Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the waste, I
figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It zapped thru
the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the next 30
minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. A
few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally resorted to
the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.
Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
Larry
=A0What a waste of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question
here, either...
Ethical Question? Let me address that snide comment first.
Regardless the price offered by HFT, the tool is warranted to work as
described and the offer provides for the customer's satisfaction with
the tool for ten days or so. More often than not, the tool lives up to
one's expectations and dies a peaceful death in the bottom of his or
her tool box some distant day after the initial purchase and use.
On the other hand, the experience I read from the OP seemed to
describe a situation in which the tool did not work as advertised,
promised and warranted to.
So suggesting he return it to exchange it or claim a refund is hardly
unethical one my part nor would it be on his.
Every such transaction include, in effect (an often at law) a contract
between vendor and vendee and each has a right to expect the other
will fully comply with the stated terms as well as any law (26 USC, I
believe) that applies.
Last I checked, every product sold comes with an implied warranty of
suitability for intended use (United States Code), though things may
have changed since last I applied same in (Palm Beach, FL) County
Court (Senf vs., General Motors & Adams Chevrolet).
As to the "waste of time issues, you may have a point. If you are
employed and earning sixty-five dollars per hour it would be difficult
to justify an hour round trip and visit to the local HFT much less an
expected return visit to collect the refund as the cost in your time
when added to the price of the discount item will likely approach the
cost of the brand name gizmo.
But if the fine tool costs nearly ten times the price of the HFT
competition and you're an average Joe who visits HFT as much for the
pure shopping enjoyment and picks up generic stuff and expendables as
well as "serious" tools, there was no "cost" to visit as you were
going anyway. And the return-it visit is often combined with a special
coupon or "deal" you've been waiting for.
As I said, my experience with HFT Return Policy has been favorable and
they have often excused the delayed return when the item was in
original packaging, in "as new" condition even when I could no longer
produce the receipt.
If they had a "no returns" policy, they would go out of business in
three weeks. The returns policy is part and parcel of their business
plan and is accounted for generously under "Returns and Allowances."
I've several HFT tools about my shop that I seldom use. A Heat Gun and
a pneumatic file come first to mind although there are lots of others
that fit this category. It is likely that, were I employed in some way
where the use of a heat gum or an air-file were part of my daily
routine, these two would have been tossed or returned and fine
replacements purchased at a significant premium.
You can't look down your nose at the OP for taking HFT up on their
(well-advertised) offers.
If they offer it, try it. If it "works for you," keep it. If not,
exercise the Returrn Policy clause in the implied contract and get a
credit on your Mastercard.
On Jun 1, 9:35=A0pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote
Multimaster? =A0Not.
>
> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>
> Larry
Larry
IME HFT are great about returns. Take it back, get your money or try a
replacement unit. Low mfg tolerances may be the reason they sell a
high number of duds in this design or it could be they don't have a
good design. I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
it was a poor design.
On Jun 7, 8:26=A0am, "Leon" <[email protected]> wrote:
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> As to the "waste of time issues, you may have a point. If you are
> employed and earning sixty-five dollars per hour it would be difficult
> to justify an hour round trip and visit to the local HFT much less an
> expected return visit to collect the refund as the cost in your time
> when added to the price of the discount item will likely approach the
> cost of the brand name gizmo.
>
> Cannot agree here with this analogy. =A0Even if one is employeed and eari=
ning
> $1000 per hour it is a very likely chance that he is buying this product
> during his "Free Time" =A0Free time does not pay. =A0Regardless of the pr=
ice if
> you are on free time and not being paid, returning the product for a refu=
nd
> results in you being financially better off providing the cost of the tri=
p,
> ware, tear, and gasoline to return the product, does not exceed the value=
of
> the refund.
I didn't snip it because I agree with all of it.
Having been self employed for almost 30 years now, there are only two
types of time for me now.
Time when I make money.
Time when I don't make money.
So the tool would go back after the regular work day, Saturday after
work, or a holiday. Inconvenient, yes. Worth a chance on the tools
to save a couple of hundred bucks? Yessir. Keep in mind that the
$200 Multimaster is relatively new to the scene, certainly making its
market appearance in response to all the clones.
While I only have three or four HF tools, their failure rate amongst
other contractors seems to reflect my experience, which is not
different from other tool manufacturers. I am happy to set that aside
as an issue in this instance, and moreover would point out that the
subsequent posts seem to point out that with proper usage the problem
has cured itself.
And compare warranty services. With Fein, you mail off the tool at
your cost to an authorized repair center. According to Woodcraft, the
tools are usually back in your hands within 4 - 5 weeks. With 3-5
days travel each way, that's really not that bad. But at HF, if you
have the $5 policy on the tool, you walk in, hand them the tool, and
they hand you a new one.
No down time, no waiting to find out when it will be back, no planning
around an absent tool, no shipping fees, etc. IME, returning
something to HF is absolutely painless.
So while we are calculating the cost of wasted time for contractors,
it is important to think of the warranty/repair service offered as ANY
tool that is actually used will break or wear out parts. This of
course is in comparison to a tool that would be a shop queen, often
admired but used a handful of times a year.
The guys that charge $400 - $600 for different tools that cost tens of
dollars to make ask/plead/beg for a knockoff. When I was dying to buy
the Multimaster, the kit I wanted was the middle line model, and it
was about $$500 or so. I knew that they advertised that you could
build a house with one, but all I wanted one for was to cut the bottom
of door jambs loose. I had a contract with a company to finish and
replace entry doors and many times the jambs were captured by tile or
wood floors installed after the door.
I really wanted that Multimaster. After hearing the disappointment
from my amigos when using it as a sander, or after using the
ridiculous grout removal tool, I decided that the only thing I would
use it on regularly was doors. But $500.... I was only cutting out
about every third jamb, so I backed off. I bought a new shop vac and
a Bosch half sheet sander instead as a dust collector. I use that
setup all the time.
Now I only put in a couple/three doors a year, and I am glad I didn't
buy the Fein. I could see buying the HF tool though, because even at
$35 and being used 2-3 times a year on doors only, that tool could pay
for itself in the first two doors.
Next time I an running flush and the sale comes up, I might bite.
After all, if I don't like it, HF will take it back with no questions
asked for 30 days.
Robert
Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?
"blackemmons" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
On Jun 1, 10:35 pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
> new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
> which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the waste, I
> figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It zapped thru
> the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
> loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the next 30
> minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. A
> few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally resorted to
> the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.
>
> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>
> Larry
I had the same loosening problem but I read a thread somewhere about
putting a rubber O-ring on it. I did and it cured the problem.
It may not be a MultiMaster but I sure have gotten my $35 dollars
worth.
Jim
On Jun 1, 10:35=A0pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nutz. =A0So I finally have something moderately productive to do with thi=
s
> new $35 gadget. =A0I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
> which were cut on the bandsaw. =A0And rather than chop out the waste, I
> figured =A0my new multitool would make short work of it. =A0It zapped thr=
u
> the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
> loosened. =A0OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. =A0So for the next 30
> minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. =A0A
> few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. =A0I finally resorted t=
o
> the old hammer and chisel. =A0Multimaster? =A0Not.
>
> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>
> Larry
hi, got the same problem.
$35 from:
SISTERS OF ST. FRANCIS HOUSE OF PROSTITUTION
"Kevin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:ee9e9bde-a60f-4619-83e7-39cf1ab8f9f5@d31g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 7, 9:13 pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...> GouldsofDerbyshire
> wrote:
> >> Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?
>
> > Not mentioned, but wouldn't Locktite interfere with changing blades?
>
> Loctite generally causes more problems than it solves. The need is for
> getting the fastener tight, not gluing it in a loose position (such as
> with
> loctite).
> To get tight and remain that way, the screw is run in until the head
> contacts the part to be held and is then turned somewhat further, putting
> the screw in tension. Due to the large surface area of the thread
> engagement and the 60 degree angle of the threads, they will gal and seize
> well before the body of the screw comes under tension. Buy using a high
> pressure lubricant on the threads,the screw can be turned enough to put it
> under proper tension and it will hold much tighter than it would dry. The
> lubricant used must be a high pressure type (Lubriplate, Antisieze, etc.).
> Something like 3 in 1 oil will not do it. Putting the body of the screw
> under tension is the same way a lock washer works. Though the screw may
> not
> be really tight(due to the galling), the spring pressure of the washer
> holds
> the screw under tension preventing it from loosening. In addition, anyone
> that has worked with black pipe will tell you, the pipe will not seal
> without the application of Teflon tape or pipe dope before assembly. Pipe
> dope and Teflon tape is NOT a sealer. It is a lubricant which enables you
> to
> tighten the threads enough for the threads to make a seal.
> The point? Use some anti seize on the screw.
So could you just use teflon tape?
Yes.
"CW" <[email protected]> writes:
> Loctite generally causes more problems than it solves. The need is for
> getting the fastener tight, not gluing it in a loose position (such as with
> loctite).
Fasteners using loctite are not meant to be loose, but tightened to spec.
> To get tight and remain that way, the screw is run in until the head
> contacts the part to be held and is then turned somewhat further, putting
> the screw in tension. Due to the large surface area of the thread
> engagement and the 60 degree angle of the threads, they will gal and seize
> well before the body of the screw comes under tension.
There is galling and there is GALLING. Torquing a fastener to spec is
putting it under tension and is what holds it and what torque specs
and torque wrenches are for. This causes galling on a microscopic
level whichs is acceptable and does not prevent fasteners from being
torqued to spec multiple times. This is common with many fasteners of
varied materials. Stainless steel IS highly prone to galling, but can
still be torqued to spec without lube and without major galling, but
it's a crap shoot. When SS really galls, you'll know it. That sucker
is welded and will have to be broken to remove.
> under proper tension and it will hold much tighter than it would dry. The
> lubricant used must be a high pressure type (Lubriplate, Antisieze, etc.).
Good quality lubricants like motor oil, graphite, etc, can
provide adequate lubrication.
> Something like 3 in 1 oil will not do it.
Not a great choice, but better than a poke in the eye with a sharp
stick. Also, WD40 is NOT a lubricant.
> Putting the body of the screw
> under tension is the same way a lock washer works. Though the screw may not
> be really tight(due to the galling), the spring pressure of the washer holds
> the screw under tension preventing it from loosening.
Lock washers work only partially by tension. The primary
locking mechanism is by the washer digging into and deforming the
fastener/contact points into a nonslip surface.
> without the application of Teflon tape or pipe dope before assembly. Pipe
> dope and Teflon tape is NOT a sealer. It is a lubricant which enables you to
> tighten the threads enough for the threads to make a seal.
You can turn bare pipe threads beyond their max engagement and they
will still leak. You can turn bare pipe threads to optimum
engagement and they won't seal, but upon adding tape/dope and turning
to same level of engagement, sealing occurs. Yes, it is a sealer.
And, yes, it is also a lubricant.
> The point? Use some anti seize on the screw.
At the very least, some sort of lubricant is preferred. Even alcohol
is better than nothing. OTOH, using no lubricants whatsoever is
acceptable practice under required conditions, regardless of the
fastener material. Depends on the application.
nb
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
> Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
> That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
DOH!
Of course you are right. I didn't even consider. Thanks for the
clue. ;)
nb
Charlie Groh <[email protected]> writes:
> ...$35 Multimaster...er...yeah. I bought the real thing when it was
> expensive......
What? It's got cheap while I wasn't looking?
nb
evodawg <[email protected]> writes:
> Yeah I do but nothing you'd be interested in.
If dowels is the best you can do, you're right.
> And Yes I'm an obnoxious ass.
Well then, ESADA!
nb
"J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and changed the
> blade mount on the second or third generation to one that is star shaped.
> There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on the back to bite into the
> platen and prevent such loosening when using newer blades......
I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
nb
evodawg <[email protected]> writes:
> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing tools
> that never use them.
Do you have good opposing argument or are you just an obnoxious ass?
nb
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> writes:
> Suggestions:
> * Did you use the grippy washer thingy?
heh heh..... Is that the official manual term?
> * You have really honk the bolt down double-tight (spot welding
> helps).
This thing only come with one blade/cutter?
> * Try a 3/8" lock washer as part of the setup.
Sounds like a classic case of you get what you pay for. ;)
nb
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:57:28 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Charlie Groh wrote:
>>
>>
>> ...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?
>>
>>
>>> I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
>>> a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
>>> it was a poor design.
>>
>> ...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
>> the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
>> frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
>> all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
>> of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...
>>
>
>1. As long as you're going to HF, it's not a waste of time to get your money
>back. I don't make a trip to HD to return a hinge set - I toss it in the
>return bin. When the return bin gets full, I take everything back at once,
>usually when I'm about to make a big purchase.
HD is my 7/11 and I'm there 3,4,5 times a week...I do the same thing.
My "waste of time" comment referred to the whole dang process... ;0)
>2. I don't think there's an ethical question if the tool doesn't function as
>you expected.
...all well and good...my point being, I think, just what the hell
*do* you expect? I'd like to think that there's a kernal of "what's
right" in most people, hooked-up to a modicum of intelligence...so,
just for the record, I, personally, wouldn't take back a $35
Multimaster under the circumstances described by the OP...it would be
an object lesson and in the trash can. I *should have* known better.
(believe me, plenty of times I've gone beyond with a tool or whatever
and not tried to get my money back...just as I wouldn't sue Starbux
for hot coffee *I* spilled in my lap).
>3. HF's return policy is more than generous. I took back a $9.95 plastic air
>hose that burst and they replaced it with a $35, rubber, top-of-the-line
>model. I was more than satisfied.
...well, this is perfectly legit, and I think very cool on HF's part
(at least that store)...not the same thing, though, the Multimaster
in question didn't truly break, it just didn't live up to
expectations.
cg
On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:01:09 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>On Jun 1, 9:35 pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote
>Multimaster? Not.
>>
>> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>>
>> Larry
>
>Larry
>
>IME HFT are great about returns. Take it back, get your money or try a
>replacement unit. Low mfg tolerances may be the reason they sell a
>high number of duds in this design or it could be they don't have a
>good design.
...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?
> I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
>a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
>it was a poor design.
...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...
cg
TD Driver wrote:
> Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with
> this new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side
> of which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the
> waste, I figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It
> zapped thru the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then
> the blade loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for
> the next 30 minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my
> wedding night. A few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I
> finally resorted to the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.
>
> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>
Suggestions:
* Did you use the grippy washer thingy?
* You have really honk the bolt down double-tight (spot welding helps). A
long-shaft allen wrench might help.
*Use less pressure - let the tool do the work.
* Perhaps the depth of the cut was so great that the wood was grabbing the
blade. You're holding the tool. Something's got to give.
* Try a 3/8" lock washer as part of the setup.
"HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> GouldsofDerbyshire wrote:
>> Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?
>>
>
> Not mentioned, but wouldn't Locktite interfere with changing blades?
>
Loctite generally causes more problems than it solves. The need is for
getting the fastener tight, not gluing it in a loose position (such as with
loctite).
To get tight and remain that way, the screw is run in until the head
contacts the part to be held and is then turned somewhat further, putting
the screw in tension. Due to the large surface area of the thread
engagement and the 60 degree angle of the threads, they will gal and seize
well before the body of the screw comes under tension. Buy using a high
pressure lubricant on the threads,the screw can be turned enough to put it
under proper tension and it will hold much tighter than it would dry. The
lubricant used must be a high pressure type (Lubriplate, Antisieze, etc.).
Something like 3 in 1 oil will not do it. Putting the body of the screw
under tension is the same way a lock washer works. Though the screw may not
be really tight(due to the galling), the spring pressure of the washer holds
the screw under tension preventing it from loosening. In addition, anyone
that has worked with black pipe will tell you, the pipe will not seal
without the application of Teflon tape or pipe dope before assembly. Pipe
dope and Teflon tape is NOT a sealer. It is a lubricant which enables you to
tighten the threads enough for the threads to make a seal.
The point? Use some anti seize on the screw.
[email protected] wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>
>>had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and changed the
>>blade mount on the second or third generation to one that is star shaped.
>>There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on the back to bite into the
>>platen and prevent such loosening when using newer blades......
>
>
> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
> and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>
> nb
I often use my Fein with the blade set to an offset angle due to
clearance problems. The limited access was why I was using the Fein in
the first place.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Amigo108 wrote:
> On Jun 1, 10:35 pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with
>> this new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side
>> of which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the
>> waste, I figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It
>> zapped thru the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then
>> the blade loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the
>> next 30 minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding
>> night. A few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally
>> resorted to the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.
>>
>> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>>
>> Larry
>
> Where did you find a Fein Multimaster for $35??
>
> BTW, I need more blades right now, anyone know a good inexpensive
> place to buy them online. None of my local suppliers carry them.
>
I believe the Dremel blades will fit.
HF has an assortment of blades for their tool. A five-pack is $6.95 or
thereabouts. They may fit your high-priced model.
evodawg wrote:
>>
>>Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
>>That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
>
> You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes in the
> blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a desired
> position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.
I'd try either an internal or external "star" washer of the appropriate
size.
--
Jack Novak
Buffalo, NY - USA
[email protected]
Here's an update on this from the OP: I believe that my plan of attack
"trapped" the blade. I chose another angle of attach, supplemented by a
bit of hammer and chisel, and got the job done without much fuss.
Conclusion: the tool is worth the $35 and most of the problem was found
in the dummy operating it.
Larry
Charlie Groh wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 15:57:28 -0500, "HeyBub" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Charlie Groh wrote:
>>>
>>> ...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?
>>>
>>>
>>>> I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
>>>> a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
>>>> it was a poor design.
>>> ...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
>>> the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
>>> frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
>>> all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
>>> of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...
>>>
>> 1. As long as you're going to HF, it's not a waste of time to get your money
>> back. I don't make a trip to HD to return a hinge set - I toss it in the
>> return bin. When the return bin gets full, I take everything back at once,
>> usually when I'm about to make a big purchase.
>
> HD is my 7/11 and I'm there 3,4,5 times a week...I do the same thing.
> My "waste of time" comment referred to the whole dang process... ;0)
>
>> 2. I don't think there's an ethical question if the tool doesn't function as
>> you expected.
>
> ...all well and good...my point being, I think, just what the hell
> *do* you expect? I'd like to think that there's a kernal of "what's
> right" in most people, hooked-up to a modicum of intelligence...so,
> just for the record, I, personally, wouldn't take back a $35
> Multimaster under the circumstances described by the OP...it would be
> an object lesson and in the trash can. I *should have* known better.
> (believe me, plenty of times I've gone beyond with a tool or whatever
> and not tried to get my money back...just as I wouldn't sue Starbux
> for hot coffee *I* spilled in my lap).
>
>
>> 3. HF's return policy is more than generous. I took back a $9.95 plastic air
>> hose that burst and they replaced it with a $35, rubber, top-of-the-line
>> model. I was more than satisfied.
>
> ...well, this is perfectly legit, and I think very cool on HF's part
> (at least that store)...not the same thing, though, the Multimaster
> in question didn't truly break, it just didn't live up to
> expectations.
>
> cg
>
On Tue, 02 Jun 2009 15:42:48 -0500, the infamous TD Driver
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>I cranked down on that sumbitch as hard as I could, but I'm getting to
>be an old guy. I was thinking of having SWMBO come out and yell at it
>some. As someone noted, ya gets what ya pays for. I'll reserve this
>for thinner stuff and break out hammer and chisels for this piece of work.
Here ya go:
Use with a 3/8" breaker bar and wrench on the tool shaft
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93203
Use these longer allens with a wrench on the tool head:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=96645
And, if you use it only with that blade, try some of this Loctite on
the screw: http://fwd4.me/1Hk If the medium strength (blue, 243)
doesn't hold, try the red (272) schtuff.
--
The only reason I would take up exercising is
so that I could hear heavy breathing again.
On Mon, 01 Jun 2009 21:35:50 -0500, TD Driver
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
>new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
>which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the waste, I
>figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It zapped thru
>the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
>loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the next 30
>minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. A
>few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally resorted to
>the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.
>
>Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>
>Larry
...$35 Multimaster...er...yeah. I bought the real thing when it was
expensive and some of the situations that it's handled for me in the
field have made it worth 4 times as much.
cg
On Jun 1, 10:35=A0pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nutz. =A0So I finally have something moderately productive to do with thi=
s
> new $35 gadget. =A0I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
> which were cut on the bandsaw. =A0And rather than chop out the waste, I
> figured =A0my new multitool would make short work of it. =A0It zapped thr=
u
> the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
> loosened. =A0OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. =A0So for the next 30
> minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. =A0A
> few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. =A0I finally resorted t=
o
> the old hammer and chisel. =A0Multimaster? =A0Not.
>
> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>
> Larry
I had the same loosening problem but I read a thread somewhere about
putting a rubber O-ring on it. I did and it cured the problem.
It may not be a MultiMaster but I sure have gotten my $35 dollars
worth.
Jim
On Jun 1, 10:35=A0pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote:
> Nutz. =A0So I finally have something moderately productive to do with thi=
s
> new $35 gadget. =A0I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
> which were cut on the bandsaw. =A0And rather than chop out the waste, I
> figured =A0my new multitool would make short work of it. =A0It zapped thr=
u
> the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
> loosened. =A0OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. =A0So for the next 30
> minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. =A0A
> few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. =A0I finally resorted t=
o
> the old hammer and chisel. =A0Multimaster? =A0Not.
>
> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>
> Larry
Where did you find a Fein Multimaster for $35??
BTW, I need more blades right now, anyone know a good inexpensive
place to buy them online. None of my local suppliers carry them.
Thanks,
David
On Jun 7, 9:13=A0pm, "CW" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...> GouldsofDerbyshir=
e wrote:
> >> Haven't kept up with the thread. Was using loctite mentioned?
>
> > Not mentioned, but wouldn't Locktite interfere with changing blades?
>
> Loctite generally causes more problems than it solves. The need is for
> getting the fastener tight, not gluing it in a loose position (such as wi=
th
> loctite).
> To get tight and remain that way, the screw is run in until the head
> contacts the part to be held and is then turned somewhat further, putting
> the screw in tension. =A0Due to the large surface area of the thread
> engagement and the 60 degree angle of the threads, they will gal and seiz=
e
> well before the body of the screw comes under tension. Buy using a high
> pressure lubricant on the threads,the screw can be turned enough to put i=
t
> under proper tension and it will hold much tighter than it would dry. The
> lubricant used must be a high pressure type (Lubriplate, Antisieze, etc.)=
.
> Something like 3 in 1 oil will not do it. =A0 Putting the body of the scr=
ew
> under tension is the same way a lock washer works. Though the screw may n=
ot
> be really tight(due to the galling), the spring pressure of the washer ho=
lds
> the screw under tension preventing it from loosening. In addition, anyone
> that has worked with black pipe will tell you, the pipe will not seal
> without the application of Teflon tape or pipe dope before assembly. Pipe
> dope and Teflon tape is NOT a sealer. It is a lubricant which enables you=
to
> tighten the threads enough for the threads to make a seal.
> The point? Use some anti seize on the screw.
So could you just use teflon tape?
TD Driver wrote:
> Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with this
> new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side of
> which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the waste, I
> figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It zapped thru
> the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then the blade
> loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for the next 30
> minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my wedding night. A
> few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose. I finally resorted to
> the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.
>
> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>
> Larry
I bought one just to see if it worked. Used it the other day to cut out
drywall for electrical boxes, worked great. Then tried it on some baseboard
I needed to trim for wider case molding, worked great except the blade did
loosen. I did have to tighten it a few times. Would have been better if the
designer would have used the metal dowels to hold blade in place. But for
35 dollars it worked with some frustration.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
TD Driver wrote:
> Nutz. So I finally have something moderately productive to do with
> this new $35 gadget. I've got a 3+ inch deep dado in a 4x4, the side
> of which were cut on the bandsaw. And rather than chop out the
> waste, I figured my new multitool would make short work of it. It
> zapped thru the first half inch like the hot knife thru butter, then
> the blade loosened. OK, I mustn't have torqued it enough. So for
> the next 30 minutes, there was more in and out than I had on my
> wedding night. A few seconds of cutting then the blade came loose.
> I finally resorted to the old hammer and chisel. Multimaster? Not.
>
> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
If the motion of the blade is constrained by its knocking against an edge or
the like then the blade on the original Multimaster comes loose too. I've
had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and changed the
blade mount on the second or third generation to one that is star shaped.
There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on the back to bite into the
platen and prevent such loosening when using newer blades, but it would only
work with Fein brand blades, not Harbor Freight which I Ibelieve have the
round hole--the adapter is available for about ten bucks from Woodcraft. If
you're willing to use only Fein blades you can have it spot welded so that
there's no possibility of it moving, but a three pack of Fein E-cut blades
costs more than the whole Harbor Freight tool so you may not want to do
that.
The real trick though on deep plunges is to make sure that the cut is always
wide enough to allow the blade full movement. That means cutting it a half
inch or so deep then moving to a different spot until you've cut the whole
width a half inch or so, then coming back and cutting another half inch or
so until you're done.
If you've got some reaction wood that is binding the blade you may need to
make a clearance cut as well, taking out little wedge shaped pieces, but
that's rare.
Incidentally, if you decide to get Fein blades it pays to shop around--I
don't know what gives with the pricing but it's bizarre. What's expensive
one place is cheap another and vice versa (with "cheap" being a relative
term--Fein blades are all ludicrously expensive for what they are).
[email protected] wrote:
> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and changed
>> the blade mount on the second or third generation to one that is star
>> shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on the back to bite
>> into the platen and prevent such loosening when using newer blades......
>
> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
> and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>
> nb
I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing tools
that never use them.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
evodawg wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>
>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>
>>> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
>>> changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
>>> that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
>>> the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
>>> using newer blades......
>>
>> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
>> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
>> and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>>
>> nb
> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
> tools that never use them.
Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
[email protected] wrote:
> evodawg <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing tools
>> that never use them.
>
> Do you have good opposing argument or are you just an obnoxious ass?
>
> nb
Yeah I do but nothing you'd be interested in. And Yes I'm an obnoxious ass.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
J. Clarke wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>
>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
>>>> changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
>>>> that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
>>>> the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
>>>> using newer blades......
>>>
>>> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
>>> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
>>> and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>>>
>>> nb
>> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
>> tools that never use them.
>
> Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
> That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes in the
blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a desired
position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
evodawg wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> evodawg wrote:
>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>
>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
>>>>> changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
>>>>> that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
>>>>> the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
>>>>> using newer blades......
>>>>
>>>> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
>>>> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed
>>>> blades and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>>>>
>>>> nb
>>> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
>>> tools that never use them.
>>
>> Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
>> That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
> You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes
> in the blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a
> desired position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.
That's what Dremel does.
I don't know why Fein didn't originally put some kind of positive blade
retention on their tool, but they didn't. The round shaft works well enough
most of the time. As I said, they ultimately fixed it and provided a
retrofit accessory for 10 bucks that should also work on the HF.
I can't really fault Harbor Freight because they seem to have been going for
a clone and not a new improved design, and the only way they can make a
completely compatible clone with positive retention is to use the star
retention, which Fein has patented.
I don't know if Dremel has patented the dowel-based retention or not.
[email protected] wrote:
> evodawg <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>> Yeah I do but nothing you'd be interested in.
>
> If dowels is the best you can do, you're right.
>
>> And Yes I'm an obnoxious ass.
>
> Well then, ESADA!
>
> nb
Oh yeah I forgot you had a better idea. Whatever! Stop wasting my time.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
J. Clarke wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>
>>> evodawg wrote:
>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
>>>>>> changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
>>>>>> that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
>>>>>> the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
>>>>>> using newer blades......
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
>>>>> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed
>>>>> blades and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> nb
>>>> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
>>>> tools that never use them.
>>>
>>> Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
>>> That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
>> You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes
>> in the blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a
>> desired position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.
>
> That's what Dremel does.
>
> I don't know why Fein didn't originally put some kind of positive blade
> retention on their tool, but they didn't. The round shaft works well
> enough
> most of the time. As I said, they ultimately fixed it and provided a
> retrofit accessory for 10 bucks that should also work on the HF.
>
> I can't really fault Harbor Freight because they seem to have been going
> for a clone and not a new improved design, and the only way they can make
> a completely compatible clone with positive retention is to use the star
> retention, which Fein has patented.
>
> I don't know if Dremel has patented the dowel-based retention or not.
I looked at Dremel at a trade show and the allen screw would not stay tight.
Have heard they have a fix. I'm using the HF a lot and I'm satisfied with
it. It's loosened a couple of times but hey what do you expect for 35.00.
It's still better then using a Japanese saw to undercut and nothing but a
Multi Tool works for cutting baseboard already attached to accommodate
wider door casings.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
Charlie Groh wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:01:09 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
>
>> On Jun 1, 9:35 pm, TD Driver <[email protected]> wrote
>> Multimaster? Not.
>>>
>>> Any tips from any of you guys who went for the same deal?
>>>
>>> Larry
>>
>> Larry
>>
>> IME HFT are great about returns. Take it back, get your money or try
>> a replacement unit. Low mfg tolerances may be the reason they sell a
>> high number of duds in this design or it could be they don't have a
>> good design.
>
>
> ...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?
>
>
>> I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
>> a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
>> it was a poor design.
>
> ...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
> the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
> frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
> all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
> of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...
No, there isn't. He's doing exactly what Harbor Freight's refund policy is
intended to do--you find out that their cheap tool doesn't do what you need
you take it back and then go buy something somewhere else that does.
J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
>>>> changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
>>>> that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
>>>> the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
>>>> using newer blades......
>>> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
>>> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
>>> and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>>>
>>> nb
>> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
>> tools that never use them.
>
> Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
> That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
>
Used mine, today, to cut 2x4's flush to another 2x.
No loosening.
I looked at it and thought of drilling a hole in the round part that
receives the blade, Then sticking a pressure pin in there to line up
with the holes in the blades. (The Dremel's have a lot of them, evenly
spaced, 360 degrees.)
Just an idea.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
>> I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
>> a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
>> it was a poor design.
>
> ...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
> the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
> frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
> all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
> of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...
>
> cg
Or, you find it works just fine for what you do with it and you keep it.
Or you take it back for a refund, like you said.
They have a return policy, where's the ethical dilemma.
As for time... all I have is time. I use it to build stuff with tools I
buy. :-)
By the way, I've taken back planty of expensive, name-brand tools,
because they sucked.
Quality isn't inherent in higher priced tools, though yeah, the odds are
higher.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
J. Clarke wrote:
> No, there isn't. He's doing exactly what Harbor Freight's refund policy is
> intended to do--you find out that their cheap tool doesn't do what you need
> you take it back and then go buy something somewhere else that does.
>
They have a giant sign is every store that reads, "100 Percent
Satisfaction Guaranteed" followed by smaller print explaining their very
liberal, customer friendly return policy.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
evodawg wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>
>> evodawg wrote:
>>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>
>>>> evodawg wrote:
>>>>> [email protected] wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
>>>>>>> changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
>>>>>>> that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth
>>>>>>> on the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening
>>>>>>> when using newer blades......
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
>>>>>> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed
>>>>>> blades and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nb
>>>>> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
>>>>> tools that never use them.
>>>>
>>>> Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade
>>>> orientation. That's why the star, it allows a range of blade
>>>> orientations.
>>> You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes
>>> in the blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a
>>> desired position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.
>>
>> That's what Dremel does.
>>
>> I don't know why Fein didn't originally put some kind of positive
>> blade retention on their tool, but they didn't. The round shaft
>> works well enough
>> most of the time. As I said, they ultimately fixed it and provided a
>> retrofit accessory for 10 bucks that should also work on the HF.
>>
>> I can't really fault Harbor Freight because they seem to have been
>> going for a clone and not a new improved design, and the only way
>> they can make a completely compatible clone with positive retention
>> is to use the star retention, which Fein has patented.
>>
>> I don't know if Dremel has patented the dowel-based retention or not.
>
> I looked at Dremel at a trade show and the allen screw would not stay
> tight. Have heard they have a fix. I'm using the HF a lot and I'm
> satisfied with it. It's loosened a couple of times but hey what do
> you expect for 35.00.
If it's only loosened a couple of times then it's doing about as well as the
original Fein.
> It's still better then using a Japanese saw to
> undercut and nothing but a Multi Tool works for cutting baseboard
> already attached to accommodate wider door casings.
Nova wrote:
> evodawg wrote:
>
>
>>>
>>>Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
>>>That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
>>
>> You could put dowels in the holder at different locations and holes in
>> the blade that would allow you to turn the blade and lock it to a desired
>> position. Not the entire 360 degree but points in between.
>
> I'd try either an internal or external "star" washer of the appropriate
> size.
>
I agree, next time I'm at the hardware store picking up a few.
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
-MIKE- wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>>> had that happen more than once. Fein recognized the problem and
>>>>> changed the blade mount on the second or third generation to one
>>>>> that is star shaped. There is an adapter that has carbide teeth on
>>>>> the back to bite into the platen and prevent such loosening when
>>>>> using newer blades......
>>>> I'm surprised the shaft is not keyed in some way. A couple of
>>>> opposing parallel flats on the shaft end with similarly keyed blades
>>>> and washer or cupped washer would seem a simple solution.
>>>>
>>>> nb
>>> I'd say a stupid simple solution! But Nooooooooo Idiots designing
>>> tools that never use them.
>>
>> Flats wouldn't work--they'd lock you into a single blade orientation.
>> That's why the star, it allows a range of blade orientations.
>>
>
> Used mine, today, to cut 2x4's flush to another 2x.
> No loosening.
Dang did the same thing today and used a power planner. Should have use the
Multi tool,damn. I have to remember all this thing does!!!
>
> I looked at it and thought of drilling a hole in the round part that
> receives the blade, Then sticking a pressure pin in there to line up
> with the holes in the blades. (The Dremel's have a lot of them, evenly
> spaced, 360 degrees.)
>
> Just an idea.
>
>
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
Running Mandriva release 2008.0 free-i586 using KDE on i586
Website Address http://rentmyhusband.biz/
evodawg wrote:
> Dang did the same thing today and used a power planner. Should have use the
> Multi tool,damn. I have to remember all this thing does!!!
Nah, you were right with the planer.
I would've done the same thing, but I was inside and didn't want all the
chips.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
[email protected] wrote:
> If they offer it, try it. If it "works for you," keep it. If not,
> exercise the Returrn Policy clause in the implied contract and get a
> credit on your Mastercard.
I agree with everything you wrote and just want to point out that their
policy isn't implied, it's specific.
There's a big sign in every store that reads "100 Percent Satisfaction
Guaranteed," along with their generous and clearly worded return policy.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 18:27:13 -0700 (PDT), [email protected] wrote:
> What a waste of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question
>here, either...
>
>Ethical Question? Let me address that snide comment first.
>
>Regardless the price offered by HFT, the tool is warranted to work as
>described and the offer provides for the customer's satisfaction with
>the tool for ten days or so. More often than not, the tool lives up to
>one's expectations and dies a peaceful death in the bottom of his or
>her tool box some distant day after the initial purchase and use.
>
>On the other hand, the experience I read from the OP seemed to
>describe a situation in which the tool did not work as advertised,
>promised and warranted to.
>
>So suggesting he return it to exchange it or claim a refund is hardly
>unethical one my part nor would it be on his.
>
>Every such transaction include, in effect (an often at law) a contract
>between vendor and vendee and each has a right to expect the other
>will fully comply with the stated terms as well as any law (26 USC, I
>believe) that applies.
>
>Last I checked, every product sold comes with an implied warranty of
>suitability for intended use (United States Code), though things may
>have changed since last I applied same in (Palm Beach, FL) County
>Court (Senf vs., General Motors & Adams Chevrolet).
>
>As to the "waste of time issues, you may have a point. If you are
>employed and earning sixty-five dollars per hour it would be difficult
>to justify an hour round trip and visit to the local HFT much less an
>expected return visit to collect the refund as the cost in your time
>when added to the price of the discount item will likely approach the
>cost of the brand name gizmo.
>
>But if the fine tool costs nearly ten times the price of the HFT
>competition and you're an average Joe who visits HFT as much for the
>pure shopping enjoyment and picks up generic stuff and expendables as
>well as "serious" tools, there was no "cost" to visit as you were
>going anyway. And the return-it visit is often combined with a special
>coupon or "deal" you've been waiting for.
>
>As I said, my experience with HFT Return Policy has been favorable and
>they have often excused the delayed return when the item was in
>original packaging, in "as new" condition even when I could no longer
>produce the receipt.
>
>If they had a "no returns" policy, they would go out of business in
>three weeks. The returns policy is part and parcel of their business
>plan and is accounted for generously under "Returns and Allowances."
>
>I've several HFT tools about my shop that I seldom use. A Heat Gun and
>a pneumatic file come first to mind although there are lots of others
>that fit this category. It is likely that, were I employed in some way
>where the use of a heat gum or an air-file were part of my daily
>routine, these two would have been tossed or returned and fine
>replacements purchased at a significant premium.
>
>You can't look down your nose at the OP for taking HFT up on their
>(well-advertised) offers.
>
>If they offer it, try it. If it "works for you," keep it. If not,
>exercise the Returrn Policy clause in the implied contract and get a
>credit on your Mastercard.
...I stand chided and humble. Good points and many missed by me...
cg
Charlie Groh wrote:
>
>
> ...and the low price affects *all* of this, eh?
>
>
>> I would take it back for an exchange if I thought it was
>> a matter of tolerances or similar and for money back if I determined
>> it was a poor design.
>
> ...so, you buy a knockoff tool for a *much* lower price than you know
> the original to sell for. Then take it home and use it until
> frustration sets in; and the realization that maybe it doesn't work
> all that well. Then take it back and ask for a refund. What a waste
> of time...and, of course, there's no ethical question here, either...
>
1. As long as you're going to HF, it's not a waste of time to get your money
back. I don't make a trip to HD to return a hinge set - I toss it in the
return bin. When the return bin gets full, I take everything back at once,
usually when I'm about to make a big purchase.
2. I don't think there's an ethical question if the tool doesn't function as
you expected.
3. HF's return policy is more than generous. I took back a $9.95 plastic air
hose that burst and they replaced it with a $35, rubber, top-of-the-line
model. I was more than satisfied.
I cranked down on that sumbitch as hard as I could, but I'm getting to
be an old guy. I was thinking of having SWMBO come out and yell at it
some. As someone noted, ya gets what ya pays for. I'll reserve this
for thinner stuff and break out hammer and chisels for this piece of work.
Larry
HeyBub wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
>> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> writes:
>>
>>
>>> Suggestions:
>>> * Did you use the grippy washer thingy?
>> heh heh..... Is that the official manual term?
>
> No, but I couldn't pronounce the Chinese name.
>
>>> * Try a 3/8" lock washer as part of the setup.
>> Sounds like a classic case of you get what you pay for. ;)
>>
>
> No, but if you're handicapped, you have additional concerns and expenses.
>
> I learned to tighten the bolt as far as it would go, then 1/8th turn more. I
> assumed the OP had a strength problem and could use some mechanical help.
>
>
[email protected] wrote:
> "HeyBub" <[email protected]> writes:
>
>
>> Suggestions:
>> * Did you use the grippy washer thingy?
>
> heh heh..... Is that the official manual term?
No, but I couldn't pronounce the Chinese name.
>
>> * Try a 3/8" lock washer as part of the setup.
>
> Sounds like a classic case of you get what you pay for. ;)
>
No, but if you're handicapped, you have additional concerns and expenses.
I learned to tighten the bolt as far as it would go, then 1/8th turn more. I
assumed the OP had a strength problem and could use some mechanical help.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:247deec2-6f0b-4fed-8a3a-42b37938b114@r34g2000vba.googlegroups.com...
snip
As to the "waste of time issues, you may have a point. If you are
employed and earning sixty-five dollars per hour it would be difficult
to justify an hour round trip and visit to the local HFT much less an
expected return visit to collect the refund as the cost in your time
when added to the price of the discount item will likely approach the
cost of the brand name gizmo.
Cannot agree here with this analogy. Even if one is employeed and earining
$1000 per hour it is a very likely chance that he is buying this product
during his "Free Time" Free time does not pay. Regardless of the price if
you are on free time and not being paid, returning the product for a refund
results in you being financially better off providing the cost of the trip,
ware, tear, and gasoline to return the product, does not exceed the value of
the refund.