Table Saw dust collection questions

The inlet on my saw is on the side of the cabinet. The floor of the
cabinet is sloped toward the inlet, and, in theory, should funnel the
dust to the inlet. However, it just doesn't work. I've opened the
motor cover to find the dust is a foot deep except just in front of the
inlet. I'm kind of concerned, as it has been deep enough to pack
around the motor. I don't expect it to pickup all the dust, but the
amount left in the cabinet after a small project can nearly fill my 30
gal separator on the DC! The table saw is the weak link in my effort
to get the most out of the DC. I guess I'm on a mission to create a
simple solution that will at least prevent the dust from building up so
much in the cabinet. Thanks, --dave
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
> >a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
> >other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
> >just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands
> >and knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
> >often.
>
> What happens if you just leave it alone? My contractor's saw has some
> sawdust that has accumulated around the sides, but it acts as a dam to
> funnel the new stuff to the dc inlet. It does not get any bigger that what
> is already there. I suspect you have the same situation.
>
> Given the aerodynamics of a saw cabinet, it is not possible to grab every
> little bit of dust that gets under the top. Once you get to the level of
> equilibrium, it will get it as it flows. Try just leaving it alone for a
> while.

Plugging up all the holes was my first failed attempt, and an exercise
in futility. I duct taped most of the outside openings, except the
slot in the front for the tilt. I soon realised there are many holes
between the top of the cabinet and the bottom castings on the table,
many I can almost put my hand through. I considerd spray foaming
these, but think there must be a better, simpler solution. I even
considered sealing off everything in the cabinet and adding some holes
in the cabinet opposite the DC port to provide sort of a "jet stream"
for makeup air to blow across the bottom of the cabinet and into the DC
port, but haven't had the guts to drill holes in my new saw cabinet
(yet). The cabinet already has a floor that tilts toward the DC port,
but has not proved effective at all. --dave
Phisherman wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:01:06 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
> >>a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
> >>other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
> >>just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands
> >>and knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
> >>often.
> >
> >What happens if you just leave it alone? My contractor's saw has some
> >sawdust that has accumulated around the sides, but it acts as a dam to
> >funnel the new stuff to the dc inlet. It does not get any bigger that what
> >is already there. I suspect you have the same situation.
> >
> >Given the aerodynamics of a saw cabinet, it is not possible to grab every
> >little bit of dust that gets under the top. Once you get to the level of
> >equilibrium, it will get it as it flows. Try just leaving it alone for a
> >while.
> >
>
> There are usually lots of holes/spaces inside a cabinet saw that
> decreases the DC effectiveness. You can try sealing up some of the
> spaces. I made two plugs, made from pieces of foam glued to
> fiberboard. These plugs fit into the tilt and blade riser slots and
> helped a lot. Of course, these plugs fall out if you move the blade
> too much, but the tilt remains in place most of the time. You might
> also consider putting a slant board inside the cabinet that tilts
> toward the DC port. Overall, there are more nooks and crannies inside
> a cabinet table saw than other machines. I hand clean mine out a few
> times a year.

Leon, your probably right, I may be getting a little AR here, I just
thought I could come up with a simple solution that would work at least
reasonably well. Your right about plugging all the holes though. The
DC does need make up air to move sawdust. My challenge has been
focusing the makeup air to carry the sawdust to the DC port. The way
the saw is designed now, the makeup air comes from all the openings at
the top of the cabinet and flows to the DC port without picking up all
the dust at the floor of the cabinet along the way. I'm thinking if the
makeup air could come from below the dust pile, or just across the top
of the floor of the saw, it should be able to carry most of the dust
out of the machine. --dave
Leon wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Plugging up all the holes was my first failed attempt, and an exercise
> > in futility. I duct taped most of the outside openings, except the
> > slot in the front for the tilt. I soon realised there are many holes
> > between the top of the cabinet and the bottom castings on the table,
> > many I can almost put my hand through. I considerd spray foaming
> > these, but think there must be a better, simpler solution. I even
> > considered sealing off everything in the cabinet and adding some holes
> > in the cabinet opposite the DC port to provide sort of a "jet stream"
> > for makeup air to blow across the bottom of the cabinet and into the DC
> > port, but haven't had the guts to drill holes in my new saw cabinet
> > (yet). The cabinet already has a floor that tilts toward the DC port,
> > but has not proved effective at all. --dave
> > Phisherman wrote:
> >> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:01:06 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
>
>
> You have to have air flow. Plugging too many holes will hinder you more
> than help. Plug all the holes and you will collect no dust.

I've been in the shop most of the day so far trying out different ideas
to make the TS dust collection work and I think I've come up with
something that just may be the ticket. Although I don't want to go
into to much detail yet, results seem promising but it definately needs
refined. Once I get it to work better, I'll post the results. On the
plus side, the contraption could be made easily with some scraps, it
won't require sealing any holes in the cabinet, and could possibly be
adapted to work well on contractor saws. So far, I've been able to
dump 20 gallons of sawdust through the throat and the DC has picked up
nearly all of it. However, I haven't actually tried it with the saw in
use yet.
If nothing else, I may just adopt swingman's patented system. Plenty
of sticks around here to use! :) --dave

Swingman wrote:
> "Leon" wrote in message
>
> > I think you are being a bit AR here.
>
> Sawdust! ... from sawing wood in a woodshop!?
>
> I mean, Lord have mercy ... what's the world coming to when things aren't
> perfect, like they are on TV?
>
> > I have the exact same machines, dust
> > collects in the saw not the shop and who cares from there.
> > It beats scooping the saw out with a dust pan.
>
> My Unisaw does a pretty decent job of funneling the sawdust to the port, but
> every once in a great while I have to invoke my patented "two stage" dust
> collection system:
>
> ... poke a stick down its throat and coax some of it toward its doom.
>
> --
> www.e-woodshop.net
> Last update: 12/25/06

I used some of those magnetic sheets -- little ones are used for
refrigerator magnets. You can strategically place these to cove the
tilt and riser slots (well 90%). Seems to work ok -- and they are
easily moved when you need to tilt the saw.

On Dec 31, 9:59 am, Phisherman <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:01:06 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >>I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
> >>a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
> >>other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
> >>just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands
> >>and knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
> >>often.
>
> >What happens if you just leave it alone? My contractor's saw has some
> >sawdust that has accumulated around the sides, but it acts as a dam to
> >funnel the new stuff to the dc inlet. It does not get any bigger that what
> >is already there. I suspect you have the same situation.
>
> >Given the aerodynamics of a saw cabinet, it is not possible to grab every
> >little bit of dust that gets under the top. Once you get to the level of
> >equilibrium, it will get it as it flows. Try just leaving it alone for a
> >while.There are usually lots of holes/spaces inside a cabinet saw that
> decreases the DC effectiveness. You can try sealing up some of the
> spaces. I made two plugs, made from pieces of foam glued to
> fiberboard. These plugs fit into the tilt and blade riser slots and
> helped a lot. Of course, these plugs fall out if you move the blade
> too much, but the tilt remains in place most of the time. You might
> also consider putting a slant board inside the cabinet that tilts
> toward the DC port. Overall, there are more nooks and crannies inside
> a cabinet table saw than other machines. I hand clean mine out a few
> times a year.

Yea, I've been pretty close to burying the motor completely. This is
kinda whay I started experimenting with it today. So far, I've been
able to effectively remove 20 gal of dust from the machine by poring
the dust down the throat in less than 10 minutes time with only a
couple of handfulls of dust left in the cabinet. (I did clog the whole
thing up by dumping a whole 3 gallon bucket down there at once, but
that is way more dust than the blade could create in a few seconds
anyway.) In theory, this is working! It's just been easier to try and
mimic creating gallons of dust by pouring it down there rather than
ripping up a bunch of wood just for testing. However, I think I'm in
the ballpark close enough now to try testing it by ripping some stock,
so in a few minutes I'm gonna fire up the TS to see what happens for
real. This may sound silly, but I think what I've created is just a
small downdraft system that fits into the saw cabinet and directs the
makeup air to pickup the dust on the way to the port. Simple concept,
but it's working!! I'll report back soon with real world results.
--dave


Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > So far, I've been able to
> > dump 20 gallons of sawdust through the throat and the DC has picked up
> > nearly all of it. However, I haven't actually tried it with the saw in
> > use yet.
>
> Dumping down the throat is a bit different than having a spinning blade toss
> around the dust. Unless the motor is getting buried, leave well enough
> alone.

OK, here's what seems to be working the best so far. I've pretty much
made a small downdraft in the bottom of my cabinet saw by putting a
piece of plywood with holes and a "funnel" in the cabinet base. It goes
something like this, from the bottom up:
The factory floor of the saw slopes toward the DC port. The edges
of the facory floor were sealed up with duct tape. I then took a piece
of plywood about the same size square as the facory floor and mounted
it just above the DC port and sealed it up with duct tape (Again, think
downdraft table). Two blocks were added on one side between the two
floors to keep the plywood level instead of angled like the factory
floor.
I then drilled a series of 5 3/4" evenly spaced holes right down
the center of the plywood directly inline with the DC port. I tried
just using pegboard, a series of 1" holes in plywood and a series of
1/2" holes in plywood. It seemed anything less than 3/4" would just
clog, and too many 1" holes would lessen the suction to the point where
it just didn't work either. I may refine the number and size of holes
a little, but I think 3/4" is a good start between keeping good suction
and not to small as to clog.
I then cut two pieces of plywood and put them in the cabinet to
form a "V". They basically create a slope (or funnel) on either side
of the cabinet to direct the dust toward the 5 holes I drilled in the
plywood.
I just finished ripping a bunch of wood into about 400 lf of 1/4"
pieces to check how this would perform in real world use. The cabinet
only has about a quart or so of dust in the bottom around the holes and
has seemed to stabilized there. However, some dust did gather on the
outsides of the funnel where there is no holes for dust collection. I
need to refine this a litle yet to keep dust out of those areas (more
duct tape??)
In any case, I'm gonna look over Bill Pentz site this eve (between
beers) and see if there is any ideas to refine this thing further. I 'd
guess the best DC would be a shroud that would fit around the blade,
but it just doesn't seem possible with my saw. As it is though, I've
managed to make great progress in a few hours with just 3 pieces of
plywood and some duct tape. Will report back with future refinements
and some pics soon. Happy New Year! --dave




Dave Jackson wrote:
> I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
> a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
> other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
> just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands and
> knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
> often. It's made no difference as to the legnth of the run to the DC
> either, I've had it down to 6' and the dust still settles. Anyway, it's my
> mission this week to figure something out that will prevent this from
> happening. Questions for the group:
> Anyone else have poor dust collection on their cabinet saw?
> What kind/brand TS and what cfm DC are you using?
> Any other details how you fixed the problem would also be helpful.
> I have a few ideas to fix the problem, and will be "field testing" them this
> week to see if any really work. Thanks, --dave.

B A R R Y wrote:
> Pat Barber wrote:
> > Stop looking down in that cabinet !!!
>
> At least somebody said it... <G>

You know how sometimes you want to make some filler and you have some
glue and you need some sawdust of the same wood so you can mix up a
little batch right on the spot?

The corners inside the cabinet are a good place to look. The top layer
is usually the sawdust I'm looking for.

I have looked over Pentz's site several times, have a cartridge filter
on a HF dust collector w" 6" tubing, a hepa room filter and a hepa
shopvac filter for my 6" RO. I was still nervous until I found this
study of a refinishing shop

http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/media/m3tgpnrqqh22jryxvcby/contributions/e/n/l/8/enl87py4fytrrdr7.pdf

It shows a shop with no dust collection using a 6" RO sander generating
just barely above even the new air quality standards (1.4 mg/m3) for
fine particulates. I could see an argument that they would build up
over time, but this should have been included in the measurements since
these guys weren't collecting their dust at all.

This does not address the issues with the larger particles (above 2.5u)
but those are not as serious as the ones associated with the smallest
particles (and the most expensive dust collection solutions) and the
most paranoia. It also doesn't address cleanliness and other issues
with wood dust and chips.

Just another data point for those working their way down to a clean
room like I am.

[email protected] wrote:
> OK, here's what seems to be working the best so far. I've pretty much
> made a small downdraft in the bottom of my cabinet saw by putting a
> piece of plywood with holes and a "funnel" in the cabinet base. It goes
> something like this, from the bottom up:
> The factory floor of the saw slopes toward the DC port. The edges
> of the facory floor were sealed up with duct tape. I then took a piece
> of plywood about the same size square as the facory floor and mounted
> it just above the DC port and sealed it up with duct tape (Again, think
> downdraft table). Two blocks were added on one side between the two
> floors to keep the plywood level instead of angled like the factory
> floor.
> I then drilled a series of 5 3/4" evenly spaced holes right down
> the center of the plywood directly inline with the DC port. I tried
> just using pegboard, a series of 1" holes in plywood and a series of
> 1/2" holes in plywood. It seemed anything less than 3/4" would just
> clog, and too many 1" holes would lessen the suction to the point where
> it just didn't work either. I may refine the number and size of holes
> a little, but I think 3/4" is a good start between keeping good suction
> and not to small as to clog.
> I then cut two pieces of plywood and put them in the cabinet to
> form a "V". They basically create a slope (or funnel) on either side
> of the cabinet to direct the dust toward the 5 holes I drilled in the
> plywood.
> I just finished ripping a bunch of wood into about 400 lf of 1/4"
> pieces to check how this would perform in real world use. The cabinet
> only has about a quart or so of dust in the bottom around the holes and
> has seemed to stabilized there. However, some dust did gather on the
> outsides of the funnel where there is no holes for dust collection. I
> need to refine this a litle yet to keep dust out of those areas (more
> duct tape??)
> In any case, I'm gonna look over Bill Pentz site this eve (between
> beers) and see if there is any ideas to refine this thing further. I 'd
> guess the best DC would be a shroud that would fit around the blade,
> but it just doesn't seem possible with my saw. As it is though, I've
> managed to make great progress in a few hours with just 3 pieces of
> plywood and some duct tape. Will report back with future refinements
> and some pics soon. Happy New Year! --dave
>
>
>
>
> Dave Jackson wrote:
> > I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
> > a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
> > other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
> > just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands and
> > knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
> > often. It's made no difference as to the legnth of the run to the DC
> > either, I've had it down to 6' and the dust still settles. Anyway, it's my
> > mission this week to figure something out that will prevent this from
> > happening. Questions for the group:
> > Anyone else have poor dust collection on their cabinet saw?
> > What kind/brand TS and what cfm DC are you using?
> > Any other details how you fixed the problem would also be helpful.
> > I have a few ideas to fix the problem, and will be "field testing" them this
> > week to see if any really work. Thanks, --dave.

I found it

http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/link.asp?id=enl87py4fytrrdr7


Andrew Barss wrote:
> [email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
> : I have looked over Pentz's site several times, have a cartridge filter
> : on a HF dust collector w" 6" tubing, a hepa room filter and a hepa
> : shopvac filter for my 6" RO. I was still nervous until I found this
> : study of a refinishing shop
>
> : http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/media/m3tgpnrqqh22jryxvcby/contributions/e/n/l/8/enl87py4fytrrdr7.pdf
>
>
> What is the title or author of the paper? This link gets me to
> T&F's main page only.
>
> -- Andy Barss

I have a related question. My Unisaw does an OK job with the dust not
settling much in the cabinet but with a zero clearance insert I get a
lot of sawdust on top of the saw. I am thinking of getting the shark
guard and wondered if you put the dust collection hose only on the
guard or y them and have a hose on both. Also, has anyone had
experience with his newer 4" port model and is it worth the clumsiness
of dealing with a 4" instead of the smaller hose hanging from the
ceiling?
Thanks, Mike.

Dave Jackson wrote:
> I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
> a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
> other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
> just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands and
> knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
> often. It's made no difference as to the legnth of the run to the DC
> either, I've had it down to 6' and the dust still settles. Anyway, it's my
> mission this week to figure something out that will prevent this from
> happening. Questions for the group:
> Anyone else have poor dust collection on their cabinet saw?
> What kind/brand TS and what cfm DC are you using?
> Any other details how you fixed the problem would also be helpful.
> I have a few ideas to fix the problem, and will be "field testing" them this
> week to see if any really work. Thanks, --dave.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm thinking if the
> makeup air could come from below the dust pile, or just across the top
> of the floor of the saw, it should be able to carry most of the dust
> out of the machine. --dave
>

I think you are on to something there, but it may require you to hole saw a
couple of holes in the cabinet of your saw. Right above the floor would be
my answer.
I have a Deltas contractors saw. I covered the back of the saw at first, but
later removed the cover and saw no difference in the dust collection. Not a
single opening is covered on my saw and I bet it recovers 90% of the dust.
The rest only an over arm guard would get. You need air flow to keep the
dust moving.
Greg

"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> wait until you get that Performax sander running, talk about nuisance
> dust. I made the mistake of not opening the dc vent to my drum sander (has
> two 4" dc ports) once and it was an instant dust cloud.

LOL. I bet. On a better note, the collector bag does not fill as fast as
with the planer. ;~)

Stop looking down in that cabinet !!!

Build yourself a ramp of some sort that
helps the dust get to the pipe and forget the
stuff in the corners.

I do mine with a shop vac "about" every quarter
and that seems to be enough.

I let this same problem annoy me for a couple of
years and decided it was not worth the effort.


Dave Jackson wrote:

> I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
> a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
> other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
> just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands and
> knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
> often.

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Leon, your probably right, I may be getting a little AR here, I just
>> thought I could come up with a simple solution that would work at least
>> reasonably well. Your right about plugging all the holes though. The
>> DC does need make up air to move sawdust. My challenge has been
>> focusing the makeup air to carry the sawdust to the DC port. The way
>> the saw is designed now, the makeup air comes from all the openings at
>> the top of the cabinet and flows to the DC port without picking up all
>> the dust at the floor of the cabinet along the way. I'm thinking if the
>> makeup air could come from below the dust pile, or just across the top
>> of the floor of the saw, it should be able to carry most of the dust
>> out of the machine. --dave
>
>
> If you insist on this,;~) you may consider plugging the upper end holes
> and drill holes in the bottom shelf, put the holes where the dust is going
> to end up.
> I did serious wood working for 28+ years with out a dust collector. I am
> very happy with the dust collector and not having to scoop the dust out
> any more. Since the dust is contained and easy to empty now I really
> don't care if the collector gets it all. It does very well with the 15"
> stationary planer and my BS, two of my biggest creators of nuisance dust.
wait until you get that Performax sander running, talk about nuisance dust.
I made the mistake of not opening the dc vent to my drum sander (has two 4"
dc ports) once and it was an instant dust cloud.

and to the OP, I have an Oneida 3HP system that still leaves dust in the
Unisawr.

Gary

"Leon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>> Yea, I've been pretty close to burying the motor completely. This is
>> kinda whay I started experimenting with it today. So far, I've been
>> able to effectively remove 20 gal of dust from the machine by poring
>> the dust down the throat in less than 10 minutes time with only a
>> couple of handfulls of dust left in the cabinet. (I did clog the whole
>> thing up by dumping a whole 3 gallon bucket down there at once, but
>> that is way more dust than the blade could create in a few seconds
>> anyway.) In theory, this is working! It's just been easier to try and
>> mimic creating gallons of dust by pouring it down there rather than
>> ripping up a bunch of wood just for testing. However, I think I'm in
>> the ballpark close enough now to try testing it by ripping some stock,
>> so in a few minutes I'm gonna fire up the TS to see what happens for
>> real. This may sound silly, but I think what I've created is just a
>> small downdraft system that fits into the saw cabinet and directs the
>> makeup air to pickup the dust on the way to the port. Simple concept,
>> but it's working!! I'll report back soon with real world results.
>> --dave
>
> Something else to consider, not all sad dust is created eaually. My saw
> fills more quickly when ripping. Ripping creates longer and stringly
> strands of wood where cross cutting creates a more fine dust that tends to
> end up in the collector more readily.
>

:-o How can we create sad dust? :-)

I also think relative humidity has an effect, both of the wood and
surrounding air. Here in Phoenix it's usually so dry that static
electricity is a huge problem causing static cling. I've moved "dust"
around (Swingman's method) inside the cabinet saw only to have it re-stick
somewhere else. Type of wood is also a factor. Face milling poplar (Sears
pos profile cutters) caused a huge build-up inside while doing the same task
with maple did not.

Gary

"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
>a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
>other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
>just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands
>and knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
>often.

I think you are being a bit AR here. I have the exact same machines, dust
collects in the saw not the shop and who cares from there. It beats
scooping the saw out with a dust pan.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> So far, I've been able to
> dump 20 gallons of sawdust through the throat and the DC has picked up
> nearly all of it. However, I haven't actually tried it with the saw in
> use yet.

Dumping down the throat is a bit different than having a spinning blade toss
around the dust. Unless the motor is getting buried, leave well enough
alone.

Pat Barber wrote:
> Stop looking down in that cabinet !!!

At least somebody said it... <G>

"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
>a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
>other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
>just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands
>and knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
>often.

What happens if you just leave it alone? My contractor's saw has some
sawdust that has accumulated around the sides, but it acts as a dam to
funnel the new stuff to the dc inlet. It does not get any bigger that what
is already there. I suspect you have the same situation.

Given the aerodynamics of a saw cabinet, it is not possible to grab every
little bit of dust that gets under the top. Once you get to the level of
equilibrium, it will get it as it flows. Try just leaving it alone for a
while.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Plugging up all the holes was my first failed attempt, and an exercise
> in futility. I duct taped most of the outside openings, except the
> slot in the front for the tilt. I soon realised there are many holes
> between the top of the cabinet and the bottom castings on the table,
> many I can almost put my hand through. I considerd spray foaming
> these, but think there must be a better, simpler solution. I even
> considered sealing off everything in the cabinet and adding some holes
> in the cabinet opposite the DC port to provide sort of a "jet stream"
> for makeup air to blow across the bottom of the cabinet and into the DC
> port, but haven't had the guts to drill holes in my new saw cabinet
> (yet). The cabinet already has a floor that tilts toward the DC port,
> but has not proved effective at all. --dave
> Phisherman wrote:
>> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:01:06 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:


You have to have air flow. Plugging too many holes will hinder you more
than help. Plug all the holes and you will collect no dust.

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Yea, I've been pretty close to burying the motor completely. This is
> kinda whay I started experimenting with it today. So far, I've been
> able to effectively remove 20 gal of dust from the machine by poring
> the dust down the throat in less than 10 minutes time with only a
> couple of handfulls of dust left in the cabinet. (I did clog the whole
> thing up by dumping a whole 3 gallon bucket down there at once, but
> that is way more dust than the blade could create in a few seconds
> anyway.) In theory, this is working! It's just been easier to try and
> mimic creating gallons of dust by pouring it down there rather than
> ripping up a bunch of wood just for testing. However, I think I'm in
> the ballpark close enough now to try testing it by ripping some stock,
> so in a few minutes I'm gonna fire up the TS to see what happens for
> real. This may sound silly, but I think what I've created is just a
> small downdraft system that fits into the saw cabinet and directs the
> makeup air to pickup the dust on the way to the port. Simple concept,
> but it's working!! I'll report back soon with real world results.
> --dave

Something else to consider, not all sad dust is created eaually. My saw
fills more quickly when ripping. Ripping creates longer and stringly
strands of wood where cross cutting creates a more fine dust that tends to
end up in the collector more readily.




>
>
> Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > So far, I've been able to
>> > dump 20 gallons of sawdust through the throat and the DC has picked up
>> > nearly all of it. However, I haven't actually tried it with the saw in
>> > use yet.
>>
>> Dumping down the throat is a bit different than having a spinning blade
>> toss
>> around the dust. Unless the motor is getting buried, leave well enough
>> alone.
>

Thanks for the fast reply! I added an overhead guard w/Dc a few months ago.
It did help, but hasn't stopped the cabinet from filling up. --dave


"B A R R Y" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:45:24 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> Anyone else have poor dust collection on their cabinet saw?
>
> Yes. But a shop-made overhead "guard" helps keep the topside cleaner.
> My guard is based on a Woodcentral.com article.
>
>> What kind/brand TS and what cfm DC are you using?
>
> General 650, Jet DC100CK, with a home run of pipe specifically for the
> saw..
>
>> Any other details how you fixed the problem would also be helpful.
>
> I now ignore the dust inside the saw and have moved on... <G>

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:45:24 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
>a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
>other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
>just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands and
>knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
>often.

I have the same situation with my dust collector; every once in a
while I will (with the saw OFF) stick an jet nozzle from my air
compressor down into the throat area while the dust collector is on
and point it around at different areas. In a couple of minutes the saw
cabinet is cleaned out.

My old Jet had the same problem until I taped over the vent
louvers and added sheet metal that sloped down to the dust port.
I had so much dust collect in it before the mods that it caught
fire when I was cutting a 45 degree bevel. The blade and belts
squeezed the excess dust against the side and it resulted in a
friction fire. Guess where the fire extinguisher was? Not anywhere
near the shop.

Jim

"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
>a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
>other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
>just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands
>and knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
>often. It's made no difference as to the legnth of the run to the DC
>either, I've had it down to 6' and the dust still settles. Anyway, it's
>my mission this week to figure something out that will prevent this from
>happening. Questions for the group:
> Anyone else have poor dust collection on their cabinet saw?
> What kind/brand TS and what cfm DC are you using?
> Any other details how you fixed the problem would also be helpful.
> I have a few ideas to fix the problem, and will be "field testing" them
> this week to see if any really work. Thanks, --dave.
>

[email protected] <[email protected]> wrote:
: I have looked over Pentz's site several times, have a cartridge filter
: on a HF dust collector w" 6" tubing, a hepa room filter and a hepa
: shopvac filter for my 6" RO. I was still nervous until I found this
: study of a refinishing shop

: http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/media/m3tgpnrqqh22jryxvcby/contributions/e/n/l/8/enl87py4fytrrdr7.pdf


What is the title or author of the paper? This link gets me to
T&F's main page only.

-- Andy Barss

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:45:24 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
>a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
>other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
>just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands and
>knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
>often. It's made no difference as to the legnth of the run to the DC
>either, I've had it down to 6' and the dust still settles. Anyway, it's my
>mission this week to figure something out that will prevent this from
>happening. Questions for the group:
> Anyone else have poor dust collection on their cabinet saw?
> What kind/brand TS and what cfm DC are you using?
> Any other details how you fixed the problem would also be helpful.
>I have a few ideas to fix the problem, and will be "field testing" them this
>week to see if any really work. Thanks, --dave.
>


When that high torque motor starts up with a bang think about all the
sound and vibration dampening you get with that dust in there.

The latest Delta Unisaw design works the best, chute and port in line
with the blade and gull wings on each side to discourage settling.

When shop expansion completed and I can finally have dust collection,
I think I'll be satisfied for a long time just not having to crawl
under that saw (and everything else) every week or so to clean out the
dust.

15" planer rolls to the back of the shop and discharges out the barn
doors, pitch fork works well to bag it up.

Dedicated shop vac for the drum sander. Still roll it to the back of
the shop.

Frank

"GeeDubb" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>>
>
> :-o How can we create sad dust? :-)

Would you not be "sad" if you cut your hand on the TS? LOL




>
> I also think relative humidity has an effect, both of the wood and
> surrounding air. Here in Phoenix it's usually so dry that static
> electricity is a huge problem causing static cling. I've moved "dust"
> around (Swingman's method) inside the cabinet saw only to have it re-stick
> somewhere else. Type of wood is also a factor. Face milling poplar
> (Sears pos profile cutters) caused a huge build-up inside while doing the
> same task with maple did not.
>

Agreed, as well as type of blade. It seems the my Forrest General blade
produces higher piles of saw dust than my old Systematic Combo blade. That
may be my imagination though.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 14:45:24 GMT, "Dave Jackson" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Anyone else have poor dust collection on their cabinet saw?

Yes. But a shop-made overhead "guard" helps keep the topside cleaner.
My guard is based on a Woodcentral.com article.

> What kind/brand TS and what cfm DC are you using?

General 650, Jet DC100CK, with a home run of pipe specifically for the
saw..

> Any other details how you fixed the problem would also be helpful.

I now ignore the dust inside the saw and have moved on... <G>

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 11:57:22 -0600, "Swingman" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Leon" wrote in message
>
>> I think you are being a bit AR here.
>
>Sawdust! ... from sawing wood in a woodshop!?
>
>I mean, Lord have mercy ... what's the world coming to when things aren't
>perfect, like they are on TV?

The folks on TeeVee never get covered in router shavings as I was this
afternoon.

What gives? <G>

Happy New Year to all!

"Leon" wrote in message

> I think you are being a bit AR here.

Sawdust! ... from sawing wood in a woodshop!?

I mean, Lord have mercy ... what's the world coming to when things aren't
perfect, like they are on TV?

> I have the exact same machines, dust
> collects in the saw not the shop and who cares from there.
> It beats scooping the saw out with a dust pan.

My Unisaw does a pretty decent job of funneling the sawdust to the port, but
every once in a great while I have to invoke my patented "two stage" dust
collection system:

... poke a stick down its throat and coax some of it toward its doom.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 12/25/06

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Leon, your probably right, I may be getting a little AR here, I just
> thought I could come up with a simple solution that would work at least
> reasonably well. Your right about plugging all the holes though. The
> DC does need make up air to move sawdust. My challenge has been
> focusing the makeup air to carry the sawdust to the DC port. The way
> the saw is designed now, the makeup air comes from all the openings at
> the top of the cabinet and flows to the DC port without picking up all
> the dust at the floor of the cabinet along the way. I'm thinking if the
> makeup air could come from below the dust pile, or just across the top
> of the floor of the saw, it should be able to carry most of the dust
> out of the machine. --dave


If you insist on this,;~) you may consider plugging the upper end holes and
drill holes in the bottom shelf, put the holes where the dust is going to
end up.
I did serious wood working for 28+ years with out a dust collector. I am
very happy with the dust collector and not having to scoop the dust out any
more. Since the dust is contained and easy to empty now I really don't
care if the collector gets it all. It does very well with the 15"
stationary planer and my BS, two of my biggest creators of nuisance dust.

On Sun, 31 Dec 2006 15:01:06 GMT, "Edwin Pawlowski" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Dave Jackson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>>I bought a Jet 3hp cabinet saw back in September. The saw is connected to
>>a Jet 1100 CK DC. The DC does a fine job of collecting the dust from the
>>other machines in the shop, but the dust in the cabinet of the table saw
>>just settles there and requires me to turn on the DC and get on my hands
>>and knees to move the dust in the cabinet to the 4" opening by hand pretty
>>often.
>
>What happens if you just leave it alone? My contractor's saw has some
>sawdust that has accumulated around the sides, but it acts as a dam to
>funnel the new stuff to the dc inlet. It does not get any bigger that what
>is already there. I suspect you have the same situation.
>
>Given the aerodynamics of a saw cabinet, it is not possible to grab every
>little bit of dust that gets under the top. Once you get to the level of
>equilibrium, it will get it as it flows. Try just leaving it alone for a
>while.
>

There are usually lots of holes/spaces inside a cabinet saw that
decreases the DC effectiveness. You can try sealing up some of the
spaces. I made two plugs, made from pieces of foam glued to
fiberboard. These plugs fit into the tilt and blade riser slots and
helped a lot. Of course, these plugs fall out if you move the blade
too much, but the tilt remains in place most of the time. You might
also consider putting a slant board inside the cabinet that tilts
toward the DC port. Overall, there are more nooks and crannies inside
a cabinet table saw than other machines. I hand clean mine out a few
times a year.