I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It filled it
with Styrofoam and double layered (both sides of OSB) each side with plastic
sheeting. It was successful in that all the fish survived. (The pond is too
shallow to leave it uncovered). The problem is that this thing weighs over
200 pounds, blocks the light for the fish/heating and leeches formaldehyde.
It also trapped water, despite the double sheeting. I went to lift it off
this spring and couldn't figure out why it was so frickin heavy. It had
about 30 gallons of water trapped inside the bottom layers of plastic. :)
I was thinking I could build something out of those Paltuf polycarbonate
panels.Although I have no idea how heavy these things are compared to the
OSB? Also building the access door would be a PITA given the corrugated
nature of these panels?
Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate panels? Any
better ideas?
I was a commercial fish breeder and retailer. In the winter months, my
ponds were protected by one or more polystyrene "igloos". This is what
they looked like: a hollow hemisphere, with wall thickness of around
3/4 inch on the smaller ones, which were around15 inch diameter, and a
wall thickness of around 2 inches on the 20 inch diameter larger ones.
Every igloo had a 1 inch diameter hole at the top, and every igloo had
a fishing line tether tied to it with a weight at the bottom end.
Practice was to lower the weight to the bottom of the pond, and shorten
the tether to allow the igloo to have a limited amount of movement
across the pond surface. This loose tether allows the igloos to be
moved by any wind, this movement tends to prevent ice crystals forming
on the pond surface. Inside the igloos, the temperature is kept above
freezing point by the insulating properties of the 'styrene, and the
fish soon learn to find the clear water
If you cant find these things, may I suggest that you take 2 sheets of
'styrene of what you consider to be of adequate size for your pond. The
first sheet take and cut out one or more panels so that it looks like
the unfilled frame of a multi-panelled door. Using suitable adhesive,
fix the second sheet on top of the first sheet. Through the topsheet,
cut 1 inch holes to allow air into each of all the spaces in the lower
sheet. Tether the sheet to allow some movement.
HTH
Hi Bill,
Our small pond (roughly 6x6 ft) is about 28-30 inches
in the deepest part which is about 2x2 ft. It has never
completely frozen over, even when the air temp is
hovering at 0 deg F for days (some years).
We don't cover it except with a piece of fencing
to help protect from varmints/raptors etc.
I disconnect the "waterfall" and have the pump skim
water just below the surface. It runs all winter
long (all other seasons too).
We have never lost fish during winter months. I am
still constantly amazed!
I don't know how deep your pond is since you mention
that it is kind of shallow, but I think that the best
answer is probably to dig a deeper part if it
is feasible. That seems more practical than a
pond cover of the kind you describe.
A friend of mine brings the fish inside to a big tank
for the cold weather. That could be an option too.
Lou
In article <[email protected]>, Bill Stock
<[email protected]> wrote:
> I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It filled it
> with Styrofoam and double layered (both sides of OSB) each side with plastic
> sheeting. It was successful in that all the fish survived. (The pond is too
> shallow to leave it uncovered). The problem is that this thing weighs over
> 200 pounds, blocks the light for the fish/heating and leeches formaldehyde.
> It also trapped water, despite the double sheeting. I went to lift it off
> this spring and couldn't figure out why it was so frickin heavy. It had
> about 30 gallons of water trapped inside the bottom layers of plastic. :)
>
> I was thinking I could build something out of those Paltuf polycarbonate
> panels.Although I have no idea how heavy these things are compared to the
> OSB? Also building the access door would be a PITA given the corrugated
> nature of these panels?
>
> Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate panels? Any
> better ideas?
>
>
>
"Mark & Juanita" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:31:28 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Thanks Lou.
>>
>>"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:180920051558106705%[email protected]...
>>> Hi Bill,
>>>
> ... snip
> oo.
>>
>>I'm considering using a Stock tank as an indoor pond, depending on the
>>cost.
>>The pond fish from three years ago moved in and never left, so we're sort
>>of
>>maxed out on the aquariums (Tropical fish too).
>
> You may want to reconsider this. Stock tanks are made of galvanized
> steel; I have been told (don't know if this is old wive's tale or true)
> that galvanized containers will kill fish. This certainly occurred when
> we
> tried to put carp in Dad's stock tank at home, but that may only be
> coincidental; although when we put them in a stainless vat, they lived for
> quite a while.
>
Stock tanks are also available in plastic, though with extreme cold, that
might not be the best idea. I've seen some unbreakable plastic end up in
several pieces.
Koi, "goldfish" or other carp have lived happily in almost every galvanized
stock tank I've ever used to water a cow.
Covering with the elevated bubble wrap stuff and creating a current should
be enough. My river doesn't freeze over, something I'm reminded of every
winter when the dogs rejoin me - wet - on the path while I'm skiing.
"Bob G." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
>>>
>>Stock tanks are also available in plastic, though with extreme cold, that
>>might not be the best idea. I've seen some unbreakable plastic end up in
>>several pieces.
>>
>>Koi, "goldfish" or other carp have lived happily in almost every
>>galvanized
>>stock tank I've ever used to water a cow.
>>
>>Covering with the elevated bubble wrap stuff and creating a current should
>>be enough. My river doesn't freeze over, something I'm reminded of every
>>winter when the dogs rejoin me - wet - on the path while I'm skiing.
>>
> ----------------------------
> Couple of thoughts on this subject.... I have two ponds in the
> backyard ...and use a 100 gallon Stock tank for each for a biological
> filter... tanks were made by Rubbermaid and sold thru a Farm
> Store... Both of mine are now over 15 years old...no problem with them
> cracking etc ...YET ! anyway...
>
> BUT back to the OP's question... ? why not just place a small
> floating electric de-icing unit in the pond over the winter... (thats
> what I do...and never lost any fish).... my ponds vary in depth but
> both are under 24 inches deep at the deepest part... de icing units
> are not expensive to buy and to be truthful I did not see any increase
> in my electric usage...
>
> Located in Western Maryland...not the coldest climate but cold enough
> to freeze the ponds solid without the de-icers...
Thanks Bob, I've heard various stories about the pond deicers. You must have
one of the 1500 watt jobbies? I imagine anything smaller would freeze up
here.
I read about one guy in Sweeden who lets his pond freeze and then drills a
hole and removes about an inch of water. The air space between the ice and
the water prevents the rest of the pond from freezing solid.
> Bob G.
Have you considered a spa cover?
These are light so they can be easily removed, have high
R values to keep heating bills down in the winter, and are
strong enough that a child will not break it if they get on
top of it.
Art
"Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It filled it
> with Styrofoam and double layered (both sides of OSB) each side with plastic
> sheeting. It was successful in that all the fish survived. (The pond is too
> shallow to leave it uncovered). The problem is that this thing weighs over
> 200 pounds, blocks the light for the fish/heating and leeches formaldehyde.
> It also trapped water, despite the double sheeting. I went to lift it off
> this spring and couldn't figure out why it was so frickin heavy. It had
> about 30 gallons of water trapped inside the bottom layers of plastic. :)
>
> I was thinking I could build something out of those Paltuf polycarbonate
> panels.Although I have no idea how heavy these things are compared to the
> OSB? Also building the access door would be a PITA given the corrugated
> nature of these panels?
>
> Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate panels? Any
> better ideas?
>
>
>
Thanks Lou.
"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:180920051558106705%[email protected]...
> Hi Bill,
>
> Our small pond (roughly 6x6 ft) is about 28-30 inches
> in the deepest part which is about 2x2 ft. It has never
> completely frozen over, even when the air temp is
> hovering at 0 deg F for days (some years).
My pond is about 4*8 and the water is roughly 20" deep. Minus 30° F is not
uncommon here, but it varies quite a bit.
> We don't cover it except with a piece of fencing
> to help protect from varmints/raptors etc.
>
> I disconnect the "waterfall" and have the pump skim
> water just below the surface. It runs all winter
> long (all other seasons too).
I put an air bubbler and a heater (300W) under the cover last year to keep
an air hole open for gas exchange. I had the heater set for 39° (max density
of water), which I thought would be just enough to keep things from freezing
solid. But because my cover was so well insulated, the heater ran very
little and I never did get any ice. The biggest problem I had was
condensation, killed the air bubbler in short order.
> We have never lost fish during winter months. I am
> still constantly amazed!
Yeah, we were amazed to see them all in the Spring, considering they'd been
in the dark for six months with no food.
> I don't know how deep your pond is since you mention
> that it is kind of shallow, but I think that the best
> answer is probably to dig a deeper part if it
> is feasible. That seems more practical than a
> pond cover of the kind you describe.
>
> A friend of mine brings the fish inside to a big tank
> for the cold weather. That could be an option too.
I'm considering using a Stock tank as an indoor pond, depending on the cost.
The pond fish from three years ago moved in and never left, so we're sort of
maxed out on the aquariums (Tropical fish too).
> Lou
>
> In article <[email protected]>, Bill Stock
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It filled it
>> with Styrofoam and double layered (both sides of OSB) each side with
>> plastic
>> sheeting. It was successful in that all the fish survived. (The pond is
>> too
>> shallow to leave it uncovered). The problem is that this thing weighs
>> over
>> 200 pounds, blocks the light for the fish/heating and leeches
>> formaldehyde.
>> It also trapped water, despite the double sheeting. I went to lift it off
>> this spring and couldn't figure out why it was so frickin heavy. It had
>> about 30 gallons of water trapped inside the bottom layers of plastic. :)
>>
>> I was thinking I could build something out of those Paltuf polycarbonate
>> panels.Although I have no idea how heavy these things are compared to the
>> OSB? Also building the access door would be a PITA given the corrugated
>> nature of these panels?
>>
>> Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate panels? Any
>> better ideas?
>>
>>
>>
Same thickness, they are HEAVIER than the OSB
John
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 12:05:44 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]>
wrote:
>I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It filled it
>with Styrofoam and double layered (both sides of OSB) each side with plastic
>sheeting. It was successful in that all the fish survived. (The pond is too
>shallow to leave it uncovered). The problem is that this thing weighs over
>200 pounds, blocks the light for the fish/heating and leeches formaldehyde.
>It also trapped water, despite the double sheeting. I went to lift it off
>this spring and couldn't figure out why it was so frickin heavy. It had
>about 30 gallons of water trapped inside the bottom layers of plastic. :)
>
>I was thinking I could build something out of those Paltuf polycarbonate
>panels.Although I have no idea how heavy these things are compared to the
>OSB? Also building the access door would be a PITA given the corrugated
>nature of these panels?
>
>Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate panels? Any
>better ideas?
>
>
I would think you would be better served to look into greenhouse
panels. They are already insulated and sealed, you would just
create a simple frame - dado pocket for the panels. Depending on
temperatures, go for the 1" or more panels. Something similar to:
http://www.greenhouses-etc.net/glazing/twinwall.htm
Something more simple and cheaper would be to go to a pool supply
house for the industrial version of "bubble wrap". Similar to:
http://www.backyardcitypools.com/Pool-Covers-Solar-Blankets.htm
(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
[email protected]
"Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It
>filled it with Styrofoam and double layered (both sides of OSB)
>each side with plastic sheeting. It was successful in that all
>the fish survived. (The pond is too shallow to leave it
>uncovered). The problem is that this thing weighs over 200
>pounds, blocks the light for the fish/heating and leeches
>formaldehyde. It also trapped water, despite the double sheeting.
>I went to lift it off this spring and couldn't figure out why it
>was so frickin heavy. It had about 30 gallons of water trapped
>inside the bottom layers of plastic. :)
>
> I was thinking I could build something out of those Paltuf
> polycarbonate panels.Although I have no idea how heavy these
> things are compared to the OSB? Also building the access door
> would be a PITA given the corrugated nature of these panels?
>
> Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate
> panels? Any better ideas?
>
>
>
"DanG" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BOgXe.123751$Ji4.109509@fed1read03...
>I would think you would be better served to look into greenhouse panels.
>They are already insulated and sealed, you would just create a simple
>frame - dado pocket for the panels. Depending on temperatures, go for the
>1" or more panels. Something similar to:
> http://www.greenhouses-etc.net/glazing/twinwall.htm
Cool, but the shipping cost, yikes! Maybe I could find something similar
locally.
Re your dado idea. I was actually thinking of making my panels flush with
the frame (top & bottom) and sealing them up with silicon. But if 1" only
offers an R value of 3.5.
> Something more simple and cheaper would be to go to a pool supply house
> for the industrial version of "bubble wrap". Similar to:
> http://www.backyardcitypools.com/Pool-Covers-Solar-Blankets.htm
>
> (top posted for your convenience)
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Keep the whole world singing . . . .
> DanG (remove the sevens)
> [email protected]
>
>
>
> "Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>>I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It filled it
>>with Styrofoam and double layered (both sides of OSB) each side with
>>plastic sheeting. It was successful in that all the fish survived. (The
>>pond is too shallow to leave it uncovered). The problem is that this thing
>>weighs over 200 pounds, blocks the light for the fish/heating and leeches
>>formaldehyde. It also trapped water, despite the double sheeting. I went
>>to lift it off this spring and couldn't figure out why it was so frickin
>>heavy. It had about 30 gallons of water trapped inside the bottom layers
>>of plastic. :)
>>
>> I was thinking I could build something out of those Paltuf polycarbonate
>> panels.Although I have no idea how heavy these things are compared to the
>> OSB? Also building the access door would be a PITA given the corrugated
>> nature of these panels?
>>
>> Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate panels? Any
>> better ideas?
>>
>>
>>
>
>
"Greg L. Kimnach" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
"BS" == "claimed thusly:
BS> I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It filled it
>
BS> Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate panels? Any
BS> better ideas?
i have a small pond with koi, and in a valley in hinckley (outside
cleveland) it can get pretty darn cold.
i did plan to cover my pond, but found that by keeping water
moving, the koi were perfectly content in the 38" deep part of the
pond. (only one end that deep, rest of it is roughly 15".)
i was going to use the same type of cover i built for my sons'
10' x 8' sandbox:
i had built a cover out of 1.5"pvc (Ts and elbows) which were
assembled into a "gable" and i covered it with a tarp. light and
strong. (well, not strong enough to survive a 3 and 5 year olds'
imagination!) for the pond i would have used a heavy, transparent
plastic instead of the blue tarp.
better than polycarb panels? probably not. lighter? you bet!
Yeah, some Ponders build these:
http://www2.itexas.net/jdstone/hoops.htm
But, it's a heap warmer in Texas than it is here.
regards,
greg (non-hyphenated american)
--
Multiculturalism is a euphemism for national division
http://users.adelphia.net/~kimnach http://www.grc.nasa.gov
I opted for Betamax, the world for VHS;
I for Amiga, the world IBM clones.
Esküszünk, Esküszünk, hogy rabok tovább nem leszünk!
"BS" =3D=3D "claimed thusly:
BS> I built a cover for the pond last year out of 2x4s and OSB. It filled=
it=20
>=20
BS> Does anyone have experience working with these polycarbonate panels?=
Any=20
BS> better ideas?
i have a small pond with koi, and in a valley in hinckley (outside
cleveland) it can get pretty darn cold.
i did plan to cover my pond, but found that by keeping water
moving, the koi were perfectly content in the 38" deep part of the
pond. (only one end that deep, rest of it is roughly 15".)
i was going to use the same type of cover i built for my sons'
10' x 8' sandbox:
i had built a cover out of 1.5"pvc (Ts and elbows) which were
assembled into a "gable" and i covered it with a tarp. light and
strong. (well, not strong enough to survive a 3 and 5 year olds'
imagination!) for the pond i would have used a heavy, transparent
plastic instead of the blue tarp.
better than polycarb panels? probably not. lighter? you bet!
regards,
greg (non-hyphenated american)
--=20
Multiculturalism is a euphemism for national division
http://users.adelphia.net/~kimnach http://www.grc.nasa.gov
I opted for Betamax, the world for VHS;=20
I for Amiga, the world IBM clones.
Esk=FCsz=FCnk, Esk=FCsz=FCnk, hogy rabok tov=E1bb nem lesz=FCnk!
On Sun, 18 Sep 2005 16:31:28 -0400, "Bill Stock" <[email protected]> wrote:
>Thanks Lou.
>
>"loutent" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:180920051558106705%[email protected]...
>> Hi Bill,
>>
... snip
oo.
>
>I'm considering using a Stock tank as an indoor pond, depending on the cost.
>The pond fish from three years ago moved in and never left, so we're sort of
>maxed out on the aquariums (Tropical fish too).
You may want to reconsider this. Stock tanks are made of galvanized
steel; I have been told (don't know if this is old wive's tale or true)
that galvanized containers will kill fish. This certainly occurred when we
tried to put carp in Dad's stock tank at home, but that may only be
coincidental; although when we put them in a stainless vat, they lived for
quite a while.
>
... snip
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
>>
>Stock tanks are also available in plastic, though with extreme cold, that
>might not be the best idea. I've seen some unbreakable plastic end up in
>several pieces.
>
>Koi, "goldfish" or other carp have lived happily in almost every galvanized
>stock tank I've ever used to water a cow.
>
>Covering with the elevated bubble wrap stuff and creating a current should
>be enough. My river doesn't freeze over, something I'm reminded of every
>winter when the dogs rejoin me - wet - on the path while I'm skiing.
>
----------------------------
Couple of thoughts on this subject.... I have two ponds in the
backyard ...and use a 100 gallon Stock tank for each for a biological
filter... tanks were made by Rubbermaid and sold thru a Farm
Store... Both of mine are now over 15 years old...no problem with them
cracking etc ...YET ! anyway...
BUT back to the OP's question... ? why not just place a small
floating electric de-icing unit in the pond over the winter... (thats
what I do...and never lost any fish).... my ponds vary in depth but
both are under 24 inches deep at the deepest part... de icing units
are not expensive to buy and to be truthful I did not see any increase
in my electric usage...
Located in Western Maryland...not the coldest climate but cold enough
to freeze the ponds solid without the de-icers...
Bob G.