How to recover from hand plane tearout?

A plug or inlay replacing the damaged part. Tip: practice on scrap first ...
DAMHIKT.

--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/24/03


<[email protected]> wrote in message
> "Mike G" wrote:
>
> >As with most things in woodworking the best solution is usually the one
that
> >is the most work. That, in this case, means a Dutchman.
>
> I gotta ask, "What is a Dutchman"?
>
> Wes
>
>
> --
> Reply to:
> Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
> Lycos address is a spam trap.

"tsd" <[email protected]> wrote

: All right you neanders, a little help please. I can get a stunning
: surface with my smoother, but I don't know how to deal with the
: tearout problem. It only takes one unfortunate swipe to take a
: divot that's, say, 1/16th deep. What do you do to make the area
: smooth again?
:
: If time were no object, I suppose I could take the WHOLE BOARD down
: by 1/16th (oh, the pain). Alternatively, I could scrape around the
: area, but there are two problems with that: the board is then dished
: instead of flat, and I don't get the glassy finish I get with the
: smoother (maybe a technique problem?). What do YOU do when tearout
: rears its ugly head?
:
: Help, because I'm about to take a sander to it.

This might well be the answer, but Tom has effectively demonstrated that
prevention is better than cure.

He might find some help on my web site, looking at 'Planing Notes' and then
'Coping With Gnarly Grain'.

Jeff G

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Email address is username@ISP
username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
Website www.username.clara.net

Dear Tom:

I responded through the fog, the PROFOUND fog of a
colossal brain-fart while ago per your problem of the tearout
with PREVENTATIVE steps as the suggestions to your
unfortunate occurrence. Why? - You got me !
Anyway, it didn't go through (?) so no harm/no foul!? Sorry.

As to what I'd do:

If the piece is of substantial thickness (YOUR idea of "substantial")
I would, albeit reluctantly, plane it. With one SERIOUS consideration:
Place the piece into the planer - just - turn it on, lower the blade to
the cutter-head down 'til it just barely touches/cuts the piece, lock
the head, turn it off, back the piece off, restart the machine, plane
with as many such VERY slight passes until the 'offending area is
gone.
This is what I usually do in such cases. It may well not be the safest,
easiest, whatever way. Or even the best way, but it works for me.
That said: I fear the only reasonable and/or fastest way to get the
best EVEN results is with the use of a thickness-sander.

I hope this is of help, please let us know if it is or isn't...


Warmly, Griz

<[email protected]>

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


On 31 Aug 2003 22:01:05 -0700, [email protected] (tsd) wrote:

"All right you neanders, a little help please. I can get a stunning
"surface with my smoother, but I don't know how to deal with the
"tearout problem. It only takes one unfortunate swipe to take a
"divot that's, say, 1/16th deep. What do you do to make the area
"smooth again?
"
"If time were no object, I suppose I could take the WHOLE BOARD down
"by 1/16th (oh, the pain). Alternatively, I could scrape around the
"area, but there are two problems with that: the board is then dished
"instead of flat, and I don't get the glassy finish I get with the
"smoother (maybe a technique problem?). What do YOU do when tearout
"rears its ugly head?
"
"Help, because I'm about to take a sander to it.
"
"-Tom

JackD wrote:
>
> "tsd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > All right you neanders, a little help please. I can get a stunning
> > surface with my smoother, but I don't know how to deal with the
> > tearout problem. It only takes one unfortunate swipe to take a
> > divot that's, say, 1/16th deep. What do you do to make the area
> > smooth again?
> >
> > If time were no object, I suppose I could take the WHOLE BOARD down
> > by 1/16th (oh, the pain). Alternatively, I could scrape around the
> > area, but there are two problems with that: the board is then dished
> > instead of flat, and I don't get the glassy finish I get with the
> > smoother (maybe a technique problem?). What do YOU do when tearout
> > rears its ugly head?
> >
> > Help, because I'm about to take a sander to it.
> >
> > -Tom
>
> Soaking in alcohol is one way to recover. It can lead to other problems
> though...
>
You are talking about soaking the wood, right ???

As swingman stated it is an inlay of appropriately grained scrap.

It is best to avoid making it square since the cross grain mating interface
will really show up.

Best configuration is an elongated diamond with the long points aligned with
the grain. This kind of patch/inlay, when done correctly, is almost
invisible.

Then again you can go the other way and make it a decorative patch with
contrasting wood. Commonly seen as the butterfly that is the rage lately.

An innovation, the decorative bit, I believe, of the late George Nakojima
(sorry if the spelling is wrong there)

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Mike G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >As with most things in woodworking the best solution is usually the one
that
> >is the most work. That, in this case, means a Dutchman.
>
> I gotta ask, "What is a Dutchman"?
>
> Wes
>
>
> --
> Reply to:
> Whiskey Echo Sierra Sierra AT Gee Tee EYE EYE dot COM
> Lycos address is a spam trap.

Brian:

I assume you refer to the Stanley #80 scraper-plane (?) I used this
and a couple of the hand-held variety I had at the time unsuccessfully.
The two times I tried to remedy a similar situation (it seemed entirely
reasonable at the time) I succeeded ONLY in making matters MUCH
worse! The tearout WAS bad - it was thereafter DAMNED bad!
On the first occasion I thought I'd simply done or not done something (?)
right or wrong. I honestly didn't know! - 'Still don't!
The second time I just STOPPED the project, did some research, FOLLOWED
the advice therein, screwed it up again - though not as badly, but still,
'concluded that an episode with the drum-type thickness-sander was in
order!
It worked and I didn't look back. (YRMV) (?)

I hope this helps...

Warmly, Griz

<[email protected]>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:56:27 -0400, "Brian" <brian.evans@mci%%%.com> wrote:

"I tend to discover the tear-out prone places early in the smoothing process,
"and use a #80 scraper to lower that area to the point where I am happy.
"Then, the rest of the panel comes down to match. If it's a big panel, I
"tend to get happy faster than if I can send the thing through my planer...
"
"Brian
"
"
""Griz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
"news:[email protected]...
">
"> Dear Tom:
">
"> I responded through the fog, the PROFOUND fog of a
"> colossal brain-fart while ago per your problem of the tearout
"> with PREVENTATIVE steps as the suggestions to your
"> unfortunate occurrence. Why? - You got me !
"> Anyway, it didn't go through (?) so no harm/no foul!? Sorry.
">
"> As to what I'd do:
">
"> If the piece is of substantial thickness (YOUR idea of "substantial")
"> I would, albeit reluctantly, plane it. With one SERIOUS consideration:
"> Place the piece into the planer - just - turn it on, lower the blade to
"> the cutter-head down 'til it just barely touches/cuts the piece, lock
"> the head, turn it off, back the piece off, restart the machine, plane
"> with as many such VERY slight passes until the 'offending area is
"> gone.
"> This is what I usually do in such cases. It may well not be the safest,
"> easiest, whatever way. Or even the best way, but it works for me.
"> That said: I fear the only reasonable and/or fastest way to get the
"> best EVEN results is with the use of a thickness-sander.
">
"> I hope this is of help, please let us know if it is or isn't...
">
">
"> Warmly, Griz
">
"> <[email protected]>
">
"> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
"---------------------
">
">
"> On 31 Aug 2003 22:01:05 -0700, [email protected] (tsd) wrote:
">
"> "All right you neanders, a little help please. I can get a stunning
"> "surface with my smoother, but I don't know how to deal with the
"> "tearout problem. It only takes one unfortunate swipe to take a
"> "divot that's, say, 1/16th deep. What do you do to make the area
"> "smooth again?
"> "
"> "If time were no object, I suppose I could take the WHOLE BOARD down
"> "by 1/16th (oh, the pain). Alternatively, I could scrape around the
"> "area, but there are two problems with that: the board is then dished
"> "instead of flat, and I don't get the glassy finish I get with the
"> "smoother (maybe a technique problem?). What do YOU do when tearout
"> "rears its ugly head?
"> "
"> "Help, because I'm about to take a sander to it.
"> "
"> "-Tom
">
"

While I am not a neander I'm also not unfamiliar with using a hand plane.
First thing I would do is avoid tear out when doing a surface for finishing
by keeping the blade especially sharp, keeping the throat very small, making
very shallow cuts, and holding the plane at a slight angle to the grain so
it slices instead of cutting.

Should that fail there are some options short of taking the whole surface
down. Most depend on the severity of the tear out and with what and how
the piece is going to be finished (stain or no stain, oil, or surface
finish).


You can put in a Dutchman, you can use a wood filler, you can build up the
area with a clear pore filler, or you can add and cut back finish until the
tear out is filled.

As with most things in woodworking the best solution is usually the one that
is the most work. That, in this case, means a Dutchman.

--
Mike G.
Heirloom Woods
www.heirloom-woods.net
"tsd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> All right you neanders, a little help please. I can get a stunning
> surface with my smoother, but I don't know how to deal with the
> tearout problem. It only takes one unfortunate swipe to take a
> divot that's, say, 1/16th deep. What do you do to make the area
> smooth again?
>
> If time were no object, I suppose I could take the WHOLE BOARD down
> by 1/16th (oh, the pain). Alternatively, I could scrape around the
> area, but there are two problems with that: the board is then dished
> instead of flat, and I don't get the glassy finish I get with the
> smoother (maybe a technique problem?). What do YOU do when tearout
> rears its ugly head?
>
> Help, because I'm about to take a sander to it.
>
> -Tom

"tsd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> All right you neanders, a little help please. I can get a stunning
> surface with my smoother, but I don't know how to deal with the
> tearout problem. It only takes one unfortunate swipe to take a
> divot that's, say, 1/16th deep. What do you do to make the area
> smooth again?
>
> If time were no object, I suppose I could take the WHOLE BOARD down
> by 1/16th (oh, the pain). Alternatively, I could scrape around the
> area, but there are two problems with that: the board is then dished
> instead of flat, and I don't get the glassy finish I get with the
> smoother (maybe a technique problem?). What do YOU do when tearout
> rears its ugly head?
>
> Help, because I'm about to take a sander to it.
>
> -Tom

Soaking in alcohol is one way to recover. It can lead to other problems
though...

-Jack

"FrozenNorth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> JackD wrote:
> >
> > "tsd" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > All right you neanders, a little help please. I can get a stunning
> > > surface with my smoother, but I don't know how to deal with the
> > > tearout problem. It only takes one unfortunate swipe to take a
> > > divot that's, say, 1/16th deep. What do you do to make the area
> > > smooth again?
> > >
> > > If time were no object, I suppose I could take the WHOLE BOARD down
> > > by 1/16th (oh, the pain). Alternatively, I could scrape around the
> > > area, but there are two problems with that: the board is then dished
> > > instead of flat, and I don't get the glassy finish I get with the
> > > smoother (maybe a technique problem?). What do YOU do when tearout
> > > rears its ugly head?
> > >
> > > Help, because I'm about to take a sander to it.
> > >
> > > -Tom
> >
> > Soaking in alcohol is one way to recover. It can lead to other problems
> > though...
> >
> You are talking about soaking the wood, right ???

No comment...hic...

-Jack

I tend to discover the tear-out prone places early in the smoothing process,
and use a #80 scraper to lower that area to the point where I am happy.
Then, the rest of the panel comes down to match. If it's a big panel, I
tend to get happy faster than if I can send the thing through my planer...

Brian


"Griz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Dear Tom:
>
> I responded through the fog, the PROFOUND fog of a
> colossal brain-fart while ago per your problem of the tearout
> with PREVENTATIVE steps as the suggestions to your
> unfortunate occurrence. Why? - You got me !
> Anyway, it didn't go through (?) so no harm/no foul!? Sorry.
>
> As to what I'd do:
>
> If the piece is of substantial thickness (YOUR idea of "substantial")
> I would, albeit reluctantly, plane it. With one SERIOUS consideration:
> Place the piece into the planer - just - turn it on, lower the blade to
> the cutter-head down 'til it just barely touches/cuts the piece, lock
> the head, turn it off, back the piece off, restart the machine, plane
> with as many such VERY slight passes until the 'offending area is
> gone.
> This is what I usually do in such cases. It may well not be the safest,
> easiest, whatever way. Or even the best way, but it works for me.
> That said: I fear the only reasonable and/or fastest way to get the
> best EVEN results is with the use of a thickness-sander.
>
> I hope this is of help, please let us know if it is or isn't...
>
>
> Warmly, Griz
>
> <[email protected]>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------
>
>
> On 31 Aug 2003 22:01:05 -0700, [email protected] (tsd) wrote:
>
> "All right you neanders, a little help please. I can get a stunning
> "surface with my smoother, but I don't know how to deal with the
> "tearout problem. It only takes one unfortunate swipe to take a
> "divot that's, say, 1/16th deep. What do you do to make the area
> "smooth again?
> "
> "If time were no object, I suppose I could take the WHOLE BOARD down
> "by 1/16th (oh, the pain). Alternatively, I could scrape around the
> "area, but there are two problems with that: the board is then dished
> "instead of flat, and I don't get the glassy finish I get with the
> "smoother (maybe a technique problem?). What do YOU do when tearout
> "rears its ugly head?
> "
> "Help, because I'm about to take a sander to it.
> "
> "-Tom
>