ca 1914 farmhouse w/ open 7-ft deep porches width of house on north/west
sides. Four turned wood columns on each; Dad replaced the bases which
were originally just 2x12 w/ a 2X10 of SYP with a molded base when had
house repainted in (I believe it was '95). The bottom ends of a some of
the columns had also rotted and he sawed them back to solid ends and
fitted a circular section under; looked quite good still when we came
back to the farm in '99 after his (unexpected) passing.
But, since then, it appears he just cut out some soft pine circles as
starting points and shaped them; a couple of them are now badly rotted
and I'm going to have to pull those columns out again and redo a repair.
Am thinking of "more better" ways to ensure a more long-lasting repair
and looking for ideas/suggestions or particularly if Robert or someone
here has previously dealt with the problem...
At the moment I don't have pictures to post; will try to do that...
Anyways, sorry to bring up a wood-related question in lieu of units... :)
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On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 3:58:30 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
> ca 1914 farmhouse w/ open 7-ft deep porches width of house on north/west=
=20
> sides. Four turned wood columns on each; Dad replaced the bases which=20
> were originally just 2x12 w/ a 2X10 of SYP with a molded base when had=20
> house repainted in (I believe it was '95). The bottom ends of a some of=
=20
> the columns had also rotted and he sawed them back to solid ends and=20
> fitted a circular section under; looked quite good still when we came=20
> back to the farm in '99 after his (unexpected) passing.
>=20
> But, since then, it appears he just cut out some soft pine circles as=20
> starting points and shaped them; a couple of them are now badly rotted=20
> and I'm going to have to pull those columns out again and redo a repair.=
=20
> Am thinking of "more better" ways to ensure a more long-lasting repair=
=20
> and looking for ideas/suggestions or particularly if Robert or someone=20
> here has previously dealt with the problem...
>=20
> At the moment I don't have pictures to post; will try to do that...
>=20
> Anyways, sorry to bring up a wood-related question in lieu of units... :)
>=20
> --
>=20
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Several years ago, the, then, neighbor across the street was doing a simila=
r job, with many of the same problems. He found a company in Troy, Al ( ht=
tp://www.hbgcolumns.com/fiberglass-columns/permacast-columns ) that solved=
his problem, and he was very particular about what he put on the house. =
=20
The other thing you could do is redo the bases out of jarrah, ipe or some s=
imilar wood, Who cares about color or grain, you are going to paint them a=
ny way.
On 8/8/2016 3:58 PM, dpb wrote:
> ca 1914 farmhouse w/ open 7-ft deep porches width of house on north/west
> sides. Four turned wood columns on each; Dad replaced the bases which
> were originally just 2x12 w/ a 2X10 of SYP with a molded base when had
> house repainted in (I believe it was '95). The bottom ends of a some of
> the columns had also rotted and he sawed them back to solid ends and
> fitted a circular section under; looked quite good still when we came
> back to the farm in '99 after his (unexpected) passing.
>
> But, since then, it appears he just cut out some soft pine circles as
> starting points and shaped them; a couple of them are now badly rotted
> and I'm going to have to pull those columns out again and redo a repair.
> Am thinking of "more better" ways to ensure a more long-lasting repair
> and looking for ideas/suggestions or particularly if Robert or someone
> here has previously dealt with the problem...
>
> At the moment I don't have pictures to post; will try to do that...
>
> Anyways, sorry to bring up a wood-related question in lieu of units... :)
>
> --
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
A buddy and I used to repair these on occasions. We probably did a
dozen or so.
We replaced the fancy finial at the bottom with the plastic style and
built up a PT base under that.
The problem we saw was that the base of the column sitting directly on
concrete porches. Sprinkler systems caused water to puddle at low spots
of the porch often at or next to the columns. Basically the bottoms of
the columns never had a chance to dry out. Placing the shortened
columns on top of the plastic and PT base insured that the wood part of
the column did not sit in a puddle of water every morning.
On 8/8/16 3:58 PM, dpb wrote:
> ca 1914 farmhouse w/ open 7-ft deep porches width of house on
> north/west sides. Four turned wood columns on each; Dad replaced the
> bases which were originally just 2x12 w/ a 2X10 of SYP with a molded
> base when had house repainted in (I believe it was '95). The bottom
> ends of a some of the columns had also rotted and he sawed them back
> to solid ends and fitted a circular section under; looked quite good
> still when we came back to the farm in '99 after his (unexpected)
> passing.
>
> But, since then, it appears he just cut out some soft pine circles
> as starting points and shaped them; a couple of them are now badly
> rotted and I'm going to have to pull those columns out again and redo
> a repair. Am thinking of "more better" ways to ensure a more
> long-lasting repair and looking for ideas/suggestions or particularly
> if Robert or someone here has previously dealt with the problem...
>
> At the moment I don't have pictures to post; will try to do that...
>
> Anyways, sorry to bring up a wood-related question in lieu of
> units... :)
>
As is usual with repairs like this, it depends on if you have more time
or more money.
There are so many of these rotten columns around here, I could probably
work full time just replacing/repairing them.
One thing you really need to consider is if they are load bearing. If
they are, the standard wood-filler or epoxy putty repair probably isn't
wise. Cutting out the rotted section and inserting blocks is one way,
but as you found out, those will rot away very quickly. If they are
painted, you could try treated lumber.
What my clients usually decide on are composite replacements. I tell
them that the labor is probably going to be the same for me to repair or
replace the columns, but a repair will likely rot out again in 10 years.
Most composite columns made now are load bearing. One company is making
a column on which most of the structure is wood with the lower foot or
so being a composite material that won't rot or wick water.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 08/08/2016 5:47 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
...
> As is usual with repairs like this, it depends on if you have more time
> or more money.
$$ really isn't a particular issue, I'm most interested in keeping the
authenticity of the house and it'll be fill-in during non-farming time...
...
> One thing you really need to consider is if they are load bearing. If
> they are, the standard wood-filler or epoxy putty repair probably isn't
> wise. Cutting out the rotted section and inserting blocks is one way,
> but as you found out, those will rot away very quickly. If they are
> painted, you could try treated lumber.
They are, but only the porch roofs, so it's very little actual loading.
> What my clients usually decide on are composite replacements. I tell
> them that the labor is probably going to be the same for me to repair or
> replace the columns, but a repair will likely rot out again in 10 years.
Well, the originals went more like 60 or 80, so I think I should be able
to do something that'll outlast me by quite a bit... :)
I've been pondering since posting, I'm thinking along the lines of
gluing up some fir blanks (these are, of course, coopered) and turning a
two-foot or so section. I can then slice off what need from it and
reattach it to the base. I'm thinking if the end is again sealed it
should essentially be as the new ones were "way back when". I'll have
to 'spearmint as to whether can do the above without removing entirely;
I suspect that's the shortcut Dad took was simply sliding in the piece
in place and he used just what looks like some pine shelving board which
didn't last at all because the end grain is open on the sides even
though it is/was painted is what I'm guessing given the way it looks as
it has failed...
Thanks for the ideas, I'll continue to ponder.
I had looked at some of the new composites; I've not seen one in person,
but so much of that stuff just looks fake...you have any recommendations
on particular manufacturers or models that don't stick out as "I'm new
and plastic!" as opposed to the original wood?
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On 8/8/16 7:36 PM, dpb wrote:
> On 08/08/2016 5:47 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
> ...
>
>> As is usual with repairs like this, it depends on if you have more time
>> or more money.
>
> $$ really isn't a particular issue, I'm most interested in keeping the
> authenticity of the house and it'll be fill-in during non-farming time...
>
> ...
>
>> One thing you really need to consider is if they are load bearing. If
>> they are, the standard wood-filler or epoxy putty repair probably isn't
>> wise. Cutting out the rotted section and inserting blocks is one way,
>> but as you found out, those will rot away very quickly. If they are
>> painted, you could try treated lumber.
>
> They are, but only the porch roofs, so it's very little actual loading.
>
>> What my clients usually decide on are composite replacements. I tell
>> them that the labor is probably going to be the same for me to repair or
>> replace the columns, but a repair will likely rot out again in 10 years.
>
> Well, the originals went more like 60 or 80, so I think I should be able
> to do something that'll outlast me by quite a bit... :)
>
> I've been pondering since posting, I'm thinking along the lines of
> gluing up some fir blanks (these are, of course, coopered) and turning a
> two-foot or so section. I can then slice off what need from it and
> reattach it to the base. I'm thinking if the end is again sealed it
> should essentially be as the new ones were "way back when". I'll have
> to 'spearmint as to whether can do the above without removing entirely;
> I suspect that's the shortcut Dad took was simply sliding in the piece
> in place and he used just what looks like some pine shelving board which
> didn't last at all because the end grain is open on the sides even
> though it is/was painted is what I'm guessing given the way it looks as
> it has failed...
>
> Thanks for the ideas, I'll continue to ponder.
>
> I had looked at some of the new composites; I've not seen one in person,
> but so much of that stuff just looks fake...you have any recommendations
> on particular manufacturers or models that don't stick out as "I'm new
> and plastic!" as opposed to the original wood?
>
The ones I ended up with were called Permacast. Maybe Permacast Lite.
They are basically fiberglas with resin. Very, very strong and won't
expand or contract much. Once painted, youi can't tell the difference
from wood.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 08/08/2016 8:01 PM, -MIKE- wrote:
...
> The ones I ended up with were called Permacast. Maybe Permacast Lite.
> They are basically fiberglas with resin. Very, very strong and won't
> expand or contract much. Once painted, youi can't tell the difference
> from wood.
OK, thanks, mayhaps I'll (probably briefly) consider it but 5(maybe 6?)
of the 8 are still fine so that seems overkill and mix 'n match likely
isn't good idea visually.
As for can't tell, I'd bet "can, too!" :) May not be egregious but bet
it's still possible to tell.
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On 8/9/16 5:46 AM, Dr. Deb wrote:
> On Monday, August 8, 2016 at 3:58:30 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:
>> ca 1914 farmhouse w/ open 7-ft deep porches width of house on
>> north/west sides. Four turned wood columns on each; Dad replaced
>> the bases which were originally just 2x12 w/ a 2X10 of SYP with a
>> molded base when had house repainted in (I believe it was '95).
>> The bottom ends of a some of the columns had also rotted and he
>> sawed them back to solid ends and fitted a circular section under;
>> looked quite good still when we came back to the farm in '99 after
>> his (unexpected) passing.
>>
>> But, since then, it appears he just cut out some soft pine circles
>> as starting points and shaped them; a couple of them are now badly
>> rotted and I'm going to have to pull those columns out again and
>> redo a repair. Am thinking of "more better" ways to ensure a more
>> long-lasting repair and looking for ideas/suggestions or
>> particularly if Robert or someone here has previously dealt with
>> the problem...
>>
>> At the moment I don't have pictures to post; will try to do
>> that...
>>
>> Anyways, sorry to bring up a wood-related question in lieu of
>> units... :)
>>
>> --
>>
>> --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
>> software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> Several years ago, the, then, neighbor across the street was doing a
> similar job, with many of the same problems. He found a company in
> Troy, Al (
> http://www.hbgcolumns.com/fiberglass-columns/permacast-columns )
> that solved his problem, and he was very particular about what he put
> on the house.
>
Those are what I used.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On 8/8/2016 4:58 PM, dpb wrote:
> ca 1914 farmhouse w/ open 7-ft deep porches width of house on north/west
> sides. Four turned wood columns on each; Dad replaced the bases which
> were originally just 2x12 w/ a 2X10 of SYP with a molded base when had
> house repainted in (I believe it was '95). The bottom ends of a some of
> the columns had also rotted and he sawed them back to solid ends and
> fitted a circular section under; looked quite good still when we came
> back to the farm in '99 after his (unexpected) passing.
>
> But, since then, it appears he just cut out some soft pine circles as
> starting points and shaped them; a couple of them are now badly rotted
> and I'm going to have to pull those columns out again and redo a repair.
> Am thinking of "more better" ways to ensure a more long-lasting repair
> and looking for ideas/suggestions or particularly if Robert or someone
> here has previously dealt with the problem...
>
> At the moment I don't have pictures to post; will try to do that...
>
> Anyways, sorry to bring up a wood-related question in lieu of units... :)
I would use pressure treated lumber. Make sure it is rated for ground
contact. It will look exactly like the SYP it replaces because it
probably is, and will last a few hundred years, if it gets wet all the
time, probably forever if not. Let it stand a year or so before
painting to make sure it is dry enough for paint.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 08/12/2016 9:09 AM, Jack wrote:
...
> I would use pressure treated lumber. Make sure it is rated for ground
> contact. It will look exactly like the SYP it replaces because it
> probably is, and will last a few hundred years, if it gets wet all the
> time, probably forever if not. Let it stand a year or so before painting
> to make sure it is dry enough for paint.
The "old" CCA PT might last that long; the new stuff replacing it
certainly won't. I've seen it fail as quickly as inside 3-4 years in posts.
It's still a possibility; this is pretty dry country but the porches are
open so they do get wet with storms. We don't have sprinkler system so
they don't see that kind of abuse so they spend vast majority of
lifetime dry.
It's a possibility, it's a pain to glue reliably, though, to cooper to
fabricate the column.
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On 8/12/2016 10:39 AM, dpb wrote:
> On 08/12/2016 9:09 AM, Jack wrote:
>> I would use pressure treated lumber. Make sure it is rated for ground
>> contact. It will look exactly like the SYP it replaces because it
>> probably is, and will last a few hundred years, if it gets wet all the
>> time, probably forever if not. Let it stand a year or so before painting
>> to make sure it is dry enough for paint.
>
> The "old" CCA PT might last that long; the new stuff replacing it
> certainly won't. I've seen it fail as quickly as inside 3-4 years in
> posts.
Not sure about the new stuff. I recently dug up a wall around my pool
out of PT that I put in over 20 years ago. It had wet dirt from the
pool against it every summer, and it, including the 4x4 posts, were in
perfect shape. Any how, if the original, non treated lasted 60 to 80
years, the PT should not last LESS than that. I know PT is still rated
above ground and ground contact, and the ground contact stuff should
last substantially longer than untreated.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 08/13/2016 9:44 AM, Jack wrote:
...
> Not sure about the new stuff. I recently dug up a wall around my pool
> out of PT that I put in over 20 years ago. It had wet dirt from the pool
> against it every summer, and it, including the 4x4 posts, were in
> perfect shape. Any how, if the original, non treated lasted 60 to 80
> years, the PT should not last LESS than that. I know PT is still rated
> above ground and ground contact, and the ground contact stuff should
> last substantially longer than untreated.
What you had has very good probability of having been CCA which I don't
doubt could've lasted...there're old posts here that are 50+ that are
just now showing serious signs; but, new, treated aren't worth a flip.
Of course, they're a lot sorrier wood besides the less effective
treatment is part of it...
Anyway, yes, PT with the extra "oomph" of the ground contact rating will
outlast a piece of the same material w/o the treatment... :)
Whether I can find any dried of the sort locally is pretty iffy at best;
as you mention it'll be another year at least before could use
effectively a new piece if not if were to buy the material now...
I have on hand some clear, old-growth Doug fir that is left over from
the addition of the feed mill bins in the barn; I've not used it for
anything owing to it being 20-ft 2x12 almost totally clear--it's just
"too good to use"! :) But, this could be a project worthy of the
material...as noted, the tentative plan is to cooper up a section of a
couple feet or so length and then slice off short sections need to patch
the bottoms...I think if I seal the bottom ends well and use mastic on
the joints it should last far past my time left... :)
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On 8/13/2016 11:29 AM, dpb wrote:
> I have on hand some clear, old-growth Doug fir that is left over from
> the addition of the feed mill bins in the barn; I've not used it for
> anything owing to it being 20-ft 2x12 almost totally clear--it's just
> "too good to use"! :) But, this could be a project worthy of the
> material...as noted, the tentative plan is to cooper up a section of a
> couple feet or so length and then slice off short sections need to patch
> the bottoms...I think if I seal the bottom ends well and use mastic on
> the joints it should last far past my time left... :)
Another idea is to raise the base a bit off the concrete with something.
Stainless steel bolts with just the head sticking out strategically
placed to keep the wood off the concrete. This would keep the base dry
and if it ever did get wet, it would dry out quickly, eliminating rot.
I'd still go for the PT. I know there is still good stuff to be found.
--
Jack
Add Life to your Days not Days to your Life.
http://jbstein.com
On 08/14/2016 8:52 AM, Jack wrote:
...
> Another idea is to raise the base a bit off the concrete with something.
> Stainless steel bolts with just the head sticking out strategically
> placed to keep the wood off the concrete. This would keep the base dry
> and if it ever did get wet, it would dry out quickly, eliminating rot.
> I'd still go for the PT. I know there is still good stuff to be found.
Who said anything about concrete? The porch floors are 2-1/2" T&G; Dad
replaced the original bases that were a 10" sq tuba on a 12"-sq tuba.
The bottom layer is still a 12x12 solid (fabricated by mitering 2x6
stock) while the column itself rests on one the new-fangled
formed-plastic column bases so they're 3" above floor height.
If'en my phone hadn't died entirely, I'd post a picture somewhere, but
at the moment it's pretty inconvenient to deal with...
There may be good PST stuff in larger markets; this ain't one of 'em...
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On 08/14/2016 9:45 AM, dpb wrote:
...
> Who said anything about concrete? The porch floors are 2-1/2" T&G; Dad
> replaced the original bases that were a 10" sq tuba on a 12"-sq tuba.
> The bottom layer is still a 12x12 solid (fabricated by mitering 2x6
> stock) while the column itself rests on one the new-fangled
> formed-plastic column bases so they're 3" above floor height.
Oh, and I guess I hadn't mentioned; the column bases themselves are also
now the synthetic; Dad sawed them off the column and then ended up with
about 3/4" or on a couple a little more that he was short on height
which made up with just the "shims" of pine. It's only those that have
suffered in the ~15-20 yr since that I'm intent on replacing.
> If'en my phone hadn't died entirely, I'd post a picture somewhere, but
> at the moment it's pretty inconvenient to deal with...
>
> There may be good PST stuff in larger markets; this ain't one of 'em...
Iff'en you can't tell, I'm not much of a fan of working w/ PT and afaik
the local yard (yes, there's only one; I said it was small market :) )
doesn't have any KD; never have before.
Anyway, sorry it seems like I'm just shooting down all suggestions; when
I posted originally I hadn't actually thought about it much other than
needing to do; I had been fixed on the way to get such short end pieces
put together, the idea of turning a foot or so of column and then
cutting it up to fit hadn't occurred. I'm pretty convinced now I'm
going to embark on this path and see if it doesn't work pretty well, first.
Thanks for the input/feedback...
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