I'm fairly new to woodworking having recently built a pretty simple
"built-in" CD/DVD shelf unit which turned out a lot better than I
expected and got me interested in trying some more ambitious work.
Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the metal-filled
water from sharpening with waterstones. I have a couple of pretty
cheap chisels and planes that I tried to turn into something useful by
lapping the backs until they approximated a mirror and then sharpening
the bevel. I got a decent edge, although I definitely still need to
work on my technique as they seemed to dull very quickly.
Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
-- Keith
You could allow the water to evaporate, then take the filings to a recycler...
or if some of your trees need a shot of iron, water them with it. I just toss
it to the mesquite by my shop. It's not chelated, but it can't hurt. It'll just
rust away Tom
Keith wrote:
>Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
>with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
>what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
>flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
>Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -- Keith
Someday, it'll all be over....
In article <[email protected]>, Larry Bud
<[email protected]> wrote:
> You'll note that there are NO free iron ions. The iron combines with
> the oxygen. Nothing beside rust (2Fe2O3) is given off.
Which explains why a piece of iron gains mass as it rusts...
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
In article <[email protected]>, George
<[email protected]> wrote:
> But not what happens in the presence of other compounds.
Ask a chemist. AFAIK, iron react first with oxygen.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
In article <[email protected]>, George E. Cawthon
<[email protected]> wrote:
> So iron can't react unless there is oxygen present?
Iron can't form iron oxide (rust) unless there is oxygen present.
Sheesh.
djb
--
There are no socks in my email address.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Larry Bud wrote:
>
> > > Come on folks, these are iron filings, not iron ions. Unless my
> > > chemistry is getting rusty (pun intended!) I think this is a big
> > > wive's tale.
> >
> > How long do you think a "filing" will remain intact when subjected
> > to weather?
>
> Starting to get way off topic, but here's the formula for when iron
> rusts: (source: http://www.haverford.edu/educ/knight-booklet/mustitrust.htm)
>
> 4Fe + 3O2 = 2Fe2O3
>
> You'll note that there are NO free iron ions. The iron combines with
> the oxygen. Nothing beside rust (2Fe2O3) is given off.
I looked at the site and it doesn't provide much info and
anyway it is for kids so they keep it real simple. However,
the statement that vinegar is a strong acid is not correct
and definitely should not be in the discussion. Vinegar
(acetic acid) is a weak acid and should never have been
picked as the acid to use in the experiment because it
introduces complication that aren't stated. It was probably
picked because it is familiar and safe. For one thing, you
would have acetates of iron formed. And suggesting this is
equivalent to acid rain, is hardly true. The composition of
acid rain can be complex involving sulfur and nitrogen and
phosphate compounds.
All of this has nothing to do with what iron does in soil.
Soil is a very complicated system and the disintegration of
iron is likely to involve various biotics. Some ferric and
ferrous ions are likely to be free, but they will exist in a
system where exhange among various molecules may be rapid or
slow. But there will certainly be acetates,
nitrates/nitrites, phosphates, sulfates/sulfites and a whole
host of organics.
So iron can't react unless there is oxygen present?
Dave Balderstone wrote:
>
> In article <[email protected]>, George
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > But not what happens in the presence of other compounds.
>
> Ask a chemist. AFAIK, iron react first with oxygen.
>
> djb
>
> --
> There are no socks in my email address.
>
> "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
"Keith Amidon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm fairly new to woodworking having recently built a pretty simple
> "built-in" CD/DVD shelf unit which turned out a lot better than I
> expected and got me interested in trying some more ambitious work.
>
> Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the metal-filled
> water from sharpening with waterstones. I have a couple of pretty
> cheap chisels and planes that I tried to turn into something useful by
> lapping the backs until they approximated a mirror and then sharpening
> the bevel. I got a decent edge, although I definitely still need to
> work on my technique as they seemed to dull very quickly.
>
> Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
> with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
> what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
> flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
Actually, your flower beds might be very interested in having them.
Even plants need those trace elements and a fair amount of iron in
their systems.
One of the prettiest yards I've ever seen, the guy applied the dust
from a brake lathe every so often.
Hmmmmm, sounds like a description of - dirt.
Come to think, that's where it started, too.
"Keith Amidon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
> with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
> what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
> flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
"Larry Bud" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "John Keeney" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > "Keith Amidon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I'm fairly new to woodworking having recently built a pretty simple
> > > "built-in" CD/DVD shelf unit which turned out a lot better than I
> > > expected and got me interested in trying some more ambitious work.
> > >
> > > Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the metal-filled
> > > water from sharpening with waterstones. I have a couple of pretty
> > > cheap chisels and planes that I tried to turn into something useful by
> > > lapping the backs until they approximated a mirror and then sharpening
> > > the bevel. I got a decent edge, although I definitely still need to
> > > work on my technique as they seemed to dull very quickly.
> > >
> > > Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
> > > with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
> > > what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
> > > flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
> > > Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Actually, your flower beds might be very interested in having them.
> > Even plants need those trace elements and a fair amount of iron in
> > their systems.
> > One of the prettiest yards I've ever seen, the guy applied the dust
> > from a brake lathe every so often.
>
> Come on folks, these are iron filings, not iron ions. Unless my
> chemistry is getting rusty (pun intended!) I think this is a big
> wive's tale.
How long do you think a "filing" will remain intact when subjected
to weather?
> Trace elements, such as in fertilizer, break into ions (Nitrogen,
> etc). That's what the plants can absorb.
But not what happens in the presence of other compounds.
"Dave Balderstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:221220031520201127%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, Larry Bud
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > You'll note that there are NO free iron ions. The iron combines with
> > the oxygen. Nothing beside rust (2Fe2O3) is given off.
>
> Which explains why a piece of iron gains mass as it rusts...
>
> djb
>
> --
> There are no socks in my email address.
>
> "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
I live in iron country - none of what we mine is the oxide.
"Dave Balderstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:221220032336113932%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, George
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > But not what happens in the presence of other compounds.
>
> Ask a chemist. AFAIK, iron react first with oxygen.
>
> djb
>
> --
> There are no socks in my email address.
>
> "Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
And when you introduce soil and the chemicals/critters contained therein,
the process gets more complicated.
http://www.2the4.net/iron.htm
Which, back to the beginning, indicates that sludge from waterstones is
pretty much dirt.
"Andy Dingley" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On 22 Dec 2003 13:08:52 -0800, [email protected] (Larry Bud)
> wrote:
>
> >Starting to get way off topic, but here's the formula for when iron
> >rusts: (source:
http://www.haverford.edu/educ/knight-booklet/mustitrust.htm)
>
> That's so simplistic it's verging on the Just Plain Wrong
>
>
> (iron in water - just dump it - _anywhere_)
"John Keeney" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Keith Amidon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm fairly new to woodworking having recently built a pretty simple
> > "built-in" CD/DVD shelf unit which turned out a lot better than I
> > expected and got me interested in trying some more ambitious work.
> >
> > Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the metal-filled
> > water from sharpening with waterstones. I have a couple of pretty
> > cheap chisels and planes that I tried to turn into something useful by
> > lapping the backs until they approximated a mirror and then sharpening
> > the bevel. I got a decent edge, although I definitely still need to
> > work on my technique as they seemed to dull very quickly.
> >
> > Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
> > with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
> > what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
> > flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
> > Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Actually, your flower beds might be very interested in having them.
> Even plants need those trace elements and a fair amount of iron in
> their systems.
> One of the prettiest yards I've ever seen, the guy applied the dust
> from a brake lathe every so often.
Come on folks, these are iron filings, not iron ions. Unless my
chemistry is getting rusty (pun intended!) I think this is a big
wive's tale.
Trace elements, such as in fertilizer, break into ions (Nitrogen,
etc). That's what the plants can absorb.
Here's one more - the ionization state of iron makes a difference!
"Greg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Come on folks, these are iron filings, not iron ions.
>
> They tell you to stick a nail in the pot with African Violets so there
must be
> something to adding iron. Perhaps the environment breaks iron into ion
when the
> "R"ust comes out.
> > Come on folks, these are iron filings, not iron ions. Unless my
> > chemistry is getting rusty (pun intended!) I think this is a big
> > wive's tale.
>
> How long do you think a "filing" will remain intact when subjected
> to weather?
Starting to get way off topic, but here's the formula for when iron
rusts: (source: http://www.haverford.edu/educ/knight-booklet/mustitrust.htm)
4Fe + 3O2 = 2Fe2O3
You'll note that there are NO free iron ions. The iron combines with
the oxygen. Nothing beside rust (2Fe2O3) is given off.
On 22 Dec 2003 13:08:52 -0800, [email protected] (Larry Bud)
wrote:
>Starting to get way off topic, but here's the formula for when iron
>rusts: (source: http://www.haverford.edu/educ/knight-booklet/mustitrust.htm)
That's so simplistic it's verging on the Just Plain Wrong
(iron in water - just dump it - _anywhere_)
On 21 Dec 2003 07:45:33 -0800, [email protected] (Larry Bud)
brought forth from the murky depths:
>Come on folks, these are iron filings, not iron ions. Unless my
>chemistry is getting rusty (pun intended!) I think this is a big
>wive's tale.
>
>Trace elements, such as in fertilizer, break into ions (Nitrogen,
>etc). That's what the plants can absorb.
A lady friend tossed an old sack of nails under my favorite rose
bush in Vista about 15 years ago and it started producing larger,
prettier roses about a year later, and it stayed in bloom longer
in those years. I disbelieved the tales until then.
Manmade iron parts DO break down into usable elements for plants.
==========================================================
I drank WHAT? + http://www.diversify.com
--Socrates + Web Application Programming
"Keith Amidon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm fairly new to woodworking having recently built a pretty simple
> "built-in" CD/DVD shelf unit which turned out a lot better than I
> expected and got me interested in trying some more ambitious work.
>
> Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the metal-filled
> water from sharpening with waterstones. I have a couple of pretty
> cheap chisels and planes that I tried to turn into something useful by
> lapping the backs until they approximated a mirror and then sharpening
> the bevel. I got a decent edge, although I definitely still need to
> work on my technique as they seemed to dull very quickly.
>
> Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
> with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
> what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
> flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -- Keith
Most rose bushes & hardy shrubs love rusty water, stir it up & pour a small
circle about six inches around the roots area.
--
© Jon Down ®
http://www.stores.ebay.com/jdpowertoolcanada
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:43:41 +0000, Bert & Eileen Plank wrote:
> Easy, drop a magnet in the bucket and slosh it around, wait until the next
> day and pour the water on the ground, take out the magnet and give it a few
> rubs with a stiff brush to get the filings off of it over a garbage can.
>
> Bert
Even better, turn a small plastic bag (Glad bag) wrong side out and put
the magnet in it. When it picks up the filings just grab the top of the
bag and lift the magnet out, seal the bag and throw it away. That way you
don't end up with a magnet with a slurry of metal on it.
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:kH3K7XvWbYQJ:soilcrop.tamu.edu/publications/pubs/l5241.pdf+plants+need+iron&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
"Keith Amidon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
> with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
> what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
> flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -- Keith
>
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 06:00:01 GMT, Keith Amidon
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'm fairly new to woodworking having recently built a pretty simple
>"built-in" CD/DVD shelf unit which turned out a lot better than I
>expected and got me interested in trying some more ambitious work.
>
>Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the metal-filled
>water from sharpening with waterstones. I have a couple of pretty
>cheap chisels and planes that I tried to turn into something useful by
>lapping the backs until they approximated a mirror and then sharpening
>the bevel. I got a decent edge, although I definitely still need to
>work on my technique as they seemed to dull very quickly.
>
>Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
>with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
>what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
>flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
>Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -- Keith
How much metal are we talking about? I dump mine on the grass or
flowerbeds, and I've got a very nice lawn and gardens. Some iron (or
other metals) is actually very good for plants. Don't dump it all in
one spot, I usually toss the dirty water 30 feet.
Keith, Your roses will love it.
"Keith Amidon" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I'm fairly new to woodworking having recently built a pretty simple
> "built-in" CD/DVD shelf unit which turned out a lot better than I
> expected and got me interested in trying some more ambitious work.
>
> Right now I'm trying to figure out what to do with the metal-filled
> water from sharpening with waterstones. I have a couple of pretty
> cheap chisels and planes that I tried to turn into something useful by
> lapping the backs until they approximated a mirror and then sharpening
> the bevel. I got a decent edge, although I definitely still need to
> work on my technique as they seemed to dull very quickly.
>
> Anyway, when I was done (believe me, it took a long time), I was left
> with a container full of water and metal filings, which I can't decide
> what to do with. It doesn't seem like it would be good for the
> flowerbeds or the sewer system. I'm really curious what others do.
> Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
>
> -- Keith
>
Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> A lady friend tossed an old sack of nails under my favorite rose
> bush in Vista about 15 years ago and it started producing larger,
> prettier roses about a year later, and it stayed in bloom longer
> in those years. I disbelieved the tales until then.
>
> Manmade iron parts DO break down into usable elements for plants.
You should see the weeds growing in the out door scrap pile. Must be
good for plants. <g>
--
Mark
N.E. Ohio
Never argue with a fool, a bystander can't tell you apart. (S. Clemens,
A.K.A. Mark Twain)
When in doubt hit the throttle. It may not help but it sure ends the
suspense. (Gaz, r.moto)