On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 19:13:46 -0400, "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> wrote:
>I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or better
>fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough,
>almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the second
>story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have prevented
>that?
>
>The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happened
>with screws? Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
>
>I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
>strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
>
>Do folks have storm shelters around thre?
>
>
A storm that can drive wheet straw right through a cedar hydro pole
can do just about anything it wants to - no matter WHAT you do.
Grey concrete bricks with pink fiberglass insulation imbedded ALL THE
WAY THROUGH, anyone???
That's just 2 interesting observations from the Woodstock Ontario
tornado back in the late '70s
On Mar 30, 1:10=A0pm, GarageWoodworks <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Mar 29, 1:09=A0pm, GarageWoodworks <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> > From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. =A0A
> > total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> > Scary stuff.
>
> > Pictures from a nearby
>
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tornado
> My local rag ran a story on the twister today w/ a damage path.
> it's in our paper today for those that want to read about it.
A link might help.
http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/03/30/article/caught_in_the_whirlwi=
nd
On Mar 29, 1:09=A0pm, GarageWoodworks <[email protected]>
wrote:
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. =A0A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Scary stuff.
>
> Pictures from a nearby
http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tornado
My local rag ran a story on the twister today w/ a damage path.
it's in our paper today for those that want to read about it.
On Mar 30, 8:13=A0pm, GarageWoodworks <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On Mar 30, 7:55=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > GarageWoodworks wrote:
>
> > ...
>
> > >> My local rag ran a story on the twister today w/ a damage path.
> > >> it's in our paper today for those that want to read about it.
>
> > > A link might help.
>
> > >http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/03/30/article/caught_in_the_w.=
..
>
> > Certainly glad nobody hurt...
>
> > <http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/greensburgh1.jpg>
>
> > Partial shot of what Greensburg looked like shortly (like several weeks=
,
> > I'd guess, didn't see an indication when the photo was actually taken
> > but there's been a ton of debris hauled off before this was taken--it
> > was impossible to drive virtually anywhere immediately after).
>
> > I went up (it's about 80 miles from us) early the morning after and cam=
e
> > up the south end of main street which is a mile east of the main highwa=
y
> > that was blocked off. =A0Once to the damage area in town, you couldn't
> > tell which was street and which was block--the debris field was 3-ft
> > deep essentially uniform. =A0Damage was so complete locals couldn't eve=
n
> > recognize which block/intersection was which much of the time.
>
> > Spent that day helping several folks recover enough belongings to be
> > able to make it to relatives or motels that evening and many of the nex=
t
> > several weeks as could in cleanup...after the second day they cordoned
> > off the entire community and only through qualified organizations were
> > anybody allowed in/out for about two months or maybe even longer...
>
> > Link to a storm chasers' page who chased it back north from OK/TX from
> > about Coldwater,KS, where he first saw it about 40 miles S of Greensbur=
g.
>
> > <http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/may4-2007Greensburg-Kansas-tornado..=
..>
>
> > It'll be a while 'afore I'll be forgettin' this-here 'un...this is thir=
d
> > year coming up and I've become much more diligent about my storm spotte=
r
> > training and making sure the weather radio has batteries...
>
> > --
>
> Very sad. =A0It doesn't get any worse than what happened in Greensburg.
>
We used to live in Wichita, about 1.5 hours east of Greensburg.
Before the tornado we used to drive through from time to time on the
way to Colorado or New Mexico. It was a pretty town and we always
thought the Green part of their name went with the hundreds of big
trees all around the town. The big feature of Greenburg was the
largest hand-dug will in a park a few blocks off of the highway. A
very pretty town and park.
We dove through on the way to Taos in October of '08 and it almost
made us cry. From the highway you could see the horizon in all
directions. No houses, few buildings and all of the trees were
stripped and destroyed. Besides a concrete grain elevator that
survived the storm most of the above ground structures were tents and
temporary buildings put up by disaster workers. There were a few
starts on new homes.
If good comes from disaster, Greensburg might well become the model
for green communities. With the help of some organizations, the
government and a few celebrities they have committed to incorporate
green technology into their rebuild. This has come at the expense of
a few long-time residents who apparently are having difficulty
affording some of their new building standards. Time will tell.
RonB
On Mar 30, 12:17=A0pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/29/2010 7:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> > I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or be=
tter
> > fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enou=
gh,
> > almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the se=
cond
> > story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have preve=
nted
> > that?
>
> > The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happe=
ned
> > with screws? =A0Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
>
> > I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
> > strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
>
> > Do folks have storm shelters around thre?
>
> It's possible to build reasonably priced houses that can survive
> hurricanes with little damage. =A0But if you want a house that will
> survive an f4 tornado unscathed you're talking steel plate or heavy
> reinforced concrete all around, pressure doors, and heavy laminated
> bulleproof glass. =A0The kind of place that nobody but the very rich coul=
d
> afford, even as a rental.
That is right. The F5 that passed through the neighborhood south of
us, and then on to Andover, literally leveled the neighborhood. This
was an area we used to walk in during evenings. After the tornado, we
literally couldn't identify any landmarks. Houses were gone, trees,
large trees, were mowed off about 10-15 feet above ground level.
You can't build for that.
RonB
On Mar 31, 9:48=A0am, Larry Jaques <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:31:49 -0400, the infamous "Lee Michaels"
> <leemichaels*[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>
>
>
> >"Larry Jaques" =A0wrote
>
> >> Sure you can. =A0Think "cement domes" and only replace a window or two=
.
>
> >Look at these guys.
>
> >http://www.aidomes.com/
>
> Man, what a POS website, though. =A02/3 of the screen is menu, header,
> and pic. =A0The slideshow doesn't work, the store doesn't work... It's
> damaging their business. =A0<sigh>
>
> >They use cast cement panel construction of domes. =A0You assemble them o=
n a
> >framework. Then cast cement into all the joints. Smooth and paint. =A0Th=
e
> >structure is very strong. I really can't think of a natural force that c=
ould
> >destroy it.
>
> Yeah, cement is one tough nut for Mother Nature to crack. =A0Have you
> seen the inflatable dome style? =A0They blow up a balloon and shoot
> 'crete over it. =A0It's a one-piece cast, prolly stronger than AI.http://=
www.monolithic.com/topics/homesis one maker. I like their
> low-key video. (std disclaimer applies)
Very cool! I like those a lot.
>
> --
> May those who love us, love us;
> And may those that don't love us,
> May God turn their hearts;
> And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
> may he turn their ankles,
> So we'll know them by their limping.
> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--old Gaelic blessing
I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or better
fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough,
almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the second
story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have prevented
that?
The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happened
with screws? Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
Do folks have storm shelters around thre?
"GarageWoodworks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:86fdeb83-2a98-4046-9afa-f77e70d7efad@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 29, 6:13 pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or
> better
> fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough,
> almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the
> second
> story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have
> prevented
> that?
>
> The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happened
> with screws? Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
>
> I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
> strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
>
> Do folks have storm shelters around thre?
No storm shelters, but wish I had one now.
=============
Well there ya go, your next project.
I can see it now, an internal gazebo like structure made from Ipe with teak
inlays. All the corners will be mitered half lap joints. Ya make it big
enough, use enough of that heavy tropical wood, the wind wouldn't dare blow
it away!
And you can make another video! ;-)
On 2010-03-29 20:13:14 -0400, GarageWoodworks
<[email protected]> said:
> Thanks Mike. I determined the path of the tornado and the closest it
> came to me was probably around a mile.
>
> Scary shit. I'd post a picture of the path, but I don't want to
> broadcast where I live. :^)
Hope you don't live near a trailer park!
Got family in Davidson Co. but it doesn't look like they were anywhere
near the storm.
"Larry Jaques" wrote
>
> Sure you can. Think "cement domes" and only replace a window or two.
>
Look at these guys.
http://www.aidomes.com/
They use cast cement panel construction of domes. You assemble them on a
framework. Then cast cement into all the joints. Smooth and paint. The
structure is very strong. I really can't think of a natural force that could
destroy it.
Bucky ball homes are nice. Just bolt them down to the ground!
A friend didn't have it done and during an earthquake - it
slide sideways and off the foundation.
Friends helped pick up the unit and move it back. Wasn't to far gone.
He and his wife moved out of earthquake country in a matter of days.
Martin
Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Lee Michaels" wrote
>
>> Look at these guys.
>>
>> http://www.aidomes.com/
> -----------------------------
>
> Buckminster Fuller geodetic dome time.
>
> Lew
>
>
>
On Wed, 31 Mar 2010 00:31:49 -0400, the infamous "Lee Michaels"
<leemichaels*nadaspam*@comcast.net> scrawled the following:
>
>"Larry Jaques" wrote
>>
>> Sure you can. Think "cement domes" and only replace a window or two.
>>
>Look at these guys.
>
>http://www.aidomes.com/
Man, what a POS website, though. 2/3 of the screen is menu, header,
and pic. The slideshow doesn't work, the store doesn't work... It's
damaging their business. <sigh>
>They use cast cement panel construction of domes. You assemble them on a
>framework. Then cast cement into all the joints. Smooth and paint. The
>structure is very strong. I really can't think of a natural force that could
>destroy it.
Yeah, cement is one tough nut for Mother Nature to crack. Have you
seen the inflatable dome style? They blow up a balloon and shoot
'crete over it. It's a one-piece cast, prolly stronger than AI.
http://www.monolithic.com/topics/homes is one maker. I like their
low-key video. (std disclaimer applies)
--
May those who love us, love us;
And may those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts;
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.
--old Gaelic blessing
On Mar 29, 7:30=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> "GarageWoodworks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:86fdeb83-2a98-4046-9afa-f77e70d7efad@g28g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 29, 6:13 pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or
> > better
> > fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enou=
gh,
> > almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the
> > second
> > story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have
> > prevented
> > that?
>
> > The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happe=
ned
> > with screws? Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
>
> > I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
> > strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
>
> > Do folks have storm shelters around thre?
>
> No storm shelters, but wish I had one now.
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>
> Well there ya go, your next project.
>
> I can see it now, an internal gazebo like structure made from Ipe with te=
ak
> inlays. =A0All the corners will be mitered half lap joints. Ya make it bi=
g
> enough, use enough of that heavy tropical wood, the wind wouldn't dare bl=
ow
> it away!
>
> And you can make another video! ;-)
Lol. Now you're talking! ;^)
On Mar 29, 7:10=A0pm, -MIKE- <[email protected]> wrote:
> Glad you're ok and didn't lose anything.
>
> --
>
> =A0 -MIKE-
>
> =A0 "Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
> =A0 =A0 =A0--Elvin Jones =A0(1927-2004)
> =A0 --
> =A0http://mikedrums.com
> =A0 [email protected]
> =A0 ---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Thanks Mike. I determined the path of the tornado and the closest it
came to me was probably around a mile.
Scary shit. I'd post a picture of the path, but I don't want to
broadcast where I live. :^)
On Mar 29, 11:09=A0am, GarageWoodworks <[email protected]>
wrote:
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. =A0A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Scary stuff.
>
> Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tor=
nado
Glad you're okay.
Mother Nature can be an evil b****, when she wants to!
When it's THAT close, though, almost inevitably ... you know
somebody ... or ... somebody who knows somebody.
Hope the damage was minimal, the injuries were less, and the recovery
quick!
On Mar 29, 6:13=A0pm, "Lee Michaels" <leemichaels*[email protected]>
wrote:
> I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or bett=
er
> fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough=
,
> almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the seco=
nd
> story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have prevent=
ed
> that?
>
> The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happene=
d
> with screws? =A0Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
>
> I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
> strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
>
> Do folks have storm shelters around thre?
No storm shelters, but wish I had one now.
On Mar 29, 3:02=A0pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 3/29/2010 12:09 PM, GarageWoodworks wrote:
>
> > =A0From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tornado 2-3 miles from my home. =
=A0A
> > total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Two to three miles is just about the right distance...
>
Absolutely! It was the closest I've ever been to one. I should
correct my original post. A total of 8 touched down including the
surrounding areas.
> Keep up the good work! :)
>
> --
> Morris Dovey
> DeSoto Solar
> DeSoto, Iowa USAhttp://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
"GarageWoodworks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:77c952be-3cc4-44b9-93e5-b20ac923817f@v20g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
now.
>> =============
>>
>> Well there ya go, your next project.
>>
>> I can see it now, an internal gazebo like structure made from
>> Ipe with teak
>> inlays. All the corners will be mitered half lap joints. Ya
>> make it big
>> enough, use enough of that heavy tropical wood, the wind
>> wouldn't dare blow
>> it away!
>>
>> And you can make another video! ;-)
>
>
> Lol. Now you're talking! ;^)
In 1988, a big one passed through Raleigh. It hit a Kmart on
Glenwood Ave, then skipped in a NE direction across town. The
closest it came to where we were living was about 1/2 mile, but it
split the distance between where we were living and the home we
were building. Talk about hurrying up the next AM and driving as
quickly as I could to the home under construction.
As it turned out, there was no damage to either our rental place
or the house we were building- thank goodness
--
Nonny
Suppose you were an idiot.
And suppose you were a member
of Congress.... But then I repeat myself.'
-Mark Twain
.
On Mar 30, 7:55=A0pm, dpb <[email protected]> wrote:
> GarageWoodworks wrote:
>
> ...
>
> >> My local rag ran a story on the twister today w/ a damage path.
> >> it's in our paper today for those that want to read about it.
>
> > A link might help.
>
> >http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/03/30/article/caught_in_the_w...
>
> Certainly glad nobody hurt...
>
> <http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/greensburgh1.jpg>
>
> Partial shot of what Greensburg looked like shortly (like several weeks,
> I'd guess, didn't see an indication when the photo was actually taken
> but there's been a ton of debris hauled off before this was taken--it
> was impossible to drive virtually anywhere immediately after).
>
> I went up (it's about 80 miles from us) early the morning after and came
> up the south end of main street which is a mile east of the main highway
> that was blocked off. =A0Once to the damage area in town, you couldn't
> tell which was street and which was block--the debris field was 3-ft
> deep essentially uniform. =A0Damage was so complete locals couldn't even
> recognize which block/intersection was which much of the time.
>
> Spent that day helping several folks recover enough belongings to be
> able to make it to relatives or motels that evening and many of the next
> several weeks as could in cleanup...after the second day they cordoned
> off the entire community and only through qualified organizations were
> anybody allowed in/out for about two months or maybe even longer...
>
> Link to a storm chasers' page who chased it back north from OK/TX from
> about Coldwater,KS, where he first saw it about 40 miles S of Greensburg.
>
> <http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/may4-2007Greensburg-Kansas-tornado....=
>
>
> It'll be a while 'afore I'll be forgettin' this-here 'un...this is third
> year coming up and I've become much more diligent about my storm spotter
> training and making sure the weather radio has batteries...
>
> --
Very sad. It doesn't get any worse than what happened in Greensburg.
I did more driving around today with the wife and kids and saw more
damage (no camera this time). I saw buses that were thrown across the
street and homes pushed off of there foundations. I also saw a brick
home that had the front bricks stripped off (I guess it was a brick
facade?). It is very sad driving around the homes. I don't know if
I'd even feel comfortable taking more pictures. It's too much to
stomach.
I drove out today to the nearest point that the twister came to me and
used my GPS to calculate the distance to my house and it was 0.75
miles!!!!!!
On 3/29/2010 6:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
> I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or better
> fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough,
> almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the second
> story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have prevented
> that?
One of the big things in high wind areas is the proper installation of
"shear walls" for resistance to lateral forces, aka wind and earthquakes
... we even have a separate inspection for that here, and it gets all
the way down to the nitty gritty of the nailing patterns on the
overlapping sheathing between the first and second floor exterior walls.
Most definitely something to take into consideration when designing a
structure, as every little bit or mitigation helps.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 10/22/08
KarlC@ (the obvious)
GarageWoodworks <[email protected]> wrote in news:cd13e8e7-237f-
[email protected]:
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Scary stuff.
>
> Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tornado
Indeed glad it missed you!
Here in Bergen county, NJ, we had a big storm 3 weeks ago. Lost power for
longer than I cared (~28 hours), but some people lost it for almost a week.
Many trees down, a few deaths in the tristate area due to falling trees
mostly. Then the flooding, many homes. Now since Sunday we are again
having torrential rains (for the area). They are expecting like 6 inches
before it stops, and the ground is totally saturated, so there will be big
time flooding again. Luckily, we are fairly high, and don't expect
flooding, except for perhaps a few damp spots in the basement (keeping
fingers crossed).
--
Best regards
Han
email address is invalid
On Mar 29, 12:09=A0pm, GarageWoodworks <[email protected]>
wrote:
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. =A0A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Scary stuff.
>
> Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tor=
nado
Glad you got through it. Those things do weird things. Wichita and
Andover Kansas was hit by an F5 during the early 90's that tore up
McConnell AFB, southeast Wichita and decimated the south part of
Andover. We watched it move across the southern horizon for 10-15
minutes before heading to the basement. It hit a friends house just
east of us and took one end out of the living area and removed two
walls from his garage shop. He never found his floor drill press and
his Unisaw was about three blocks from the house inside of another
house. His work bench was completely in tact. The mason jar full of
mineral spirits was on the bench, and the paint brushes he used a
couple of nights before were still hanging over the edge of his bench
beside his stale, half full coffee cup.
While we were helping clean up their mess, a neighbor walked over and
said "come over to our place. I want to show you something." His
house was moderately damaged but livable. He led us into laundry room
and said "Look in the dryer." I thought "What the hell!" But when I
opened the dryer door the engine head of a Ryobi weed eater was in the
dryer. The rest of it was sticking out through the back of the dryer
and the cutting head was protruding through the siding outside of the
house. We extracted the machine and it was in surprisingly good
condition.
RonB
On Mar 29, 12:09=A0pm, GarageWoodworks <[email protected]>
wrote:
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. =A0A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Scary stuff.
>
> Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tor=
nado
FYI the tornado has been confirmed an EF3 by the National Weather
Service Center.
Watch this video and at -1:00 you can see my yellow hummer:
http://www.myfox8.com/wghp-tornadoes-100328,0,7571743.story
"GarageWoodworks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:cd13e8e7-237f-419d-ad98-5186e1042fcf@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com...
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Scary stuff.
>
> Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tornado
incredible. took the roof and walls off, left the picture hanging on the
last wall.
Glad you're o.k.
jc
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 20:33:38 -0500, the infamous Swingman
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On 3/29/2010 6:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>> I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or better
>> fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough,
>> almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the second
>> story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have prevented
>> that?
Most of those houses looked like they only lost pieces of roofing in
the center of the roof or room, rather than the top half of the house.
Most probably did have the hurricane ties in 'em. When windows got
hit and blew out, so did the roofs.
>One of the big things in high wind areas is the proper installation of
>"shear walls" for resistance to lateral forces, aka wind and earthquakes
>... we even have a separate inspection for that here, and it gets all
>the way down to the nitty gritty of the nailing patterns on the
>overlapping sheathing between the first and second floor exterior walls.
>
>Most definitely something to take into consideration when designing a
>structure, as every little bit or mitigation helps.
Do you use the Simpson Strong-Wall(tm) shear wall panels in those,
Swingy?
--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 17:11:55 -0700 (PDT), the infamous RonB
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>On Mar 30, 12:17 pm, "J. Clarke" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 3/29/2010 7:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
>>
>> > I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or better
>> > fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough,
>> > almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the second
>> > story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have prevented
>> > that?
>>
>> > The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happened
>> > with screws? Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
>>
>> > I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
>> > strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
>>
>> > Do folks have storm shelters around thre?
>>
>> It's possible to build reasonably priced houses that can survive
>> hurricanes with little damage. But if you want a house that will
>> survive an f4 tornado unscathed you're talking steel plate or heavy
>> reinforced concrete all around, pressure doors, and heavy laminated
>> bulleproof glass. The kind of place that nobody but the very rich could
>> afford, even as a rental.
>
>That is right. The F5 that passed through the neighborhood south of
>us, and then on to Andover, literally leveled the neighborhood. This
>was an area we used to walk in during evenings. After the tornado, we
>literally couldn't identify any landmarks. Houses were gone, trees,
>large trees, were mowed off about 10-15 feet above ground level.
>
>You can't build for that.
Sure you can. Think "cement domes" and only replace a window or two.
--
May those who love us, love us;
And may those that don't love us,
May God turn their hearts;
And if he doesn't turn their hearts,
may he turn their ankles,
So we'll know them by their limping.
--old Gaelic blessing
Joe wrote:
> "GarageWoodworks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:cd13e8e7-237f-419d-ad98-5186e1042fcf@t23g2000yqt.googlegroups.com...
>> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. A
>> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>>
>> Scary stuff.
>>
>> Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:
>> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tornado
>
> incredible. took the roof and walls off, left the picture hanging on the
> last wall.
...
It is amazing what can be left amid destruction -- I've seen sheet music
still on the piano at the page it was left when room walls/ceiling gone
around it.
NOAA has gone to an "enhanced Fujita" rating system -- same idea, just
updated estimates based on more detailed damage comparisons over time.
I'd guess this would equate to EF-2, not EF-3 or just barely 3-level.
(From tornado alley country...)
--
On 3/29/2010 12:09 PM, GarageWoodworks wrote:
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tornado 2-3 miles from my home. A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
Two to three miles is just about the right distance...
Keep up the good work! :)
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
GarageWoodworks wrote:
> On Mar 29, 3:02 pm, Morris Dovey <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 3/29/2010 12:09 PM, GarageWoodworks wrote:
>>
>>> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tornado 2-3 miles from my home. A
>>> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>> Two to three miles is just about the right distance...
>>
>
> Absolutely! It was the closest I've ever been to one. I should
> correct my original post. A total of 8 touched down including the
> surrounding areas.
...
Agreed...fortunately, the house/farmstead has never suffered more than a
very tiny one that moved one silo (rotated it on foundation about a
foot) but they've been all around over the years.
And, btw, the previous post only intended as comment on the new rating
system; any are big enough to not want to mess with and certainly if one
takes _your_ house it's entirely too big... :(
Son the elder is in Raleigh but didn't seem too bad there last night;
just some t-storms. Didn't hear of any injuries, fortunately???
Season is just 'round the corner for us'ns...first thunder of spring
night before last (not counting the thunder snow of about a couple of
weeks earlier, anyway)...
Severe weather watcher annual training/refresher meetings/sessions
underway for storm spotters; think mine is next week---really ought to
double-check on that...
--
Glad you're ok and didn't lose anything.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
Lee Michaels wrote:
> I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or better
> fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough,
> almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the second
> story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have prevented
> that?
From this one, quite likely I'd say judging from the level of damage
(not terribly extensive, just serious).
The consequences have a lot to do w/ shape as well and I wondered on the
one of the second floor it it wasn't somewhat unusual initially--perhaps
not, but it made me wonder what it was initially.
> The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happened
> with screws? Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
Looked like vinyl -- it'll shred and tear w/ very little wind,
comparatively, irrespective of the fastener.
> I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
> strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
In general, they have very benign weather there -- generally far enough
inland to avoid worst of hurricanes and tornadoes are pretty uncommon.
--
On 3/29/2010 6:56 PM, GarageWoodworks wrote:
> No storm shelters, but wish I had one now.
It's not an elegant solution, but winner in the catagory of "easy,
inexpensive, and effective" is a 30-36" drain tile set vertically into
the ground with the "bell" end down. Pour a four-inch concrete floor
with a pair of rebar handles (think: fancy fox-hole). If you have small
fry, use a tile big enough to hold an adult holding a child. Make a
wooden lid to keep rain and critters (and kids) out when not in use.
If you never need it, the cost is small - but if you do need it, discard
the lid, jump in, grab a handle, and keep head(s) below ground level.
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
Lee Michaels wrote:
...
> I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
> strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
...
Actually, it's interesting in that often the very old survive better
than new as construction in the '20s often was much stouter than tract
housing of the post-war era which tended to get faster/cheaper
continuously until, as you suggest, changes in local Codes forced some
areas back into better-suited detailing (as Swing notes as well)...
I was prompted to add this note by his comment and the previous comment
on shape affecting damage as well as the age...
In the Greensburg, KS, EF-5, one of the strongest ever observed, it
completely flattened 95% of the entire town (path was dead-center of
town, 1-1/2 mile wide destructive funnel). The few dwelling structures
that did stand at all in the path were a handful small, square one-story
hip-roofed houses and a single 2-story expensively built '20s-era full
brick construction house that only lost a portion of roof and the add-on
porches, etc.
It appears that the 4-sided roof shape of the small houses and their
small size was pretty effective in minimizing the damaging forces while
the brick walls were simply so stout as to keep walls intact even though
damage was extensive enough it was razed. The typical ranch-style was
simply flattened to the slab almost universally w/ only an occasional
exterior wall or tow here or there or the interior walls in some small
rooms/halls such as closets and/or bathrooms that had some initial
protection.
--
On 3/29/2010 7:13 PM, Lee Michaels wrote:
> I am really curious as to the effect of having hurricane ties and/or better
> fasteners would have had on those houses. I know, you get hit hard enough,
> almost nothing will standu up tothe force. But I saw houses that the second
> story was removed. Would a stonger tie-in to the first story have prevented
> that?
>
> The houses with the siding gone made me wonder if that would have happened
> with screws? Maybe the wind would have just bent them all up.
>
> I assume if big storms happen there that building codes would have been
> strengthened recently. Older houses would not have the improvements.
>
> Do folks have storm shelters around thre?
It's possible to build reasonably priced houses that can survive
hurricanes with little damage. But if you want a house that will
survive an f4 tornado unscathed you're talking steel plate or heavy
reinforced concrete all around, pressure doors, and heavy laminated
bulleproof glass. The kind of place that nobody but the very rich could
afford, even as a rental.
GarageWoodworks wrote:
...
>> My local rag ran a story on the twister today w/ a damage path.
>> it's in our paper today for those that want to read about it.
>
> A link might help.
>
> http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/03/30/article/caught_in_the_whirlwind
Certainly glad nobody hurt...
<http://www.inhabitat.com/wp-content/uploads/greensburgh1.jpg>
Partial shot of what Greensburg looked like shortly (like several weeks,
I'd guess, didn't see an indication when the photo was actually taken
but there's been a ton of debris hauled off before this was taken--it
was impossible to drive virtually anywhere immediately after).
I went up (it's about 80 miles from us) early the morning after and came
up the south end of main street which is a mile east of the main highway
that was blocked off. Once to the damage area in town, you couldn't
tell which was street and which was block--the debris field was 3-ft
deep essentially uniform. Damage was so complete locals couldn't even
recognize which block/intersection was which much of the time.
Spent that day helping several folks recover enough belongings to be
able to make it to relatives or motels that evening and many of the next
several weeks as could in cleanup...after the second day they cordoned
off the entire community and only through qualified organizations were
anybody allowed in/out for about two months or maybe even longer...
Link to a storm chasers' page who chased it back north from OK/TX from
about Coldwater,KS, where he first saw it about 40 miles S of Greensburg.
<http://www.hprcc.unl.edu/nebraska/may4-2007Greensburg-Kansas-tornado.html>
It'll be a while 'afore I'll be forgettin' this-here 'un...this is third
year coming up and I've become much more diligent about my storm spotter
training and making sure the weather radio has batteries...
--
GarageWoodworks wrote:
...
> Very sad. It doesn't get any worse than what happened in Greensburg.
>
> I did more driving around today with the wife and kids and saw more
> damage (no camera this time). I saw buses that were thrown across the
> street and homes pushed off of there foundations. I also saw a brick
> home that had the front bricks stripped off (I guess it was a brick
> facade?). It is very sad driving around the homes. I don't know if
> I'd even feel comfortable taking more pictures. It's too much to
> stomach.
>
> I drove out today to the nearest point that the twister came to me and
> used my GPS to calculate the distance to my house and it was 0.75
> miles!!!!!!
Only thing that would have made it worse would have been for Greensburg
to have been a much larger place than it was/is so there would have been
more population affected...in a way it was fortunate the G'burg was only
a 1500-population little town even though it took out most of the town.
Speaking of moving things, there was a full-size Buick on the roof of
the Courthouse afterwards (3-stories and only building to survive
reasonably intact other than the grain elevators on the north side of town).
They found a combine from the John Deere dealership located on the west
edge of town rolled up like a wad of aluminum foil almost 5 miles N of
town...and not a little guy, this was new 9700-series four-wheel drive
monster. All it was lacking was it didn't have the header on the front.
I'm guessing it weighed -- well, let's see, let's just look one up;
it's a larger machine than ours -- wow!!! JD say ~30,000 lb w/o header.
Hmmm....if I compute a wind force times an estimated projected area
-- yeah, I get >30k-lbf by a fair margin...man, I'm more impressed after
that exercise than I was when I saw the sucker out there...I didn't
think actual weight would be much over half that and the thought of that
was daunting enough.
--
On 3/30/2010 8:13 PM, GarageWoodworks wrote:
> Very sad. It doesn't get any worse than what happened in Greensburg.
They do tend to make a mess. Here are a few photos of the May 25, 2008
EF5 that hit Parkersburg, Iowa.
http://images.google.com/images?q=Parkersburg+Tornado
--
Morris Dovey
DeSoto Solar
DeSoto, Iowa USA
http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/
On 3/31/2010 1:04 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Lee Michaels" wrote
>
>> Look at these guys.
>>
>> http://www.aidomes.com/
> -----------------------------
>
> Buckminster Fuller geodetic dome time.
I'll believe they'll take an F4 when one gets hit by one. It's easy to
say "withstands tornadoes" when you've only got a few hundred installed
and none has taken a direct hit from a bad one.
On 3/31/10 12:04 AM, Lew Hodgett wrote:
> "Lee Michaels" wrote
>
>> Look at these guys.
>>
>> http://www.aidomes.com/
> -----------------------------
>
> Buckminster Fuller geodetic dome time.
>
> Lew
>
Having lived in Cleveland back in the day, you know those geodesic domes
are scattered all over NE Ohio.
--
-MIKE-
"Playing is not something I do at night, it's my function in life"
--Elvin Jones (1927-2004)
--
http://mikedrums.com
[email protected]
---remove "DOT" ^^^^ to reply
GarageWoodworks wrote:
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Scary stuff.
>
> Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tornado
Glad to hear it missed you. Sorry to see the damage it caused.
--
There is never a situation where having more rounds is a disadvantage
Rob Leatham
We had one cross a creek, rise up a hill and up and over some trees -
and our house for two streets - then down on school temp buildings
and rolled them.
Glad you were out of the way. They really change lives.
Martin
GarageWoodworks wrote:
> From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. A
> total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
> Scary stuff.
>
> Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:
> http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tornado
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 10:09:53 -0700 (PDT), the infamous GarageWoodworks
<[email protected]> scrawled the following:
>From the damage I estimate an F2-F3 tonado 2-3 miles from my home. A
>total of 8 touched down in High Point last night.
>
>Scary stuff.
>
>Pictures from a nearby neighborhood:
>http://www.garagewoodworks.com/hp_tornado
Yes, scary stuff. That 5th pic, with the huge rootball exposed from
the blown-over tree reminds me of Little Rock, AR when I was a kid. I
never saw a tornado, but the huge thunderstorms (gorgeous things, the
only thing I miss from there) would uproot the big trees lining the
streets there.
Congrats on the luck of dodging that tornado, Brian.
--
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for.
-- Earl Warren
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 22:04:06 -0700, "Lew Hodgett"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>
>"Lee Michaels" wrote
>
>> Look at these guys.
>>
>> http://www.aidomes.com/
>-----------------------------
>
>Buckminster Fuller geodetic dome time.
Actually the "Bucky Dome" which was at Southern Illinois University
has been moved. It is also in bad need of restoration, at present it
is covered over with plastic on a lot on south Forest street not far
from campus. (it is made of wood.)
Mark