I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
February).
"Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
"This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
service said.
February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
Records date back to 1902."
These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
element than something I really need to care about.
And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 4/28/2015 7:49 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
>> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up
>> more from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to
>> fix something that takes care of itself. ;~)
>
> As I live in the pointy end of Florida, I've had reason to
> study up on hurricanes. The short answer to your question is,
> no-one knows what the effect of a warmer climate would be on
> hurricanes.
>
> In general, warmer water leads to more and stronger hurricanes.
> 2005, the year of Katrina, Wilma, and too many hurricanes to
> name (*) was marked by unusually warm water in the Atlantic
> and Gulf. But there have been years since then with unusually
> warm waters, and fewer than usual hurricanes.
>
> The strength of a hurricane is also dependant on the warmth
> of the waters it passes over. A warmer climate should lead
> to stronger hurricanes, but a warmer climate also leads to
> stronger trade winds (as is seen with the El Nino weather
> pattern), which suppresses and weakens hurricanes.
>
> Hurricanes are very sensistive to winds blowing at different
> speeds at different altitudes (what they call "wind shear").
> A warmer climate may increase the strength of upper level
> winds, which would tend to prevent hurricanes forming.
>
> The factors which determine a hurricane's path, especially
> when it's forming, aren't all that well understood. A
> warming climate might change the pattern of high pressure
> over the Atlantic, encouraging hurricanes to head north
> over the Atlantic (or into New England) rather than west
> into the Carribean or Florida.
>
> In other words, too many interrelated things going on to
> really predict what climate change might do.
>
> John
>
> (* literally too many - the Hurricane Center ran out of
> letters of the alphabet, and named the last few using
> Greek letters)
>
Ain't cut'n'past grand?
I am of the form belief that the biggest reason that there are more
named storms is simply because of the technology.
1. Back before the 60's, before powerful computers and satellite
imagery, we simply did not have the capabilities to spot every storm
that came off of the African coast and or many of those that developed
between here and there. So I am sure we missed countless storms.
Now we see most all of them and count every one of them whether they
become a hurricane or not.
2. The weather service has spent a fortune on new equipment and
technology. They "have" to justify that expense and will report any
blip on the screen as a potential hurricane.
3. I think in general there is more data available that no one has
determined as to it's actual relevance. Yes there has been a rapid warm
up in the norther hemisphere. The calendar says it is summer. The
local reporter is standing in the rain at the curb of the street in
boots just short of waders. The water is about 2 inches deep and
flowing towards the drain and this is described as treacherous.
On 4/29/2015 8:21 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 4/28/2015 7:25 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 14:15:08 -0500, Leon wrote:
>>
>>> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
>>> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up more
>>> from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to fix
>>> something that takes care of itself. ;~)
>>
>> Lots of things are "said". How about a reference to a climate expert?
>>
> ----
> Wasting resources on symbolically fighting ever present climate change
> is no substitute for prudence. Nor is the assumption that the earthâs
> climate reached a point of perfection in the middle of the twentieth
> century a sign of intelligence.
>
> Richard Lindzen - atmospheric physicist
> ----
>
> Just the fact that the alarmists went from global cooling, to global
> warming, and now to climate change in just the last 50 years makes it
> obvious they have no clue what they are talking about.
>
> Jack - expert on bogus religious zealots and the socialist pukes taking
> advantage of their misguided convictions...
follow the money... ;~)
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 9:42:16 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 4/28/2015 7:49 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> > Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> > news:[email protected]:
> >
> >> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
> >> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up
> >> more from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to
> >> fix something that takes care of itself. ;~)
> >
> > As I live in the pointy end of Florida, I've had reason to
> > study up on hurricanes. The short answer to your question is,
> > no-one knows what the effect of a warmer climate would be on
> > hurricanes.
> >
> > In general, warmer water leads to more and stronger hurricanes.
> > 2005, the year of Katrina, Wilma, and too many hurricanes to
> > name (*) was marked by unusually warm water in the Atlantic
> > and Gulf. But there have been years since then with unusually
> > warm waters, and fewer than usual hurricanes.
> >
> > The strength of a hurricane is also dependant on the warmth
> > of the waters it passes over. A warmer climate should lead
> > to stronger hurricanes, but a warmer climate also leads to
> > stronger trade winds (as is seen with the El Nino weather
> > pattern), which suppresses and weakens hurricanes.
> >
> > Hurricanes are very sensistive to winds blowing at different
> > speeds at different altitudes (what they call "wind shear").
> > A warmer climate may increase the strength of upper level
> > winds, which would tend to prevent hurricanes forming.
> >
> > The factors which determine a hurricane's path, especially
> > when it's forming, aren't all that well understood. A
> > warming climate might change the pattern of high pressure
> > over the Atlantic, encouraging hurricanes to head north
> > over the Atlantic (or into New England) rather than west
> > into the Carribean or Florida.
> >
> > In other words, too many interrelated things going on to
> > really predict what climate change might do.
> >
> > John
> >
> > (* literally too many - the Hurricane Center ran out of
> > letters of the alphabet, and named the last few using
> > Greek letters)
> >
>
> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
>
> I am of the form belief that the biggest reason that there are more
> named storms is simply because of the technology.
>
> 1. Back before the 60's, before powerful computers and satellite
> imagery, we simply did not have the capabilities to spot every storm
> that came off of the African coast and or many of those that developed
> between here and there. So I am sure we missed countless storms.
>
> Now we see most all of them and count every one of them whether they
> become a hurricane or not.
>
> 2. The weather service has spent a fortune on new equipment and
> technology. They "have" to justify that expense and will report any
> blip on the screen as a potential hurricane.
>
> 3. I think in general there is more data available that no one has
> determined as to it's actual relevance. Yes there has been a rapid warm
> up in the norther hemisphere. The calendar says it is summer. The
> local reporter is standing in the rain at the curb of the street in
> boots just short of waders. The water is about 2 inches deep and
> flowing towards the drain and this is described as treacherous.
2 inches of water is described as treacherous?
Let's see that local reporter do what this guy does at about 0:30.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue2gcyT4fc4
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:57:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/24/2015 7:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:44:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>>>>
>>>> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the Northeast
>>>> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
>>>> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the Northeast
>>>> this month" warming.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been "Normal
>>> Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was warmer
>>> in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
>>> again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was unusual
>>> to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
>>> pretty often in the past 10 years.
>>>
>>> I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
>>> process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a real
>>> sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
>>> information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything out of
>>> the ordinary today.
>>
>> The evidence says that it's another way of increasing taxes.
>>
>Exactly, follow the money.
Yes indeed! I'm very suspicious about anything the government
promotes. They lie about everything, every time!
In article <[email protected]>, Mike Marlow
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
> February).
You're not alone, Mike...
<http://youtu.be/gmiuhGwwbgk>
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Having lived in Vermont for almost 15 years, I can say with reasonable
> confidence that you do *not* want be sweating while shoveling snow, or
> anything else when it's well below zero. There is a reason one
> dresses in layers and it's not because layers are somehow warmer.
+1
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> If they are going out in
> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
> that anyone is going to perspire.
Leon, it's easy to perspire in extreme cold, simply by working too hard.
I've hunted deer and elk at -30C with -45 wind chill, and when you're
plowing through snow drifts and brush, overheating and starting to
sweat is a very real concern.
I worry more about being too warm in extreme than I do about freezing.
A lot more.
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
In article <[email protected]>, Leon
<lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> On 2/26/2015 10:37 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> > In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> > <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
> >
> >> If they are going out in
> >> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
> >> that anyone is going to perspire.
> >
> > Leon, it's easy to perspire in extreme cold, simply by working too hard.
> >
> > I've hunted deer and elk at -30C with -45 wind chill, and when you're
> > plowing through snow drifts and brush, overheating and starting to
> > sweat is a very real concern.
> >
> > I worry more about being too warm in extreme than I do about freezing.
> > A lot more.
> >
>
> But you are sweating under your protective clothing, NO?
>
> OK, this has gone completely off track.
>
> Wind chill does not lower the temperature. Wind does slightly lower the
> skin surface temperature, if sweaty or wet, if the skin is "not"
> protected by clothing. If the wet skin is protected by clothing,,,,, it
> is protected by the clothing, and not exposed to the wind.
>
> Basically if you are warm enough to be sweating the cold is not going to
> freeze you because you are sweating. You sweat because you are
> overheated. Right?
Come live here for a couple of years and you will understand wind chill
all too well. <grin>
You are correct that it doesn't lower air temperature. It has a very
direct effect on exposed flesh and clothing that is permeable to wind.
The problem with sweating in extreme cold isn't what happens when you
sweat. It's what happens when you STOP that gets you into hypothermia.
Using temperature is deceptive, as you say. Here in Canada a few years
back they tried reporting wind chill as "watts of heat loss per square
meter of exposed flesh" but went back to the temperature equivalent
because people didn't understand the correct number.
And I've had people swear to me that wind chill affects their car or
truck's ability to start in the winter, which is complete BS. But I
have had a car over-cool at highway speed in our winters. We use
cardboard to cover half or more of the radiator to control that. <ggg>
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
On 2/26/2015 10:37 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> If they are going out in
>> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>> that anyone is going to perspire.
>
> Leon, it's easy to perspire in extreme cold, simply by working too hard.
>
> I've hunted deer and elk at -30C with -45 wind chill, and when you're
> plowing through snow drifts and brush, overheating and starting to
> sweat is a very real concern.
>
> I worry more about being too warm in extreme than I do about freezing.
> A lot more.
>
But you are sweating under your protective clothing, NO?
OK, this has gone completely off track.
Wind chill does not lower the temperature. Wind does slightly lower the
skin surface temperature, if sweaty or wet, if the skin is "not"
protected by clothing. If the wet skin is protected by clothing,,,,, it
is protected by the clothing, and not exposed to the wind.
Basically if you are warm enough to be sweating the cold is not going to
freeze you because you are sweating. You sweat because you are
overheated. Right?
On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 2:08:26 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:10:44 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>=20
> >Markem wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I was a 462xx Weapons mechanic (fancy name for bomb loader). The KKK
> >> sign just out of Smithfield on the way to Raleigh, the one outside the
> >> base burned down before I got there. What I remember is the BBQ joint
> >> out the back gate, saw a news piece about it when Clinton was POTUS.
> >
> >Hey - a Muzzle Fucker! I was 316X1-L. Sidewinders, Sparrows, Shrikes,=
=20
> >Mavericks, Falcons. They called us Missile Weanies at the time. It was=
=20
> >good to be in missiles... Air conditioned shops in the summer, heated i=
n=20
> >the winter, never had to work out in the crummy elements. One of my=20
> >roomates in the barracks was a Muzzle Fucker too. Nice guy but you just=
had=20
> >to teach them and the 461's (B-B Stackers) so much about life's finer=20
> >points - like how to use a fork in the chow hall, etc.
> >
> >So - you were still there when the F-4's were there. Awesome, eh? The=
=20
> >meanist, most badass jet fighter ever. I used to love driving by the BU=
FF=20
> >alert area on the way to the shop and watching those SAC guys standing g=
uard=20
> >around the BUFFs. Used to think to myself - what a shitty job they have=
!=20
> >Was glad to be in TAC.
>=20
> Ah yes proof that with enough power anything can fly, the F-4 Phantom.
> When I was leaving they were suppose to be changing to F-16s and
> A-10s. The load shop had a sandwhich and snack setup, we paid for our
> beer bashes and then some, till the flight line snack shop got all
> uppity.
The Coast Guard barracks on Governor's Island NY had vending machines in th=
e lounges (picture a big TV room, with a pool table and some pretty nasty c=
arpets and couches).
The vending machines had 6 offerings:
4 choices of soda and 2 choices of beer, typically PBR and maybe Milwaukee'=
s Best.
At the USCG stations in AK, Olympia was the #1 best seller. It was flown in=
by the pallet on the C-130 supply flights. It was common knowledge that yo=
u never wanted to let an Oly get warm while you were drinking it. The botto=
m of an Oly can was some pretty nasty stuff.
At our weekend bonfires, we would keep the beer near the fire so it wouldn'=
t freeze. Once you opened it, you had to drink it fairly quickly or it woul=
d freeze before you could finish it.
It was that damn wind chill, ya know.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 22:11:19 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/24/2015 4:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
>> up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
>> forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
>> form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>
>Correct about "things". People, OTOH, will feel colder from the
>evaporative affect on the skin. It feels colder than it really is.
"Wind chill" has nothing to do with evaporation, however. There is
very little water on the surface of the skin in the Winter (my dry
skin is evidence ;-). OTOH, any evaporation won't just make it feel
colder it will *make* it colder.
In article <[email protected]>, John McCoy
<[email protected]> wrote:
> But just suspose for a moment that Man is responsible in part
> for climate change, and that the change is, mostly, harmful.
> Would it not be wise to try and understand those causes, and
> implement ways to correct them?
While we're at it let's suppose the people pushing man made warming are
NOT deliberately manipulating the historical data to support their
political and economic goals...
--
Splinters in my Fingers blog: <http://woodenwabbits.blogspot.com>
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:50:11 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:33:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>wrote:
>
>>>When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
>>>up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
>>>forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
>>>form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>>>What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>
>>Specifically, it's the equivalent temperature at which unprotected
>>skin will freeze. Well, PUT ON A COAT! ;-)
>
>As the owner of Hunter Mtn ski resort was quoted as saying one time "You
>don't ski naked" when asked about the good turn outs on the slope despite
>the very low wind chill temperatures...
I have seen some naked skiers, but it was a photo shoot.
On 4/29/2015 12:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:-
> [email protected]:
>
>> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
>
> How now? I typed all that mess letter by letter... :-)
LOL and your style seemed to change too.
>
>> I am of the form belief that the biggest reason that there are more
>> named storms is simply because of the technology.
>>
>> 1. Back before the 60's, before powerful computers and satellite
>> imagery, we simply did not have the capabilities to spot every storm
>> that came off of the African coast and or many of those that developed
>> between here and there. So I am sure we missed countless storms.
>>
>> Now we see most all of them and count every one of them whether they
>> become a hurricane or not.
>>
>> 2. The weather service has spent a fortune on new equipment and
>> technology. They "have" to justify that expense and will report any
>> blip on the screen as a potential hurricane.
>
> I agree with both of these, especially the first (altho, back
> in the days of sailing ships the government collected a lot
> of data on winds at sea, and there's a surprising amount of
> information on hurricanes from the 1880s to the 1920s)
Certainly but I have to wonder how out dated the information was for
useful warnings. By the time that information became available the
weather was nice for cleaning up the destruction. ;~)
>
> And in fairness to the NHC, while they have inflated the
> number of hurricanes, they've also become vastly better at
> predicting where they're going over the last 20 years.
>
> John
>
Yes but unfortunately, especially along the Texas coast, the weather
guys on TV get so exited at the possibility of a cloud becoming a
hurricane they almost piss themselves.
I will never forget, Dr. Neil Frank embellishing the forecast of
hurricane Rita in 2005. This storm came on the heals of Katrina that
hit New Orleans a month earlier. The Houston citizens were already on
edge but this guy should have been brought up on some king of charges.
His embellishment of the forecast absolutely caused countless
unnecessary loss of lives.
I can still see and hear him indicating that Houston was going to be a
direct by Rita. It was a fire and brimstone moment. Houston was going
to receive a direct hit and the results were going to be
catastrophically devastating.
Anyway the storm hit Beaumont and Houston really did not see anything of
the storm. The storm was pretty bad for Beaumont but nothing like what
the Dr. predicted for Houston.
There was a mass exodus from Houston days before the projected hit.
"Millions" of people literally gridlocked all highways leaving Houston
and sat in their cars for 24~48 hours on average. Most all ran out of
gas sitting in line trying to get away from Houston.
It is not a new concept that you run from rising water but shelter in
place from the winds. Many people died of a multitude of reasons,
mostly because of panic, sitting in their cars, and at leas one buss
that caught fire while sitting in gridlock.
Dr. Neil Frank left the local station shortly after and little has been
heard from him since, at least by me. Good riddance.
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 6:17:19 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 4/29/2015 1:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 9:42:16 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> >> On 4/28/2015 7:49 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> >>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> >>> news:[email protected]:
> >>>
> >>>> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
> >>>> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up
> >>>> more from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to
> >>>> fix something that takes care of itself. ;~)
> >>>
> >>> As I live in the pointy end of Florida, I've had reason to
> >>> study up on hurricanes. The short answer to your question is,
> >>> no-one knows what the effect of a warmer climate would be on
> >>> hurricanes.
> >>>
> >>> In general, warmer water leads to more and stronger hurricanes.
> >>> 2005, the year of Katrina, Wilma, and too many hurricanes to
> >>> name (*) was marked by unusually warm water in the Atlantic
> >>> and Gulf. But there have been years since then with unusually
> >>> warm waters, and fewer than usual hurricanes.
> >>>
> >>> The strength of a hurricane is also dependant on the warmth
> >>> of the waters it passes over. A warmer climate should lead
> >>> to stronger hurricanes, but a warmer climate also leads to
> >>> stronger trade winds (as is seen with the El Nino weather
> >>> pattern), which suppresses and weakens hurricanes.
> >>>
> >>> Hurricanes are very sensistive to winds blowing at different
> >>> speeds at different altitudes (what they call "wind shear").
> >>> A warmer climate may increase the strength of upper level
> >>> winds, which would tend to prevent hurricanes forming.
> >>>
> >>> The factors which determine a hurricane's path, especially
> >>> when it's forming, aren't all that well understood. A
> >>> warming climate might change the pattern of high pressure
> >>> over the Atlantic, encouraging hurricanes to head north
> >>> over the Atlantic (or into New England) rather than west
> >>> into the Carribean or Florida.
> >>>
> >>> In other words, too many interrelated things going on to
> >>> really predict what climate change might do.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> (* literally too many - the Hurricane Center ran out of
> >>> letters of the alphabet, and named the last few using
> >>> Greek letters)
> >>>
> >>
> >> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
> >>
> >> I am of the form belief that the biggest reason that there are more
> >> named storms is simply because of the technology.
> >>
> >> 1. Back before the 60's, before powerful computers and satellite
> >> imagery, we simply did not have the capabilities to spot every storm
> >> that came off of the African coast and or many of those that developed
> >> between here and there. So I am sure we missed countless storms.
> >>
> >> Now we see most all of them and count every one of them whether they
> >> become a hurricane or not.
> >>
> >> 2. The weather service has spent a fortune on new equipment and
> >> technology. They "have" to justify that expense and will report any
> >> blip on the screen as a potential hurricane.
> >>
> >> 3. I think in general there is more data available that no one has
> >> determined as to it's actual relevance. Yes there has been a rapid warm
> >> up in the norther hemisphere. The calendar says it is summer. The
> >> local reporter is standing in the rain at the curb of the street in
> >> boots just short of waders. The water is about 2 inches deep and
> >> flowing towards the drain and this is described as treacherous.
> >
> > 2 inches of water is described as treacherous?
> >
> > Let's see that local reporter do what this guy does at about 0:30.
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue2gcyT4fc4
> >
>
> LOL.. SHEEEEEIT
>
That clip includes the 2 of my 3 biggest fears: heights and water. All it needed was a big snarling dog and I probably would have crapped my pants. ;-)
On 2/24/2015 1:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>>
>> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a
>> wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to
>> block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not
>> "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely
>> dangerous.
>>
>
> I disagree - in my opinion it is all media hype. We know that it is cold in
> the winter and that when the wind blows, it's even worse. We really do not
> need the hype of showing even lower temperatures, to know that it's cold out
> there. I grew up long before the age of "wind chill factor". Guess what -
> we knew it was cold out there and we either dressed for it, or took refuge
> in the manners that you describe. We did not need a flunky weatherman to
> tell us the exagerated version of how cold it was. Common sense and all
> that.
>
Common sense isn't as common as it used to be. ;-)
"Bob La Londe" wrote:
>> I'm thinking about going fishing this afternoon. There was a bit
>> of
>> a cold wind came in last night. If I go fishing I might take a
>> jacket, and I might not.
---------------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
>> Folks up here are thinking the same way. Rumor has it that the ice
>> is about 2 feet thick on Lake Ontario and other smaller lakes in
>> the area. I guess that's good for ice fishing...
--------------------------------------------
"Bob La Londe" wrote:
> Yeah, but I would bet those folks will take a jacket.... or a parka.
> LOL.
------------------------------------------------
Western end of Lake Erie is about 30 ft.
Reports indicate the is about 8 ft of ice.
Fishing is good even if temps are below zero.
http://tinyurl.com/onnmzhn
Lew
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the
>>> local on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally
>>> better than February).
--------------------------------------------
Lew Hodgett wrote:
>> It took me a while to get to SoCal.
>>
>> Should be about 74F today.
---------------------------------------------------
"Mike Marlow" wrote:
> Yeahbut your gas prices are causing the creek to rise...
---------------------------------------------
If it's only $5/gal more than the rest of the country, it's worth it,
at least to me.
Lew
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the
> local on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better
> than February).
>
>
>
>
> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month,
> and now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a
> calendar year.
>
> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero,
> which is an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported.
> That number might grow with several below-zero days forecast this
> week, the weather service said.
> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month
> on record and first month in which the temperature never rose above
> freezing.
>
> Records date back to 1902."
>
>
>
> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up
> here where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than
> Syracuse, and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport -
> usually in the neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0
> degrees seems "not so bad today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go
> outside in jeans, a flannel shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know
> how many mornings I woke up to -20F without windchill factor, this
> year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't pay a bit of attention
> to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype element than
> something I really need to care about.
>
> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green
> Christmas... Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep
> hearing about?
>
Some of these low temperatures are ridiculous. My ideal is 20F during
the day and around 10F at night. It's too bad we've wasted all this cold
with 0F at night and a month of 30-40F. If the weather had averaged out,
it'd have been a really nice year.
I love winter, and think in part it's because I have the stuff to deal
with it. My snow blower isn't that great, but I only need it to clear
the ice rink. If it's too cold for a coat, there's always a sweater to
put on under it. (I took that off this morning--too warm. It was 8F and
I was skating.)
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>
> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>
If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
>
> Can't say I really love winter, and for sure - I'm really tired of the
> zero and sub-zero temperatures this year, but having said that, my
> standard outer wear for this kind of weather is a hooded, zip up
> sweatshirt and a windbreaker.(just a standard spring/fall weight
> windbreaker). I'm just getting tired of having to wear it in the
> damned living room...
>
I solved that problem. Those window kits that are nothing more than double
sided tape and shrink plastic really make a big difference.
I need to rent a thermal IR camera for about a month, or buy a cheap
android device to use the FLIR pocket model. I bet there's a lot of low-
hanging fruit that just needs a little help to be seen as an issue.
Puckdropper
--
Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
On 2/24/2015 8:56 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 8:21 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>
>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>> >
>> If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
>> will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
>> ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
>> Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
>> hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
>> water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
>> evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
>
> But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
> don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
> cold wind.
>
But people do perspire, and if perspiring skin is exposed to the wind,
the resulting evaporation will cool the person off. It's an actual
cooling effect, and under the right conditions can cool the skin below
the ambient air temperature.
Markem wrote:
> Ah yes proof that with enough power anything can fly, the F-4
> Phantom.
> When I was leaving they were suppose to be changing to F-16s and
> A-10s. The load shop had a sandwhich and snack setup, we paid for
> our
> beer bashes and then some, till the flight line snack shop got all
> uppity.
-------------------------------------------------------------
SFWIW, my grand daughter's husband is career AF and is/was part
of the flight crew for the A10, that is until last year when the A-10
was
phased out and he had to find another assignment.
Lew
On 2/25/2015 1:42 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 25, 2015 at 2:08:26 PM UTC-5, Markem wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:10:44 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Markem wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I was a 462xx Weapons mechanic (fancy name for bomb loader). The KKK
>>>> sign just out of Smithfield on the way to Raleigh, the one outside the
>>>> base burned down before I got there. What I remember is the BBQ joint
>>>> out the back gate, saw a news piece about it when Clinton was POTUS.
>>>
>>> Hey - a Muzzle Fucker! I was 316X1-L. Sidewinders, Sparrows, Shrikes,
>>> Mavericks, Falcons. They called us Missile Weanies at the time. It was
>>> good to be in missiles... Air conditioned shops in the summer, heated in
>>> the winter, never had to work out in the crummy elements. One of my
>>> roomates in the barracks was a Muzzle Fucker too. Nice guy but you just had
>>> to teach them and the 461's (B-B Stackers) so much about life's finer
>>> points - like how to use a fork in the chow hall, etc.
>>>
>>> So - you were still there when the F-4's were there. Awesome, eh? The
>>> meanist, most badass jet fighter ever. I used to love driving by the BUFF
>>> alert area on the way to the shop and watching those SAC guys standing guard
>>> around the BUFFs. Used to think to myself - what a shitty job they have!
>>> Was glad to be in TAC.
>>
>> Ah yes proof that with enough power anything can fly, the F-4 Phantom.
>> When I was leaving they were suppose to be changing to F-16s and
>> A-10s. The load shop had a sandwhich and snack setup, we paid for our
>> beer bashes and then some, till the flight line snack shop got all
>> uppity.
>
> The Coast Guard barracks on Governor's Island NY had vending machines in the lounges (picture a big TV room, with a pool table and some pretty nasty carpets and couches).
>
> The vending machines had 6 offerings:
>
> 4 choices of soda and 2 choices of beer, typically PBR and maybe Milwaukee's Best.
>
> At the USCG stations in AK, Olympia was the #1 best seller. It was flown in by the pallet on the C-130 supply flights. It was common knowledge that you never wanted to let an Oly get warm while you were drinking it. The bottom of an Oly can was some pretty nasty stuff.
>
> At our weekend bonfires, we would keep the beer near the fire so it wouldn't freeze. Once you opened it, you had to drink it fairly quickly or it would freeze before you could finish it.
>
> It was that damn wind chill, ya know.
>
>
November, 1950. Ist Cavalry Div. North Korea. Miserably cold. Soul
penetratingly cold. Deathly cold.
On 2/26/2015 10:34 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Markem wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 23:02:33 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Markem wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not
>>>> perspire, cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the
>>>> point of soaking your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
>>>
>>> I have to take respectful exception to that comment. I think a lot
>>> of what's being said here is that we all grew up playing out in the
>>> cold and snow - long before the notion of wind chill became popular,
>>> and we survived it just fine. Now - today - wind chill is bantered
>>> about as if it is some plague upon mankind. Look - we all work up a
>>> sweat doing hard work outside in the wintertime - we don't die from
>>> that effort. Too much adoo about nothing...
>>
>> But you had shelter to dry off and warm up, survival in cold weather
>> with out a house to warm up in is about not getting wet at all.
>
> Come on Mark - people still have places to go into and get out of the
> elements. That is no different today than it was when we were coming up.
> The fact is that we would spend hours of a day outside in those temperatures
> and look - we are still here to talk about it today. Your comment suggests
> something different exists today, and I'm going to call Bullshit on that
> thought.
>
> If anything - people today spend less time out in those temperatures and
> wind exposure, simply because they do less, and what they do do is more
> couch/cellphone oriented than what we did as kids. Not to mention that
> today, the precious little ones cannot even walk to a bus stop because
> stupid parents want the bus to stop every 20 feet to pick up the darlings at
> their own mailbox. They are not even experiencing the same degree of
> exposure that we did as kids. It has nothing at all to do with the
> availablitly of a warm house nearby.
>
> Sorry - I cannot agree with your position on this. We are continuing to
> pussify our society and this (IMHO) is just one more example of it.
>
Yep!
"Leon" <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 2/26/2015 12:17 PM, Markem wrote:
>
>>
>> As far as weatherman are concern "It's Entertainment".
>>
>
>
> Exactly! cigar?
I knew this total nerd in high school . When asked what he wanted to do in
life, he said, "I want to be a meteorologist, .... and a politician." My
response was that he picked two professions where he could be a professional
liar. He got really upset with me.
On 03/15/2015 09:23 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
> We are really getting out of the little ice age.
>
> They are finding mines and towns that were under ice in Greenland.
> Vikings lived there.
>
> The Hudson Bay in Canada used to have
> trading ships from England and France come down and exchange goods.
>
> The French fur trappers all traded that way.
>
> The ships that were frozen into the ice when the large 'lake' that
> opened into the arctic ocean froze over. Now with the thaw, the ships
> are being discovered as treasure troves of timely goods.
>
> If it was always frozen, then trading ships for Hudson Bay would never
> have gotten there and Hudson Bay trading company would never have been
> there.
>
> The little ice Storm really hit us in 1888. It was winter for two years
> long - no spring, summer or fall. Froze cattle on their feet. That was
> bad. It is just now backing off from the bad days of back then.
>
> Martin
>
> On 3/15/2015 4:35 PM, Gray_Wolf wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:57:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/24/2015 7:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:44:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the
>>>>>> Northeast
>>>>>> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
>>>>>> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the
>>>>>> Northeast
>>>>>> this month" warming.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been "Normal
>>>>> Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was warmer
>>>>> in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
>>>>> again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was
>>>>> unusual
>>>>> to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
>>>>> pretty often in the past 10 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
>>>>> process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a
>>>>> real
>>>>> sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
>>>>> information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything
>>>>> out of
>>>>> the ordinary today.
>>>>
>>>> The evidence says that it's another way of increasing taxes.
>>>>
>>> Exactly, follow the money.
>>
>> Yes indeed! I'm very suspicious about anything the government
>> promotes. They lie about everything, every time!
>>
>>
>>
...and in another billion years, warming will be so bad that all life on
earth will be extinguished. In 5 billion years, the earth will be
incinerated by the sun. Reducing our carbon footprint won't mean
diddly. In between now and then, climate change will yoyo with or
without humans.
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
On 04/28/2015 12:24 PM, Bill wrote:
> John McCoy wrote:
>> "Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> Which is to say, folks agree the Climate is changing, NOT that those
>>> nasty homo sapiens are causing it. Climate change is a normal part
>>> of the history of the planet.
>> Well, what you say is true. It's possible that Man is a cause
>> of climate change, in part or in total, and it's possible he
>> isn't. It's also possible that climate change may be beneficial
>> in some ways, or it may not.
>
>
> I was overlooking a beautiful lake the other day, and I thought
> to myself, if people could build housing and subdivisions literally on
> top of the lake, it would already be done.
>
Already has been done - a long time ago to present and into the future:
http://www.seattleafloat.com/
>
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
On 04/30/2015 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
> On 4/30/2015 10:16 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:[email protected]:
>>
>>> On 4/29/2015 7:47 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>
>>>> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either.
>>>> Once you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east
>>>> Houston area, it really doesn't look like much of it is
>>>> at risk for deadly flooding.
>>>>
>>> Remember Rita was on the heels of Katrina and Rita was a cat 5 storm
>>> at one time. TV coverage from Katrina was still unfolding. Add to
>>> that Dr. Neil Frank was a respected weather guy up until that episode.
>>> We left, about 30 minutes ahead of the crowd, 2 1/2 days ahead of the
>>> forecast hit.
>>
>> Yeah, I guess all of that plus total unfamiliarity with
>> hurricanes would do it. In South Fla we tend to forget
>> most people have never experienced a hurricane, and don't
>> think about them every year.
>>
>> But realistically, most of Houston is ~45 feet above sea
>> level (according to Wikipedia), storm surge flooding is
>> not an issue. It's 9 feet above sea level where I am,
>> and I don't worry about storm surge (mostly because I'm
>> 12 miles inland, historically storm surge has not gone
>> more than ~3 miles inland around here).
>
>
> Yeah you have a special situation there, hurricanes can come from two
> sides. ;~)
>
> The SE Houston area is very susceptible to storm surge and the whole
> area is subject to flooding during epic rain events. In 2001 we had
> such an event with TS Allison, that one hit us 2 times in 2 weeks.
> Downtown Houston and the underground was flooded for a few weeks. HW 59
> S going into Houston was probably 16' under water for days.
>
>
>
>
>
I think we stayed in a RV park in a town in Texas named after you, Leon
- San Leon, TX ;-)
Also found a neat little watering hole and restaurant - Gilhooleys.
--
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure,the creed of ignorance, and the
gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery"
-Winston Churchill
On 2/24/2015 9:11 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 4:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
>> up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
>> forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
>> form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>
> Correct about "things". People, OTOH, will feel colder from the
> evaporative affect on the skin. It feels colder than it really is.
But feeling colder might not really be colder. I feel cold in my house
when the thermostat is set on 74 when I walk in from the garage that is
95. I certainly no as cold as I think I am.
But seriously, when you hear the forecast and the wind chill is what
ever exciting number the meteorologist pulls out of his hat, who pours
water on themselves to prepare for the outing. And that would only last
until the water was gone or frozen.... and the ice would probable be an
excellent insulation from more extreme actual temperatures.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:39:26 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>> My temperature gauge has been set on "freezing" all Winter. Oh, you
>> mean the truck's? It's very slow to come up to temperature.
>
>So is the 350 in my truck, but man - can that baby do some work!
Mine is a 5L. I don't remember it being that slow to heat last year
but I wasn't on the drugs that a screwing with my metabolism, either.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:44:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>>
>> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the Northeast
>> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
>> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the Northeast
>> this month" warming.
>>
>
>
>Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been "Normal
>Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was warmer
>in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
>again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was unusual
>to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
>pretty often in the past 10 years.
>
>I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
>process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a real
>sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
>information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything out of
>the ordinary today.
The evidence says that it's another way of increasing taxes.
On 2/24/2015 11:54 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
> February).
>
>
>
>
> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
>
> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
> service said.
> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>
> Records date back to 1902."
>
>
>
> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
> element than something I really need to care about.
>
> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>
Global Warming is soooo 1990's
On 4/28/2015 6:25 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 14:15:08 -0500, Leon wrote:
>
>> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
>> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up more
>> from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to fix
>> something that takes care of itself. ;~)
>
> Lots of things are "said". How about a reference to a climate expert?
>
This is a case of putting 2+2 together.... common sense, I have heard it
on the weather channel and or Discovery channel also. But seriously this
makes much more sense than most other claims about the atmosphere.
Hurricanes do become stronger with warmer waters and the depth of the
warm water has to be quite considerable to not cool too rapidly as the
water evaporates. Direct unfiltered sun light works best.
On 4/29/2015 6:38 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/28/2015 2:24 PM, Bill wrote:
>> I was overlooking a beautiful lake the other day, and I thought
>> to myself, if people could build housing and subdivisions literally on
>> top of the lake, it would already be done.
>
> It has.
>
> http://www.tripchinaguide.com/public/upload/photo/aberdeen-floating-village/img_508_d20131008104752.jpg
>
>
> I saw it 50 years ago.
>
I think I saw that on an old James Bond movie.
On 4/29/2015 6:38 AM, Swingman wrote:
> On 4/28/2015 2:24 PM, Bill wrote:
>> I was overlooking a beautiful lake the other day, and I thought
>> to myself, if people could build housing and subdivisions literally on
>> top of the lake, it would already be done.
>
> It has.
>
> http://www.tripchinaguide.com/public/upload/photo/aberdeen-floating-village/img_508_d20131008104752.jpg
>
>
> I saw it 50 years ago.
>
ROTFL ;~)
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 23:56:57 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>> "Wind chill" has nothing to do with evaporation, however. There is
>> very little water on the surface of the skin in the Winter (my dry
>> skin is evidence ;-). OTOH, any evaporation won't just make it feel
>> colder it will *make* it colder.
>
>Only to a point though. Wind chill is commonly reported to be 20 degrees
>colder than ambient this time of year. Evaporation is not going to lower
>temperatures that much when the air is this cold. Cold air does not hold
>moisture like warm air does, so evaporation is not the same factor that it
>can be in warmer air.
Sure, but note that my first sentence above is "'Wind Chill' has
nothing to do with evaporation".
On 2/24/2015 5:50 PM, dpb wrote:
>
> Well, their job is to protect and part of that is information. There
> are a number (I'd guess likely even a majority) who live so insulated
> from routine weather and its adverse consequences they've no clue...
The job of the TV weatherman is to get ratings too. Some go overboard
with the dramatics.
On 3/15/2015 11:53 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 03/15/2015 09:23 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>> We are really getting out of the little ice age.
>>
>> They are finding mines and towns that were under ice in Greenland.
>> Vikings lived there.
>>
>> The Hudson Bay in Canada used to have
>> trading ships from England and France come down and exchange goods.
>>
>> The French fur trappers all traded that way.
>>
>> The ships that were frozen into the ice when the large 'lake' that
>> opened into the arctic ocean froze over. Now with the thaw, the ships
>> are being discovered as treasure troves of timely goods.
>>
>> If it was always frozen, then trading ships for Hudson Bay would never
>> have gotten there and Hudson Bay trading company would never have been
>> there.
>>
>> The little ice Storm really hit us in 1888. It was winter for two years
>> long - no spring, summer or fall. Froze cattle on their feet. That was
>> bad. It is just now backing off from the bad days of back then.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> On 3/15/2015 4:35 PM, Gray_Wolf wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:57:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/24/2015 7:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:44:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the
>>>>>>> Northeast
>>>>>>> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
>>>>>>> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the
>>>>>>> Northeast
>>>>>>> this month" warming.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been
>>>>>> "Normal
>>>>>> Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was
>>>>>> warmer
>>>>>> in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
>>>>>> again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was
>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>> to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
>>>>>> pretty often in the past 10 years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
>>>>>> process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a
>>>>>> real
>>>>>> sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
>>>>>> information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything
>>>>>> out of
>>>>>> the ordinary today.
>>>>>
>>>>> The evidence says that it's another way of increasing taxes.
>>>>>
>>>> Exactly, follow the money.
>>>
>>> Yes indeed! I'm very suspicious about anything the government
>>> promotes. They lie about everything, every time!
>>>
>>>
>>>
> ...and in another billion years, warming will be so bad that all life on
> earth will be extinguished. In 5 billion years, the earth will be
> incinerated by the sun. Reducing our carbon footprint won't mean
> diddly. In between now and then, climate change will yoyo with or
> without humans.
>
>
And the real tragedy in 5 billion years is that Bill Gates will have run
out of money. ;~)
On 4/30/2015 8:39 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 04/30/2015 11:02 AM, Leon wrote:
>> On 4/30/2015 10:16 AM, John McCoy wrote:
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> On 4/29/2015 7:47 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either.
>>>>> Once you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east
>>>>> Houston area, it really doesn't look like much of it is
>>>>> at risk for deadly flooding.
>>>>>
>>>> Remember Rita was on the heels of Katrina and Rita was a cat 5 storm
>>>> at one time. TV coverage from Katrina was still unfolding. Add to
>>>> that Dr. Neil Frank was a respected weather guy up until that episode.
>>>> We left, about 30 minutes ahead of the crowd, 2 1/2 days ahead of the
>>>> forecast hit.
>>>
>>> Yeah, I guess all of that plus total unfamiliarity with
>>> hurricanes would do it. In South Fla we tend to forget
>>> most people have never experienced a hurricane, and don't
>>> think about them every year.
>>>
>>> But realistically, most of Houston is ~45 feet above sea
>>> level (according to Wikipedia), storm surge flooding is
>>> not an issue. It's 9 feet above sea level where I am,
>>> and I don't worry about storm surge (mostly because I'm
>>> 12 miles inland, historically storm surge has not gone
>>> more than ~3 miles inland around here).
>>
>>
>> Yeah you have a special situation there, hurricanes can come from two
>> sides. ;~)
>>
>> The SE Houston area is very susceptible to storm surge and the whole
>> area is subject to flooding during epic rain events. In 2001 we had
>> such an event with TS Allison, that one hit us 2 times in 2 weeks.
>> Downtown Houston and the underground was flooded for a few weeks. HW 59
>> S going into Houston was probably 16' under water for days.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I think we stayed in a RV park in a town in Texas named after you, Leon
> - San Leon, TX ;-)
>
> Also found a neat little watering hole and restaurant - Gilhooleys.
>
>
Yeah, a small peninsula between Houston and Galveston at Galveston Bay.
Many of the businesses there were swept away after Ike in 2008.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 16:25:35 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Mike Marlow" wrote:
>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the
>>>> local on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally
>>>> better than February).
>--------------------------------------------
>Lew Hodgett wrote:
>
>>> It took me a while to get to SoCal.
>>>
>>> Should be about 74F today.
>---------------------------------------------------
>"Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
>> Yeahbut your gas prices are causing the creek to rise...
>---------------------------------------------
>If it's only $5/gal more than the rest of the country, it's worth it,
>at least to me.
If I'm paying $5/gal less than you, it's worth it to me, too.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:06:47 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Markem wrote:
>
>> The coldest I have ever felt, was on the flightline in North Carolina,
>> it was only -10F. But it was snowing, and there was not a cloud in the
>> sky.
>
>Seymore Johson AFB?
Seymour Johnson AFB, home of the 4th Tactical Fighter wing.
Moto, 4th but 1st, which works out to be "fourth to help ya, first to
fuck ya".
Close enough on the spelling, yes Jan 75 through July 78
On 4/29/2015 7:47 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:46ydnQeDBKqbytzInZ2dnUVZ5g-
> [email protected]:
>
>> On 4/29/2015 12:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:-
>>> [email protected]:
>>>
>>>> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
>>>
>>> How now? I typed all that mess letter by letter... :-)
>>
>> LOL and your style seemed to change too.
>
> Probably because half way thru I forgot where I was going
> and started over. I do that a lot.
>
>> Certainly but I have to wonder how out dated the information was for
>> useful warnings. By the time that information became available the
>> weather was nice for cleaning up the destruction. ;~)
>
> Oh, it was useless for warnings, and wasn't intended for
> them. The government of the time was interested in knowing
> what latitude the trade winds were, and how strong, at
> different times of year.
>
> The side effect, tho, is that the tracks of many hurricanes
> in that era can be recreated with reasonable accuracy.
>
>>> And in fairness to the NHC, while they have inflated the
>>> number of hurricanes, they've also become vastly better at
>>> predicting where they're going over the last 20 years.
>>
>> Yes but unfortunately, especially along the Texas coast, the weather
>> guys on TV get so exited at the possibility of a cloud becoming a
>> hurricane they almost piss themselves.
>
> Oh hell yes, the TV weatherfolk are useless. Between working
> themselves up into a frenzy beforehand, and then doing stupid
> things when a storm actually shows...I recall a crew up in WPB
> filming either Frances or Jeanne in 2004 - they were under a
> parking deck on the lee side of an office building, and the
> guy goes "we're going to step out here and see what's happening",
> and as he does a sheet of metal siding blows past his nose at
> about 40mph. "ah, I think we'll stay behind the building for
> a while..."
>
>> at leas one buss
>> that caught fire while sitting in gridlock.
>
> I recall that - it was a bus full of old folk from a nursing
> home, many of whom had oxygen bottles. Needless to say, once
> the fire started there was little hope of stopping it.
>
> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either.
> Once you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east
> Houston area, it really doesn't look like much of it is
> at risk for deadly flooding.
>
> John
>
Remember Rita was on the heels of Katrina and Rita was a cat 5 storm at
one time. TV coverage from Katrina was still unfolding. Add to that Dr.
Neil Frank was a respected weather guy up until that episode. We left,
about 30 minutes ahead of the crowd, 2 1/2 days ahead of the forecast hit.
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 12:55:38 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local=
=20
> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than=20
> February).
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and=
=20
> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar yea=
r.
>=20
> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which i=
s=20
> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number=
=20
> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather=
=20
> service said.
> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on=
=20
> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing=
.
>=20
> Records date back to 1902."
>=20
>=20
>=20
> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here=
=20
> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,=
=20
> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in t=
he=20
> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so ba=
d=20
> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel=
=20
> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -2=
0F=20
> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I do=
n't=20
> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hyp=
e=20
> element than something I really need to care about.
>=20
> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas..=
.=20
> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>=20
re: "I don't pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of =
a media hype element than something I really need to care about."
I guess it all depends on where you are and what you do during extreme wind=
chill events.=20
For the past few days we've been having "extreme wind chill warnings" with =
temps in the minus single digits and wind chills in the -20's to -30's.
There is a huge difference from when I am shoveling my deck in the sheltere=
d back yard vs. shoveling the driveway or walking the dog in the full force=
of the wind. There have been times when I have gone into the backyard just=
to get a reprieve from the wind and "warm up" a little.
Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a wide =
open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to block the wind,=
I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not "media hype". It is n=
ot only very uncomfortable, but extremely dangerous.
http://www.noaa.gov/features/monitoring_0209/coldwinds.html
On 2/26/2015 12:11 PM, Markem wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 10:56:26 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/25/2015 7:33 PM, Markem wrote:
>>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:24:59 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/25/2015 3:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>> On 2/24/2015 8:56 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/24/2015 8:21 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>>>>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
>>>>>>> will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
>>>>>>> ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
>>>>>>> Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
>>>>>>> hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
>>>>>>> water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
>>>>>>> evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
>>>>>> don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
>>>>>> cold wind.
>>>>>>
>>>>> But people do perspire, and if perspiring skin is exposed to the wind,
>>>>> the resulting evaporation will cool the person off. It's an actual
>>>>> cooling effect, and under the right conditions can cool the skin below
>>>>> the ambient air temperature.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeez... ;~) Yes people perspire, but typically only when it is warm
>>>> enough that their bodies need to be cooled. If they are going out in
>>>> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>>>> that anyone is going to perspire. They might if dressed too heavily but
>>>> then where is no wind inside all that clothing, otherwise they would not
>>>> be perspiring.
>>>
>>> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not perspire,
>>> cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the point of soaking
>>> your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
>>>
>>
>> But if you are sweating it will be inside your clothing not while you
>> are butt naked with skin underexposed to the wind.
>>
>> And you are not going to freeze to death even if you were butt naked in
>> 40 degree weather with a wind chill of 28 degrees.
>>
>>
> But you are going to be damn cold. The cops will probably show up and
> take you off to get an orange jump suit.
>
But hardly colder than 40 and then there is that, with the cops. ;~)
On 2/26/2015 11:34 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Markem wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 23:02:33 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Markem wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not
>>>> perspire, cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the
>>>> point of soaking your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
>>>
>>> I have to take respectful exception to that comment. I think a lot
>>> of what's being said here is that we all grew up playing out in the
>>> cold and snow - long before the notion of wind chill became popular,
>>> and we survived it just fine. Now - today - wind chill is bantered
>>> about as if it is some plague upon mankind. Look - we all work up a
>>> sweat doing hard work outside in the wintertime - we don't die from
>>> that effort. Too much adoo about nothing...
>>
>> But you had shelter to dry off and warm up, survival in cold weather
>> with out a house to warm up in is about not getting wet at all.
>
> Come on Mark - people still have places to go into and get out of the
> elements. That is no different today than it was when we were coming up.
> The fact is that we would spend hours of a day outside in those temperatures
> and look - we are still here to talk about it today. Your comment suggests
> something different exists today, and I'm going to call Bullshit on that
> thought.
>
> If anything - people today spend less time out in those temperatures and
> wind exposure, simply because they do less, and what they do do is more
> couch/cellphone oriented than what we did as kids. Not to mention that
> today, the precious little ones cannot even walk to a bus stop because
> stupid parents want the bus to stop every 20 feet to pick up the darlings at
> their own mailbox. They are not even experiencing the same degree of
> exposure that we did as kids. It has nothing at all to do with the
> availablitly of a warm house nearby.
>
> Sorry - I cannot agree with your position on this. We are continuing to
> pussify our society and this (IMHO) is just one more example of it.
>
Atta'boy Mike. ;~)
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:24:59 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/25/2015 3:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>> On 2/24/2015 8:56 PM, Leon wrote:
>>> On 2/24/2015 8:21 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>> On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>>> >
>>>> If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
>>>> will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
>>>> ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
>>>> Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
>>>> hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
>>>> water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
>>>> evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
>>>
>>> But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
>>> don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
>>> cold wind.
>>>
>> But people do perspire, and if perspiring skin is exposed to the wind,
>> the resulting evaporation will cool the person off. It's an actual
>> cooling effect, and under the right conditions can cool the skin below
>> the ambient air temperature.
>>
>
>
>
>Jeez... ;~) Yes people perspire, but typically only when it is warm
>enough that their bodies need to be cooled. If they are going out in
>the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>that anyone is going to perspire. They might if dressed too heavily but
>then where is no wind inside all that clothing, otherwise they would not
>be perspiring.
Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not perspire,
cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the point of soaking
your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
On 4/29/2015 12:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> I agree with both of these, especially the first (altho, back
> in the days of sailing ships the government collected a lot
> of data on winds at sea, and there's a surprising amount of
> information on hurricanes from the 1880s to the 1920s)
On that same note about data. 50+ years ago, navigating the shores of
Australia and New Zealand in a motor vessel, many of our navigation
charts had Cpt James Cook's name on them.
Charted in the late 1700's, it was amazing at how accurate they were.
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:33:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>>When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
>>up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
>>forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
>>form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>>What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>Specifically, it's the equivalent temperature at which unprotected
>skin will freeze. Well, PUT ON A COAT! ;-)
As the owner of Hunter Mtn ski resort was quoted as saying one time "You
don't ski naked" when asked about the good turn outs on the slope despite
the very low wind chill temperatures...
On 4/28/2015 1:59 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> "Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Which is to say, folks agree the Climate is changing, NOT that those
>> nasty homo sapiens are causing it. Climate change is a normal part
>> of the history of the planet.
>
> Well, what you say is true. It's possible that Man is a cause
> of climate change, in part or in total, and it's possible he
> isn't. It's also possible that climate change may be beneficial
> in some ways, or it may not.
>
> But just suspose for a moment that Man is responsible in part
> for climate change, and that the change is, mostly, harmful.
> Would it not be wise to try and understand those causes, and
> implement ways to correct them?
>
> John
>
Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up more
from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to fix
something that takes care of itself. ;~)
On 4/30/2015 10:16 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> But realistically, most of Houston is ~45 feet above sea
> level (according to Wikipedia), storm surge flooding is
> not an issue.
Numbers don't tell the story. Houston is also a port city, and storm
surge flooding is a BIG issue..
Water flows downhill. When it's flooded _down_ South, the water _up_
North has no place to go.
(We lost our home (40' above sea level) to the flood waters of TS
Allison on June 9th, 2001).
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/24/2015 8:21 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>
>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
> >
> If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
> will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
> ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
> Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
> hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
> water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
> evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
cold wind. Now one is really warning the bridges and over passes that
there is a wind chill....
On 2/24/2015 9:19 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 8:29 PM, Leon wrote:
>
>
>> The standards for the common sense rating have been dumbed down so that
>> one one will be offended. Give that dummy a trophy!
>>
>
> If you are giving out a trophy, be sure that everyone on the team gets
> one and the other team too. Self esteem you know.
We both saw that movie. ;~)
On 2/24/2015 7:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:44:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>>>
>>> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the Northeast
>>> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
>>> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the Northeast
>>> this month" warming.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been "Normal
>> Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was warmer
>> in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
>> again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was unusual
>> to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
>> pretty often in the past 10 years.
>>
>> I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
>> process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a real
>> sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
>> information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything out of
>> the ordinary today.
>
> The evidence says that it's another way of increasing taxes.
>
Exactly, follow the money.
On 4/30/2015 10:16 AM, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> On 4/29/2015 7:47 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>
>>> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either.
>>> Once you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east
>>> Houston area, it really doesn't look like much of it is
>>> at risk for deadly flooding.
>>>
>> Remember Rita was on the heels of Katrina and Rita was a cat 5 storm
>> at one time. TV coverage from Katrina was still unfolding. Add to
>> that Dr. Neil Frank was a respected weather guy up until that episode.
>> We left, about 30 minutes ahead of the crowd, 2 1/2 days ahead of the
>> forecast hit.
>
> Yeah, I guess all of that plus total unfamiliarity with
> hurricanes would do it. In South Fla we tend to forget
> most people have never experienced a hurricane, and don't
> think about them every year.
>
> But realistically, most of Houston is ~45 feet above sea
> level (according to Wikipedia), storm surge flooding is
> not an issue. It's 9 feet above sea level where I am,
> and I don't worry about storm surge (mostly because I'm
> 12 miles inland, historically storm surge has not gone
> more than ~3 miles inland around here).
Yeah you have a special situation there, hurricanes can come from two
sides. ;~)
The SE Houston area is very susceptible to storm surge and the whole
area is subject to flooding during epic rain events. In 2001 we had
such an event with TS Allison, that one hit us 2 times in 2 weeks.
Downtown Houston and the underground was flooded for a few weeks. HW 59
S going into Houston was probably 16' under water for days.
On 2/24/2015 5:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:33:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/24/2015 12:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 12:55:38 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
>>>> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
>>>> February).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
>>>> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
>>>>
>>>> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
>>>> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
>>>> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
>>>> service said.
>>>> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
>>>> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>>>>
>>>> Records date back to 1902."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
>>>> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
>>>> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
>>>> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
>>>> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
>>>> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
>>>> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
>>>> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
>>>> element than something I really need to care about.
>>>>
>>>> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
>>>> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>>>>
>>>
>>> re: "I don't pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype element than something I really need to care about."
>>>
>>> I guess it all depends on where you are and what you do during extreme wind chill events.
>>>
>>> For the past few days we've been having "extreme wind chill warnings" with temps in the minus single digits and wind chills in the -20's to -30's.
>>>
>>> There is a huge difference from when I am shoveling my deck in the sheltered back yard vs. shoveling the driveway or walking the dog in the full force of the wind. There have been times when I have gone into the backyard just to get a reprieve from the wind and "warm up" a little.
>>>
>>> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely dangerous.
>>>
>>> http://www.noaa.gov/features/monitoring_0209/coldwinds.html
>>>
>> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
>> up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
>> forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
>> form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>
> Specifically, it's the equivalent temperature at which unprotected
> skin will freeze. Well, PUT ON A COAT! ;-)
>
Yeah, I don't think so. It is common to see wind chills that are above
freezing so nothing is going to freeze. It is simply the greater the
wind the faster the temperature of something will drop to the "actual"
temperature. But the meteorologists want us to think otherwise.
On 2/26/2015 12:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> If anything - people today spend less time out in those temperatures and
> wind exposure, simply because they do less, and what they do do is more
> couch/cellphone oriented than what we did as kids. Not to mention that
> today, the precious little ones cannot even walk to a bus stop because
> stupid parents want the bus to stop every 20 feet to pick up the darlings at
> their own mailbox. They are not even experiencing the same degree of
> exposure that we did as kids. It has nothing at all to do with the
> availablitly of a warm house nearby.
Not only does the bus stop at every house, I see parents driving the
kids from the garage to the end of the driveway to wait for the bus.
And this is in 40 degree weather with the sun shining..
On 2/24/2015 5:36 PM, Max wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 1:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a
>>> wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to
>>> block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not
>>> "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely
>>> dangerous.
>>>
>>
>> I disagree - in my opinion it is all media hype. We know that it is
>> cold in
>> the winter and that when the wind blows, it's even worse. We really
>> do not
>> need the hype of showing even lower temperatures, to know that it's
>> cold out
>> there. I grew up long before the age of "wind chill factor". Guess
>> what -
>> we knew it was cold out there and we either dressed for it, or took
>> refuge
>> in the manners that you describe. We did not need a flunky weatherman to
>> tell us the exagerated version of how cold it was. Common sense and all
>> that.
>>
>
> Common sense isn't as common as it used to be. ;-)
>
It is still common, it's just that a person with common sense 40 years
ago would look like a genius by comparison today.
The standards for the common sense rating have been dumbed down so that
one one will be offended. Give that dummy a trophy!
On 2/26/2015 3:35 PM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> On 2/26/2015 10:37 AM, Dave Balderstone wrote:
>>> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
>>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>>>> If they are going out in
>>>> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>>>> that anyone is going to perspire.
>>>
>>> Leon, it's easy to perspire in extreme cold, simply by working too hard.
>>>
>>> I've hunted deer and elk at -30C with -45 wind chill, and when you're
>>> plowing through snow drifts and brush, overheating and starting to
>>> sweat is a very real concern.
>>>
>>> I worry more about being too warm in extreme than I do about freezing.
>>> A lot more.
>>>
>>
>> But you are sweating under your protective clothing, NO?
>>
>> OK, this has gone completely off track.
>>
>> Wind chill does not lower the temperature. Wind does slightly lower the
>> skin surface temperature, if sweaty or wet, if the skin is "not"
>> protected by clothing. If the wet skin is protected by clothing,,,,, it
>> is protected by the clothing, and not exposed to the wind.
>>
>> Basically if you are warm enough to be sweating the cold is not going to
>> freeze you because you are sweating. You sweat because you are
>> overheated. Right?
>
> Come live here for a couple of years and you will understand wind chill
> all too well. <grin>
I'ma skerd I would freeze! ;~)
>
> You are correct that it doesn't lower air temperature. It has a very
> direct effect on exposed flesh and clothing that is permeable to wind.
> The problem with sweating in extreme cold isn't what happens when you
> sweat. It's what happens when you STOP that gets you into hypothermia.
>
> Using temperature is deceptive, as you say. Here in Canada a few years
> back they tried reporting wind chill as "watts of heat loss per square
> meter of exposed flesh" but went back to the temperature equivalent
> because people didn't understand the correct number.
OH MY God! More metric math to deal with.. ;~)
>
> And I've had people swear to me that wind chill affects their car or
> truck's ability to start in the winter, which is complete BS. But I
> have had a car over-cool at highway speed in our winters. We use
> cardboard to cover half or more of the radiator to control that. <ggg>
>
It does get cold here too. but not the extremes. I recall walking our
on our wooden deck one morning near Christmas. No rain at all but the
humidity froze and the deck was as slick as ice. It was 7F degrees.
A few years before that when I was still working automotive we had
vehicles being towed in for overheating. The coolant was bot mixed
strong enough to prevent the radiators from freezing.
On 2/25/2015 7:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 23:54:05 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>> On 2/24/2015 10:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can't say I really love winter, and for sure - I'm really tired of
>>>> the zero and sub-zero temperatures this year, but having said that,
>>>> my standard outer wear for this kind of weather is a hooded, zip up
>>>> sweatshirt and a windbreaker.(just a standard spring/fall weight
>>>> windbreaker). I'm just getting tired of having to wear it in the
>>>> damned living room...
>>>
>>> I'm thankful for heated seats and remote starters. My car has an
>>> excellent heater at -15 too.
>>
>> Funny you should mention that. My wife and I were just comparing the warm
>> up times of our two cars. My '06 Sonata will start to throw warm air within
>> less than a mile of driving, from a cold start in the garage. Her '10 Forte
>> takes 5 or 6 miles down the road to begin to throw heat. By the time I'm
>> 1.5 miles down the road I can turn the blower on full and be getting full
>> blown heat - she's still shivering in her car. I have a 6 cylinder in my
>> Sonata and she has a 4 in her Forte - you'd think hers would warm up
>> quicker, but that's not the case.
>
> My '13 F150 doesn't get warm until I'm half way home (18mi). I don't
> live in Vermont anymore, either. It doesn't get cold here in GA but
> my truck doesn't want to get warm. Gotta get it into the shop (gotta
> be a bad thermostat - still under warranty).
What does your temp gauge say? Normal, not your thermostat. You could
have a bad diverter valve.
On 2/25/2015 9:47 PM, [email protected] wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:24:59 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> Jeez... ;~) Yes people perspire, but typically only when it is warm
>> enough that their bodies need to be cooled. If they are going out in
>> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>> that anyone is going to perspire. They might if dressed too heavily but
>> then where is no wind inside all that clothing, otherwise they would not
>> be perspiring.
>
> People perspire all the time including in winter when they're wearing
> winter clothing.
>
> It sounds like you're talking about visible sweat.
>
Absolutely people sweat in winter clothing but that sweat is not going
to evaporate from the wind if it is inside your clothing and is not
exposed to wind.
I understand that wind will speed evaporation but only if the wind comes
in contact with the sweat. If your skin is exposed directly to freezing
weather it is not going to be sweating.
On 2/24/2015 4:33 PM, Leon wrote:
> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
> up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
> forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
> form make things colder than the actual temperature.
> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
Correct about "things". People, OTOH, will feel colder from the
evaporative affect on the skin. It feels colder than it really is.
On 4/28/2015 2:24 PM, Bill wrote:
> I was overlooking a beautiful lake the other day, and I thought
> to myself, if people could build housing and subdivisions literally on
> top of the lake, it would already be done.
It has.
http://www.tripchinaguide.com/public/upload/photo/aberdeen-floating-village/img_508_d20131008104752.jpg
I saw it 50 years ago.
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/25/2015 8:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
> Remote starters were illegal in VT, or more accurately, using them was
> illegal. Just more evidence that the state is nuts.
>
They'd have to find me first. Some places have laws against leaving a
car running with the keys in it, but remote starter lock the doors and
unless you hit the button, the engine will die when you hit the brake pedal.
It does contribute to global warming and the heartbreak of psoriasis
though.
On 2/24/2015 9:56 PM, Leon wrote:
> But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
> don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
> cold wind. Now one is really warning the bridges and over passes that
> there is a wind chill....
Meteorology likes to describe itself as a science, although the
forecasting part is akin to subjective crystal ball gazing.
The physics and chemistry of atmospheric science are arguably pure
science, relying upon objective, empirical observation. (well, when
politics doesn't intrude/rear its insidious head, as in AGW)
"Feels like" is subjective, and as such has no place whatsoever in
empirical observation of atmospheric conditions.
Fuck a bunch of big titted, coiffed talking heads, reading their crystal
balls in the finest, misguided "pop" science tradition.
You get only that which your intellect is capable...
End of story...
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
Wind Chill is based on temp and wind.
The equivalent formula in US customary units is:
T_wc=35.74 + 0.6215*T_a - 35.75*V^{+0.16} + 0.4275 T_a*V^{+0.16}
where
T_wc is the wind chill index, based on the Fahrenheit scale,
T_a is the air temperature, measured in °F, and
V is the wind speed, in mph.
Martin
On 2/24/2015 10:56 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>> "Wind chill" has nothing to do with evaporation, however. There is
>> very little water on the surface of the skin in the Winter (my dry
>> skin is evidence ;-). OTOH, any evaporation won't just make it feel
>> colder it will *make* it colder.
>
> Only to a point though. Wind chill is commonly reported to be 20 degrees
> colder than ambient this time of year. Evaporation is not going to lower
> temperatures that much when the air is this cold. Cold air does not hold
> moisture like warm air does, so evaporation is not the same factor that it
> can be in warmer air.
>
"dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
> Here in Florida, we have
> two seasons...
>
> 1. Too cold
> 2. Too hot
Pfaugh. The seasons in Florida are "tourist" and "rainy".
John
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Geezus John - don't I recall that the day you and I met at that local
> pub down there, that it was clearly "Too Hot!"? BTW - I have no idea
> when I'll get down there again, but whenever I do, we have to hook up
> again. I enjoyed that time.
Indeed I do remember, altho I don't recall it being too hot...
as I recall it was September-ish, so it was probably rainy.
Yeah, it'd be fun to get together to talk about stuff again.
John
"Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Which is to say, folks agree the Climate is changing, NOT that those
> nasty homo sapiens are causing it. Climate change is a normal part
> of the history of the planet.
Well, what you say is true. It's possible that Man is a cause
of climate change, in part or in total, and it's possible he
isn't. It's also possible that climate change may be beneficial
in some ways, or it may not.
But just suspose for a moment that Man is responsible in part
for climate change, and that the change is, mostly, harmful.
Would it not be wise to try and understand those causes, and
implement ways to correct them?
John
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up
> more from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to
> fix something that takes care of itself. ;~)
As I live in the pointy end of Florida, I've had reason to
study up on hurricanes. The short answer to your question is,
no-one knows what the effect of a warmer climate would be on
hurricanes.
In general, warmer water leads to more and stronger hurricanes.
2005, the year of Katrina, Wilma, and too many hurricanes to
name (*) was marked by unusually warm water in the Atlantic
and Gulf. But there have been years since then with unusually
warm waters, and fewer than usual hurricanes.
The strength of a hurricane is also dependant on the warmth
of the waters it passes over. A warmer climate should lead
to stronger hurricanes, but a warmer climate also leads to
stronger trade winds (as is seen with the El Nino weather
pattern), which suppresses and weakens hurricanes.
Hurricanes are very sensistive to winds blowing at different
speeds at different altitudes (what they call "wind shear").
A warmer climate may increase the strength of upper level
winds, which would tend to prevent hurricanes forming.
The factors which determine a hurricane's path, especially
when it's forming, aren't all that well understood. A
warming climate might change the pattern of high pressure
over the Atlantic, encouraging hurricanes to head north
over the Atlantic (or into New England) rather than west
into the Carribean or Florida.
In other words, too many interrelated things going on to
really predict what climate change might do.
John
(* literally too many - the Hurricane Center ran out of
letters of the alphabet, and named the last few using
Greek letters)
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:-
[email protected]:
> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
How now? I typed all that mess letter by letter... :-)
> I am of the form belief that the biggest reason that there are more
> named storms is simply because of the technology.
>
> 1. Back before the 60's, before powerful computers and satellite
> imagery, we simply did not have the capabilities to spot every storm
> that came off of the African coast and or many of those that developed
> between here and there. So I am sure we missed countless storms.
>
> Now we see most all of them and count every one of them whether they
> become a hurricane or not.
>
> 2. The weather service has spent a fortune on new equipment and
> technology. They "have" to justify that expense and will report any
> blip on the screen as a potential hurricane.
I agree with both of these, especially the first (altho, back
in the days of sailing ships the government collected a lot
of data on winds at sea, and there's a surprising amount of
information on hurricanes from the 1880s to the 1920s)
And in fairness to the NHC, while they have inflated the
number of hurricanes, they've also become vastly better at
predicting where they're going over the last 20 years.
John
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:46ydnQeDBKqbytzInZ2dnUVZ5g-
[email protected]:
> On 4/29/2015 12:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:-
>> [email protected]:
>>
>>> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
>>
>> How now? I typed all that mess letter by letter... :-)
>
> LOL and your style seemed to change too.
Probably because half way thru I forgot where I was going
and started over. I do that a lot.
> Certainly but I have to wonder how out dated the information was for
> useful warnings. By the time that information became available the
> weather was nice for cleaning up the destruction. ;~)
Oh, it was useless for warnings, and wasn't intended for
them. The government of the time was interested in knowing
what latitude the trade winds were, and how strong, at
different times of year.
The side effect, tho, is that the tracks of many hurricanes
in that era can be recreated with reasonable accuracy.
>> And in fairness to the NHC, while they have inflated the
>> number of hurricanes, they've also become vastly better at
>> predicting where they're going over the last 20 years.
>
> Yes but unfortunately, especially along the Texas coast, the weather
> guys on TV get so exited at the possibility of a cloud becoming a
> hurricane they almost piss themselves.
Oh hell yes, the TV weatherfolk are useless. Between working
themselves up into a frenzy beforehand, and then doing stupid
things when a storm actually shows...I recall a crew up in WPB
filming either Frances or Jeanne in 2004 - they were under a
parking deck on the lee side of an office building, and the
guy goes "we're going to step out here and see what's happening",
and as he does a sheet of metal siding blows past his nose at
about 40mph. "ah, I think we'll stay behind the building for
a while..."
> at leas one buss
> that caught fire while sitting in gridlock.
I recall that - it was a bus full of old folk from a nursing
home, many of whom had oxygen bottles. Needless to say, once
the fire started there was little hope of stopping it.
Never really understood how people got that panicked, either.
Once you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east
Houston area, it really doesn't look like much of it is
at risk for deadly flooding.
John
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
news:[email protected]:
> On 4/29/2015 7:47 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either.
>> Once you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east
>> Houston area, it really doesn't look like much of it is
>> at risk for deadly flooding.
>>
> Remember Rita was on the heels of Katrina and Rita was a cat 5 storm
> at one time. TV coverage from Katrina was still unfolding. Add to
> that Dr. Neil Frank was a respected weather guy up until that episode.
> We left, about 30 minutes ahead of the crowd, 2 1/2 days ahead of the
> forecast hit.
Yeah, I guess all of that plus total unfamiliarity with
hurricanes would do it. In South Fla we tend to forget
most people have never experienced a hurricane, and don't
think about them every year.
But realistically, most of Houston is ~45 feet above sea
level (according to Wikipedia), storm surge flooding is
not an issue. It's 9 feet above sea level where I am,
and I don't worry about storm surge (mostly because I'm
12 miles inland, historically storm surge has not gone
more than ~3 miles inland around here).
I drove along TX12 from DeQuincy to Vidor not too long
after Rita, and was surprised that there wasn't more
evidence of the storm. I suspect, tho, that if I'd
gone thru Lake Charles it would have looked more like
the Pascagoula - Gulfport stretch of I-10.
John
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:FuSdneJubOOg89
[email protected]:
> Yeah you have a special situation there, hurricanes can come from two
> sides. ;~)
Two? Three! Altho storms coming northward usually cross Cuba,
which is big enough to knock them down a fair bit.
> The SE Houston area is very susceptible to storm surge and the whole
> area is subject to flooding during epic rain events.
Yeah, I would not stay there with a hurricane coming. Some
parts of Baytown look like they'd flood if you just looked
at them crosseyed.
John
On 4/30/2015 9:04 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
>>
>> That clip includes the 2 of my 3 biggest fears: heights and water.
>> All it needed was a big snarling dog and I probably would have
>> crapped my pants. ;-)
>
> I watch these things and my stomach does somersaults just as if I were
> actually there.
Feel your pain ...
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KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On 2/25/2015 7:33 PM, Markem wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:24:59 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/25/2015 3:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> On 2/24/2015 8:56 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/24/2015 8:21 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>> On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>>>> >
>>>>> If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
>>>>> will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
>>>>> ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
>>>>> Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
>>>>> hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
>>>>> water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
>>>>> evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
>>>>
>>>> But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
>>>> don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
>>>> cold wind.
>>>>
>>> But people do perspire, and if perspiring skin is exposed to the wind,
>>> the resulting evaporation will cool the person off. It's an actual
>>> cooling effect, and under the right conditions can cool the skin below
>>> the ambient air temperature.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeez... ;~) Yes people perspire, but typically only when it is warm
>> enough that their bodies need to be cooled. If they are going out in
>> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>> that anyone is going to perspire. They might if dressed too heavily but
>> then where is no wind inside all that clothing, otherwise they would not
>> be perspiring.
>
> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not perspire,
> cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the point of soaking
> your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
>
But if you are sweating it will be inside your clothing not while you
are butt naked with skin underexposed to the wind.
And you are not going to freeze to death even if you were butt naked in
40 degree weather with a wind chill of 28 degrees.
On 4/29/2015 1:53 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 9:42:16 AM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 4/28/2015 7:49 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
>>>> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up
>>>> more from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to
>>>> fix something that takes care of itself. ;~)
>>>
>>> As I live in the pointy end of Florida, I've had reason to
>>> study up on hurricanes. The short answer to your question is,
>>> no-one knows what the effect of a warmer climate would be on
>>> hurricanes.
>>>
>>> In general, warmer water leads to more and stronger hurricanes.
>>> 2005, the year of Katrina, Wilma, and too many hurricanes to
>>> name (*) was marked by unusually warm water in the Atlantic
>>> and Gulf. But there have been years since then with unusually
>>> warm waters, and fewer than usual hurricanes.
>>>
>>> The strength of a hurricane is also dependant on the warmth
>>> of the waters it passes over. A warmer climate should lead
>>> to stronger hurricanes, but a warmer climate also leads to
>>> stronger trade winds (as is seen with the El Nino weather
>>> pattern), which suppresses and weakens hurricanes.
>>>
>>> Hurricanes are very sensistive to winds blowing at different
>>> speeds at different altitudes (what they call "wind shear").
>>> A warmer climate may increase the strength of upper level
>>> winds, which would tend to prevent hurricanes forming.
>>>
>>> The factors which determine a hurricane's path, especially
>>> when it's forming, aren't all that well understood. A
>>> warming climate might change the pattern of high pressure
>>> over the Atlantic, encouraging hurricanes to head north
>>> over the Atlantic (or into New England) rather than west
>>> into the Carribean or Florida.
>>>
>>> In other words, too many interrelated things going on to
>>> really predict what climate change might do.
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> (* literally too many - the Hurricane Center ran out of
>>> letters of the alphabet, and named the last few using
>>> Greek letters)
>>>
>>
>> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
>>
>> I am of the form belief that the biggest reason that there are more
>> named storms is simply because of the technology.
>>
>> 1. Back before the 60's, before powerful computers and satellite
>> imagery, we simply did not have the capabilities to spot every storm
>> that came off of the African coast and or many of those that developed
>> between here and there. So I am sure we missed countless storms.
>>
>> Now we see most all of them and count every one of them whether they
>> become a hurricane or not.
>>
>> 2. The weather service has spent a fortune on new equipment and
>> technology. They "have" to justify that expense and will report any
>> blip on the screen as a potential hurricane.
>>
>> 3. I think in general there is more data available that no one has
>> determined as to it's actual relevance. Yes there has been a rapid warm
>> up in the norther hemisphere. The calendar says it is summer. The
>> local reporter is standing in the rain at the curb of the street in
>> boots just short of waders. The water is about 2 inches deep and
>> flowing towards the drain and this is described as treacherous.
>
> 2 inches of water is described as treacherous?
>
> Let's see that local reporter do what this guy does at about 0:30.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue2gcyT4fc4
>
LOL.. SHEEEEEIT
I just knew you were going to show the one where the Today show switched
to a woman reporter sitting in a canoe showing the flood waters and a
person or two walking between her and the river in water about 10" deep.
Matt Lauer called her on that one and was cracking up laughing.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:39:20 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Dave Balderstone wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
>> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>>> If they are going out in
>>> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>>> that anyone is going to perspire.
>>
>> Leon, it's easy to perspire in extreme cold, simply by working too
>> hard.
>>
>> I've hunted deer and elk at -30C with -45 wind chill, and when you're
>> plowing through snow drifts and brush, overheating and starting to
>> sweat is a very real concern.
>>
>
>But Dave - that is such a different thing! You knew that exertion was going
>to result in sweat and what the penalty for that would be. That is quite
>different from the exagerated, overly hyped up reporting of today's
>weatherman. Let's be honest - how many people today really put in the
>physical effort in their day to day life - as they wake up at 7:00AM to
>prepare for the arduous task of starting their car and heading to work, as
>you or the rest of us hunters have experienced in a day out in the field.
>You're interjecting a valid point - but it does not really pertain to the
>discussion at hand.
It pertains to my point, you want to stay warm. Dave probably slows
himself in that situation and adjust his gear to allow heat to escape,
to avoid sweating.
As far as weatherman are concern "It's Entertainment".
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 10:18:15 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
> John Grossbohlin wrote:
>=20
> >
> > As the owner of Hunter Mtn ski resort was quoted as saying one time
> > "You don't ski naked" when asked about the good turn outs on the
> > slope despite the very low wind chill temperatures...
>=20
> What a stupid question, eh? (tip of the hat to Dave and our other friend=
s=20
> in the great white north...). Imagine that - people sliding down a hill =
at=20
> what - maybe 20 or 30 mph, and the questioner is asking about wind chill?=
=20
> Hell - they experience wind chill everytime they go down the damned hill.=
=20
> Sheese...
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
You are over-simplifying the situation.
On a typical day skiers spend much more time not skiing than skiing. In ord=
er, from bad to worse:
1 - Lift lines
2 - Lift rides
3 - Lift riders stuck suspended in mid air (and wind) due to malfunction or=
fallen skier.
Those are the times when both the temperature and wind bother the patrons.
When actually skiing, the wind can sometimes hurt, sometimes help. Headwind=
vs. tailwind vs. crosswind. In addition, the body builds up heat while ski=
ing, but not while in the lift line or on the lift, so there is an offset. =
Of course, sometimes the bad part is getting over heated, perspiring and th=
en taking off layers to feel more comfortable. Then you get stuck suspended=
on the lift and you are underdressed for the weather.
It's a balancing act.
While there have been a few brutal days when it just sucked all day long, f=
or the most part the cold and wind don't bother me when I am actually skiin=
g, it's only during the non-skiing times that you really notice the weather=
.
On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:40:25 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>=20
> >
> > Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a
> > wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to
> > block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not
> > "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely
> > dangerous.
> >
>=20
> I disagree - in my opinion it is all media hype. We know that it is cold=
in=20
> the winter and that when the wind blows, it's even worse. We really do n=
ot=20
> need the hype of showing even lower temperatures, to know that it's cold =
out=20
> there. I grew up long before the age of "wind chill factor". Guess what=
-=20
> we knew it was cold out there and we either dressed for it, or took refug=
e=20
> in the manners that you describe. We did not need a flunky weatherman to=
=20
> tell us the exagerated version of how cold it was. Common sense and all=
=20
> that.
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
You call it hype, I call it doing us a favor.=20
They can tell me it's 5 below with winds of 15MPH or they can tell me it's =
5 below with a wind chill temperature of -26. I thank them for doing the ma=
th for me. The fact is, at 5 below with winds of 15MPH, it's going to feel =
like -26, not -5 or -40, so now I know to dress for -26, not -5 or -40.
Of course, we could use AccuWeather's RealFeel=AE:
"The AccuWeather RealFeel=AE ... uses multiple factors including the temper=
ature, humidity, cloud cover, sun intensity, and wind to explain how hot (o=
r cold) it feels outside."=20
With that many variables, I'd be willing to tag that as hype. :-)
I also tag terms like Snowmageddon, Snowpocalypse, and Snowzilla as hype.
We now know your opinion of "flunky weatherman", but we don't know your opi=
nion of NOAA. They don't appear to consider wind chill temperatures as hype=
. Are they "flunky" also?
From: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ddc/?n=3Dwindchill
"Frostbite Threshold: For the first time, the wind chill temperatures inclu=
de specific threshold values that provide specific warning of time-to-frost=
bite at given levels of wind chill. For example, a temperature of 5 degrees=
Fahrenheit and a wind speed of 30 mph equal a wind chill of -19, which wil=
l produce frostbite in 30 minutes. The chart also shows how frostbite will =
occur sooner if the temperature is lower or the wind speed higher. Since it=
is the responsibility of the National Weather Service to help protect live=
s, this is an important service to the American people."
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 10:56:26 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/25/2015 7:33 PM, Markem wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:24:59 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/25/2015 3:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>> On 2/24/2015 8:56 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>> On 2/24/2015 8:21 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>>>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
>>>>>> will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
>>>>>> ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
>>>>>> Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
>>>>>> hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
>>>>>> water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
>>>>>> evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
>>>>>
>>>>> But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
>>>>> don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
>>>>> cold wind.
>>>>>
>>>> But people do perspire, and if perspiring skin is exposed to the wind,
>>>> the resulting evaporation will cool the person off. It's an actual
>>>> cooling effect, and under the right conditions can cool the skin below
>>>> the ambient air temperature.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeez... ;~) Yes people perspire, but typically only when it is warm
>>> enough that their bodies need to be cooled. If they are going out in
>>> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>>> that anyone is going to perspire. They might if dressed too heavily but
>>> then where is no wind inside all that clothing, otherwise they would not
>>> be perspiring.
>>
>> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not perspire,
>> cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the point of soaking
>> your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
>>
>
>But if you are sweating it will be inside your clothing not while you
>are butt naked with skin underexposed to the wind.
>
>And you are not going to freeze to death even if you were butt naked in
>40 degree weather with a wind chill of 28 degrees.
>
>
But you are going to be damn cold. The cops will probably show up and
take you off to get an orange jump suit.
On 4/27/2015 5:53 PM, pentapus wrote:
> Sea ice is at such lows as to open up the northwest passage.
So, why do you think it was named a "passage"?
--
eWoodShop: www.eWoodShop.com
Wood Shop: www.e-WoodShop.net
https://www.google.com/+eWoodShop
https://plus.google.com/+KarlCaillouet/posts
http://www.custommade.com/by/ewoodshop/
KarlCaillouet@ (the obvious)
On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 2:06:34 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
> On 4/30/2015 9:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> > On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 8:48:13 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
> >> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
> >> news:46ydnQeDBKqbytzInZ2dnUVZ5g- [email protected]:
> >>
> >>> On 4/29/2015 12:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> >>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:-
> >>>> [email protected]:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
> >>>>
> >>>> How now? I typed all that mess letter by letter... :-)
> >>>
> >>> LOL and your style seemed to change too.
> >>
> >> Probably because half way thru I forgot where I was going and
> >> started over. I do that a lot.
> >>
> >>> Certainly but I have to wonder how out dated the information was
> >>> for useful warnings. By the time that information became
> >>> available the weather was nice for cleaning up the destruction.
> >>> ;~)
> >>
> >> Oh, it was useless for warnings, and wasn't intended for them. The
> >> government of the time was interested in knowing what latitude the
> >> trade winds were, and how strong, at different times of year.
> >>
> >> The side effect, tho, is that the tracks of many hurricanes in that
> >> era can be recreated with reasonable accuracy.
> >>
> >>>> And in fairness to the NHC, while they have inflated the number
> >>>> of hurricanes, they've also become vastly better at predicting
> >>>> where they're going over the last 20 years.
> >>>
> >>> Yes but unfortunately, especially along the Texas coast, the
> >>> weather guys on TV get so exited at the possibility of a cloud
> >>> becoming a hurricane they almost piss themselves.
> >>
> >> Oh hell yes, the TV weatherfolk are useless. Between working
> >> themselves up into a frenzy beforehand, and then doing stupid
> >> things when a storm actually shows...I recall a crew up in WPB
> >> filming either Frances or Jeanne in 2004 - they were under a
> >> parking deck on the lee side of an office building, and the guy
> >> goes "we're going to step out here and see what's happening", and
> >> as he does a sheet of metal siding blows past his nose at about
> >> 40mph. "ah, I think we'll stay behind the building for a while..."
> >>
> >>> at leas one buss that caught fire while sitting in gridlock.
> >>
> >> I recall that - it was a bus full of old folk from a nursing home,
> >> many of whom had oxygen bottles. Needless to say, once the fire
> >> started there was little hope of stopping it.
> >>
> >> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either. Once
> >> you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east Houston area, it
> >> really doesn't look like much of it is at risk for deadly
> >> flooding.
> >>
> >> John
> >
> > A few months ago I received a letter from the company that holds my
> > mortgage informing me that my property is located in a FEMA
> > designated Special Flood Hazard Area. If I didn't provide proof of
> > flood insurance by a specific date, they were going to buy the
> > insurance for me and add the premiums to my monthly payment.
>
> I got such a letter from my insurance company in 2005. My Flood
> insurance was going to increase from $239 a year to $3500 a year. I
> elected to not renew for a few years. I had an elevation survey done
> and that dropped to less then $600 2 years later.
> I was grandfathered in but the insurance co has hearing nothing of it
> and my attorney friend said we could fight and win but the cost might
> not be worth it.
I assume that you did not have a mortgage at that point, correct?
If you did, I'm not sure you could have chosen not to renew.
From: https://www.floodsmart.gov/floodsmart/pages/residential_coverage/homeowner.jsp
"If your home is in a high-risk flood area and you have obtained a mortgage through a federally regulated or insured lender, you are required to purchase a flood insurance policy."
Of course, if your mortgage was held by a guy that looks like this, flood insurance would have been the least of your problems...
http://panachereport.com/channels/more%20short%20stories/images/mob.jpg
On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 10:05:25 AM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> >
> > That clip includes the 2 of my 3 biggest fears: heights and water.
> > All it needed was a big snarling dog and I probably would have
> > crapped my pants. ;-)
>
> I watch these things and my stomach does somersaults just as if I were
> actually there.
>
...and you also lean back in your chair, right? BTDT
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 21:36:55 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] wrote:
>> On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:39:26 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> My temperature gauge has been set on "freezing" all Winter. Oh, you
>>>> mean the truck's? It's very slow to come up to temperature.
>>>
>>> So is the 350 in my truck, but man - can that baby do some work!
>>
>> Mine is a 5L. I don't remember it being that slow to heat last year
>> but I wasn't on the drugs that a screwing with my metabolism, either.
>
>Maybe a stupid question, but you have made sure that your radiator is
>properly filled (and the overflow tank), haven't you? Low coolant levels
>will result in reduced heat output.
Good point but it's a fairly new truck (18K mi) and it's been
regularly serviced. I'll have to check tomorrow.
On 4/30/2015 9:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 8:48:13 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>> news:46ydnQeDBKqbytzInZ2dnUVZ5g- [email protected]:
>>
>>> On 4/29/2015 12:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:-
>>>> [email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
>>>>
>>>> How now? I typed all that mess letter by letter... :-)
>>>
>>> LOL and your style seemed to change too.
>>
>> Probably because half way thru I forgot where I was going and
>> started over. I do that a lot.
>>
>>> Certainly but I have to wonder how out dated the information was
>>> for useful warnings. By the time that information became
>>> available the weather was nice for cleaning up the destruction.
>>> ;~)
>>
>> Oh, it was useless for warnings, and wasn't intended for them. The
>> government of the time was interested in knowing what latitude the
>> trade winds were, and how strong, at different times of year.
>>
>> The side effect, tho, is that the tracks of many hurricanes in that
>> era can be recreated with reasonable accuracy.
>>
>>>> And in fairness to the NHC, while they have inflated the number
>>>> of hurricanes, they've also become vastly better at predicting
>>>> where they're going over the last 20 years.
>>>
>>> Yes but unfortunately, especially along the Texas coast, the
>>> weather guys on TV get so exited at the possibility of a cloud
>>> becoming a hurricane they almost piss themselves.
>>
>> Oh hell yes, the TV weatherfolk are useless. Between working
>> themselves up into a frenzy beforehand, and then doing stupid
>> things when a storm actually shows...I recall a crew up in WPB
>> filming either Frances or Jeanne in 2004 - they were under a
>> parking deck on the lee side of an office building, and the guy
>> goes "we're going to step out here and see what's happening", and
>> as he does a sheet of metal siding blows past his nose at about
>> 40mph. "ah, I think we'll stay behind the building for a while..."
>>
>>> at leas one buss that caught fire while sitting in gridlock.
>>
>> I recall that - it was a bus full of old folk from a nursing home,
>> many of whom had oxygen bottles. Needless to say, once the fire
>> started there was little hope of stopping it.
>>
>> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either. Once
>> you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east Houston area, it
>> really doesn't look like much of it is at risk for deadly
>> flooding.
>>
>> John
>
> A few months ago I received a letter from the company that holds my
> mortgage informing me that my property is located in a FEMA
> designated Special Flood Hazard Area. If I didn't provide proof of
> flood insurance by a specific date, they were going to buy the
> insurance for me and add the premiums to my monthly payment.
I got such a letter from my insurance company in 2005. My Flood
insurance was going to increase from $239 a year to $3500 a year. I
elected to not renew for a few years. I had an elevation survey done
and that dropped to less then $600 2 years later.
I was grandfathered in but the insurance co has hearing nothing of it
and my attorney friend said we could fight and win but the cost might
not be worth it.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 16:43:02 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/25/2015 7:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 23:54:05 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>>>> On 2/24/2015 10:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Can't say I really love winter, and for sure - I'm really tired of
>>>>> the zero and sub-zero temperatures this year, but having said that,
>>>>> my standard outer wear for this kind of weather is a hooded, zip up
>>>>> sweatshirt and a windbreaker.(just a standard spring/fall weight
>>>>> windbreaker). I'm just getting tired of having to wear it in the
>>>>> damned living room...
>>>>
>>>> I'm thankful for heated seats and remote starters. My car has an
>>>> excellent heater at -15 too.
>>>
>>> Funny you should mention that. My wife and I were just comparing the warm
>>> up times of our two cars. My '06 Sonata will start to throw warm air within
>>> less than a mile of driving, from a cold start in the garage. Her '10 Forte
>>> takes 5 or 6 miles down the road to begin to throw heat. By the time I'm
>>> 1.5 miles down the road I can turn the blower on full and be getting full
>>> blown heat - she's still shivering in her car. I have a 6 cylinder in my
>>> Sonata and she has a 4 in her Forte - you'd think hers would warm up
>>> quicker, but that's not the case.
>>
>> My '13 F150 doesn't get warm until I'm half way home (18mi). I don't
>> live in Vermont anymore, either. It doesn't get cold here in GA but
>> my truck doesn't want to get warm. Gotta get it into the shop (gotta
>> be a bad thermostat - still under warranty).
>
>What does your temp gauge say? Normal, not your thermostat. You could
>have a bad diverter valve.
>
My temperature gauge has been set on "freezing" all Winter. Oh, you
mean the truck's? It's very slow to come up to temperature.
Which is to say, folks agree the Climate is changing, NOT that those nasty =
homo sapiens are causing it. Climate change is a normal part of the histo=
ry of the planet. In fact, there were greater swings in the global climate=
before those nasty, industry driven, critters ever appeared on the scene.
Deb
On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 8:48:13 PM UTC-4, John McCoy wrote:
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:46ydnQeDBKqbytzInZ2dnUVZ5g-
> [email protected]:
>=20
> > On 4/29/2015 12:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
> >> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:-
> >> [email protected]:
> >>
> >>> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
> >>
> >> How now? I typed all that mess letter by letter... :-)
> >=20
> > LOL and your style seemed to change too.
>=20
> Probably because half way thru I forgot where I was going
> and started over. I do that a lot.
>=20
> > Certainly but I have to wonder how out dated the information was for=20
> > useful warnings. By the time that information became available the=20
> > weather was nice for cleaning up the destruction. ;~)
>=20
> Oh, it was useless for warnings, and wasn't intended for
> them. The government of the time was interested in knowing
> what latitude the trade winds were, and how strong, at
> different times of year.
>=20
> The side effect, tho, is that the tracks of many hurricanes
> in that era can be recreated with reasonable accuracy.
>=20
> >> And in fairness to the NHC, while they have inflated the
> >> number of hurricanes, they've also become vastly better at
> >> predicting where they're going over the last 20 years.
> >=20
> > Yes but unfortunately, especially along the Texas coast, the weather=20
> > guys on TV get so exited at the possibility of a cloud becoming a=20
> > hurricane they almost piss themselves.
>=20
> Oh hell yes, the TV weatherfolk are useless. Between working
> themselves up into a frenzy beforehand, and then doing stupid
> things when a storm actually shows...I recall a crew up in WPB
> filming either Frances or Jeanne in 2004 - they were under a
> parking deck on the lee side of an office building, and the
> guy goes "we're going to step out here and see what's happening",
> and as he does a sheet of metal siding blows past his nose at
> about 40mph. "ah, I think we'll stay behind the building for
> a while..."
> =20
> > at leas one buss=20
> > that caught fire while sitting in gridlock.
>=20
> I recall that - it was a bus full of old folk from a nursing
> home, many of whom had oxygen bottles. Needless to say, once
> the fire started there was little hope of stopping it.
>=20
> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either.
> Once you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east
> Houston area, it really doesn't look like much of it is
> at risk for deadly flooding.
>=20
> John
A few months ago I received a letter from the company that holds my mortgag=
e informing me that my property is located in a FEMA designated Special Flo=
od Hazard Area. If I didn't provide proof of flood insurance by a specific =
date, they were going to buy the insurance for me and add the premiums to m=
y monthly payment.
My house is located on top of a steep hill, with an elevation that is 155' =
higher than a large bay and one of the Great Lakes which is about a mile aw=
ay. It would take a flood of biblical proportions for the water to reach my=
house. Houses within just a block or two would be completely submerged bef=
ore my house even got damp.
When I called them about the letter they said "Sorry, that letter was sent =
to the owner of every single property we hold the mortgage on. Feel free to=
disregard it."
It took them over 3 months to formally acknowledge the error in writing. I =
wonder how many people actually bought flood insurance based on the initial=
letter. I wonder if they can get reimbursed for the premiums and any cance=
llation charges. "Your honor, the big, bad insurance company threatened me.=
I'm not a flood expert, so I believed them."=20
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 22:53:03 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/25/2015 8:37 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>
>>
>> Remote starters were illegal in VT, or more accurately, using them was
>> illegal. Just more evidence that the state is nuts.
>>
>
>They'd have to find me first. Some places have laws against leaving a
>car running with the keys in it, but remote starter lock the doors and
>unless you hit the button, the engine will die when you hit the brake pedal.
The law had nothing to do with the keys. Running any vehicle, without
an occupant, was illegal and they *WOULD* ticket you (though rarely on
your property).
>It does contribute to global warming and the heartbreak of psoriasis
>though.
AIUI, it was originally intended to prevent truckers from leaving
their engines running overnight.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 17:38:36 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 22:10:17 -0400, krw wrote:
>
>>>Agreed - much better to trust the oil and coal companies :-)
>>
>> Though you may not really believe it, you're right. At least they
>> provide a good product for a fair price.
>
>You are just pulling my chain, right? You can't possibly really believe
>that. Next thing I know you'll be telling me about the benevolence of
>the pharmaceutical companies :-).
Well, they keep me alive so I can help you keep government alive. ;-)
On 4/28/2015 6:29 AM, Dr. Deb wrote:
>
> Which is to say, folks agree the Climate is changing, NOT that those nasty homo sapiens are causing it. Climate change is a normal part of the history of the planet. In fact, there were greater swings in the global climate before those nasty, industry driven, critters ever appeared on the scene.
>
> Deb
>
The two sides cannot agree if man is part of the change. I'd think it
would have some effect as we change the land from forest to crop filed
or from field to strip mine. Burning fuel may be part of it, though
some heat is lost to outer space.
I think a lot of it is cause by Al Gore flying around in his jet telling
people to not burn fossil fuels like his 10,000 sq. ft. house does.
On 2/24/2015 12:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 12:55:38 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
>> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
>> February).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
>> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
>>
>> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
>> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
>> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
>> service said.
>> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
>> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>>
>> Records date back to 1902."
>>
>>
>>
>> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
>> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
>> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
>> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
>> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
>> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
>> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
>> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
>> element than something I really need to care about.
>>
>> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
>> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>>
>
> re: "I don't pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype element than something I really need to care about."
>
> I guess it all depends on where you are and what you do during extreme wind chill events.
>
> For the past few days we've been having "extreme wind chill warnings" with temps in the minus single digits and wind chills in the -20's to -30's.
>
> There is a huge difference from when I am shoveling my deck in the sheltered back yard vs. shoveling the driveway or walking the dog in the full force of the wind. There have been times when I have gone into the backyard just to get a reprieve from the wind and "warm up" a little.
>
> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely dangerous.
>
> http://www.noaa.gov/features/monitoring_0209/coldwinds.html
>
When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
form make things colder than the actual temperature.
What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:43:32 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 2/26/2015 12:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> If anything - people today spend less time out in those temperatures
>>> and wind exposure, simply because they do less, and what they do do
>>> is more couch/cellphone oriented than what we did as kids. Not to
>>> mention that today, the precious little ones cannot even walk to a
>>> bus stop because stupid parents want the bus to stop every 20 feet
>>> to pick up the darlings at their own mailbox. They are not even
>>> experiencing the same degree of exposure that we did as kids. It
>>> has nothing at all to do with the availablitly of a warm house
>>> nearby.
>>
>> Not only does the bus stop at every house, I see parents driving the
>> kids from the garage to the end of the driveway to wait for the bus.
>> And this is in 40 degree weather with the sun shining..
>
>But the wind chill... Well that, and "precious" can't possibly dress for
>the weather - that wouldn't be fashionable.
Living near a University campus dress code for winter here seem to be
long sleeve t shirt and baggy shorts, sandals. Now it is southern
Illinois and wind chills near zero, so all that pampering made them
stupid, or maybe tougher ::cough::
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:38:46 -0500, Ed Pawlowski <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 2/26/2015 12:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>
>> If anything - people today spend less time out in those temperatures and
>> wind exposure, simply because they do less, and what they do do is more
>> couch/cellphone oriented than what we did as kids. Not to mention that
>> today, the precious little ones cannot even walk to a bus stop because
>> stupid parents want the bus to stop every 20 feet to pick up the darlings at
>> their own mailbox. They are not even experiencing the same degree of
>> exposure that we did as kids. It has nothing at all to do with the
>> availablitly of a warm house nearby.
>
>Not only does the bus stop at every house, I see parents driving the
>kids from the garage to the end of the driveway to wait for the bus.
>And this is in 40 degree weather with the sun shining..
In my neighborhood, mommy drives the brat to the main road (not far)
and waits on the corner (adjacent to the stop sign). One lane of the
intersection is blocked. What a PITA.
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 08:43:53 -0500, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 3/15/2015 11:53 PM, Doug Winterburn wrote:
>> On 03/15/2015 09:23 PM, Martin Eastburn wrote:
>>> We are really getting out of the little ice age.
>>>
>>> They are finding mines and towns that were under ice in Greenland.
>>> Vikings lived there.
>>>
>>> The Hudson Bay in Canada used to have
>>> trading ships from England and France come down and exchange goods.
>>>
>>> The French fur trappers all traded that way.
>>>
>>> The ships that were frozen into the ice when the large 'lake' that
>>> opened into the arctic ocean froze over. Now with the thaw, the ships
>>> are being discovered as treasure troves of timely goods.
>>>
>>> If it was always frozen, then trading ships for Hudson Bay would never
>>> have gotten there and Hudson Bay trading company would never have been
>>> there.
>>>
>>> The little ice Storm really hit us in 1888. It was winter for two years
>>> long - no spring, summer or fall. Froze cattle on their feet. That was
>>> bad. It is just now backing off from the bad days of back then.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> On 3/15/2015 4:35 PM, Gray_Wolf wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:57:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2/24/2015 7:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:44:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the
>>>>>>>> Northeast
>>>>>>>> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
>>>>>>>> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the
>>>>>>>> Northeast
>>>>>>>> this month" warming.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been
>>>>>>> "Normal
>>>>>>> Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was
>>>>>>> warmer
>>>>>>> in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
>>>>>>> again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was
>>>>>>> unusual
>>>>>>> to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
>>>>>>> pretty often in the past 10 years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
>>>>>>> process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a
>>>>>>> real
>>>>>>> sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
>>>>>>> information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything
>>>>>>> out of
>>>>>>> the ordinary today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The evidence says that it's another way of increasing taxes.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Exactly, follow the money.
>>>>
>>>> Yes indeed! I'm very suspicious about anything the government
>>>> promotes. They lie about everything, every time!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>> ...and in another billion years, warming will be so bad that all life on
>> earth will be extinguished. In 5 billion years, the earth will be
>> incinerated by the sun. Reducing our carbon footprint won't mean
>> diddly. In between now and then, climate change will yoyo with or
>> without humans.
>>
>>
>And the real tragedy in 5 billion years is that Bill Gates will have run
>out of money. ;~)
Whew! I thought you wrote 5 *MILLION* years. I was getting worried!
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 13:10:44 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Markem wrote:
>
>>
>> I was a 462xx Weapons mechanic (fancy name for bomb loader). The KKK
>> sign just out of Smithfield on the way to Raleigh, the one outside the
>> base burned down before I got there. What I remember is the BBQ joint
>> out the back gate, saw a news piece about it when Clinton was POTUS.
>
>Hey - a Muzzle Fucker! I was 316X1-L. Sidewinders, Sparrows, Shrikes,
>Mavericks, Falcons. They called us Missile Weanies at the time. It was
>good to be in missiles... Air conditioned shops in the summer, heated in
>the winter, never had to work out in the crummy elements. One of my
>roomates in the barracks was a Muzzle Fucker too. Nice guy but you just had
>to teach them and the 461's (B-B Stackers) so much about life's finer
>points - like how to use a fork in the chow hall, etc.
>
>So - you were still there when the F-4's were there. Awesome, eh? The
>meanist, most badass jet fighter ever. I used to love driving by the BUFF
>alert area on the way to the shop and watching those SAC guys standing guard
>around the BUFFs. Used to think to myself - what a shitty job they have!
>Was glad to be in TAC.
Ah yes proof that with enough power anything can fly, the F-4 Phantom.
When I was leaving they were suppose to be changing to F-16s and
A-10s. The load shop had a sandwhich and snack setup, we paid for our
beer bashes and then some, till the flight line snack shop got all
uppity.
On 4/28/2015 5:29 AM, Dr. Deb wrote:
>
> Which is to say, folks agree the Climate is changing, NOT that those
> nasty homo sapiens are causing it. Climate change is a normal part
> of the history of the planet. In fact, there were greater swings in
> the global climate before those nasty, industry driven, critters ever
> appeared on the scene.
>
> Deb
>
Exactly, the climate changes daily in my back yard, always has and
always will. One cannot deny that. That would happen with no living
thing on earth.
On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 12:34:46 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Markem wrote:
>> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 23:02:33 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Markem wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not
>>>> perspire, cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the
>>>> point of soaking your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
>>>
>>> I have to take respectful exception to that comment. I think a lot
>>> of what's being said here is that we all grew up playing out in the
>>> cold and snow - long before the notion of wind chill became popular,
>>> and we survived it just fine. Now - today - wind chill is bantered
>>> about as if it is some plague upon mankind. Look - we all work up a
>>> sweat doing hard work outside in the wintertime - we don't die from
>>> that effort. Too much adoo about nothing...
>>
>> But you had shelter to dry off and warm up, survival in cold weather
>> with out a house to warm up in is about not getting wet at all.
>
>Come on Mark - people still have places to go into and get out of the
>elements. That is no different today than it was when we were coming up.
>The fact is that we would spend hours of a day outside in those temperatures
>and look - we are still here to talk about it today. Your comment suggests
>something different exists today, and I'm going to call Bullshit on that
>thought.
>
>If anything - people today spend less time out in those temperatures and
>wind exposure, simply because they do less, and what they do do is more
>couch/cellphone oriented than what we did as kids. Not to mention that
>today, the precious little ones cannot even walk to a bus stop because
>stupid parents want the bus to stop every 20 feet to pick up the darlings at
>their own mailbox. They are not even experiencing the same degree of
>exposure that we did as kids. It has nothing at all to do with the
>availablitly of a warm house nearby.
>
>Sorry - I cannot agree with your position on this. We are continuing to
>pussify our society and this (IMHO) is just one more example of it.
To quote a Houston laywer about the weather in Houston. It is always
great 78, why would anyone go outside. ;)
As to spend hours outside in the cold, yes and I have had the
frostbite of the toes. Camped in below zero weather too. Staying warm
in those condtion require staying dry in your under layers. That is as
it always has been.
Try reading a bit about cold weather survival. You are heading off in
an rant about society, I am talking about not getting wet when out in
the cold and staying warmer. The key is the phrase "no shelter" as to
dying from exposure, yes it takes time and no body fuel.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 10:23:49 -0800 (PST), DerbyDad03
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 12:55:38 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
>> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
>> February).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
>> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
>>
>> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
>> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
>> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
>> service said.
>> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
>> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>>
>> Records date back to 1902."
>>
>>
>>
>> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
>> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
>> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
>> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
>> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
>> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
>> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
>> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
>> element than something I really need to care about.
>>
>> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
>> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>>
>
>re: "I don't pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype element than something I really need to care about."
>
>I guess it all depends on where you are and what you do during extreme wind chill events.
>
>For the past few days we've been having "extreme wind chill warnings" with temps in the minus single digits and wind chills in the -20's to -30's.
>
>There is a huge difference from when I am shoveling my deck in the sheltered back yard vs. shoveling the driveway or walking the dog in the full force of the wind. There have been times when I have gone into the backyard just to get a reprieve from the wind and "warm up" a little.
>
>Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely dangerous.
>
>http://www.noaa.gov/features/monitoring_0209/coldwinds.html
The coldest I have ever felt, was on the flightline in North Carolina,
it was only -10F. But it was snowing, and there was not a cloud in the
sky.
On 4/30/2015 2:05 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 2:06:34 PM UTC-4, Leon wrote:
>> On 4/30/2015 9:23 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, April 29, 2015 at 8:48:13 PM UTC-4, John McCoy
>>> wrote:
>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in
>>>> news:46ydnQeDBKqbytzInZ2dnUVZ5g- [email protected]:
>>>>
>>>>> On 4/29/2015 12:56 PM, John McCoy wrote:
>>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote in news:-
>>>>>> [email protected]:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ain't cut'n'past grand?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How now? I typed all that mess letter by letter... :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> LOL and your style seemed to change too.
>>>>
>>>> Probably because half way thru I forgot where I was going and
>>>> started over. I do that a lot.
>>>>
>>>>> Certainly but I have to wonder how out dated the information
>>>>> was for useful warnings. By the time that information
>>>>> became available the weather was nice for cleaning up the
>>>>> destruction. ;~)
>>>>
>>>> Oh, it was useless for warnings, and wasn't intended for them.
>>>> The government of the time was interested in knowing what
>>>> latitude the trade winds were, and how strong, at different
>>>> times of year.
>>>>
>>>> The side effect, tho, is that the tracks of many hurricanes in
>>>> that era can be recreated with reasonable accuracy.
>>>>
>>>>>> And in fairness to the NHC, while they have inflated the
>>>>>> number of hurricanes, they've also become vastly better at
>>>>>> predicting where they're going over the last 20 years.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes but unfortunately, especially along the Texas coast, the
>>>>> weather guys on TV get so exited at the possibility of a
>>>>> cloud becoming a hurricane they almost piss themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Oh hell yes, the TV weatherfolk are useless. Between working
>>>> themselves up into a frenzy beforehand, and then doing stupid
>>>> things when a storm actually shows...I recall a crew up in WPB
>>>> filming either Frances or Jeanne in 2004 - they were under a
>>>> parking deck on the lee side of an office building, and the
>>>> guy goes "we're going to step out here and see what's
>>>> happening", and as he does a sheet of metal siding blows past
>>>> his nose at about 40mph. "ah, I think we'll stay behind the
>>>> building for a while..."
>>>>
>>>>> at leas one buss that caught fire while sitting in gridlock.
>>>>
>>>> I recall that - it was a bus full of old folk from a nursing
>>>> home, many of whom had oxygen bottles. Needless to say, once
>>>> the fire started there was little hope of stopping it.
>>>>
>>>> Never really understood how people got that panicked, either.
>>>> Once you get away from Baytown and the rest of the east Houston
>>>> area, it really doesn't look like much of it is at risk for
>>>> deadly flooding.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>
>>> A few months ago I received a letter from the company that holds
>>> my mortgage informing me that my property is located in a FEMA
>>> designated Special Flood Hazard Area. If I didn't provide proof
>>> of flood insurance by a specific date, they were going to buy
>>> the insurance for me and add the premiums to my monthly payment.
>>
>> I got such a letter from my insurance company in 2005. My Flood
>> insurance was going to increase from $239 a year to $3500 a year.
>> I elected to not renew for a few years. I had an elevation survey
>> done and that dropped to less then $600 2 years later. I was
>> grandfathered in but the insurance co has hearing nothing of it and
>> my attorney friend said we could fight and win but the cost might
>> not be worth it.
>
> I assume that you did not have a mortgage at that point, correct?
Correct, I have not had a mortgage since 1997.
We are really getting out of the little ice age.
They are finding mines and towns that were under ice in Greenland.
Vikings lived there.
The Hudson Bay in Canada used to have
trading ships from England and France come down and exchange goods.
The French fur trappers all traded that way.
The ships that were frozen into the ice when the large 'lake' that
opened into the arctic ocean froze over. Now with the thaw, the ships
are being discovered as treasure troves of timely goods.
If it was always frozen, then trading ships for Hudson Bay would never
have gotten there and Hudson Bay trading company would never have been
there.
The little ice Storm really hit us in 1888. It was winter for two years
long - no spring, summer or fall. Froze cattle on their feet. That was
bad. It is just now backing off from the bad days of back then.
Martin
On 3/15/2015 4:35 PM, Gray_Wolf wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 21:57:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2/24/2015 7:59 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:44:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>>>>> In article <[email protected]>,
>>>>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>>>>>
>>>>> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the Northeast
>>>>> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
>>>>> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the Northeast
>>>>> this month" warming.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been "Normal
>>>> Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was warmer
>>>> in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
>>>> again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was unusual
>>>> to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
>>>> pretty often in the past 10 years.
>>>>
>>>> I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
>>>> process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a real
>>>> sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
>>>> information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything out of
>>>> the ordinary today.
>>>
>>> The evidence says that it's another way of increasing taxes.
>>>
>> Exactly, follow the money.
>
> Yes indeed! I'm very suspicious about anything the government
> promotes. They lie about everything, every time!
>
>
>
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:35:03 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/24/2015 5:40 PM, [email protected] wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:33:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/24/2015 12:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 12:55:38 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>>>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
>>>>> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
>>>>> February).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
>>>>> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
>>>>>
>>>>> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
>>>>> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
>>>>> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
>>>>> service said.
>>>>> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
>>>>> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Records date back to 1902."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
>>>>> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
>>>>> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
>>>>> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
>>>>> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
>>>>> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
>>>>> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
>>>>> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
>>>>> element than something I really need to care about.
>>>>>
>>>>> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
>>>>> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> re: "I don't pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype element than something I really need to care about."
>>>>
>>>> I guess it all depends on where you are and what you do during extreme wind chill events.
>>>>
>>>> For the past few days we've been having "extreme wind chill warnings" with temps in the minus single digits and wind chills in the -20's to -30's.
>>>>
>>>> There is a huge difference from when I am shoveling my deck in the sheltered back yard vs. shoveling the driveway or walking the dog in the full force of the wind. There have been times when I have gone into the backyard just to get a reprieve from the wind and "warm up" a little.
>>>>
>>>> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely dangerous.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.noaa.gov/features/monitoring_0209/coldwinds.html
>>>>
>>> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
>>> up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
>>> forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
>>> form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>
>> Specifically, it's the equivalent temperature at which unprotected
>> skin will freeze. Well, PUT ON A COAT! ;-)
>>
>
>Yeah, I don't think so. It is common to see wind chills that are above
>freezing so nothing is going to freeze. It is simply the greater the
>wind the faster the temperature of something will drop to the "actual"
>temperature. But the meteorologists want us to think otherwise.
The point is that it's the equivalent temperature of bare skin. Don't
do that!
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:44:15 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>>
>>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>>
>> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the Northeast
>> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
>> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the Northeast
>> this month" warming.
>>
>
>
>Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been "Normal
>Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was warmer
>in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
>again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was unusual
>to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
>pretty often in the past 10 years.
>
>I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
>process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a real
>sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
>information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything out of
>the ordinary today.
Proportional control of heating, the swings are very large at first,
but then level out. So is it getting warmer, data say yes, is it
because of mankind, not enough data.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 11:57:47 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Markem wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:06:47 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Markem wrote:
>>>
>>>> The coldest I have ever felt, was on the flightline in North
>>>> Carolina, it was only -10F. But it was snowing, and there was not a
>>>> cloud in the sky.
>>>
>>> Seymore Johson AFB?
>>
>> Seymour Johnson AFB, home of the 4th Tactical Fighter wing.
>>
>> Moto, 4th but 1st, which works out to be "fourth to help ya, first to
>> fuck ya".
>>
>> Close enough on the spelling, yes Jan 75 through July 78
>
>Can't remember the exact dates but I was there somewhere around '73 to '74.
>I was Air Launched Guided Missiles. Still cannot forget that great big
>billboard right outside of the gate near the BUFFs and on the way to the
>bomb dump, that the KKK had put up - white knight on his stallion and all
>that crap - recruiting members. As a northern boy - I just could not
>believe my eyes!
>
>Used to consider the Bijou theater downtown to be one of the cheap treats
>for a weekend. Learned to love HushPuppies the way southerners make them!
>Never learned to appreciate them damned grits - why in the hell would anyone
>want to eat that crap? Did love riding my Triumph at night - through the
>winding roads that followed the Noose (probably spelled incorrectly...)
>River and all of that really cool hanging Spanish Moss. Kinda like some
>sort of movie stuff.
I was a 462xx Weapons mechanic (fancy name for bomb loader). The KKK
sign just out of Smithfield on the way to Raleigh, the one outside the
base burned down before I got there. What I remember is the BBQ joint
out the back gate, saw a news piece about it when Clinton was POTUS.
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the
> local
> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
> February).
I'm with you...I HATE winter. I had hoped that this would be the third
year in a row that we didn't have a freeze but oh, NO...it got down to 31
one night last week. Fortunately, the rest of February and from then on
look good. Until it gets hot. Here in Florida, we have two seasons...
1. Too cold
2. Too hot
I miss the weather - but not much else - in Honolulu. It got down to 52
one time.
--
dadiOH
____________________________
Winters getting colder? Tired of the rat race?
Taxes out of hand? Maybe just ready for a change?
Check it out... http://www.floridaloghouse.net
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
> February).
>
>
>
>
> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar
> year.
>
> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
> service said.
> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>
> Records date back to 1902."
>
>
>
> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in
> the neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so
> bad today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a
> flannel shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke
> up to -20F without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a
> lot. I don't pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more
> of a media hype element than something I really need to care about.
>
> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>
> --
>
> -Mike-
> [email protected]
I'm thinking about going fishing this afternoon. There was a bit of a cold
wind came in last night. If I go fishing I might take a jacket, and I might
not.
DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a
> wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to
> block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not
> "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely
> dangerous.
>
I disagree - in my opinion it is all media hype. We know that it is cold in
the winter and that when the wind blows, it's even worse. We really do not
need the hype of showing even lower temperatures, to know that it's cold out
there. I grew up long before the age of "wind chill factor". Guess what -
we knew it was cold out there and we either dressed for it, or took refuge
in the manners that you describe. We did not need a flunky weatherman to
tell us the exagerated version of how cold it was. Common sense and all
that.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the
>> local on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally
>> better than February).
> --------------------------------------------
> It took me a while to get to SoCal.
>
> Should be about 74F today.
>
Yeahbut your gas prices are causing the creek to rise...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Bob La Londe wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about going fishing this afternoon. There was a bit of
> a cold wind came in last night. If I go fishing I might take a
> jacket, and I might not.
Folks up here are thinking the same way. Rumor has it that the ice is about
2 feet thick on Lake Ontario and other smaller lakes in the area. I guess
that's good for ice fishing...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 2/24/2015 12:54 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
> February).
>
>
>
>
> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
>
> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
> service said.
> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>
> Records date back to 1902."
>
>
>
> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
> element than something I really need to care about.
>
> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>
I am across Lake Ontario from you in Toronto, it has been really cold
here too, but sounds like you are getting the (dis)advantage from the
winds blowing over all that ice.
--
Froz...
The system will be down for 10 days for preventive maintenance.
FrozenNorth wrote:
> I am across Lake Ontario from you in Toronto, it has been really cold
> here too, but sounds like you are getting the (dis)advantage from the
> winds blowing over all that ice.
Yup - but the up side is that despite the snow we have received in February,
we have been spared a lot. Ontario is now 67% frozen over - the first time
since we have been recording weather information. That means we've been hit
by a great deal less Lake Effect snow that what we're accustomed to. If
we'd have received our normal Lake Effect on top of the snow we did receive
this year, it would have been ugly. We're near our annual normal snowfall
right now - without Lake Effect. You guys up there in Toronto can keep all
that cold air you keep sending down to us...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
John McCoy wrote:
> "dadiOH" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Here in Florida, we have
>> two seasons...
>>
>> 1. Too cold
>> 2. Too hot
>
> Pfaugh. The seasons in Florida are "tourist" and "rainy".
>
> John
Geezus John - don't I recall that the day you and I met at that local pub
down there, that it was clearly "Too Hot!"? BTW - I have no idea when I'll
get down there again, but whenever I do, we have to hook up again. I
enjoyed that time.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bob La Londe wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm thinking about going fishing this afternoon. There was a bit of
>> a cold wind came in last night. If I go fishing I might take a
>> jacket, and I might not.
>
> Folks up here are thinking the same way. Rumor has it that the ice is
> about 2 feet thick on Lake Ontario and other smaller lakes in the area. I
> guess that's good for ice fishing...
Yeah, but I would bet those folks will take a jacket.... or a parka. LOL.
Leon wrote:
> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
> up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
> forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
> form make things colder than the actual temperature.
> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
Correct.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Markem wrote:
> The coldest I have ever felt, was on the flightline in North Carolina,
> it was only -10F. But it was snowing, and there was not a cloud in the
> sky.
Seymore Johson AFB?
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> We now know your opinion of "flunky weatherman", but we don't know
> your opinion of NOAA. They don't appear to consider wind chill
> temperatures as hype. Are they "flunky" also?
>
Wind chill does have a real meaning - that was not my point. My point was
the weatherman hyping this to make a more sensational weather report. The
temperature is the temperature. It only takes a modicum of common sense to
know that it's cold out there and that if the wind is blowing, it's going to
affect you more than if it were not.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Bob La Londe wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Bob La Londe wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm thinking about going fishing this afternoon. There was a bit of
>>> a cold wind came in last night. If I go fishing I might take a
>>> jacket, and I might not.
>>
>> Folks up here are thinking the same way. Rumor has it that the ice
>> is about 2 feet thick on Lake Ontario and other smaller lakes in the
>> area. I guess that's good for ice fishing...
>
> Yeah, but I would bet those folks will take a jacket.... or a parka. LOL.
You bet!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On 02/24/2015 4:10 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
...
> Wind chill does have a real meaning - that was not my point. My point was
> the weatherman hyping this to make a more sensational weather report. The
> temperature is the temperature. It only takes a modicum of common sense to
> know that it's cold out there and that if the wind is blowing, it's going to
> affect you more than if it were not.
Well, their job is to protect and part of that is information. There
are a number (I'd guess likely even a majority) who live so insulated
from routine weather and its adverse consequences they've no clue...
--
In article <[email protected]>,
Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>
>Global Warming is soooo 1990's
Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the Northeast
is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the Northeast
this month" warming.
--
-Ed Falk, [email protected]
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
"Puckdropper" <puckdropper(at)yahoo(dot)com> wrote
in message \
> "Mike Marlow" <
> wrote in
>>
>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's
>> an excerpt from the
>> local on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was
>> only marginally better
>> than February).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Syracuse had already broken two cold
>> temperature records this month,
>> and now it's time to add one more: the most
>> days below zero in a
>> calendar year.
>>
>> "This is the 20th time this year that we have
>> dropped below zero,
>> which is an all-time record," the National
>> Weather Service reported.
>> That number might grow with several below-zero
>> days forecast this
>> week, the weather service said.
>> February 2015 will also likely break two other
>> records: coldest month
>> on record and first month in which the
>> temperature never rose above
>> freezing.
>>
>> Records date back to 1902."
>>
>>
>>
>> These statistics are recorded at the airport
>> down in Syracuse. Up
>> here where we live, on any given day we are
>> 5-10 degrees colder than
>> Syracuse, and we certainly get more snow than
>> they do at the airport -
>> usually in the neighborhood of 50% more. It's
>> something when 0
>> degrees seems "not so bad today", and 20 seems
>> downright warm. You go
>> outside in jeans, a flannel shirt, and a
>> windbreaker. I don't know
>> how many mornings I woke up to -20F without
>> windchill factor, this
>> year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
>> pay a bit of attention
>> to windchill - I consider that more of a media
>> hype element than
>> something I really need to care about.
>>
>> And to think - we started off this winter
>> season with a green
>> Christmas... Where is that freakin' Global
>> Warming stuff that I keep
>> hearing about?
>>
>
> Some of these low temperatures are ridiculous.
> My ideal is 20F during
> the day and around 10F at night. It's too bad
> we've wasted all this cold
> with 0F at night and a month of 30-40F. If the
> weather had averaged out,
> it'd have been a really nice year.
>
> I love winter, and think in part it's because I
> have the stuff to deal
> with it. My snow blower isn't that great, but I
> only need it to clear
> the ice rink. If it's too cold for a coat,
> there's always a sweater to
> put on under it. (I took that off this
> morning--too warm. It was 8F and
> I was skating.)
>
> Puckdropper
> --
> Make it to fit, don't make it fit.
Another _good_ thing about winter is, NO BUGS!
;>)}
woodchucker wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 12:54 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green
>> Christmas... Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep
>> hearing about?
>
> Oh quit your whining... your from Syracuse, your supposed to be tough
> to the weather...
>
> :-)
Ok...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
John Grossbohlin wrote:
>
> As the owner of Hunter Mtn ski resort was quoted as saying one time
> "You don't ski naked" when asked about the good turn outs on the
> slope despite the very low wind chill temperatures...
What a stupid question, eh? (tip of the hat to Dave and our other friends
in the great white north...). Imagine that - people sliding down a hill at
what - maybe 20 or 30 mph, and the questioner is asking about wind chill?
Hell - they experience wind chill everytime they go down the damned hill.
Sheese...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Puckdropper wrote:
> I love winter, and think in part it's because I have the stuff to deal
> with it. My snow blower isn't that great, but I only need it to clear
> the ice rink. If it's too cold for a coat, there's always a sweater
> to put on under it. (I took that off this morning--too warm. It was
> 8F and I was skating.)
>
Can't say I really love winter, and for sure - I'm really tired of the zero
and sub-zero temperatures this year, but having said that, my standard outer
wear for this kind of weather is a hooded, zip up sweatshirt and a
windbreaker.(just a standard spring/fall weight windbreaker). I'm just
getting tired of having to wear it in the damned living room...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 10:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>
>> Can't say I really love winter, and for sure - I'm really tired of
>> the zero and sub-zero temperatures this year, but having said that,
>> my standard outer wear for this kind of weather is a hooded, zip up
>> sweatshirt and a windbreaker.(just a standard spring/fall weight
>> windbreaker). I'm just getting tired of having to wear it in the
>> damned living room...
>
> I'm thankful for heated seats and remote starters. My car has an
> excellent heater at -15 too.
Funny you should mention that. My wife and I were just comparing the warm
up times of our two cars. My '06 Sonata will start to throw warm air within
less than a mile of driving, from a cold start in the garage. Her '10 Forte
takes 5 or 6 miles down the road to begin to throw heat. By the time I'm
1.5 miles down the road I can turn the blower on full and be getting full
blown heat - she's still shivering in her car. I have a 6 cylinder in my
Sonata and she has a 4 in her Forte - you'd think hers would warm up
quicker, but that's not the case. Neither of us have heated seats - well,
to be honest, she has a pretty hot seat, but that's a different matter...
She does have remote start though, so she gets to cheat and warm the car up
before leaving.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
>
> "Wind chill" has nothing to do with evaporation, however. There is
> very little water on the surface of the skin in the Winter (my dry
> skin is evidence ;-). OTOH, any evaporation won't just make it feel
> colder it will *make* it colder.
Only to a point though. Wind chill is commonly reported to be 20 degrees
colder than ambient this time of year. Evaporation is not going to lower
temperatures that much when the air is this cold. Cold air does not hold
moisture like warm air does, so evaporation is not the same factor that it
can be in warmer air.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Puckdropper wrote:
>
> I need to rent a thermal IR camera for about a month, or buy a cheap
> android device to use the FLIR pocket model. I bet there's a lot of
> low- hanging fruit that just needs a little help to be seen as an
> issue.
>
I've thought of that very thing myself. We had an energy audit (or whatever
they call it...) done, where they IR'd our home, they created a positive
pressure inside the house, etc. and we came out pretty good. But - when
that old wind howls, it can just flat out be hard to keep the old homestead
warm at 20 below zero - without wind chill crap figured in. Screw the
"effect" or the "feel" of wind chill, but the truth is that wind takes
radiated heat away faster than no wind does. Gets mighty chilly at times...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Markem wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:50:11 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:33:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>> wrote:
>>
>>>> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill
>>>> came up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the
>>>> weather forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any
>>>> way shape or form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>
>>> Specifically, it's the equivalent temperature at which unprotected
>>> skin will freeze. Well, PUT ON A COAT! ;-)
>>
>> As the owner of Hunter Mtn ski resort was quoted as saying one time
>> "You don't ski naked" when asked about the good turn outs on the
>> slope despite the very low wind chill temperatures...
>
> I have seen some naked skiers, but it was a photo shoot.
Please post GIF's...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Markem wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 17:06:47 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Markem wrote:
>>
>>> The coldest I have ever felt, was on the flightline in North
>>> Carolina, it was only -10F. But it was snowing, and there was not a
>>> cloud in the sky.
>>
>> Seymore Johson AFB?
>
> Seymour Johnson AFB, home of the 4th Tactical Fighter wing.
>
> Moto, 4th but 1st, which works out to be "fourth to help ya, first to
> fuck ya".
>
> Close enough on the spelling, yes Jan 75 through July 78
Can't remember the exact dates but I was there somewhere around '73 to '74.
I was Air Launched Guided Missiles. Still cannot forget that great big
billboard right outside of the gate near the BUFFs and on the way to the
bomb dump, that the KKK had put up - white knight on his stallion and all
that crap - recruiting members. As a northern boy - I just could not
believe my eyes!
Used to consider the Bijou theater downtown to be one of the cheap treats
for a weekend. Learned to love HushPuppies the way southerners make them!
Never learned to appreciate them damned grits - why in the hell would anyone
want to eat that crap? Did love riding my Triumph at night - through the
winding roads that followed the Noose (probably spelled incorrectly...)
River and all of that really cool hanging Spanish Moss. Kinda like some
sort of movie stuff.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Mike Marlow
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the
>> local on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally
>> better than February).
>
> You're not alone, Mike...
>
> http://youtu.be/gmiuhGwwbgk
I loved that. Sent the link on to "select" members of my life - careful not
to include any of their wives...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Markem wrote:
>
> I was a 462xx Weapons mechanic (fancy name for bomb loader). The KKK
> sign just out of Smithfield on the way to Raleigh, the one outside the
> base burned down before I got there. What I remember is the BBQ joint
> out the back gate, saw a news piece about it when Clinton was POTUS.
Hey - a Muzzle Fucker! I was 316X1-L. Sidewinders, Sparrows, Shrikes,
Mavericks, Falcons. They called us Missile Weanies at the time. It was
good to be in missiles... Air conditioned shops in the summer, heated in
the winter, never had to work out in the crummy elements. One of my
roomates in the barracks was a Muzzle Fucker too. Nice guy but you just had
to teach them and the 461's (B-B Stackers) so much about life's finer
points - like how to use a fork in the chow hall, etc.
So - you were still there when the F-4's were there. Awesome, eh? The
meanist, most badass jet fighter ever. I used to love driving by the BUFF
alert area on the way to the shop and watching those SAC guys standing guard
around the BUFFs. Used to think to myself - what a shitty job they have!
Was glad to be in TAC.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
John McCoy wrote:
> "Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Geezus John - don't I recall that the day you and I met at that local
>> pub down there, that it was clearly "Too Hot!"? BTW - I have no idea
>> when I'll get down there again, but whenever I do, we have to hook up
>> again. I enjoyed that time.
>
> Indeed I do remember, altho I don't recall it being too hot...
> as I recall it was September-ish, so it was probably rainy.
Perspective is everything. Hot to me was probably cool to you.
>
> Yeah, it'd be fun to get together to talk about stuff again.
>
We'll make it a plan the next time I find my way down there again, or if you
ever find yourself up this way.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Bob La Londe" wrote:
>
>>> I'm thinking about going fishing this afternoon. There was a bit of
>>> a cold wind came in last night. If I go fishing I might take a
>>> jacket, and I might not.
> ---------------------------------------------------
> "Mike Marlow" wrote:
>
>>> Folks up here are thinking the same way. Rumor has it that the ice is
>>> about 2 feet thick on Lake Ontario and other smaller lakes in the area.
>>> I guess that's good for ice fishing...
> --------------------------------------------
> "Bob La Londe" wrote:
>
>> Yeah, but I would bet those folks will take a jacket.... or a parka. LOL.
> ------------------------------------------------
> Western end of Lake Erie is about 30 ft.
>
> Reports indicate the is about 8 ft of ice.
>
> Fishing is good even if temps are below zero.
8 ft of ice on the west end? Wow! I did a little ice fishing on Erie back
in the winter of 80/81, and I don't recall ever drilling more than 3 or 4
feet. With 8 feet they can drive trucks out to the islands for supply runs.
I can't imagine having to drill 8 feet of ice to go fishing though.
Drilling four little holes through 4 feet tuckered me out pretty good.
"Bob La Londe" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Lew Hodgett" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>
>> "Bob La Londe" wrote:
>>
>>>> I'm thinking about going fishing this afternoon. There was a bit of
>>>> a cold wind came in last night. If I go fishing I might take a
>>>> jacket, and I might not.
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> "Mike Marlow" wrote:
>>
>>>> Folks up here are thinking the same way. Rumor has it that the ice is
>>>> about 2 feet thick on Lake Ontario and other smaller lakes in the area.
>>>> I guess that's good for ice fishing...
>> --------------------------------------------
>> "Bob La Londe" wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, but I would bet those folks will take a jacket.... or a parka.
>>> LOL.
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> Western end of Lake Erie is about 30 ft.
>>
>> Reports indicate the is about 8 ft of ice.
>>
>> Fishing is good even if temps are below zero.
>
>
> 8 ft of ice on the west end? Wow! I did a little ice fishing on Erie
> back in the winter of 80/81, and I don't recall ever drilling more than 3
> or 4 feet. With 8 feet they can drive trucks out to the islands for
> supply runs. I can't imagine having to drill 8 feet of ice to go fishing
> though. Drilling four little holes through 4 feet tuckered me out pretty
> good.
FYI I did go fishing. I didn't take a jacket, and I didn't get back until
after dark. I caught fish, and I didn't need to drill no stinking ice.
LOL. I did take some ice to keep my sodas cold though.
Going out again today with a buddy of mine. We'll probably come in after
dark. I'll take a jacket, but only to cut the wind when he lights up the
big motor.
Bob La Londe wrote:
> FYI I did go fishing. I didn't take a jacket, and I didn't get back
> until after dark. I caught fish, and I didn't need to drill no
> stinking ice. LOL. I did take some ice to keep my sodas cold though.
>
> Going out again today with a buddy of mine. We'll probably come in
> after dark. I'll take a jacket, but only to cut the wind when he
> lights up the big motor.
May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Markem wrote:
>
> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not perspire,
> cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the point of soaking
> your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
I have to take respectful exception to that comment. I think a lot of
what's being said here is that we all grew up playing out in the cold and
snow - long before the notion of wind chill became popular, and we survived
it just fine. Now - today - wind chill is bantered about as if it is some
plague upon mankind. Look - we all work up a sweat doing hard work outside
in the wintertime - we don't die from that effort. Too much adoo about
nothing...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
>
> My '13 F150 doesn't get warm until I'm half way home (18mi). I don't
> live in Vermont anymore, either. It doesn't get cold here in GA but
> my truck doesn't want to get warm. Gotta get it into the shop (gotta
> be a bad thermostat - still under warranty).
>
My plow truck - which is now just a yard vehicle, has a 350 in it. Great
motor that just runs forever, can be built to make more power than God ever
thought was necessary, but is a cast iron monster that takes nothing less
than 20 minute of idle time to even think about throwing warm air out of the
vents. And after that - another 20 minutes before you can really feel that
warm air.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Markem wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 23:02:33 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Markem wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not
>>> perspire, cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the
>>> point of soaking your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
>>
>> I have to take respectful exception to that comment. I think a lot
>> of what's being said here is that we all grew up playing out in the
>> cold and snow - long before the notion of wind chill became popular,
>> and we survived it just fine. Now - today - wind chill is bantered
>> about as if it is some plague upon mankind. Look - we all work up a
>> sweat doing hard work outside in the wintertime - we don't die from
>> that effort. Too much adoo about nothing...
>
> But you had shelter to dry off and warm up, survival in cold weather
> with out a house to warm up in is about not getting wet at all.
Come on Mark - people still have places to go into and get out of the
elements. That is no different today than it was when we were coming up.
The fact is that we would spend hours of a day outside in those temperatures
and look - we are still here to talk about it today. Your comment suggests
something different exists today, and I'm going to call Bullshit on that
thought.
If anything - people today spend less time out in those temperatures and
wind exposure, simply because they do less, and what they do do is more
couch/cellphone oriented than what we did as kids. Not to mention that
today, the precious little ones cannot even walk to a bus stop because
stupid parents want the bus to stop every 20 feet to pick up the darlings at
their own mailbox. They are not even experiencing the same degree of
exposure that we did as kids. It has nothing at all to do with the
availablitly of a warm house nearby.
Sorry - I cannot agree with your position on this. We are continuing to
pussify our society and this (IMHO) is just one more example of it.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Dave Balderstone wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, Leon
> <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>
>> If they are going out in
>> the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>> that anyone is going to perspire.
>
> Leon, it's easy to perspire in extreme cold, simply by working too
> hard.
>
> I've hunted deer and elk at -30C with -45 wind chill, and when you're
> plowing through snow drifts and brush, overheating and starting to
> sweat is a very real concern.
>
But Dave - that is such a different thing! You knew that exertion was going
to result in sweat and what the penalty for that would be. That is quite
different from the exagerated, overly hyped up reporting of today's
weatherman. Let's be honest - how many people today really put in the
physical effort in their day to day life - as they wake up at 7:00AM to
prepare for the arduous task of starting their car and heading to work, as
you or the rest of us hunters have experienced in a day out in the field.
You're interjecting a valid point - but it does not really pertain to the
discussion at hand.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Mike Marlow" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Bob La Londe wrote:
>
>> FYI I did go fishing. I didn't take a jacket, and I didn't get back
>> until after dark. I caught fish, and I didn't need to drill no
>> stinking ice. LOL. I did take some ice to keep my sodas cold though.
>>
>> Going out again today with a buddy of mine. We'll probably come in
>> after dark. I'll take a jacket, but only to cut the wind when he
>> lights up the big motor.
>
> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits...
>
LOL.
Markem wrote:
> As to spend hours outside in the cold, yes and I have had the
> frostbite of the toes. Camped in below zero weather too. Staying warm
> in those condtion require staying dry in your under layers. That is as
> it always has been.
>
Yes - it does, but there is also the element of exposure that Leon pointed
out.
> Try reading a bit about cold weather survival. You are heading off in
> an rant about society, I am talking about not getting wet when out in
> the cold and staying warmer. The key is the phrase "no shelter" as to
> dying from exposure, yes it takes time and no body fuel.
I live in an area where we commonly experience sub-zero temperatures
throughout the winter. We have to conduct our daily lives in those
temperatures - with or without windchill considerations. I'm pretty
familiar with the effects of cold temperatures - though to be fair - I've
never camped out in sub-zero temperatures. I was too much of a pussy to do
that. But - I do think we are talking about two different things here. We
do go outside and work in the wintertime doing things like shoveling off our
roof, where we do indeed sweat in our clothing. The fact that we sweat has
nothing at all to do with windchill unless we literally sweat through our
clothing and then radiant heat loss becomes a factor.
Yes - I did head off into a rant, and I'm sorry for that, but I think it is
a part of the hype that we see/hear in the weather reports today. There
seems to be more ill thought through reaction today than is validated by so
many years of past history.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Markem wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 10:56:26 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
> wrote:
>
>>
>> And you are not going to freeze to death even if you were butt naked
>> in 40 degree weather with a wind chill of 28 degrees.
>>
>>
> But you are going to be damn cold. The cops will probably show up and
> take you off to get an orange jump suit.
Or... the neighbor's wife is going to be telling him how much she liked the
view into your yard today...
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Markem wrote:
>
> It pertains to my point, you want to stay warm. Dave probably slows
> himself in that situation and adjust his gear to allow heat to escape,
> to avoid sweating.
>
> As far as weatherman are concern "It's Entertainment".
I think we are saying the same thing but somehow missing each other.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
"Leon"
> A few years before that when I was still working
> automotive we had vehicles being towed in for
> overheating. The coolant was not mixed strong
> enough to prevent the radiators from freezing.
In Flin Flon Manitoba there is an old
freight hauling tractor that was used
on the ice road in winter to haul
supplies to the mine. It is at the FF
museum. The sign on it says they used
kerosene in the cooling system because
it was so cold up there and they had no
such thing as modern day antifreeze.
Those must have been tough days!
-60F ! Yes, yes, I admit, I did make a
motorcycle trip there back in '07...and
please don't ask me why, I don't know...;>)}
[email protected] wrote:
> My temperature gauge has been set on "freezing" all Winter. Oh, you
> mean the truck's? It's very slow to come up to temperature.
So is the 350 in my truck, but man - can that baby do some work!
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
Ed Pawlowski wrote:
> On 2/26/2015 12:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
>>
>> If anything - people today spend less time out in those temperatures
>> and wind exposure, simply because they do less, and what they do do
>> is more couch/cellphone oriented than what we did as kids. Not to
>> mention that today, the precious little ones cannot even walk to a
>> bus stop because stupid parents want the bus to stop every 20 feet
>> to pick up the darlings at their own mailbox. They are not even
>> experiencing the same degree of exposure that we did as kids. It
>> has nothing at all to do with the availablitly of a warm house
>> nearby.
>
> Not only does the bus stop at every house, I see parents driving the
> kids from the garage to the end of the driveway to wait for the bus.
> And this is in 40 degree weather with the sun shining..
But the wind chill... Well that, and "precious" can't possibly dress for
the weather - that wouldn't be fashionable.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
[email protected] wrote:
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2015 20:39:26 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> My temperature gauge has been set on "freezing" all Winter. Oh, you
>>> mean the truck's? It's very slow to come up to temperature.
>>
>> So is the 350 in my truck, but man - can that baby do some work!
>
> Mine is a 5L. I don't remember it being that slow to heat last year
> but I wasn't on the drugs that a screwing with my metabolism, either.
Maybe a stupid question, but you have made sure that your radiator is
properly filled (and the overflow tank), haven't you? Low coolant levels
will result in reduced heat output.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 22:10:17 -0400, krw wrote:
>>Agreed - much better to trust the oil and coal companies :-)
>
> Though you may not really believe it, you're right. At least they
> provide a good product for a fair price.
You are just pulling my chain, right? You can't possibly really believe
that. Next thing I know you'll be telling me about the benevolence of
the pharmaceutical companies :-).
On 2/24/2015 1:23 PM, Leon wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 11:54 AM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
>> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
>> February).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
>> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar
>> year.
>>
>> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero,
>> which is
>> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
>> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
>> service said.
>> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
>> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above
>> freezing.
>>
>> Records date back to 1902."
>>
<snip>
>> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green
>> Christmas...
>> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
It is all about you.
It would help if you had some understanding of the jet stream and how it
effects the weather. What happens is that when the polar jet stream
loops south it brings arctic frigid air down with it.
All weather is driven by temperature differences, and so is the jet
stream. As the arctic warms and sea ice melts, the arctic further warms
as dark water absorbs more of the suns heat than the far more reflective
sea ice. Warmer arctic waters lead to a less powerful jetstream, one
that because it is weaker wanders more. And when it wanders and loops
and even breaks off "polar vortexes", Syracuse gets a drubbing.
Sea ice is at such lows as to open up the northwest passage. That can't
be denied. The jetstream has been very loopy.
People that expect a 1 degree increase to be absolutely uniform across
the planet are clueless. Weather is a complex system driven by
temperature differences. Expect more erratic weather, in fact most
Republicans now believe the climate is changing:
http://environment.yale.edu/climate-communication/article/republican-views-on-climate-change
>>
> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
--
xyz
John McCoy wrote:
> "Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in
> news:[email protected]:
>
>> Which is to say, folks agree the Climate is changing, NOT that those
>> nasty homo sapiens are causing it. Climate change is a normal part
>> of the history of the planet.
> Well, what you say is true. It's possible that Man is a cause
> of climate change, in part or in total, and it's possible he
> isn't. It's also possible that climate change may be beneficial
> in some ways, or it may not.
I was overlooking a beautiful lake the other day, and I thought
to myself, if people could build housing and subdivisions literally on
top of the lake, it would already be done.
>
> But just suspose for a moment that Man is responsible in part
> for climate change, and that the change is, mostly, harmful.
> Would it not be wise to try and understand those causes, and
> implement ways to correct them?
>
> John
>
On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 14:15:08 -0500, Leon wrote:
> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up more
> from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to fix
> something that takes care of itself. ;~)
Lots of things are "said". How about a reference to a climate expert?
Doug Winterburn wrote:
> On 04/28/2015 12:24 PM, Bill wrote:
>> John McCoy wrote:
>>> "Dr. Deb" <[email protected]> wrote in
>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>
>>>> Which is to say, folks agree the Climate is changing, NOT that those
>>>> nasty homo sapiens are causing it. Climate change is a normal part
>>>> of the history of the planet.
>>> Well, what you say is true. It's possible that Man is a cause
>>> of climate change, in part or in total, and it's possible he
>>> isn't. It's also possible that climate change may be beneficial
>>> in some ways, or it may not.
>>
>>
>> I was overlooking a beautiful lake the other day, and I thought
>> to myself, if people could build housing and subdivisions literally on
>> top of the lake, it would already be done.
>>
> Already has been done - a long time ago to present and into the future:
>
> http://www.seattleafloat.com/
>
True images of beauty...
>>
>
>
On 4/28/2015 7:25 PM, Larry Blanchard wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Apr 2015 14:15:08 -0500, Leon wrote:
>
>> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
>> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up more
>> from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to fix
>> something that takes care of itself. ;~)
>
> Lots of things are "said". How about a reference to a climate expert?
>
----
Wasting resources on symbolically fighting ever present climate change
is no substitute for prudence. Nor is the assumption that the earthâs
climate reached a point of perfection in the middle of the twentieth
century a sign of intelligence.
Richard Lindzen - atmospheric physicist
----
Just the fact that the alarmists went from global cooling, to global
warming, and now to climate change in just the last 50 years makes it
obvious they have no clue what they are talking about.
Jack - expert on bogus religious zealots and the socialist pukes taking
advantage of their misguided convictions...
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
Swingman wrote:
> On 4/28/2015 2:24 PM, Bill wrote:
>> I was overlooking a beautiful lake the other day, and I thought
>> to myself, if people could build housing and subdivisions literally on
>> top of the lake, it would already be done.
>
> It has.
>
> http://www.tripchinaguide.com/public/upload/photo/aberdeen-floating-village/img_508_d20131008104752.jpg
>
>
> I saw it 50 years ago.
>
A friend of mine used to say that anytime there is a "conflict" between
man and nature, especially animals, the animals lose. He sided with
nature believing that people are arrogant.
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 09:21:48 -0400, Jack wrote:
>> Lots of things are "said". How about a reference to a climate expert?
>>
> ----
> Wasting resources on symbolically fighting ever present climate change
> is no substitute for prudence. Nor is the assumption that the earthâs
> climate reached a point of perfection in the middle of the twentieth
> century a sign of intelligence.
>
> Richard Lindzen - atmospheric physicist
John Wallace of the University of Washington agreed with Lindzen that
progress in climate change science had been exaggerated, but said there
are "relatively few scientists who are as skeptical of the whole thing as
Dick Lindzen is."
DerbyDad03 wrote:
>
> That clip includes the 2 of my 3 biggest fears: heights and water.
> All it needed was a big snarling dog and I probably would have
> crapped my pants. ;-)
I watch these things and my stomach does somersaults just as if I were
actually there.
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 at 10:05:25 AM UTC-4, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That clip includes the 2 of my 3 biggest fears: heights and water.
>>> All it needed was a big snarling dog and I probably would have
>>> crapped my pants. ;-)
>>
>> I watch these things and my stomach does somersaults just as if I
>> were actually there.
>>
>
> ...and you also lean back in your chair, right? BTDT
I do - and I usually mutter... "Jesus!..."
--
-Mike-
[email protected]
On Wed, 29 Apr 2015 08:09:54 -0500, Leon wrote:
>>> Perhaps not. It has been said that hurricanes are more powerful and
>>> more frequent because the sky's are clearer and the oceans heat up
>>> more from more unfiltered sun lightas a result. This is us trying to
>>> fix something that takes care of itself. ;~)
>>
>> Lots of things are "said". How about a reference to a climate expert?
>>
>>
>
> This is a case of putting 2+2 together.... common sense, I have heard it
> on the weather channel and or Discovery channel also. But seriously this
> makes much more sense than most other claims about the atmosphere.
In other words, no expert in the field that has made that claim :-).
I think John McCoy did a good job of explaining the complexities. Your
logic is just a little too simple.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:33:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/24/2015 12:23 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
>> On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 12:55:38 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
>>> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
>>> February).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
>>> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
>>>
>>> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
>>> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
>>> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
>>> service said.
>>> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
>>> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>>>
>>> Records date back to 1902."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
>>> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
>>> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
>>> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
>>> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
>>> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
>>> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
>>> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
>>> element than something I really need to care about.
>>>
>>> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
>>> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>>>
>>
>> re: "I don't pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype element than something I really need to care about."
>>
>> I guess it all depends on where you are and what you do during extreme wind chill events.
>>
>> For the past few days we've been having "extreme wind chill warnings" with temps in the minus single digits and wind chills in the -20's to -30's.
>>
>> There is a huge difference from when I am shoveling my deck in the sheltered back yard vs. shoveling the driveway or walking the dog in the full force of the wind. There have been times when I have gone into the backyard just to get a reprieve from the wind and "warm up" a little.
>>
>> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely dangerous.
>>
>> http://www.noaa.gov/features/monitoring_0209/coldwinds.html
>>
>When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
>up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
>forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
>form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
Specifically, it's the equivalent temperature at which unprotected
skin will freeze. Well, PUT ON A COAT! ;-)
On Mon, 16 Mar 2015 00:23:11 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard
<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 16:35:05 -0500, Gray_Wolf wrote:
>
>> Yes indeed! I'm very suspicious about anything the government promotes.
>> They lie about everything, every time!
>
>Agreed - much better to trust the oil and coal companies :-)
Though you may not really believe it, you're right. At least they
provide a good product for a fair price. Government does neither.
On 2/24/2015 10:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>
> Can't say I really love winter, and for sure - I'm really tired of the zero
> and sub-zero temperatures this year, but having said that, my standard outer
> wear for this kind of weather is a hooded, zip up sweatshirt and a
> windbreaker.(just a standard spring/fall weight windbreaker). I'm just
> getting tired of having to wear it in the damned living room...
>
I'm thankful for heated seats and remote starters. My car has an
excellent heater at -15 too.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 23:54:05 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Ed Pawlowski wrote:
>> On 2/24/2015 10:34 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Can't say I really love winter, and for sure - I'm really tired of
>>> the zero and sub-zero temperatures this year, but having said that,
>>> my standard outer wear for this kind of weather is a hooded, zip up
>>> sweatshirt and a windbreaker.(just a standard spring/fall weight
>>> windbreaker). I'm just getting tired of having to wear it in the
>>> damned living room...
>>
>> I'm thankful for heated seats and remote starters. My car has an
>> excellent heater at -15 too.
>
>Funny you should mention that. My wife and I were just comparing the warm
>up times of our two cars. My '06 Sonata will start to throw warm air within
>less than a mile of driving, from a cold start in the garage. Her '10 Forte
>takes 5 or 6 miles down the road to begin to throw heat. By the time I'm
>1.5 miles down the road I can turn the blower on full and be getting full
>blown heat - she's still shivering in her car. I have a 6 cylinder in my
>Sonata and she has a 4 in her Forte - you'd think hers would warm up
>quicker, but that's not the case.
My '13 F150 doesn't get warm until I'm half way home (18mi). I don't
live in Vermont anymore, either. It doesn't get cold here in GA but
my truck doesn't want to get warm. Gotta get it into the shop (gotta
be a bad thermostat - still under warranty).
>Neither of us have heated seats - well,
>to be honest, she has a pretty hot seat, but that's a different matter...
>She does have remote start though, so she gets to cheat and warm the car up
>before leaving.
I suppose you keep her remote handy. ;-)
Remote starters were illegal in VT, or more accurately, using them was
illegal. Just more evidence that the state is nuts.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 23:02:33 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Markem wrote:
>
>>
>> Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not perspire,
>> cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the point of soaking
>> your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
>
>I have to take respectful exception to that comment. I think a lot of
>what's being said here is that we all grew up playing out in the cold and
>snow - long before the notion of wind chill became popular, and we survived
>it just fine. Now - today - wind chill is bantered about as if it is some
>plague upon mankind. Look - we all work up a sweat doing hard work outside
>in the wintertime - we don't die from that effort. Too much adoo about
>nothing...
But you had shelter to dry off and warm up, survival in cold weather
with out a house to warm up in is about not getting wet at all.
On 2/25/2015 3:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
> On 2/24/2015 8:56 PM, Leon wrote:
>> On 2/24/2015 8:21 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>> >
>>> If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
>>> will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
>>> ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
>>> Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
>>> hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
>>> water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
>>> evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
>>
>> But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
>> don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
>> cold wind.
>>
> But people do perspire, and if perspiring skin is exposed to the wind,
> the resulting evaporation will cool the person off. It's an actual
> cooling effect, and under the right conditions can cool the skin below
> the ambient air temperature.
>
Jeez... ;~) Yes people perspire, but typically only when it is warm
enough that their bodies need to be cooled. If they are going out in
the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
that anyone is going to perspire. They might if dressed too heavily but
then where is no wind inside all that clothing, otherwise they would not
be perspiring.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:33:00 -0600, Markem <[email protected]>
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:24:59 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>wrote:
>
>>On 2/25/2015 3:30 AM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>> On 2/24/2015 8:56 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>> On 2/24/2015 8:21 PM, Just Wondering wrote:
>>>>> On 2/24/2015 2:33 PM, Leon wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>>>> >
>>>>> If the thing being affected by the wind has liquid water on it, the wind
>>>>> will cause the water to evaporate, causing it to cool even below the
>>>>> ambient temperature. That's how evaporative (swamp) coolers work.
>>>>> Before cars had air conditioners, my dad had a canvas water bag he would
>>>>> hang in front of the car's radiator. As he drove down the road, the
>>>>> water would slowly seep through the sides of the bag, and the wind would
>>>>> evaporate the water from the surface and cool the water in the bag.
>>>>
>>>> But wind chill is only a human "touchy feeley" thing. So most people
>>>> don't douse themselves with water as they get ready to go out into the
>>>> cold wind.
>>>>
>>> But people do perspire, and if perspiring skin is exposed to the wind,
>>> the resulting evaporation will cool the person off. It's an actual
>>> cooling effect, and under the right conditions can cool the skin below
>>> the ambient air temperature.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Jeez... ;~) Yes people perspire, but typically only when it is warm
>>enough that their bodies need to be cooled. If they are going out in
>>the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>>that anyone is going to perspire. They might if dressed too heavily but
>>then where is no wind inside all that clothing, otherwise they would not
>>be perspiring.
>
>Shovel snow or run a snowblower you will probably sweat not perspire,
>cold weather common sense if you are sweating to the point of soaking
>your clothes, you are going to die with no shelter.
Having lived in Vermont for almost 15 years, I can say with reasonable
confidence that you do *not* want be sweating while shoveling snow, or
anything else when it's well below zero. There is a reason one
dresses in layers and it's not because layers are somehow warmer.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 11:48:22 -0500, "Mike Marlow"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Markem wrote:
>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 18:50:11 -0500, "John Grossbohlin"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 15:33:11 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill
>>>>> came up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the
>>>>> weather forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any
>>>>> way shape or form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>>>>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>>>>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>>>
>>>> Specifically, it's the equivalent temperature at which unprotected
>>>> skin will freeze. Well, PUT ON A COAT! ;-)
>>>
>>> As the owner of Hunter Mtn ski resort was quoted as saying one time
>>> "You don't ski naked" when asked about the good turn outs on the
>>> slope despite the very low wind chill temperatures...
>>
>> I have seen some naked skiers, but it was a photo shoot.
>
>Please post GIF's...
DAGS ;>
or
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=&as_epq=naked+skiers&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&tbs=&as_filetype=&as_rights=
On 2/24/2015 7:36 PM, Edward A. Falk wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet> wrote:
>>>
>> Global Warming is soooo 1990's
>
> Look for a temperature anomoly map. While it's true that the Northeast
> is getting slammed, most of the planet is currently hotter than
> normal. That's why it's called "global" warming and not "the Northeast
> this month" warming.
>
Well you can be picky, take a look at Antarctica. It has been "Normal
Cold" in SE Texas for the past 10~15 years. In the 90's it was warmer
in the winter than normal but it has returned to record setting lows
again as it was in the 60's, 70's, and 80's. In the 90's it was unusual
to see temps drop to the 30's in Houston. I have seen it in the 20's
pretty often in the past 10 years.
I think the warming thoughts are simply a result of being able to
process way too much information, with computers, and not getting a real
sense of what is going on. I suspect that had we had the same
information and computers 200 years ago we would not see anything out of
the ordinary today.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2015 19:29:20 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
wrote:
>On 2/24/2015 5:36 PM, Max wrote:
>> On 2/24/2015 1:38 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
>>> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a
>>>> wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to
>>>> block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not
>>>> "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely
>>>> dangerous.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I disagree - in my opinion it is all media hype. We know that it is
>>> cold in
>>> the winter and that when the wind blows, it's even worse. We really
>>> do not
>>> need the hype of showing even lower temperatures, to know that it's
>>> cold out
>>> there. I grew up long before the age of "wind chill factor". Guess
>>> what -
>>> we knew it was cold out there and we either dressed for it, or took
>>> refuge
>>> in the manners that you describe. We did not need a flunky weatherman to
>>> tell us the exagerated version of how cold it was. Common sense and all
>>> that.
>>>
>>
>> Common sense isn't as common as it used to be. ;-)
>>
>
>It is still common, it's just that a person with common sense 40 years
>ago would look like a genius by comparison today.
>The standards for the common sense rating have been dumbed down so that
>one one will be offended. Give that dummy a trophy!
Here's your sign!
On Wed, 25 Feb 2015 19:24:59 -0600, Leon <lcb11211@swbelldotnet>
>Jeez... ;~) Yes people perspire, but typically only when it is warm
>enough that their bodies need to be cooled. If they are going out in
>the cold, say 40 degrees and the wind chill is 28, I seriously doubt
>that anyone is going to perspire. They might if dressed too heavily but
>then where is no wind inside all that clothing, otherwise they would not
>be perspiring.
People perspire all the time including in winter when they're wearing
winter clothing.
It sounds like you're talking about visible sweat.
On 2/24/2015 4:05 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> Leon wrote:
>
>> When I was in my college physics class the subject of wind chill came
>> up. It was pretty much a laughing matter as far as the weather
>> forecasters were concerned. Wind chill does not in any way shape or
>> form make things colder than the actual temperature.
>> What wind chill really does is cool things down faster to what the
>> actual temperature is rather than if there was no wind at all.
>
> Correct.
>
Even 42 years ago.. ;~)
On 2/24/2015 3:49 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:
> On Tuesday, February 24, 2015 at 3:40:25 PM UTC-5, Mike Marlow wrote:
>> DerbyDad03 wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Having spent a year within 60 miles of the arctic circle on the end a
>>> wide open peninsula with nothing except a couple of buildings to
>>> block the wind, I can, without a doubt, state that wind chill is not
>>> "media hype". It is not only very uncomfortable, but extremely
>>> dangerous.
>>>
>>
>> I disagree - in my opinion it is all media hype. We know that it is cold in
>> the winter and that when the wind blows, it's even worse. We really do not
>> need the hype of showing even lower temperatures, to know that it's cold out
>> there. I grew up long before the age of "wind chill factor". Guess what -
>> we knew it was cold out there and we either dressed for it, or took refuge
>> in the manners that you describe. We did not need a flunky weatherman to
>> tell us the exagerated version of how cold it was. Common sense and all
>> that.
>>
>> --
>>
>> -Mike-
>> [email protected]
>
> You call it hype, I call it doing us a favor.
>
> They can tell me it's 5 below with winds of 15MPH or they can tell me it's 5 below with a wind chill temperature of -26. I thank them for doing the math for me. The fact is, at 5 below with winds of 15MPH, it's going to feel like -26, not -5 or -40, so now I know to dress for -26, not -5 or -40.
>
> Of course, we could use AccuWeather's RealFeel®:
>
> "The AccuWeather RealFeel® ... uses multiple factors including the temperature, humidity, cloud cover, sun intensity, and wind to explain how hot (or cold) it feels outside."
>
> With that many variables, I'd be willing to tag that as hype. :-)
>
> I also tag terms like Snowmageddon, Snowpocalypse, and Snowzilla as hype.
>
> We now know your opinion of "flunky weatherman", but we don't know your opinion of NOAA. They don't appear to consider wind chill temperatures as hype. Are they "flunky" also?
>
> From: http://www.crh.noaa.gov/ddc/?n=windchill
>
> "Frostbite Threshold: For the first time, the wind chill temperatures include specific threshold values that provide specific warning of time-to-frostbite at given levels of wind chill. For example, a temperature of 5 degrees Fahrenheit and a wind speed of 30 mph equal a wind chill of -19, which will produce frostbite in 30 minutes. The chart also shows how frostbite will occur sooner if the temperature is lower or the wind speed higher. Since it is the responsibility of the National Weather Service to help protect lives, this is an important service to the American people."
>
Feels like, real feel.... to who in particular would this apply to? It
is a feeling not shared by all.
Over weight people are naturally better insulated than skinny people.
Put two equally filled and equal temperature glasses of water out in 30F
temperatures, one protected from the wind, one in a 30 mph wind.
The one in the wind will drop in temperature more quickly but will not
end up being a lower temperature than the one that is protected from the
wind after 30 minutes.
On 2/24/2015 12:54 PM, Mike Marlow wrote:
> I'm about fed up with winter this year! Here's an excerpt from the local
> on-line newspaper... (BTW - January was only marginally better than
> February).
>
>
>
>
> "Syracuse had already broken two cold temperature records this month, and
> now it's time to add one more: the most days below zero in a calendar year.
>
> "This is the 20th time this year that we have dropped below zero, which is
> an all-time record," the National Weather Service reported. That number
> might grow with several below-zero days forecast this week, the weather
> service said.
> February 2015 will also likely break two other records: coldest month on
> record and first month in which the temperature never rose above freezing.
>
> Records date back to 1902."
>
>
>
> These statistics are recorded at the airport down in Syracuse. Up here
> where we live, on any given day we are 5-10 degrees colder than Syracuse,
> and we certainly get more snow than they do at the airport - usually in the
> neighborhood of 50% more. It's something when 0 degrees seems "not so bad
> today", and 20 seems downright warm. You go outside in jeans, a flannel
> shirt, and a windbreaker. I don't know how many mornings I woke up to -20F
> without windchill factor, this year - but it sure seems like a lot. I don't
> pay a bit of attention to windchill - I consider that more of a media hype
> element than something I really need to care about.
>
> And to think - we started off this winter season with a green Christmas...
> Where is that freakin' Global Warming stuff that I keep hearing about?
>
Oh quit your whining... your from Syracuse, your supposed to be tough to
the weather...
:-)
--
Jeff