I've never once ever heard a cart player
>> suggest that the lie did not matter because he could get to it in a
>> cart...
>
> The cart rider dies not care where he has to go or how far to get to
> his ball, the walker does. I really did not see many cart golfers
> put as much thinking into their game as the walkers.
I totally disagree and this is the only real point upon which I disagree.
Like I said - when was the last time you were on a course and honestly
looked at the players. On this particular point I think you are simply
dreaming.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Leon wrote:
> On 8/13/2014 11:48 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> Swingman wrote:
>>> On 8/13/2014 10:51 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>> Yeahsowhat? You're criticizing that?...
>>>
>>> Damned right ... there is a reason that is a _woman_ with the bubble
>>> wrap in that photo. The total lack of a father figure in
>>> approximately 30% of the households is the highest, along with the
>>> divorce rate, it has ever been in this culture.
>>>
>>
>> Holy Cow - never even noticed that. Geeze...
>
> Pretty good KoolAid huh? LOL
>
>
I guess!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 8/13/2014 8:56 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> The pro's don't walk just because of the rules.
>>
>>
>
> Really? Better do like I had to do after Karl's post and look it up on the
> net.
>
>
>>
>> Now you are just being belligerent.
>
> Belligerent? Hell, with my handicap, I can't be belligerent...
>
test
>>> I am going to have to agree with Karl, and while I have not played
>>> golf in probably 20 years, I started when I was 14, at age 15 I
>>> started playing 5 days a week. Age 18 I took a 14 year break and
>>> began playing weekly after that.
In my life, I play golf religiously, once every ten years. I'm seven
years out from my next bout, and am using the money I save to go fishing
or buying good pool cues. So far, I am light years ahead in the amount
of time I get to recreate, and own some nice sticks.
Fergive the test. I have been getting a banlist message, and didn't on
that message, so figured it must be working again. So, if you see this,
you understand what the "TEST" meant. If you don't see this, you will
probably will figure it our.
Or not.
Steve
On 8/13/2014 11:16 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>>
>> Think this way Mike, IME the better golfers do walk.
>
> Well - I've played the local courses, I've played Oak Hill in Rochester at
> least 3 dozen times (PGA course), I've playe other PGA courses like at
> Turning Stone - I've never seen "better" players walking. I have to take
> strenuous objection to that assertion. In fact - in my own limited
> experience, it's only on the smaller courses that I see people walking. The
> better players are very much in carts. By that I'm talking about
> near-scratch players. Sorry Leon - but I have to call you on that one. You
> might need to get back out on the course to see what's really going on these
> days. It's changed since the days you played.
I think you are missing my original point, it seems we have drifted off
a bit. I still maintain that as a whole the better golfers will be the
walkers in the grand scheme. Walking naturally is better for you
physically. But for the interest of going with good golfers riding, I
wonder how they would hold up against an equal player that walks if both
walked. I suspect the one that rides all of the time would run out of
steam, and that will affect judgement and his play.
Lets put the scratch golfers as a group up against the pro golfers that
walk. I bet their score differences will broaden.
>
>
>> When you ride
>> in a cart it is not real important to hit the ball down the fairway.
>
> Really? That presumes that score does not count. Sorry Leon - but that
> sounds like a purist's argument. Let's face it - it always matters where
> you hit the ball - it's not about travel to the ball, it's about score.
The honest score does not count, even when I played. I played in
numerous, countless tournaments when I was young. Every thing was legit
and all penalties and strokes were counted. 20 years ago most of the
people I played did a lot of fudging. Oh, my ball would have a better
lie if it rolled it over a few inches. Oh my T-shot went out of bounds,
MULLIGAN! Oh I'm with in 18" of the cup, I'll just pick it up and maybe
forget to count that as a stroke too.
>
>
>> When you walk 3~5 miles you pay a little more attention to your
>> surroundings, course conditions, and try not chase the ball all over
>> the course.
>
> Well - we all do that in the interest in score - regardless of how we get
> around the course.
Easy to say Mike, start walking and see of you have the same
perspective. It is tough to judge the wind when you ride in the cart
and the wind is always in your face. While it may not be windy where
your ball lies it may be just before that location and probably after.
>
>> When riding in a cart there is no physical penalty for
>> hitting your ball off into the sticks.
>
> Perhaps, but there remains the stroke penalty. You're suggesting that the
> walk is somehow a bigger penalty - I do not buy that.
Let me explain, You are carrying a 30lb bag for 3~5 miles if you par
the course. If you shoot in the 90's or higher you are going to
probably carry that bag 10~15% further and lake longer to do so. I
would call that a physical penalty. Either way carries the same stroke
penalty. When walking you do put more thinking and effort to shorten
the amount of steps and to keep from walking through the brush.
On 8/13/2014 8:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I still don't see where that equates to the pussification of the male.
Sure you can go outside and play, but first:
https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff?noredirect=1#6047047956805031170
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 8/11/2014 9:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I thought only golfers could tolerate watching golf on TV. After all, it is
> somewhat like watching paint dry (and only Leon could enjoy that...). I do
> enjoy it because I pretend to play the game, so I tell people I am a
> golfer - of sorts... Karl - you are the last person in the world I would
> ever have suspected of sitting down to watch a rousing round of golf on a
> Sunday afternoon...
Played the game socially in my younger years, and still enjoy going to a
driving range, but it has never been high on my list of pastimes.
Besides, waiting on dinner, and it smelled good from where I sat in
front of the TV ... Linda cooked pork chops, which other than boiling
water, is her highest kitchen accomplishment.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 8/13/2014 10:51 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>> On 8/13/2014 8:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>> I still don't see where that equates to the pussification of the
>>> male.
>>
>> Sure you can go outside and play, but first:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/111355467778981859077/EWoodShopJustStuff?noredirect=1#6047047956805031170
>
> Yeahsowhat? You're criticizing that?...
Damned right ... there is a reason that is a _woman_ with the bubble
wrap in that photo. The total lack of a father figure in approximately
30% of the households is the highest, along with the divorce rate, it
has ever been in this culture.
http://www.fatherhood.org/father-absence-statistics
On a secondary, but arguably parallel issue, wonder why the suicide rate
of combat veterans in the past decade, to almost 22 a day, is so much
higher than in any conflict by American troops in the past?
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/03/02/17148761-why-modern-soldiers-are-more-susceptible-to-suicide
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 8/11/2014 8:55 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 8/10/2014 8:26 PM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> Every endeavor has it's masters.
>>
>> Today it was golf's turn to shine.
>>
>> The PGA championship was played this week end.
>>
>> The top players in the world competed and put on
>> a clinic how the game should be played.
>>
>> Some of the shots made were marvels to observe.
>>
>> In the end, Rory McIlroy, a 25 year old Irishman,
>> from Northern Ireland, won as darkness closed in on Valhalla,
>> a course located near Louisville, KY.
>>
>> Last week McIlroy won on the "Monster", the south coarse
>> at Firestone, near Akron where Arnie, Jack, Gary. and the
>> Merry Mex, Lee Trivono competed during the 1960s.
>>
>> Two weeks ago, McIlroy won the British Open.
>>
>> IOW, he has won three (3) weeks in a row.
>>
>> Think we are looking at a phenomenon here.
>>
>> Many players play their entire career and don't win three (3)
>> tournaments.
>>
>> Think this young man is something special.
>
> Turned it on about the 15th hole and sat, mesmerized, until the end. Not
> a sports fan, but Golf seems to be about the only one left that actually
> highlights individual effort without being saturated with some form of
> corruption.
>
Team sports seem to attract corruption. Individuals going for a low
score to win rules most types of corruption.
On 8/11/2014 9:10 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Swingman wrote:
>
>>
>> Turned it on about the 15th hole and sat, mesmerized, until the end.
>> Not a sports fan, but Golf seems to be about the only one left that
>> actually highlights individual effort without being saturated with
>> some form of corruption.
>
> I thought only golfers could tolerate watching golf on TV. After all, it is
> somewhat like watching paint dry (and only Leon could enjoy that...). I do
> enjoy it because I pretend to play the game, so I tell people I am a
> golfer - of sorts... Karl - you are the last person in the world I would
> ever have suspected of sitting down to watch a rousing round of golf on a
> Sunday afternoon...
>
Reread what he wrote Mike, he did not watch a round of golf, only 4
holes. LOL