I'm trying to come up with a ballpark date for an old plow, to decide
whether it was more likely my great or great great grandfather's.
Not much to go on here. No markings on any of the parts. Square nuts/bolts
and one truss rod is covered with a galvanized tube. I'm guessing the
galvanized tube is more of a clue than anything, but I don't know how old
that makes it. My "old in 1951" Morgan vise has galvanized parts too.
As for wood, the original stuff is ready to retire, but still intact. It's
quite soft. Actually looks like pine to me. Someone might have replaced
the wood at some when along the way, but it's definitely been sitting out
in the rain for the last 30 years, which would seem to contraindicate pine.
Cedar? Hemlock? What soft wood would withstand 30 years in the rain, and
untold decades in the basement, not to mention decades of hard use?
Whether it was my great grandfather or my great grandfather's father, he
was dirt poor, and lived in the mountains of Virginia.
Finally, the "I have my great grandfather's axe. My grandfather replaced
the handle, and my father replaced the head" argument comes to mind here.
I'm restoring this as a gift for my grandmother, and am in a heated debate
with my mother over what to do.
Mom says bolt/screw/wire (or even *duct tape* bleah!) on some kind of braces
to shore up the rotten wood, leave it half rotten and rusty and covered
with dried up cow shit, and the fact that this wood has been touched by old
and long-since-buried hands will have more sentimental value. OTOH, I say
to do the tool and the man who once used it honor, it should be restored to
working order, which absolutely means new wood, and maybe electrolysis and
painting. (The metal has a stable coating of rust, so if I can get the
bolts apart, I can do this without having to de-rust it. Could use swaying
either way on that score.)
She says the receiver of the tool will never use it (and she won't... she's
80-something, and has gotten pretty fragile these past few years), so I
should do the minimum necessary to keep it from falling apart, keep the
old, sentimental wood, and then wire a flower pot to it and call it a
planter. I say restore it completely, make a nice display box and put the
old, rotten handles in the box.
Making a planter out of a 70-100 year old plow seems obscene to me. Am I
wrong here people? Then again, Mom knows her mother's mind better than I
do, so I'm inclined to do what she wants with it, even though the concept
is highly offensive to me as a lover of tools.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Juergen Hannappel wrote:
> So she's responsible for all the chicken farms everywhere? ;-)
Um, no, no, plastic, wood, metal, stone, concrete, maybe even an ice chicken
in there somewhere. She hasn't had any live chickens in a very long time.
>> I did, and we had a big fight over it. She thinks I'm an asshole, and I
>> can't believe she suggested that I do such a wretched thing.
>
> It can be hard with old people, but be careful not do do/say to much
> which you regret when they are gone.
Don't let Mom hear you call her an old people or she'll kick your ass. ;)
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Couldn't say about the plow but as far as the ax goes, it would seem
approprate to put it back in a condition your great grandfather would have
it.
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm trying to come up with a ballpark date for an old plow, to decide
> whether it was more likely my great or great great grandfather's.
>
> Not much to go on here. No markings on any of the parts. Square
nuts/bolts
> and one truss rod is covered with a galvanized tube. I'm guessing the
> galvanized tube is more of a clue than anything, but I don't know how old
> that makes it. My "old in 1951" Morgan vise has galvanized parts too.
>
> As for wood, the original stuff is ready to retire, but still intact.
It's
> quite soft. Actually looks like pine to me. Someone might have replaced
> the wood at some when along the way, but it's definitely been sitting out
> in the rain for the last 30 years, which would seem to contraindicate
pine.
> Cedar? Hemlock? What soft wood would withstand 30 years in the rain, and
> untold decades in the basement, not to mention decades of hard use?
> Whether it was my great grandfather or my great grandfather's father, he
> was dirt poor, and lived in the mountains of Virginia.
>
> Finally, the "I have my great grandfather's axe. My grandfather replaced
> the handle, and my father replaced the head" argument comes to mind here.
> I'm restoring this as a gift for my grandmother, and am in a heated debate
> with my mother over what to do.
>
> Mom says bolt/screw/wire (or even *duct tape* bleah!) on some kind of
braces
> to shore up the rotten wood, leave it half rotten and rusty and covered
> with dried up cow shit, and the fact that this wood has been touched by
old
> and long-since-buried hands will have more sentimental value. OTOH, I say
> to do the tool and the man who once used it honor, it should be restored
to
> working order, which absolutely means new wood, and maybe electrolysis and
> painting. (The metal has a stable coating of rust, so if I can get the
> bolts apart, I can do this without having to de-rust it. Could use
swaying
> either way on that score.)
>
> She says the receiver of the tool will never use it (and she won't...
she's
> 80-something, and has gotten pretty fragile these past few years), so I
> should do the minimum necessary to keep it from falling apart, keep the
> old, sentimental wood, and then wire a flower pot to it and call it a
> planter. I say restore it completely, make a nice display box and put the
> old, rotten handles in the box.
>
> Making a planter out of a 70-100 year old plow seems obscene to me. Am I
> wrong here people? Then again, Mom knows her mother's mind better than I
> do, so I'm inclined to do what she wants with it, even though the concept
> is highly offensive to me as a lover of tools.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
Are you doing this for you, your Grandmother, or your Grandfather? Your
Grandfather is gone so don't do it for him. You don't matter in this
situation. Therefore, the answer is you're doing it mainly for your
Grandmother and secondly for your Mother. Make them happy, do what your Mom
suggests.
If you're feeling the itch to use your woodworking skills in this situation,
make a nice picture frame and mat a picture of your Grandfather/Grandmother
to include with the old plow. You're happy, your Mom is happy, your
Grandmother is happy, everyone wins.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
"Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm trying to come up with a ballpark date for an old plow, to decide
> whether it was more likely my great or great great grandfather's.
>
> Not much to go on here. No markings on any of the parts. Square
nuts/bolts
> and one truss rod is covered with a galvanized tube. I'm guessing the
> galvanized tube is more of a clue than anything, but I don't know how old
> that makes it. My "old in 1951" Morgan vise has galvanized parts too.
>
> As for wood, the original stuff is ready to retire, but still intact.
It's
> quite soft. Actually looks like pine to me. Someone might have replaced
> the wood at some when along the way, but it's definitely been sitting out
> in the rain for the last 30 years, which would seem to contraindicate
pine.
> Cedar? Hemlock? What soft wood would withstand 30 years in the rain, and
> untold decades in the basement, not to mention decades of hard use?
> Whether it was my great grandfather or my great grandfather's father, he
> was dirt poor, and lived in the mountains of Virginia.
>
> Finally, the "I have my great grandfather's axe. My grandfather replaced
> the handle, and my father replaced the head" argument comes to mind here.
> I'm restoring this as a gift for my grandmother, and am in a heated debate
> with my mother over what to do.
>
> Mom says bolt/screw/wire (or even *duct tape* bleah!) on some kind of
braces
> to shore up the rotten wood, leave it half rotten and rusty and covered
> with dried up cow shit, and the fact that this wood has been touched by
old
> and long-since-buried hands will have more sentimental value. OTOH, I say
> to do the tool and the man who once used it honor, it should be restored
to
> working order, which absolutely means new wood, and maybe electrolysis and
> painting. (The metal has a stable coating of rust, so if I can get the
> bolts apart, I can do this without having to de-rust it. Could use
swaying
> either way on that score.)
>
> She says the receiver of the tool will never use it (and she won't...
she's
> 80-something, and has gotten pretty fragile these past few years), so I
> should do the minimum necessary to keep it from falling apart, keep the
> old, sentimental wood, and then wire a flower pot to it and call it a
> planter. I say restore it completely, make a nice display box and put the
> old, rotten handles in the box.
>
> Making a planter out of a 70-100 year old plow seems obscene to me. Am I
> wrong here people? Then again, Mom knows her mother's mind better than I
> do, so I'm inclined to do what she wants with it, even though the concept
> is highly offensive to me as a lover of tools.
>
> --
> Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
>
Silvan wrote:
> Yeah, probably, even though I can't conceive of a more horrible thing to
do
> to a tool. This is like putting a lion into a little square cage and
> making it wear a tu-tu.
No it's not. A plow is an inanimate object; big difference between that and
how animals should be treated. You still need to figure out why you're
doing this. It sounds to me like you're doing it for yourself and
pretending like everyone wants what you want. The best gift is what THEY
want, not what YOU want.
Sorry about assuming your Grandfather had passed away. You're lucky, all
four of mine were gone before I was five; three of the four before I was
born. Never had a Grandfather.
--
Larry C in Auburn, WA
I agree with Larry,
Now dammit do as your mother says or you will go to bed and you ain't gonna
get no apple pie either,
Goshdarn young uns just won't listen without a smack alongside them dadburn
ears.
"Larry C in Auburn, WA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:Tqbrb.106258$275.303440@attbi_s53...
> Are you doing this for you, your Grandmother, or your Grandfather? Your
> Grandfather is gone so don't do it for him. You don't matter in this
> situation. Therefore, the answer is you're doing it mainly for your
> Grandmother and secondly for your Mother. Make them happy, do what your
Mom
> suggests.
>
> If you're feeling the itch to use your woodworking skills in this
situation,
> make a nice picture frame and mat a picture of your
Grandfather/Grandmother
> to include with the old plow. You're happy, your Mom is happy, your
> Grandmother is happy, everyone wins.
> --
> Larry C in Auburn, WA
>
> "Silvan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm trying to come up with a ballpark date for an old plow, to decide
> > whether it was more likely my great or great great grandfather's.
> >
> > Not much to go on here. No markings on any of the parts. Square
> nuts/bolts
> > and one truss rod is covered with a galvanized tube. I'm guessing the
> > galvanized tube is more of a clue than anything, but I don't know how
old
> > that makes it. My "old in 1951" Morgan vise has galvanized parts too.
> >
> > As for wood, the original stuff is ready to retire, but still intact.
> It's
> > quite soft. Actually looks like pine to me. Someone might have
replaced
> > the wood at some when along the way, but it's definitely been sitting
out
> > in the rain for the last 30 years, which would seem to contraindicate
> pine.
> > Cedar? Hemlock? What soft wood would withstand 30 years in the rain,
and
> > untold decades in the basement, not to mention decades of hard use?
> > Whether it was my great grandfather or my great grandfather's father, he
> > was dirt poor, and lived in the mountains of Virginia.
> >
> > Finally, the "I have my great grandfather's axe. My grandfather
replaced
> > the handle, and my father replaced the head" argument comes to mind
here.
> > I'm restoring this as a gift for my grandmother, and am in a heated
debate
> > with my mother over what to do.
> >
> > Mom says bolt/screw/wire (or even *duct tape* bleah!) on some kind of
> braces
> > to shore up the rotten wood, leave it half rotten and rusty and covered
> > with dried up cow shit, and the fact that this wood has been touched by
> old
> > and long-since-buried hands will have more sentimental value. OTOH, I
say
> > to do the tool and the man who once used it honor, it should be restored
> to
> > working order, which absolutely means new wood, and maybe electrolysis
and
> > painting. (The metal has a stable coating of rust, so if I can get the
> > bolts apart, I can do this without having to de-rust it. Could use
> swaying
> > either way on that score.)
> >
> > She says the receiver of the tool will never use it (and she won't...
> she's
> > 80-something, and has gotten pretty fragile these past few years), so I
> > should do the minimum necessary to keep it from falling apart, keep the
> > old, sentimental wood, and then wire a flower pot to it and call it a
> > planter. I say restore it completely, make a nice display box and put
the
> > old, rotten handles in the box.
> >
> > Making a planter out of a 70-100 year old plow seems obscene to me. Am
I
> > wrong here people? Then again, Mom knows her mother's mind better than
I
> > do, so I'm inclined to do what she wants with it, even though the
concept
> > is highly offensive to me as a lover of tools.
> >
> > --
> > Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
> > Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
> > http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
> >
>
>
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:20:29 GMT, Larry Jaques <jake@di\/ersify.com>
brought forth from the murky depths:
>On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 10:45:22 -0500, Silvan
><[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>
>>I'm trying to come up with a ballpark date for an old plow, to decide
>>whether it was more likely my great or great great grandfather's.
>>
>>Not much to go on here. No markings on any of the parts. Square nuts/bolts
>>and one truss rod is covered with a galvanized tube. I'm guessing the
>>galvanized tube is more of a clue than anything, but I don't know how old
>>that makes it. My "old in 1951" Morgan vise has galvanized parts too.
>
>Galvanizing was invented in the 1850's, so that's no sign, Mikey.
To update my post: It was actually invented in 1742 and hot-dip
galv was patented in 1837, in general use by 1850.
-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --
Truss tube sounds like a replacement. Think early part of century.
Maybe even earlier but it was hard to get tools in that part of US in
1800's.
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 10:45:22 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm trying to come up with a ballpark date for an old plow, to decide
>whether it was more likely my great or great great grandfather's.
>
>Not much to go on here. No markings on any of the parts. Square nuts/bolts
>and one truss rod is covered with a galvanized tube. I'm guessing the
>galvanized tube is more of a clue than anything, but I don't know how old
>that makes it. My "old in 1951" Morgan vise has galvanized parts too.
>
>As for wood, the original stuff is ready to retire, but still intact. It's
>quite soft. Actually looks like pine to me. Someone might have replaced
>the wood at some when along the way, but it's definitely been sitting out
>in the rain for the last 30 years, which would seem to contraindicate pine.
>Cedar? Hemlock? What soft wood would withstand 30 years in the rain, and
>untold decades in the basement, not to mention decades of hard use?
>Whether it was my great grandfather or my great grandfather's father, he
>was dirt poor, and lived in the mountains of Virginia.
>
>Finally, the "I have my great grandfather's axe. My grandfather replaced
>the handle, and my father replaced the head" argument comes to mind here.
>I'm restoring this as a gift for my grandmother, and am in a heated debate
>with my mother over what to do.
>
>Mom says bolt/screw/wire (or even *duct tape* bleah!) on some kind of braces
>to shore up the rotten wood, leave it half rotten and rusty and covered
>with dried up cow shit, and the fact that this wood has been touched by old
>and long-since-buried hands will have more sentimental value. OTOH, I say
>to do the tool and the man who once used it honor, it should be restored to
>working order, which absolutely means new wood, and maybe electrolysis and
>painting. (The metal has a stable coating of rust, so if I can get the
>bolts apart, I can do this without having to de-rust it. Could use swaying
>either way on that score.)
>
>She says the receiver of the tool will never use it (and she won't... she's
>80-something, and has gotten pretty fragile these past few years), so I
>should do the minimum necessary to keep it from falling apart, keep the
>old, sentimental wood, and then wire a flower pot to it and call it a
>planter. I say restore it completely, make a nice display box and put the
>old, rotten handles in the box.
>
>Making a planter out of a 70-100 year old plow seems obscene to me. Am I
>wrong here people? Then again, Mom knows her mother's mind better than I
>do, so I'm inclined to do what she wants with it, even though the concept
>is highly offensive to me as a lover of tools.
Larry C in Auburn, WA wrote:
> Are you doing this for you, your Grandmother, or your Grandfather? Your
> Grandfather is gone so don't do it for him. You don't matter in this
No! My grandfather is very much alive! The plow belonged to my
grandmother's father, who passed away too long ago for me to remember much
about him. It might have been *his* father's plow. Maybe.
Anyway, I'm not trying to come off like I'm jumping your case here. I just
don't like saying people are dead who aren't. Paw-paw is very much alive,
and my grandparents are still together after almost 70 years of matrimony.
I'm in no hurry for that to change, and I don't want to jinx it.
> situation. Therefore, the answer is you're doing it mainly for your
> Grandmother and secondly for your Mother. Make them happy, do what your
> Mom suggests.
Yeah, probably, even though I can't conceive of a more horrible thing to do
to a tool. This is like putting a lion into a little square cage and
making it wear a tu-tu.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
Larry Jaques wrote:
> Galvanizing was invented in the 1850's, so that's no sign, Mikey.
> (1742)
Hmmm... Didn't know that!
> Some restoration would be good for a museum piece, full restoration
> would be good for a user item, but a rustic sentimental piece has
> its own needs, all dependent upon the recipient's feelings. How
> does Granny feel about tools in general? Is she a 'shiny user' kinda
> gal or a 'rusty, rustic, hang-it-onna-wall' kinda gal?
She's no tool user. She collects chickens.
> You just want a new project, don't you? Thought so.
Not so much that I want a new project (I have three in progress already) but
that I'm trying to come up with something good for my grandmother. My
grandfather is getting a walnut checker box that I spent umpty hours
making. There are no chickens left in the world that my grandmother
doesn't own, so we're trying to come up with something touching instead.
> Tell Mom how you feel and let her decide if she still wants to
> do it that way. Then decide how you'll respond to her choice.
I did, and we had a big fight over it. She thinks I'm an asshole, and I
can't believe she suggested that I do such a wretched thing.
> I'd get triple money to put poly on something I made for someone
> but I just flat refuse to stain it. How strong are your convictions?
Pretty strong, but I'm probably going to do it Mom's way. If someone if
*forcing* me to do this evil thing, then, well, it's sort of like how rape
isn't considered adultery.
--
Michael McIntyre ---- Silvan <[email protected]>
Linux fanatic, and certified Geek; registered Linux user #243621
http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5407/
On Sat, 08 Nov 2003 10:45:22 -0500, Silvan
<[email protected]> brought forth from the murky depths:
>I'm trying to come up with a ballpark date for an old plow, to decide
>whether it was more likely my great or great great grandfather's.
>
>Not much to go on here. No markings on any of the parts. Square nuts/bolts
>and one truss rod is covered with a galvanized tube. I'm guessing the
>galvanized tube is more of a clue than anything, but I don't know how old
>that makes it. My "old in 1951" Morgan vise has galvanized parts too.
Galvanizing was invented in the 1850's, so that's no sign, Mikey.
>As for wood, the original stuff is ready to retire, but still intact. It's
>quite soft. Actually looks like pine to me. Someone might have replaced
>the wood at some when along the way, but it's definitely been sitting out
>in the rain for the last 30 years, which would seem to contraindicate pine.
>Cedar? Hemlock? What soft wood would withstand 30 years in the rain, and
>untold decades in the basement, not to mention decades of hard use?
>Whether it was my great grandfather or my great grandfather's father, he
>was dirt poor, and lived in the mountains of Virginia.
>
>Finally, the "I have my great grandfather's axe. My grandfather replaced
>the handle, and my father replaced the head" argument comes to mind here.
>I'm restoring this as a gift for my grandmother, and am in a heated debate
>with my mother over what to do.
Some restoration would be good for a museum piece, full restoration
would be good for a user item, but a rustic sentimental piece has
its own needs, all dependent upon the recipient's feelings. How
does Granny feel about tools in general? Is she a 'shiny user' kinda
gal or a 'rusty, rustic, hang-it-onna-wall' kinda gal?
>She says the receiver of the tool will never use it (and she won't... she's
>80-something, and has gotten pretty fragile these past few years), so I
>should do the minimum necessary to keep it from falling apart, keep the
>old, sentimental wood, and then wire a flower pot to it and call it a
>planter. I say restore it completely, make a nice display box and put the
>old, rotten handles in the box.
You just want a new project, don't you? Thought so.
>Making a planter out of a 70-100 year old plow seems obscene to me. Am I
>wrong here people? Then again, Mom knows her mother's mind better than I
>do, so I'm inclined to do what she wants with it, even though the concept
>is highly offensive to me as a lover of tools.
Tell Mom how you feel and let her decide if she still wants to
do it that way. Then decide how you'll respond to her choice.
I'd get triple money to put poly on something I made for someone
but I just flat refuse to stain it. How strong are your convictions?
-- Friends Don't Let Friends Eat Turkey and Drive --
Silvan <[email protected]> writes:
[...]
> making. There are no chickens left in the world that my grandmother
> doesn't own, so we're trying to come up with something touching instead.
So she's responsible for all the chicken farms everywhere? ;-)
Or is is just a pair of chickns of every kind? Does her chicken farm
(wich from your comments one must assume she has) have need of
plowing? If so: restore the plow to working conditions and use it (if
the size of the farm does not call for a huge powered fleet of plows).
>
>> Tell Mom how you feel and let her decide if she still wants to
>> do it that way. Then decide how you'll respond to her choice.
>
> I did, and we had a big fight over it. She thinks I'm an asshole, and I
> can't believe she suggested that I do such a wretched thing.
It can be hard with old people, but be careful not do do/say to much
which you regret when they are gone.
--
Dr. Juergen Hannappel http://lisa2.physik.uni-bonn.de/~hannappe
mailto:[email protected] Phone: +49 228 73 2447 FAX ... 7869
Physikalisches Institut der Uni Bonn Nussallee 12, D-53115 Bonn, Germany
CERN: Phone: +412276 76461 Fax: ..77930 Bat. 892-R-A13 CH-1211 Geneve 23